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Description
Visit the https://archive.devcon.org/ to gain access to the entire library of Devcon talks with the ease of filtering, playlists, personalized suggestions, decentralized access on Swarm, IPFS and more.
https://archive.devcon.org/archive/watch/6/how-to-scale-a-blockchain-motivating-the-ethereum-rollup-centric-roadmap/
Scaling blockchains to support billions of users without compromising decentralization is one of the biggest remaining challenges in the crypto space. This talk will showcase why there is a fundamental scalability-dencentralization tradeoff for any monolithic chain, and how scalable rollups on top of decentralized settlement chains can overcome this tradeoff. What implications does this have for the future of Ethereum? Beginner friendly, with pictures!
Speaker(s): Ansgar Dietrichs
Skill level: Beginner
Track: Layer 1 Protocol
Keywords: base layer,research
Follow us: https://twitter.com/efdevcon, https://twitter.com/ethereum
Learn more about devcon: https://www.devcon.org/
Learn more about ethereum: https://ethereum.org/
Devcon is the Ethereum conference for developers, researchers, thinkers, and makers.
Devcon 6 was held in Bogotá, Colombia on Oct 11 - 14, 2022.
Devcon is organized and presented by the Ethereum Foundation, with the support of our sponsors. To find out more, please visit https://ethereum.foundation/
A
A
I'm
going
to
talk
a
bit
about
scaling,
but
I
want
to
start
first,
just
with
a
very
quick
apology
in
case
you
were
here
to
hear
about
multi-dimensional
resource
pricing.
I
had
a
bit
of
a
hard
time
to
make
up
my
mind,
which
of
the
two
talks
I
wanted
to
give
so
for
a
while
on
the
website.
Both
titles
were
on
there,
so,
if
you're
really
into
multimeter
resource
pricing,
which
you
should
be
I,
can
only
recommend.
A
I
gave
a
talk
earlier
this
year
about
it
in
the
ethereum
context,
which
is
quite
interesting,
I,
think
and
then
also
with
eip4844.
We
are
about
to
introduce
a
there's,
an
open
PR
to
to
update
the
fee,
Market
there
and
hopefully
fingers
crossed.
This
will
be
the
very
first
time
that
we
start
moving
to
multi-dimensional
Resource
pricing
in
practice
on
ethereum
like
in
this
case
two-dimensional,
so
do
have
a
look,
but
today
here
I'll
talk
about
scaling
and
specifically
Roll-Ups.
Why
Roll-Ups?
A
First
one
I
want
to
talk
more
more
in
on
the
theoretical
side.
Why
really
is
a
roll
up
so
fundamental
to
scaling
and
then
bring
it
back
and
and
talk
about
ethereum's
future
place
in
that
world?
Basically,
so,
first,
why?
Why
roll
ups
and
and
I
want
to
start
by
with
something
that
I
call
execution
chains?
It's
basically
just
blockchains,
as
you
know
them
so.
A
Bitcoin,
of
course,
was
the
very
first
ever
special
purpose,
execution
chain
special
purpose,
just
because
it's
only
for
payments
and
and
money
ethereum,
the
very
first,
a
general
purpose,
execution
chain
in
general,
all
these
chains.
Of
course
they
want
to
have
maximum
functionality
maximum
throughput,
but
that
that's
attention
with
needing
to
guarantee
security
and
decentralization
and
to
illustrate
that
kind
of
the
tension.
A
I
created
this
little
final
graph.
So
basically
on
the
on
the
x-axis,
you
have
the
cost
to
run
a
full
node
and
on
the
y-axis
you
have
the
the
throughput
that
your
network
can
have
and
with
the
Bitcoin
and
ethereum.
Basically,
you
are
in
this
nice
Zone,
where
they're
down
there,
where
basically
everyone
wants
to,
can
run
their
own
chain
locally.
I,
don't
run
my
own
Bitcoin
chain
right,
okay,
okay,
so
it
is
Bitcoin,
but
I.
A
Could
it's
just
a
trust
trade-off
that
I'm
I
choose
to
make,
but
that
does
mean
that
these
chains
are
fundamentally
Limited
in
throughput
right
by
by
basically
the
minimum
consumer
Hardware
capabilities
and
and
kind
of
the
key
Insight.
