►
From YouTube: Sustainable Blockchain Summit @ SXSW
Description
The blockchain and cryptocurrency industry can become an important player in renewable energy and drive objective, actionable change towards sustainability. Due to its inherent technological advantages, it can even outpace traditional companies in their efforts towards fighting climate change.
Please note that capacity for this event is very limited and attendees will be admitted on a first come basis. This event will be livestreamed on Twitter @Filecoin and Youtube, and you can join the event here:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/sustainable-blockchain-summit-sxsw-tickets-272887262147
Code of Conduct: The event follows the Filecoin Community Code of Conduct.
COVID-19 Guidelines: This event will be compliant with the SXSW COVID-19 guidelines. All attendees of our in-person event will be required to provide proof of a completed primary vaccination series against Covid-19 or a recent negative Covid-19 test in order to attend this event.
A
One
who's
tuning
in
from
across
the
world
you're
very
welcome.
I
am
the
co-creator
of
the
falcon
green
project
and,
as
jamie
said,
I
have
a
couple
of
other
hats
that
I
wear,
but
obviously
I'm
deeply
passionate
about
this
specific
project,
so
I'm
gonna
just
get
right
into
it,
because
we
just
have
such
a
fact
day,
and
it
gives
me
huge
pleasure
to
introduce
the
man
behind
the
magic
of
falcon
green.
Please
put
your
hands
together
for
the
wonderful
alan
ransall.
A
B
Awesome,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
coming.
As
angie
said,
I
am
I'm
alan
I'm.
The
team
lead
for
falcon
green
and
I
spend
a
lot
of
time
thinking
about
these
two
questions
right.
So
how
can
we
take
crypto
projects,
make
them
verifiably
sustainable
and
how
can
we
take
the
world
of
web
3
and
use
that
to
upgrade
sustainability
claims?
B
B
The
second
point
fiona
web
2,
is
inadequate
to
counter
environmental
challenges.
That's
ultimately
because
environmental
accounting
needs
what
web3
is
offering
a
clear.
You
know,
sort
of
quick
way
to
see.
This
is
that
one
of
the
the
foundations
of
web3
is
to
move
from
location,
addressing
to
content,
addressing
so
with
location.
Addressing
you,
you
type
your
url
into
your
your
browser
that
resolves
to
an
ip
address
that
ip
address
ultimately
tells
you
where,
on
the
network,
the
resource
that
you're
looking
for
is
right.
B
So
if
someone
so
you
have
to
hope
that
whoever
is
maintaining
that
resource
in
their
in
their
walled
garden
right
keeps
that
resource
at
the
same
place
on
the
network
and
if
they
move
it
or
if
they
change
it,
you
might
not
be
able
to
find
it.
You
won't
be
able
to
tell
whether
they
changed
it
right,
whereas
with
content
addressing
in
web3,
you
search
for
a
resource
based
on
the
fingerprint
of
that
resource,
and
so
wherever
it
is
on
the
network.
B
B
So
I'm
going
to
talk
some
about
filecoin,
green
specifically,
and
what
we're
working
on
to
make
falcoin
itself
verifiably,
sustainable
and
thinking
a
lot
about
how
we
can
use
filecoin
to
upgrade
environmental
claims.
More
broadly
so,
falcoin
uses
electricity
in
order
to
store
files
and
prove
that
they
are
stored
over
time.
There
are
two
major
components
to
the
energy
use
of
falcoin,
the
first
we
call
ceiling.
This
is
when
you
are
setting
up
a
proof
system.
B
That's
going
to
allow
you
to
prove
that
you
are
continuing
to
store
that
data
over
time,
so
that
ceiling
step
takes
some
electricity
and
that's
that's
a
big
part
of
our
model,
and
we
want
to
account
for
that.
Then
you
also
need
to
store
the
actual
data
over
time,
and
so
that's
another
component
of
the
electricity
use
of
falcoin.
B
What
is
really
special
about
this
system
is
that,
because
your
chance
of
winning
a
block
reward
is
proportional
to
the
capacity
that
you're
committing
to
the
network,
we
have
a
proof
on
chain
of
how
many
resources
every
individual
node
in
the
network,
is
contributing
over
time.
So
it's
not
that
we
just
see
story
fighters
when
they
win
a
block
reward
or
when
they
make
a
transaction.
We
actually
see
over
time
every
time
they
add
a
sector
right.
So
we
actually
know
this
storage
provider
is
contributing.
B
You
know
this
many
gigabytes
of
storage
to
the
network
and
we
see
how
that
changes
over
time.
We
have
proofs
verifying
that
publicly
and
so
what
we
did
was
we
took
all
of
that
information.
We
talked
to
a
lot
of
storage
providers
and
we
turned
that
into
a
model
which
you
can
see
if
you
go
on
github
or
if
you
just
go
to
filecoin.energy,
you
can
see
for
the
network
as
a
whole.
How
much
electricity
is
being
used?
B
You
can
see
the
upper
bound,
the
lower
bound
of
the
estimate,
and
if
you
type
in
a
minor
id
for
an
individual,
filecoin
storage
writer,
you
can
see
this
graph
and
other
graphs
showing
all
the
data
that
went
into
that
for
that
specific
minor
id.
So
that
gives
you
this
this
granularity
that
is
backed
by
these
public
proofs
of
resources
committed
to
the
chain,
and
so
how
does
the
electricity
use
of
filecoin
stack
up
compared
to
data
centers?
These
are
this,
this
data's.
B
There
are
a
lot
of
caveats
to
this
data,
I'm
using
2020
numbers
here
for
global
data
centers,
because
this
information
is
hard
to
come
by
and
it
isn't
isn't
published
super
frequently.
But
when
you
look
at
follow
coin
storage
today,
there
is
about
point
eight,
seven
percent
of
global
data
center
storage
capacity,
all
of
the
data
and
data
centers
all
over
the
world
is
27
of
that
is
stored
on
follow
coin
and
follow
coin.
B
We
think
uses
about
0.67
of
all
of
the
energy
used
by
data
centers
around
the
world,
and
so
when
you
look
at
this,
the
data
storage
component,
which
is
a
major
component
of
energy
use,
is
comparable
to
data
centers
around
the
world.
That
ceiling
component
adds
a
little
bit
but,
as
you
can
see
from
these
numbers,
it's
it's
in
line
with
what
data
centers
use.
B
So
it's
about
five
percent
more
efficient
than
it
was,
and
we
expect
that
to
continue
over
time,
and
so
what
this
means
right
once
we
have
this
really
granular
level
of
data
that
is
connected
to
these
public
proofs
of
resources
committed
to
the
network.
We
can
do
all
sorts
of
things
with
that,
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
can
do
is
take
location
data.
Jim
pick
is
this:
this
great
developer
in
the
community
who's
done
a
lot
of
work,
mapping,
storage
provider
nodes
to
locations
using
ip
addresses.
B
So
this
is
a
map
contributed
by
this
this
another
amazing
community,
member
community,
member
smartbeat.ef,
in
which
he
took
those
those
two
data
sets
and
combined
them
right,
and
so
you
can
go
to
this
url
and
you
can
see
how
much
electricity
is
being
used
by
storage
fighters
and
the
falcon
network
all
over
the
world,
and
so
the
other
thing
that
we
can
do
when
we
have
this
really
granular
level
of
data
is
we
can
connect
filecoin
storage
providers
to
renewable
energy.
This
is
a
schematic
of
how
renewable
energy
markets
work.
B
You
pull
data
from
the
power
grid,
you
pull
you
pull
electricity
from
the
power
grid,
electricity
and
data.
I
think
of
those
is
pretty
tightly
connected.
You
pull
electricity
from
the
power
grid
and
a
lot
of
people
are
putting
putting
energy
into
that
power
grid.
Some
of
them
are
renewables
producers.
Some
of
them
are
other
producers,
fossil
fuel.
B
So
what
that
means,
then,
is
we're
able
to
take
nodes
in
the
falcon
network
and
connect
them
not
just
to
renewable
energy
in
general,
but
to
specific
renewable
energy
providers
producing
energy
for
them
over
a
specific
amount
of
time
from
a
specific
source,
so
solar
or
wind
or
whatever,
that
source
is
and
you're
going
to
hear
a
lot
more
about
that
in
discussions
today
from
from
doug
who's
speaking
next
and
from
beltran
who's.
Speaking
later
in
the
day
talking
about
this
global
renewable
energy
marketplace
using
web3
native
tooling
that
they're
developing
in
xero
labs.
B
So
this
is
the
the
roof
of
descent
hosting
hida
is
as
you're
going
to
be
hearing
from
him
later
he's
in
the
audience
they
are.
I
believe
one
of
the
largest
falcon
storage
fighters
in
europe-
if
not
the
largest
the
falcon
foundation,
gave
them
a
grant
to
put
solar
energy
on
their
roof
and
make
the
data
from
those
solar
panels
publicly
available
over
time.
B
What
the
energy
use
of
all
this
hardware
is
how
much
electricity
is
being
produced
locally
and
match
those
up
and
then
see
what's
coming
from
the
grid
right
and
then
also
use
eacs
to
cover
energy
coming
from
the
grid,
and
now,
when
the
sun
is
shining
they're,
getting
a
hundred
percent
of
their
electricity
use
covered
by
solar
panels
on
the
roof
of
their
building.
So
we're
really
excited
about
opportunities
like
that
to
produce
more
solar,
in
addition
to
just
purchasing
solar
from
other
other
projects.
B
We
want
to.
We
want
to
support
you
in
building
them
if
it's
aligned
with
this
mission
to
improve
verifiability
in
environmental
claims
in
a
web
3
native
way,
you
can
also
join
our
monthly
meetups,
the
first
tuesday
of
every
month
and
there's
more
information
on
the
website.
Please
use
the
dead
energy
dashboard,
there's
an
api
associated
with
it.
B
You
can
get
stats
from
any
storage
provider
using
that
api
and
incorporate
that
into
your
project,
and
if
you
want
to
sign
up
for
updates,
you
can
go
to
tinyurl.com
filecoin-screen-updates
and
I
wanna
I
wanna
come
back
just
before
I
close
to
these
two
meta
points,
which
are
that
we
should
overestimate
and
show
our
work
and
fiat
plus
web
2
was
inadequate
to
counter
climate
change.
I
really
want
to
say
firstly
on
this:
this
overestimating
impacts
that
doesn't
just
go
for
electricity
use.
B
So
when
we
are
matching
falcon
storage
providers
to
renewable
energy,
we're
not
using
the
estimate
we're
using
the
upper
bound
of
the
electricity
use
that
this
model
spits
out
and
our
thought
there
is
well
we'll
match
to
the
upward
bound.
And
if
you
want
to
make
renewable
claims
using
less
renewable
energy,
we'll
provide
pathways
and
you
can.
You
can
develop
pathways
to
prove
what
your
actual
electricity
uses,
but
until
we
see
the
proof
we're
going
to
use
this
upper
bound
right.
B
But
we
shouldn't
just
overestimate
impacts
in
the
context
of
electricity
use,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
other
things
that
we
need
to
do
in
order
to
better
align
our
economy
with
natural
systems.
This
is
called
the
planetary
boundaries
framework.
These.
This
is
a
set
of
variables
that
we
can
measure
in
the
world
that
have
have
boundaries
on
them.
B
So
as
long
as
these
variables
are
within
a
specified
range,
the
the
global
systems
are
are
stable
and
sustainable,
and
what
you
see
is
we've
violated
those
boundaries
globally
in
a
few
different
areas
like
biodiversity
loss
like
plastics
pollution
in
the
oceans
like
chemical
runoff
from
fertilizers,
and
we
need
to
get
those
back
within
safe
ranges
for
the
sustainability
of
everything
we
do
right,
and
so
we
so
blockchains
emit
a
lot
of
c.
You
know
blockchains
emit
amounts
of
co2
that
like
dominate
their.
B
So
we
are
broadly
in
web
3,
a
community
of
people
who
strongly
believe
in
the
power
of
building
new
technological
tools
to
solve
really
big
problems,
and
that
to
me
means
that
we
shouldn't
see
any
of
these
planetary
boundaries
as
out
of
scope
as
to
what
we're
doing
then,
the
the
second
question.
So
so
you
know,
let's
come
back
just
really
quickly,
to
answer
why
fiat
plus
web
2
is
inadequate
to
to
account
for
environmental
challenges.
B
So
this
is
from
the
executive
order.
That
just
came
out.
You
probably
saw
this
this
week,
the
the
white
house
ordered
the
executive
branch
to
do
a
series
of
reports
on
on
crypto
right,
and
so,
if
you
look
at
this,
this
report
should
specifically
address
potential
uses
of
blockchain
that
could
support
monitoring
or
mitigating
technologies
of
climate
impacts
right,
so
they
want
to
know
they
want
to
know
why.
B
Why
do
you
need
web3
to
do
this,
and
the
one
answer
right
is
what
I
what
I
mentioned
at
the
beginning
right
so
web
environmental
accounting
needs
what
web
three
has
to
offer,
and
that
is
this
verifiability
and
interoperability,
but
an
even
stronger
claim
than
I'm
gonna
make
on
closing
that
I
think
we
should
think
about
and
develop
is
that
fiat
is
computationally,
incomplete,
it's
incomplete
in
a
mathematical,
computational
sense
for
modeling,
and
therefore
taking
action
to
reduce
and
mitigate
environmental
externalities.
What
do
I
mean
by
that?
B
I
mean
fiat
can
add,
fiat
can
subtract
right.
If
you
have
money
a
and
money
b,
you
put
them
together,
you
have
money
a
plus
b.
That's
that's,
not
how
environmental
externalities
work
right.
So
an
example
of
this
is
land
use.
You
have
plot
a
plot
b,
there's
a
value
of
plot,
a
value
of
plot
b.
You
put
them
together,
you
have
you
know
the
value
of
plot.
B
A
plus
b
is
a
plus
b
right,
but
those
plots
of
land
might
have
very
different
capacities
to
support
biodiversity
land
that
is
contiguous
over
a
large
section
of
you
know.
Undisturbed.
Wilderness,
for
example,
is
much
more
valuable
to
the
biosphere
than
land.
That's
split
up
into
a
bunch
of
little
patches
right.
So
that's
what
I
mean
by
fiat
is
computationally
incomplete
to
model
environmental
externalities
right.
So
you
can't
just
you
fundamentally
can't
reduce
the
health
of
an
ecosystem
to
a
price
signal
and
that
disparity
right.
B
The
disparity
between
what's
actually
happening
on
the
ground
in
these
systems
versus
what
is
happening
in
our
models
of
these
systems
that
we
are
using
to
cover
them
matters,
and
when
you
try
to
do
that
with
just
fiat
and
you
layer,
a
web
to
accounting
system.
On
top
of
that,
what
do
you
do?
Well,
at
the
end
of
the
year,
you
try
to
figure
out
what
were
my
impacts
and
you
produce
a
report
that
you
know.
Maybe
you
produce
it
at
the
end
of
the
the
first
quarter
of
the
next
year.
B
That
means
you're
working
with
data.
That's
a
year
old
right,
and
so
when
we're
making
these
transactions-
and
we
need
to
track
what
those
environmental
impacts
are
in
real
time
or
as
close
to
real
time
as
we
possibly
can-
and
you
just
can't
do
that
with
fiat
by
adding
this
this
accounting
layer
on
top
of
it,
but
you
can
with
web3.
You
can
do
this
with
programmable
money.
B
You
can
make
models,
you
can
make
those
models
more
robust
over
time
and
you
can
use
them
to
track
environmental
impacts,
and
you
can
talk
to
scientists
who
are
working
on
these
models
when
they
come
up
with
better
models.
You
can
implement
them
and
show
how
those
impacts
flow
through
your
entire
economy,
and
so
what
we
need
to
do
to
solve
this
problem.
What
need
we
need
to
do
this
solve
these
two
problems
that
are
sides
of
the
same
coin?
B
Are
we
need
to
build
those
sorts
of
tools
that
are
general
enough
to
decarbonize
the
entire
economy,
and
we
need
to
apply
them
first
in
the
industry
that
is
the
fastest
moving
in
the
world?
That
is
going
to
be
the
quickest
to
adopt
these
tools,
and
that
is
how
we
decarbonize
crypto
and
decarbonize
the
world.
Thank
you.
A
Awesome,
thank
you
so
much
alan,
I'm
sure
you've
got
a
lot
of
questions,
but
save
them.
Alan
is
going
to
be
hanging
out
for
the
rest
of
the
day.
We're
we'll
have
a
couple
of
breaks
and
things.
So
if
you
have
anything,
you
want
to
dive
into,
don't
worry
you're
going
to
get
the
chance.
We
won't
hold
that
back
from
you
we're
going
to
dive
straight
into
our
next
presenter
on
a
roll
here.
Please
put
your
hands
together
for
the
wonderful
dog
miller.
C
C
Good
morning,
everybody
it's
a
pleasure
to
be
here
today
in
austin
and
from
washington
dc.
I
guess
I'm
just
waiting
for
the
presentation
to
come
up,
but
today
I'll
be
talking
about
three
things:
first
kind
of
double
clicking
on
what
alan
was
talking
about
in
terms
of
what
are
clean
energy
markets
and
how
do
they
actually
work?
C
C
Lastly,
what
is
the
role
of
blockchain
as
a
source
of
solutions
in
the
clean
energy
sector,
kind
of
providing
some
more
context
on
the
points
that
alan
brought
up
today
so
first
to
dive
right
in
let's,
let's
do
a
little
bit
of
a
101
on
what
clean
energy
markets
are
and
why
they're
so
important
before
doing
that?
I'll,
just
briefly
introduce
the
organization
I'm
here
representing
so
the
clean
energy
buyers,
association
and
the
clean
energy
buyers
institute,
it's
a
family
of
two
organizations.
We
have
a.
C
We
have
a
mission
to
decar
to
achieve
a
90,
carbon-free,
u.s
electric
grid
by
2030,
extremely
ambitious,
and
what
this
entails
is
not
just
bringing
more
wind
and
solar
online,
but
also
making
sure
we
bring
in
battery
storage
and
other
sources
of
clean
power
so
that
no
matter
what
time
of
day
you
turn
on
the
switch.
You
know
that
you're
sourcing,
your
your
electricity
with
clean
power,
and
we
also
represent
the
world's
largest
community
of
clean
energy
customers,
companies
who
buy
clean
power
and
then
companies
who
provide
the
solutions
for
clean
power.
C
So
alan
talked
a
little
bit
about
clean
energy,
and
I
just
want
to
double
down
on
this,
because
this
is
something
that
can
be
quite
complex,
and
I
want
to
try
to
make
it
really
clear
for
folks
how
these
markets
work.
So
right
now,
if
you're
a
company
and
you
power
up
your
operations,
you're
using
the
standard
grid
mix
and
in
the
standard
grid
mix,
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
generators.
They
come
from
a
whole
bunch
of
different
sources,
whether
it's
coal,
gas,
nuclear,
hydro,
wind,
solar,
etc.
C
And
you
don't
really
know,
what's
powering
your
facility
and
that's
because
our
grid
is
like
a
big
soup
of
electrons
and
so
essentially,
with
the
status
quo.
Were
there
no
market
for
clean
energy?
If
we
just
accepted
the
status
quo,
we'd
have
to
depend
on
policy
outcomes
to
move
things
faster.
So,
luckily
about
15
or
so
years
ago,
we
started
creating
these
things
called
voluntary,
clean
energy
markets,
and
so
what
that
does
is
it
allows
companies
to
take
a
proactive
measure
to
buy
clean
power,
but
because
we're
dealing
with
an
invisible
product?
C
How
in
the
world?
You
actually
do
that
and
it
gets
quite
complex
really
quickly,
so
to
create
a
clean
energy
market.
What
we
have
to
do
is
we
have
to
essentially
tag
all
the
clean
energy
facilities
like
the
solar,
the
wind,
the
hydro,
all
the
non-polluting
sources
put
them
in
a
database
as
it
is
today
and
then
every
month
say
how
much
did
each
of
those
facilities
produce
create
a
wreck.
C
A
renewable
energy
certificate
like
what
alan
was
talking
about
that
represents
one
megawatt
hour
of
clean
electricity,
and
then
each
of
those
facility
owners
of
the
clean
energy
facilities
can
sell.
Those
essentially
becomes
a
new
source
of
revenues.
It
makes
clean
energy
more
profitable
than
it
otherwise
would
have
been,
and
then
there's
a
whole
market
of
companies
who
buy
these
certificates
to
then
say,
ultimately,
I'm
100
clean
powered
if
their
electricity
use
equals
the
number
of
certificates
they
have
in
their
accounts.
C
But,
as
alan
was
talking
about
earlier,
the
way
this
is
all
set
up
is
a
situation
with
walled
gardens
systems
that
don't
talk
to
one
another,
so
you
can
probably
see
kind
of
where
I'm
going
with
this
conversation,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
how
this
works
is
that,
let's
say
you're
a
particular
company.
This
little
blue
person
here
there
was
a
wind
facility
that
was
tagged.
C
C
Just
there's
been
one
standard
set
of
things
companies
do
to
to
procure
clean
energy.
Essentially,
the
way
the
global
clean
energy
system
is
designed.
The
way
I
was
just
explaining
it.
It
incentivizes
annual
clean
energy
purchases
by
companies,
essentially
household
brand
names
you
can
think
of
they
buy
clean
energy.
Once
per
year,
based
on
their
annual
energy
use,
based
on
where
they're
consuming
electricity
around
the
world
and
essentially
they're
incentivized,
to
buy
wind
or
solar
once
a
year,
and
that's
just
how
it
is,
but
we
at
siba
know
that
you
need.
C
C
In
this
front,
we
need
an
all
across
the
grid,
so
we
know
that
there's
this
notion
of
next
generation
procurement-
and
this
is
you
know-
you-
you
probably
have
seen
some
pieces
from
from
alan
and
the
file
coin
community
about
you
know
wanting
to
find
ways
to
maximize
the
carbon
impact
of
your
decision
making.
So
that
you're-
not
just
you,
know,
dealing
with
this
annual
product.
C
C
Like
battery
storage,
because
there's
no
market
for
yet
there's
no
way
to
tag
them
in
the
way
that
I
just
explained
and
there's
no
way
to
actually
grab
the
real-time
carbon
data,
so
that
you
know
where,
where
you're
buying
clean
energy
actually
is,
has
the
biggest
bang
for
the
buck
in
terms
of
carbon
mitigation,
and
so
at
the
clean
energy
buyers
institute.
We
have
a
new
research
initiative
with
leaders
from
across
across
the
space
globally
to
solve
two
practical
problems.
C
C
There's
a
lot
of
text
here,
but
the
main
point
is
there
are
lots
of
things
that
companies
want
to
do
beyond
the
annual
solar
and
wind
purchase.
For
example,
companies
want
to
buy
clean
energy
matching
the
time,
their
actual
time-based
use
of
electricity.
They
want,
if
they're,
consuming
a
certain
amount
of
electricity
right
now
at
11,
25
central.
They
want
to
buy
clean
energy
at
11,
25
central.
So
that's
one
type
of
procurement
option.
C
That's
not
standardized
yet
that
we
want
to
enable
another
is
buying
clean
energy
from
the
most
carbon
intensive
grids,
for
example,
the
biggest
bang
for
the
buck
right
now
in
the
us,
I
believe,
is
the
us
midwest
and
buying
wind
from
the
midwest.
So
even
if
you're
not
located,
say
in
the
midwest,
you
might
be
somewhere
else
that
could
be
the
biggest
carbon
bang
for
the
buck.
