Ethereum Foundation DevCon 6 - ZKPs: Privacy, Identity, Infrastructure & More Track, 15 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: Public Goods and Experiments, the journey of Zkopru by Wanseob Lim | Devcon Bogotá

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https://archive.devcon.org/archive/watch/6/public-goods-and-experiments-the-journey-of-zkopru/

Zkopru is one of the inital projects of EF's PSE team. During the development and experiements PSE team could establish the own ethos for the public goods and experiments. This talk introduces Zkopru project's journey from the beginning to its sunset of the 1st version. Also it introduces the achievements and the future plans.

Speaker(s): Wanseob Lim
Skill level: Beginner
Track: ZKPs: Privacy, Identity, Infrastructure, & More
Keywords: applied zk,public goods,experiments

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Devcon is the Ethereum conference for developers, researchers, thinkers, and makers.
Devcon 6 was held in Bogotá, Colombia on Oct 11 - 14, 2022.
Devcon is organized and presented by the Ethereum Foundation, with the support of our sponsors. To find out more, please visit https://ethereum.foundation/

A

A

And the journey and the public goods and experiments that they've experienced in the course of developing ZK Opera.

B

uh Hello, everyone, um thank you so much uh for uh joining today's talk. uh Today's talk is about mostly about the public goods and experiments. So it is uh very, very furry. Beginners I think you don't need any knowledges about some zkp or very some um difficult, math. So I think you can just uh let's my talk very uh in a easily okay.

B

So let me start the talk so today a lot of our PSA team members are having presentations uh at Defcon uh I've been in this team from 2019 and actually today, I want to share my experience uh during the team.

B

uh I'm sure that we've been keeping our own Eagles, pretty well from 2019 uh I can say, like our ethers, I mean PSE teams either is focusing on public goods and doing experiments.

B

uh Let me rephrase it: we do public goods that others will never do. If we don't do and we do experiments because sometimes experiments are expensive and they are not. It is not affordable for some other teams.

B

But actually it was pretty hard to keep the faith I mean because there are so many fun things in the ethereum world. We had gone through the defy summer nft boom in.

B

Maybe, if you are some technical guy, you can launch a layer, something layer, Network something so our team has uh has been working with a lot of talented and outstanding people, but during those summer seasons we could see that many of our friends, close friends becoming millionaires, some of them, like billionaires- and you know actually what we are doing in the team- is kind of a very difficult thing and also one of the most Advanced Technologies. So maybe a lot of the teammates uh could just a very big reverse if they go to market.

B

So many people left the team.

B

uh So in the team they are left only some types of people, someone who really loves the cryptography research and the achievements or someone who truly loves the public goods- and maybe someone like me, who has a strongly aligned value with the team so today, I want to share one my case here about my case.

B

Actually this is kind of a personal stories.

B

I just found it a startup in 2012 with my friends and actually it was acquired by another another, a little bit, bigger startup in 2014 and I swapped, all my equities to the new one and after the question I tried to work very hard there, because I stopped all my equities, the new one but I felt most of other team members uh were not like me and I just found that oh yeah I think there is some incentive problem, because the founders have like a more than 50 shares and just imagine how much you can give to the 10th member if you're a Founder, it's like I guess less than one person usually like five point: uh five percent, then actually it's kind of very 100 times it's kind of exponential.

B

Smaller incentive for the teammates so yeah. Actually that was what I found and just to disguise this incentive problem. Founders, usually should have to do some lots of sweet talks to motivate the team members and I. For me, this kind of situation were pretty exhausting, so yeah actually I'm, not saying that uh Founders are greedy, because Founders should take the older responsibility to build a product and to build a company. Actually it pretty works well for some rocket speed, Venture companies, but for me it was very exhausted.

B

So from that time, I just started to explore open sources and getting deeply uh into that culture. So and interestingly, what was very inspiring to me was the contributors are giving up their commercial incentives of their of their source code, and you know in our society. Source codes are the most powerful means of production.

B

Doesn't it sound like very communistic? Hey, don't worry, I'm from South Korea, not the north, so yeah. By the way, there is a very, very big difference that is, freedom in the open source. Society. The contributors give up the commercial incentives uh of The Source Code by their own freedom, and we do that to run the software and to study the software and modify the software and share the software by our own freedom.

B

So this value-driven community was so fascinating for me and uh because it was very, very totally different with the startup community that I was in before so, and I just started to get to know about the value of sharing and then finally, actually, everyone knows which Community is the most crazy value driven community.

B

Yes, we are yes, we are ethereum is the world of Freedom by the etherean people, where we can do everything by the code I just so I just dived into this world and just just enjoy and explore the freedom with this lovely community.

B

As a result, throughout a few years of Journey now, I am doing the public goods and experiments for the freedom in the team.

B

Yeah, maybe now is the time to talk about the copper yeah by the way, then, uh what kind of Freedom I'm talking about here now, let me give you another story. um Once I traveled with my friends before I, just sent stable coins to my friends uh to split the bill, and actually my friend just added my ethereum address to the watch list of the either skin and when my makerdale position got liquidated, he just messaged me. Oh my God where's, my freedom for the privacy.

B

So actually this was the start of the zika pro project. So I started to write a privacy protocol to keep my right to be free from unwarranted publicity.