You
release
that,
like
everyone
validating
everyone's
transaction
doesn't
scale,
but
of
course
we
we
don't
want
to
give
up.
You
know
security
by
by
kind
of
moving
beyond
this.
A
So
like
the
very
first
thing
you
could
do
and
I
I
picked
Solana,
just
as
an
example-
and
this
is
not
meant
as
a
slide
at
all-
actually
I
think
in
a
second
you'll
kind
of
see
how
in
a
way,
they're
kind
of
moving
in
an
interesting
Direction
here,
but
but
basically,
what
they're
doing
what
their
version
of
scaling
is
just
to
basically
go
further
up
this
diagonal,
and
that
does
give
you
a
higher
throughput.
But
of
course
it
means
that
now
running
a
full
node
is
it
becomes
really
expensive.
A
So
that's
one
way
of
just
increasing
a
throughput.
The
problem
is
what,
if
you
don't
run
your
own
full
node
and
there's
some
sort
of
disagreement
right.
Some
some
malicious
attack,
some
some
chain
Fork.
You
only
have
two
choices:
either
you
go
with
a
majority,
in
which
case
51
of
the
network
can
always
rewrite
all
the
rules.
Take
away
your
money,
everything
right,
all
the
other.
A
The
other
thing
you
can,
of
course
do
is
how
Halt
and
recover,
via
the
social
layer,
but
that's
very
slow,
of
course,
so
whether
we
want
to
end
up
on
that
graph,
that's
basically
this.
What
I
call
the
Unicorn
Zone
up
there,
where
everyone
could?
You
know
trustlessly
validate
the
network,
but
we
still
have
like
really
high
throughput,
so
how?
How
can
we
basically
find
a
way
to
to
to
get
there
and
and
that's
basically
where
roll
ups
come
in
and
why
do
Roll-Ups
come
in
there
to
explain
that?
A
As
you
might
be
aware,
you
probably
are
aware
there
are
like
two
different
flavors
of
Roll-Ups,
optimistic
and
ZK
Roll-Ups.
The
easier
to
explain
in
this
context
is
optimistic,
rollups,
so
to
talk
basically
to
to
kind
of
get
any
tuition
for,
for
how
optimistic
will
have
solve
this.
This
kind
of
this
dilemma
here
and
we
can
look
look
again
at
the
at
the
Savannah
case
and
as
I
was
talking
about
right.
A
If,
if
there's
a
disagreement,
and
even
if
you
don't
run
your
own
full
node,
you
always
have
the
of
the
option
to
just
Halt
and
recover
by
the
social
layer
and
the
optimistic
roll-up
kind
of
idea.
Here
is
what,
if
we
could
just
massively
speed
that
up
right
instead
of
running
that
kind
of
this,
this
fallback
mechanism
on
human
brains,
where,
whenever
something
goes
wrong,
you
have
to
actually
go
on
Twitter
and
whatnot.
A
What
if
we
basically
just
automate
that
right
like
we
replace
the
human
brain
with
with
software
and
in
particular,
with
fraud,
proofs
and
and
and
that's
how
you,
how
you
get
optimistic
growth,
so
kind
of
trying
to
keep
with
my
little
picture
some
symbolism
so
so
their
optimistic
rollups
are
also
basically
a
form
of
an
execution
chain.
They
are
their
own
blockchains.
A
Basically,
the
way
they
work
is
that
they
apply
the
changes
optimistically
and
anyone
can
submit
a
fraud
proof
so
so
the
only
basically
the
only
guarantee
you
need
is
that
there's
someone
in
the
system
that
notices
if
something
goes
wrong,
but
one
of
and
honesty
assumption
is
a
way
way
way.
Less
severe
restriction
than
a
majority,
honesty
assumption,
and
then
these
photos
they
are
automatically
resolved
on
some
sort
of
settlement
platform.
A
Yeah
that
you
need
and
then
the
alternative
as
I
was
saying,
ZK
Roll-Ups,
they
are
just
cryptographic
magic
right.