C
Similarly,
you
might
want
to
buy
more
carbon
intensive
products
based
on
the
time
of
day,
to
send
different
demand
signals
so
that
we
can
power
on
solar
or
wind
rather
than
a
gas
plant
at
a
certain
time,
and
companies
are
also
trying
to
figure
out
how
do
they
cover
their
supply
chains,
both
upstream
and
downstream?
How
do
they
make
sure
those
the
products
they're
powering
their
products
and
services
with
are
clean
and
how
do
they
power?
How
do
they
enable
their
consumers
and
users
to
source
from
clean
energy?
C
And
so,
with
this
initiative
we
just
launched
this
we're.
Have
it's
it's
an
oak,
it's
an
open
initiative,
so
any
anybody
who's
interested
in
participating
to
inform
where
this
market
should
go
essentially
informing
the
user
stories
we're
developing
for
different
types
of
clean
energy
customers.
Certainly
welcome
you
to
participate.
We
have
our
our
first
workshop
for
clean
energy
buyers
coming
up
later
this
month.
C
So
that's!
This
is
the
end
of
the
brief
101
on
clean
energy
market.
So
now,
let's
go
into
what
is
the
role
of
blockchain
as
a
source
of
demand
in
the
clean
energy
sector
before
we
then
go
into
the
solutions,
so
the
crypto
industry,
you
know
most
people
know
about
it
or
a
lot
of
people
know
about
it
for
a
few
just
a
couple
of
reasons,
one
of
which
is
the
energy
consumption
issue.
C
I
think
it's
really
important
to
reframe
this
this
topic,
because
everything
we
do
in
our
world
consumes
energy
and
the
opportunity
here
is
not
to
critique
one
source
of
energy
versus
another,
but
to
power.
Make
use
it
as
a
force
for
good
to
create
those
demand,
signals
and
buy
more
clean
power
as
a
and
pointing
back
to
those
images
earlier
start
to
displace
coal
and
gas
and
other
polluting
sources
from
the
grid,
and
so
there's
a
huge
potential
here.
C
The
crypto
and
blockchain
sector
says
that
they're
trying
to
do
this
is
an
easy
way
to
make
a
pos,
have
a
positive
impact
on
the
globe
and
so
for
those
who
aren't
familiar
with
this
less
than
a
year
ago
was
involved
with
launching
the
crypto
climate
accord,
which
is
an
initiative
that
says
as
an
industry,
the
krypton
blockchain
industry.
Let's
develop
new
technologies,
new
solutions
using
decentralized
technologies
to
decarbonize
the
entire
sector.
So
let's
make
the
crypto
blockchain
sector
green
and
build
some
awesome
new
solutions
to
get
there
along
the
lines.
C
What
allen
was
talking
about
before
and
provide
a
couple
examples,
the
one
that
allen
was
talking
about
in
terms
of
the
file
coin.
Green
is
phenomenal.
It's
it's
leading
showcase
right
now
for
enabling
individual,
the
individual
parts
of
a
network
to
procure
clean
energy
and
prove
it
and
but
what's
exciting,
is
that
this
is
expanding
quickly
into
other
parts
of
the
crypto
sector.
So
we
know
that
there
are
blockchain
bitcoin
miners,
for
example,
who
are
looking
at
pursuing
a
similar
solution,
but
in
their
case
it's
looking
at
bitcoin
mining
pools.
C
So
it's
a
way
for
pool
operators
to
either
cover
the
cleaner,
the
energy
use
of
their
entire
pool
with
clean
energy
to
say
we're
a
green
pool
or
provide
a
service
for
this
for
those
miners
to
actually
procure
it
and
prove
it
for
their.
You
know
their
own
needs,
whether
it's
for
esg
investors
and
so
on.
C
Also
previously,
two
separate
blockchains
cover
their
entire
global
energy
use
per
year
with
clean
power,
the
xp
ledger
and
energy
web
chain,
and
what
I've
just
talked
about
is
on
the
supply
side
of
the
market,
those
who
actually
generate
the
crypt,
the
crypto
currencies
themselves.
And
then,
if
you
look
at
the
demand
side,
there's
actually
a
lot
of
interest
from
those
who
invest
or
hold
crypto.
So
what's
exciting
is
here
we're?
There
are
various
crypto
bulletin
exchanges
that
are
looking
at.
C
How
do
we
either
cover
the
historic
energy
use
of
our
crypto
holdings
with
an
equivalent
amount
of
clean
energy,
essentially
to
send
that
positive
demand
signal
to
the
industry
and
then
those
who
are
looking
to
automate
clean
energy
purchases
based
on
the
estimated
energy
use
of
trans
crypto
transactions?
So
anytime
you
make
a
transaction,
it
triggers
a
clean
energy
purchase.
You
get
the
proof,
so
it's
some
really
exciting
stuff,
that's
emerging!
C
C
Where
we
have
multiple
parties,
we
all
need
to
know
the
same
information
about
one
specific
thing
in
this
case
the
status
of
the
ownership
of
a
certificate
because
from
there
you
can
create
create
tools
to
embed
this
into
any
application
and
when
I
think
of
this
might
sound
a
bit
simplistic,
but
when
I
think
about
I'm
often
not
talking
with
crypto
folks
like
those
in
the
room
today.
So
when
I
think
about
blockchain
based
solutions
in
the
in
the
crypto
sector,
I
think
of
an
analogy
of
other
things
that
we
embed
into
apps.
C
Another
exciting
example-
and
it's
one
I'm
involved
with
as
a
co-founder
zero
labs.
So
what
xero
labs
is
doing
is
tackling
this.
Some
of
these
next
generation
procurement
topics
that
I
brought
up
earlier
in
terms
of
where
clean
energy
markets
are
going
solving
specifically
for
the
challenges
of
small
customers,
who
don't
currently
have
a
pathway
to
buy
clean
energy
because
they're
too
small
to
matter
and
then
more
specifically,
companies
that
have
a
large
user
or
customer
base
where
all
of
those
users
are
customers.
C
You
use
very
little
electricity
for
the
actual
transactions
or
their
use
of
an
app,
but
an
aggregate
can
become
quite
large,
so
what's
interesting
about
what
xero
labs
is
doing,
is
building
tools
where
you
can
aggregate
really
really
small
uses
of
electricity,
make
it
in
a
size.
That's
interesting
to
clean
energy
sellers
enable
sellers
to
digitize
their
supplies
match
and
then
using
blockchain
deliver
proof
of
the
certificates
having
been
made
available,
and
you
know
canceled
in
the
respective
tracking
systems.
C
So
it's
essentially
a
way
that,
from
that
complicated
schematic,
I
showed
earlier
for
the
whole
life
cycle
of
these
certificates.
Xero
labs
hides
that
com.
The
solution
hides
that
complexity
from
the
consumer.
They
just
simply
get
a
proof
that
they
bought
a
certificate.
That
was
real
and
they
can
send
this
demand
signal
in
the
market,
and
I
think,
what's
ultimately
really
exciting
too.
As
we
think
about
the
future
of
clean
energy
procurement,
it
starts
to
automate
clean
energy
purchases
into
the
background
of
our
apps.
You
don't
have
to
actually
do
anything
other
than
just
saying.
C
Another
exciting
solution
in
this
space
for
blockchain-based
tools
is
a
group
called
flexidao
startup
out
of
out
of
europe
and
what
they're
looking
is
this
notion
of
24
7
time-matched,
clean
energy?
The
point
I
brought
up
earlier
they're,
particularly
working
with
corporations
who
say
as
a
corporation,
you
know
some
some
have
a
goal
to
say.
C
To
show
that
all
these
issues
have
been
reconciled
and
delivered
delivered
to
the
end
corporate
customer,
the
proof
because
those
companies
want
to
be
able
to
say
that
they're
buying
you
know
they're
they're,
buying
clean
energy,
24
7.-
and
you
know
this
is
a
topic
that
big
you
know.
Very
notable.
Companies
like
google
and
others
are
prioritizing.
C
There's?
Maybe
some
more
talks
about
this
later,
and
this
is
a
bit
outside
of
the
clean
energy
space.
But
it's
you
can
think
of
it
as
a
a
brother
in
the
climate
solution
space
compared
to
renewable
energy
certificates.
There
are
groups
looking
at
digitizing
carbon
offsets
and
carbon
removal.
Carbon
offsets
essentially
our
way
to
erase
your
the
carbon
emissions
of
an
action
you
make
versus
carbon
removal
is
with
removing
carbon
from
the
air
as
it
is,
and
so
carbon
offsets
are
an
existing
space.
They
have
a
certificate
system
just
like
rex.
C
Carbon
removal
is
a
new
space
that
isn't
standardized
yet,
but
it's
exciting
and
both
both
of
these
markets
very
much
can
use
some
all
the
same
things
I
was
talking
about
today
in
terms
of
creating
digital
representations
of
the
certificates
canceling
them,
so
that
you
know
that
no
nobody
else
owns
the
same
certificate
and
then
there's
some
really.
You
know
fun
applications
to
create
more
demand
in
this
space.
C
The
last
last
example
for
now
this
is
not
a
technology
solution,
but
it's
in
terms
of
lots
of
times
technologies,
of
course
follow
guidance
and
standards,
and
so
there's
some
a
lot
of
exciting
work
by
groups
like
rmi,
where
I
also
used
to
work,
and
they
are
looking
at.
How
do
we
redesign
carbon
tracking
of
our
supply
chains
right
now,
if
you're
a
company
you're
trying
to
figure
out
what's
the
carbon
impact
of
your
supply
chain,
it
is
a
mess
you've.
C
C
So
with
that,
thank
you
very
much.
Anybody
who's
keen
to
engage
in
the
first
initiative
I
talked
around
about
in
terms
of
shaping
the
future
of
clean
energy
procurement
and
the
standards
and
where
the
wreck
goes,
because
it
is
going
to
change
to
a
certain
extent
please
reach
out.
I
would
love
to
have
a
conversation
to
get
you
involved
in
these
workshops.
We
have
coming
and
then
also
keep
an
eye
out
on
some
of
the
solutions.
I
was
talking
about.
There's
some
really
exciting
work,
and
thanks
again
for
having
me.
A
Well,
that's
embarrassing!
Okay!
So
if
you
are
watching
the
live
stream
and
you've
got
questions
for
our
speakers
and
then
you
can
tweet
at
falcoid,
green
or
use
the
hashtag
falcoingreen
and
our
wonderful
social
elfs
will
find
your
speaker.
Ask
them
the
question
and
get
back
to
you
online.
With
an
answer.
I
will
let
us
we're
going
to
do
some
furniture
suggling
for
the
moment.
G
F
A
I
F
J
So
welcome
everybody
happy
to
be
here,
I'm
michael
casey,
I'm
the
chief
content
officer
at
coindesk.
I
just
to
give
a
little
bit
of
background.
I
sort
of
have
been
engaged
in
the
sustainable
blockchain
space
for
a
while,
though,
because
before
joining
coindesk,
I
was
at
mit
at
the
digital
currency
initiative,
where
I
worked
on
some
solar
initiatives
in
relation
to
funding
distributed
solar
projects
in
puerto
rico
and
elsewhere.
So
it's
always
been
a
passion
of
mine.
J
So
I'm
very
happy,
thank
you
mark
for
dragging
me
back
into
this
space,
also
just
as
a
plug
the
money
reimagine
podcast
that
I
do
weekly
with
sheila
warren,
formerly
of
the
watercolor
forum.
Now
of
the
the
council
for
crypto
innovation,
we
founded
an
event,
a
a
body
called
the
crypto
sustainability
impact
accelerator
or
cser
at
the
watercoming
forum,
to
really
sort
of
bring
multi-stakeholder
arrangements
together
to
work
on
the
kinds
of
solutions
that
are
being
discussed
here
today.
So
that's
my
own
little
pitch.
J
K
P
J
So
I
suppose
my
challenge
to
all
of
you
was
like
okay,
so
the
administration
wants
solutions
that
are
climate-friendly.
What
do
we
tell
them
like?
What
is
what
is
the
message
to
the
world
right
now
about
how
blockchain
can
be
constructive,
rather
than
you
know
this,
this
sort
of
horrible
threat
that
everyone
seems
to
talk
about?
Why
don't
you
give
a
shout
out
that
quickly
harrison.
L
Yeah,
you
said
sort
of
something
really
interesting
in
our
in
our
green
room
as
it
were
that
we
we
can't
just
leave
with
sticks.
We
have
to
leave
with
carrots,
and
I
think
that
there's
an
opportunity
here
to
bring
carbon
on
chain,
which
is
a
lot
of
the
work
that
I
focus
on,
to
sort
of
create
a
secondary
market
and
instead
of
being
punitive
more
of
like
a
rewarding
system
and
so
creating,
like
you,
know,
incentivizing
more.
N
No,
I
I
certainly
agree
with
all
of
that.
The
additionally
part
of
the
challenge
is
how
do
we
bring
about
transparency
and,
although
that
seems
really
easy,
like
oh
well,
we'll
just
put
all
the
information
on
the
blockchain,
as
it
turns
out,
there's
a
lot
of
of
company
secrets
that
they
don't
want
on
the
blockchain
specifically
around
their
manufacturing
processes,
and
so
how
do
we?
How
do
we
both
be
transparent,
as
well
as
preserve
confidentiality
ality?
J
O
Yeah,
I
think
that
when
we're
talking
about
blockchain,
we
need
to
keep
in
mind
that
we're
not
talking
about
the
bitcoin
blockchain
necessarily
and
that's
what
a
lot
of
people
think
about
when
we
mention
the
word
blockchain,
they
all
think
hey
bitcoin
and
bitcoin
energy
intensive
bad.
So
how
can
we
possibly
use
that
for
doing
something
good
for
the
climate?
But
the
thing
is
most
blockchain
platforms
don't
run
on
the
same
energy,
intensive
mining
algorithm
that
bitcoin
is
using,
so
it's
not
fair
and
representative
for
the
rest
of
the
space.
O
P
J
Great
I've
just
changed
my
structure
of
where
this
conversation
is
going
to
go.
Thank
you
very
much
steve.
I
was
gonna,
do
softballs
to
you
all
and
get
you
a
chance
to
say
here's.
What
is
what
coinbase
is
doing
is
what
microsoft
is
doing,
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
but
no
we're
gonna
do
the.
How
do
we
be
good
stewards
conversation?
I
think
this
is
an
excellent
place
to
start
because
it
feeds
into
some
stuff
that
you
talk
about
alex
like
what
is
the
right
blockchain.
How
do
we
deal
with
energy
consumption?
J
How
do
we
get
the
right
balance
right
between
what
is
this
doing
good
for
the
world,
the
ultimate
solutions,
and
then
the
fact
that
you
know
there's
a
lot
about
our
space
that
isn't
necessarily
driving
society
in
that
right
direction
right?
So
it's
a
just
a
call
to
action.
You
know
so
yeah
harrison
I
mean
you,
you
guys.
You've
got
a
broad
portfolio
of
adventures,
you're
one
of
the
biggest
players
in
crypto
you
in
some
respects.
Are
you
have
a
moral
obligation
to
set
the
standard
here,
your
coin
base
right?
J
J
J
Q
N
So
I
mean
this
is
something
that
microsoft
is
is
very
committed
to.
We
have
a
one
billion
dollar
fund,
specifically
to
invest
in
sustainable
practices
for
carbon
capture
and
carbon
reduction,
and
so
so
we
are
very
committed
to
this
and
I
love
the
urgency
in
this
room
around
it
because
that's
uncommon.
M
N
A
lot
of
work
that
we've
got
to
do
to
get
there,
but
but
we
are,
we
are
aggressively
moving
towards
it,
and
so
so
so
that's
that's
the
first
part.
How
do
we?
How
do
we
make
what
we're
doing
today
in
crypto,
more
sustainable?
But
beyond
that?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
really
take
a
a
data-backed
approach
to
tackling
scope?
Three
emissions
right
so
go
through
emissions,
which
is
for
those
who
don't
know.
J
Important
challenge,
but
I
think
it
also
in
some
respects,
speaks
to
the
some
of
the
stuff
that
alan
was
talking
about
the
sort
of
the
sheer
impossibility
of
measuring
these
ecosystems
with
these
outdated
tools
right,
so
that,
once
you
talk
about
the
different
stages
of
a
supply
chain,
the
world
becomes
incredibly
complex
and
so
we'll
get
to
that.
But
let's
stick
with
this
for
a
moment:
let's
get
to
the
blockchain
which
blockchain,
what
type
of
consensus
algorithm
conversation
because
alex
that's.
You
know
something
that
you've
brought
a
lot
of
attention
to.
R
J
What
should
the
community
be
doing
in
response
to
that?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
deal
with
that?
I
mean
I.
I
don't
personally
think
bitcoin
is
going
to
go
away
anywhere
and,
in
fact,
there's
an
argument
to
say
that
if
we
were
to
shut
it
down
in
one
place,
it
would
simply
move
to
a
even
dirtier
place
right,
and
you
mentioned
kazakhstan.
That
may
be
an
example
of
that
right.
So
how
do
we
deal
with
this
right?
How
do
and
with
this
conversation
of
carrots
versus
sticks,
what's
your
take
on?
J
O
Yeah,
it's
it's
a
very
complex
matter
because,
ultimately
in
bitcoin
we're
talking
about
the
energy
intensive
mining
process
and
the
thing
there
is
that
that's
that's
something
you
can
participate
in
anywhere
in
the
world.
So
now
we
saw
that
previously
a
lot
of
this
activity
was
taking
place
in
china.
China
last
year
said:
okay,
we
don't
want
this
in
our
country
anymore,
and
these
miners
are
responsible
for
the
revival
of
some
of
these
idle
coal
mines
that
we
have
so
we're
done
with
it.
O
We're
gonna
kick
it
out
and
then
the
next
thing
we
see
happen
is
that
a
lot
of
those
miners
are
indeed
migrating
to
places
like
kazakhstan,
but
also
here
in
the
u.s,
and
as
a
result
of
that,
we
even
see
the
carbon
intensity
of
the
network
going
up
even
further.
So
you
can
say
well.
Banning
crypto
mining
in
one
places
is
probably
not
the
right
solution,
but
then
you
can
really
wonder
what
what
is
the
right
solution?
And
it's
it's.
O
It's
really
tough
to
come
up
with
an
ultimate
answer
that,
but
because
of
what
I
just
said,
that's
something
that
you
can
ultimately
do
in
every
household.
Everyone
can
put
a
bitcoin
mining
device
in
their
own
house,
and
I
wish
you
good
luck
with
cracking
down
on
that.
If
you're
a
government
hey,
are
we
going
to
raid
everyone's
homes?
I
don't
think
so.
So
it's
it's!
O
But
a
lot
of
people
don't
realize
that
in
order
to
hold
people
accountable,
we
also
need
to
have
carbon
accounting
standards
and
we
don't
even
have
those
at
the
moment
there
is
no
carbon
accounting
standard
for
this
space
and
we
just
heard
scope
3
emissions,
but
what
what
kind
of
emissions
are
we
supposed
to
allocate
to
whom
that's
still
a
question
that
is
unanswered,
so
I
think
a
logical
next
step
would
be
to
start
developing
these
frameworks
and
make
sure
that
we
can.
We
can
hold
people
accountable
and
we
should
be
taking
it
from
there.
S
J
Found
the
word
thinking
that,
like
we
do
need
to
form
these
standards
right
and
we
need
everybody
at
the
table.
It
just
can't
be
the
crypto
community.
You've
got
to
have
energy
companies
and
everybody
else.
I
think
that's
a
really
a
really
important
point
like
this
base,
understanding
about
what
we're
actually
measuring
and
what
we're
taking
on.
But
let's
stick
with
this
steve.
You
know
as
a
member
of
the
c-suite
of
ethereum
inc.
Sorry,
that's
a
joke
consensus.
J
P
It
I'll
end
yeah,
okay,
it's
the
answer.
Is
it's
not
enough?
Okay,
and-
and
that's
the
most
important
point
I
can.
I
can
urge
my
colleagues
who
have
any
relationship
falcone
has
a
wonderful
relationship
to
the
ethereum
community.
Is
that
proof
of
stake?
Isn't
enough?
I
I
talk
to
my
colleagues
on
the
engineering
side
and
they
say
if
they
speak
as
engineers.
Well,
we've
solved
it
right.
S
P
And
he
is
the
measure,
and,
and
now
this
ucl
thing
has
just
come
up,
which
is
interesting
and
and
and
we've
taken
the
time
to
rerun
those
ucl
numbers
and
and
they're
interesting
numbers.
The
I
would
say
I
I
I'd
say
this
number
one
proof
of
stake
is
not
enough.
It's
just
the
beginning
number
two.
We
need
to
take
pages
from
each
other's
books.
I
I
take
a
page
from
the
microsoft
book.
P
I
think
brad
and
and
lucas
deserved
a
tremendous
amount
of
credit,
and
I
do
think
it
actually
probably
starts
with
bill
gates
who,
for
all
the
goodies
he
has
in
the
world.
We
can
actually
give
him
a
little
more
credit
even
than
that,
which
is
to
say
I
I
think
the
leadership
to
declare
microsoft,
that
we
are
not
just
going
to
clean
up
our
current
footprint,
but
we
are
going
to
clean
up
our
historical
footprint.
P
I
I
think,
is
a
movement
that
that
I
think
should
be
credited,
probably
is
to
some
degree
starting
at
microsoft
and
needs
to
permeate
everywhere,
including
the
crypto
community.
So
proof
of
stake
is
just
the
beginning.
I
think
we
have
to
look
at
what
you
know,
what
what
we've
wrought
and
take
responsibility
for
it,
as
quote
stewards
and
and
and
address
it
as
a
company
we're
going
about
it
in
a
variety
of
ways.
P
We
have
the
the
full
intention
and
I
expect
we
will
achieve
it-
of
of
beco
operating
on
a
carbon
zero
basis
starting
this
year
or
carbon
neutral
space
is
the
best
we
can
achieve.
I
think
starting
this
year,
but
over
time,
especially
thanks
to
proof
mistake.
I
think
we
can
get
there.
We've
run
the
ucl
numbers.
Interestingly,
I
know
that
was
a
sort
of
blip
in
the
press.
P
I
think
they
actually
proved
99.5
that
we're
going
to
get
to
99.5
if
we
use
their
numbers,
which
is
great,
but
that's
going
to
leave
point
five
percent
of
freaking
netherlands,
so
we've
we
still
have
something
to
do
on
a
go-forward
basis.
We
are
working
with
the
unf
triple
c
and
weirdly
enough.
The
paris
accords
are
based
in
bond
welcome
to
the
new
world
and
we
work
very
closely
with
them
in
a
variety
of
areas
where
we
think
blockchain
can
make
a
difference.
One
is
in
greening
the
green
bond
space.
P
P
One
of
the
fintech
projects
is
going
to
be
to
work
to
see
if
what
we
can
do
to
help
green
the
green
bond
space.
Another
project
that
we're
working
on
is,
we
have
built
a
carbon
credits
on
blockchain
trading
system.
Toucan
was
mentioned,
toucan
is
a
terrific
organization.
I
can
say
that
toucan
got
its
first
money
from
the
blockchain
social
impact
coalition,
which
which
the
consensus
helped
to
launch.
I
was
actually
on
the
hackathon
committee
that
gave
rafael
his
first
money
to
ken
became
toucan.
