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Description
Visit the https://archive.devcon.org/ to gain access to the entire library of Devcon talks with the ease of filtering, playlists, personalized suggestions, decentralized access on Swarm, IPFS and more.
https://archive.devcon.org/archive/watch/6/ethereum-for-the-next-billion-defi-for-the-unbankedunderbanked/
The term 'public good', which has been adopted by many in the Ethereum community, should apply to the whole public, including those without access to traditional systems. This panel is about how blockchains actually make it to the un/under-banked -- the pragmatic considerations, and the inspirational possibilities.
Panelists include Abhishek Bhattacharya, Benson Njuguna, Gabriela Guerra, and Marcus Alburez Myers with Karam Alhamad as moderator.
Speaker(s): Ethereum Foundation Fellows, Benson Njuguna, Abhishek Bhattacharya, Marcus AM, Gabriela Guerra
Track: Opportunity & Global Impact
Keywords: Global Impact,EFFellows,NextBillion
Follow us: https://twitter.com/efdevcon, https://twitter.com/ethereum
Learn more about devcon: https://www.devcon.org/
Learn more about ethereum: https://ethereum.org/
Devcon is the Ethereum conference for developers, researchers, thinkers, and makers.
Devcon 6 was held in Bogotá, Colombia on Oct 11 - 14, 2022.
Devcon is organized and presented by the Ethereum Foundation, with the support of our sponsors. To find out more, please visit https://ethereum.foundation/
A
A
Well,
good
morning,
everyone
thank
you
for
for
being
here.
I
know
mornings
after
Ravi
can
be
a
bit
of
a
struggle,
so
appreciate
you
all
all
being
here.
So
I'll
do
a
bit
of
an
introduction
to
myself
and
the
ethereum
foundation
next
billion
program
and
then
I'll
pass
it
on
to
the
brilliant
panelists
we
have
up
on
stage.
So
my
name
is
my
name
is
Marcus
I'm,
a
fellow
at
the
ethereum
foundation,
where
I
am
currently
researching
the
implementations
of
Last
Mile
defy
focusing
primarily
in
Latin,
America
and
essentially
asking
ourselves.
B
I'm
Abhishek
bhattacharya
I'm,
one
of
the
co-founders
at
a
project
called
world.
What
we
do
is
we
are
a
C5
to
D5
Bridge.
We
are,
we
started
three
years
back.
Helping
Farmers
enabling
Farmers
take
loan
against
their
crops
that
they
can
store
right
after
harvesting.
Farmers
receive
very
less
price
for
the
crops
that
for
the
for
per
kilogram
price
for
the
crops
that
they
grow,
we
enable
them.
B
We
encourage
them
to
store
it
in
a
warehouse
in
a
government
or
a
private
warehouse
and
sell
it
off
after
three
or
four
months
when
the
prices
are
40
or
even
sometimes
100
to
100
percent.
Better.
We
use
blockchain
to
do
that.
To
bring
banks
on
the
table,
we'll
be
discussing
about
that
as
well,
that
how
we
brought
Banks
onto
blockchain-
and
that
is
what
we've
been
doing
now.
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
So
I'm
Gabriela
I'm
from
Mexico
I,
am
working
on
blowings
blo
INX.
That's
an
application,
decentralized
application
that
manages
saving
circles.
You
might
know
them
as
standards,
Couture's,
cheat
funds
or
many
ways
around
the
world.
That's
a
way
of
people
to
actually
let's
say,
get
an
interest-free
loan
if
you're
one
of
the
first
from
your
friends
or
your
family
members
and
if
you're,
the
last
you're
actually
contributing
for
them
to
get
this.
These
loan,
why?
This
is
important
for
us
in
Mexico
and
Latin,
America,
Asia
and
Africa.
C
It's
not
easy
for
us
to
get
a
loan,
and
if
we
get
one
it's
super
normal
to
have
50
interest
rate,
100
percent
and
people.
Don't
read
the
small
letters,
so
we
get
into
very
big
depth.
So
this
is
why
it's
important
to
give
them
options
to
actually
have
this.
Let's
say
social
credit
options.
So
that's
what
we're
doing.
D
It
has
been
around
three
percent
of
the
smallholders
taking
up
insurance
and
we
feel
it's
important
for
them
to
take
up
insurance
and
many
other
traders
who
are
earning
an
income,
because
we
were
able
to
protect
them
because
lack
of
insurance
has
left
most
of
the
the
farmers
exposed
to
hunger
because
after
a
climate
effect,
then
no
food,
then
it
means
they
can't
sell
because
it
also
the
food
has
been
affected,
meaning
no
income
and
a
whole
cycle
of
unfavorable
things.
So
with
that,
we
are
doing
this.
D
A
Awesome,
thank
you
so
yeah,
an
incredible
group
of
people
here
doing
amazing
work,
really
just
changing
people's
lives
in
a
very
real
sense.
Using
you
know
this
technology,
so
I
mean
I
just
before
maybe
to
set
a
little
bit
of
context,
we
could
just
go
around
and,
and
just
perhaps
lay
the
scene
of
you
know.
We've
got
India
Latin,
America
and
Africa
up
out
here
on
stage
across
each
of
your
respective
regions.
What
have
you,
what
is
it
about?
A
The
traditional
systems
and
our
current
incumbent
systems
that
are
set
in
place
that
are
currently
falling
short
for,
whether
it's
for
Farmers
or
for
local
communities
and
saving
circles?
Where
are
traditional
and
Company
institutions
falling
short
and
on
the
other
side
of
the
equation
there?
What
is
it
unique?
What
is
unique
about
defy
that
enables
your
proposition
to
be
unlocked
through
leveraging?
You
know
distributed
ledgers
Etc,
so
maybe
I'll
be
sure.
Kick
it
off
to
you.
