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From YouTube: Will Blockchain catalyze clean grid tech for future generations? - Susanna Enso Huang, Alex De Vries
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A
To
kick
us
off,
you
know,
we've
heard
an
unbelievable
amount
of
different
perspectives
and
opinions
and
great
updates
on
different
projects.
All
the
amazing
work
that's
going
on
in
the
space
right,
but
one
question
that
is
often
asked
in
the
web
3
in
blockchain
space
is
whether
or
not
these
technologies
can
actually
be
used
to
drive
new
demand
for
clean
technologies
and
help
with
the
global
energy
transition
and
historically,
a
lot
of
attention
has
been
placed
on
the
energy
consumption
and
therefore
the
environmental
impact
of
these
of
these
networks.
A
Some
of
that
attention
has
been
well
placed.
Some
of
it
has
been
misplaced.
Some
would
say,
but
there's
also
been
a
lot
of
attention
on
whether
or
not
these
technologies
have
a
role
to
play
in
driving
collective
action
towards
reducing
emissions
and
showcasing
how
we
can
create
new
demand
for
renewable
energy
and
allow
for
a
more
equitable
and
just
energy
transition
as
we
decarbonize
global
grits.
So
I'm
very
excited
to
talk
to
you
all
about
this
and
maybe
to
kick
us
off.
We
can
just
do
a
quick,
round-robin
intros.
A
B
So
going
back
to
the
drawing
board
and
thinking
how
do
we
transition
to
to
clean
energy?
But
how
do
we
transition
while
uplifting
everyone,
and
that
requires
us
to
collaborate
with
you
know
not
just
from
a
technology
perspective,
but
collaborate
even
from
social
scientists
on
you
know
what
is
the
best
way
to
engage
so
going
from
workforce
development,
making
sure
that
clean
technology
you
know
is
accessible
or
people
know
the
technology?
C
I
am
al
modena
de
la
mata,
ceo
of
blockchain
intelligence
and
we're
very
focused
on
how
can
we
use
blockchain
distributed
technologies
to
improve
society
basically
in
different
ways?
So
now
we're
very
much
focused
on
sustainability
and
have
several
projects,
and
I
actually
wanted
to
talk
specifically
about
one
which
is
a
now.
C
C
D
Yeah,
well
I
mean
a
few
people
probably
heard
me
speak
in
the
previous
session,
but
for
those
who
weren't
around
alex
the
freeze
founder
of
the
age
economist,
which
is
mainly
known
for
hosting
the
bitcoin
energy
consumption
index
and
also
ethereum
and
deutsche
energy
consumption
index,
obviously
providing
data
and
insights
into
the
environmental
sustainability
of
those
networks,
and
you
know
with
regard
to
you
know
this
question.
I
think
the
the
ultimate
answer
is
it
depends
if
you
heard
my
previous
talk.
I
think
that
is
a
logical
conclusion.
D
It
first
of
all
depends
on
how
do
you
build
your
solution?
Are
you
going
to
build
on
a
proof
of
work
based
platform?
Now,
then,
the
answer
is
probably
not
going
to
be
too
optimistic,
but
you
don't
have
to
you
have
plenty
of
alternatives
available,
and
if
you
do
that,
then
other
things
become
more
relevant
like
it
really
depends
on
your
use
case,
but
have,
for
example,
one
popular
use
case
is
people
putting
stuff
like
carbon
offsets
on
top
of
a
blockchain
as
a
potential
solution
and
in
that
case,
blockchain
might
help
to
some
extent.
D
I
still
think
it's
not
a
complete
solution
in
that
case,
because
you're
dealing
with
something
that
happens
in
the
real
world
and
blockchains
typically
have
some
difficulties
observing
what's
going
on
in
the
real
world,
so
they
need
to
be
fed
that
information
and
that
source
is
going
to
be
a
trusted.
Source
of
information
in
some
way
can
be
a
machine
can
be
person,
but
then
you
have
to
just
you
know,
make
it
work
together
with
other
technologies.
So
yeah
I
don't
know.
A
E
Yeah,
I'm
so
grateful
to
be
here
in
the
last
few
hours
days
I
learned
so
much
from
the
blockchain
area.