P
It's
great,
so
you
figured
out
how
to
move
what
is
a
data-based
financial
asset,
a
carbon
credit
and
move
it
over
into
onto
our
ledgering
system,
which
is
which
is
a
great
beginning.
We're
we're
looking
to
sort
of
now
automate
the
trading
side
of
all
of
that
and
and
and
thirdly,
we're
looking
to
play
our
part
as
ethereum
nice
joke,
but
the
the
truth
is
we.
P
You
know
joe
lubin,
who
I
have
the
privilege
to
work
with,
sees
his
role,
both
in
a
business
and
a
movement
of
sorts,
and
obviously
I
take
that
pretty
seriously.
I
think
we
have
the
opportunity
to
go
from
laggards
to
leaders
in
this
space
this
precisely
this
year,
the
because
you
can't
clean
other
people's
houses
until
you
cleaned
up
your
own
and
I
think
after
pos
we
have
an
opportunity
to
be
the
leaders
for
the
first
time
we
should
we.
We
need
to
be.
J
And
the
thing
that
suddenly
got
my
attention:
there
was
you
referenced
microsoft,
its
own
corporate
commitment
right
and,
if
paul
brody,
who
was
going
to
be
here,
were
here.
He
would
be
jumping
up
about
this
right,
because
there
is
paul
talks
about
how
much
treasury
money
is
sitting
at
responsible
companies
like
microsoft
and
apple
and
others
that
is
absolutely
committed
to
these
zero
carbon
targets
right.
They
don't
know
whether
to
put
it,
they.
J
Put
they're
desperate
to
find
assets
that
can
return
this.
This
need
good.
Well,
let's
see
hear
from
you
at
the
at
the
end,
we'll
get
some
questions,
that'd
be
great
and
and
so
like,
and
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
paul
you
know
has
been
exploring
you
know
is:
how
do
we
take
the
the
flywheel
effect
of
speculation
and
energy
that
really
is
defy
and
crypto
right?
It's
about
making
money.
J
How
do
you
sort
of
tie
that
align
that
with
this,
this
huge
investment
possibility,
because
we
need
trillions
of
dollars
of
investment
to
to
get
the
world
into
a
safe
space?
So
thoughts
on
that
like?
How
do
we
take
crypto?
What
crypto
is
really
good
at
a
bunch
of
things?
But
what
it's
it's
first
use
case
is
speculation
right.
It's
done
a
really
good
job
of
driving
speculation.
How
do
we
align
that
with
investing
in
in
you
know
what
we
need
as
a
planet.
M
L
J
J
N
N
T
N
The
scale
where,
where
that
can
that
can
be
sustainable
long
term,
so
it's
things
things
of
that
nature
were
invested
in
in
low
carbon
avgas.
We're
invested
in
carbon
capture
technologies
right.
All
of
these
things
need
to
come
together
in
order
to
bring
us
to
a
to
a
lower
carbon
future,
and
all
of
them
need
to
be
jump
started,
and
so
that's
something
that
that
we
are
actively
investing
in
and
none
of
this
is
secret.
This
is
all
on
our.
J
P
If
I
may,
I
I
think
doug
pointed
us
to
to
something
very
much
as
he
does
in
in
the
right
direction,
which
is
real-time
monitoring
of
energy
use.
It
is
a
perfect
I
mean
you
know,
even
people
who
know
just
a
little
bit
about
the
blockchain
and
and
it's
sheila
knows
well
the
the
relationship.
She
knows
a
lot
about
it,
the
relationship
of
blockchain
to
supply
chain.
Anybody
who
knows
anything
about
blockchain
understands
that
we
need
to.
We
could
be
the
architect
of
real-time
data
in
around
energy
use.
P
We
don't
have
to
create
the
esg
movement.
The
esg
movement
is
here.
It
may
not
be
everything
we
want
it
to
be,
but
it's
already
leaks
ahead
of
where
it
was
a
few
years
ago.
So,
if
you
combined
the
current
momentum
toward
esg
with
real-time
data,
real-time
data,
not
the
once
a
year
that
that
alan
was
talking
about
the
once
a
year
offsetting.
But
if
it's
done
real
time,
you've
really
transformed
the
place
in
a
in
a
huge
way
that
takes
us
way
further
toward
1.5
than
we
are
now
so
I'd
say.
P
If
I
were
going
to
focus
investment
in
one
area,
it
would
be
on
real-time
verification
and
reporting
of
energy
use
using
web3
and
and
then
leave
the
forces
of
business,
and
you
know
you,
the
coin
you're,
it's
interesting,
the
coinbase
answer
was:
could
we
productize
this?
Well,
that's
the
right
answer,
because
everybody.
P
The
thing
they
do
to
contribute
and
if
coinbase
could
productize
it
and
consensus,
could
build
some
infrastructure
and
ditch
economists
can
keep
us
honest
and
microsoft
can
show
the
corporate
world
what
what
what
a
serious
commitment
looks
like
we're.
Each
doing
the
thing
we
do
to
to
get
us
there
and-
and
I
think
we
can
make
a
big
difference
when
to
meeting
again
next
year
and
sort
of
looking
at
what
we
accomplished
in
22.
P
O
Make
something
real
on
top
of
a
blockchain,
and
you
know
I
previously
worked
at
a
audit
and
consulting
company,
and
a
lot
of
the
initiative
I
saw
coming
by
was
like.
Can
we
do
something
like
carbon
credits
on
top
of
a
blockchain?
That's
that's!
That's
something
I
I
used
to
hear
a
lot
and
well
the
the
reason
why
that's
being
thought
about
is
in
the
context
of
carbon
offsets.
O
Carbon
offsets
are
unfortunately,
quite
often
counted
more
than
once
once
by
the
seller
once
by
the
buyer,
and
if
you
have
this
double
counting
going
on,
people
sometimes
think
hey
double
spending,
that's
something
I
heard
in
the
context
of
blockchain,
so
maybe
that
that
can
help
out.
But
you
know
one
of
one
of
the
the
the
key
challenges
we
we
saw.
O
J
Yeah,
that's
a
it's
another
good
segue,
because
the
you
know
it's
often
referred
to
as
the
last
mile
problem
you
know,
or
the
garbage
in
garbage
out
problem
that
on
chain
data
is
is
trustworthy.
But
how
do
you
bring
off
chain
data
in?
But
there's
a
lot
of
work
going
on
this
space
right?
There's.
A
lot
of
you
know
trusted
computing
stuff,
there's
like
all
sorts
of
satellite
imaging
solutions,
there's
there's
all
sorts
of
things
and-
and
I
do
think
personally-
that
yeah
props
to
your
prior
profession.
J
You
know
auditors
are
going
to
play
a
key
role
in
this,
but
they've
just
got
to
become
up-to-date
on
on
on
what
is
needed
by
you
know
a
decentralized
distributed
system,
but
maybe
to
you
adam,
because
you
know
you
are
looking
at
things
like
you
know:
scope
three
emissions
and
the
like
in
measuring
supply
chain
impacts.
How
do
you
deal
with
the
problem
that
you
know
alex
was
referring
to
there
of
okay?
J
J
It
is
a
great
book,
but
she
she,
you
know
the
work
that
she
did
after
just
demonstrated
once
again
that
ultimately
on
the
blockchain
there's
nowhere
to
hide
and
and
to
me
that
strikes
me
as
possibly
an
answer
to
this
problem
right
because
you
will
get
caught.
Eventually,
there
isn't
a
trend.
There
is
a
transparency
and
a
traceability
that
makes
it
harder
at
least
to
hide.
So
I
don't
know
if
you've
thought
through
any
of
that,
and
you
know
how
you
go
about
what
your
strategy
is
with
regards
to
the
data
problem,
what.
P
But
what
one
thought
is
satellites.
Of
course
I
mean
if,
if
you
twos
in
1962
could
see
a
single
missile
on
the
cuban
island,
then
satellites
today
can
count
trees
and
it's
just
a
matter
of
connecting
to
the
data.
I
think
I
I
could
be
incredibly
naive,
you're
all
way
ahead
of
me
in
like
science
class,
but
but
I
have
to
believe
this
is
possible.
Well.
N
S
J
F
Q
I'm
one
of
the
founders
of
pump
check
power,
we're.
We
are
a
power
provider
here
in
the
aircon
market.
We
recently
just
spun
out
a
company
called
cryptopower,
the
first
and
only
power
provider
powering
the
blockchain
outside
of
what
the
blockchain
does
stabilizing
the
ercot.
Great
a
question
I
have
to
you
guys
is
of
how
you
view
sustainability.
Q
I
just
helped
a
mining
group
basically
build
a
mining
facility
at
a
natural
gas
plant.
They
are
essentially
taking
the
co2
produced
from
that
gas
plant
and
recycling
it
to
cool
their
their
operations.
So
I
think,
from
a
standpoint
of
I
love
green
energy.
I
totally
believe
solar
battery
wind
in
the
right
markets,
nuclear
long
term,
but
our
our
approach,
my
question
is,
in
terms
of
you
know
not
demonizing
fossil
fuels.
O
Oh,
you
know
the
the
the
thing
is
when,
when
we
look
at
bitcoin
miners
and-
and
you
know,
there's
there's
so
many
different
examples
of
how
they're
using
energy-
and
one
of
those
examples
is
the
one
popular
one
recently
is
they've
been
using
gas.
That
would
otherwise
be
flared
and
they're
saying
okay.
O
At
least
the
impact
is
the
same,
how
we're
not
worsening
any
impact,
and
you
can
actually
think
of
that
as
a
as
a
great
argument,
and
but
the
only
issue
is
that
we
we're
also
seeing
a
lot
of
initiatives
right
now
to
just
completely
prohibit
routine
flaring.
There
is
a
zero
routine
flowering
initiative,
hoping
to
end
flaring
altogether
by
2030.
O
new
mexico
recently
decided
just
last
year
to
prohibit
flaring
as
of
2026.
So
companies
are
going
to
be
required
to
capture
the
gas
instead
of
flaring
it,
and
you
know
if
you're
capturing
it,
you
can
also
use
it
to
displace
some
kind
of
other
fossil
fuel
source.
So
in
that
case,
you're,
hey
you're,
not
making
things
worse,
but
you
could
have
used
that
capture
gas
to
make
things
better.
O
P
P
C
P
C
So
and
the
one
the
one
thing
to
add
to
it,
too,
is
why
it's
so
exciting
to
look
at
crypto.
Solutions,
for
this
is
the
whole
mantra,
of
course,
is
verify.
Don't
trust
right
now,
the
way
the
sector
works
is
companies
say
I'm
100
clean
powered
and
it's
in
my
books,
but
you
can't
see
my
books.
This
is
a
way
to
use
the
space
to
actually
confirm
they
are
100
covered,
we're
good
to
go,
and
then
it
it
actually
verifies
it.
It's
not
just
taking
somebody's
word
for
it.
J
So
I'm
just
going
to
like
again
use
my
moderator's
prerogative
here
and
just
to
say
a
couple
of
comments,
because
I've
thought
and
written
quite
a
bit
about
this.
I
think
the
gas
flaring
thing
is
is
you're,
absolutely
right,
there's
really
no
net
gain,
it's
still,
ultimately
still
producing
that
gas.
So
the
question
is
you
know?
How
do
we
actually
make?
J
You
know
net
renewable
additional
energy
solutions
become
attractive
to
bitcoin
miners
right
and
and
that
and
that
takes
investment,
and
we
know
that
solar
isn't
going
to
be
as
efficient
as
some
of
these
things,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
there
isn't
a
math
model
out
there
that
could
make
this
work.
If
there
were
to
be
you
know,
various
other
incentives
and
so
grid
managers
and
other
policy
managers
and
energy.
J
I
think,
have
a
real
opportunity
here
and
texas
has
done
some
interesting
things,
I'm
not
sure
they've
gotten
it
quite
right,
given
the
problems
they
had
a
year
ago,
but
there
is
some
really
interesting
models
right
where
bitcoin
is
bitcoin,
miners
are
paid
to
turn
off
their
mines
when
there
is
a
spike
in
in
energy.
So
the
management
of
the
duck
curve
problem
and
all
these
things,
the
role
that
bitcoin
miners
could
play
and
all
that
to
be
partners
with
you
know
local
energy
producers
and
think
about
this
from
this
ecosystem
perspective
right
this.
J
This
is
about
all
the
different
pieces
coming
together,
rather
than
you
know.
I
think
these
these
pools
being
provably
green,
is
great
doug,
but
there's
also
the
other
side
of
it
was
like
how
do
we
actually
work
together
collectively,
because
bitcoin
isn't
going
away
right
so
taking
it
out
of
kazakhstan
incentivizing
it
into
these
models?
Is
it
whether
it's
you
know
local
small
hydro,
farms
or
wind
farms
or
whatever
it
is?
J
There's
there's
the
capacity
now
to
actually
earn
money
in
the
most
remote
places,
there's
business
opportunities
that
come
with
that
with
bitcoin
and
there's
there's
models
that
can
be
built
around
it.
So
I
think,
there's
there's
a
higher
level
conversation
that
needs
to
happen
rather
than
just
the
technicals
amanda.
You
had
your
hand
up.
I
I
I
run
metagood,
which
has
unchained
monkey.
We
are
all
on
chain
in
a
single
ethereum
transaction,
which
is
slightly
better
for
the
environment,
we're
still
running
on
each
so
we're
trying
to
think
of
as
we
work
with
other
collections.
What
else
can
we
be
doing
to
be
more
sustainable
as
an
nft
collection.
O
Know
in
one
minute
now
the
the
thing
with
nfts
is
that
you
know
they're
an
application
and
you
have
a
choice
where
you
want
to
build
that
application,
so
you
can
either
run
it
on
ethereum
or
you
can
use
run
it
on
some
other
platform.
That's
already
running
on
proof
of
stake.
I
like
ethereum,
is
planning
to
do
and
even
if
you're,
building
on
ethereum,
you
can
be
like
okay
they're
going
to
switch
to
proof
of
stake
pretty
soon
so
in
instead
of
trying
to
avoid
ethereum.
O
Maybe
we
should
you
know
for
the
well-being
try
to
do
carbonyl,
setting
at
least
if
ethereum,
really
they
do
have
to
succeed
in
making
that
change
the
proof
of
stake
happen,
but
that
could
be
a
somewhat
intermediate
solution
for
the
coming
months
and
then
there's
also
an
option
to
use
hand
layer
two
solution,
there's
polygon,
which
still
works
together
with
ethereum.
So
the
carbon
footprint
is
still
a
thing,
but
less
of
an
issue
than
it
is.
If
you're
running
on
ethereum
directly,
so
there's
a
choice
you
can
make
there.
P
Oh
great
yeah,
no
just
one
quick
thing.
I
mean
for
you
for
you
specifically
amanda
that
when
we
built
pom
launched
the
palm
nft
blockchain
first
of
all
was
built
on
ibft.
It's
a
conversation
we
can
have,
but
but
a
pretty
clean
chain
the
palm
network.
But
but
we
actually,
I
think,
I
think,
of
coinbase
as
being
a
sort
of
first
cousin
to
andreessen
and
andreessen
has
a
project
called
patch
and
we
integrated
palm
with
patch.
So
we're
belt
and
suspenders.
A
Awesome,
thank
you
so
much
everybody.
Thank
you
so
much
to
michael
for
being
an
amazing
moderator
as
well
and
a
quick
plug
for
one
of
our
talks.
Later
we
were
talking
about
verification
and
kind
of
figuring
out
how
many
trees
are
planted.
Well,
the
fabulous
folks
at
gaine
forest
are
solving
that
problem
and
they
will
be
talking
later
this
afternoon.
So
there
you
go
a
little
segway.
A
A
A
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
R
R
F
R
Hi
everyone,
my
name,
is
ori
ayodele
and
I
am
the
newest
member
of
the
foul
coin
green
team.
So
I
am
the
falcon
green
program
administrator,
so
nice
to
meet
all
of
you
and
I'll
be
working
with
all
of
you
guys
in
the
near
future,
and
I
wanted
to
present
olya
airzak
and
she
is
the
ceo
co-founder
of
frost
methane
and
she
will
be
talking
about
offsets
and
how
their
critical
complex
tool.
V
Uh-Huh
excellent
hi
everyone,
so,
with
all
of
the
really
great
things
we
heard
about
procure
clean
electricity,
you
might
be
wondering
why
would
you
want
an
offset
right?
So
I
think
a
lot
of
you
run
data
centers,
and
so
you
may
have
port
some
concrete
for
your
data
center
and
in
your
area
there
may
or
may
not
be
any
like
zero
emissions
concrete
available.
You
may
not
be
able
to
pressure
your
upstream
suppliers
for
your
computers
right.
V
I
worked
at
google,
which
was
one
of
the
first
places
of
the
large
tech
companies
to
work
hard
neutral,
so
they've
thought
a
lot
about
offsets
and
also
around
this
company,
which
mitigates
methane
and
what
started
the
entire
thing.
Is
these
crazy
methane
vents
in
siberia
that
you
know
formed
hills
and
exploded?
And
it's
like
cool?
V
Well,
if
you
want
to
mitigate
that
source
of
methane,
like
what
are
your
choices
as
like
somebody
that
wants
to
do
this
project
right
and
the
beautiful
thing
about
carbon
markets
is
that
you
can
develop
a
methodology
in
order
for
this
kind
of
stuff
to
count
and
stack
up
against
all
the
other
ways
in
which
you
can
mitigate
climate
change,
so
that
kind
of
led
me
to
diving
pretty
deep
into
what's
the
infrastructure
of
carbon
markets?
Okay,
so
you
know
everybody.
V
So
I
think
that
that's
the
kind
of
one
of
the
best
global
ways
of
taking
this
into
account
taking
externalities
into
account
on
the
economy,
okay,
so
real,
quick,
why?
I
think
it's
great
the
cost,
which
I
mentioned
before
innovation.
So
when
you've
got
when
you
find
this
weird
methane
source
in
the
arctic
right,
you
can
go
and
have
a
methodology
and
get
paid
and
scale
and
stack
up
against
all
the
other
ways
of
doing
that
right.
V
Your
alternatives,
in
the
absence
of
that
is
to
like
convince
the
government
to
do
this,
or,
like
start
a
non-profit
for
every
type
of
thing,
and
then
it's
like
to
some
extent.
How
well
are
you
advertising,
as
opposed
to
how
low
cost
high
quality?
Is
this
thing,
it's
kind
of
mostly
global,
there's
some
really
low
cost
ways
of
mitigating
carbon
in
the
developing
world,
and
we
don't
want
it
to
go
the
way
of
europe
of
like
hey,
let's
shave,
all
of
our
trees
right
develop,
and
then
we
plant
some
of
them.
V
If
we
still
have
the
native
species
left
some
amount
of
fairness
right.
So
there's
like
countries
that
are
responsible
for
the
for
the
carbon
that
exists
in
the
atmosphere
right
now
and
those
are
typically
the
countries
paying
for
this
to
happen
somewhere
else.
Better
data
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
emissions
that
are
not
currently
measured
right.
So
methane,
like
really
just
recently
started,
getting
measured
and
we're
still
being
surprised
right.
You
see.
Sometimes
these
large
large
step
functions
in
oh
turns
out.
Rice
produces
a
whole
lot
of
methane
right.
V
So
sometimes
when
these
methodologies,
when
you
try
to
mitigate
something,
you
measure
something
that
maybe
wasn't
previously
measured
and,
of
course,
externalities
so
common
criticism
right,
gaming's
right
was
that
tree
actually
going
to
get
cut
down.
So
we'll
talk
about
that
later,
overhead,
the
cost
of
validation.
So
who
does
the
project
developer,
get
the
money
or
do
the
people
validating
and
the
brokers
get
the
money
and
a
lot
of
folks
say
well?
Why
is
you
know?
V
Why
should
google
or
other
large
corporations
be
offsetting
rather
than
reducing
their
missions
and
turns
out
that
sometimes
you
just
don't,
have
control
over
your
supply
chain
all
right?
So
if
some
of
you
are
going
to
be
offset
buyers,
here's
the
type
of
things
that
you
should
think
about
to
evaluate
them
right.
So,
first
additionality,
if
you
didn't
pay
them,
was
this
going
to
happen.
V
It's
like.
Let's
say
you
have
a
piece
of
forest
and
you
posted
armed
guards
around
that
piece
of
forest,
and
now
it's
going
to
be
protected
great.
But
what
was
the
underlying
reason
that
people
were
trying
to
cut
it
down
right
with
these,
like
farmers
that,
like
needed,
more
farmland
at
which
point
well,
they
didn't
cut
down
this
piece
of
forest
they'll
just
go,
and
do
it
right.
V
Next
to
that-
and
in
that
case,
can
you
prove
that
you
mitigated
the
core
of
why
that
force
was
going
to
get
cut
down
as
opposed
to
just
posted
some
on
guards
and
like
pushed
the
problem
just
a
little
bit
down
the
road
right?
So
that's
like
a
really
big
one
for
leakage,
which
again
is
a
problem
in
some
types
of
offsets,
but
not
in
all
of
them.
Folks,
like
the
gold
standards,
look
a
lot
of
other
benefits.
V
Their
biodiversity
increases
their
like
empowerment,
so
on
secondary
invalidation
risk
is
not
relevant
to
volunteer
markets,
but
it
is
some
compliance
markets,
which
is
how
well
was
the
validation
like
really
done,
and
of
course
you
have
to
look
at
some
unintended
consequences.
Were
people
displaced
as
a
result
of
this
project.
What
are
the
chances
of
gaming?
You
know?
V
Are
there
predictable
amounts
of
it
and
so
on,
and
there
are
both
independent
rating
agencies
now
that
are
starting
to
pop
up,
like
silvera
from
london,
for
example,
that
are
trying
to
say
well,
okay,
there
are
some
imperfections
in
the
existing
way
of
validation,
but
could
we
tell?
Could
we
do
an
independent
kind
of
validation,
of
whatever
the
chances
of
these
risks
and
then
there's
brokers
that
you
sort
of
trust
to
have
an
extra
layer
on
top
of
the
normal
infrastructure?
But
there's
kind
of
a
question
of
like
wait.
V
Why
do
you
need
an
extra
layer
on
top
of
the
infrastructure?
In
some
sense,
should
the
infrastructure
already
handle
this?
So
what
does
the
infrastructure
look
like?
Okay,
so
you've
got
the
registries
right,
there's,
basically,
four
of
them
and
they
all
kind
of
coordinate
with
each
other.
The
registries,
the
project
developers,
the
project
developers
is
kind
of
like
us.
V
Validators
are,
let's
call
them
auditors
on
steroids,
right,
they'll
work
together
to
develop
a
new
methodology,
so
somebody
comes
up
with
whatever
crazy
way
of
mitigating
climate
change
and
then
all
of
these
three
things
work
together
in
a
very
well-defined
way
to
develop
a
methodology
and
a
methodology
is
to
say
well
how
do
you
measure
this
thing,
but
also
like
rear
frost
methane?
If
there
was
an
evil
frost
methane?
V
Is
it
possible
for
an
auditor
to
tell
the
difference
all
right,
and
so
that's
the
thing
and
and
also
how
do
you
do
this?
Where
you
know
you
don't
kill
the
project
on
just
validation,
risks
right.
So
there's
this
this
balance
between
them.
If
it's
small
distributor
projects
you
want
to
do
some
statistical
sampling,
if
it's
one
large
one,
you
can
just
go
out
and
measure.
So
that's
really
easy,
and
then
the
registries
also
certify
the
validators
right,
because
everything
here
really
depends
on
the
quality
of
these
auditors.