B
Sure,
currently,
in
India
everywhere
else,
also
as
we
are
expanding
globally,
we've
seen
many
other
countries,
the
the
systems
that
are
in
place,
for
example,
talking
about
the
loans
that
we
give
to
Farmers.
These
are
centralized
Finance
Loans
given
by
Banks
since
ages.
It's
not
something
we
brought
on,
but
there's
a
lot
of
fraud
in
that,
and
that's
of
course,
fraud
is
the
biggest
thing
that
blockchain
solves
anyway.
That's
where
blockchain
finds
most
use
case
in
fintech.
B
So
as
a
fintech
organization,
we
saw
that
the
government
systems
the
the
banking
systems,
the
entire
platform
that
is
available
to
the
farmers
and
to
the
banks
is
not
is
not
sufficient
and
blockchain
could
help.
Banks
are
pulling
out
of
this
entire
ecosystem,
leaving
Farmers
into
the
hands
of
usurious
money
lenders
with
outrageous
interest
rates.
So
that's
one
one.
You
know
drawback
that
systems
like
in
India
the
government
organizations
they
have-
and
you
talked
about
D5
D5-
is
a
very
new
thing.
C
So
situation
in
Mexico
right
right
now
with
the
ethereum
foundation,
where
I'm
going
to
focusing
on
women.
What's
the
situation
there,
so
we
have
legally
a
48
Hour
Work
week.
So
imagine
a
family,
a
single
mom
that
has
two
kids
has
to
work
48
hours
and
then
has
to
take
Transportation.
Then
she
has
no
time
we
don't
have
a
good
health
care,
System,
well,
a
child
to
a
day
care
system.
So
it's
difficult!
So
what
option
do
they
have
in
formality?
There
are
two
billion
people
around
the
world.
C
Talking
now
about
next
billion
we
have
2
billion
people
around
the
world
that
are
uninformally
employed.
Why?
Because
of
this,
because
they
sell
informally
because
they're
Farmers.
So
this
is
the
situation
they
live
day
to
day
they
either
bake,
cakes
or
creams,
do
massages
or
whatever
thing
they
might.
Think
of.
So
it's
difficult.
What
happens
when
they
need?
They
have
medical
emergency
with
their
kids.
They
need
cash
right.
They
try
to
get
it
from
a
centralized
financial
institution,
but
what
happens
is
that
they
require
a
proof
of
income
which
they
don't
have.
C
So
this
is
a
serious
issue.
They
have
this
option
of
getting
loans
from
informal
lenders,
but
it's
super
high
interest
rates
or
they
have
this
other
option.
What
why
these
options
already
exist?
These
options
have
been
there
for
100
years
in
many
countries.
What
you
do
there
is
you
put
in
your
social
credit
right.
So
why
blockchain?
Well,
it's
decentralized!
You
can
join
a
saving
Circle.
Yes,
you
have
the
same
risks
of
a
common
saving
Circle,
but
we
can
exploit
their
trust
ability.
C
We
know
exactly
what
was
the
posited
and
when
it
was
deposited
and
then
to
who
it
what
it
was
paid
to.
So
that's
super
important
in
our
case
where
we
have
a
lot
of
corruption
and
people
doing
none,
let's
say
legal
or
correct
ethical
things.
So
this
is
important
for
us
and
also
we
can
leverage
a
reputation
system
that
can
eventually
serve
as
a
foundation
for
for
them
to
actually
get
a
loan
from
our
financial
institution
for
a
bigger
amount.
So
this
is
why
blockchain
is
there?
C
D
Well,
I'll
I'll
cue,
what
Gabriela
said
so
in
defy
in
our
context
in
Africa
kissing
point
in
Kenya
we
have
mobile
money,
as
is
a
digital
technology.
It's,
for
example,
in
Kenya.
It
has
over
98
adoption,
meaning
almost
every
adult
citizen
has
a
wallet,
a
mobile
money
wallet,
but
we
still
find
challenges,
challenges
in
how
how
much
they
paying
how
much
they're
paying
for
the
loans.
So
we
have
very
high
interest
on
the
loans.
In
fact
they
are
regarded
as
predatorial.
In
fact,
even
the
central
bank
has
been
tracking
down.
D
So
this
access
to
finance
has
been
a
challenge
because
of
high
interest
rates
and
when
it
comes
now
to
defy
to
protect,
for
example,
income.
So
a
farmer
has
income
how
what
why
are
they
are
we
saying
if
I
can
help
solve
the
problem?
So
for
us
it
was
the
transparency
in
the
traditional
Insurance
business.
So
an
agent
will
go
to
the
field,
convince
a
farmer
to
buy
insurance,
but
then
keep
quiet
for
a
whole
six
months.
D
The
season
would
take
around
six
months
next
time
they
see
the
agent
will
be
next
time,
they're
selling.
So
no
information.
No!
No
didn't
know
what
policy
where
the
two
quote
was
happening
about
it
now,
with
blockchain
we're
able
to
enable
the
farmer
using
feature
phones,
the
penetrations
of
feature
phones
is
high
to
dial
a
style,
a
number
and
able
to
see
so
far
you.
D
Your
policy
has
triggered
this
percentage,
which
is
equivalent
to
this
amount
of
money
and
also
the
triggers
that
were
used
to
say,
determine
whether
they
qualify
for
a
claim
or
not
are
tamper
evident.
So
we
generate
hashes
put
them
on
chain,
so
you
can
to
prove
you
just
need
to
produce
the
hash
and
compare
it
with
the
data.
Since
we
don't
publish
the
Pharma
data
on
chain,
but
yeah.
That's
how
we
Define
and
blockchain
is
revolutionizing
financing.
A
That
already
exists
out
in
the
world
too
right
and
you're,
saying:
hey:
we've
got
mpesa
ussd
transactions
as
well,
and
we're
tying
in
you
know,
climate
data
and
so
I
just
appreciate
the
the
breadth
to
which
each
of
you
is
is
leveraging
this,
and
on
that
point
I
mean
perhaps
Abby.
