►
From YouTube: NFT Marketplaces, DeFi, Stablecoins, ETH vs EOSIO, and more with Wax CEO William Quigley
Description
William Quigley is the co-founder and CEO of World Asset eXchange (WAX) and OPSkins. During this conversation we discuss being the first institutional investor in PayPal, co-creating Tether and Mastercoin, DeFi, stablecoins, the origins of trading digital items, NFTs, and what's next for WAX in 2020.
WAX Links
https://wax.io
https://twitter.com/WAX_io
https://t.me/wax_io
https://wax.io/blog/new-wax-and-liquidapps-release-high-powered-developer-tools
***
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https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/everything-eos/id1434560651?mt=2
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A
All
right
welcome
back
to
everything.
Yes,
the
longest-running
yos
podcast
I
am
here
with
William
Quigley,
the
CEO
of
world
asset
exchange,
also
known
as
Wax
he's,
also
the
former
co-creator
of
tether
and
wax.
If
you
haven't
heard
of
it,
you're
living
in
a
hole
somewhere,
it's
like
the
developer
paradise
right
now,
so
many
major
applications
from
the
EOS
may
not
have
been
migrating
or
deploying
like
a
separate
version
of
itself
to
the
wax
chain.
A
A
B
We
started
to
build
it
and
it
didn't
take
that
long.
We
needed
something
to
to
build
it
on
and
we
had
just
become
big
contributors
to
the
to
the
master
coin,
crowd,
sale,
we're
on
the
board,
and
so
I
was
like
hey.
This
might
work
right
and
for
your
audience,
master
coin
was
basically
the
predecessor
to
aetherium.
It
was
the
first
attempt
to
put
an
intelligent
layer
on
top
of
a
blockchain,
and
it
was
my
first
experience
dealing
with
people
who
weren't
always
intelligent.
B
A
lot
of
people
asked
this
question:
why
would
a
blockchain
need
an
intelligent
layer?
You
know
so
that
that
that
was
an
educational
exercise
in
itself,
but
the
very
first
use
case
of
master
coin
was
was
tethered
and
it
up
till
very
recently
was
only
on
master
coin.
Now
it's
on
aetherium
I
think
it
might
even
be
on
Finance,
not
sure.
B
Yeah
and
the
for
anybody
who's
out
there
who's
an
entrepreneur
who's
like
suffered
the
humiliation
of
trying
to
put
forth
an
idea.
You
really
think
it's
a
smart
idea,
but
nobody
wants
to
hear
it.
That
was
tether
and
it's
always
this
way.
I've
been
in
technology
for
decades,
but
but
but
it's
always
this
way.
B
We
talked
to
not
everybody,
but
many
of
them
said,
but
but
the
US
dollar
is
already
digitized.
I
can
already
send
the
dollar
over
rails.
Well,
what's
the
point
of
wrapping
it?
It's
almost
seems
like
a
redundancy
and
given
my
experience
in
digital
item
trading,
for
you
know,
twenty
years
prior
to
crypto
trading
were
called
virtual
items.
B
Video
gaming
items-
I-
it
didn't
occur
to
me
that
most
people
did
not
understand
why
someone
might
want
to
send
someone
else,
a
payment
or
to
accept
as
payment
something
that's
immutable
right
because
most
of
the
people
who
were
saying,
why
would
you
use
tether
or
what's
the
point
of
tether
they've,
never
run
Global
payment,
processing,
businesses
and
what's
the
biggest
problem,
we
face
it's
fraud,
it's
chargebacks!
So
the
notion
that
you
could
send
somebody
a
digitized
form
of
payment
that
could
never
be
charged
back
to
me
and
Brock
and
Jonathan.
B
A
B
And
so
the
impetus
for
the
Furtado
was
really
straightforward.
We
were
trading
and
the
trading
was
pretty
primitive,
but
about
once
a
day
we
would
lose
our
game
face
and
be
like.
Let's
get
the
hell
out
of
these,
you
know
assets
and,
of
course,
how
would
you
go
to
a
safe
harbor?
Well
for
those
of
you
who
were
around
at
that
time,
you
remember
what
we
called
alt
exchanges
and
alt
exchange
was
an
exchange
that
didn't
have
Fiat,
deposit
or
withdrawal
capability.
In
other
words,
it
was
pretty
much
every
every
exchange
on
earth.
B
So
what
you
would
do
is
you'd
go
to
like
a
bitstamp
or
something
that
had
fiat
you'd
send
your
wire
there
and
then
you
would
buy
BTC.
You
would
take
the
PCC
and
transfer
it
to
pull
any
X
or
something
you
would
then
go
and
trade.
The
BTC
for
all
coins
do
your
stuff.
Let's
say
you
freak
out,
you
want
to
get
you
you're
like,
oh,
you
know,
things
are
getting
volatile.
So
what
do
you
do?
You
sell
your
alts
for
BTC,
you
take
your
BTC
and
transfer
it
to
bitstamp.
B
You
leave
it
in
bitstamp
and
and
sell
it
for
fiat
now
you're
in
the
Fiat,
which
is
good.
Typically,
you
would
then,
because
you
didn't
trust,
keeping
your
money
in
bid
stamped,
because
who
is
it
right?
I
mean
we
already
know:
what's
happened
to
doc,
so
you
said:
will
you
please
wire
me
my
money?
Hey?
Why
are
your
money
and
two
days
later,
you're
like
I,
want
to
get
back
in,
don't
rinse
repeat
now,
along
the
way
you've
also
triggered
taxable
gains.
B
So
our
theory
was
what,
if
you
could
move
on
an
alt
exchange
to
a
stable
asset
and
then,
when
you
are
back
into
risk
on
mode
sell
that
asset
force
for
BTC
of
some
other
coin
and
never
leave
the
old
exchange.
I
mean
it
seemed
really
simple
right:
it
took
a
year
to
explain
to
exchanges
and
to
people
why
they
would
want
that
and,
and
I
know
it's
like,
we
all
marvel
at
how
could
no
one
have
understood
the
value
of
the
wheel
right.
B
So,
even
though
I'm
saying
with
some
like,
like
exasperation,
why
did
it
take
so
long,
I
kind
of
know
better
at
this
point?
In
my
life
it
just
does
you
know
people
couldn't
get
it
and
then
of
course,
what
was
the
number
two
question
people
asked,
but
how
do
I
know
I'm
gonna
be
able
to
get
cash
for
this
tether,
and
so
here's
how
I
answer
that
you're
never
gonna
get
cash
for
your
tether.