So
in
that
case
you
don't
have
to
to
do
this
retractive
fixing
of
problems
instead,
you
just
have
any
state
update,
come
with
a
cryptographic
proof
that
no
one
did
anything
wrong
and
again,
you
need
some
sort
of
settlement
platform
where
you
can,
where
you
can
resolve
this
one
more.
A
But
one
additional
thing
thing
to
to
ensure
is
that
we
have
to
also
pay
attention
to
data.
If
you
run
your
own
full
node
for
a
chain,
data
is
implied
right
because
you
actually
download
all
the
data
and
execute
it
locally,
but
with
follow-ups
you
don't
do
that
anymore.
So
now
we
basically
need
explicit
data
availability
mechanisms
and-
and
that's
what
I
put
this
little
kind
of
database
symbol
there,
yeah
and
and
with
that.
A
Basically,
once
you
have,
you
have
like
an
explicit
settlement
system
and
you
have
an
explicit
data
availability
system
now.
Basically,
you
you
can
break
out
of
this
of
this
kind
of
graph
of
of
of
this
full
node
versus
throughput,
basically
trade-off,
and-
and
how
can
you
actually
use
this
now
to
kind
of
to
build
full
blockchain
systems,
that's
kind
of
what
the
what
the
second
part
is
about.
A
Like
how
how
do
you
actually
turn
this
into
into
something
useful,
and
this
is
going
to
be
very
picture
heavy
because
I
kind
of
I
don't
know
for
me,
it's
mostly
about
giving
good
intuitions
here
for,
like
I,
don't
know
my
mental
models
around
this.
Basically,
that
was
that
was
my
motivation
for
the
talk.
A
So
again,
this
is
like
an
execution
chain.
I
drew
a
little
box
around
it,
it's
basically
in
its
own
box,
there
it
has
its
own
security
and
that's
that's
the
world
as
it
used
to
be
the
blockchain
world.
We
had
a
lot
of
these
boxes
like
a
couple
years
ago
right
and
now
we're
adding
these
exciting
new
tools
to
the
picture.
We
are
we're
adding
settlement
and
we're
adding
data
availability,
and
how
do
they
basically
change
the
picture?
A
A
But
for
us
the
the
way
ethereum
kind
of
likes
to
approach
these
things
is
by
combining
them
into
into
a
settlement
chain.
So
now
so
now
we
have
these
these
two
separate
chains.
How
do
we
basically
now
actually
make
use
of
them?
Well,
the
way
to
do
this
is
by
and
that's
what
the
arrows
are
for
by
basically
having
turning
the
execution
chain
into
a
roll
up.
It
kind
of
functions
as
it
did
before,
but
now
it
uses
this
the
settlement
chain
for
for
for
data
availability
and
for
settlements.
A
So
you
need
some
sort
of
fraud-proving
mechanism
or
it
needs
some
validity
proofs
attached,
but
other
than
that
it
still
feels
like
a
normal
blockchain.
Basically,
the
simplest
way
to
do
this
is
what
what
we
call
like
an
in
try
and
roll
up.
So,
in
that
case,
you'd
have
like
one
settlement
chain
and
one
roll
up
on
top,
and
it's
basically
like
a
one
one
to
one
and
really
relationship
and
in
a
very
simple
way.
You
could
imagine.
A
They
are,
that
would
all
know,
have
their
own
settlement
chain.
The
the
downside
there
is
that
for
one
you
have
fractured
security
right.
Each
each
settlement
chain
has
its
own
valid
data
set
or
its
own
miners
or
its
own.
However,
you
you
get
your
security
as
your
as
your
chain
and
it
basically
some
some
of
those
will
be
higher
security.
Some
will
be
lower
security
and
that
also
affects
Bridges
I'm.
Maybe
some
of
you
have
seen
kind
of
metallics
right
up
a
while
ago
about
how?
A
Basically,
if
you
bridge
multiple
chains,
you
always
end
up
with
the
the
weaker
secure,
the
weakest
security
of
all
of
them.
Right,
if
you,
basically,
if
you
want
to
use
assets
of
like
10
different
chains,
if
the
security
of
one
of
those
breaks
like
that
specific
asset,
just
basically
is,
is
broken
for
you
right
and
if
you
have
some
sort
of
defense
system
where
all
of
this
is
interconnected.
Basically
everything
Can,
Crash
and
Burn.