You
could
paint
a
little
bit
of
that
picture
of
what
it's
been
like
working
with
kind
of
incumbent
institutions
in
your
jurisdiction
right.
A
So
you
mentioned
you're
speaking
with
banks,
you're
speaking
with
Regulators
in
the
space
as
well
you're,
very
much
so
working
with
real
world
assets,
which
is
just
a
fascinating
Concept
in
and
of
itself
too
so
I
wonder
if
you
could
set
a
little
bit
of
a
light
on
that
because
that's
been
a
really
sort
of
Hot
Topic
in
the
space
recently
how
we
integrate
real
world
assets
within
D5.
So
maybe
you
can
shed
some
light
on
that.
Yes,.
B
I
mean
I
understand,
because
the
entire
blockchain
ecosystem
has
always
been
wondering
that
how
do
banks
and
governments
fit
in
with
the
ecosystem,
how
to
bring
them
on
board?
I
have
met
so
many
people
here,
people
working
with
the
Colombian
government
I
work
with
Indian
government
he's
working
with
the
Kenyan
government,
so
definitely
now
Banks
and
governments
and
all
those
institutions
have
started
opening
up
to
you
know
to
to
adopting
blockchain
based
systems.
But
then
there
are
certain
boundaries
that
you
always
always
would
have
to
keep
in
mind.
B
One
very
important
thing
about
Banks
and
I
mean
especially
big
Banks
right
and
in
India.
There
are
a
handful
of
big
Banks
big
odds
and
is
that
their
sales
Cycles
are
too
long
because
it's
just
how
they
are
right
and
further
crossing
the
barrier
of
going
onto
a
blockchain
platform
internally.
They
have
that
bureaucracy
as
well.
That
is
a
tough
sell
already,
but
one
thing
we
have
constantly
seen
seen
in
our
use
case
is
that
not
a
single
bank
has
ever
said
that
no,
this
is
not
something
we
want.
B
Because
again,
this
is
not
a
domain.
This
is
called
Warehouse
receipt.
Finance,
you
store
a
crop,
you
take
a
loan
against
it,
it's
as
simple
as
that
it
has
been.
In
fact
it
has
been.
It
is
one
of
the
oldest
lending
products
known
to
mankind.
What
we
did
was
we,
we
just
made
it
better
right,
but
Banks
knew
it,
and
banks
have
been
facing
these
fraud
since
decades
so
and
they
tried
solving
it
with
Legacy
Technologies,
which
they
haven't
been
able
to.
So
they
were
open
to
at
least
open
to
adopting
blockchain
right.
B
They
knew
firsthand
so
yeah
there's
a
very
clear
distinction
here:
firsthand
they
knew.
We
are
only
talking
about
blockchain
technology
and
we
are
not
talking
about
cryptocurrency
blockchain
banks
on
blockchain
will
barely
ever
get
involved
with
cryptocurrency,
at
least
in
such
use
cases,
not
in
the
ones
where
we
are
talking
about
cbdc
or
or
cross-border
payments
Etc.
But
here
they
had
to
be
very
clear,
so
what
we
did
was
to
onboard
them.
B
We
created
a
permission
blockchain,
which
Quorum,
which
was
built
by
JPMorgan,
so
came
as
a
perfect
use
case
that
JP
Morgan
is
running
a
400
Bank
strong
Network
on
the
same
blockchain.
So
why
not?
We
use
it
use
the
same
thing
and
then,
when
the
banks
were
on
board,
we
also
talked
to
the
governments,
of
course,
as
much
as
possible
reaching
out.
There
are
state
governments
in
India,
and
then
they
saw
that
okay
there's
an
opportunity,
no
cryptocurrency
involved.
The
Indian
government
has
been
very
supportive
of
blockchain
I
mean
you
know
we
have
seen.
B
We
have
heard
the
Indian
honorable
Indian
Prime
Minister
srina
Modi.
We
have
seen
him
speak
about
blockchain
at
the
Singapore
fintech
Festival
last
year.
He
was
very,
very
you
know
praiseworthy
for
for
blockchain,
so
the
government
accepts
it
accepts
it
really
till
the
time
we
do
not
bring
cryptocurrency.
The
challenge
here
is
that
bringing
D5
onto
the
same
platform,
which
is
where
things
become
very
complicated,
which
is
something
we're
trying
to
navigate.
Even
at
this
moment,
we
are
trying
to
keep
them
separate.
Banks
won't
be
interacting
with
the
crypto
ecosystem.
B
The
crypto
D5
lenders
won't
be
interacting
with
these
C5
lenders,
but
the
farmer
should
be
benefited,
so
the
farmer
on
the
click
of
a
button
on
a
multilingual
app,
would
be
having
access
to
whether
to
take
this
moment.
This
crop
loan
against
that
particular
crop
in
D5
or
in
C5.
That's
what
we're
trying
to
abstract
it's
a
challenge.
B
It's
still
a
challenge,
I'm,
pretty
sure
that
Kenya
and
Latin
America
they
would
be
facing
the
same
problems,
because
it's
just
how
it
is
I
mean
you
know
it's
just
a
decade
of
blockchain
that
we've
seen
governments
are
not
ready
to
accept
it.
Just
at
the
first
go,
that's
that's
what
we've
seen
yeah.
D
Yeah,
it's
true,
for
example,
in
our
project
we
were
dealing
with
the
insurance
regulator,
so
you
have
to
prove
that
you're,
not
using
crypto.
So
you
don't
have
you
don't
need
to
mention
crypto
results.
We
start
with
the
efficiency,
so
we're
bringing
a
technology
that
will
do
exactly
what
has
been
happening,
but
now
we
can
pay
claims
immediately
at
the
end
of
the
season.
You
don't
have
to
work
for
six
months.
So
after
a
while,
the
Kenya
government
is
really
good.