Why
would
you
ever
take
your
tether
and
try
to
cash
out
for
four
feet?
B
I'd
mayor
this
token
is
way
better
than
feeI
it.
You
know
it's
instantaneous,
it's
immutable
and
I
was
spot-on
there.
No
one
ever
wanted
to
cash
out
once
once
they
had
tether
and
by
the
way
you
could
just
trade
two
tethered
four
for
BTC.
So
we
were
right
about
all
those
things,
but
it
did
take
some
education.
A
This
year,
not
just
this
year,
but
over
the
last
couple
years
with
like
the
growth
and
maturation
of
defy
like
there's
even
less
reason
to
keep
money
in
a
bank
I
can
earn
significant
yield
with
very
flexible,
lock.
Ups
I
I
can
get
like
6%,
with
no
lock
up
with
a
three
month
lock
up
like
12%
on
different
things
like
compound
or
maker
Dow
or
I
use
the
crypto
com
earng
like
there's
so
many
opportunities.
Now
that,
like
it,
wouldn't
be
possible
without
stable
coins,
I
mean
not.
B
Dollar,
sometimes
we're
going
to
are
the
necessary
ingredient
in
defy
I
mean
that's
it
I
mean
the
very
first
derivative
token
was
tethered
and
it
took
several
years
for
for
what
we
now
call
defy
to
happen,
but
it
eventually
did
I
would
say
that
next
to
like
NF,
TS
kind
of
defy
and
NF
T's
are
the
two
things
in
the
last
like
three
years
in
crypto.
That
I've
been
like.
You
know
great,
that's
true.
Innovation,
I'm
very
excited
about
about
where
defy
can
go,
the
notion
of
on
chain
collateralization
and
then
on
chain.
B
You
you,
you
can
get
decentralization,
we're
not
fully
decentralized
but
we're
moving
towards
what
I
call
this
a
toshi
future,
which
is
you,
can
really
live
and
operate
in
a
decentralized
fashion.
So
anyway,
that's
that's
the
tether
story
and
tether
is
now
the
most
traded
token,
including
Bitcoin,
on
earth.
People.
B
Look
like
I
was
on
a
Bloomberg
radio
show
and
I
said
to
somebody
who
said
it
was
during
all
the
controversy
of
us.
It's
there
the
money
there,
not
the
money
there
and
all
that
and
I
said
well,
you
know.
Well,
let's
do
a
thought
experiment
doesn't
matter,
I
mean,
do
you
know
if
there's
any
gold
in
Fort,
Knox
and
I?
Don't,
but
what
I
do
know
is
a
dollar
will
get
me
$1
worth
of
goods.
I
know
the
world
will
accept
my
dollar
more
than
any
other
thing
in
crypto.
B
Tether
is
the
coin
of
the
realm
when
it
comes
to
stable
coins
and
by
the
way,
so
they
were
like
well.
But
what
about
all
this
stuff?
Isn't
that
a
problem
and
I
said
what
is
tethered
trading
it
right
now,
$1
yeah
train
to
the
dogs,
so
tell
me
what
the
problem
is
and
then
we're
very
exasperated.
They're
like,
but
but
I'm
like
guys
it
works.
Would
I
like
there
to
be
daily
audit
to
the
cache.
Would
I
like
the
people
now
running
tethered
to
be
more
transparent,
of
course,
but
it
does
work
without.
A
Tether
I,
don't
think
where
we'd
be
anywhere
close
to
where
we
are
now
and
I
think
we're
already
like
ears
behind
where
I
thought
we
would
be
like
two
years
ago.
At
this
point
so
early
adopter
of
digital
goods,
you
mentioned
you're
doing
stuff
with
Brock
before
even
that's
other
stuff.
So
you're
were
you
part
of
like
ige
and
like
oh,
that
Warcraft
gold
at
that
time,
I
wasn't.
B
And
so
it's
the
reason
why,
when
blockchain
and
crypto
came
along
of
course,
like
all
venture
capitalists
have
what
I
call
scar
tissue,
we
we
do
things
we
get
burned
and
then
we
say
never
again
and
is
like
looked
at
like
what.
What
now
we
would
call
like
crypto
currencies,
but
without
the
without
the
the
real
crypto
piece
of
it.
There
was
in
the
early
days
of
the
internet.
There
were
these
internet
monies
things
like
flues
and
beans.
B
These
were
virtual
items
that
were
backed
supposedly
by
some
amount
of
money
that
were
issued
by
you,
know
single
companies
and
idea
being
what
we
all
know
about.
Crypto
now,
hey
you
can
do
instant
and
you
can
do
micro
payments,
which
even
today
is
impossible
on
the
internet
and
it's
not
a
really
cool
but
of
course,
prior
to
the
Bakhtin
triple
ledger.
There
were
problems
right
so
watching
their
marvelous
job
there,
but
because
of
of
our
trading
experience,
we
were.
B
We
were
quite
aware
me,
Brocken
and
jonathan,
that
people
would
want
to
trade
virtual
items
that
look
like
they
could
operate
as
currency.
You
know
things
like
aetherium
and
and
intelligent
layers
weren't
there
yet,
but
it
seemed
very
intriguing
to
us.
We
were
skeptical
in
that
the
technology
was
really
clunky
and
whatnot
and
there's
been
a
lot
of
scams
in
this
area
around
currency
on
the
web.
But
but
we
were.
We
were
intrigued
because
of
our
of
our
background
and
we
knew
that
people
if
it
worked
and
it
was
convenient
enough
people
would
use
it.
B
What
we
weren't
prepared
for
was
the
the
incredible
resistance
in
the
banking
community
to
helping
to
work
with
blockchain
companies,
and
that,
of
course,
is
a
whole
different
podcast
about
how
come
to
be
that
Bitcoin
and
crypto
speak
aim:
public
enemy
number
one
to
the
US
government
and
to
a
bunch
of
other
governments
and
the
smear
campaign,
and
and
so
on.
Right,
but
I've
learned
whenever
I
see
the
US
government
mentioned
drug-running
money
laundering,
child
porn
it
had
got
and
they
associate
that
with
the
technology.
B
I
know
they
don't
like
this
technology
really
with
Bitcoin
right
I
was
like
wow,
the
full
trifecta,
don't
touch
it,
and
so
banking
was
was
very
very
hard.
It
still
is
very
difficult
to
get
I
mean
the
vast
majority
of
banks
in
the
world.