A
You
really
don't
want
this
minimum,
the
worst
of
all
security,
kind
of
situations
and
also
I,
guess
that's
less
of
a
severe
thing,
but
also
in
this
picture,
you're
kind
of
duplicating
a
lot
of
complexity
for
each
chain.
So
what
would
be
an
alternative
Vision?
How
do
we
think
the
future
might
look
like
that's
what
we,
what
we
call
like
a
shared
a
settlement
chain?
So
in
this
case
you
have
one
big
settlement
chain
and
you
can
have
multiple
Roll-Ups
on
top
of
course,
probably
realistically,
the
future
will
look.
A
A
Well,
two
main
points
really
one
is
the
shared
security
I
like
to
think
about
it.
Like
shared
pools,
security,
it's
not
quite
free
security.
Sometimes
you
hear
people
talk
about
how,
if
you,
if
you
turn
your
chain
into
a
roll
up,
you
just
get
the
the
security
of
the
base
chain
for
free
and
that's
not
quite
right,
I!
Think
because,
actually,
if
say,
you
have
10
Roll-Ups
on
top
of
a
settlement
chain,
then
they
basically
all
put
additional
strain
on
top
of
that
settlement
chain.
A
Right
like
now,
the
incentive
to
attack
the
settlement
chain
is
10x
as
high.
So
you
you
don't
just
get
like
security.
Doesn't
just
you
know,
isn't
just
created
for
free,
but
it
is
pooled
right.
So
so
now,
basically
you
have
to
break
the
entire
combined
system
instead
of
just
being
able
to
take
the
weakest
link
and
what
that
also
gives.
You
is
then,
because
you
have
like
one
shared
trust,
trust
Zone.
Basically
that
all
the
bridges
between
those
roll
ups,
if
implemented
perfectly
you
know
in
front
caveat
it
can
can
be.
A
You
can
be
fully
secure,
okay,
so
with
that
kind
of
bringing
it
back
to
ethereum,
of
course,
I
guess
the
last
slide
they're
heavily
hinted
to
where
we
want
to
end
up
with
at,
but
where,
where
were
we
in
the
past?
Where
are
we
today
and
how?
How
could
we
get
to
this
shared
settlement,
layer,
future
so
kind
of
starting
with
ethereum
a
few
years
ago,
in
the
early
days,
basically,
ethereum
also
was
a
pure
execution
chain.
A
We
had
approved
work
security
robs
weren't,
yet
a
thing
that
was
kind
of
a
happy
place
to
be
in
for
for
a
couple
years,
at
some
point,
of
course,
like
ethereum
always
wanted
to
figure
out
like
how
do
we
actually
scale
to
billions
of
users?
It
took
quite
a
while
quite
a
few
years
of
iterations
in
in
iterations,
just
because
I,
like
kind
of
research,
archeology
and
I,
would
encourage
you
if
you
ever
have
some
free
time
and
nothing
else
to
do.
Go.
A
Look
at
all
research
posts-
it's
always
fun
so
to
basically
just
illustrate
that
a
little
bit
I've
like
picked
like
three
that
kind
of
accompanied
our
way
kind
of
towards
this.
This
rural
Vision,
the
first
one
is:
if
you
look
April
2019,
it's
it's
really
quite
amazing,
kcd
Trio
phase
one
and
done
is
two
as
a
data
availability
engine
nowadays,
I
think
these.
This
technology,
like
everyone,
would
just
nod
and
be
like
yeah
sure,
thanks
shouting,
but
three
and
a
half
years
ago,
I
think
that
was
quite
visionary.
A
Then,
a
year
later,
a
year
and
a
half
later,
we
had
vitalik
for
the
first
time
confusing
this
term
roll-up
Centric
roadmap,
where
basically
we
we
finally
realized
that,
yes,
there
is
no
other
way
to
scale
like
you
really
need
this
decoupling
of
the
execution
of
the
settlement.
Otherwise,
like
you
you
basically
as
I
was
saying
earlier
right,
you
can't
break
out
of
this
dilemma.
