Ethereum Foundation Ethereum Berlin Meetup July, 24 Jul 2019

Previous Meeting

Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Ditcraft: dit is the new git - Developing CODE in a DAO - by Sebastian Gajek

Description

Berlin Ethereum Meetup 2019/07/24

A

All right guys, hi I'm, Sebastian I, am a member of a dead craft team and I gonna introduce you're a tool which we called it's it's a decentralized version, prominent get clients, so who of you guys is an active developer.

A

Wonderful who of you is familiar with git perfect. So then you're right target group to introduce you a decentralized version of executives, kind of clients and the reason why we came up with the idea that the word needs a decentralized git client. It's effectively that we added craft, belief and dowse. If you guys heard about those, yes, okay, good, so fortunately, I have some slides where I gonna introduce you what the meaning of $1. But in fact, if you add au, is nothing else than the idea of lifting the blockchain principles of decentralization of democracy.

B

A

The next level- and the next level is where we, the humans, are the people and I think what does have in particular a lot of value to add when it comes to software development.

A

So enough teast, let's dive a bit more into the details, so, as mentioned the big password and the blockchain community, these days is a decentralized autonomous organization and the ideas of a Dao actually boil down to the fact that whatever we learned from blockchain network's, namely that nodes can freely, you know, come and go, participate in, and consensus protocol and just agree on the next state of common truth.

A

This principle, you know, could be effectively lifted a lot of applications where we humans, you know, also participate in consensus, and we.

A

Added craft at some point started to think: okay, a Dow is actually a wonderful concept. You know a lot of people talk about that, but let's build it yeah, let's build it, and then we started to figure out that actually whoo what is actually a Dow yeah. So a dog could, for example, be you know a family. You know we're all members of a family. Just you know, try to do their own things, but still you know because we're a family.

A

We need to reach a consensus and agree, for example, that what we're gonna do today or tomorrow what they're gonna eat whatever then a European Union is also a great example for a dowel. We have like a lot of countries. You know which belong to the member countries of the European Union's. All of them function stand alone, but the European Union is just some kind of framework, like a dowel framework that you know puts all those countries say in one Union and then they democratically decide what is good say for the European Union.

A

When we talk about the Dow, we're actually interested, of course in software yeah. So the question is: how can we build and then decentralized, incentivized and democratic way, software yeah? So we're rather trying to look. You know at the googles, but rather from a decentralized autonomous point of view, and this is the mission of did craft so we're building the tools in order to make the idea. But at some point you know all the developers.

A

So most of you guys here can at some point you know, contribute with your code to an organization, and this will be, of course, be valued and appreciated.

A

Yeah and some people started to define, you know how one could build a dowel. So there's a lot of you know, discussions going on and I think soon. In a month, there's gonna be a blockchain week here in Berlin and I think what number one topic will be how to build out. So from our point of view, adele is nothing else when standards say funnel of software development start from the bottom up. So normally, when we build software, we develop we code, and ideally we test our code prior to that.

A

Of course, we design what we want to implement, so we design, maybe an architecture or an algorithm, whatever it needs and prior to that and the final we of course, first of all we analyze four requirements. You know our software should realize, and in order to do that, of course we need, you know some kind of resources, so either we do it. You know as a full-time developer for account up we're freelancers or we are. You know lucky that we received some kind of grants and order.

A

You know to implement the software rule we were interested in. So this is a standard funnel which is necessary in order to build software, and when we, for example, achieve to decentralize this process, then something magical might have yeah. Okay, forget that good, so I mean we're developing software for years.

A

Why should we change something? Why spare you know hang up of something different? Do you guys have maybe from your experiences any ideas? What goes wrong these days? Maybe with open-source developments.

A

C

A

Not Kenneth's work.

A

Many times getting to his question.

C

Too many requests or that they doing it in this bedtime.

D

C

Have a job all right: I can't maintain.

E

Importantly, maybe it's used by thousands of projects, yeah problems that depict it okay,.

A

Other problems, you guys, might have a security security, yeah good point.

F

I mean incidents where the handover to the co2 maintainer was bad yeah.

A

So heartbleed is I, think a wonderful example right, but but maintain their didn't, really check the contribution of the heartbleed feature, and then it turned out and one of the biggest security disasters I. Think of that century. I would call it ok, ok, so let me start with a controversial statement. I believe that coding these days is meta governance, and you know meta-god means that, for example, there's only one project owner that you know has to do all the hard work yeah and a gradient example. Is this guy I mean don't get me wrong?