Don't
want
to
deal
with
crypto,
even
though,
as
your
audience,
we
know
that
from
a
kyc
meaning
know
your
customer
and
money
laundering
perspective.
B
The
tools
available
to
you
to
make
sure
you're
operating
within
the
rules
of
the
law
are
far
better
on
a
blockchain
than
on
the
existing
stitch
together
banking
network.
But
educating
people
about
that
fact
is
quite
tough,
we're
getting
better
I
would
say:
banking
isn't
as
bad
as
it
used
to
be,
but
it.
But
it's
still
one
of
the
big
problems
that
crypto
faces.
I
like.
A
What
you
said
earlier
about
like
with
no
like
we've,
reached
I,
guess
where
we
envisioned
it
whenever
you
don't
have
to
cash
out.
I.
Think
we're
at
that
point
that
there's
several
crypto
credit
cards
III
just
got
one
recently,
I'm,
not
gonna,
say
which
one
because
I
want
to
plug
anything,
but
I
could
basically
put
stable
coins
in
an
account
and
I
could
spend
it
at
any
retail
if
I
want
to
top
it
up.
It
does
like
an
atomic
trade
in
the
background.
A
I
could
sell
some
iOS
or
Bitcoin
into
a
stable
core
and
I
use
it
at
a
POS
system.
I
do
not
need
to
ever
do
an
ACH
withdraw
to
my
checking
account
as
long
as
I
have
enough
money
in
my
checking
account
to
to
do
my
billing.
That
requires
an
ACH
such
as
like
my
mortgage,
then
yeah
I
have
to
use
my
bank
account,
but
all
of
my
daily
spending
is
all
being
done
from
a
crypto
com,
credit
card
I'll
just
say
and
I'm
able
to
earn
on
my
stable
coins.
A
B
And
so
Brock
and
me
and
Jonathan,
created
the
first
crypto
debit
card
in
2014.
We
called
it
blade
and
we
had
deals
with
all
the
major
exchanges
for
them
to
offer
it.
So
you
deposit
your
crypto
into
an
account
like
your
talking
now
and
then
you
could
spend
that
I
think
we
had.
It
was
MasterCard
Network.
We
would
sell
the
crypto
as
you
process
the
transaction.
B
Send
the
dollar
amounts
to
the
merchants,
and
this
is
an
example
of
something
we
were
talking
about
earlier
before
our
interview
here
with
with
timing
like
we
were,
we
were
early
and
people
who
were
figuring
out
how
to
even
what
a
crypto
is,
and
you
know
we
like
for
three
years
we
had
a
little
team
trying
to
do
something,
but
it
was
to
no
avail
and
I
eventually
said.
Look
like
timing
is
right.
2020
I
think
the
timing
is
probably
about
right
and
I'm.
B
B
No
Thurman,
we
spent
about
five
hundred
thousand
dollars
to
come
up
with
the
concept
of
a
crypto
debit
card
to
get
a
deal
with
MasterCard
to
get
some
is
dead
relationships
with
five
exchanges
and
to
fully
develop
the
product.
We
spent
five
hundred
grand
now
tax
raised
eighty
million
dollars
to
do
that
in
2017.
B
I
still,
don't
think
they've
released
it
exactly
it's
it's
silly
right,
critten,
one
of
the
nice
things
about
blockchain
technology,
because
it's
open
source
at
least
for
now
is
you
can
take
these
building
blocks
and,
if
you're
creative,
you
can
stitch
together
stuff
very
effectively
right
now.
One
of
the
things
we've
talked
about
is
how
it's
it's
it
works,
but
it's
clunky
and
I
have
a
phrase.
I
always
use
with
my
team,
which
is
that
consumers
pray
to
the
god
of
convenience.
That
means
when
they
have
a
choice
between
a
okay
so
so
solution.
B
That's
super
easy
or
a
really
wonderful
solution.
That's
hard
they'll
always
take
the
crappy
easy
solution,
and
that
is
that
is
the
biggest
I
think
stumbling
block
crypto
adoption.
It
is
just
not
easy:
it's
not
easy
on
any
freaking
level
from
acquiring
it
to
holding.
You
know,
storing
it
securely
to
participating
in
the
community.
If
you
want
to
be
active
in
the
in
the
governance
like
everything
about
Christa
was
hard
and
we
have
a
lot
more
work
to
do
when.
A
B
A
Getting
to
the
point
where,
like
the
onboarding
for
these,
like
defy
Ops,
that
with
the
collateralized
loans
and
and
getting
interest
on
stable
coins
like
that,
could
literally
be
the
user.
Onboarding
is
okay.
Instead
of
like
two
years
ago
me
telling
you
got
to
buy
this
Bitcoin
then
buy
this
coin
and
then
trade.
That
coin,
like
that's
not
it.
What
you
should
do
is
go
and
coinbase
buy
a
thousand
dollars
of
USD
coin:
stable,
they're,
stable
coin
transfer
it
to
whatever
app
you
like
and
start
earning
on
it.
Just
that's
it
that
that's
that's
crypto!
A
That's
defied
that
that's
beautiful,
like
people
understand
that
it's
like
oh
I,
could
earn
6%
on
my
crypt.
That
would
zero
risk
or
I
guess.
There's,
there's
risk
I
wanna
see,
there's
always
some
counterparty
risk
bits.
It's
it's
getting
better
and
yeah.
It
would
take
a
black
I
guess
it
depends
on
what
platform
we're
talking
about
yeah.
B
Risk
with
US
Treasuries,
so
so
technically
speaking,
of
course,
there's
risk,
but
you
know
to
to
crypto
people
owning
the
most
toxic
subprime
mortgage-backed
security.
That
looks
like
triple-a
rated
paper
right.
You
have
to
also
remember
that
crypto
people's
tolerance
for
volatility
and
risk
is
off
the
charts.
So
I
do
know
when
you,
when
you
mention
things
like
defy
to
people
who
aren't
in
crypto.
They
rightly
do
point
out
like.
Oh,
my
god.
Here
are
all
of
the
bad
things
that
can
happen
and
you
know.
B
But
how
much
do
you
personally
worry
about
Bitcoin,
getting
hacked
I,
gotta,
say
I
kind
of
don't
know
me.
That's
like
a
non
risk,
it's
sort
of
like
it's,
the
US
government
going
to
default
on
its
Treasury
bills.
I
guess:
there's
a
theoretical
risk
there,
but
we
don't
acknowledge
it,
and
so
that's
that's
another
sort
of
tribal
element
of
crypto
people
right,
there's
like
things
we've
to
us,
sha-256
is
like
man.
