Ethereum Foundation DevCon 6 - Staking & Validator Experience Track, 13 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: Promoting Small and Independent Stakers: Q&A with the Ethereum Staking Protocols | Devcon Bogotá

Description

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https://archive.devcon.org/archive/watch/6/promoting-small-and-independent-stakers-qanda-with-the-ethereum-staking-protocols/

The Node Operator Association presents a roundtable discussion on promoting small and independent professional stakers. Topics include operator qualifications, application processes, costs, risks, each platform's unique advantages, and their vision for the future of Ethereum staking.

Panelists:
Darren Langley (Rocket Pool)
Vasiliy Shapovalov (Lido)
Oisin Kyne (Obol)
Jordan Sutcliffe (Stakewise)
Ariel Zimroni (SSV Network)

Speaker(s): Ken Smith, Oisín Kyne, Darren Langley, Mike Leach, Ariel Zimroni, Jordan Sutcliffe, Vasiliy Shapovalov
Track: Staking & Validator Experience
Keywords: SaaS,Staking,Protocols

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Learn more about devcon: https://www.devcon.org/
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Devcon is the Ethereum conference for developers, researchers, thinkers, and makers.
Devcon 6 was held in Bogotá, Colombia on Oct 11 - 14, 2022.
Devcon is organized and presented by the Ethereum Foundation, with the support of our sponsors. To find out more, please visit https://ethereum.foundation/

A

A

Like the the most liquid token in the like, except Bitcoin, right in the in the crypto World, um but it will happen on natural causes eventually like the creek is, is very important, but it can't compete with that.

A

um That's one thing the other to answer the question. um I was like very much terrified this last like half half a year, uh but it turns out that, like was I, was like, like way more pessimistic about how the um how people actually I'm sorry my time's up.

B

To interrupt there, you just have hello hello. We just have five minutes more, that's the way to.

C

B

If we have, if we want questions from the audience, yeah.

D

It would be great to take some some questions from the audience, um so so sorry vacillate.

E

It I'll give you a quick yeah: yeah can I just Express the minority voice over here.

D

E

Lsds has been great and people thought in the in defy, um especially before withdrawals are available and but there's also a lot of races right. There's the the liquidity, the smart contracts they're depending and all of that, and it does come down basically to your to your risk. Tolerance right eat its king in India.

E

In this case, when I give my ether to another protocol, I give him my major and all the associate riches that come with it and I think the big players in the upcoming, like the near years, will still prefer to natively use ether.

D

Okay, all right! Well, thanks! So much guys uh we're gonna move on to the audience q a session, uh because we have just a very small amount of time left so I saw you shoot up your hand right, real quickly right at the beginning, so.

F

Hi, how are you congrats and thank you? My name is Pablo I'm, the founder of send signal the first node operator in Latin America. We are talking with all of you and I think. Something really important is not only geographically centralization, but also less dependence on Amazon. As most of the operators work with Amazon, we try to work with local and Regional uh data centers. My question is: how do you distribute a Mev uh yeah thanks.

B

A

Yeah I I can answer that. It's very simple. The same way we lose taking rewards uh like rewards, are the same as taken they go to stakers, mostly the not operators get the fee and later gets its fee, but 98 of rewards go to stickers.

G

uh With rocketpool um you uh so obviously it says, I said: 16th is node. Operators, 16 is liquid stickers, and so uh in terms of Mev and priority fees, uh you it's a kind of equal split um between node operators and uh and liquid stakers, except that the node operators get their fee on the rewards. So they get 15 of the of the of the commission on the on the rewards, so they still get that kind of extra bit from the from the Mev and um Mev and priority fees. uh That's the usual case.

G

We've also got like a smoothing pool um where uh this is particularly important for small node operators that are running kind of a couple of validators.

G

The way that block proposals work is very variable, so you can have like two a year or 10 a year um and that hits small node operators hard. So if you join the smoothing pool, everyone pulls their proposals together, which works particularly well for Mev, because with Mev, that's essentially a lottery block. You may have end up with a lottery block that goes into the smoothing pool and then basically everyone gets a share of the smoothing Port.

G

um So yeah, that's what we do.

B

We have time for one last question: 12.

A

B

H

I have a question about operator set so in the two cases here, like light out stake, wise, more professional operators are involved, rocket, pool kind of a blend honestly of both um would love to hear more about from Statewide and Lido. Like do you see a future where your pools include professional, validators and at-home validators working together to achieve a common goal.

A

Yeah yeah sure, so that's what we're trying to design right now uh in in that. We think that most of the state should be managed by professional operators still, but we want. We don't like what we want is to light up for be it pipeline from like a homesteaker to professional operator.

