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From YouTube: Cryptonet Lab 2022 - Irene Giacomelli
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A
Thank
you
for
the
introduction,
so
I'm
Irena
from
cryptonets
and
I'm
going
to
go
deep
dive
in
a
project.
That
was
one
of
the
focus
for
our
team
during
last
year,
and
it
will
also
will
continue
working
on
this
next
year,
and
so
the
question
that
was
the
motivation
for
for
this
project
is
how
we
can
guarantee
retrieval
from
decentralized
Storage
Network
and
as
if
you
remember
one
talk,
we
want
a
solution
that
is
web
scale
and
can
allow
to
onboard
unbounded
amount
of
data.
A
Okay,
so
something
that
really
scale
well
and
it's
efficient,
and
let
me
start
with
a
bit
of
contest.
I
know
that
you
all
know
about
over
here,
but
it's
it's
nice
to
to
recall
this.
We
have
a
network
of
storage
providers
that
work
in
this
simple
way.
Clients
can
send
a
file
to
many
providers,
they
store
and
they
have
a
primitive
that,
let's
call
late,
energetic,
wake,
a
proof
of
storage
that
can
be
used
from
the
provider
to
prove
publicly
to
the
client
actually
publicly
to
to
everyone
that
the
storage
service
was
provider.
A
And
this
proof
now
it's
also
the
key
to
get
the
payment.
Could
be
Block
Level
could
be
a
their
payment,
but
it's
it's
the
key
that
enabled
for
an
easy
way
to
incentivize
storage
right.
This
is
a
very
high
level
how
ficon
works
and
this
proof
actually
five
coins,
the
window
post
right.
We
all
know
this.
When
you
go
to
the
retrieval
phase
of
of
storing
data,
there
is
not
an
equivalent
right.
Retriever
right
now
is
just
assumed
that
some
provider
is
honest
and
we
serve
the
data.
There
is
not
really
incentive.
A
We
have
seen
this
right.
We
are
yet
because
of
this
problem,
so
we
we
call
this
problem
the
data
retrievability
problem
and
why
it's
complicated
from
let's
say
from
a
research
point
of
view,
because
you
don't
don't
have
the
equivalent
of
proof
of
storage.
So
there
is
not
a
proof
of
delivery.
At
least
we
don't
know
how
to
do
in
a
simple
way
of
proof
of
delivery,
because
if
you
have
the
proof
of
delivery,
then
you
can
use
that
in
the
similar
way.
A
As
you
use
the
profile,
storage
and
Problem
Solver,
but
there
is
no
proof
of
delivery
is
actually
from
the
research
point
of
view.
We
can
prove
that
it's
impossible
to
design
a
proof
of
delivery,
because
if
you
have
proof
of
delivery,
we
have
a
fair
exchange
and
we
know
that
FedEx
change
without
trust
assumptionism
is
impossible.
A
A
Some
practical
trust
assumptions
so
who
can
help
us
to
get
to
solve
the
data
relative
ability
problem
is,
of
course
you
can
have
a
blockchain
and
that
just
published
the
data
on
on
chain,
if
you
think
for
a
second,
this
is
the
data
viability
for
layer
2
for
roll
ups.
What
is
really
doing
so?
If
you
really
want
some
data
to
be
available,
just
publish
on
I
don't
know
ethereum
with
some
sharding
or
or
elastic
right,
so
that
are
there
for
sure,
but
this
is
not
web
scale.
A
So
this
is
not
something
you
can
use
for
the
kind
of
storage
data
storage
that
we
are
focusing
here
with
the
file
coin.
Another
solution
that
it's
around
is
proof
of
reliability.
Preferability
is
a
Primitives
that
you
can
think
about
it
as
I
check
your
storage
frequently,
and
this
proof
they
don't
just
show
me
that
the
storage
is
this:
the
slow,
slowly
lick
the
data
so
gives
you
retrievability,
because
linking
the
data
give
you
retrievability,
but
this
is
really
right.
Now,
it's
still
slow.
A
Maybe
research
will
will
improve
this,
but
right
now
it's
not
something
that
we
we
can
use
at
scale.
So
the
third
option
here
it's
to
talk
about
what
we
call
the
retrievability
oracle.
So
this
is
somehow
a
third
party
behind
the
client
and
the
provider.