You
know
that's
like
okay,
great
but
yeah,
all
right.
B
If
there's
there's
always
risks
but
I
think
often
the
the
non
crypto
people,
maybe
overemphasize
the
things
that
we
all
know
can
be
fixed
from
a
technical
standpoint.
I
mean
the
biggest
risk
long-term
of
any
of
these
Kryptos
is
its
fatigue
in
the
holders
who
are
kind
of
tired
from
waiting
waiting
waiting
for
the
mass
adoption
to
take
hold
I.
A
Think
we
talked
about
this
earlier.
Everyone
always
thinks
things
are
gonna
happen
sooner
than
they
do
and
I
think
that's.
What
we're
seeing
here
is
this
burnout.
Everyone
well
they're,
ready
to
weather
the
bear
market,
but
then
things
went
up.
They
got
optimistic,
they
maybe
even
bought
more
leveraged
up
and
then,
whenever
it
went
down
further
it's
just
like
and
then
like
you
eventually
lose
solvency.
Some
people
do
solvency
throughout
that.
It's
it's
like
it's
it's
it's.
B
A
marathon
man
I,
don't
know
how
to
play
it
is
you
must?
You
must
manage
the
amount
of
your
total
network,
that's
exposed
to
crypto
mm-hmm.
Now,
if
you've
got
1%
5%
your
total
net
worth
exposed
to
crypto
I
mean
you
shouldn't
like
worry
about
the
daily
price
movements
right,
it's
just
like.
What's
the
long-term
likelihood,
you've
made
a
decision,
you
want
to
hold
it
great.
If,
on
the
other
hand,
you
got
50
percent
of
your
net
worth,
you
know
to
me,
I'd
say
that's
too
much
exposure.
B
A
B
I
would
like
there
to
be
more
capacity
for
more
people
to
participate
in
these.
These
defy
instruments,
because
you
know
relative
to
let's
say
us
bondholders
or
even
you
know,
you
know,
people
who
are
gold,
there's
very
little,
there's
very
scarce
amount
of
this
stuff.
You
can
actually
get
into
we
I
read
somewhere
where
someone
thought
they'd
be
a
hundred
billion
dollars
worth
of
defy
assets
like
in
a
year
or
two
I
I,
don't
see
any
chance
of
that
happening,
but
that
would
be
a
number
where
you
can
start
to
have
bigger
institutions
participate.
B
A
A
A
A
Though
so
up
skins
is
a
huge
huge
company
and
its
peak
I'm
not
sure
that
I
have
numbers
in
front
of
me.
I
guess
you
could
nod
your
head.
If
they're
Achatz,
though
10
million
plus
customer
accounts
a
hundred
thousand
plus
users
a
month,
2
million
dollars
of
daily
transactions,
200
million
plus
total
purchases-
this
is
ops
skins.
You
want
to
kind
of
give
like
the
elevator.
B
B
So
the
and
and
the
roots
of
this
are
really
an
IgE,
so
jonathan
Yantis,
my
and
Brock's
partner,
invented
the
concept
of
buying
video
game
virtual
items
with
Fiat
with
money
and
he
realized.
There
was
a
lot
of
people
who
wanted
to
do
that.
After
a
few
years
of
building
up
his
business,
he
teamed
up
at
Brock
and
then
they
were
able
to
combine
a
lot
of
different
skills
that
each
team
had
to
build
a
very
big
business,
and
this
was
during
the
2000s
when
the
video
game
companies
outside
of
the
u.s.
B
B
B
It
allows
you
to
do
a
thing
in
a
game
and
to
me
that
meant
there
would
be
a
natural
limit
to
how
big
market
could
be
because
anything
consumers
buy
where
they're
buying
it
for
a
purpose,
a
utility,
a
toaster,
a
lawnmower,
a
hairdryer.
You
need
one
of
them,
that's
a
rule
right.
You
need
one
rake,
one
shovel
whatever,
and
then
it
wears
out.
So
that
market
was
about
ten
billion
dollars
globally.
B
The
secondary
market
for
trading
virtual
items,
and
then
we
got
into
crypto
and
we
sort
of
were
like
all
right,
we're
sort
of
done
with
this
market.
It's
like
as
big
as
it's
gonna,
be
it's
steady,
Eddy
whatever
and
then
in
2015
I
started
getting
exposed
to
skins.
A
skin
is
a
virtual
item
in
a
game
that
has
no
purpose
in
game.
B
B
B
So
we
we
thought
what,
if
we
could
marry
these
skins
in
crypto-
and
you
know
ERC
20s
hadn't
been
invented
yet
and
so
through
him
hadn't
been
released
yet,
but
we
we
went
about
to
build
a
new
marketplace
for
trading
virtual
items
and
these
skins
and
then
I,
put
on
my
venture
hat
and
I
was
like
wait
a
minute.
Why
are
we
building
this?
There's?
Probably
someone
who's
already
done
it,
and
we
came
across
a
guy
named
John
bit
cheesy
who
had
started
a
company
called
Hopkins,
and
so
we
approached
him.
B
We
said
we
love
what
you're
doing
your
your
marketplace
is
really
well
designed.
The
reasons
you
might
not
even
appreciate
here
is
how
we
can
help
or
investors
blah
blah
blah
and
little
by
little.
We
wound
up
not
only
giving
him
money,
but
we
wound
up
actually
becoming
the
management
of
the
company,
and
so
as
we
did,
that
we
were,
we
were
doing
a
lot
of
crypto
related
stuff.
B
We
became
the
biggest
e-commerce
site
that
accepted
crypto
people
buying
and
selling
virtual
items
and
something
that
we'd
never
been
able
to
do
when
we
had
ige
was
to
open
the
entire
world
to
buying
on
our
marketplace
and
the
reason
is
most
e-commerce
companies
they
redline
about
40%
of
the
world,
because
you
can't
trust
the
credit
cards
from
those
countries,
because
it's
all
fraud,
we
don't
really
need
to
read
line
anybody,
and
so
we
started
to
say
use
Bitcoin
by
the
way
to
us.
It
was
like
look
how
easy
it
is.
B
It
took
a
long
time
for
them
to
figure
out
how
to
use
it,
but
once
they
realized,
hey,
I
cannot
buy
anything
from
this
site
unless
I
use
Bitcoin,
they
figured
out
how
to
use
Bitcoin.
So
you
know
the
use
case
for
Bitcoin
back
in
2015-16
when
people
were
saying.