A

I, really liked that him. He did a lot, but we all of us also know that he's a very special project, maintainer project owner right- and this is really a quote- that he apologizes for being. You know such an within the last decades because he was really you know, I think killing a lot of good feature ideas because they didn't comply with his vision. How the Linux kernel should look like, and you know this kind of centralized project ownership. You know not only leads, you know to burnouts or security vulnerabilities, but it also sometimes leads.

A

You know to development of a very good project, but unfortunately you know in the wrong direction yeah. So there they have been a lot of examples with Linux kernels, but people suggested really good features, but he just blocked them. Yeah.

A

Another problem, I think today, is what coding is Miss. Incentivized I think you know a lot of you, people just you know, program in your spare time. You know put a lot of passion into your ideas, but at some point you know those I good ideas turn maybe in something really really cool. A good example. I think is the vasila project yeah. So those guys really did you know something great.

A

You know back in the days they came up with a wonderful browse, but at some point there was another cup Google that came up with idea. ah We need our own browser and do you guys know this story? How started with what kind of code.

A

Yeah and what is within Safari yeah, so I'm not sure whether it's Safari, because I remember that they used a lot of features from the Mozilla project. So, for example, the whole web rendering packages that's been taken from Mozilla.

A

Good but anyways, so the problem is, you know, would have a problem. I want to mention here is the problem, which is called the browser battle. Yeah.

D

A

There used to be this wonderful, open source project. Then at some point you know a competitor came up and he reached more and more markets chairs right now, I think Google is I, think having most market shares among all Brahe browsers and one of the reasons and I mean just you know, Google, ironically, you know for that article.

A

It really, you know, gives some kind of clues that Google, you know continuously made life harder for Mozilla and they conjecture that that's one of the reasons why, for example, Silla just you know, lost more and more market shares yeah. So my point is that you know due to the fact that at some point, good ideas, you know that you know have been incubated in the open source community have been you know taken, and then you know commercialized, with the consequence that now people that contributed to this open source project suffer from good.

A

So these have been just you know some problems with existing, or at least from our point of view, with the way software and open-source software is developed these days. So, let's start to think you know, how can we, you know, change for situation, using principles of a Dao and the basic principle of a Dao? Is that no one really owns four projects? It's the community that owns a project, so there is no Santa Claus project owner and in order to reach that we need a lot so that kind of consensus protocol and thus.

F

A

Is perfect so what we need in order to now decentralize project ownership is, as mentioned, a consensus protocol and this consensus protocol among humans is normally referred. As a voting protocol implementing voting protocols on say, a blockchain network is actually not that trivial.

A

So the de facto voting protocol in the theorem community is something which I call the one stake. One vote protocol- if you guys heard about that okay, so let me show you how it works, so it works that every voter stakes, some kind of tokens- maybe some Eve, then a quorum- is decided and the majority. So the winners of a decision. You know / mistake of losers, and the idea behind this protocol is that you know it's game theoretic, which means that you know.

A

We assume that all voters are, of course, interested in maximizing the utility which means maximize. There are a number of tokens so whenever they contribute with their vote to something they don't want to lease lose first stake. So this is the main idea behind that protocol.

A

There's anybody of you also have an idea year. What is the weakness of his protocol and.

A

And what is the intention of collusion.

G

Still, okay yeah! So if, if I'm going to vote on a feature, I'd rather make like I'd, rather be sure that I'm not losing my coins right, so I'm probably going to do a lot of politics outside of the voting I.

A

Mean politics is always part of voting right. Yes,.

G

Okay, the other thing I was wondering, is what, if you don't vote at all, if I decide to it's, no one yeah.

A

Let's just see you, you nevertheless want to vote, but ideally you know the attack would be, but you would like to bias the outcome of the vote right. How can you do that? What kind of extra power do you need?

A

It's a it's also the standard problem of fruit or of a fear with proof of state protocols in general that if there's a party that is overly rich, it can easily bias the outcome of an election yeah simply by just out staking or others yeah, very, very simple attack and as simple as this attacks might sound. It also happened recently in an arrogant voting yeah.