D
The
regulator
has
what
we
call
a
Sandbox,
so
it
gives
any
crazy
idea
to
to
apply
and
say
we
want
to
try
out
this
and
this
and
this
so
part
of
this
sandbox
is
where
we
are
now
trying
to
see.
How
can
we
introduce
risk
crypto
based
risk
pools?
Where
now
we
can
pay
out
from
from
a
certain
risk
pool
that
has
been
funded
by
the
community
like
the
default
Community
Abby
is
talking
about,
so
the
regulator
has
been
yeah
start
with
the
technology
and
then
crypto
later.
A
Yeah
I
mean
we've,
obviously
seen
a
lot
of
regulatory
talk
and
that
you
know
sorry
we'll
sort
of
get
back
down
on
throughout
much
of
this
conversation.
But
it
is
a
really
important
consideration
right,
especially
if
we
want
to
reach
sort
of
critical
mass
if
we
want
to
do
Integrations
with
wider
Partners
as
well
thinking
about
how
we
do
that.
A
Definitely
we'll
we'll
take
a
lot
of
thought
and-
and
you
know,
having
even
sort
of
these
spaces
for
all
of
us
to
say
hey
these
are
the
benefits
of
defy
here
is
how
and
I
think
being
able
to
align
with
traditional
financial
institutions
and
governments
and
Regulators
saying
listen.
These
are
the
these
are
the
benefits
that
comes
to
I.
Think
oftentimes,
there's.
A
Obviously
this
very
oppositional
position
that
that
comes
up
when
we
speak
about
defy
in
emerging
markets
and
around
the
world
right
so,
and
we've
seen
the
likes
of
uniswap
with
the
DFI
education
fund
as
well,
really
push
for
more
education,
more
advocacy
at
the
regulatory
level,
which
is
obviously
hugely
hugely
important,
but
switching
over
you
know
gears
a
little
bit.
Gaudia
I
think
one
of
the
really
fascinating
things
and
Abby
was
touching
on.
A
This,
too,
was
the
idea
that
what
you're
offering
I'll
be,
for
example,
isn't
necessarily
new
right
and
and
being
able
to
Warehouse
financing
isn't
a
particularly
new
innovation.
The
problem
is
that
the
traditional
financial
institutions
haven't
quite
been
serving
Last
Mile
communities,
because
there
isn't
enough
value
for
them
to
engage
with,
as
they
do
these
things
so
gorilla
also
with
the
tandas.
C
C
If
you,
for
example,
someone
tells
you
hey
getting
to
crypto,
because
you
can
pull
your
funds
and
then
you
can
put
it
in
a
farm
and
then
you
get
the
yield
and
then
you're
a
farmer,
and
it's
like
Paul
right
till
this
to
a
mom
who
lives
day
by
day
and
has
very
few
to
actually
take
that
risk
right.
So
what
happens
there
is
that
this
is
a
way
to
get
them
with
a
known
thing
right.
They
also
say
big
circles.
They
already
have
been
in
many
of
these
many
times.
C
So
you
take
this
something
known
into
the
blockchain
and
then
you
get
them
hey.
You
can
use
your
wallet
you're
using
your
saving
Circle,
but
they
don't
know
they're
using
adapt
So.
Eventually
they
will
be
able
to
get
loans
to
stake
to
eventually
get
into
a
pool
and
do
whole
D5
things
right.
Then
they
can.
That
can
unlock
like
that
fear
of.
What's
this
right,
the
yield
and
it's
just
too
much
information
from
the
beginning.
C
So
these
tools
that
are
things
that
have
already
been
happening
many
years,
can
enable
this
to
go
to
an
audience
that
may
not
be
that
technologically
savvy,
but
has
a
need
for
these
Technologies
and
they
can
use
it
for
something
very
tangible,
just
like
like
we
saw
with
Ubi
right
for
pay
for
uniforms
for
school
or
for
a
medical
emergency
or
something
that
could
really
benefit
them
in
day
by
day
right.
So
that's
why
we
think
these
types
of
tools
known
could
be
good
for
these
next
billion
users.
We're
looking
at
yeah.
D
Casing
point
in
Kenya
as
well:
what
what
or
in
Africa
to
actually
have
a
farmer
operator
wallet
and
they
can
deposit
and
withdraw
its
yes
as
Gabriella
put
it
it
may
not
it's
quite
hard.
It's
not
it's
a
it's.
It
will
take
time
as
to
train,
but
we
see
an
additional
layer
of
we
see
a
layer
of
we
call
it
custodians.
So,
for
example,
we
have
a
payment
Gateway,
an
on-ramp
of
ramp
called
kotanipe.
We
have
bitlipper
in
Kenya
doing
a
good
job,
so
what
they
do
they
they
store.
D
The
keys
for
for
the
farmer
and
now
translate
each
wallet
into
a
ussd
based
wallet.
So
a
farmer
would
dial
style,
800
hash,
the
co
access
your
wallet,
oh
yeah,
withdraw
to
m-pesa,
because
the
m-pesa
is
their
mobile
money.
They
can
withdraw,
but
you
see
they
are
they.
They
are
used
to
the
ussd
they're
used
to
m-pesa
the
part
of
wallet
connection.
D
Somebody
else
is
doing
it
at
another
level
for
them
and
with
time
as
we
get
more
adoption
of
smartphones,
because
also
smartphone
is
an
issue
we
have
like
a
third
of
the
people
have
smartphones
or
2.
That
is
the
one
that
still
has
the
feature:
phones,
the
button
ones.
So
once
we
see
more
of
smartphones
coming
in,
then
we
feel
more
people
will
be
able
to
control
the
the
defy
Wallets
on
themselves
and
yeah,
and
also
we
other
strategies
that
we
are
introducing.
D
The
government
is
really
keen
on
Capital
flight
so
on
ramp,
you're,
changing
your
local
currency
to
a
usdc
for
example.