My
background,
I
was
a
management
consultant
for
like
a
fortune,
1000
companies
10
years
ago.
I
was
really
just
attracted
to
solar
and
the
new
my
big
corporation
goal.
Apart
away,
I
ride
the
road
solar,
solar
coasters
in
the
last
10
years
in
the
united
states
and
building
my
consulting
business,
and
what
I
realized
is
that
the
solar
education
right
now
is
the
most
important,
so
I
began
since
the
last
year.
E
I
really
put
all
I
have
learned
all
the
resources
I
have
known
in
the
u.s
and
put
together
a
solar
education
platform,
I'm
also
the
board
of
director
for
for
the
south
back
alliance.
That's
one
of
the
reasons
I'm
invited
here
sounds
back
alliance.
Is
the
number
one
data
communication,
standard,
nonprofit
organization
in
the
united
states
for
the
distributed
generation,
and
I've
been
working
with
them
on
the
standards
and
the
certifications.
E
E
So
with
all
that,
the
us
has
done
a
lot
of
great
job
of
doing
the
experiment,
putting
the
good
infrastructure
in
place.
I
think
there
are
a
lot
of
things
we
could
learn
from
that
and
the
rollout
had
a
global
skill
from
blockchain
perspective.
It
literally
created
a
such
unique
way
of
collecting
transporting
and
the
use
of
those
transaction
data.
E
A
So
having
peeled
back
one
layer,
let's
dive
yet
another
layer
deeper,
I
just
want
to
you
know.
The
title
of
this
panel
is
blockchain,
will
catalyze
clean
grid
tech
for
future
generations,
true
or
false?
I
want
to
go
around
and
get
your
perspectives
on
it.
Where
do
you
stand
on
this
debate
and
what
learnings,
insights
or
experiences
have
brought
you
to
this
conclusion,
and
maybe
al
mudina?
If
you
could
kick
us
off
and
explain
a
little
bit
more
about
that
project,
yeah.
C
With
pleasure
I
mean
the
project
is
a
european
project
which
we
are
doing
in
a
consortium
with
other
partners
and
and
five
cities:
five
european
cities,
so
we're
working
with
bucharest
and
castellon,
some
middle-sized
cities
to
create
incentives
to
citizens
through
tokenization
and
and
and
crypto
incentives
to
contribute
to
a
better
energy
consumption
and
air
quality.
Ultimately,
air
quality
in
their
cities,
but
also
with
a
diversity
perspective.
C
A
C
They
have
access
to
and
then
and
then
the
second
part
is
how
can
they
contribute
to
improve
equality
and
with
their
actions
and
then
get
rewarded
by
the
cities?
For
that,
so
we
are
working
on
on
on
a
tokenized
model
of
incentives
for
them
and
also
one
of
the
issues
that
we
have.
I
think
it's
important
also
to
know
I
think
and
mention
even
if
it's
not
very
sexy,
I
am
afraid,
but
that
there
is
a
legal
framework
to
all
this.
So
we
need
in
order
to
make
it
real
and
really
implement
it.
C
You
know
to
the
last
consequences
and
to
the
last
mile.
You
need
also
to
take
into
account
all
these
elements,
so
we're
working
also
on
that
and
we
have
in
europe
very
strong
principles
for
privacy
and
you
know
also
a
regulation,
the
the
gdpr
regulation
and
general
data
protection
regulation.
So
we
are
also
watching
that.
C
How
can
we
introduce
these
incentives
to
the
citizens
that
contribute
while
not
tracing
them,
because
we
don't
want
to
create-
and
this
is,
I
think,
an
issue
which
we
should
all
reflect
on,
because
sometimes
we
focus
on
an
objective
which
is
eventually
sustainability
in
this
case
and
and
then
we
forget
about
other
side
effects,
that
might
not
be
that
good.
So
you
need
to
leverage
or
to
watch
out.
C
So
it
is
actually
the
citizens
in
in
all
these
categories
of
diversity,
the
ones
that
are
deciding
what
are
the
right
incentives?
What
are
what
is
what
they
want
to
do?
What
is
what
they
want
to
achieve?