V
So
then
you've
got
a
project
right,
so
the
developers
get
the
project
done.
These
guys
audit
it
between
six
months
and
two
years,
I
think,
are
the
the
typical
audit
cycles.
Once
it
gets
audited,
everything
from
the
last
audit
can
be
sold.
So
here
this
produces
offsets,
goes
into
the
registries
and
buyers
can
change
ownership
right
because
it's
it
is
held
as
an
asset
or
they
can
when
they
use
it,
they
can
retire
the
offset
so
that
nobody
else
uses
them
and
because
there's
a
small
number
of
registries.
V
So
I
know
here
we're
all
about
decentralizations,
but
in
this
case
there's
four
major
ones,
and
so
they
coordinate
with
each
other
to
avoid
double
selling
compliance
markets
or
california.
Cabinetry
pools
from
the
four
major
volunteer
registries,
for
example.
So
because
they're
such
a
small
number,
it's
possible
to
do
the
coordination
in
standard
offline
ways
to
make
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen.
V
Okay,
so
that's
kind
of
what
it
looks
like,
and
so,
if
there's
gaming
in
the
market,
we
either
messed
up
on
the
methodology
or
we
messed
up
on
the
audit
and
then
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
other
crazy
things
which
feel
free
to
ask
me
about
in
the
q
a
all
right.
So
one
last
thing
you
need
to
know
about
the
infrastructure.
Is
everything
in
the
carbon
markets
works
on
100
year,
global
warming
potential?
Why
100
years
a
bunch
of
places
that
the
longest
contract
that
you
can
make
right
and
so
for
forestry?
V
If
you
need
to
not
cut
them
down
for
100
years?
Well,
that's
a
contract
right
and
then
the
way
this
works
with
non-co2
gases.
Is
you
basically
look
at
everything
under
the
curve
for
whatever
gases
and
then
do
the
multiplication
right?
So
in
this
case
it's
this
graph
is
normalized
to
one
ton
of
nitrous
oxide,
but
essentially
everything
here
is
equivalent
and
so
that's
kind
of
what
the
multipliers
look
like
right,
there's
also
hfcs.
That
would
be
way
off
the
graph,
so
they're,
not
here
all
right
cool,
so
is
anybody.
V
Somebody
was
supposed
to
show
me
time,
left
jamie,
okay,
cool,
okay.
So
one
quick
example
right
so
let's
say
a
force
was
protected
right,
very,
very
common.
So
then,
like
was
it
in
danger?
Did
you
address
the
root
cause,
so
somebody
mentioned
about
like
counting
the
trees
from
satellites,
which
is
great
right,
that's
a
great
first
step,
but
was
that
force
going
to
get
cut
down
at
the
first
place
right?
What's
the
counterfactual?
That's.
V
That's
really
really
really
really
hard
right.
What
was
the
root
course
and
was
it
addressed
right
and
then,
if
it
gets
cut
down
in
the
future,
are
you
in
a
country
that
has
a
legal
framework
where
you
can
say
hey?
I
want
my
money
back
because
you
cut
it
down
right
or
not,
you
know,
is
it
a
divorce
forest
or
are
you
did
you
plant
a
bunch
of
eucalyptus
outside
of
its
native
environment,
and
now
it
drained
down
your
water
aquifers
and
the
local
farmers
are
like
kind
of
pissed
off
right.
V
V
These
are
just
all
of
the
tools
that
all
of
you
can
build
to
help
that
that
particular
methodology
be
better
right
and
right
now,
like
a
tree
is
worth
you
know
like
the
timber
or
the
farmland
that
it
could
be
so
putting
up
like
an
explicit
price
on
forest.
Is
a
really
really
good
idea,
but
it's
it's
tricky
for
all
of
these
reasons
and
there's
a
program
called
red
plus
that,
like
to
some
extent,
helped
address
this
by
saying.
Look.
V
If
this
thing
is
at
the
level
of
a
country
rather
than
an
individual
landowner,
then
you've
got
somebody.
You
can
sue,
get
the
money
back
from
right,
there's
legal
legal
framework,
it's
a
large
enough
area
that
that
leakage
issue
I
mentioned
is
just
not
a
problem
right.
So
there's
lots
of
innovative
solution.
Ncx
tried
to
do
is
doing
a
really
cool
thing
for
like
timber,
for
example.
V
Right,
so
there's
lots
and
lots
and
lots
of
initiatives
that
are
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
get
that
to
work
and
by
the
way,
just
saying:
oh
well,
we're
going
to
plant
new
trees
instead
of
like,
instead
of
protecting
an
existing
forest
that
doesn't
help
you
that
much
either,
because
if
you
displaced
farmers
well,
those
farmers
went
somewhere
else
and
maybe
cut
down
a
native
forest.
So
like
it's
not,
there
isn't
like
a
particularly
easy
solution,
but
there's
tons
and
tons
of
tools
that
you
can
build.
So
that's
kind
of
great.
V
So
something
like
this
right,
you
can
imagine
that
the
validation
looks
wildly
different,
but
you
can
also
see
that
the
amount
of
like
people
wouldn't
the
the
cost
of
a
new
air
conditioner
like
nobody,
would
be
buying
new
air
conditioners
and
then
draining
draining
that
fluid
out
of
a
new
air
conditioner
like
until
the
price
got
to
a
certain
point.
So
you
know
exactly
what
are
the
parameters
at
which
you
have
to
worry
about
this
or
not?
V
Okay.
So
what
are
things
we
can
do
so
methodology
improvements?
Methodology
updates
that
are
more
frequent.
Would
be
you
know,
a
really
a
really
good
way
of
keeping
up
to
date
with
us
right
because,
for
example,
maybe
you
don't
want
to
buy
a
new
air
conditioner
where
the
price
is
like?
You
know,
whatever
at
fifteen
dollars
a
ton,
but
at
two
hundred
dollars
a
town?
V
Maybe
you
really
really
do
right,
so
I
think
these
frequent
methodology
updates
to
keep
up
with
other
regulations
essentially
and
like
the
prices
and
and
so
on,
would
be
really
good
that
what
watchdog
organization
some
exist,
but
I
think,
having
much
more
to
do.
Aggregate
aggregate
evaluation
of
these
methodologies
would
be
pretty
important.
V
The
true
verification
cost
for
this
methodology,
for
example
carbon
soil
stuff,
is
outside
of
norway
like
not
particularly
accepted
partially,
because
you
can't
measure
that
really
well
and
so
you've
got
companies
that
pop
up
to
make
that
possible
same
with,
like
small
projects
versus
large
projects.
There's
lots
of
small
projects
that
just
can't
participate
so
there's
some
innovation
on
that
doesn't
have
to
be
perfect
right.
There's
some
gaming
like.
If
we
try
to
make
it
perfect,
it
will
be
pretty
hard
to
get
anything
done
right.
V
V
It
would
be
really
nice
if
that
was
like
explicitly
traced,
and
then
you
could
like
make
real
trade-offs
between
like
oh
well,
it's
got
10
risk
of
invalidation,
but
it's
a
really
new
tech
and,
like
it's
got
a
chance
to
come,
come
down
the
cost
curve
and
like
the
methodology,
is
getting
improved.
So
I'm
willing
to
buy
it
in
order
for
us
to
have
more
data
on
that
methodology
right.
So
those
would
be
things
that
you
could
do,
but
right
now
that
is
you
know
it's
either
validated
or
it's
not
right.
V
So
it's
kind
of
the
the
the
trade-off
is
made
for
you
implicitly.
So
that's
why
there's
like
a
bunch
of
other
markets
on
like
co2
drawdown
directly
which
are
like?
Well,
that's
the
only
that's
the
golden
standard.
That's
the
only
thing
we
trust
so
yeah.
I
think
I
was
kind
of
hoping
to
have
more
time
for
questions,
but
I
guess
50
seconds
so
I'll.
Take
one
question
but
feel
free
to
catch
me
in
like
a
happy
hour.
V
That's
a
really
good
question:
I've
been
looking
for
one
really
good
source,
and
I
can't
say
that
I
have
one,
but
they
should
email
me
for
the
specific
question
and
maybe
for
their
sub
questions.
I'll,
have
a
resource
and
I'd
love
to
also
point
out
the
fact
that
there's
a
lot
of
infrastructure
already
available
in
the
carbon
offset
market
and
a
lot
of
it
is
good.
Some
methodologies
are
fantastically
well
thought
out
right,
there's
like
100
of
them
or
so
so
I'd
say
for
people
that
are
building
stuff.
V
I'd
also
encourage
people
to
see.
What's
already
there
right,
the
fact
that
there's,
a
small
number
of
registries
is
really
useful,
so
anybody
making
their
own
market
should
really
figure
out
how
to
work
with
that
market,
and
otherwise
the
double
counting
will
happen
like
one
encrypted
one,
not
in
crypto
and
the
validations
and
the
methodologies
in
the
way.
That's
done
some
are
fabulous,
and
that
should
just
be.
We
should
just
take
advantage
of
all
the
really
really
really
good
thinking
that
has
already
been
done.
V
O
O
So
when
we
talk
about
crypto
asset
sustainability,
a
key
question
that
we
need
to
ask
is:
how
do
we
measure
that?
And
secondly,
what
are
we
even
measuring,
because
sustainability
by
itself
is
a
really
broad
term,
and
it
can
talk
about
a
lot
of
different
things
when
we
talk
about
crypto
asset
sustainability,
one
of
the
first
things
we
typically
look
at,
and
one
thing
that
we
see
a
lot
of
headlines
about
is
the
energy
consumption
of
the
bitcoin
network.
O
But
I
do
want
to
point
out
that
if
you
look
at
these
two
different
approaches,
if
you
take
the
total
numbers
over
last
year
per
my
own
energy
index,
bitcoin
was
consuming
120
134
01
hours
of
electrical
energy
and
per
cambridge.
That
number
was
140
or
what
hours
of
electrical
energy,
so
I
think,
ultimately,
the
difference
between
the
two
methods.
Isn't
that
interesting,
I
think
the
key
thing
is
is
if
we're
looking
at
the
energy
consumption
of
the
bitcoin
network.
Nowadays
we
got
a
pretty
good
idea
about
those
numbers
and
we
can
use
those.
O
There
are
more
assets
like
bitcoin
out
there,
the
biggest
one,
the
second
biggest
one,
that's
using
proof
of
work.
Mining
like
bitcoin
is
ethereum
at
the
moment.
Still
they
haven't
completed
their
switch
to
proof
of
stake.
Yet
and
after
that
you
have
crypto
assets
like
dogecoin
litecoin,
they
significantly
consume
less
energy
but
at
the
same
time
it
also
scales
along
with
their
market
capitalization,
because,
ultimately,
what
we
see
in
a
lot
of
these
assets
is
that
their
energy
use
is
just
related
to
how
much
the
miners
are
earning.
O
This
is
a
bit
of
an
exclusive
image,
so
I
did
the
calculation
based
on
my
own
energy
index
approach
and
the
cambridge
approach
for
the
top
10
largest
crypto
assets
that
are
making
use
of
crypt
proof
of
work.
Mining
note
that
the
site
is
a
logarithmic
scale,
so
otherwise
the
smallest
one
wouldn't
even
be
visible,
but
with
this
image
I
wanted
to
show
that,
if
you're
applying
this
approach,
the
ultimate
result
is
that
you
can
conclude
it
doesn't
really
matter
which
proof
of
work
asset.
O
But
then
what
we
got
an
energy
consumption
estimate
we
can
do
it
pretty
easily,
but
in
order
to
give
that
some
meaning
we
need
to
know
where
is
that
energy
being
sourced
from
what
is
ultimately
the
carbon
emissions
related
to
the
energy?
That's
being
used?
That's
a
tough
question,
because
mining
is
somewhere,
you
can
do
anywhere
in
the
world
and
we
don't
know
which
miners
are
located.
Where
now
the
good
news
is.
O
Cambridge
provides
us
with
a
lot
of
data
about
where
miners
may
be
located
and
they
seem
to
be
doing
a
quite
a
good
job
providing
those
locations.
So
we
can
use
that
to
evaluate
okay.
If
this
is
where
miners
are
located,
what
does
that
mean
for
the
power
that
they're
using?
And
if
we
look
at
that?
We
see
that
historically,
there's
been
a
lot
of
fluctuation
in
the
power
sources
of
the
network.
O
A
key
reason
for
that
is
that,
up
until
last
year,
a
lot
of
these
miners
were
located
in
china
and
within
china
they
were
moving
around.
They
were
moving
from
the
north
of
china
in
the
wintertime,
the
dry
season
to
the
south,
during
the
summertime
and
during
the
rainy
season,
so
they
could
take
advantage
of
cheap
hydropower
and
then
migrate
back
to
the
north
and
use
coal
during
the
winter
months,
and
it's
nice
to
see
that
and
that
migrational
pattern
just
shows
up.
O
When
you
look
at
the
data
over
time,
we
can
see
the
summer
periods
with
a
lot
of
hydropower.
We
can
see
the
winter
months
with
a
lot
of
coal
based
power,
but
then
last
year-
and
I
addressed
this
earlier
today-
china
said
we
had
enough.
We
had
they
found
that
these
miners
were
responsible
for
the
revival
of
some
idle
coal
mines,
and
they
just
didn't
want
this
crypto
mining
industry
anymore,
and
they
they
wanted
to
comply
with
their
climate
targets
and
they
just
kicked
out
this
industry.
O
The
primary
energy
choices
is
natural
gas.
So
what
we
see
is
that
the
average
electricity
mix
is
also
changing.
The
majority
of
the
network
was
already
powered
by
fossil
fuels
and
that
majority
increased
mainly
due
to
hydropower
being
traded
in
for
natural
gas,
and
another
issue
is
that,
even
though
we
see
the
share
of
coal
going
down,
you
would
think.
O
Okay,
that's
great,
but
unfortunately
the
kazakhstan
coal
is
probably
one
of
the
worst
sources
of
coal
in
the
entire
world,
because
in
kazakhstan
they
primarily
rely
on
hardcore,
which
is
the
worst
type
of
core
you
can
be
using
and
they
have
a
really
inefficient
way
of
processing
it.
So,
ultimately,
the
carbon
emissions
of
that
can
be
50
percent
higher
than
what
would
be
normal
in
the
us
or
in
china
altogether.
O
This
was
a
couple
of
months
ago,
by
the
way,
so
in
the
meanwhile,
the
energy
use
of
the
network
has
been
going
up,
but
this
data
is
based
on
august
last
year
and
back
then
this
is
the
quantified
footprint.
What
does
that
mean?
Well
65
megatons
of
carbon
dioxide,
it's
more
than
what
a
country
like
greece
is
responsible
for
every
year.
It's
also
more
than
what
we're
saving
from
deploying
electric
vehicles
around
the
world.
O
So
we're
talking
a
pretty
substantial
number
here,
it's
around
0.2
percent
of
our
global
carbon
emissions
and,
of
course
you
can
say,
okay.
Well,
there
are
bigger
tins,
but
it's
definitely
not
a
insignificant
amount
and
the
interesting
thing
about
this
map
is:
it
also
shows
where
those
emissions
are
being
sourced
from
so
we
see,
like
I
just
said,
kazakhstan
and
the
us
are
really
driving
this
number
and
also
within
the
us.
O
One
of
the
reasons
why
bitcoin
mining
is
so
popular
in
these
states.
I
think
it's
good
to
point
out
that
kentucky
last
year
introduced
tax
breaks
to
lure
these
miners
to
their
grid,
and
they
literally
said
you
know
we
have
an
obsolete
call
industry
and
we
kind
of
like
to
have
a
buyer
for
that
and
georgia
is
actually
moving
in
a
similar
direction.
They
are
also
recently
talking
about
introducing
tax
breaks
for
minus
and
texas
has
been
very
welcoming
to
these
bitcoin
miners
as
well.
O
Well,
like
I
said
at
the
beginning,
when
we
talk
about
sustainability,
we
also
need
to
talk
about
those
kind
of
things,
so
we
can't
just
talk
about
the
energy
use
and
carbon
emissions.
We
also
need
to
talk
about
things
like
hey.
The
system
is
using
highly
specialized
equipment
if
you're
mining
bitcoin.
You
can't
just
do
that
with
any
laptop.
O
You
need
a
very
professional
mining
device
and
you're
going
to
need
a
lot
of
chips
to
create
that
machine
in
the
first
place,
so
we're
already
dealing
with
the
global
chip
shortage,
so
we're
going
to
be
using
some
capacity
that
we
could
also
use
to
do
other
things.
I
can't
quantify
the
impact
of
it
just
want
to
point
out
that
we're
in
a
global
chip
shortage.
O
So
if
we're
putting
chips
into
highly
specialized
machines,
that
can't
do
anything
else,
but
mining
we
lose
capacity
for
other
things,
and
the
other
thing
is
that
these
machines
tend
to
become
obsolete
pretty
quickly.
The
only
thing
they
can
do
is
mining
and
they
are
in
use
for
as
long
as
they
are
profitable
at
that
task.
So,
while
they're
making
money,
that's
great
they're
running,
but
typically
in
a
period
of
one
and
a
half
years,
they
get
to
their
break-even
point.
O
And
then
the
question
is
okay.
What
are
you
going
to
do
with
your
device?
Are
you
going
to
store?
It
hope
that
the
bitcoin
price
go
up
or
the
only
alternative
is
throwing
it
away,
because
you
can't
repurpose
the
device
and
you're
using
highly
specialized
chips,
so
also
the
e-waste
output
of
this
network
can
ultimately
be
as
high
as
well.
My
home
country,
the
netherlands,
at
least
in
terms
of
small
it
equipment,
which
is
an
additional
issue
on
top
of
the
energy
use,
and
it
just
comes
on
top
of
it.
O
The
energy
use
is
not
just
emissions.
It
also
means
that
in
a
lot
of
cases,
these
miners
can
overload
a
local
grid,
and
we
have
seen
that
in
so
many
cases.
By
now
that
all
these
miners
are
looking
for
cheap,
cheap
energy,
cheap
electricity,
they
all
want
to
get
the
same
cheap
sources
because
they
all
have
the
same
biggest
expense,
but
it's
driving
them
to
the
same
locations
and
it's
overloading
those
grids.
O
So
that's
why
we
see
on
the
right
side,
numerous
examples
of
grids
that
have
been
facing
in
the
worst
case,
power
outages
as
a
result
of
all
these
bitcoin
miners
coming
to
that
grid,
and
it's
a
big
issue,
because
ultimately,
if
people
are
left
in
the
dark,
you
know
you're
not
left
in
the
dark
when
everything's
fine,
how
you're
left
in
the
dark.
When
there
is
a
peak
in
the
mount
which
happens
if
either
it's
40
to
50
degrees
outside
or
minus
20.
O
O
Now
the
good
news
is,
I've
been
talking
a
lot
about
bitcoin
and
its
proof
of
work
algorithm,
but
there
are
other
solutions
to
running
a
crypto
asset
nowadays,
so
bitcoin
isn't
entirely
representative
for
what's
really
going
on
in
the
space.
In
fact,
I
would
expect
that
most
project
nowadays,
and
especially
the
new
ones
that
are
being
launched.
O
They
don't
use
proof
of
work
to
look
to
bootstrap
anymore.
They
will
typically
run
on
proof
of
stake,
or
something
else,
and
the
nice
thing
about
proof
of
stake
compared
to
proof
of
work,
is
that,
whereas
in
proof
of
work,
you
have
this
really
massive
lottery
going
on
with
all
these
devices,
just
constantly
running,
trying
to
guess
a
winning
number
and
hoping
to
guess
one
right,
so
they
can
get
to
create
the
next
block
for
the
blockchain
and
get
a
reward
for
that
in
proof
of
stake.
You
don't
need
that.
The
only
thing
is
you.
O
O
What
you
need
is
coins
and
a
device
with
an
internet
connection.
You
don't
need
to
have
your
machines
running
24,
7
and
the
amount
of
machinery
you
have
running
will
not
change
your
odds
of
winning,
so
the
nice
thing
about
that
is
that
it
takes
away
the
hardware-based
competition
and
it
can
tremendously
reduce
the
amount
of
energy
we
require
to
run
this
type
of
systems.
O
I
wrote
at
the
top
here
that
if
ethereum
succeeds
in
changing
its
algorithm
from
proof
of
work
to
proof
of
stake,
which
is
what
they're
working
on
they
could
save
up
to
99.99
of
their
energy
consumption,
which
is
a
pretty
massive
amount,
how
it's
just
110
000
of
what
they're
currently
requiring,
but
it's
a
very
difficult
thing
to
estimate.
Still,
ultimately,
we
don't
know
how
ethereum
will
really
look
like
once
it
switches
to
proof
of
stake,
how
how
many
nodes
will
be
active
in
the
network?
What
will
be
the
hardware
requirements?
O
How
will
that
develop
over
time,
because,
as
the
network
grows,
the
hardware
requirements
might
also
grow
and
the
energy
consumption
might
grow
unless
ethereum
also
manages
to
implement
charting
it's
a
very
fun
discussion
you
can
have
on
that,
but
there's
just
a
lot
of
unknowns
to
such
a
prediction
and,
moreover,
we
still
see
a
lot
of
differences
even
within
the
crypto
assets
that
are
based
on
proof
of
stake.
So
at
the
bottom
here
I
got
a
report
from
the
cryptocarbon
ratings
institute
that
was
published
several
weeks
ago
and
they
looked
into
okay.
O
O
And
what
you
see
is
that
if
you
look
at
this
metric,
the
electricity
used
per
transaction,
you
can
see
that
some
systems
are
a
lot
more
efficient
than
others
yeah.
It
varies
from
51
hours
per
transaction
to
less
than
one
watt
hour
per
transaction.
Now,
just
to
give
this
a
little
bit
of
a
meaning,
if
we
would
look
at
the
energy
use
of
a
payment
provider
like
visa,
the
energy
consumption
per
transaction
would
be
around
one
and
a
half
watt
hour.
O
So
some
of
these
are
doing
really
well.
But
if
you
look
at
cardano
they're
doing
almost
30
times
that,
so
you
could
be
wondering
hey
if
we're
switching
from
our
current
system
to
cardano.
In
this
case,
we
would
be
increasing
our
total
energy
use
by
30
times,
which
would
still
be
pretty
bad
if
you
think
about
it,
because
ultimately,
it's
a
significant
factor.
It's
just
that
with
proof
of
work
being
around
it,
try
it
tends
to
take
away
the
focus
from
that,
because
it
adds
such
an
a
large
amount.
O
On
top
of
that
that
we
forget
that
proof
of
stake
by
itself
isn't
always
perfect
either,
and
I
think
this
was
one
of
the
points
that
was
raised
during
an
earlier
talk.
If
we
move
to
proof
of
stake,
we're
not
necessarily
there.
This
is
the
last
bit
and
it's
difficult
to
solve,
because
ultimately,
this
is
blockchain.
O
Blockchain
relies
by
design
on
the
replication
of
data
replication
of
processes
if
we're
doing
things
in
a
single
server.
If
we're
moving
that
stuff
to
a
blockchain,
what
happens
is
we're
going
to
need
multiple
servers
and
I
don't
know
how
many
there
are
ultimately
going
to
be,
but
it's
going
to
be
more
than
if
we
just
take
that
single
server
and
there
can
be
a
benefit
from
not
having
to
rely
on
that
single
server,
because
that's
also
blockchain.
O
It
takes
away
the
centralized
single
point
of
failure,
but
at
the
same
time
adding
that
trust
through
distributing
data
comes
at
the
price,
which
is
typically
a
reduction
in
efficiency.