Oh,
it
has
no
use.
I
was
like
wow
you.
You
understand
nothing
about
credit
card
charge
bags,
it
really
is
wonderful.
B
I
did
a
video
the
other
day
after
Mark
Zuckerberg
completely
blew
his
opportunity
to
educate
Congress
about
the
value
of
a
stable
coin
and
and
basically
a
stable
coin
is
like
a
gift
from
God.
There
is
really
it's
hard
to
come
up
with
any
reason
why
a
stable
coin
is
not
a
net
positive
for
for
consumers.
B
Zuckerberg
was
not
educated
enough
about
it
to
really
explain
it,
which
killed
me
right,
because
Congress
came
away
thinking.
We
don't
like
stable
coins
when,
in
fact,
if
you
like
consumers,
if
you
want
to
open
up
Africa
and
other
countries,
other
continents
to
the
global
payment
networks,
stable
coins
is
the
way
to
do
it.
So
we
we
we
kind
of
blended
virtual
item
trading
and
crypto
the
benefits
of
both,
which
also
led
us
to
think
wow.
B
What
we
really
need
is
a
dedicated
blockchain
that
allows
people
to
easily
trade
virtual
items
and
just
like
happened
with
tether
when
we
first
started
floating
the
idea
of
wax
people
said.
Why
do
you
need
a
dedicated
blockchain?
Why
can't
you
use
fill-in-the-blank
Bitcoin
is
there
in
both
of
us
right
and
so
two
crypto
people
were
like.
B
Well,
because
the
consensus
mechanism
is
really
slow
or
the
cost
is
really
bad
and
proofs
work
doesn't
work
and
da
da
da,
but
is
we
all
know
if
you're
not
in
crypto
you're
like
they
all
look
the
same,
so
you
know
we
I,
remember
being
out
there
in
2017
talking
to
people
that
I
thought
the
biggest
driver
of
consumer
usage
of
barton's
would
be
video
games,
and
you
know
people
weren't
were
open-minded.
They
were
like
wow
really
because
they
knew
nothing
about
virtual
item
trading.
B
B
The
reality
we
did
initially
because
we
had
me
oversee
20,
we
tried
before
dan,
had
released
heosu
in
June
2018.
We
were
using
a
a
private
ethereum
blockchain,
where
we
were
running
all
the
nodes,
and
you
know
what
it
was
still
slowest
I
think
it
still
was
really
hard
to
use
and
an
EOS
when,
when
he
oh
scheme,
it's
such
the
right
time,
because
we
then
had
moved
over
to
the
ethereum
main
net
and
then.
B
Similar,
so
we
went
from
it
taking
90
seconds
to
create
an
NF
t
on
etherium
and
about
20
cents
to
to
transfer
it
to
about
forty
dollars
to
create
I
am
17
hours
to
transfer
it.
Wow
and
I
told
the
guys
the
team
I
said
we
will
be
out
of
business
in
seven
days.
If
we
don't
just
go
to
a
pre-alpha
version
of
EOS,
which
is
what
we
did
and
in
seven
days
we
got
on
to
a
alpha
version
of
wax
using
the
boss,
and
it
was
unbelievable.
A
I'll
never
forget
you
guys
were
the
first
yo
CEO,
besides
the
main
that
I'm
pretty
sure
you're
the
first
SiO
chain
to
announce,
because
at
that
time
we
are
all
drinking
the
air
drop
kool-aid.
Thinking
like
everyone
was
entitled
to
air
drops
for
everything
on
EIS
and
I.
Remember
when
waxers
announces
like
what
they
have
a
distribution
set
already
and
they're,
not
honoring
the
ears,
maenette
snapshot.
That's
you
guys
have
come
a
long
way
now
you're
like
the
most
loved
blockchain,
with
all
the
apps
moving
over.
B
Each
other
tell
you
one
of
the
things
I
have
loved
about,
iou's
is
and-
and
we've
been
fortunate
because,
as
we
all
know,
in
the
helos
community
block,
one
made
some
mistakes,
they
neglected
some
of
the
community.
We
had
these
issues
with
I
want
to
be
a
block
producer,
you
know,
is
it
fair
and
how
do
I
become
a
block
producer
and
so
much
talent
in
the
EOS
ecosystem
and
talent
that
wants
to
like
deploy
and
see
its
creations
in
operation?
And
so
there
is
today
I.
B
B
Proof
of
work
as
a
consensus
mechanism-
and
you
know
when
I
first
started,
to
really
embrace
what
Dan
was
doing
with
with
videos
before
he
launched.
I
I
was
sort
of
like
a
biased
in
the
sense
because
we
had
been
like
we
were
the
second
biggest
buyers
of
etherium
in
the
etherium
crowd
sale.
We
were
big
believers
because
we
had
been
the
biggest
buyers
of
master
coin
and
all
the
guys
from
master
going,
create.
B
And
our
bias
was
like
you
know:
well,
it's
super
super
secure,
it's
Byzantine
fault,
tolerant
and
blah
blah
blah,
and
so
I
was
of
the
view
that
you
know
heõs
is
faster
but
I'm,
sacrificing
the
shift
on
security.
I'll
tell
you.
I
do
not
believe
that
anymore
I
mean
the
fact
that
you
can
have
20
busy
nodes
on
a
theory
are
Neos
and
one
is
not,
and
your
chain
still
operates.
That's
super
impressive,
so
I,
as
you
know,
this
stuff
becomes,
it
almost
becomes
a
religious
battle.
B
When
you
go
to
a
reddit
forum
where
there's
a
bunch
of
etherion
people
and
they
will
be
apoplectic
about
how
aetherium
is
more
secure,
there's
more
scary
and
then
you
know,
people
like
me
will
go
and
say
well,
on
the
one
hand,
on
the
other
hand
right,
it's
not
clear
that
aetherium
is
more
secure
and
and
they
will
just
go
nuts
but
see
I.
Look
at
and
my
partners
and
I
look
at
blockchain
from
a
very
novel
perspective.
B
It's
sad
that
it's
novel,
but
it
is
we
look
at
it
as
operators,
we
operate
a
business
on
a
blockchain.
Who
else
does
that?
But
seriously
like
almost
no
one,
actually
operates
a
real
business
on
watching?
So
when
we
were
had
all
of
our
transactions
from
Vigo
and
viral
to
early
NF
teams,
we
developed
on
the
ethereum
blockchain
I
was
like
don't
lecture
us
about,
what's
needed
to
make
this
work
guys,
because
most
of
you
are
a
clown
show
building
little
like,
like
my.