B

At first I just tried to implement some minimum protocol in ethereum just the same as a layer to protocol using optimistic rollup.

B

Signature application, but because of that it couldn't hide the transaction graph and also it had a some problems like it needs an interactive transaction building process.

B

So from 2019 uh with Barry I started to write a new specification to implement Z cash on ethereum, uh just using the optimistic approach. So we achieved pretty low gas cost cheap transaction and also the compliance compatibility using the spending key and viewing key of the zika's scheme and a lot of uh people and teammates contributed to this protocol. Very transl.

B

A lot of people contributed this to this protocol, so finally, we could ship this protocol in 2020 our.

C

B

Version and we could ship the second version in 2021.

B

during the development. We had a lot of discussions about the growth strategy.

B

The first option for us was about just spinning out just lagi and his team, but when we thought about our philosophy that we do public goods and researches, what others will never do uh and what what has never do, if you don't do in this point of view, actually spinning out, didn't make sense that much because already many teams, like Aztec tornado, uh polygonite ball and a lot other teams were already trying to ship the private protocol.

B

So then, what's the thing that uh others will never do so, because other teams have their own shareholders and because of the many things should be related to the business school business stuff.

B

uh Therefore, sometimes the source code also becomes the means to means to maximize The Profit only for some people.

B

So what we've decided to do is shipping the reference we ship, the reference specification and we ship the reference implementation and also we ship. The reference example applications on top of our protocol.

B

And what we do is encouraging you to Fork our reference and ship, your own thing for your own Target Customer, because we believe the power of Open Source, and we are very ready to help you, everyone who wants to work and ship your own product.

B

This is how we think about the public goods and our own events.

B

To be more detailed, actually there are some reasons, uh good reasons that you need to Fork zika Brew. The first thing is like the Copper's goal is uh to seeing everyone uses crypto payment in our daily lives like when you pay at a restaurant, but when you pay at a restaurant, if we have the private transaction, the government cannot tax you, so we need a compliance compatibility. So if you ship this protocol for your own country, then actually you can ship a great crypto payment Network for your own country, which is pretty big business right.

B

um However, because the current version 2 is pretty outdated compared to the recent advancement, we are going to write new specification with everyone, so we are looking for participants who will join this journey together.

B

So what we are going to do to write the new specification is like the first for the new specification, we're going to include a recursion scheme and a better membership proof scheme, also we're going to support various types of talking and also for the consensus part we're going to use hybrid finalization scheme using zkp and also optimistic approach, and then we're gonna ship, the reference implementation. If many parties join this journey, then maybe PS team might only some coordination.

B

Just like ethereum 2.0 I mean the consensus layer and we're going to ship the uh zika Pro to the public, and we want that. Other commercial party do this together because we won't do the commercialization yeah. So it's almost end of the talk uh today. I am very very happy to share our PSD team's. Only those and our own culture with you all so I just want to Define, because this is my personal opinion.

B

I just want to Define PSC teams, only those as we do public goods that others will never do if we don't do, and we do the experiments uh which is not affordable for many teams and also we work for value of e3 personally, which is freedom.

B

Okay, thank you for. Thank you, everybody. This was my stuff. Thank you. So much.

D

Any questions, thank you for the talk, um not super familiar with zko Pro, but when you say it's intended to be forkable, do you envision I, guess I'm curious what you see as like a project potentially forking it like? Is it an application specific um or is it like a potential Layer Two project? Looking to like build off your stack as like a foundation for their L2 or L3 or Beyond.

B

Yeah, actually, we are trying to focus on the examples like the first one is the actually we are trying too many experiments. The next talk from takamiche is about the experiment we are doing, which is kind of Private Exchange. So because using the private exchange, we can prevent the MAV. Actually, we are not sure that it can be usable for they'll like just like uni swap, but we're just doing these experiments if others want to do, wants to use it and also be another.

B

The other example that we want to really want to see is the merchant service, the shipping, the crypto people or shipping, the crypto Shopify on top of the Corporal, because the copper has a private Atomic sword feature, so you can exchange an nft which is a digital good with your token. So this is the examples uh that we want to see, and maybe we are targeting these uses.

C

uh Great talk uh just one quick question: I was curious if you have any thoughts on polygon, Nightfall or other sort of more commercialized versions of C GoPro.

B

Yeah um actually we are. We were very very happy that when Nightfall team launched their project because they gave us a credit- they just said they Inspire from our product and project. So actually that was kind of our first achievement in terms of our ethos like because if we want to ship the reference and actually Nightfall team inspired by us and ship that project, so we were very, very happy and actually including polygon, Nightfall team and any other team.

B

If any any team wants to work together, then we are really happy to ship the reference specification and implementation together.

E

Great talk, I just want to ask, is hmm how do you achieve a balance between experimenting and not wasting Resources by, while still preserving those resources and trying to maximize The Innovation? That comes out from that, and thank you. Yeah.

B

Maybe I think that um our super designer Rachel might be a very good person who can answer this one, because we were trying to do a lot of some like you know that we can do some experiments without shipping it. We can do some experiments with some papers right, so we are trying to do some methodologies like that, and a lot of designers are doing that really well, so I'm really happy for the.

B

Thank you. Everyone.