A
A
His
two
plans-
and
it
actually
turns
out
that
basically
this,
if
you
remember
the
early
chatting
plans
if
I
just
go
back
a
couple
slides
if
this
works
actually
what
we,
what
we
were
planning
back
back
in
the
day
with
all
these
different
charts,
was
kind
of
this
picture
all
along
right.
It
was
just
that
we
wanted
to
have
all
these
charts
be
like
super
enshrined
and
and
at
some
point
and
try
and
roll
ups
basically,
and
then
someone.
A
We
realized
it's
just
much
better
if
we
open
this
up
for
for
General
Innovation,
if
we,
if
we
don't
build
or
basically,
if
we're
the
only
parties,
building,
Roll-Ups
and
so
yeah
this
this,
basically
just
you
know
it's
a
little
history
kind
of
tidbit.
So
so
this
is
kind
of
how
we,
how
we
got
to
where
we
wanted
to
move
move,
move
forward
with
ethereum,
so
that
kind
of
brings
us
to
to
the
kind
of
the
pre-merge
state
where
we
already
started
to
use
the
ethereum
chain
as
a
as
a
settlement
chain
as
well.
A
But
of
course
it
still
has
execution.
So
it's
like
kind
of
like
a
hybrid
chain.
It's
still
proof
of
work
security,
of
course,
before
the
merge
and
as
I
was
saying
right.
Settlement
chains
need
the
settlement
aspect,
which
you
kind
of
get
for
free
when
you
have
a
general
purpose
chain,
but
then
you
also
need
data
availability
and
data
availability
on
the
existing
ethereum
chain
is
really
quite
expensive.
A
It
was
never
meant
to
provide
data
availability
so
what
it's
kind
of
basically
right,
now
kind
of
hacked
in
you
just
basically
just
dump
data
into
into
ethereum
transactions
and
then
never
actually
use
them
which
works,
but
but
it's
just
very,
very
expensive
as
a
source
of
data
availability.
Of
course,
we
started
having
rollups
on
top
really
exciting.
If
you
ask
me
I
think
Roll-Ups
have
been
making
a
lot
of
progress
over
the
last
two
years
and
then
you
know
pre-merge.
A
We
had
this
this
Beacon
chain
just
an
empty
little
box,
nothing
in
it
and
but
much
stronger
proof
of
proof,
stake
security
right
and
then,
of
course,
as
of
today,
we
ended
up.
You
know
merging,
and
now
we
have
have
this
basically
same
same
situations
before,
but
but
much
higher
security
and
just
as
a
maybe
quicker
side,
I
I
think
I
have
the
time
for
that.
Why
does
proof
of
stake
actually
give
higher
security?
A
I
always
I
mean
it's
not
really
kind
of
part
of
my
talk,
but
just
because
I
always
see
a
little
bit
of
confusion
about
that
debate
on
Twitter
and
I.
Think
it's,
it's
really
quite
quite
simple.
Actually,
like
the
the
way
I
would
think
about
like
moving
from
working
to
proof
of
stake
in
terms
of
security,
one
it's
just
more
efficient
right,
and
that
is
because
you
don't
you
basically
with
mining,
you
actually
have
to
pay
for
the
entire
cost
of
the
operation.
A
You
have
to
reimburse
minus
for
both
the
mining
hardware
and
the
energy
right
like
they
have
to
make
all
of
that
up
with
the
income,
whereas
in
proof
of
stake
you
only
have
to
make
up
the
lost
interest
on
your
money.
So
basically
you
can
get
away
with
with
paying
way.
If
your
rewards
for
this
for
the
same
security
in
in
improve
stake
and
and
then
the
other
one,
it
is
also
that
proof
stake
security
is
just
fundamentally
more
effective.
A
Maybe
this
one
esoteric,
maybe
but
another
interesting
mechanism
in
terms
of
security
that
I
really
like.
Is
this
ultrasound
money,
one
where?
Basically,
the
idea
is
when
you
have
an
normal
mining
rewards?
That
means
that
we
have,
as
the
asset
has
this
much
improved
monetary
properties,
which
in
long
run
might
you
know,
might
or
might
not
turn
into
a
higher
expected
monetary
premium,
higher
total
eth
market
cap
and
we
can
just
buy
more
Security
in
absolute
terms.