So
if
you
you,
we
start
with
projects
that
bring
in
money
into
the
country.
For
example,
there's
Diva
protocol
and
Fortune
connect.
We
tapping
donations
globally
and
reaching
and
pushing
through,
like
this
off-ramp
to
to
the
farmer.
So
the
farmer
is
able
to
access
ussd
and
withdraw,
for
example,
a
donation,
but
then
this
has
started
introducing
them
to
differ.
So
they'll
see
oh
with
time,
so
this
money
was
crypto.
D
A
A
The
fact
that
you
can
essentially
sort
of
execute
these
transactions
utilizing
ussd
and
integrate
that
with
m-pesa
just
speak
so
much
to
the
composability
of
these
different
sort
of
building
blocks
and
Legos,
but
I'd
love
to
and-
and
you
mentioned
as
well
like
mobile
phones,
right,
we've
seen
an
increase
in
in
traction
with
mobile
phone
use
as
well,
and
when
it
comes
to
crypto
we're
still
super
far
off.
You
know.
I
tried
editing
an
ens
record
today
on
my
cell
phone
on
my
metamask.
A
It
was
like
such
a
pain
and,
and
so
mobile
phone
sort
of
integration
with
wallets
and
generally
just
like
crypto
is
still
really
far
off
and
I.
Think
that
is
a
huge
huge
unlock
for
you
know
there
are
more
cell
phones
in
Colombia
than
there
are
people
right.
So
when
you
think
about
what
that
means
for
the
development
of
a
technology,
that's
really
powerful.
So
the
question
is,
you
know,
and
maybe
starting
with
you
Benson,
what
are
you?
What
do
you
feel
are
really
the
sort
of
at
the
use
end
user
experience
perspective.
A
What
are
the
big
unlocks
that
are
missing
for
D5
here?
You
know
I'm
sure
we've
got
a
room
here,
full
of
people
that
are
really
Keen
to
get
building
and
are
already
exploring
sort
of
problem,
spaces
and
solutions.
So
maybe
we
can
touch
a
little
bit
on
the
current
sort
of
end
user
challenges
and
what
you
believe
are
really
the
the
underlying
underlock.
So
maybe
we
can
work
work
our
way
backwards
here,
to
get
each
of
your
your
thoughts
on
on
those
aspects.
D
Thank
you.
Thank
you
Marcus.
So
the
biggest
two
challenges
that
we
see
is
capacity
building
for
them
to
understand
that
this
is
as
good
as
mpesa.
It's
just
crypto.
How
do
you
make
them
understand
that
it's
not
fraud,
because
then
that
comes
to
my
second
point.
We
need
to
deal
with
the
trust
if
we
deal
with
them,
knowing
how
to
work
with
it,
then
bringing
tools
introducing
slowly
building
on
the
blocks,
yeah
off-ramp
solution,
connect
to
m-pesa,
then
with
time
you
can
go
directly
to
the
off-ramp
so
directly.
D
They
can
now
directly
train
trade.
They
don't
have
to
really
withdraw
because
you'd
ask
a
farmer.
What's
your
incentive,
you
have
been
re.
You've
received
a
donation
in
usdc.
Why
are
you
withdrawing
it
to
m-pesa?
You
can
go
to
that
Merchant
and
whatever
you
wanted
to
buy
or
still
buy,
and
it
will
avoid
the
transactional
fees
that
are
in
between
here
so
dealing
with
with
trust,
dealing
with
knowledge
and
also
yeah
trying
to
reduce
as
much
as
possible
the
transaction
fees.
D
C
Right
so
smartphones
I
think
are
key
in
in
Mexico.
It's
the
same
thing:
people
have
phones,
they
access
Internet
through
their
phones,
but
have
no
computers
or
anything
right.
So
we
we
see
that
I.
Think
one
thing
that
I've
come
up
with
is
that
there
are
many
people
that,
with
this
fomo
or
with
our
situation,
desperation
I,
don't
know
how
to
call
it.
C
They
want
to
get
rich
right
away
right.
So
we
see
a
lot
of
people
that
actually
got
scammed
and
getting
one
person
that
got
scammed,
like
let's
say
at
the
beginning
in
their
Journey,
it's
super
hard
for
them
to
get
them
back
in
again.
So
we
see
that
happening.
We
see
them.
We
see
there
are
people
that
have
not
good
intentions
and
that
are
making
it
very
very
hard
for
people
like
all
of
these
people
here
that
are
trying
to
make
something
good.
C
So
that's
why
you're
you're
not
mentioning
crypto
at
all
right
so
yeah.
So
that's,
that's
some!
That's
a
real
challenge!
One
person
that
got
scammed
once
is
going
to
convince
50
people,
but
one
person
that
uses
it.
How
many
people,
you
think
is
going
to
actually
convert?
Let's
say,
let's
say
in
a
word
two
or
three
people,
so
that's
a
challenge
also
ux.
Fortunately,
many
tools
have
been
translated
to
Spanish
into
different
allowances
around
the
world,
but
we
still
need
that
Community
feeling,
because
in
Latin
America
we
are
like
very
close.
C
We
like
being
in
community,
doing
things
in
community,
so
Community
I
think
is
key.
So
we
have
a
lot
of
let's
say
people
building
these
communities.
Now
we
need
to
reach
that
next
billion
right.
So
we
need
to
reach
out
not
those
communities
to
keep
to
themselves.
But
how
can
we
make
that
scalable,
let's
say
not
just
convert
once
and
then
you
get
your
crypto
friends
and
then
you
have
your
50
crypto
friends
and
that's
it.
C
Having
applications,
we
now
see
more
and
more
Crypt
applications
mobile
first,
which
is
great
having
just
enough
information
in
the
screen
that
you
need
I,
think
that's
super
important
to
research
and
to
actually
not
just
research
with
crypto
people,
research
with
the
next
billion
right,
because
we're
used
to
having
your
balance
here
your
wallet
here.