We
have
this
Oracle
that
we
can
use
as
a
semi-trusted
party
that
can
we
can
ask
help
in
case
that
the
retrieval
service
is
not
provided.
I'll
explain
more.
This
is
actually
the
solution
we
we
try
to
implement.
A
So
I'll
explain
more
about
what
this
means,
how
we
implemented
the
retrievability
Oracle
idea
is
this
with
the
what
we
call
the
retrieval
pinning
protocol
and
the
idea
is
that
we
have
separate
Network
small
now
for
one
we
have
five
nodes
only,
but
in
principle
you
can
scale
these
five
nodes.
That's
because
we
have
a
test
phase
of
this,
but
in
future
we
can
we
can
we
can.
A
We
can
scale
hopefully-
and
these
are
how
our
referees-
our
we
don't-
need
to
trust
all
of
the
net
of
the
node
in
the
net.
Of
course.
For
now,
for
example,
we
need
to
trust
a
majority
future
work.
We
may
even
trust
me.
We
even
maybe
need
to
trust
death,
then
also
we
have
the
client,
the
providers
and
delivering
nectar
and
then
what
they
interact
via
Smart
contract.
So
the
interaction
between
these
three
parties
is
going
to
happen
thanks
to
a
Smart
contract.
A
The
clients
use
this
Mass
contract
to
create
a
deal
proposal,
so
there
is
a
function
that
created
this
deal
proposed
that
the
deal
proposal
is
about
the
retrievability,
so
I
want
to
store
this
data
and
with
retrievability
service
for
this
time
and
for
for
for
a
period
of
time
and
with
other
information
providers
can
accept
thanks
to
the
acceptable
function
and
then
the
client
can
ask
the
retrieve
the
referee
Oracle
help
using
Create
appeal,
okay,
so
this
is
where
the
the
referees
will
get
activated.
Otherwise,
it's
only
between
the
provider
and
clients.
A
A
A
They
agree
on
the
duration,
so
I'm
going
to
provide
this
for
one
month
one
year,
and
then
there
is
these
two
values:
tokens
in
tokens:
the
payment
that
they
call
lateral.
Okay,
the
payment
is
the
usual
payment
for
the
service
that
is
locked
down
in
the
contract.
The
second
value
of
the
collateral
is
this
is
kind
of
the
the
the
new
one
that
is,
the
the
the
deposit.
Somehow
the
collateral
that
the
provider
has
to
do
is
locket
down
the
contract
and
it
will
be
the
Assurance.
A
A
Storage
deals.
No,
so
this
is
separate
now
because
this
is,
you
know,
a
smart
contract
on
an
AVM
compatible
It's
Not
actors
on
five
coin.
Yet
once
it
could
be
could
be
yeah
yeah.
It
could
be
all
together.
Why
not
actually
yeah
yeah
so
how
it
works.
The
the
the
if
there
is
a
problem
at
some
point.
So
if
the
client
is
not
happy
with
the
retrieval
service
from
the
provider,
what
they
go,
they
do,
they
call
the
create
appeal
function
and
they
activate
the
referees.
A
They
activate
they
referees
to
try
to
completely
check
the
provider.
Why?
It's
not?
Why
is
not
providing
the
service?
Basically
the
providers?
We
have
like
a
protocol
written
down
how
they
provide
sorry.
The
referees
really
interact
with
the
provider.
There
are
several
rounds
of
interaction
where
they
basically
ask
the
provider
to
send
them
the
file
to
recover.
So
the
referees
in
few
words
that
try
to
recover
the
file
from
the
provisor.
If
this
happens
no
problem,
there
was
like
maybe
some
misunderstanding
between
client
and
provider,
but
the
referee
is
solvent.
A
A
If
the
referees
after
several
attempts,
they
agreed
that
these
providers
not
provided
retrieval.
They
have
the
ability
to
slash,
we
say,
slash
the
provider.
What
means
they
take
the
collateral
that
was
in
the
smart
contract.
Look
at
this
Mark
can't
evolved,
and
basically
this
is
born
away.
Okay,
so
the
provider
lose
this
and
the
payment.
Of
course
the
provider
doesn't
get
the
payment,
and
this
is
the
client
got
it
back
at
this.