So
we
always
have
to
think
about.
Does
our
use
case
really
warn
that
we
put
stuff
on
a
blockchain
or
should
we
be?
You
know?
Are
we
fine
with
our
current
system?
Do
we
trust
the
people
that
we
have,
because
trust
actually
tends
to
be
more
efficient
than
whatever
we
can
do
on
a
blockchain?
O
O
I
have
one
one
minute
left
like.
I
would
assume
that
falcoin
is
probably
somewhere
between
this
type
of
proof-of-stake
networks
and,
ultimately
proof
of
work
networks,
because
there
is
an
incentive
to
you
know,
employ
solid-state
drives,
but
the
energy
consumption
of
that
is
going
to
be
less
so.
The
ratio
hardware
to
energy
is
going
to
be
very
different
from
what
we
see
in
bitcoin,
probably
low,
on
energy
and
relatively
high
on
the
hardware.
O
O
O
What
we
typically
do
is
we
take
the
total
energy
consumption
of
the
system,
and
then
we
divided
by
the
number
of
transactions
that's
being
executed
in
total,
so
yeah
everything
added
up
together
for
bitcoin.
These
numbers
are
a
lot
higher
head
and
we're
not
talking
about
what
hours
but
we're
talking
about
kilowatt
hours.
Oh
a
single
bitcoin
transaction.
O
Well,
if
you
look
at
my
data
today,
it
will
say
it's
equivalent
to
2200
kilowatt
hours
of
electrical
energy
consumption
and
per
bitcoin
transaction.
Also,
a
carbon
footprint
of
more
than
1000
kilograms
might
be
hard
to
wrap
your
head
around
that,
but
that's
more
than
a
per
passenger
carbon
footprint
of
a
flight
from
austin
to
amsterdam.
O
This
is
just
based
on
averages,
so
indeed
we
take
the
location
and
we
just
apply
the
average
emission
factor
of
a
grid.
You
could
actually
argue
that
if
you're
going
to
look
into
this
one
thing
you
should
be
doing,
is
you
look?
You
should
look
in
the
marginal
impact
because,
ultimately,
when
you
increase
the
demand
on
a
grid,
what's
going
to
happen,
is
some
type
of
fossil
fuel
source
is
going
to
come
online
to
power
that
and
the
marginal
resources?
O
In
most
cases,
especially
in
the
us,
is
coal,
so
any
increase
in
demand
is
typically
going
to
be
sourced
from
coal.
Unfortunately,
we
can't
really
specify
that
properly.
So
that's
why
we
had
to
go
with
averages,
but
even
on
averages.
Bitcoin
got
less
green
over
the
last
year.
So
if
we
would
look
at
the
marginal
impact,
the
numbers
would
probably
be
even
worse.
B
O
B
M
X
O
It
depends
I
mean
in
germany
the
the
marginal
resource
is
still
cold,
so
it
really
depends
on
where
you're
located
in
europe,
I
think
in
in
most
cases
the
marginal
resource
is
fossil
fuel.
The
marginal
emission
factor
is
going
to
be
higher
than
the
average.
There
are
exceptions,
of
course
you
would
have
to
check.
That's
that's
that's
difficult.
R
R
X
X
Crypto
miner,
in
brittany,
kaiser
from
griffin
mining,
so
just
to
kick
us
off.
I
figured
I'd
hand
it
over
to
you
all
to
provide.
You
know
just
an
intro
of
who
you
are
your
work,
and
you
know
if
you
could
just
start
to
explain
how
you're,
addressing
or
accounting
for
the
environmental
impact
of
your
operations
as
storage
providers.
U
Both
of
the
data
centers
that
we
use
use,
100,
renewable
energy,
the
one
in
las
vegas
is
a
company
called
switch
that
does
100
solar
and
the
one
in
montreal
uses,
uses
hydro,
and
when
we
consider
how
to
view
our
environmental
impact,
we
looked
at
a
number
of
different
things
in
the
market
in
terms
of
trying
to
figure
out,
should
we
go
out
and
get
a
certification
should
we?
You
know
if
we
were
doing
a
certification
which
certification
we
use
and
the
more
that
we
looked
at
it
it
just.
U
In
terms
of
saying
what
you
know:
here's
the
emissions
we
did
or
here's
the
energy
energy
usage,
that's
tied
to
those
emissions
and
how
we're
reporting
it.
So
what
we're
really
focusing
again
is
is
how
to
make
that
a
more
automated
trustless
process
using
filecoin
as
well
as
some
other
technologies
when
as
well.
When
we
looked
the
industry,
we
saw
that
most
people
were
reporting.
U
You
know
quarterly
biannually
annually,
so
it's
kind
of
harder
to
make
active
decisions
on
how
to
decarbonize
your
your
company
when
you're
reporting
so
infrequently,
so
we're
actually
also
working
to
try
and
reduce
that
significantly
to
to
get
to
a
point
where
we
can
do
it.
You
know
weekly
and
and
then
up
to
a
point
where
it's
actually
real-time
data,
specifically
with
regards
to
energy
usage.
U
E
Fantastic
awesome
welcome,
I'm
happy
to
be
here.
My
name
is
heather
hofland,
I'm
the
co-founder
of
decent
as
a
data
center
slightly
above
amsterdam
in
the
netherlands,
we've
been
working
with
alan
from
falcon
green
for
the
last
half
a
year
to
make
our
data
center
as
renewable
as
we
can,
and
we
just
finished
installation
last
week
of
about
250
solar
panels.
You
already
saw
on
the
on
the
screen
an
hour
ago.
E
We
are
offsetting
about
40
percent
of
our
yearly
usage
and
we
are
trying
to
offset
even
more
and
the
rest
that
we
are
purchase
purchasing
is
fully
wind
and
renewable
so
that
that's
a
that's
real
awesome.
We
are
in
discussion
with
our
with
with
the
roof
owner
to
build
even
more
solar,
so
we
can
go
to
fully
100
renewable.
S
Hi
there,
my
name
is
jonathan:
I'm
the
md
of
hold
on
innovations,
we're
an
investment
firm
in
sydney
we're
at
the
start
of
our
energy
journey.
We
only
just
bought
solar
farm
last
week
and,
as
alex
said,
we've
been
looking
at
the
energy
market
and
how
do
we
become
100
verifiably
run
on
green
energy,
and
once
you
start
talking
to
lots
of
consultants
and
experts,
you
realize
it's
really
hard
and
there's
lots
of
murkiness
of
the
whole
industry.
That's
why
we
bought
our
own
solar
farm.
S
X
That's
that's
fantastic
and
it's
obviously
apparent
that
you
all
have
tremendous
amount
of
experience
and
knowledge
on
how
crypto
and
blockchain
can
be
a
real
player
in
the
renewable
energy
space
and
it
can
help
drive
real
objectible
action
towards
climate
change.
Right.
Obviously,
as
alex
mentioned
earlier,
there's
been
a
lot
of
attention
put
on
these
mining
operators
in
the
context
of
file
going
on
storage
providers
of
about
the
energy
consumption
profiles.
But
it's
not
all
bad.
S
S
If
you
look
at
warranties
from
a
zeus
or
hp
you're,
not
some
some
pits
bits
of
hardware,
you
can't
submerge
and
if
you
look
at
the
pue
so
we're
actually
in
the
most
efficient
data
center
in
australia,
pu
is
like
1.25,
some
sometimes
lower.
If
you
know
pues
of
dc's,
some
could
be
two
or
two
point:
six
th
the
efficiency
to
actually
call
the
the
actual
dc.
So
it's
really
interesting.
S
When
you
start
working
with
hewlett
hewlett-packard,
you
realize
yeah
they
actually
have
to
change
their
warranties
features
submerged,
so
you
can
actually
get
better
computation
power,
so
yeah.
I
think
I
went
on
a
bit
of
a
tangent
there,
but
ultimately
it's
our
responsibility
and
you
you
need
to
look
at
it
from
the
whole.
The
whole
stack
right
from
solo
farm
to
the
ssd
and
the
hard
drives
running
in
your
dc
just
be
super
focused
on
everything.
Yeah.
X
Sure
I
I
really
appreciate
that,
and
that
brings
me
to
another
question
I
had
in
mind,
which
is
you
know,
the
scope
of
the
coverage
when
you're
thinking
about
the
environmental
impact
of
your
your
operations
right.
You
are
obviously
front
runners
in
this
space.
You
know
putting
solar
panels
on
your
on
your
operations
on
the
roof,
your
operations
and
things
like
that,
but
from
a
server
rack
or
from
a
mining
rig
perspective.
X
Are
you
looking
into
the
embodied
emissions
associated
with
that
those
hardware
components,
because
that
will
give
you
significant
coverage
from
a
carbon
accounting
perspective
and
it's
as
you
were
just
explaining
jonathan,
it's
very,
very
difficult
to
do
so.
If
you
could
explain
some
of
that
in
terms
of
what
you
are.
E
E
X
U
Yeah,
absolutely
so
what
we're
using
in
our
data
centers
again
we're
using
colocation,
so
we
don't
actually
own
our
own
data
centers.
But
having
mentioned
the
kind
of
renewal
energy
factor
of
those
we're
putting
in
essentially
our
smart
pdu,
so
basically
just
like
a
smart
power
bar
that
controls
and
shows
us
exactly
how
much
energy
is
being
used
by
each
one
of
those
ports
on
that
energy
bar
so
that
we
can
track
specifically
how
much
each
component,
you
know
what
you
guys
were
talking
about
before.
U
It's
really
important
to
understand
how
these
components
all
play
into
your
energy
usage,
because
that
really
is
at
least
from
a
scope,
one
perspective.
So
a
product
perspective,
not
you
know
how
much
gas
it
took
to
move
one
hard
drive
or
what
the
boat
emissions
were.
But
you
know
our
actual
scope,
one
like
what
this
product
is
doing.
U
But
we
would
like
to
put
all
of
that
data
directly
onto
filecoin
and
seal
it,
because
it's
creating
this.
You
know
chain
of
custody
and
historical
immutable
element
to
the
data
I
mean
for
better
for
worse,
people
can
always
look
at
and
say
this
is
how
good
or
bad
this
group
was
doing,
and
they
could
take
us
to
task
and
say
that
you
know
you
made
it
you've
made
these
commitments.
X
That's
fantastic:
I
can
touch
on
really
two
crucial
points.
I
want
to
circle
around
on
that,
first,
one
being
that
ending
audit
trail
of
immutable
and
verifiable
data.
That
is
absolutely
crucial,
not
only
in
the
context
of
storage
providers
and
or
mining
operations,
to
showcase
how
they
are
moving
towards
a
decarbonized
future
or
net
zero
goal,
but
also
in
the
broader
spectrum
of
corporate
sustainability
goals
and
objectives.
X
We
are
building
some
of
these
components.
You
are
proving
them
right
now.
Oh
welcome
another
panelist
here
I
I'll
come
back
to
you
in
just
a
moment
for
a
lovely
introduction
and
get
you
in
the
combo,
but
just
to
close
on
this
point,
you
know
building
these
solutions,
these
monitoring,
these
web
3
native
monitoring
and
tracking
tools
that
create
end
and
audit
trails
to
prove
sustainability
claims.
X
That
is
something
that
is
far
above
and
beyond
what
we
currently
have
in
the
traditional
web
2
space,
and
it's
so
great
to
see
you
guys
already
starting
to
build
some
of
those
and
implement
them
into
your
operations.
So
now,
ever
so
quickly,
introduction
to
brittany,
kaiser
here
of
griffin
mining.
If
you
just
want
to
provide
the
audience
a
quick
overview
of
what
you
do
at
griffin
and
how
you
are
thinking
about
the
environmental
impact
of
your
operations,
yeah.
H
Absolutely
so
hi
everyone,
I'm
brittany,
kaiser.
I
am
chair
of
the
board
at
griffin,
digital
mining.
We
started
our
bitcoin
miner
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
with
the
specific
focus
to
be
the
first,
not
just
carbon
neutral,
but
carbon
negative
miner,
so
to
really
concentrate
on
our
esg
strategy,
in
terms
of
not
just
only
using
renewable
and
nuclear
energy
and
not
choosing
fossil
fuels
or
even
a
fossil
fuel
mix.
H
Now,
what
we
have
also
been
doing
is
working
with
energy
web
and
a
bunch
of
other
folks,
specifically
to
look
at
how
we
can
become
completely
transparent,
where
we
can
track
and
trace
where
all
of
our
asics
are
actually
plugged
in
where
how
we
can
prove
that
we're
actually
using
renewable
and
nuclear
energy
as
opposed
to
fossil
fuels
and
how
we
can
prove
that
publicly.
So
under
we're
undergoing,
you
know,
carbon
emissions
audits,
we're
going
to
be
doing
public,
esg
audits,
we're
about
to
list
on
nasdaq.
X
That's
that's
wonderful
to
hear
in
a
number
of
things
that
you
just
said,
piggybacked
off
of
what
alex
recently
said
when
he
introduced
the
term
scope
of
emissions
and
for
those
that
you
don't
know,
there
are
generally
three
broad
scopes
of
emissions,
scope,
one
and
scope,
two
being
those
direct
emissions
that
are
generated
within
the
operational
boundaries
of
of
your
organization
and
then
the
scope,
three
emissions,
those
supply
chain,
emissions
that
are
generated
from
your
upstream
or
downstream
supply
chain
partners.
Unfortunately,
those
supply
those
scope.
X
3
emissions
are
generally
the
ones
that
create
the
lion's
share
of
the
pie
of
your
emissions
profile
and
they
are
the
ones
that
are
generally
not
accounted
for.
So
could
any
of
you.
I
know
that
you've
done
a
lot
of
work
in
this
space,
but
anybody
else
as
well
talk
about
how
you're
thinking
about
specifically
those
those
hard
to
account
for
scope.
Three
emissions.
H
Yeah,
I'm
happy
to
to
jump
in
there
just
because
we're
in
the
midst
of
our
our
first
carbon
emissions
audit,
so
that
has
been
really
interesting
for
us
really
digging
into
the
nuts
and
bolts
of
how
our
business
model
works.
Obviously,
there
there's
other
bitcoin
miners
that,
for
instance,
are
completely
vertically
integrated
where
they
own
the
facilities
where
their
asics
are
plugged
into.
Not
everyone
does
so.
H
We
use
a
lot
of
co-hosts
like
core
scientific
and
coinman,
and-
and
these
are
businesses
that
specifically
host
asic
mining
machines,
and
so
they
make
the
direct
business
decision
of
how
they
are
building
out
those
facilities.
What
materials
they're
sourcing,
where
they're
sourcing
it
from
and
so
we're
looking
at
in
terms
of
scope
three.
Obviously
these
are
not
our
direct
decisions,
but
do
we
have
the
ability
to
influence
those
decisions?
H
So
can
we
actually
work
with
our
partners
where
it's
not
a
direct
business
purchase
of
ours
but
say
hey,
here's,
how
you're
sourcing
some
of
your
insulation,
for
example,
you
could
actually
be
sourcing,
something
that
is
either
more
efficient
or
something
that
has
come
from
a
greener
source,
etc
and
so
forth.
Can
we
get
our
asic
miners
to
be
delivered
on
cleaner
ships,
for
example
when
they're
coming
over
from
asia,
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
are
not
in
our
direct
business
control?
H
So
they
easily
go
to
scope
3,
but
really
we
might
have
the
ability
to
influence
and
therefore
be
able
to
agree
in
our
supply
chain.
So
that's
really
what
we're
looking
at
things
that
are
not
just
in
our
decision-making
path.
But
if
we
go
to
scope
3
like
how
can
we
not
just
say
that
that's
something
that
we
don't
have
any
control
over
like?
Let's
see
if
there
are
ways
that
we
can
actually
influence
that.
E
For
us,
I
don't
think
it's
feasible.
The
orders
we
we
place
are
not
that
high,
that
we
can
make
a
decision
on
their
fronts,
but
the
thing
that
we
are
trying
to
do
and
as
a
data
center,
it's
of
course
impossible
to
go
off-grid
right.
You
need
continuity
on
all
machines,
of
course.
Otherwise
you
will
get
slashed.
The
only
thing
we
can
do
in
the
netherlands.
E
We
have
wind,
but
you
cannot
just
randomly
place
a
windmill
somewhere
in
the
corner,
but
what
we
do
have
is
solar,
but
at
night
of
course
we
don't
and
the
battery
capabilities
are
not
yet
decent
enough
to
to
to
use
that
too.
But
the
only
thing
we
can
do
is
create
the
same
amount
of
energy.
We
we
use
yearly
with
solar
and
prove
it
on
chain,
but
adding
the
the
machines
manufacturing
the
shipment.
For
us,
it's
a
bit
too
much
to
do.
S
Yeah
being
an
investment
firm,
it
has
its
pros
and
cons,
and
I
think
the
pro
here
is
our
next
shipment
from
hewlett-packard
will
come
with
some
conditions.
You
know
we
want
the
the
hardware
as
cheap
as
possible,
but
we
also
want
to
know
the
complete
supply
chain
of
it
and
it
pains
them
when
I
say
that
and
I
can
see
them
sweat,
but
you
know
I'm
going
to
stick
to
my
guns
and
see
where
we
get.
Maybe
I
might
not
get
all
the
way,
but
I
might
get
halfway
and
the
next
shipment.
S
X
Yeah,
wonderful-
and
it
is
those
incremental
gains
that
we
can
only
ask
for
right
in
trying
to
influence
some
of
those
suppliers
to
move
us
towards
a
more
decarbonized
future.
So
that's
great
to
hear
that
you're
pushing
on
those
levers
from
your
ankle.
I
want
to
pry
into
some
of
this
a
little
bit
more
and
talk
specifically
about
the
challenges
that
you
all
face
with
trying
to
procure
renewable
energy,
maybe
in
the
the
dutch
grid
system,
or
here
in
texas
and
in
the
u.s
or
wherever
it
may
be.
U
Yeah,
so
for
us
I
mean
it's
much
easier
again
going
back
to
this
kind
of
smart
power
bar
to
just
say,
what's
our
specific
emissions,
but
I
guess
which
our
energy
usage
and
touch
the
missions,
but
we
do
actually
pull
on
the
occasional
third
party
source
when
it
comes
to
additional
resources.
Generally,
those
resources
come
in
the
form
of
you
know:
additional
compute
power
or
sort
of
memory
power.
U
H
Like
some
of
the
gentlemen
back
there
that
I've
been
working
with
closely
at
energy
web
and
now
zero
labs,
who
are
building
out
a
lot
of
really
amazing
technical
solutions
to
this,
where
we
can
start
to
think
about
how
we
actually
track
and
trace
these
grid
mixes.
Because,
right
now
we
have
some
public
sources
of
information.
As
you
said
with
you
know
how
a
local
energy
grid
actually
works.
H
What
are
the
reports
that
come
from
the
local
energy
authority
and
then
obviously
renewable
energy
credits
and
and
other
government
incentives
that
might
have
some
sort
of
certificates
of
tracking
and
traceability
of,
of
what
that
power
station
is
actually
providing,
but
getting
down
to
as
granular
of
a
level
as
we
would
like
to
is
still
actually
quite
an
iterative
process?
And
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
people
in
this
room
have
been
working
together
to
try
to
figure
out
the
best
solutions
so
that
we
can
get
over
that
regulatory
struggle.
H
That
I
feel
like
our
entire
industry
is
dealing
with,
where
we're
painted
with
the
brush
of
not
being
not
being
thoughtful
in
terms
of
doing
our
part
to
achieve
climate
goals.
And
I
really
think
that
most
people
that
are
in
this
industry
are
in
this
industry
because
they
believe
that
these
technologies
will
have
a
positive
impact
on
the
world
for
many
different
reasons.
And
so
we
don't
ever
want
to
be
that
obstacle
or
that
hindrance
to
climate
goals.
Absolutely
not
so
really
doing
our
best
at
the
moment
to
be
working
together.
S
So
in
australia,
we've
got
a
unique
situation.
We
have
lots
of
land
and
lots
of
sun.
So
really
really.
My
problem
is.
I
really
want
to
connect
every
every
piece
of
hardware
that
we
have
at
the
dc
it
almost
the
bios
settings
to
some
kind
of
did.
So
we
have
a
decentralized
identifier.
That
goes
straight,
so
I
don't
have
to
do
anything
software,
the
bios
and
the
software.
Does
it
that's
really
our
dream
state,
because
then
I
don't
have
to
worry
about
anything.
Everything
is
transparent
and
verifiable.
S
E
Yeah,
well,
we
don't
have
that
much
land
and
we
don't
have
that
much
sun.
I'd
rather
put
my
panels
in
australia,
but
no.
We
have
an
extreme
necessity,
especially
in
the
netherlands,
to
make
the
usage
visible
there's.
Actually,
if
I,
if
I
quote
this
correctly,
there
actually
is
a
stop
on
on
new
data
centers,
because
the
the
net
is
full.
They
cannot
place
any
more
data
centers
because
we
don't
have
any
more
power
to
connect
them.
It's
an
extremely
dense
country.
X
That's
that's
fantastic
and
I
can't
believe
that
you're
running
out
of
of
land
and
power
for
data
centers
in
the
netherlands,
that's
insane.
So
we've
talked
about
some
of
the
challenges
in
terms
of
data
collection
and
also
there's
been
a
few
mentions
of
the
regulatory
uncertainty
kind
of
playing
into
this
in
some
of
your
jurisdictions.
Can
you
speak
a
little
bit
to
that?
Is
it
right
now
because
of
the
uncertainty
really
limiting
some
innovation
or
some
opportunities,
or
is
it
kind
of
just?
H
Definitely,
I
would
say
regulatory
uncertainty
makes
it
more
difficult
to
build.
I
spent
most
of
my
time
in
this
industry
working
on
regulation.
I
was
lucky
enough
to
meet
caitlin
long
at
the
end
of
2017
and
I
moved
to
wyoming
to
work
with
her
there.
For
the
past
four
years,
I
sit
on
a
number
of
the
congressional
subcommittees
on
blockchain
fintech
and
digital
innovation.
H
I've
helped
write
in
past
now,
22
laws
there,
which
we've
used
in
over
20
different
countries
and
16
other
states
as
a
kind
of
a
digital
asset
legislative
framework
that
we
believe
is
actually
conducive
to
the
industry.
Doing
well,
and
you
know
now,
we
finally
have
a
an
executive
order
in
the
united
states
to
finally
take
this
seriously
and
get
some
federal
legislation,
and
I
think,
as
soon
as
we
started
passing
laws
in
this
industry,
which
wasn't
until
2018,
we
saw
all
of
a
sudden.
F
U
Canada
has
been
pretty
ominously
quiet
about
the
whole
thing
which
doesn't
make
for
a
fantastic
regulatory
environment.
I
mean
the
position
it
seems
like
the
government
tends
to
take.
Is
it's
not
a
problem?
And
if
you
don't
make
it
a
problem,
then
it's
probably
okay
and
that's
how
we
got
you
know.
Canada
obviously
has
bitcoin
etf.
We've
got
public
ethereum
vehicles.
I
know
there
are
some
in
the
states.
U
Obviously
there
you
know,
there's
a
gray
scale
and
things
like
that,
but
we
have
like
an
actual
kind
of
spot
etf
and
we've
had
it
for
a
long
time.
So
when
we,
you
know
talk
to
the
and
we're
a
canadian
company,
we
have
operations
in
the
u.s,
but
I
mean
we're
governed
with
the
laws
of
of
canada.