So
there
is
a
part
of
it,
which
is
also
awareness,
building
some
sort
of
sense
of
responsibility
for
for
for
the
planet,
for
your
own
air
quality,
you
know
to
not
delegate
it
to
maybe
it's
more
european
notice,
okay,
the
state
does
it
for
me
or
the
city.
C
But
you
know
they're
in
there
as
well,
and
also
we're
working
on
on
the
governance
element
on
how
can
they
participate
in
the
blockchain?
Also,
the
management,
let's
say
or
the
way
blockchain
is
used
and
that
they
also
understand
this,
which
also,
we
think
it's
a
positive
side
effect,
because
then
they
understand
also
this
distributed
trusted
element
that
it
that
comes
with
it,
and
that
we
also
think
it's
important
to
get
into
the
general
public.
A
That's
that's
absolutely
fascinating.
I
love
how
you're
using
this
tech
to
democratize
access
to
that
governance
aspect
and
providing
a
more
equitable
and
inclusive
framework
for
people
to
work
with
you
and
the
grassroots
efforts.
That's
amazing,
zamzam!
I
know
that
you
have
spent
a
lot
of
time
in
your
career,
working
with
utility
scale
projects
and,
talking
about
you
know,
utility
scale
grid
transformation.
So
I'm
really
keen
to
get
your
perspective
on
this
as
well.
How
can
what
is
blockchain's
role
in
driving
new
demand
for
clean
technologies
for
future
generations?.
B
Thank
you
mark,
even
though
I
did
spend
time
working
and
building
utility
scale.
I
do
believe
the
solution
for
us
moving
forward
is
to
decentralize
the
grid
and
have
have
a
decentralized
grid.
That
way
we
can
get
a
more
equitable
distribution
of
clean
tech
around,
and
I
think
the
role
of
blockchain
here
is
to
aggregate
that
decentralization
so
that
people
have
you
know
we
call
it
energy
democracy
so
that
people
have
access
to
this
clean
technology.
B
You
know
currency,
so
it
has
the
ability
to
do
that
to
for
energy
so
that
air
all
areas
across
the
globe,
not
just
you
know,
developed
nations,
can
have
can
move
forward.
You
know
like
they
transitioned
from
you
know
like,
for
example,
in
africa
they
didn't
have
access
to
telephone
lines,
but
they
they
adopted
mobile
phones.
A
Yeah
wow,
so
much
of
that
just
resonated
me
with
me.
It
reminds
me
a
lot
of
the
un
development
programs
multi-functional
platforms
that
they
deployed
back
in
the
late
1990s
and
2000s
to
really
help
spur
new
economic
activity
in
rural
areas
around
the
world,
and
I
love
the
thought
of
utilizing
blockchain
technology
to
drive
collective
action
and
maybe
help
drive
some
efficiency
gains
with
distributed
renewable
energy
assets
or
resources
around
the
world.
I
think
that
that's
absolutely
fascinating.
A
B
You
can
aggregate
those
resources,
you
can
aggregate
savings
in
the
developed
area
so
that
we
do
not
need
new
energy
added
resources,
but
we
can
manage
better,
what's
existing
currently
sure
so,
there's
a
lot
of
potential
and
it's
exciting,
because
you
know
this.
This
will
help
democratize
energy,
but
we
have
to
walk
with
that
framework.
How
do
we
benefit
everyone.
A
Yeah
100
and,
of
course,
if
you
can
incentivize
the
deployment
of
renewable
energy
in
a
very
local
context,
then
there's
a
potential
for
less
loss
of
that
energy
through
the
last
mile
efforts
through
the
transportation,
transmission
and
distribution,
and
that's
also
a
great
hope
in
terms
of
democratizing
it
in
providing
access
to
electricity
in
areas
that
otherwise
would
not
get
it
great.
Susanna.
I'm
also
very
keen
to
get
your
take
on
this
as
well.
What
is
blockchain's
role
in
driving
new
demand
for
clean
technology
in
future
generations.
E
Maybe
because
I'm
still
new
to
this
all
these
blockchain
jargons,
I'm
going
to
just
use
my
language
from
solar
perspective.