A

So there have been examples where in the last second, there was one guy who, just you know, outnumbered and particular questions and particular proposals or others, and this is a severe problem. You know to this consensus mechanism.

A

So what we then thought can we do something better, something which really, you know meets, say the spirit of a community and particularly say open source of blockchain community. Can we design a protocol which also allows us to reach consensus, but maybe which is not based on wealth, but aren't something different, and this something different? Is knowledge yeah? No, let's just something which I think one has you know to somehow acquire over time what it's not possible to buy knowledge say on an exchange, it's also independent of say your origin.

A

It doesn't matter whether you have been a rich kid or not. Knowledge is really something which I think is more suitable to decide on very important questions, for example, very specific questions which actually only knowledgeable people which are normally experts in the very particle field, should decide on. So we came up with a new voting protocol and it works very similar to that first protocol I showed you guys of a kind of staking protocol, but here the differences, but first of all everybody every voter proposes with the same amount of stake.

A

So all the golden coins is visas. For example, Eve, so all of the players stake first of all, the same amount of collateral, and now the difference is that we introduced a second token, which we call the knowledge token, and this token is something which you can only acquire by participating in elections by participating, for example in voting's, which you know define, for example, is that a good feature or is that a bad feature, or this was good code yeah? So we mentioned that, for example, code testing.

A

It's like a huge problem, yes, so, for example, you know only if you, for example, proved but you validated enough code, and this code was proper. You received in a very special knowledge which is quantified in knowledge tokens, and with that knowledge token, you now can wait your vote yeah. So the number of knowledge tokens give you some extra power and the governance of a very practical project or an you know influencing with decision in a very particular matter. This is the key idea of knowledge. Extractable voting.

A

Do you guys have questions? Do.

F

You can lose knowledge tokens, of course,.

A

You lose knowledge tokens. If you lose a voting, then your knowledge is burnt, and this is exactly you know the crypto economic incentives behind behind us protocol there. If you assume that knowledge is really like, you know the highest say value valuable token. In an and in a Dao, then of course losing knowledge means that, for example, you lose reputation. You lose government's power, you lose.

A

You know, features for example like you're, not gonna, get admission to very, very delicate elections, and you could think about that and the only way to again mint knowledge tokens, it's proving to the community. But you do understand what we are talking about, because you know you have to you know win in those elections. Otherwise you will never mint just burn knowledge.

F

I mean how many tokens knowledge token do yet, because I can be very good at testing, but not architecture. Exactly.

A

So there is not a single knowledge. Token and knowledge. Token is something like a label. So, for example, there is a knowledge token for go. There is the knowledge token for latex there is the knowledge token for HTML and whenever you define an election, you know of the community defines what kind of say, knowledge tokens you know, characterizes a project.

F

And two votes: for the knowledge: token knowledge level: how do you, how do you define this level? Who.

A

Define it so right now, we just you know, made it simple, so we defined I, think 10 or 15 knowledge tokens which are predefined, but in an ideal, though, the community itself, what first of all define you know what what are saved the important knowledge tokens for this project, but in the current implementation we just you know selected some prominent ones.

B

Hi thanks I, really like this idea of quantifying knowledge. Anchors I mean money by itself is not why we are doing this right. Yeah and I would I mean as much as you can share. I would love to learn more because I find it difficult to imagine how you actually gonna quantify knowledge without being corruptible without being may be able to trade knowledge tokens for theorem.

B

You know, I could imagine all these kind of things I have never yet found something where everybody is anonymous and you can still validate that this person has done a certain thing. How can fun dessert not excited.

A

Apple radiant one of the questions and exactly those kind of questions has been in spur of the inspiration for this protocol. So, first of all, let me answer that simple question. Well, why can't you, for example, trade knowledge, tokens and that's the beauty of saving a theorem network that you can define smart contracts in such a way that you don't have the ability to define whether you want to, for example, transfer your knowledge tokens to someone you know buy them on an exchange, so this is not implemented.

D

Yeah I had a question but also comment on the on that. Just because you can't transfer the token doesn't mean you can't sell your private key. So but that's a different topic. I just wanted to ask if you could explain like a little bit like they. Actually, you, like you, haven't, actually explained really the use cases and what people would be voting on like ideally like in my project. I prefer as little boating as possible, like usually only just do it like to.

D

You know, resolve a dispute, but there shouldn't be like disputes every day like you, don't want to go voting every day on something you're working on right. So maybe okay.