A
So
from
the
security
point
of
view,
so
I
didn't
go
into
detail
of
the
protocol
that
we
have
a
light
paper
gold
on
the
retriever.org
website.
If
you
want
to
read
more
about
it,
but
the
way
we
design
it
assures
that
a
provider
that
does
not
send
the
file
during
the
appeal
will
be
slashed.
Even
if
you
can
like
are
you,
say,
corrupt
and
collude
with
some
of
the
of
the
referees.
So
we
have
a
strong
assurance
that
this
lash,
the
slashing
will
happen.
A
On
the
other
side,
we
want
to
protect
provider
to
be
slashed
for
nothing
or
for
just
my
clients
trying
to
abuse
of
the
protocol,
so
we
have
actually,
for
this
reason,
I
mean
we
have
our.
We
can
prove
that,
even
if
the
client
attacks,
malicious
I
try
to
collude
with
Pro
with
the
referees,
the
honest
provider
that
answer
during
the
appeal
phase
will
not
get
slashed,
go
ahead.
I'm.
A
A
Yeah
I'm,
using
the
specific
number
of
the
implementation
that
we
have
now
sorry
on
top
of
this.
So
this
is,
you
know
the
security
that
the
protocol
gives
you
and
then,
of
course,
we
have
the
crypto
economic
incentives
that
work
here.
So
on
what
side
we
have
the
Assurance
for
the
client.
This
is
represented
by
the
collateral
okay,
so
we
have
a
model.
A
We
did
analysis
and
run
simulation
and
we
can
say
that
if
the
collateral
is
in
the
range
between
payment
and
1000
time
payment,
this
makes
sure
that
a
provider
that
accepts
the
deal
will
provide
the
the
retrieval
survey
because
otherwise
going
to
lose
too
much
money.
Okay,
so
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
accept
the
deal
and
then
I'll
see
if
I
give
the
I
give
the
service
or
not
that's
not
make
service.
So
it
makes
you
know,
accepting
a
deal
something
really
committing
for
the
provider
on
the
receiver
service.
A
On
the
other
side,
we
have
the
appeal:
fear
pilfi
is
how
much
it
costs
for
the
client
to
ask
the
the
help
of
the
referees.
We
can't
make
it
free
because
otherwise,
client
can
just
abuse.
The
protocol
could
just
try
to
you,
know
dos
the
protocol
or
make
a
provider
or
does
a
single
provider
to
get
its
lashes
at
some
point.
So
we
have
to
make
it
a
bit
cost
a
bit
costly
to
to
ask
for
these
appeals,
and
that's
the
suggested
parameter
still
on
this.
A
A
A
A
You
know
it's
not
like
it's
a
retrievability
deal
that
says.
I
want
to
be
sure
that
I
can
ask
her.
I
I
can
ask
back
this
file
in
the
next
six
months.
How
many
times
it's
not
right
now
is
not
a
protocol
parameters.
Maybe
you
can
make
it
because
otherwise
it's
unfair
for
the
provider,
but
right
now
it's
not.
This
is
you're,
not
territory
at
the
coming
yeah
yeah
we're
not.
B
Does
the
the
person
doing
like
serving
the
retrievals?
Will
they
get
some
sort
of
thing
and
anything
even
if
they
are
successful?
Yes,.
A
A
Where
should
we
give
back
the
payment,
even
if
they
give
the
file
through
the
referees
or
not,
because
it's
an
incentive
to
not
answer
to
the
client,
but
only
answer
the
referries,
but
on
the
other
side,
if
they
are
doing
the
retrieval
at
even
during
that,
feel
that
they
are
doing
the
retrieval
service,
so
we
thought
the
the
payment
was
they
should
get
paid
for
the
receiver
service
they're
just
going
doing
it
later,
so
something
that
we
can
do
in
the
future
is
maybe
we
give
them
less
payment.
I,
don't
know.
A
Hold
up
on
the
questions,
we
have
a
whole
day
of
Workshop
ahead
yeah.
We
would
love
to
discuss
all
this.
No,
but
we
love
this
is
I
mean
it's
designed
like
this,
but
feedbacks
and
and
a
new
design
are
really
welcome
here.
A
Stop
with
the
I
think
this
is
all
the
technical
info
I'll
give
for
today.
If
you
want
to
know
more,
go
to
the
website
or
just
ask
us,
we
are
here
in
the
next
few.