From
engineer
perspective
before
I
came
to
here,
I
was
thinking
what
is
the
biggest
problem
sbs
want
to
resolve
and
from
all
my
learnings
I
come
to
my
own
biggest
question,
which
is:
how
can
we
help
people
live
a
happy
life
powered
by
technologies
and
the
blockchain
is
one
of
the
technology.
Wipe
3.0
is
really
the
just
a
technology
to
help
us
get
there.
Then.
I
also
heard
people
are
talking
about
doll.
E
What
I'm
feeling
is,
I
see
a
huge
shift
right
now
in
the
society
because
of
pandemic,
because
the
environmental
crisis,
so
big
people,
begin
to
think
differently.
Why
I
was
working
for
big
consulting
firms.
We
were
like
how
to
drive
the
profitability
of
a
company,
but
more
and
more
I
began
to
hear
more
about
how
can
we
run
business
that
have
a
good
impact
on
our
environment,
so
this
whole
mindset
have
shift
again.
The
renewable
energy
is
one
or
two
blockchain
is
one
of
the
two.
E
Why?
I
think?
From
the
engineer
perspective,
I
remember
when
I
came
to
qinghua.
The
first
lesson
was
systematic
thinking,
so
I
I
have
a
three
frame
of
thinking
on
this
whole
thing.
The
first
one
is
I
I
viewed
this
whole
sustainability,
the
planet
thing
as
a
huge,
complex
system,
then
for
huge,
complex
system,
there
are
actually
three
flows.
The
first
flow
is
a
flow
of
products.
E
That'll
probably
answer
your
question:
what's
a
blockchain's
rule,
blockchain's
role
is
literally
provided
a
trust
in
the
transaction
data
from
beginning
to
end
how
data
gathered
verify
the
transport
and
used
properly
through
this
whole
system
and
used
by
individual
person
like
me,
and
then
the
third
component
is
really
the
energy
flow,
but
energy
is
not
the
traditional
energy
we're
talking
about
the
electricity,
I'm
really
talking
about
a
good
energy
per
se.
Let
me
give
you
example
I
like
to
drink
coffee,
especially
starbucks
coffee.
E
In
my
early
days,
I
spent
a
lot
of
time
just
sitting
in
a
bookshelf
or
buying
snow,
bunching,
starbucks
coffee.
Then
I
read
the
book
from
mr
hallward
schutz,
the
onward
he
talked
about
how
he
built
a
great
business,
but
that's
not
the
most
important
part.
What
a
question
came
to
my
mind
is
if
I
could
learn
every
pieces,
how
he
built
his
business.
Could
I
build
a
great
business
like
him
like
his?
E
My
answer
is
most
likely.
No,
the
reason
behind
it
is,
if
you
use
read
their
mission.
Vision
is
about
using
a
cup
of
coffee
to
inspire
people's
spirit.
So
that's
the
energy
behind
it.
That's
the
energy
drive
every
business
ethical
decision
from
beginning
to
end
from
the
way
he
helped
the
farmers
in
africa
to
build,
build
their
coffee
farms
all
the
way,
green
transportation.
E
A
Amazing,
I
love
that
system,
design,
framework
and
really
thinking
about
the
product
and
the
information
energy
flows
is
absolutely
crucial
if
you
want
to
see
where
new
technologies
can
really
drive,
some
efficiency
gains
across
large
industrial
sectors.
Of
course,
you
know
actually
much
of
the
disdain
of
some
of
my
colleagues.
A
Now
that
being
said,
this
is
you
know
this
technology
is
not
a
panacea,
it
does
have
its
challenges,
it
does
have
its
limitations
alex.
I
would
love
to
turn
it
to
you
and
to
explain
some
of
these
right.
You
just
gave
a
great
overview
of
the
extensive
energy
consumption
of
these
networks,
especially
the
public
ones
that
rely
on
proof
of
work.
D
So
if,
if
that's
all,
you
read
you're,
going
to
think
that
every
blockchain
has
an
energy
issue
and
you're
going
to
think
that
every
blockchain
just
does
not
scale
at
all,
because
the
bitcoin
blockchain
is
limited
to
handling
roughly
a
handful
of
transactions
per
second,
and
that's
it
well,
hey.