But
what
do
new
users
actually
need
right?
So
that's
a
good
question.
I
believe.
B
Yeah
for
us,
it
has
been
a
very
interesting
case
study.
What
we
did
was
we
created
a
multilingual
app
it's
available
in
English,
first
Hindi,
then,
and
then
Marathi,
which
is
another
Regional
language
in
it.
So
what
happened
was
we?
We
thought
that
okay,
multilingual
app
is
going
to
be
very
good
when
we
launched
it,
we
were
we.
We
saw
that
okay,
the
adoption
is
definitely
not
not
much
so
what
happened
was
so
what
what
basically
happened?
B
We
redesigned
the
entire
system
two
years
back
again
right
after
launching
and
we
put
all
those
same
functionalities
which
is
available
to
the
farmer
from
their
phone.
We
put
that
on
the
the
custodians
end
because
they
we
have
given.
We
have
given
products
to
everyone
to
use
web-based
on
mobile
based,
so
so
that
the
farmer
can
just
walk
in,
which
is
the
easiest
thing
to
do,
and
just
request
the
the
custodian
that
please
help
me
take
a
loan
against
it.
B
Six
months,
eight
months
down
the
line
or
one
year
down
the
line.
Gradually
we
were
surprised
again.
We
saw
that
farmers
have
actually
started
liking,
the
app
I
don't
know
we
did
not
roll
out
any
major
upgrade.
We
did
not
add
any
more
languages,
it
was
there.
What
was
there
but
then
I
think
somewhere
the
custodians
started,
making
the
farmers
believe
that
it
is
a
very
simple
app
to
use.
Just
try
it
once.
Let
me
guide
you
use.
D
B
B
This
was
the
first
ever
such
application
that
they
were
seeing
in
their
lives,
and
now
they
have
become
very
confident
using
it
and,
as
you
said
that
you
know
one
person
how
many
people
would
they
say
would
they
you
know
speak
to
regarding
the
benefits
that
they've
received
in
our
case,
word
of
mouth
has
really
worked,
because
farmers
are
very
close
right.
It's
a
very
small
community.
They
have
been
there
in
that
area
since
generation.
B
B
I
have
never
seen
it
and
and
whenever
it
happened,
it
was
like
13
to
15
days
running
post
to
pillar
at
Banks,
and
then
then
you
know
getting
the
loan
and
whenever
you're
running
there
you
are
not,
basically
not
farming
and
you're,
not
earning
so
so
this
was
very,
very
revolutionary
for
them,
and
now
we
can
see
that
that
adoption
Gap
has
really
bridged
because
now
they're
comfortable
as
we
move
to
other
states.
So
India
has
a
lot
of
regional
languages
right.
B
Hundreds
of
thousands
I
think
so
we
would
be
just
onboarding
new
languages,
which
is
not
a
difficult
thing
for
our
developers
to
do
once
we
do
that.
We
have
cracked
that
okay
with
the
support
of
technology
and
with
on-ground
support
and
which
is
already
there
from
the
government.
We
don't
have
to
deploy
our
boots
on
the
ground,
so
I
think
I,
think
that
is
something
that
is
is
working
really
well
for
for
farmers
in
India
and
I.
Believe.
B
Another
thing
that
that
comes
to
my
mind
is
in
India
again
same
thing,
as
you
said:
more
more
phones
than
people
in
Colombia
India,
huge
population,
1.4
billion
people.
But
one
thing
is
that,
with
a
lot
of
changes
in
fintech
in
in
technology,
almost
every
other
person
is
having
a
phone
now
not
feature
phone,
a
smartphone
right.
There
are
very
cheap
phones.
If
I
talk
about
Indian
rupees,
it's
about
what
six
thousand
five
thousand
Indian
rupees,
maybe
maybe
seventy
dollars
eighty
dollars
so
people
are
buying.
B
People
are
buying
these
smartphones,
and
now
they
are
onboarded
onto
the
technology.
Every
single,
every
single
you
know
the
cart,
roadside,
cart
or
vendor
or
or
or
you
know,
the
auto
Wallace
right,
the
the
the
local
auto
holders.
Everyone
has
a
QR
code,
you
can
just
scan
it
and
pay
it.
It's
not
just
us
paying
via
QR
code
anymore.
It's
almost
everyone
paying.
My
keyword
has
started
paying
my
QR
code
that
helps
us
that
acts
as
a
Tailwind
for
us
because
they
already
have
been
using
the
phones.
We
just
say
that.
B
D
Yeah,
maybe
to
contribute
to
the
user
interface
to
onboard
more
Farmers.
So
it's
a
combination
of
the
user,
interface
and
user
experience
casing
point
in
one
of
the
example
in
selling
Insurance,
initially
selling
Insurance
the
agent
would
work
with
a
folder
with
forms
you
would
fill
in
the
form
of
feeling
feeling
Mass
signed,
Etc
so
bring
in
a
user
interface
that
that
is
almost
similar.
D
So
we
started
with
scratch
cards,
so
a
scratch
card
that
they
would
scratch,
reveal
a
certain
number
and
then
now
use
the
phone,
the
ussd
to
send
that
number
and
automatically
that's
how
they
were
on
boarded
into
insurance.
We
collect
now
information
in
that
way,
technologically
wise
using
triangulation
with
you,
leave
them
behind
with
a
card
and
they'll
say.
Oh,
this
is
my
insurance.
D
The
card,
but
actually
the
insurance
is
something
you
cannot
touch,
but
if
such
people
now
over
time
are
able
to
dialed
the
ussd
code
without
having
to
scratch
a
card
or
remain
in
something
since
they've
trusted
the
process,
so
that
Journey
has
to
start
somewhere
slowly
bring
them
in
and
build
that.
So
we
see
the
the
Need
For
You
user
experience
that
is
well
thought
out.
Yeah.