B
It's
like
we're
putting
hundreds
of
millions
of
freaking
dollars
on
this
stuff.
You
know
we,
our
customers,
expect
a
certain
level
of
operational
scale
and
aetherium
well.
Well,
let's
face
it
with
with
the
virions
latest
announcements
about
their
roadmap:
hey
they've
called
uncle
they're,
going
with
proof
of
stake.
Finally,
and
I've
written
about
this
look,
best-case
aetherium
proof
of
stake
happens
at
the
end
of
2023
and
I,
really
think
that's
best
case.
B
I
think
it's
2025
I
also
believe
that
by
the
time
Casper
or
whatever
the
what
is
beacon,
beacon
chain,
I
think
is
what
they
called
them.
If
they're
in
2.0,
by
the
time
that
is
deployed
it's
sort
of
like
we
designed
the
f-35
jet
in
the
1980s
Floyd
in
2010.
So
by
the
time
it's
deployed
its
30-year
old
Theriault,
the
the
way
that
that
aetherium
is
designed,
it's
a
group
of
stake,
I
believe,
will
be
outdated
by
the
time
it's
operationally
deployed.
B
I
also
believe
you
know
they
have
this,
this
horrible
conundrum
of
of
an
installed
base
of
dabs.
That
probably
are
perfectly
happy
with
proof
of
work.
So
what
I
actually
think
is
gonna
happen?
Is
it's
gonna
be
a
hard
fork,
I.
Think
very
few
of
the
gaps
are
gonna
fork
over.
Are
they
going
to
all
want
to
redo
their
there
they're
smart
contracts,
probably
not
so.
A
B
B
A
B
And
remember:
there
are
no
transactions,
I
mean
I,
say
that
kind
of
tongue-in-cheek.
But
but
let
me
put
it
this
way
when
we
were
testing
wax
with
the
etherium.
It
was
a
private
chain,
but
we
were.
We
were
throwing
a
bunch
of
like
experimental
entities
on
it.
We
were
doing
like
six
million
transactions
a
day
by
the
way
that
that
translates
to
about
40
million
operations
right
Coverity
is
his
operations.
I
think
transactions
is
actually
more
of
a
better
metric,
but
anyway
aetherium
was
doing
a
couple
of
hundred
thousand
transact
even
today.
B
What
is
it?
Nine
hundred
thousand
transactions
a
day
I
mean
I
mean
it
is
if
you
ever
go
to
something
called
black
tivity
that
ranks
blockchain
projects
by
the
number
of
transactions
or
operations.
What
you
see
well,
one
thing
you
see
first,
is
that
it's
like
the
top
list
is
all
deepest
based
change.
Surprisingly,
because
that's
the
only
way
you
get
transaction
volume,
but
then
you
got
like
etherium
and
Bitcoin
there,
but
they're
they're,
they're
minor
amounts
of
transactions,
so
you
are
them.
B
The
miners
today
would
mostly
abandon
those
projects
unless
the
transaction
fees
were
much
higher.
Okay,
but
if
their
transaction
fees
are
much
higher,
people
are
not
gonna
want
to
use
it
because
alternatives
like
us
are
there
I,
don't
know,
therefore
well
Bitcoin
will
probably
always
stay
proof
of
work,
but
but
post-2020
for
basically,
there
won't
really
be
much
more
inflation.
B
A
The
worst
part
is
the
miners
themselves.
Their
margins.
Aren't
that
big.
So
it's
not
like
they're
stacking
sacks
here.
So
whenever
aetherium
goes
to
proof
of
stake,
that's
why
I
say
the
miners
might
not
be
the
biggest
holders
because
with
proof
of
work,
you're
paying
electricity
costs
you
you
keep
some
of
the
profit,
but
that's
where
it's
going.
A
B
A
B
Areum
is
when
cerium
was
being
developed
and
again
we
came
from
it
from
from
version
like
1.0,
which
was
master
going.
My
view
and
I
think
most
of
the
people
I
knew,
who
were
part
of
the
crowd
said
was
this
was
I,
don't
want
to
be
pejorative,
but
this
was
like
a
test
net
like
etherium
wasn't
really
designed
to
scale.
It
was
like,
let's
see
see
if
we
can
put
an
intelligent
layer
on
watching,
let's
see
if
we
can
actually
do
what
Nick
sasebo
was
talking
about.
B
Let's
see
if
we
can
actually
do
smart
contracts
and
it
really
wasn't
designed
to
scale
and
I
think
what
happened
was
maybe
I'm
paying
playing
psychiatrist
at
this
point.
I
think
Vitalik
got
so
wrapped
personally
around
aetherium
from
like
a
a
reputational
standpoint
that
look
at
the
talaq
and
aetherium
versus
dan
Larimer.
So
the
reason
I
have
such
great
respect
for
Dan
is:
nobody
on
earth
has
created
more
operational,
blockchains
and
Dan
sound-up
funny
the
etherium
and
the
bitcoin
guys
say:
Oh
Dan
always
abandons
his
projects,
I'm
like
no
guys
he's
doing
prototypes.
B
B
Broke
one
tradition
which
I
loved
I
know
if
you
remember
his
tradition,
but
I
think
it
was
a
proto
shares
and
he
went
to
bitshares
and
what
did
he
do?
People
are
like
you're
leaving,
and
he
said
yes
but
I'm
air-dropping,
you
guys
who
owned
the
old
token
the
new
token,
and
then
he
did
that
with
the
next
token
and
the
token
would
actually
like
you
said
it
would
go
higher,
we're
on
it.
Whoo-Hoo-Hoo
we're
gonna
get
this
new
token,
plus
we
like
the
old
token.
B
I
think
my
list,
sometimes
people
say
me:
why
don't
you
all
over
telegram
and
I'm?
Like
guys?
Have
you
ever
like
considered,
like
the
all
of
the
risk
elements
of
of
saying
things,
just
like
the
way
you
might
send
a
text
message
to
a
crowd?
It's
like
you.
You
would
have
to
put
so
many
caveats,
mm-hmm
that
it
gets
exhausting,
and
so
we
do
what
most
people
doing
companies
we
just
issued
press
releases,
our
blog
post
or
whatever
it
is
I
wish
it
wasn't
the
way.
A
B
About
wax,
we
created
a
block
chain
that
would
allow
us
to
make
it
very
easy
for
people
to
create
and
to
buy
and
sell,
and
if
what
we
now
call
NF,
T's
or
virtual
items,
and
that
that
is
involves
a
whole
bunch
of
stuff.