We
do
talk
to
the
the
regulators,
we
submit,
you
know
yearly
audit
and
we
just
basically
have
to
suggest
and
say
hey.
This
is
the
closest
that
this
looks
like
right.
U
E
It's
not
my
my
field,
so
I
have
no
clue,
but
it
was
a
mess
chatting
with
the
government
about
what
are
you?
What
are
you
actually
doing,
and
one
of
the
most
important
things
we
needed
to
make
sure
of
is
the
creation
of
falcoid
isn't
text
like
when
you're
selling
a
product
for
us?
It
was
the
most
important
thing,
because
our
main
income
is
creating
new
powerpoints
at
the
moment.
E
Eventually,
it
will
be
deals,
of
course,
but
for
now
it's
just
making
new
blocks
and
we
needed
to
make
sure
that
there
was
not
an
added
tax
on
top.
So
eventually
we
have
been
chatting
with
the
government
and
we
have
been
emailing
them
and
sending
letters
and
it
was
accepted
to
make
a
few
separate
businesses
for
the
hosting
for
the
mining
for
the
investments.
E
So
we've
done
that
and
now
we
are,
it's
agreed
upon
that
we
do
not
pay
tax
on
top,
but
for
the
rest,
I
don't
know
the
the
the
regulatory
things
in
the
netherlands
about
this
mining
structure.
We
do
not
have
many
miners
because
you
might
not
know,
but
do
you
know
the
electricity
prices
in
the
netherlands?
What
we
pay
per
per
kilowatt
take
a
guess.
Q
H
E
Yeah
yeah,
like
at
the
bear
of
kilowatt
price
before
when
corona
started
in
2020,
we
paid
three
cents
on
average
that
year,
because
of
course,
all
the
the
companies
were
shut
down.
Now
we
paid
25
excluding
tax,
excluding
import
per
kilowatt,
so
the
solar
thing
is
really
important
for
us
financially
too,
but
it's
it's
a
mess.
E
H
Also
to
just
add
to
that
recently,
the
european
union
was,
or
european
parliament
was
going
to
have
a
particular
meeting
on
the
the
the
power
usage
of
crypto
miners,
so
that
was
not
bitcoin
specific.
That
was
talking
about
all
crypto
mining.
All
proof
of
work
really
is
what
they
were
looking
to
discuss
and
that
discussion
has
been
delayed.
So
it's
supposed
to
happen
two
weeks
ago,
I
think,
and
because
of
ukraine
everything
was
pushed
and
so
that
discussion
hasn't
happened
yet,
but
it'll
be
the
first
main
meeting.
H
We're
actually
not
directly
getting
the
credits
and
it's
a
very
difficult
process
to
even
prove
that
we're
using
renewable
energy
because
we
don't
get
the
credits
from
the
government.
But
I've
seen
state
by
state
in
the
u.s.
That
states
are
considering
making
specific
renewable
energy
incentives
for
mining
companies
and
then
being
able
to
trace
that
through
their
energy
usage
and
credit,
the
company
in
and
of
itself.
So
we're
we're
getting
there.
But
we're
not
there.
Yet.
X
That's
that's
great
to
hear,
and
I
mean
it's
interesting-
that
you
talk
about
the
the
flow
of
those
credits
through
all
the
intermediaries
and
it
seems
to
be
a
perfect
area
in
which
web
3,
native
monitoring,
reporting
and
tracking
systems
need
to
be
built
to
facilitate
a
more
streamlined
approach
to
these
credits
being
formal.
You
know
the
formation
of
them
and
then,
ultimately,
the
delivery
of
those
credits
to
the
appropriate
people.
H
Yeah,
I
mean
there's
a
lot
of
thinking
right
now
on
a
technical
level,
exactly
how
we
prove
that
out
and
then
how
not
only
how
are
those
credits
tracked
and
traced,
but
then
is
there
a
way
of
tracking
tracing
the
green
coins
that
come
out
of
that
type
of
mining?
And
so
will
there
be
a
premium
on
those
green
coins?
Will
there
be
completely
different
markets
for
investing
in
coins
that
were
created
with
renewable
and
nuclear
energy
without
much
of
a
carbon
footprint
like?
H
Perhaps
I
I
definitely
think
you
know
we're
starting
to
see
great
green
mining
etfs
coming
out,
and
so
I
think,
there's
going
to
be
more
of
that,
where
a
lot
of
funds
that
have
an
esg
mandate
are
only
going
to
be
able
to
invest
in
coins
that
have
tracking
and
traceability
from
renewable
energy
production.
So
I
do
think
that
will
go
in
one
direction,
whether
or
not
there's
a
premium.
Whether
or
not
we
want
to
have
a
discussion
on
that
threatening
the
fungibility
of
certain
coins
like.
S
One
thing
I
want
to
quickly
focus
on
before
we
finish
is
we
have
to
remember
when
the
file
coin
virtual
machine
comes
out
and
you
have
the
file
coin
network,
it's
going
to
be
fastly
more
efficient
than
web
2
right,
because
filecoin
is
not
a
competitor
to
amazon.
It's
a
competitor
to
multiple
industries
right,
so
once
that
falcon
virtual
machine
comes
out
right,
compliance
almost
goes
away
right
because
it
gets
written
into
the
contract
at
the
top
level.
So
you
don't
need
lots
of
people
checking
right.
So
we
we
just
have
to
remember.
S
Filecoin
only
uses
you
know
energy
consumption
on
my
p.
L
is
one
percent
of
the
bottom
line
right,
bitcoins
50,
so
it's
already
energy
efficient
compared
to
other
consensus
mechanisms,
but
long
term.
It's
going
to
be
great
for
the
world
great
for
energy.
We're
currently
writing
an
esg
report,
so
we're
kind
of
getting
into
this
now,
but
yeah
we're
just
excited
about
it.
E
Well,
one
of
the
reasons
we
started
out
on
falcon
in
mid
2020
was
because
we
were
owning
a
solar
farm
me
and
my
solar,
I'm
sorry
an
ethereum
farm,
but
we
were
using
about
100k
euros
a
month
on
power,
even
with
the
three
to
four
cents.
We
were
paying
that
year,
so
luckily
I
sold
it.
Otherwise
it
will
be
bankrupt
now,
but
the
problem
now
is,
of
course,
with
the
instability
with
the
war
in
ukraine.
The
prices
will
go
more
and
more
and
more.
E
E
They
went
to
locations
where
the
power
is
cheaper.
You
have
some
data
center.
In
belgium,
they
were
still
okay,
but
everything
gets
more
expensive
there,
and
I
don't
see
this
being
resolved
any
day
soon
and
there's
not
not
much.
We
can
do
with
the
government,
we
can
email
them,
ask
them
for
rebate
or
anything
else,
but
that
won't
happen.
E
So
the
only
thing
we
can
do
is
take
control
on
our
own
hands
and
we
will
try
to
get
every
kilowatt
we
produce
more
than
our
own
user
to
do
during
the
daytime.
We
will
get
back
for
free
at
night.
So
if
you
just
increase
the
solar
capacity,
we
will
have
zero
energy
use,
that's
our
main
goal,
but
for
now
it's
just
it's
it's
it's
really
difficult,
and
I
see
the
prices
going
up.
The
gas
price
going
up.
The
gasoline
prices
going
up.
Electricity
prices
are
going
up.
S
High
prices
is
not
necessarily
a
bad
thing
right:
it
kickstarts
an
innovation
cycle,
so
you
have
to
be
more
wise
on
how
much
gpu
power
is
left
there
sitting
not
working
right.
So
I
just
see
it's
just
a
natural
cycle
of
crypto
markets
of
you
know
of
how
they
work.
So
I
think
it's
a
really
good
thing.
H
Yeah
and
I
think
it
will
also
spur
more
companies
to
become
completely
vertically
integrated,
not
only
looking
at
off-grid
energy
sources,
but
also
being
able
to
take
direct
advantage
of
government
credits,
which
is
the
only
way
that
it
works
right
now
and
so
a
lot
more
people
will
be
investing
in
building
large-scale
renewable
facilities
so
that
they
can
get
those
credits
directly
and
then
that
helps
manage
the
energy
price.
Even
in
the
united
states.
In
many
states
that
actually
means
your
energy
prices
are
negative
and
you're
being
paid
to
use
and
create
that
energy.
H
You
see
a
lot
of
you
know:
facebook,
google,
amazon,
large-scale
data,
centers
that
are
just
being
plugged
into
a
fossil
fuel
mix
grid
and
that's
what
it
is
and
they're
happy
to
plug
in
and
just
do
that.
But
the
development
of
renewable
energy,
because
of
the
way
that
especially
bitcoin
mining
is
incentivized,
makes
more
sense.
So
we're
spending
the
money
on
renewable
energy
facilities
and
nuclear
facilities,
because
the
grid
and
fossil
fuels
don't
make
any
sense.
X
F
R
R
F
R
W
Thank
you,
nice.
I
need
to
roll
hands
all
right.
So
thanks
for
having
us
today
and
we
are
going
to
talk
about
how
to
fight
climate
change
with
non-visual
nfts,
I
had
to
add
that,
because
a
lot
of
people
think
we
are
doing
visual
entities
like
art,
things
and
decentralized
technology
and
we've
been
working
on
this
for
a
couple
of
years,
more
or
less
one
and
a
half
year
we
started
it
was
a
project
that
started
at
energy.
W
Web
and
wendell
will
tell
you
more
about
energy
web
later
and
our
co-founder
doug
that
spoke
this
morning.
He
also
helped
put
out
the
cryptoclimate
accord
and
together
we
worked
on
this
project
for
filecoin,
while
at
energyweb,
and
we
decided
also
to
spin
it
out
as
an
official
startup
to
accelerate
on
some
some
fronts.
But
it's
worth
to
mention
that
energy
web
facilitated
this
project
at
the
beginning
in
a
different
way.
W
At
the
beginning,
it
was
for
large
market
operators,
and
today
we
are
more
focused
on
crypto.
But
let's
jump
on
to
that,
if
you're
here
you
know
what
the
problem
is,
so
I'm
just
going
to
paint
bro
broad
strokes,
like
eighty
percent
of
the
global
energy,
still
produces
the
73
percent
of
the
greenhouse
gases
that
we
put
out
and,
of
course,
there's
a
nuances
to
this.
But
it's
a
useful
simplification
and
our
mission
is
to
bring
those
numbers
to
zero
right.
W
That's
why
we're
called
zero
labs
and
what
do
we
do
and
how
do
we
do
it?
This
is
the
only
slide
I
would
kind
of
read.
We
use
tokenized
renewable
energy
certificates
as
nfts
non-visual
entities,
making
them
a
web
3
building
block
that
powers,
the
programmable
decarbonization
revolution,
enabling
businesses
and
individuals
to
easily
buy
renewable
energies
and
transparently
prove
it
it's
a
mouthful.
So
what
I
will
be
doing
is
unpack
a
lot
of
these
little
things.
So
we
took
a
nice
renewable
energy
certificates,
a
lot
of
people
in
this
space.
W
You
guys
probably
all
know
what
a
renewable
energy
certificate,
but
for
the
benefit
of
our
larger
audience
and
the
posterity
we're
going
to
explain
because
people
think
yeah
they
are
kind
of
carbon
offs.
I
know
carbon
offsets,
but
there's
a
lot
of
a
misconception
about
them.
So
to
reiterate,
also
what
doug
just
said
this
morning:
carbon
sorry,
renewable
energy
certificate
for
us
are
the
key
to
changing
electricity,
related,
behaviors,
okay,
green
behaviors,
and
to
explain
how
they
work
and
what
they
are.
W
So
one,
renewable
energy
certificate
represents
that
one
megawatt
hour
of
green
energy
produced
by
a
renewable
power
plant
has
been
put
into
a
specific
grid.
Okay-
and
this
is
already
one
of
its
limitations-
the
one
megawatt
hour
doesn't
allow
for
the
granularity
that
somebody
else
was
speaking
earlier
on,
like
the
hourly
level
or
the
households
etc,
because
one
megawatt
hour,
just
to
put
it
in
context,
is
kind
of
one
month
of
a
us
household,
three
months
of
an
european
just
to
balance
out.
Okay,
just
to
understand
a
renewable
energy
certificate.
Is
this
a
pdf?
W
Okay,
it's
a
pdf
that
proves
that
a
certain
amount
of
energy
was
produced
and
it
has
different
names
and
there's
different
standards
across
the
world.
The
real
name
would
be
energy
attribute
certificate,
but
as
a
company
we
want
to
promote
the
use
of
the
more
readable
and
understandable
name
renewable
energy
certificate,
which
is
the
standard
the
us
uses
also,
but
as
a
general
name,
we
would
like
to
call
them
because
they
are
self-explanatory,
what
they
are,
and
so
it's
a
complicated
market.
W
These
pdfs
are
created
also
by
these
registries
across
the
world,
there's
different
registries
and
they
are
the
only
way
to
prove
that
your
energy
is
greed.
This
is
a
normal
misconception.
Every
time
I
try
to
explain
it
to
people,
they
say
yes,
but
I
don't
know
my
country
is
30
green.
That
means
that
I'm
30
green,
no
statistics
and
math.
It
doesn't
work,
you
know.
W
So
only
these
three
people
or
these
three
households
can
say
their
energy
is
really
green
because
they
have
the
proof
and
if
everybody
asks
approve,
there
will
be
a
moment
in
which
there
will
be
no
proofs
to
give
out.
So
some
people
will
not
be
able
to
even
say,
like
30,
you
can
distribute
that,
but
it
will
never
get
to
to
exactly
everybody
being
able
to
say
30
green
and
I
like
to
make
the
difference
with
carbon
offsets
we've
been
talking
about
carbon
offsets
and
people
think
and
know
about
carbon
offsets.
W
W
In
this
case,
like
a
large
company
and
the
activist
that
produces
the
benefit
for
the
world,
while
in
renewable
energies
certificates
they
are
actually
the
same
person.
The
consumer
is
the
activist
because
they
are
proving
that
their
electricity
is
green
and
that
creates
incentive
to
more
renewable
energy
and
that's
what
the
ultimate
goal
is.
There's
a
sub
problem
with
the
wreck
industry,
it's
gated.
It
has
been
built
up
for
just
the
large
companies,
not
their
fault.
It's
like
the
industry
is
built
around
large
numbers
and
large
processes.
W
It's
slow,
like
procurement
processes,
takes
six
months
invoices.
It's
super
slow
right:
it's
disconnected
all
living
silo
databases
which
makes
difficult
to
validate
verify
transparently,
so
we
are
doing
the
total
opposite
thing
and
we
are
making
the
easy
fast,
digital,
liquid,
permissionless
and
programmable
all
the
cool
things
about
the
crypto
space.
W
We
are
adding
on
top
some
proofs
that
the
community
can
visualize
the
proofs
that
are
going
to
be
built
on
on
the
blockchain
and
we
are
enabling
permissionless
innovation
on
top
of
this
web
3
building
block
we're
going
to
see
this
so
other
parts
of
that
mouthful
sentence.
We
tokenize
rex
and
turn
them
into
non-visual
nfts.
This
is
the
interesting
part
like
a
certificate
is
an
nft
and
it's
probably
one
of
the
most
useful
examples
of
what
an
ft
is.
W
So
it's
a
green
nft
that
represents
that
that
one
megawatt
hour
has
been
put
into
the
grid
it's
recorded
on
the
blockchain
as
an
nft.
You
can
transfer
it
off.
Of
course,
it
is
a
of
a
standard
that
you
can
also
fractionalize,
so
you
can
go
down
to
the
what
hour
level
and
start
accessing
or
giving
access
to
smaller
buyers.
W
You
can
do
a
bunch
of
things
like
composability
programmability,
and
it
has
this
special
property
being
a
a
certificate
that
it
can
be
logged
that
only
a
final
buyer
will
be
able
to
say
that
sustainability
claim
you
know.
So
this
is
a
difference
from
normal
visual
nfds.
If
you
want,
that
means
that
that
nfd
will
not
be
transferable
anymore,
we
enable
others
to
transparently
prove
it.
This
is
what
I
was
saying.
W
In
this
case,
at
a
rough,
a
rough
1.1
per
megawatt
hours,
a
lot
of
people
don't
know
the
price.
The
prices
vary
across
the
world,
they
spent
a
total
of
185,
and
this
was
for
q1
2021.
It's
important
that
there
is
that
trackability
across
time
again,
all
these
data
are
inserted
into
this
fancy
page.
That
is
one
of
the
pages
that
we
have
in
our
site.
One
of
the
proof-
this
is
very
technical,
so
we
are
also
building
some
instrument
and
tools
to
enable
the
radical
transparency,
transparency
and
auditability.
W
I
started
my
path
into
crypto
fighting
against
the
fact
that
when
you
try
to
look
into
the
transactions,
it's
really
not
that
transparent.
If
it
takes
you
three
months
to
understand
stuff,
so
we
want
anybody
to
be
able
to
do
it
to
verify
the
information
by
themselves
without
having
to
go
down
the
analyst
data
scientist
path.
Okay,
so
this
is
a
path
from
the
contract
to
the
certificate,
to
the
proof
etc,
and
we
are
exploring
new
ways.
We
are
unveiling
today
some
scrappy
things
like
in
the
classical
lean
startup.
W
We
are
unveiling
some
scrappy
alpha
version
of
a
new
proof
page,
because
that
is
very
technical.
We
want
it
to
be
more
human
readable
so
that
everybody
could
show
it
and
just
to
explain
some
some
parts,
it's
ugly
still,
but
we
need
to
convert
the
dry
numbers
into
actual
impact
so
that
people
understand
what
what
they
are
actually
doing
in
numbers
or
in
things
that
they
might
be
more
familiar
in
with
than
just
megawatt
hours.
We
are
going
to
have
some
behavioral
actions
like.
W
If
you
have
a
streak,
you
will
get
rewards
or
you
are
incentivized
to
keep
going
on
this
path
of
sustainability.
You
will
get
more
information
about
the
generator,
because
some
some
places
you
are
giving
more
impact
to
a
specific
project.
As
you
see
it's
all
wireframing
classical
startup,
but
just
to
validate
with
maybe
some
of
you,
these
ideas
and
and
of
course,
some
joined
some
call
to
actions.
So
less
is
more,
but
zero
is
better.
W
This
is
a
kind
of
our
claim
if
you
want-
and
we
are
building
these
proofs
on
the
blockchain,
some
numbers
about
what
we've
achieved
so
far.
Also,
thanks
to
falcoin,
we've
tokenized
84
000
racks
for
15
miners
now,
but
looking
at
the
pioneering
effort
of
stephen
afterwards
saying
this
early
morning
of
blockchains
that
want
to
decarbonize
the
history
filecoin
is
wants
to
do
that
as
well.
W
It's
a
shorter
history,
but
still
a
very
good
history,
and
so
we
are
going
to
work
to
tokenize,
almost
one
tera,
whatever
stuff
on
on
the
network.
Other
parts
of
the
story
easily
buy
renewable
energies,
and
this
is
where
the
falcoin
miners
story
also
comes
in
today.
If
you
want
to
buy
this
rack
again,
it's
very
difficult.
You
need
to
go
through
loops
and
complicated
markets.
We
are
making
it
super
easy.
W
It
will
be
digital
and
unchained
and
there's
advantages,
for
example,
for
the
crypt
for
the
storage
providers
through
building
the
reputation
system
or
one
of
the
variables
of
the
reputation
system
will
be
how
green,
how
much,
how
many
wrecks
they
bought
in
proportion
to
their
consumption.
They
might
win
more
bid.
So
the
end
game
is,
you
are
green.
You
get
more
money,
you!
You
win
more
storage
bids.
Okay,
that's
one
of
the
variables,
of
course,
of
the
reputation
system.
W
It
has
other
variables
and
we
are
working
also
to
with
other
actors
to
try
in
this
effort
of
proving
other
blockchains
green.
It's
a
challenge,
we're
using
different
methodologies.
It's
a
work
in
progress,
but
if
you
want
to
decarbonize
and
prove
it,
we
are
working
on
that
so
come
and
talk
to
us
and
web
3
building
blog,
that's
another
part,
and
it's
probably
my
favorite.
So
the
idea
here
is
what
happens
once
you
enable
developers
to
permissionlessly
create
with
this
thing.
W
You
know
this
tool,
you
unleash
that
potential
innovation
right,
so
we
are
creating
kind
of
this
protocol
to
enable
anybody
to
tokenize
these
racks
and
to
bring
them
on
chain
and
to
use
these
nfts
for
anything
in
one
of
the
first
cases.
The
other
day
at
the
falcon
green
meetup,
somebody
showed
a
connection
between
using
the
api
to
view
on
a
map
which
miners
are
how
green
and
stuff
like
that,
and
it
was
awesome
just
to
see
that
the
innovation
in
the
falcon
community
and
the
part
is
the
programmable
decarbonization.
W
No,
it
should
be
streamlined,
I'm
using
I'm
doing
this
behavior,
which
could
be
storage,
providing
or
mining
bitcoin,
or
anything
else
that
it's
electrified,
okay
and
you
would
automatically
get
it
calculated
and
proven
and
greenified.
So
this
is
the
direction
we're
working
on
and
please
join
us.
We
want
you
to
fight
climate
change
with
us.
Thank
you.
W
L
W
Okay,
just
for
the
audience,
with
the
rex
being
transferable,
how
do
you
avoid
a
super
speculative
market
popping
up?
Yes,
that's
actually
a
good
question
right
now.
We
are
basically
claiming
for
the
end
user
directly
in
the
case
of
filecoin
miner.
So
this
phase
here
we
are
not
yet
enabling
others
to
transfer
them,
but
it's.
If
it's
permissionless
in
one
day,
you
will
probably
have
those
players
in
place.
W
W
You
still
want
them
to
be
cheap,
but,
right
now,
for
example,
they
are
too
cheap
to
constitute
a
real
tool
for
helping
the
return
of
investment
on
small
buyers.
One
thing
that
I
forgot
to
say
is
that
we
are
working
to
enable
small
sellers,
though
that
has
panels
on
their
roofs
and
small
buyers,
those
that
buy
less
than
one
megawatt
hour
that
consume
for
electric
devices
to
to
be
able
to
buy
this
amount,
and
so
these
people
need
fractions
and
and
and
and
digital
speed.
X
W
Our
assumption,
like
startup
we
need
to
validate,
of
course,
is
that
it
will
be
the
majority
like
right
now.
The
industry
has
been
set
up
for
large
buyers,
okay,
but
the
real
potential
is
for
the
individuals
out
there
that
want
to
decarbonize
small
fractions
of
their
operations.
I
want
my
household
my
activities
to
be
green,
okay,
for
each
single
activity,
maybe
or
for
the
whole
of
my
impact,
and
I
want
a
simple
automatic
way.
W
X
AA
Great,
thank
you,
everyone
and
before
I
start
thanks
again
to
our
great
hosts
protocol
labs
for
convening
us
here
today.
This
has
been
very
heartening
to
hear
from
everyone.
We
all
are
have
our
hearts
in
the
same
place.
Clearly-
and
I
love
to
see
how
our
community
is
so
strong
that
you
know,
there's
multiple
people
who've
worked
together
at
energy
web
and
are
now
on
other
teams
and
in
different
across
the
space
and
we're
all
doing
such
great
work.
AA
My
name
is
wendell
cathcart.
I
lead
the
delivery
of
some
of
our
projects
at
energy
web
that
focus
on
decarbonizing,
the
crypto
space
and
I'm
helping
sorry.