B
Just
to
add
to
that
I
mean
you're
solving
the
insurance
problem,
honestly,
so
I've
tried,
selling
Insurance
before
so
before.
Starting
this
organization,
I
was
with
with
a
company
called
policy
Bazaar,
which
sells,
which
is
an
Indian
unicorn
sells
Insurance
even
selling
Insurance
in
an
automated
way
to
Urban
people
to
educated
people
is
a
difficult
task,
so
with
Farmers
I'm,
pretty
sure
it's
a
daunting
task,
but
if
it's
getting
solved
and
I
think
the
farmers
are
really
getting
a
good
service.
C
C
A
So
I
was
I
met.
Some
we
held
a
side
event
the
other
day
and
I
mentioned
this
anecdote
earlier,
but
I
was
sitting
at
the
dinner
table
with
my
dad,
and
we
were
talking
about.
You
know
I
think
he's
yet
to
become
a
full
on
sort
of
crypto
convert
we're
working
on
it,
but
you
he
was.
We
were
sitting
at
the
dinner
table.
I
was
like
hey,
let's
both
sit
down
on
our
phones
and
try
and
get
a
let's
try
and
get
a
loan.
So
he
went
on
his
like
mobile
banking.
A
I
mean
you
can
pay
like
you
know
it's
bad
when
the
interest
rate
is
posted
daily
and
it's
like
two
percent
daily,
so
yeah.
This
is
the
reality
of
of
the
countries
that
you
know
we're
in,
and
this
is
what
D5
is
here
to
disrupt
and
promise
right
when
you
think
about
the
fact
that
you
can
take
out
a
loan
on
D5.
For
you
know
three
five
percent,
obviously
there's
a
lot
of
questions
here
around
the
collateral,
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
and
but
the
reality
is
it's.
A
You
know,
there's
there's
a
lot
to
be
said,
for
how
can
we
bring
down?
You
know,
interest
rates
that
are
hundreds
of
percentage
points.
Thousands
at
times
down
to
you
know
single
single
single
percentage
points.
So
just
we
will
do
just
like
one
last
question
and
this
will
be
just
a
bit
of
a
go
around
and
then
would
love
to
open
it
up
to
the
audience
for
for
a
bit
of
q,
a
in
the
last
10
minutes.
A
You
know
all
these
other
things,
so
if
maybe
we
can
just
spend
like
a
few
minutes
on
on
that
and
then
we'll
turn
it
over
to
the
audience
for
for
a
quick
q,
a
so
yeah
just
feel
free
to
take
it
away
on.
What
can
you
know?
What
can
the
ethereum
community
learn
from
deploying
Last
Mile
defy
Solutions
good.
D
Let
me
maybe
let
me
start
with
what
the
the
community
has
done
when
it
realizes
you're
doing
something.
So
for
us
when
we
said
okay,
we
need
to
solve
this
problem,
but
we
immediately
got
support
from
the
community.
The
ethereum
community
is
passionate.
This.
The
the
people
who
are
here
I,
believe
most
of
the
people
are
here,
are
passionate,
so
the
first
help
we
got
was
from
Isa
risk
is
a
they
were.
They
had
built
a
generic
Insurance
framework
and
they
said.
D
Okay,
you
can
build
your
application
on
top,
we'll
give
you
technical
support
and
we'll
give
you
time
and
we
will
always
spend
ensure
that
you're
able
to
run
it.
We
received
support
from
the
foundation
ethereum
Foundation.
They
helped
in
the
networking,
and
we
also
chain
link
heard
about
it,
because
we
are
using
weathering
data
to
determine
whether
to
pay
a
claim
or
not.
D
They
say
how
can
we
help
to
ensure
that
your
source
of
truth
is
actually
a
source
of
truth,
and
not
only
that,
moreover,
financially
they
got
a
lot
of
financial
support,
got
a
lot
of
human
people
spending
time
with
you,
people
experts,
who
are
very
busy
spending
time
with
you
to
help
you,
and
also
now,
with
that
I
think
we
can
say
the
the
community
and
what
people
should
do.
If
you
hear
of
a
good
project,
I
think
we
couldn't
have
been
here.
D
If
we
people
didn't
just
come
and
jump
in
and
helped
in
the
in
the
in
the
journey.
So
we
could
say:
let's
be
lights,
on
the
paths
of
starting
projects
and
you
will
see
great
great
impact
because
of
that
so
I
could
say
that's
a
on
the
support
the
community
has
helped
and
now
now,
what?
What
are
we
seeing?
The
Community
Learning
you
see
like
Lessons
Learned
for
us,
the
community
is
able
to
understand
you
can't
just
directly
bring
in
crypto,
and
you
expect
the
farmer
to
use
So
This
research,
lessons.
D
C
Well,
first
I
would
like
to
say
that,
well,
if
we
are
onboarding
people
from
our
countries
that,
let's
say,
as
I
said,
live
day
by
day,
we're
bringing
people
that
can
use
these
to
benefit
in
their
real
life,
and
we
can
bring
actually
these
examples
and
get
the
community
I
mean
in
give
it.
Let's
say
more
empathy
right,
because
sometimes
we
are
yeah
I
mean
we're.
Here
we
have
a
roof.
We
have
air
conditioning
and
we're
not
get.
C
If
it
rains,
there's
no
problem,
we
can
go
out
and
get
water
and
drinks
and
go
to
a
bathroom,
and
we
have
everything
right.
So
getting
these
people
into
the
the
space
could
be
very
interesting,
because
that
way
we
could
maybe
be
sensible
to
the
realities
of
others
and
how
can
they
benefit
so
I
think
empathy
is
an
interesting
part
and
also
we're
bringing
in
people
that
actually
need
financing
need
things.
C
B
Yeah,
so
talking
about
giving
back
to
the
ethereum
community
right
or
or
bringing
the
ethereum
community
on
board,
ethereum
has
reached
Millions
right
and
that's
what
the
purpose
of
the
next
objective
is
to
reach
the
next
billion
with
with
all
these
projects.