But
mostly
it's.
The
chain,
of
course,
has
to
be
fast
and
low-cost,
st
passe.
The
ability
to
interact
with
the
chain
cannot
be
freaking,
meta,
masks
or,
frankly,
even
scatter.
It's
got
to
be
much
easier,
wax
cloud
wallet.
You
know
social
log,
ons
love
it
right
back
and
forth.
B
A
Other
piece
is
making
it
as
easy
as
possible,
so
one
of
the
coolest
things
about
wax
is
you
got
the
microservices
layer,
so
you
have
all
of
these
services
and
api's
that
are
available
to
developers.
Now
you
have
the
dap
network
that
developers
can
plug
in
also
all
sitting
on
top
of
the
wax
blockchain
so
that
they
don't
have
to
do
things
like.
What
do
you
have
like
a
random
number
generator?
You
have
an
account
system,
the
express
trade
api,
which
I
don't
have
any
notes
on
my
bullet
points
here,
but.
B
B
You
know
we
all
stand
on
the
shoulders
of
giants
in
this
space
and
I
I
believe
that
that
the
best
as
I
mentioned,
the
best
consumer
like
onboarding
process
for
crypto,
really
is
NF.
T's
virtual
item
trading,
since
there's
hundreds
of
millions
of
people
across
the
world
who
already
do
that
and
because
we
all
know
being
a
blockchain
based
item,
makes
it
much
much
safer.
Then
it
would
be
if
it
were
just
some
virtual
item
in
a
database
somewhere.
So
those
things
make
it
me
caught.
B
This
is
going
to
be
a
way
to
mass
on
board
and
by
the
way
you
know
we
probably
got
what
four
hundred
fifty
thousand
new
accounts.
So
far
since
we
launched
the
wax
rod
law
like
two
months
ago,
it
took
us
like
a
year
plus
year
and
a
half
to
get
to
a
million
five
accounts,
and
this
is
just
because
it's
easy-
and
these
are
not
like
Tron
fake
accounts.
Right
represents.
A
The
granny
test
I
think
the
wax
cloud.
Well,
it
handy
I
mean
your
grandma's
to
know
to
use
a
phone,
let's
say
that,
but
if
she
could
use
a
smart
phone,
she
could
sign
up
for
wax
Konev.
If
your
grandma
has
a
Facebook
account,
you
share
pictures
with
her.
She
could
easily
have
a
wax
cloud
account
and
like
the
future
of
n
of
T.
So
let's
end
this
with
like
some
mind-blowing
stuff,
like
you've,
proven
you've
got
like
vast
experience
and
stable
coins,
and
it
well
n
ft
is
before
there
enough
T's.
B
We've
talked
about
something
called
D
Phi,
which
is
a
way
to
monetize
your
your
assets
right
we've
been
experimenting
with
doing
that
with
real
world
consumer
products,
creating
digital
twins,
the
real
world
consumer
products
like
your
dear
sneakers
right
and
putting
them
in
a
crypto
I
to
crypto
people.
It's
so
easy
to
explain.
I,
say
we're
doing
tether
for
sneakers
they're
like
oh,
you
know
get
it.
B
B
That
has
a
lot
of
value
because
it's
scarce
and
desirable
for
a
game,
and
then
you
can
monetize
that
in
different
ways
that
to
me
is
not
something
you
could
do
with
traditional
virtual
items
and
since
you
can't
do
it
traditional
virtual
items,
it's
not
going
to
happen
in
the
video
game
marketplace,
it's
going
to
happen
in
blockchain
and
it's
not
gonna
happen
with
big
video
game
items.
Big
video
game
companies
migrating
to
the
blockchain.
This
comes
from
my
years
of
it
as
a
VC.
It
never
works
that
way.
B
A
B
I
got
involved
in
up
in
an
Internet
in
1995,
my
partner's
I
created
the
world's
first
consumer
internet
venture
capital
fund.
It
was
called
idea
of
capital
partners
also
the
first
incubator
very
successful,
but
I
saw
this
in
spades.
Our
first
30
deals
were
ecommerce
companies,
but
none
of
those
involved,
existing
retailers
or
even
existing
mail-order
catalog
companies.
They
just
were
like.
Why
would
we
need
this?
It
works
well
now
right,
look
at
what
happened
with
mobile.
B
B
A
What
about
I
was
thinking
about
this
with
NF
t,
so
whenever
you're
talking
ones
with
massive
value
and
let's
say
the
thousands
of
dollars
where
it
would
make
sense
like
Collateral
back
so
I'm
part
of
vigor
dak.
So
we
do
we're
like
trying
to
build
a
decentralized
stable
coin.
Neos,
there's
also
equilibrium.
Neos
I
mean
there's
maker
Dow,
which
is
the
most
famous
one.
A
So
all
these
systems,
where
your
collateralizing
a
highly
liquid
asset,
so
that's
the
most
important
piece
is
like
if
your
collateralizing,
iOS
or
etherium,
you
have
all
that
liquidity,
but
with
NF
tees,
especially
if
they're
rare,
like
very
rare
and
there's
only
maybe
five
of
them.
How
do
you
or
do
you
have
a
solution
for
this?
In
the
back
your
mind,
liquidity
for
a
rare
item
like
that,
so
that
you
can
collateralize
it
well.
B
B
Right
now,
when
I
compare
this
to
the
etherium
based
entities,
those
are
like:
there's
no
liquidity
there
and
the
reason
you
we
used
to
give
video
game
companies,
basically
a
cookbook
that
was
18
elements
that
they
needed
to
incorporate
in
their
video
game
to
make
theirs
the
secondary
market
of
their
items.
Valuable,
because
we
wanted
to
promote
this
because
we
hope
you
freedom
and
it
came
from
our
learnings,
the
the
etherion
based
entities,
probably
the
real
world
entities
today
are
they've
got
two
or
three
of
those
elements
and
and
I
do
get
annoyed.
B
When
I
hear
people
say
often
BCS
say
well,
I've
got
a
you
know,
these
entities
are
rare
and
they
look
pretty.
They
must
be
valuable.
You
know,
that's
got
nothing
to
do
with
it.
There's
a
whole
bunch
of
underlying
economic
factors
that
drive
value
in
an
NF,
T
or
virtual
item,
and
those
things
have
not
been
fully
developed
in
crypto
yet,
and
so
you
know,
the
closest
we've
come
to
is
is
Vigo
where
you
know
those
items
and
viral
to
n
of
T's.