Slides
I
want
to
show
you
what
we
have,
what
you
can
test
directly.
A
So
if
you
want
to
test
our
because
we
have
actually
two
deployments
of
of
this
live
and
and
if
you
want
to
test
as
a
client,
so
as
someone
that
store
and
then
ask
to
retrieve
some
files,
we
have
an
app
that
you
can
use
the
app
it's.
It's
simple
just
allow
you
to
drop
a
file,
choose
a
provider
for
which,
which
you
want
to
do
the
the
deals
right
now
we
have
only
two
providers,
one
is
in
the
room
and
one
is
web3.
storage.
A
This
app
asks
you
to
connect
with
some
wallet
like
metamask,
and
then
you
sign
with
metamask
or
the
wallet
and
in
the
app
you
can
also
once
that
you
have
made
deals,
you
can
also
see
the
list
of
deals
that
you
have
and
manage
deals,
meaning
you
can
request
appeal
directly
from
from
the
app,
so
you
don't
need
to
really
interact
with
the
smart
contract
from
from
command
line,
and
you
can
see
if
there
is
an
appeal
you
can
see
how
the
appeal
is
going.
A
As
I
said,
the
appeal
is
long
like
there
are
different
long,
so
it
lasts
for
one
hour
or
something
like
that,
so
you
can
see
how
it
is
going
if
it's
successful
or
not
and
and
go
ahead
and
test
and
feedback
are
welcome.
A
On
the
other
side,
on
the
provider
side,
we
have
first
of
all,
we
are
really
we
really
one
of
the
next
steps,
for
us
is
onboarding
more
providers.
This
is
key
to
test
this
protocol,
client
and
provider.
So
if
you
are
interested
to
join
us
as
a
provider,
please
just
just
there
is
a
QR
code
that
you
can
scan
now,
and
so
you
send
us
your
contact
and
we
can
and
we
we
will
be
in
touch
with
you.
A
There
is
the
GitHub
repo
with
the
readme,
so
it's
it's
also
easy
to
set
your
own
provider.
What
I
want
to
say
about
providers
that
we
have
a
provider
information
strategies
that
is
decided
by
the
provider
itself,
so
I
provide
us
a
join.
Our
our
protocol
can
set
up
the
maximum
size
of
the
files
that
they
accept
the
max
deal,
duration,
Max,
payment
and
collapse.
A
Of
course
he
has
the
possibility
to
set
up
his
own
parameters
that
are
the
default
values,
but,
depending
on
you
know
the
astrological,
the
storage
capacity,
another
maybe
constraint,
he
can
set
up
different
different
values
and
then
the
provider
Works
mainly
from
this
interface.
A
So,
basically,
what
Kryptonite
did
for
this
particular
project
in
this
in
2022
was
going
from
somebody
that
was
an
idea
and
MVP
in
May
this
year
in
May
to
something
that
is
a
test
product,
as
I
said
like
we
are
now
live
onto
on
on
ethereum
girly
test
net
and
we
are,
but
we
are
also
live
on
polygon
mainnet,
and
you
can
really
use
this.
A
This
protocol
for
storing
and
retrieved
data
right
now
we
are
the
release
that
we
made
are
in
the
safe,
what
we
call
the
safe
mode,
so
the
payment
and
therefore
the
collateral
and
everything
is
set
by
default
to
zero.
Why?
Because
we
didn't
have
yet
the
the
opportunity
to
run
a
proper
smart
contact
audit.
Of
course
our
engineer
checked
the
smart
content
code,
but
we
didn't
run
an
external
load
it.
A
So
the
next
step,
practical
short
term
next
step,
is
a
smart
contract
or
audit
to
enable
payments
and
really
check
the
check
test
on
the
ground.
You
know
test
in
real
life,
the
crypto
economic
model
that
we
have
as
I
said
already
before
we
want
to
onboard
more
providing
clients.
Talk
to
us.
If
you
you
know,
are
interested
or
have
suggestion
in
this.
We
want
to
have
another
release:
the
third
release
on
our
bedroom.
This
is
to
get
full
compatibility
with
the
VM
with
the
yes
with
the
ethereum
ecosystem.
A
So
you
know
access
our
protocol,
access,
storage,
actually
in
file
coin
and
ipf
directly
from
from
ethereum,
and
then
also
we
are
working
to
if
I
can
release.