A

D

You envision this to be useful. Okay,.

A

Today, camps on one two slides: okay: let's go back to the original idea of knowledge, so you could definitely share or sell your private key. But this way you would give away say your whole reputation right. I mean you're, absolutely right that everything is anonymous. Yeah.

C

A

No one can really tell you know who is who absolutely possible, but normally you know, and here's again, the kind of say, game-theoretic incentive argumentation that you build over your time. You know something like your reputation in terms of knowledge tokens.

A

This gives you some kind of extra power in a dowel yeah, because yeah your vote, voting votes weight more when maybe people that recently started it's quite comparable to a computer game right so in the beginning of the first level of your week, but you know after you know, spending hundreds and thousands of hours and you know training your character moving to the next level next level, next level, you of course get more powerful and then the idea is that selling now so your character and starting from scratch is, is disincentivizing people.

A

Another feature we implemented is that we have something like a small kyc, which you know, links profiles with a twitter account, because this way we want prevent that, for example, people clone their identities- and you know, just you know, create multiple profiles, and this way you know maximize this strategy. As you mentioned, you know that you know I trained some pro fights get and make sure that they have a decent amount of knowledge and then sell them on an eBay marketplace and so on right.

A

In order to avoid that, you know you're effectively only able to do have one profile and you need to decide whether you want to sell it or not. I.

B

Mean just just as a comment I mean I, don't think with with assume that would be posit. That would be possible to do, but something like a network of trust, is usually used in that kind of situations where.

F

B

If I train a thousand profiles that are all like highly skilled I have another of knowledge tokens. If they don't refer to anything outside, it would be like a bubble and would rate it down. And while, if you have incoming trust from many parties from around the world from different communities that are trusts from other communities, you know what I mean right.

C

Yeah well, is there something.

B

That would be feasible, I'm, not sure if I understand technologically, if that would be possible, but that could kind of increase the value or represent it. Yeah.

A

I mean we try to somehow reach a similar goal like the goal of web of trust by you know linking if addresses to a very particular profile, namely that of a Twitter account but say in the next say iterations. It would definitely make sense. Also, you know decentralized where vets say: authentication, service or vet kyc service. I told you get your point yeah, but we just started some months ago. So we cannot provide you a SuperDuper, perfect solution.

A

So actually the reason why I'm here and I'm, presenting to you guys, is because I very much sold aside those discussions as feedback and inspiration for maybe you know, implementing the right features, because the decentralized gets you know is effectively a tool for a community for you guys, you know we're not having you know any commercial interests. It's really you know we would like to understand whether principles you know of decentralization incentivized visualization, you know, could be transferred to our daily life or software development yeah. And that's why you know I'm here and I'm.

A

Very happy to you know, get those fruitful discussions, so we definitely need to drink some beers offline.

C

Yeah I apologize if this is a very specific question, but I've been watching this loop for a while yeah and after the vote is decided. The losers stake is divided amongst the winners, yeah and I'm wondering if you've given thought to the rules on that last step.

A

Yeah so I put all my very some math formula behind and the ideas that you use. You know some kind of quadratic factor. You know of the knowledge tokens multiplied by mistake. You given okay.

C

This is something we can yeah.

A

But this is definitely a second beer and.

D

A

I, stick it before for me, they're, together.

G

Yeah just took a couple questions so first, if I am a developer like let's say: okay, I'm working for Google I have a C++ background. So I have a lot of C++ tokens. I decide to you know: poison was Mozilla, they also I mean okay, they're switching to Russ, but they have a big C++ code base. So I can overrule everybody because I have a lot of tokens like of C++ tokens. How do you prevent from second.

E

G

You'd say this is not it's not clear to me why it wouldn't be the same problem as the rich gets richer, because what I can do I can just spread all my tokens into many accounts. Yes, if it's connected to a Twitter account, it's just a script away from being and for not being a problem, so I still see the rich get richer. Maybe you know at a slower pace, but you still because the the decision will be spread, among always.

A

Make against something something that we will never prevent this, for example, but I start with, say: 10 prophytes, you know 10 accounts and then I train them continuously. So right now say the only protection mechanism. We have implemented this, but we do something like a kyc, so we just really want to make sure that the guy you know who is behind, but if a dress has an active, say, Twitter profile and shows that he's not a boss.