Is
that
your
reference
for
blockchain
in
general,
then
yeah.
You
need
to
adjust
that,
because
the
blockchain
technology
is
way
broader
than
just
bitcoin,
blockchain
and
again
hey.
D
You
have
many
choices
in
how
you
set
up
the
blockchain
and,
of
course,
you
are
going
to
have
to
make
some
trade-offs
like,
for
example,
if
you're
going
to
make
the
system
more
scalable,
if
you're
going
to
allow
more
transactions,
also
means
these
systems
grow
in
size
faster,
which
might
lead
to
more
centralization
because
hey
yeah,
if,
if
the
system
grows
faster
inside,
you
need
more
storage
capacity,
not
everyone
has
sufficient
storage
and
bandwidth
to
participate
anymore,
but
yeah
they're,
they're
they're.
They
can
be
mitigated,
and
I
think
the
the
key.
D
The
key
question
to
answer
is
really
not.
How
do
we
build
a
blockchain
like
you
know,
leave
it
to
the
developers
when
you
have
decided
that
you
need
a
blockchain,
and
I
think
the
first
question
you
should
be
answering
is
like:
do
we
even
need
a
blockchain
for
a
certain
use
case
and
I've
been
working
as
a
consultant
for
five
years
in
technology
consulting,
and
I
actually
got
this
question
quite
a
lot,
and
you
know
when
it
comes
to
the
question:
do
you
need
a
blockchain?
Well,
it
really
depends
as
well
on
you
know.
D
D
If
you
are
going
to
do
you
know,
use
cases
like
I
don't
know,
I
already
mentioned
doing
carbon
offsetting
on
top
of
a
blockchain
where
you
have
to
measure
a
real
world
impact,
are
trees
really
being
planted,
how
much
carbon
is
actually
being
offset.
The
blockchain
will
never
know
so
again,
you're
going
to
have
to
work
with
someone
to
figure
out
whether
you're,
actually
reducing
emissions,
whether
trees
are
being
planted
or
not.
D
So
in
that
to
in
that,
in
that
sense
there
might
be
a
reason
to
think
about
blockchain.
But
then
blockchain
is
not
going
to
be
the
only
solution
you
need
so
again.
It's
maybe
not
just
blockchain,
but
also
blockchain,
in
combination
with
other
technologies,
and
that's
how
I
like
to
think
about
this
kind
of
stuff.
You
know,
let's.
A
C
C
If
you
want
to
change
behavior,
how
do
you
link
you
know
the
actual
change
in
behavior,
and
how
do
you
turn
that
into
data
that
you
can
bring
up
to
the
blockchain
and
eventually
in
a
smart
contract
or
and
and
find
a
way
to
use
it
properly
to
to
again
contribute
to
the
to
the
to
the
behavioral
change,
which
is
the
issue
and
with
regard
to
the
to
the
governance?
Actually
I
mean
the
on
chain,
governance
and
the
validation
processes
and
proof
of
work,
and
all
this
this
has
been.
C
Of
course,
one
of
the
main
issues
dealt
with
here,
because
you
know,
if
you
want
a
sustainable
solution
and
then
you
use
proof
of
work
and
how
can
you
do
it?
It's
an
issue
and
I
think
it
always
in
our
consultancies
as
well.
It's
always
a
matter
of
you
know,
leveraging
also
the
trust,
the
sources
of
trust
and,
to
what
extent
or
in
which
part
of
the
project
you
introduce
eventually
blockchain.
So
for
me,
it's
not
so
much
about.
C
We
do
things
in
blockchain,
but
we
find
solutions
for
a
problem
and
blockchain
in
many
cases
is
a
piece
that
you
introduce
in
the
whole
solution.
That
brings
an
added
value,
but
it's
not
a
blockchain
project
only,
but
it's
a
whole
project
which
has
a
blockchain
element
and
there
we
need
to
be
very
careful
in
using
the
you
know
the
like
they're
using
blockchain
properly
so
again,
and
I
think
in
in
our
work
at
blockchain
intelligence.
We
very
often
end
up
with
you.
Do
not.
Actually
you
do
not
need
blockchain.