A

So you can kind of operate as a like as a solo operator and Lido with small amount of stake, and if you do it well and if you want to do it like as not as a hobby, because, like honestly most celebrators are not rational, like they're, not making a business out of it, they just do it for fun, uh which is great right, but if they want to do it for like for for their job, they should have the ability to like earn their reputation, earn the like the um their metrics required to get on the in into this like set of big boys and grow up, because otherwise it will be a little bit of categorization like three year stops.

C

um And yeah I completely. So the way B3 is designed. I pointed out Thursday because as a key target market, but essentially this this protocol will will satisfy every single anybody who can run a node can run a node on on B3 and one of the uh from discussions with commercial node operators. One of the key things for for these guys is coming over to stake away three, so they can provide liquid staking with fun to their clients, um and so mv3.

C

Every single node operator or group of node operators will have their own little mini, staking pool and can then their users can then mint to liquid staking token. So it offers liquid sticking to everybody, no matter whether you're solo, sticker or commercial node operator so by proxy. We're going to end up with basically like an Open Marketplace of operators and groups of operators who are running various Technologies, who are on the stage today um to compete for for state and again that can be solar, stakers and also commercial operators as well.

D

B

Hi there's only one of you there to estimate the amount of I mean the percent of a sort of Staker that the network that the network will have in like five years, I mean can be higher than now or lower than now. Great.

D

B

Because I mean lsds are great right. uh You can use your stake position as collateral and you also average out the rewards right so why it's always taken you. There is no point of that right. Some people will do it even for free but yeah. What will happen in the next five years, more sort of stickers on less or less all those takers. Thanks.

C

Well, if statewide's V3 works, we'll, hopefully have more um as I said, the reason why and obviously touched on it, it's it's almost non-economical to be a sales taker. You do it for fun or to because you're an a decentralization maxi, um and so you know our goal is to try and make it economical and let them let them get access to liquid staking which they have not been able to before.

G

So so we rocket pool um it is pretty much no different to being a salon. Staker um the you have autonomy over your node, uh you bring collateral, so you have a stake. uh The only difference is you get paid more, that's that's the that's the only real difference from it from an ethereum perspective and from a decentralization perspective. uh You know it's exactly the same so yeah, that's that's where we come from today.

I

G

I

I was to add to that I think um the question is there'll, be a long tail of like solo stickers for sure the question is how much the stake will be on them, um and that's where you know everyone up here is trying to figure out.

I

How can you let soul of stakers like have a bit of capital in someone else's Capital, if there's a rocketpool scenario of make them Bond if stakewise V3, you've, let the like people take the risk and choose like a vault for like a certain risk, and we hope that with distributed validators you can trust small stakers as if they were an Enterprise you're like yeah, for you guys and you're all credible and you're, not one you know person you guys can have 99.99 uptime. So we can, you know, trust, putting stake on you.

I

You can't exit, you can't even get flashed, so we hope with DVT people like you know, light on stakewise. All of them can you know, throw a lot more ether onto small stakers and make it. You know, make sense that he said not to just a last leading kind of Die Hard Hobby.

A

um Yeah yeah on on our side like how we think about it, is uh to have a lot of um solo, not operators.

A

um You need to like design system in a way that first uh does not require them to hold a bond, because, like most people who want to run and know they don't have this much money like most people, like don't, have this much money period right uh to to to to to to run like even half of the normal data like crying like lying around so like they have to be selected not on like unbonded and someone Bond Way, um and that means, on the other hand, that in history manage risks, and you need to manage the white labels like, for example, you uh if you want a lot of solo operators in the protocol, and you want to think about that.

A

You need to understand that these are not like the one operator in these guys like in, like in range code like this 100 notes.

A

um uh This is like essential for not so for protocols that mostly manage risks instead of bond, but even in both the products will act like there is a lot of uh folks run the rocket pool with all notes, for example.

A

um So these are hard problems to solve, but I believe they are solvable. So.

E

C

A

E

Add up to what Austin said! um Imagine if you can use like DVT to pair yourself with with a repeatable top class operators or even to pair yourself with your friends, which you trust to run it, and so the technology advantage that will come will reduce the barriers to do that in a still reliable way.

E

G

Sorry, uh another thing rocket poor doing uh So. Currently it's 16 that you need uh so in our next release, it'll be eight and then in potentially in our next release lower. So that's how you get more node operators, that's what we that's! What we want is more individual node operators, not necessarily more stake.

D

Great all right, well, unfortunately, we're out of time for uh new audience questions, but I promise you all five of these folks are going to be wandering around the conference floor after this. So if you have any questions for them or for me, uh we would all be very happy to chat with you throughout the rest of the day and throughout the rest of the week. Thank you so much everybody for coming. Thank you. Thank you.