A

So we tried to implement not in a perfect way, because everything is not working progress, but at least the idea is that we would like to do something like a capture test through that kyc yeah.

A

In order to exactly prevent that, you know you have like one real account and 10 20 bots that work for you that you know participate in elections. That, of course accumulate knowledge and this way get more and more powerful yeah. So the idea is that prove the Twitter kyc. We, you know, implement something similar to a capture and some this way hope that you know those automation attacks. You have in mind, you know, are prevented.

E

Making sure differently, example leaving me versus simplification. One of them is the fourth of the other, those guys just had a big fall outs and they each other's guts and yeah.

E

Kill the other.

A

So my hope is that- and this is the 51% hope, but there's still a large enough say c-plus best community- that when they notice that there is was hijacking happening, but at least when they participate in an election, make sure that this kind of hijacking attack doesn't really happen and the nice swing is we implemented the burning mechanism of knowledge tokens in a very, very radical way. So effectively you really lose quadratically the number of knowledge tokens, so the math behind us of saying that gaining knowledge is really really taking a lot of time.

A

But if you really, you know, participate in an election where you know you're gonna lose because this is not what the community wants. You know, you're gonna, be punished by. You know getting a lot of your knowledge burns yeah. So it might happen. You know. Maybe you know at some point that there might is was hijacking attack, but if a community is really online and believing and the whole principle of adèle, then in that moment you know they should really team up.

A

You know really decide what the community wants and then make sure that when would Silla, you said mozilla, whoever writes so will not. You know, hijack any project, yeah good, let's get more into the use cases. So let me first of all tell you what we have implemented and we went for two directions. First of all, we developed in a very old-school way a standalone client like the get client, but the differences that the whole protocol was taking the labeling.

A

You know everything is, you know, part in our debt client.

A

Then we also came up with the user interface just in order to make sure or to simplify the presentation of existing votes as well. As you know, giving you an better overview. How many tokens in what labels you have and.

A

Your mind, the key message is still that if you behave honnestly then you will gain knowledge and you will maximize your stake. But if you're, you know a badass, you know, then at some point you will lose much of your stake and this way also lose power in the software down.

A

There are two versions, so a test net version where you can just you know, play standalone with the clients, have your elections and we, you know, create it. You know free for bots that will vote randomly for you. This is just you know for playing, you know playing with the tool and then there is a maenad version where we use the power network. So where you can use you know excite open and mint main that knowledge tokens good server demo.

A

So all the details, so you can call download the client as well get access to to the Explorer through either a website or just go to our Twitter account. I would very much appreciate.

A

You know that some of you guys maybe try it out because we want you, know your feedback and what would be a use case just in order to justify why a decentralized version makes more sense. So, first of all, I think one of the fundamental problems we mentioned this security so and the reason why you know we have security problems with existing code. Is that testing you know? Sometimes you know it's.

A

The last think you know in the development cycles and time you know, forces us sometimes to really reduce the test cycles to just do it as paradius lee with the dead client. You know. One idea is that maybe the community is more incentivized now you know to validate certain code contributions, and why should people do it because you know they get tokens and since you know, introduction of blockchain networks, we know that you know people like tokens more or less, then.

A

With that knowledge token, you would, you know, get from participating.

A

In an election of course, you could quantify yourself right. So one of the things which you know I think the open source community is full of brilliant people, but it's really really hard to identify. Who are the real experts in what fields knowledge tokens is nothing else.

A

When a quantifier yeah, we could now come up with rankings, like you know, in the game where we could define who are say the top five developers with that knowledge label, and we could then have really you know a community vetted ranking and that's a nice thing, because knowledge is always you know the result of community vetting. So this way ranking but would allow us to know you know, rank developers would also be based on. You know.

A

Community values and I think these are two important features which we believe could help you guys just in having more fun, creating code.

A

Yep I think this is all from a technical point of view. One thing I would like to just you know: throw in the air so as mentioned blockchain week, Berlin is coming soon to town and we're gonna have a meet-up only dedicated to the question. Can we somehow change the way software is developed today and can in particular you know the idea of say a dhow influence our daily business? So whoever wants to join just drop me a line. I think it's gonna be an amazing meet-up.

A

Also of you know, some copyright cooperate, it's piggybacking us because they are also very interested in that topic. Thanks guys. So please download and let me know what you think.