A
But
again,
you
know
this
is
esoteric
totally
fine,
if
you
don't
buy
into
this
that
the
first
bullet
point
is
the
more
important
one
here:
okay,
so
this
is
ethereum
today.
Where
do
we
want
to
go?
How
do
we
actually
get
to
this
full?
You
know
settlement
chain.
How
do
we
get
full
data
availability?
All
of
that
kind
of
thing,
so
first
thing
is
next
year.
Hopefully
a
fingers
crossed
looking
good
I
have
to
say
prototype,
starting
erp4844
that
we've
been
really
actively
working
on
just
earlier
today.
A
There
was
there
was
a
session
on
this,
where
basically,
we
I
don't
know.
If
you
saw
that,
but
like
the
data
pick,
the
data
symbol
there
just
become
became
way
bigger
because
you
just
you
know
you,
you
add
better
data
availability
to
the
ethereum
chain.
For
the
first
time,
data
availability
is
an
explicit
service.
We
provide
it's
not
just
something
tucked
on,
but
it's
an
explicit
service,
and
so
it's
just
more
effective
and
then,
of
course,
you've.
You've,
probably
all
heard
about
that
tongue
sharding
soon
TM
afterwards.
A
This
is
really
the
end
game
that
that
we,
as
ethereum
basically
are,
are
aiming
for
and
basically
kind
of
with
those
pictures
in
mind,
I
kind
of
wanted
to
then
for
the,
for
the
last
part
talk
a
little
bit
about.
Where
does
this
leave
us
like
this
I
I
hope
that
kind
of
gave
it
like
intuition
wise,
like
a
good
idea
of
where
we're
moving
and
why?
But
but
what
implications
does
that
have
so?
The
first
first
thing
I
wanted
to
briefly
talk
about
what
does
it
mean
for
the
existing?
A
Well,
it
one
we
used
to
call
it
it
one
chain
like
basically.
What
now
is
the
execution
chain
with
within
the
beacon
chain?
What's
the
future
of
that,
and
they
are
basically
multiple
different
potential
future
Visions
for
it
that
you
could
you
could
you
could
see
the
first?
One
would
be
that
you,
it
basically
stays
this
hybrid
execution
settlement
chain
or
the
roll-up
settle
on
top
of
it,
but
also
still
you
know
it
has
some
default
on
it.
Whatever
for
high
value
transaction,
it
can
still
be
used
as
an
execution
chain.
A
A
So
that
means
that
really
more
and
more
of
the
user
activity
migrates
layer,
twos
and
and
layer,
one
is
really
just
becoming
more
more
just
just
a
rollout
management
layer
and
then
the
third
one,
it's
more
like
a
fun
thought
experiment,
it's
not
really
kind
of
planned
or
anything,
but
just
wanted
to
kind
of
illustrate
how
this
modular
architecture
is
really
lends
itself
to
to
all
these.
These
different
different
ideas.
A
What
we
could
also
do
is
that
we
could,
it
basically
add
in
an
additional
separate
set
of
pure
settlement
chain
to
to
the
beacon
chain
and
turn
is
one
basically
into
a
well.
You
would
say
you
could
say
a
roll
up
right.
So
in
this
case,
if
you,
if
you
look
at
that
picture,
you
could
just
think
of
you
know
like
one
of
those
roll
ups
being
it
one.
So
that's
again,
I,
don't
I,
don't
think!
That's
likely
that
that
we'll
go
that
way.
A
A
Think
it's
just
good
enough
for
for
that,
and
but
it's
it's
not
not
yet
decided
like
it
could
be
that
you
know
I,
don't
know
Solana
or
something
has
the
Deep
dominant
winning
highly
scalable
VM
solution
it
could
could
be,
could
be
the
evm.
It
could
be
some
some
of
these
other
competing
new
ones.
This
is
yet
to
be
seen.
I
mean
we
are
very
optimistic
for
the
evm
in
in
in
that
scenario,
as
well
and
I.
A
Think
I
do
want
to
point
out
because
that
sometimes
misunderstood
the
the
reason
why
ethereum
only
has
the
limited
to
put
it
has
is
not
the
evm.
That's
not
the
limiting
factor.
It's
really
that
we
want
to
keep
the
resource
requirements
for
validators
low,
the
mom
the
moment
you
are
a
roll
up
and
you
adopt
the
evm.