C
A
That's
wonderful,
so
much
of
that
just
resonated
very
strongly
with
me.
Obviously,
a
tremendous
amount
of
design
design
decisions
that
need
to
go
take
place
when
looking
at
a
specific
use
case,
interoperability
being
a
major
one
and
then
those
crucial
questions
about
what
information
resides
on
chain
versus
on-chain
or
off-chain.
And
how
do
you
minimize
that
attack
vector?
Of
course,
I
think
that
content
addressing
it
and
storing
it
on
ipfs
and
filecoin
is
a
great
idea.
Others
may
think
differently.
A
E
Real
case,
because
both
of
them
I
have
covers
both
of
them,
my
working
so
I
know,
there's
a
real
case
that
probably
answered
their
questions,
so
you
use
what's
called
the
sensor,
which
is
a
physical
product
and
in
the
why
work
with
the
sound
spike
lines
to
get
the
solar
inverter
certified.
There's
a
component
called
the
public
key,
which
is
a
part
of
the
you
know,
blockchain.
E
They
are
certified
to
suspect
2030.50e
standard.
So
with
data
sent
means
the
data.
Could
solar
inverter
could
be
a
data
source
where
it
communicate
with
the
grade?
So,
there's
a
rich
data
beside
the
pricing
there's
energy
consumption
usage,
a
lot
of
information
are
there
because
this
standards,
basically
is
a
data
communication
protocol.
E
D
E
Then,
certainly
by
the
home
user,
you
can
see
on
the
monitoring
this
data
could
be.
The
question
like
you
have
is:
could
this
be
part
of
blockchain
or
could
be
a
different
data
site
that
complement
the
blockchain
with
that
said,
we
literally
reduce
the
amount
of
the
blockchain
requirement,
because
blockchain
is
energy
consuming.
You
know
you
talk
about
sustainability
of
blockchain.
If
we
reduce
the
amount
of
blockchain
need
to
validate
the
data.
Instead,
we
go
to
the
source
of
data,
make
sure
the
source
is
right.
The
process
is
right.
E
A
Taking
note
of
time,
I
want
to
do
a
quick
round
robin
and
ask
you
know.
We
have
had
about
two
days
of
amazing
talks
at
sbs
with
a
lot
of
ideas
and
thoughts
and
conversations
that
have
been
shared
apart
from
your
own
projects
or
things
that
you're
working
on
what
has
caught
your
eye.
What
are
you
really
interested
in
whether
it's
a
specific
project
or
a
set
of
ideas
around
this
topic
right?
A
A
B
They're
investing
in
fusion
technology
with
the
with
the
intent
for
it
to
have
impact
and
accessibility
for
everyone.
So
I
was
very
very
impressed
about
that,
because
one
of
the
catalysts
is
that
we
fund
innovation
with
the
intent
that
it
benefits
everyone
and
not
go
to
a
vc
and-
and
you
know
be
that
one
percent
holders
of
that
that
technology
and
nobody
else
has
access
to
it.
A
C
C
D
D
E
E
I
am
I
I'm
really
inspired
to
provide
a
solar
education
to
more
people.
What
I
learned
basically
over
the
years
is
a
few
words
from
a
a
great
teacher.
Can
change
people's
past
so
with
the
advice
of
technology,
the
internet,
web
3.0.
So
literally,
we
could
provide
the
solar
education
a
totally
different
way.
People
can
study
at
home
and
learn
about
it.
The
reason
I
want
to
do
it
is,
I
don't
believe
the
marketing
is
really
effective
way
of
reaching
more
people
and
get
people
educated.
E
I
think
that
the
new
new
format
or
training
program
should
be
the
way
and
people
can
learn
at
anywhere
any
place
anytime
and
happily,
more
importantly,
happily
so
I
think
blockchain
and
the
the
even
the
south
back
aligns
the
standard
codes
which
are
literally
not
dry.
It's
if
I
put
a
story
in
it,
it's
really
interesting,
so
we
could
learn
different
ways.
So
that's
my
goal.
I
come
here
also
seeing
trying
to
see
how
can
I
connect
with
right
people
get
a
better
funding
to
make
this
kind
of
dream
come
true.