Today,
I'm
excited
to
talk
about
green
proofs.
Our
solution
stack
for
advancing
some
of
the
components
of
the
disclosure
space
today
and
esg,
and
also
the
proving
of
these
individual
credentials
as
they
exist.
AA
So
just
a
few
sentences
on
who
we
are
and
kind
of
how
we've
gotten
here
so
energy
web
is
a
global
nonprofit
company
that
builds
open
source
software
for
some
of
the
largest
energy
companies
in
the
world
to
help
decarbonize
and
a
key
component
of
the
energy
web
stack
itself.
Is
the
public
energy
web
blockchain
so
that
clearly
puts
us
at
this
nexus
between
the
crypto
and
the
sustainability
space
that
we
leaned
into
very
firmly
about
this
time
last
year
with
the
launch
of
the
cca.
AA
So
this
is
something
that
doug
who
spoke
earlier
was
crucial
to
launching
cca
and
there
are
multiple
members
of
the
cca
and
present
today.
So
it's
a
really
a
great
thing
to
see
everyone
get
to
meet
some
people
in
person.
Cca
is
a
paris
style
accord
from
the
industry
itself
to
help
make
crypto
more
sustainable
and
go
carbon
neutral.
AA
So
you
know
this
2030
goal
is
aggressive
and
it's
actually,
frankly
pretty
difficult.
So
this
is
a
you
know.
Crypto
specifically,
is
a
space
where
the
term
and
definition
for
what
it
means
to
be
sustainable
or
carbon
neutral
is
actually
not
as
clear-cut
as
you
think,
and
there
aren't
necessarily
universal
standards
for
what
this
means.
So
I'm
not
trying
to
pick
on
the
cca
signatories
or
the
crypto
space.
Specifically,
this
is
actually
a
more
general
challenge.
AA
AA
This
is
prohibitive
for
many
companies
because
of
this
ambiguity,
there's
high
cost
and
complexity
to
complying
with
sustainability
in
the
crypto
space,
and
as
I
mentioned,
you
know,
this
goes
beyond
crypto,
so
there's
a
good
opportunity
for
leadership
here
and
then
there's
a
fundamental
information,
asymmetry
that
is
present
in
the
crypto
or
the
sustainability
disclosures
that
companies
make.
So
you
know
oftentimes.
These
are
pdfs
on
websites
that
you
know
serve
a
purpose,
they're
important
to
an
extent,
but
then
there's
a
the
public
is
missing
fundamental
verifiability
of
what
it
is.
AA
You
know
at
the
base
here.
What
is
it
that
you
know
the
process
that
was
undergone
by
you
know
oftentimes
consultants
in
collaboration
with
the
company,
to
prove
and
say
these
things,
and
so
you
know.
We
think
that
this
is
a
trust,
don't
verify
process
generally
speaking
these
days,
and
you
know
I
think
you
can
see
where
I'm
going
with
this.
You
know
this
is
web3.
AA
Tech,
web3
mantra
verify
don't
trust,
and
so
that's
really
where
we're
headed
with
the
green
proof's
approach
at
energy
web,
so
green
proofs,
generally
speaking,
is
a
technology
stack
that
enables
industry
players.
You
know
in
crypto
and
in
other
industries
to
be
able
to
prove
the
sourcing
and
sustainability
of
their
energy
procurement
using
just
self-sovereign
digital
identities.
Ssi
and
dids.
Are
the
kind
of
ssi
speak
for
what
I'm
describing
here
to
be
able
to
make
claims
and
prove
in
a
verifiable
by
the
public
way
their
operations?
AA
And
we
see
two
major
approaches
to
like
the
challenges
that
I
just
described,
so
this
is
to
empower
the
industry
themselves
to
define
sustainability
and
to
have
a
governance
scheme
moving
forward.
So
you
know
what
does
sustainability
mean
in
2022
for
a
crypto
sector?
What
does
it
mean
in
five
years?
Should
this
be
a
dynamic
and
self-governing
approach
that
allows
this?
AA
So
these
clearer
definitions
for
what
it
means
to
be
sustainable,
lower
cost
complexity
can
result
in
broader
uptake
in
an
industry
in
progress
in
an
industry,
and
then
this
governance
itself
can
be
actually
defined
at
the
industry
level,
but
actually
can
map
down
to
the
companies
themselves.
So
individual
green
proofs
about
a
company's
procurement
practices
will
actually
map
to
the
industry-wide
standard,
and
then
we
see
crypto
is
a
fantastic
incubator
for
this
type
of
approach.
AA
So
cryptocurrency
miners
have
hashes
have
blocks,
have
things
that
are
inherently
verifiable
and
tie
into
energy
consumption,
as
some
of
the
previous
speakers
have
discussed
today.
There's
also
these
you
know:
they're
forward-thinking,
cutting-edge
technology,
companies,
blockchain
native,
and
they
actually,
you
know,
are
motivated
to
make
changes
here.
But,
as
I
mentioned,
the
green
proof's
approach
is
generic
enough
to
apply
to
other
industries
as
well
and
then
back
to
those
very
verifiable
reports.
AA
AA
Everything
should
be
verifiable
public
key
based
signatures,
clear
governance
that
should
be
consumable
by
the
the
public
and
how
we
get
there
is
with
trust
primitives.
This
is
you
know
the
underlying
decentralized
self-sovereign
identities
that
are
making
claims
about
the
company.
These
could
be
different
business
units.
They
could
be
employees,
they
could
be
devices
on
the
edge.
They
could
be
third-party
auditors
and
sources
of
information.
So
you
know
we're
really
trying
to
meet
the
industry
in
the
companies
where
they
are.
AA
So
this
is
the
latte
example.
How
do
you
start
with
a
credit
card
end
up
with
a
latte
in
your
hand
that
credit
card
is
issued
to
you
by
your
bank?
It's
physical.
It
goes
into
your
wallet
and
you
present
it
to
let's
say
a
barista
at
a
point
of
sale
and
it
doesn't
end
there.
The
barista
verifies
your
credit
card
information
using
a
protocol,
and
then
you
receive
a
good
or
service,
and
so
there's
actually
quite
a
lot
of
trust
that
went
into
this
process
and
it
was
transitive.
AA
So
you
received
a
latte
because
of
your
bank
issued
you
a
credential,
there's
so
much
behind
the
scenes
here
that
you
know
I
I
don't
and
can't
really
get
into
because
of
just
the
immensity
to
it.
There's
a
huge
centralized
network
of
industrial
organizations,
government
entities,
banking,
banking
organizations
and
then
regulations
in
the
court
system
behind
them.
But
this
is
all
the
governance
layer
that
took
part
in
this
trust
triangle
that
enabled
you
to
have
this
very
smooth
user
experience
of
buying
a
latte.
AA
So
I'm
not
going
to
generalize
how
disclosures
work
today
generalization
and
how
there's
a
trust
gap
that
emerged
because
of
the
fundamental
design
here.
So,
just
starting
again
on
the
left,
we're
we
have
a
consulting
company
generally,
that
was
hired
commissioned
to
create
a
report
about
a
company
about
their
sustainability,
the
procurement
of
renewables-
and
you
know
these
are
done
by
lots
of
very
smart
and
talented
people
in
a
space,
and
they
essentially
are
hired
to
be
able
to
say
something
credibly
about
this
company.
AA
So
here's
acme
in
the
center
here
and
what
this
company
has
done
is
the
consultants
issued
them
a
credential.
The
companies
actually
place
this
on
their
website
to
be
consumed.
You
know
at
will
by
the
public.
This
isn't
something
that
they're
having
to
display
it's
just
kind
of
on
display
and
the
public
is
really
left
with
just
that.
Pdf
in
their
hand,
they
can't
go
so
much
beyond
verifying
the
data
that
went
into
it.
AA
The
process,
the
there's
a
lot
of
lack
of
governance
in
this
layer
here,
because
the
reputational
you
know
the
reputation
of
the
consultants
and
the
company
are
really
kind
of
on
display
and
there's
a
fair
amount
of
change
potential
for
impermanence
in
the
actual
underlying
governance
and
processes,
and
even
organizations
involved
here.
So
this
company
might
be
using
a
different
company
oops
a
different
organization
year
to
year
to
produce
this
report.
So
there's
a
real
problem
here.
AA
I
think
that
should
be
clear
and
we
have
you
know,
a
an
approach
that
doesn't
that
tries
to
get
back
to
some
of
the
assurances
of
the
previous
trust
triangle,
but
it
doesn't
have
to
reintroduce
those
intermediaries
these
years
and
centuries
and
legacy
organizations.
That
is,
you
know
the
banking
and
credit
card
network
industries,
so
just
starting
with
the
bottom
layer
here
and
thinking
about
governance,
so
using
a
public
utility
layer
like
the
energy
web
chain.
In
this
example,
where
you
know,
there's
a
sensor:
censorship,
resistance
and
just
public
access
by
anyone.
AA
AA
Who
are
the
issuers
in
this
example?
So
we
have.
You
know,
as
I
mentioned,
those
maybe
business
units,
employees
and
third
party
companies
that
are
involved
in
the
operations
of
this
the
company.
The
subject
of
this
credential,
they
issue
information
about
the
company
to
to
the
company,
but
it's
not
just
like
text
or
emails.
These
these
are
signed.
Messages
that
follow
credentialed,
clearly
defined
credentials,
add
up
to
a
hole.
This
hole
is
greater
than
some
of
its
parts.
AA
These
things
are,
you
can
think
of
as
a
hierarchy
of
claims
that
result
in
the
replacement
for
that
pdf.
What
we're
calling
a
verifiable
presentation?
That's
as
I
speak,
and
what
that
is
to
the
public
is
a
document
that
could
be
again
published
on
a
website.
It
could
be
accompanied
by
a
pretty
pdf
that
you
know
there's
all
sorts
of
ways
we
can
make
this
look
very
easily
digested
by
the
public,
but
there's
fundamentally
just
leaks,
more
trustworthiness
and
verifiability
in
this
type
of
verifiable
presentation.
AA
That's
composed
of
these
smaller
claims,
and
you
know
we're
not
saying
that
there's
aren't
going
to
be
consultants
and
third-party
data
providers
and
these
types
of
specialists
involved.
They
will
be
involved,
and
this
is
actually
going
to
look
different
from
an
industry
to
industry,
even
company
to
company,
but
again
this
similar
model
with
these
credential
definitions,
these
different
roles
and
how
they
add
up
to
a
larger
presentation.
This
can
actually
be
standardized
across
industries
and
agreed
on
by
a
consortia
of
companies
in
these
different
industries.
AA
So
here's
a
way
where
we
can
actually
have
more
self-governance
by
industry
players
in
a
transparent
way.
You
know,
involving
ngos
involving
different
specialists,
to
to
lend
real
credibility
here,
but
without
the
need
for,
let's
say,
public
intervention
in
the
case
of
crypto-
and
you
know
all
the
attention
it's
getting
right
now
or
a
more
burdensome
or
centralized
governance
process.
AA
So
I
won't
get
far
into
exactly
what
a
self-sovereign
identity
means.
I
encourage
everyone
to
to
learn
about
it.
It's
a
really
interesting,
exciting
new
space
that
we
have
implemented
some
of
the
standards
of
the
w3c
standards
at
energy
web
by
our
ssi
team
and
yeah.
Essentially,
we
are
building
everything
with
ssi
at
our
core.
It's
in
our
dna
as
a
company,
it's
in
all
of
our
products.
The
green
proof
solution
that
I've
described
is
an
implementation
of
all
these.
AA
These
technological
primitives
that
I've
kind
of
outlined-
and
here
we
have
yeah
again
the
verifiable
presentations,
which
is
that
kind
of
some
of
the
parts
deployed
for
a
specific
industry
in
this
case
crypto.
So
we
love
to
engage
with
industry
players.
We
would
love
to
work
with
with
any
with
any
one
of
you.
Please
do
reach
out,
read
up
on
us
rip
on
ssi
and
let
us
know
how
we
can
work
together.
X
W
X
M
AA
Green
groups
sure
so
we
actually
have
implemented
the
full
daid
wallet,
but
we
haven't
deployed
it.
Yet
it's
still
kind
of
in
a
beta
phase.
Now
so
from
a
technological
standpoint,
we
are
on
our
on
our
track
to
I
think
in
q2
to
the
open
source
that
have
essentially
all
the
fundamentals
that
we
need
for
this
use
case.
AA
More
broadly,
but
meanwhile
you
know
we
have
multiple,
parallel
business
streams,
looking
at
different
industries,
seeing
how
we
can
meet
businesses,
you
know
where
they
are
with
these
needs,
and
so
you
know
there's
a
whole
lot.
I
mean
I
mentioned
governance.
A
number
of
times
I
mean
that
is
huge.
Like
technology
is
one
thing
it's
it's.
It's
hard.
Governance
is
really
hard.
You
know,
community
building,
getting
everyone
to
work
together
is
tough,
so
yeah.
AA
Portable
sure,
yes
yeah,
so
it's
actually
all
role
based
currently
there's
on-chain
roles
that
are,
you
know
publicly
viewable
by
anyone,
but
then
there's
also
stored
on
ipfs,
but
you
could
clearly
use
protocol
labs.
In
fact,
we've
done
a
lot
of
protocol
ops
file
coin.
We've
done
a
lot
of
thought
on
how
that
would
work,
but
but
ipfs
is
you
know
the
the
off
chain,
more
private
credentials.
F
X
G
G
We
all
know
this,
but
I
would
suggest
that
the
metric
that
people
often
look
to
is
the
one
and
a
half
degree
or
two
degree
temperature
targets
that
the
u.n
is
setting
and
I
think
a
more
useful
metric
would
be
measuring
the
amount
of
atmospheric
carbon
concentration,
and
today
that's
about
421
parts
per
million.
I
was
born,
it
was
360.
G
G
So
in
order
to
get
back
to
300
ppm,
we
have
to
emit
less
decarbonize
and
remove
the
rest,
because
even
if
we
were
able
to
magically
wave
a
wand
and
turn
off
all
sources
of
carbon
emissions
tomorrow,
there
is
still
far
too
much
carbon
in
the
air.
We
have
to
remove
it.
Now.
People
have
approached
this
problem
in
the
past
with
offsets,
but
I
just
want
to
kind
of
distinguish
the
different
types
of
assets
that
are
out
there.
So
there
are
projects
that
reduce
emissions.
G
Is
it
flickering
yeah,
okay,
as
a
result
of
still
going
as
a
result
of
doing
these
projects,
there
is
less
carbon
going
up
in
the
air
than
would
have
happened
otherwise,
and
then
there
are
removals
which
are
projects
that
actively
pull
co2
out
of
the
air
and
sequester
it
in
the
earth.
Somehow,
is
it
still
going.
M
G
G
Fortunately,
there
are
a
lot
of
different
ways
that
we
can
pull
carbon
out
of
the
air
there
are,
there
tend
to
be
nature-based
solutions,
things
like
planting
trees,
growing
kelp,
soil,
carbon
sequestration,
and
then
there
are
more
industrialized
applications
like
direct
air
capture
and
carbon
negative
cement,
and
the
trade-off
is
the
nature-based.
Solutions
are
much
more
scalable
and
much
more
affordable
today,
but
they're
much
more
difficult
to
measure
and
the
industrialized
applications
are
a
lot
easier
to
measure,
but
they
are
not
ready
to
scale
because
they're
still
extremely
expensive.
G
The
other
good
news
is,
there
is
broad
commitment
out
there
from
fortune,
500
companies
and
so
on,
to
move
beyond
reductions
and
avoidances
and
moving
specifically
into
carbon
removals,
and,
if
there's
anything
that
you
take
away
from
this
talk
today,
what
I
really
want
to
land
with
you
is
that
this
is
a
supply
side
problem.
This
is
not
a
demand
side
problem.
There
is
far
more
demand
out
there
there
than
there
is
supply
available.
G
G
G
You
can
think
of
them
like
certification
bodies
and
they
maintain
databases
of
serial
numbers
representing
different
carbon
offsets
and
in
order
to
create
a
carbon
offset
project.
First,
you
have
to
develop
a
protocol
that
can
cost
a
lot
of
money.
You
have
to
get
the
project
validated,
so
you
partner
with
environmental
scientists
who
can
come
in
and
basically
create
a
model
that
tells
you
how
much
carbon
is
part
of
your
project.
G
And
then
at
that
point
the
registry
will
issue
the
carbon
credits
to
the
project
and
most
of
the
time,
they'll
sell
those
to
a
broker
and
then
that
broker
will
go,
try
to
find
a
buyer
and
then
that
might
be
another
broker
and
then
they
might
sell
to
another
broker,
and
so
the
carbon
credits
can
resell
many
times
over
and
then
maybe
sometimes
it's
probably
about
less
than
25
of
the
time
carbon
credits
are
retired,
which
means
you
pull
it
out
of
circulation.
You
say
this
is
no
longer
available
for
resale.
G
When
I
got
into
this
in
2015
and
16,
I
wanted
to
understand
how
big
is
this
market
like
how
much
are
people
paying
for
carbon
offsets,
and
this
is
a
screenshot
from
a
report
by
a
group
called
forest
trends
and
they
put
together
an
annual
state
of
the
voluntary
carbon
markets
report,
and
I
was
looking
at
this
in
2016,
and
my
first
thought
when
I
saw
this
chart,
was
they
broke
this
up
into
primary
and
secondary
sales?
What
the
heck
is
a
secondary
sale
and
it
turns
out
that's
from
carbon
credits.
G
Reselling
and
the
other
thing
you
might
notice
here
is
that
the
secondary
market
is
much
larger
than
the
primary
market,
and
that's
that's
because
of
the
resell.
I
don't
believe
that
carbon
offsets
should
be
traded.
If
we're
going
to
be
serious
about
dealing
with
climate
change,
we
should
be
designing
our
systems
so
that
every
new
dollar
spent
results
in
net
new
carbon.
G
That's
coming
out
of
the
air,
not
pushing
pieces
of
paper
around
and
enriching
middlemen
and
then,
lastly,
carbon
trading
is
full
of
fraud,
so
this
is
a
screenshot
from
a
case
in
the
eu
exchange
trading
system,
but
also,
I
think,
the
more
notable
one
is
the
chicago
climate
exchange
which
about
10
years
ago
collapsed.
It
was
a
an
attempt
to
build
a
market
for
soil
carbon
trading
in
the
u.s.
What
would
happen
is
you
would
have
related
parties
doing
off-book
swaps
with
each
other,
so
you
say:
I'm
I'll
sell
you
credits
at
a
dollar.
G
You
sell
them
back
to
me
at
a
dollar
25
and
we're
going
to
mark
to
market
as
if
they
were
actually
bought
and
sold
at
the
prevailing
market
price
of
like
14,
and
then
you
get
analysts
and
commodities
traders.
Looking
at
that
and
saying,
look
at
all
this
trading
volume
happening.
This
is
a
real
investable
commodity.
It
was,
it
was
a
farce
and
it
collapsed
underneath
itself.
G
So
what
is
the
result
of
this?
How
did
what
like?
How
does
this
whole
system
work?
Well,
you
get
a
system
where
project
developers
are
paying
a
lot
of
money
just
to
certify
their
projects
that
doesn't
include
the
capital
expenses
or
the
operating
expenses
to
actually
do
whatever
it
is
that
they're
doing
and
carbon
removal
specifically,
is
often
more
expensive
than
carbon
avoidance,
and
they
can't
get
past
this
barrier
to
entry,
and
then
credits
are
sold
and
resold
many
times
over.
G
And
then
I
think,
even
worse,
is
the.
The
resale
opportunity
here
means
that
you
can
have
like
oil
and
gas
companies
buying
up
a
bunch
of
cheap
carbon
credits,
making
some
pr
announcement
about
it
and
then,
when
no
one's
looking,
they
they're
holding
them
on
their
balance
sheet
and
then
they
flip
them
later
on
and
then
do
they
really
get
to
take
credit
for
it
like,
of
course
not,
and
it
doesn't
actually
do
anything
for
the
amount
of
carbon
in
the
air
and
there's
no
transparency
on
this.
G
We
don't
actually
know
what
the
carbon
price
is,
because
all
this
happens
behind
closed
doors
facilitated
by
brokers,
so
that
forest
trends
report
they
only
it's
a
self-reported
survey
and
we're
only
getting
data
from
the
biggest
companies
in
the
world,
because
they're
publishing
environmental
reports
for
their
shareholders.
We
don't
have
insight
into
transactions
that
are
happening
at
small
scale
or
between
small
businesses
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
the
worst
part
about
this
is
the
offset
registries,
have
zero
incentive
to
change
any
of
this
one
they're
non-profits.
G
So
they
don't
have
the
financial
incentive
to
scale
up
and
two
in
a
supply
constrained
market
they're
deriving
all
of
their
fees.
From
the
supply
side,
so
they
charge
registration
fees,
listing
fees,
transaction
fees
and
consulting
fees,
so
they're
making
money
off
of
this.
They
have
no
reason
to
change
so
here's
what
we
should
do
differently.
G
First,
carbon
removal
should
be
prioritized
over
carbon
avoidance.
Market
forces
are
already
pushing
us
in
the
direction
of
the
emit
less
part,
it's
already
cheaper
to
build
new
renewable
energy
than
it
is
to
maintain
existing
coal
power
plants.
Second,
carbon
credits
should
never
be
sold
more
than
once.
G
They
should
be
retired
immediately
upon
sale
and
the
sale
should
happen
in
an
open,
transparent
way
where
we
can
see
everything
like
who
did
the
removal
who,
when,
where
it
happened,
who
measured
it
and
how
it
was
verified
and
what
the
price
was
paid
and
at
what
volume
and
then.
Lastly,
we
still
want
a
tradable
commodity
asset
for
price
discovery.
It's
important
that
we
build
a
global
commodities
market
for
carbon,
but
it
should
not
be
the
carbon
credit
itself
that
is
traded.
We
need
to
have
a
secondary
asset
to
represent
that
for
price
discovery.
G
So
that's
what
we
do
at
nori.
We
are
a
marketplace
that
connects
suppliers
of
carbon
removal
with
buyers
who
want
to
be
carbon
negative.
We
partner
with
third
parties
who
do
the
carbon
quantification
to
dramatically
reduce
that
cost,
and
then
third
parties
come
in
and
do
verification
to
ensure
that
the
carbon
removal
actually
happen
and
continues
to
stay
out
of
the
air.
G
The
product
that
we
sell
is
called
a
nori
removal,
ton
or
nrt.
One
nrt
is
one
ton
of
co2,
that's
been
sequestered
for
at
least
10
years.
It's
warranted
to
the
buyer
for
10
years,
and
this
is
interesting
because,
if
you're
like
a
big
enterprise
company
and
you're
buying
carbon
offsets,
you
often
actually
see
this
as
a
liability,
because,
let's
say
you
buy
a
bunch
of
forestry
credits
and
then
that
forest
burns
down
or
gets
harvested.
G
You
are
going
to
get
destroyed
in
the
press.
This
has
happened
many
times,
and
so
what
they
do
is
they
put
an
enormous
amount
of
effort
into
diligence
by
working,
hiring
a
ton
of
consultants
and
finding
these
brokers,
who
can
source
high
quality
projects
for
them,
and
all
this
is
doing,
is
driving
up
transaction
costs
and
again
making
it
more
difficult
for
new
market
entrants
to
come
into
this
space.
So
our
solution
is
to
offer
a
full
10-year
warranty.