A
So
I
think
there's
a
very
good
chance
that
the
evm
will
turn
out
to
be
to
be
like
the
winning
or
one
of
the
evening
and
height
throughput,
VMS,
yeah
and
and
but
but
of
course,
whether
like,
like
the
the
outcome
of
all
of
this
process,
will
have
like
big
implications
that
clients
will
clients
basically
say
the
existing
evm
clients.
Will
they
be
primarily
settlement
clients
only
or
will
they
also
be
used
for
Roll-Ups?
At
some
point,
maybe
they'll
want
to
focus
on
Roll-Ups.
A
Even
how
does
that
look
like
for
programming
languages
for
the
evm,
whatever
tooling,
all
these
kind
of
things
right
so
I
think
this
is.
This
is
going
to
be
like
one
of
the
the
main
interesting
kind
of
technological
debates
of
the
next
five
years
and
in
particular,
I
wanted
to
briefly,
very
briefly
talk
about
evm
equivalents,
because
that's
just
a
topic
that
I
I
personally
am
really
interested
in.
A
So
for
these
layer,
two
layer
Twos
for
these
Roll-Ups
that
choose
to
go
with
the
evm
and
the
question
is:
do
they
go
with
the
the
the
exact
evm
or
do
they
just
go
with
something
that
looks
kind
of
like
pvm
right
and,
if
you
remember,
say
optimism,
for
example,
they
started
out
with
what
they
call
the
Optimus
optimism,
virtual
machine
or
something
OBM,
which
was
basically
an
Adaptive
version
of
the
evm
and
now
they're
back
at
using.
Basically,
the
EVMS
is
so.
A
The
question
is,
in
the
long
run,
what
what
is
the
way
to
go?
Should
you
go
with
evm
equivalents
or
not,
and
so
just
briefly,
basically,
the
pros
that
I
see
would
be,
of
course,
standardization
right
like
if,
if
you
use
the
evm,
just
all
the
tooling
works
out
of
the
box,
you
have
multiple
existing
client
implementations
which,
again
for
security
having
multiple
clients
is
just
really
really
helpful,
but
also
really
hard
to
achieve.
So
this
is
like
a
big
win.
A
You
can
you
can
get
with
evm
equivalence
and
this
the
the
third
one
is
a
bit
more
speculative,
but
we
could
definitely
imagine
in
the
future
that
we
have
some
sort
of
specialized
settlement
functionality
around
evm
that
we
offer
for
Roll-Ups.
Of
course,
that
would
not
be
mandatory
right
if
you
want
to
run
your
own
like
fuel
or
Solana,
or
something
on
top
of
ethereum.
A
You
can
do
that
as
well,
but
we
would
have
special
special
support
for
for
these
evm
based
ones,
and
one
really
interesting
one
especially
I
think
in
the
last
few
months
people
have
more
noticed
how
governments
can
really
be
a
liability
and-
and
if
you
actually
follow
the
evm,
as
is
you,
can
just
defer
to
to
layer
one
governance
and
follow
their
changes
basically,
and
then
what
are
the?
What
are
the
cons?
Why
might
you
not
want
that?
A
2K,
so
I
think
there's
a
good
chance
that
we
might
end
up
in
that
world
and
and
I
think
that
that
might
actually,
you
know,
be
the
be
the
best
way
to
get
us
to
to
High,
scalability
and
yeah
and
I
think
I
hope
if
I
remember
correctly.
Oh
I
do
have
a
summary
slide.
So
let
me
briefly
go
through
that,
but
then
then
we're
done
so
you
know
traditional
blockchains.
You
always
have
the
trade-off
between
security
and
scalability
Rob
solve
this
ethereum's
Vision.
A
We
want
to
become
the
primary
settlement
chain,
we're
still
at
the
very
beginning
of
this
transformation.
Ethereum
well
likely
this.
This
is
the
last
point.
I
I
had
the
likely
because
who
knows
right,
but
we
we
do
still
with
the
evm,
also
have
Ambitions
for
for
execution
chains.
We
do
not
just
want
to
be
to
be
a
settlement
chain
yeah
and
with
that
thanks.