B
B
I
think
those
are
going
nowhere
they
just
they
they,
because
the
items
are
not
worth
anything
and
the
items
aren't
worth
anything
because
just
being
rare
and
pretty
doesn't
make
a
thing
valuable
and
we
hope
to
start
to
push
the
other
elements
that
will
make
this
thing
valuable,
but
I.
Think
even
the
euro
scheme
community
doesn't
fully
appreciate
what's
needed,
but
you
are
right
without
the
liquidity
that
comes
from
a
very
active
market
that
wants
to
acquire
that
NFT
it
does.
B
A
I
I'm
just
thinking
out
loud,
like
I,
guess
if
there
is
a
counterparty
involved,
that
would
maybe
like
add
a
Kurd
or
a
traditional
company
like
they
decide
like
which
NFT
czar,
collateralized
double
and
then
then
it
could
potentially
work.
Because
then,
if
there's
no
liquidity
like
they
just
kind
of
hold
the
asset
until
there
is
or
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
could
happen,
you.
B
Know
when
we
first
did
tether,
let
me
finish
with
this:
I
had
a
theory
and
I
was
wrong,
but
it
seemed
very
logical
to
me
so
I
thought
that
the
value
of
tether
should
not
be
a
dollar.
Each
tether
was
was
redeemable
for
a
dollar,
but
I
did
not
think
that
was
that
what
I
thought
was
it
had
a
floor
of
a
dollar
because
it's
redeemable
for
dollar,
but
tether
was
just
think
about
it
as
like
a
a
fork
of
a
Bitcoin
right.
B
So
you
get
all
the
benefits
of
Bitcoin,
but
you
also
get
this
little
package
which
is
redeemable
for
a
dollar,
so
I
kind
of
thought.
Well,
it
doesn't
have
a
brand
of
a
Bitcoin
but
I
kind
of
thought.
It
should
trade
roughly
what
litecoin
trades
yeah
it's
like
it's
a
poor
man's
bitcoins,
but
it's
got
a
buck
splits
and
trade
at
litecoin,
plus
a
dollar-
and
you
know
my
financial
markets.
Background
said
to
me
that
it's
like
an
embedded
auction.
B
It's
like
that's
what
it
should
trade
for
and
then
my
two
partners
said
it
will
trade
for
a
dollar
man
and
I
said
but
you're,
giving
them
Bitcoin
or,
like
coin
plus
a
dollar.
So
it's
got
the
utility
of
light
coin
plus
a
dollar,
so
it
should
and
sure
it
trades
for
dollar
and
decided.
The
reason
for
that
is
a
price
discovery
is
amazingly
intricate,
difficult
thing
to
figure
out
when
you
first
put
something
out
there.
What
should
the
price
be?
B
If
you
give
the
consumer
any
hint
at
what
it
should
be,
they
just
shortcut
it
and
say
that's
what
it's
gonna
be
man,
fine,
it's
a
buck
right,
so
n
MTS
do
have
this
problem.
Initially,
there's
not
price
discovery,
so
you
are
right.
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
counterparty
that
that
sort
of
says
I'm
willing
to
value
this
at
X
and.
A
I
love
this
conversation
because
it's
just
like
my
wheels
are
spinning.
So
like
the
game
developer,
who
creates
the
NFT
could
like
set
like
everyone
kryptos
familiar
with
a
burn,
they
can
set
up
a
burn
contract
it
at
the
very
minimum.
This
nft
is
worth
whatever
you
can
burn
it
for
and
get
a
Redemption
on
it.
You're.
A
B
I
think
you,
what
you
will
see
is,
after
it
took
a
long
time
to
build
this
stuff.
The
service
layer,
you're
gonna,
see
us
basically
marketing
the
capabilities
of
the
service
layer,
all
those
really
nice
things
in
the
developer
hub
that
you
can
go
plug
into
with
api's
and
do
stuff
like
very
easily
on
board
people
and
so
forth,
as
prospectors
did
very
well.
You're
gonna
see
us
going
out
to
larger
companies
that
maybe
aren't
crypto
like
aware
yet,
and
hopefully
we'll
have
some
announcements
around
that.
B
Where
we're
getting
those
types
of
companies
to
see
who
have
kind
of
tried
to
do
with
their
iam
and
said
this
doesn't
work
and
we're
going
and
saying
you're
right.
It
doesn't.
But
this
does
trust
us
and
so,
and
what
I'm
trying
to
do
is
bring
mainstream
adoption
of
the
deepest
consensus
mechanism
to
a
broader
audience
in
2020
and,
like
I,
said
I
kind
of
feel
like
aetherium,
they
threw
in
the
towel
on
there.
You
know
proof
of
work.
They
they
sort
of
acknowledge
what
Dan
Larimer
is
known,
which
is
you
know.
B
The
consensus
mechanism
has
to
be
some
sort
of
proof
of
stake
and
in
order
to
get
big
big
companies,
ultimately
you
don't
need
it
to.
You
can't
tell
guys
well,
it's
gonna
take
about
15
minutes
for
this
thing
to
resolve.
So
it's
a
lot
of
like
outward-bound
work,
proselytizing,
I,
guess
I
would
like
aetherium
the
army
Neos
to
do
more
of
that.
But
you
know
a
block.
One
has
not
seemed
terribly
interested
in
that.
Maybe
we'll
see
more
with
with
voice.
A
Yeah
I'm
interested
to
see
what
they
end
up,
allowing
with
voice
ID
like
the
interoperability
of
it,
to
be
able
to
tap
into
that,
so
that
you
don't
have
to
do
a
kyc.
If
all
you
want
to
know
if
you're
not
doing
banking
or
anything-
and
all
you
want
to
know-
is
that
this
person's
got
one
account,
you
don't
really
need
the
AML
aspect
of
it
like
if
you
could
tap
into
that
voice.
Id
I
hope
you
could
do
that
from
day.
One,
but
well,
it'll
definitely
happen
eventually.
I
do.
B
A
Yeah,
alright,
so
I
think
it's
been
a
little
over
an
hour.
I
really
really
appreciate
your
time.
William.
It
was
great
going
down
all
these
different
rabbit
holes
from
defy
to
OG
tethered
days
to
NFT
trading
before
NFT
was
a
word
before
crypt.
That
was
even
a
thing.
It
was
really
fun
to
have
you
on
I
hope
to
have
you
on
again.