So
these
are.
These
are
few
handful
of
the
projects
in
Kenya
India,
Latin
America.
There
are
so
many
more
projects
that
are
already
on
ethereum
or
on
one
of
the
l2s
and
trying
to
trying
to
get
a
larger
share
of
the
ecosystem.
B
So
I
believe
that
that,
by
by
bringing
by
the
support,
first
of
all
with
the
foundation
with
the
community,
it's
a
huge
Community
right,
the
largest
of
all
the
chains
that
we
know
all
together.
I
think
I
think
we
are
at
such
a
right
spot
to
to
like
be
in
a
very
synergistic
relationship
where,
where
the
projects
need
communities,
no
project
Works
without
Community
name,
any
right
and
and
then
once
that
is
done,
more
and
more
projects
can
come
on
the
Chain
come
into
the
ecosystem,
help
each
other
reach
more
masses.
B
If
we
are
reaching,
maybe
a
small
holder,
marginal
farmers
in
India,
someone
else
could
be
reaching
blue-collar
workers
in
in
in
Australia
or
anywhere
else
right.
There
are
still
so
many
projects
and
things
that
can
that
can
still
come
on
the
on
the
chain
and
and
I.
Think
now
is
the
right
right
spot
right
time
to
do
that.
So
that's
what
we're
looking
forward
to
it.
A
E
D
Yeah
I
definitely
see
us
contributing
to
proof
of
humanity.
For
example,
what
represents
a
person
for
us
is
a
transaction
which
is
hushed.
So
if
the
details
of
the
person
has
the
same
way,
we
do
the
passwords
can
be
hushed
because
we
don't
do
that.
We
just
just
do
the
entire
thing.
Then
we
can
contribute
in
some
way,
because
that
hash
is
a
combination
of
the
location
of
their
names,
their
phone
number
registered
in
government
and
many
other
details.
So
we
feel
looking
at
how
what
we're
using?
D
B
Yeah
I
just
want
to
add
to
that.
Likewise,
we
also
do
not
put
the
direct
details.
It's
it's
not
right.
You
know,
because
you
have
a
right
to
you,
need
to
give
a
right
to
forget
right
and
once
you
put
all
your
all
their
pis
onto
the
blockchain,
you
cannot
forget
them.
So
there
are.
These
are
the
challenges
but
yeah
somewhere.
If
he
can,
you
know
you
know,
taking
more
solutions
and
bringing
some
sort
of
identity
on
blockchain
like
from
the
foundation.
B
I
was
having
a
very
good
discussion
regarding
so
in
India
we
have
aadhar,
which
is
like
with
1.4
billion
people.
If
we
onboard
that
onto
the
blockchain,
just
imagine
what
kind
of
identification
can
that
be
right
and
then
you
can
subsequently
use
it,
possibly
across
other
chains.
You
know
cross
chain
as
well,
but.
A
B
C
C
F
B
You
I
think
that
the
question
is
to
me
anyway,
so
so
yeah.
So
that's
that's
a
that's
a
beautiful
part
of
the
entire
platform.
Since
two
and
a
half
years,
banks
have
already
been
giving
loans
on
the
platform.
7
million
till
now.
That's
completely
centralized
finance
loan,
as
you
can
see
now,
once
we
go
live
on
the
mainnet,
it
would
be
D5
loans
as
well.
They
would
be
disjointed
amongst
themselves
right,
the
C5
D5
part,
but
the
Pharma
would
have
access
to
both
from
the
click
of
a
button.
B
So
you
see
it's
a
bridge,
it's
not!
We
are
stopping
one
and
starting
another.
It's
just
that
we're
bridging
in
fact
yeah.
So
that's
that's
what
it's
the
need
of
the
art
at
this
moment
and
whenever
the
farmer
would
see
that
okay,
one
C5,
has
a
lower
interest
rate
or
defazer
lower
interest
rate.
They
can
just
go
ahead
and
choose
that
option.
Farmer
has
nothing
to
do
with
which
I'm
specifically
choosing
right.
B
One
point
here
is
that
for
the
D5
solution
we
would
also
need
an
off-ramp
solution,
because
you
can
imagine
I
can
just
go
ahead
and
give
usdc
to
a
farmer
and
say
that
okay,
yeah,
you
know,
buy
your
next
crops.
You
know
next
season
cycle
for
that
with
that
usdc.
So
that
is
the
challenge
you
asked
about
interest
rate.
It
is
currently
nine
percent
for
annum.
G
G
Now
you
all
are
talking
to
each
other
and
you're
collaborating
and
learning
from
each
other,
but
there
are
many
other
projects
in
the
ethereum
ecosystem
and
that
are
doing
reaching
to
the
next
billion
people
like
this
good
dollar.
There's
proof
of
humanity.
There
is
human
Dao.
Human
Dao
is
actually
bringing
work
to
people
providing
economic
opportunities.
A
I
think
that's
like
a
really
really
fascinating
idea
and
I
mean
I.
Think
that's
a
lot
of
the
the
work
that
I'm
doing
is
basically
ecosystem
research
and
what
will
come
out
of
that
is
basically
a
whole
ecosystem
map
of
different
folks
working
on
these
specific
Solutions
sort
of
focusing
on
defy
so
I
think
that's
a
great
proposition
I!
Don't
know!
If
there's
anything
else,
you
guys
yeah
no.
C
B
B
A
C
D
B
So,
for
me
it's
it's.
The
product
name
is
World.
W
h,
r
r
l
comes
from
Warehouse
receipt.
Lending
with
an
extra
R
in
between
or
just
search
for,
Abhishek
bhattacharya
Twitter
is
that
Abhishek
yeah?
That's
all
so
I
think
you
should
be
able
to
find
this
online
from
the
agenda
anyway.
It's
there
incredible.