Let's
call
it
that
way
at
some
point,
so
we
we
we
want
to
have
the
Falcon
AVM
compatibility
really
soon
more
open,
like
more
open
questions
that
we
will
keep.
Brainstorming
is,
as
I
said
before,
we
have
now
this
small
Network
five
referees
in
the
future.
A
Maybe
we
want
more
referees
with
a
different
threshold
of
how
much
you
have
to
trust
and
why
not
wanting
actual
referee,
so
not
just
one
Neck
Road.
Many
networks
that
are
really
providing
this
this
service,
we
already
brainstormed,
and
we
already
have
told
about
how
we
can
enhance
the
the
incentive
mechanism
with
the
reputation
I
mean
also
Marina,
said,
show
us
that
reputation
can
really
be
a
strong
incentive,
even
if
it's
not
about
really
tokens
and
crypto
economic.
A
So
maybe
we
want
to
you
know,
give
the
so
looking
at
how
much
the
providers
has
been
slashed
or
this
kind
of
of
data
from
our
protocol.
You
can
construct
a
reputation
systems
that
is
another
incentive
for
for
retrieval,
and
there
are
other
like
Improvement
for
efficiency
and
not
just
for
officials,
but
depending
of
the
use
case
that
we
will,
we
will
want
to
focus
on
next
year.
We
may
want
to
have
improvements
like,
for
example,
ability
to
batch
the
proposal
and
also
like
a
deal
acceptance.
A
B
Look
at
participation
centers
because
with
collateral
So
High,
how
do
how
do
we
intend
your
life
participation
even
in
the
retrievals
to
other
ways
to
tie
into
the
original
deals
like,
or
do
we
just
expect
that
the
the
income
generated
is
going
to
be
high
enough
I.
A
Mean
yes,
I
think
it's
the
second
point,
the
the
the
the
model
suggests
that
it's
true,
that
the
the
collateral
can
be
very
high.
I
mean
it
doesn't
have
to
be
slides,
it's
an
arranged
right,
but
it's
always
proportional
to
the
the
payment
okay.
A
So
this
means
that
you,
you
really.
You
can
really
gain
a
lot
if
you
provide
this
retrieval
service
through
this
particular
protocol
and
deal
okay.
So
it's
true
that
you
have
to
maybe
lock
down
because
of
the
collateral,
a
big
amount
of
tokens,
but
you
it's
always
proportional
to
what
you
you
really
gain
and
if
you
are
doing
a
good
job,
there
is
no
concern
of
being
less
lasted.
A
This
incentive
to
participate,
at
least
from
the
model
and
mathematical
point
of
view.
Then
we
can
talk
about
psychology,
because
of
course,
that
that
that
yeah,
we
really
need
to
understand
how
providers
feel
about
that
anyway.
Yeah.
B
A
Hour
or
five
yeah,
we
don't
really
have
Matrix.
This
is
yeah
actually
should
I
had
this.
Maybe
in
the
open
discussion
there
is,
as
I
said
before,
I
think
to
Marina
is
a
related
problem.
There
is
no
metric
involved.
We
could
do
a
deal
that
you
guarantee
is
retrieval
with
this
metrics.
We
are
not
doing
that.
It's
a
bit.
It's
not
easy,
but
it's
interesting
for
sure.
Yes,.
A
That's
that's
the
hardest
question
of
today.
Use
cases
I,
don't
know
we
I
think
right
now.
This
is
not
the
can
scale.
We
if
I,
think
about
one's
life.
We
can't
really
scale
to
video
now
with
this
kind
of
protocol.
Yet
it's
mostly
use
cases
so
I
think
we
were
kind
of
in
our
head.
We
were
what
is
stored
right
now
with
I.
A
Don't
know:
web3,
Bounty,
nft
storage,
maybe
nfts
I,
don't
know,
maybe
did
that
on
file
plus
program
can
I
know
that
it's
a
bit
weird
that
because
they
have
the
extra
copy,
so
we
have
to
understand
if
it's
rare
or
not,
but
right
now
is,
is
small
data
that
we
can
support.
We
we
definitely
want
to
understand
how
we
can
scale
I,
don't
know
if
other
people
from
the
team
have
other
inside
here
or
yeah.