If
we
discover
that
carbon
has
been
lost,
we
will
buy
new
nrts
on
your
behalf.
G
Now
we
are
agnostic
to
the
different
ways
of
carbon
removal.
I
want
market
forces
to
figure
out
what
is
the
most
efficient
and
effective
way
to
pull
carbon
out
of
the
air,
but
we
had
to
start
somewhere
and
we
focused
on
regenerative
agriculture
because
of
the
enormous
potential
for
scaling
all
told
around
the
world.
You
could
remove
about
5
billion
tons
every
single
year,
which
is
10
percent
of
our
global
annual
carbon
emissions
and
the
way
this
works
is
farmers
will
do
things
like
reduce
the
amount
of
tilling.
This
is
called
no-till.
G
They
plant
cover
crops,
so
they're
keeping
roots
in
the
ground,
year-round
and
they're,
implementing
more
complex
crop
rotations
and
in
the
soil
itself,
what's
happening
is
they're
doing
these
practices
that
increase
the
amount
of
organic
matter.
That's
growing
in
the
soil
and
the
organic
matter
is
the
carbon
and
when
they
adopt
these
practices
over
time,
not
immediately,
but
over
time
they
will
increase
their
crop
yields
and
they
will
become
more
resistant
to
drought
and
flood.
G
So
it's
to
their
benefit
to
do
this,
but
they
need
bridge
financing
to
help
get
them
over
the
hump
and
that's
the
role
that
paying
for
carbon
storage
plays.
So
this
is
trey
hill.
He
was
the
first
farmer
that
we
worked
with
he's
in
maryland.
He
runs
a
7
000,
acre
soy
corn,
wheat
farm
and
he
sold
about
14
000
tons.
G
Now
I
mentioned
earlier
that
we
need
a
secondary
trading
asset
for
price
discovery
and
that's
the
role
that
our
nori
token
plays.
So
we've
been
around
for
almost
five
years
now
and
we
took
the
approach
of
let's
build.
The
carbon
side
of
the
business
first
prove
the
concept
that
we
have
the
ability
to
measure
and
verify
the
carbon
and
then,
let's
finally
launch
our
token
for
price
discovery
and
the
way
this
works
is
one
nori
will
always
be
able
to
purchase
one
ton.
The
price
of
nori
will
float
relative
to
supply
and
demand.
G
G
G
In
the
background
of
everyday
life,
we've
lately
been
partnering
with
a
lot
of
nft
artists
in
entertainment,
industry,
nft,
marketplaces
about
25
of
our
sales
are
going
through
crypto
and
web3
platforms
and
we're
seeing
more
like
there
are
some
play
to
earn
games
that
are
putting
a
portion
of
their
profits
towards
buying
carbon
removal.
That's
how
we
scale
this
up.
I
don't
think
it's
driven
by
fortune
500
companies.
I
think
this
is
much
more
of
like
a
grassroots,
like
new
economy
type
of
solution.
G
G
An
ethereum
account
or
a
cryptocurrency
we'll
just
make
one
yeah.
Okay,
is
it
it's
actually
not
really
a
big
deal
most
of
the
buyers,
don't
even
care
about
that.
What
they
want
to
see
is
a
dashboard
that
can
display
like
the
certificate
of
what
they
want.
So
on
the
certificate
you
can
go
and
see,
like
literally
the
map
of
the
field
where
the
removal
took
place,
you
can
read
the
verification
report,
learn
about
the
farm,
that's
what's
far
more
useful
for
our
customers,
because
they
need
to
be
able
to
show
that
to
their
own
consumers.
G
Sure
yeah
so
in
carbon,
offsetting,
there's
this
concept
of
additionality
and
there
are
actually
two
different
additionality
tests
that
are
applied
in
the
legacy
system.
So
the
first
is
the
question
of
incremental
carbon
removal,
which
is
relative
to
a
baseline,
is
carbon
being
avoided
or
removed,
and
so
the
way
that
we
do,
that
is
when
we're
collecting
operating
data
from
farmers
we're
looking
at
what
year
did
they
make
the
practice
change
switch
from
heavy
tillage
to
no
tillage
or
they
started
planting
cover
crops,
and
then
that
sets
the
baseline.
G
G
I
think
that's
ridiculous,
because
that
means
that
only
unprofitable
projects
could
ever
qualify
for
carbon
credits
and
we
need
to
scale
this
up.
So
we
we
fundamentally
reject
the
financial
additionality
test.
We
don't
do
that
in
our
market.
We
think
that
if
people
are
performing
the
service
of
removing
carbon
from
the
air,
then
they
should
get
paid
for
it.
G
Mental
okay,
so
kalima
dao,
is
really
exciting
because
it
shows
that
there's
like
enormous
interest
from
people
in
the
crypto
community
to
want
to
use
these
tools
to
help
solve
climate
change.
However,
I
think
what
climate
is
doing
is
causing
that
harm,
because,
ultimately,
what
well
I
mean
we
have.
G
We
have
watched
the
price
action
and
seen
that
it
is
not
working,
it
has
failed,
but
ultimately,
what
they're
doing
is
they're
purchasing
carbon
credits
coming
from
these
registries
that
no
one
ever
wanted
to
buy
in
the
first
place
and
what
it's
doing
is
perpetuating
the
system.
I
think
that
the
the
way
these
registries
are
set
up
is
bad.
It
does
not
work
and
it's
preventing
us
from
scaling
and
klima
is
just
perpetuating
that
problem.
G
M
Z
G
G
But
we
just
we've
talked
to
everyone
in
the
space
and
no
one
has
to
your
question.
No
one
has
good
enough
validated
science
backing
the
claims
of
how
measurement
and
verification
would
happen,
and
we
don't
feel
comfortable
accounting
for
that.
Yet
so
there
needs
to
be
more
development
in
the
industry.
Before
we
can
onboard
new
methodologies.
G
X
T
T
Test
as
test
so
hey
everyone,
we
are
shafi
and
david
from
gainforce
and
super
excited
to
be
back
in
the
states
to
tell
you
about
gainforce,
a
cryptocurrency
to
reverse
deforestation,
so
the
natural
world
is
changing
in
rates
unparalleled
in
human
history.
This
is
a
quote
from
the
intergovernmental
science
policy
platform
on
biodiversity
and
ecosystem
services
of
the
united
nations.
It's
a
it's
a
critical
statement
showing
that
we
have
lost
half
of
the
world's
forest
to
deforestation
since
industrial
times.
T
This
is
a
humanitarian
and
ecological
disaster,
and
we
want
to
show
you
why
in
the
beginning,
deforestation,
we
talk
a
lot
about
air
force.
Station
reforestation,
soil,
carbon,
but
deforestation
is
actually
one
of
the
major
key
drivers
of
the
climate
crisis.
We
don't
there's
no
way
we
can.
We
can
keep
up
with
paris
if
we
cannot
stop
deforestation.
T
It's
eighteen
percent
of
global
anthropologic
emissions
through
land
use
change
and
deforestation,
and
it's
been
so
bad
that
the
amazon
rainforest
last
year
has
become
a
carbon
source
instead
of
a
carbon
sink
due
to
the
deforestation
that
happens
there,
and
I
want
to
provide
you
a
different
perspective
on
deforestation,
because
we
see
a
lot
of
the
side
images.
We
saw
a
lot
of
the
pictures
of
forests
and
and
green
green
stuff,
but
what
we
care
about
a
lot
is
the
people
who
live
in
the
forest.
T
T
So
we
we
said
we
are
very
glad
to
be
in
the
states,
because
a
couple
of
our
team
members
spent
two
months
in
paraguay.
We
brought
you
some
pictures
on
to
show
you
what
deforestation
looks
like
on
the
left
side
is
the
national
park
of
different
source
de
chaco.
The
biggest
national
park
of
paraguay
is
one
of
twenty
thousand
hectares
of
forest.
T
On
the
right
side,
paraguay
has
sold
most
of
its
land,
which
is
not
national
to
private
private
land
owners
that,
because
power
guy
knows
only
one
business
model
currently,
which
is
the
cattle
industry.
The
beef
industry
power
guys
one
of
the
biggest
beef
exporters
in
the
world
where
people
don't
know
about
much
of
the
land
has
been
deforested.
T
Actually
it
has
the
highest
deforestation
rate
in
the
world,
even
after
even
before
the
amazon
rainforest-
and
you
can
see
here-
this
small
road
here
separates
the
national
park
and
the
and
the
cattle
farms,
and
every
day
more
than
a
100
of
these
trucks,
full
of
cattles
are
driving
through
the
streets.
These
are
drone
shots.
We
took
yeah
it's
it's,
it's
kind
of
seeing
that
and
realizing
the
people
and
the
lives
at
stake.
T
So
of
course,
we
know
that,
of
course,
our
governments
know
that
the
north
knows
that
the
united
nations
know
that
so
we
implemented
something
called
the
results-based
payment
system,
which
is
just
a
fancy
word
of
thing.
When
you
protect
foreign,
you
don't
cover
it.
We
pay.
You
right
like
paul
talked
about
this
red
plus,
for
example,
is
a
fund
that
initialized
25
billion
dollars
of
money
that
is
reserved
for
paying
conservation
of
forests.
T
It's
it's
beautiful
because,
like
if
you
get
paid,
of
course,
you
don't
cut
the
forest,
but
it
it's
just
one
problem:
it
doesn't
work
and
the
reason
it
doesn't
work
yeah,
I'm
serious.
It
doesn't
work.
The
reason
it
doesn't
work
has
only
one
like
there's
only
one
reason
for
that,
which
is
missing
trust.
T
So
you
see,
if
you
want
to
get
this
money,
you
need
to
apply
for
it.
You
need
to
self-report
how
much
you
conserve
right
and
then,
of
course,
someone
who
self-reports
could
cheat
on
the
reporting
and
people
who
would
pay
would
be
like
wait.
A
second
I'm
not
very
trusting
your
numbers
here.
So
these
funds,
usually
you
don't
get
nearly
30
of
what
you
apply
and
usually
takes
three
to
five
to
ten
years
until
you
receive
any
of
this
money.
T
T
So
why
is
it
expensive?
Paul
talked
bit
about
this.
This
monitoring
reporting
verification,
because
people
don't
trust
people
reporting
monitoring,
relies
strict
standards
that
are
so
off
like
old
ages.
Basically,
what
you
do
is
for
conserving
forest
and
measuring
the
carbon.
You
go
into
the
forest.
You
measure
every
tree
by
the
diameter
at
breast
height,
so
you
take
a
band.
You
measure
the
energy
from
the
diameter.
You.
T
So,
of
course,
every
person
is
differently
tall,
so
we
have
uncertainty
already
in
that
step,
and
this
whole
process
costs
35
000
us
paul
mentioned
one
hundred
thousand
us
dollars.
You
can
imagine
for
someone
who
owns
a
land
and
gets
a
daily
salary
of
a
monthly
salary
of
one
hundred
dollars.
This
is
this:
is
the
live
seller?
They
cannot
afford
that.
So
access
to
these
funds
are
restricted
due
to
the
fact
that
mrv
monitoring
reporting
verification
is
just
insanely
expensive.
T
T
So
we
got
inspired
by
reading
a
book
about
governing
comments.
We
come
from
switzerland
and
apparently
in
switzerland,
even
though
the
nature
is
shared
among
others,
people
are
able
to
still
preserve
it.
Elena
ostrom,
the
first
woman
nobel
prize
winner
in
economics
in
2009,
has
discovered
that
trust
does
not
have
to
come
from
external
sources.
T
T
We
need
monitoring
that
is
trusted
by
everyone
involved,
and
then
we
need
a
system,
a
governance
system
that
is
cooperative,
that
is
sovereign,
and
that
is
also
legitimate,
and
we
believe
that
these
allow
us
to
combine
two
technologies,
even
though
tangibly
artificial
intelligence
for
monitoring
and
blockchain
technology
for
the
co-operative
governance.
Part
and
we'll
show
you
in
a
second.
Why?
So?
T
There
has
been
an
explosion
in
data
coming
from
the
ai
site
on
monitoring
in
general,
remote
sensing,
we
have
satellite-based
monitoring,
we
have
drone-based
monitoring,
field-based
technology
has
been
advancing,
there's
even
genomic
metagenomic
of
the
soil,
analyzing
biodiversity
and
whatever
lives
inside
that
soil
and
the
same
technology
that
tells
us
that
we
lost
half
of
the
world's
forest
can
be
used
to
estimate
the
dangers
of
deforestation
globally
in
the
next
couple
years
and
the
next
couple
months.
Even
we
have
satellite
data
currently
that
is
almost
on
a
daily
basis.
T
T
And
lastly,
we
have
developed
tools
in
the
last
four
years
where
we
also
leveraged
the
community-based
field-based
data
collection.
So
this
is
one
of
the
apps
we
released
together
with
eth
zurich
called
tree
app.
That
allows
you
to
take
a
picture
of
an
app.
You
hold
a
credit
card
in
front
of
it
and
instead
of
taking
like
a
line
and
measuring
the
diameter
of
the
tree,
we
use
machine
learning
to
segment
the
tree,
bark.
The
card
and
then
just
do
species
detection.
T
The
same
machine
learning
can
be
used
for
detecting
animals
using
large
life
camps,
all
of
that
data
and
all
of
that
technology
and
machine
analytics
can
be
used
to
create
an
estimate
of
carbon
emissions
through
deforestation
over
a
monthly
basis.
Here
this
is
an
annual
basis
where
we
show
a
region.
This
is
the
region
of
the
kayak.
We
work
a
lot
with
they
protect
forests,
twice
the
size
of
the
uk.
So
if
you
would
burn
down
this
forest,
it
would
be
the
annual
missions
of
the
united
states,
but
still
we
talk
about
demand.
T
We
talk
about
supply,
they.
They
are
10
000
people
at
11
guard
posts,
and
they
still
are
not
able
to
raise
enough
funds.
Why?
Because
who
would
pay
1.6
billion
tons
of
like
carbon
credits
right
it's
impossible
to
verify?
So
our
technology
uses
artificial
intelligence
to
estimate
and
show
literally
how
much
they
are
protecting
the
area
compared
to
the.
S
AC
AC
AC
AC
Simultaneously,
donors
are
able
to
trace
the
impact
of
donations
whilst
their
nf
trees,
increase
in
value
as
habitats
are
restored,
gain
forest
will
revolutionize
the
world
of
conservation.
Together
we
can
fund
the
protection
and
restoration
of
our
natural
world,
preserving
it
for
us
and
our
children.
AB
AB
This
is
2012
and
as
we
keep
going,
you
can
see
that
the
deforestation
is
getting
worse
and
worse
over
the
years,
and
so
we
would
like
to
find
a
way
to
help
the
communities
on
the
ground
to
actually
protect
these
on
the
left.
You
get
to
see
the
estimated
forest
cover
at
the
bottom
here.
The
estimated
forest
cover
for
this
area
at
the
this
is
in
percentage
at
the
very
top.
AB
AB
AB
You've
also
got
the
raw
data
of
everything.
Here.
It
is
30
centimeters
per
pixel
resolution
wise
and
the
data
is
updated
every
month
you
get
to
see
transparently
all
the
funding
history
that
goes
inside
and
you
get
to
see
exactly
when
the
data
is
released
into
the
communities.
If
I
would
like
to
donate
into
this
project,
I
could
just
go
here.
AB
AB
So
I
click
on
donate
right
here
approve
my
transaction
and
transaction
successful,
so
I've
donated
one
sole.
If
I
refresh
this,
I
get
to
see
that
6.683
solana
is
locked
inside
the
escrow
fund.
We've
decided
to
use
solana
because
of
its
environmentally
friendliness
and
all
of
the
funds
here
will
be
released
after
90
days.
These
are
the
funds
that
are
have
been
released
and
will
anything
else
that
will
be
released
after
we
make
sure
that
the
estimated
forest
cover
has
been
like
there
are
no
deforestation
occurring
in
this
land
space.
AB
T
AB
So
this
is
an
nft
proof
of
care
once
you
donate
money
into
this
into
the
escrow
fund,
you'll
get
an
nft
and
the
nft
that
you
get
depends
on
how
much
money
you
actually
put
in.
This
is
the
proof
of
care
in
february,
and
you
get
to
see
the
properties
which
are
actually
updated
in
real
time.
How
much
carbon
stock
is
in
there
bird
riches
and
any
other
properties
that
we
would
want
to
add.
T
X
David
and
sharpie,
your
work
brings
so
much
hope
to
me
for
the
future.
I
could
not
express
my
appreciation
more
for
everything
you
guys
are
doing.
Unfortunately,
we
don't
have
time
for
questions
right
now,
but
please
anybody
that
does
have
questions
or
wants
to
learn
more
catch
them
later.
On
and
big
round
of
applause.
E
Y
Y
So
I
helped
found
another
company
called
arbel
and
that's
in
the
parametric
insurance
space,
which
is
basically
just
a
fancy
way
of
saying
data-driven
insurance.
So,
instead
of
filling
out
a
ton
of
forms,
we
deal
with
just
data
and
we
specifically
ensure
climate
events.
So
a
company
such
as
a
texas
utility
company
might
come
to
us
and
say:
hey
we're
worried
about
snowfall
this
year.
We're
worried
about
really
cold
winter
this
year.
Y
So
we
would
like
to
get
covered
from
january
through
march
for
any
inclement
like
extremely
low
temperatures
that
are
below
the
five
ten,
whatever
your
average,
they
choose.
We
track
that
data
and
if
this
event
happens,
we
give
them
a
payout.
There's
no
questions
asked
it's
all
done
on
data,
and
so
we
built
this
platform
using
ethereum
smart
contracts
and
we
plug
into
traditional
fiat
rails
for
the
clients
that
want
that
we
plug
into
you,
know
crypto
rails
for
the
clients
that
want
to
do
that.
Y
Y
So
originally
we
started
out
with
weather
and
agriculture
right
because
there's
an
intuitive
relationship
right
there
and
we
found
that
agribusinesses
had
a
lot
of
use
case
for
our
product,
but
that
same
heat
data
that
goes
into
tracking
the
progress
of
a
corn
harvest,
for
example,
is
the
same
heat
data
that
a
power
plant
wants
to
track
a
summer
heat
wave
with
right.
So
you
can
see
how
this
extends,
and
the
real
key
here
is
that
we
do
it
in
a
hyper
local
fashion.
Y
So
that's
where
I'm
the
chief
data
scientist
there.
So
that's
where
we
kind
of
ran
into
the
first
problem
with
climate
data,
which
is
it
is
really
hard
to
work
with,
and
on
this
slide
we
have
basically
our
mandate,
which
is
how
are
we
going
to
make
it
easier
to
work
with?
And
on
this
next
slide
here
we
have
some
of
the
problems
that
we
ran
into
so
just
to
keep
it
really
straightforward.
Y
You
have
anything
from
esoteric
file
formats.
You
have
data,
sets
that
have
you
know
no
real
documentation
and
or
140
pages
of
txt
documentation
that
you're
digging
through
to
just
find
units.
You
know
what
geographic
range
does
it
cover?
What
is
the
resolution
of
this
data
set?
That's
actually
where
the
domain
of
climate
data
does
get
very
interesting.
You
have
so
many
government
agencies
across
the
world
collecting
this
data
as
well
as
nonprofits
as
well
as
academic
institutions,
but
because
they're
collecting
it
for
their
own
purposes.
Y
Everyone
follows
a
different
methodology
and
you
have
some
data
sets
that
have
very
high
resolution,
but
only
cover
like
the
united
states.
You
have
bigger
resolution,
but
they
cover
the
whole
world,
and
then
you
have
some
really
weird
ones
that
like
only
deal
with
ocean
or
only
deal
with
certain
parts
of
a
country
like
stuff
like
that
right,
so
going
back
to
the
product
side,
we
needed
to
start.
Y
You
know
consolidating
all
this
data
in
order
to
make
our
product
development
easier,
and
we
did
that
for
about
three
years
and
the
product
traction
grew.
We
started
going
into
more
and
more
industries
and
started
collecting
more
data,
and
what
we
realized
is.
We
are
sitting
on
a
treasure
trove
of
climate
data
and
we
should
not
keep
this
in-house.
This
was
publicly
available
data
to
begin
with
and
we
don't
believe
in
creating
moats
by
charging
people
for
data
that
was
originally
free.
That's
a
very.
Y
Talk
about
various
various
aspects,
such
as
like
reforestation,
carbon
offsets,
tracking
minor
carbon
footprint
like
we
look
at
all
this
and
we
think
it's
it's
awesome
and
to
have
the
data
behind
that
to
track
as
these
things
change
is
very
important,
so
our
flagship
product
which
is
currently
in
a
security
audit,
is
the
data
marketplace
right.
So
why
do
we
choose
a
marketplace
approach?
Well,
we
work
with
a
lot
of
free
data
because
it
can
be
agreed
upon
and
that's
helpful
for
insurance.
That's
our
main
kind
of
business.
Y
So
that's
where
our
thought
process
is,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
vendors
in
the
space
as
well
and
there's
this
bigger
problem
of
how
do
you
find
the
data
that
you
need
to
work
with
right?
So
I've
been
a
data
scientist
for
10
plus
years.
I
spent
a
majority
of
that
time.
Working
with
large,
unstructured
data
sets
to
basically
mine
them
for
alpha
to
trade.
Various
markets
and,
to
be
honest
with
you,
working
with
climate
data,
has
been
the
biggest
challenge
and
the
most
difficult
challenge
that
I've
taken
on.
Y
It's
just
really
hard
it's
kind
of
hard
to
even
find
what
data
you
need
now,
I'm
lucky
like
I
work
at
a
tech
company
where
we
have
the
resources
to
deal
with
incredible
large
amounts
of
data.
I
also
have
two
meteorologists
on
my
team
that
you
know
if
I
ask
them
like:
what's
the
best
data
set
to
track
rainfall
in
berlin,
they
know
this
off
the
top
of
their
head
because
they
were
doing
research
in
this
stuff.
Y
You
know:
what's
the
best
data
for
tracking
forecasts
on
a
15-minute
basis
in
the
midwest
and
the
us,
they
know
where
to
go
right,
but
not
everyone
has
access
to
that.
So
the
reason
we
decided
to
start
with
the
marketplace
is
because
it's
a
way
of
indexing
and
organizing
the
world's
climate
data
right.
Y
So
when
I
say
index
and
organize
the
first
kind
of
company
that
comes
to
mind,
is
a
company
like
google,
because
they're
indexing
and
organizing
the
world
but
or
the
entire
web,
but
the
thing
is
the
web
is
a
very
broad
domain
and
so
in
a
very
specific
domain.
I
actually
look
to
something
like
itunes
as
a
great
example
of
how
a
marketplace
is
able
to
index
and
organize
data
in
this
case
apps
in
our
case
it's
climate
data.
Y
So
we
also
have
a
bunch
of
other
projects
going
on
and
a
couple
of
these
have
been
released
and
one
of
them
is
a
sneak
peek.
The
idea
here
is
that
we
can
build
all
sorts
of
analytics
on
top
of
climate
data
that
can
then
be
monetized
and
therefore
we
don't
have
to
monetize
the
base
data
itself
and
we
can
continue
to
allow
it
to
live
for
free.
So
over
there
on
the
left,
you
have
a
screenshot
of
of
a
game
that
we
built
called
storm
brokers.
Y
Y
So
him
and
his
crew
put
this
together
and
it's
a
great
showcase
of
climate
data
stuff,
that's
not
as
grim
as
the
usual
subjects
around
climate
data,
but
it
also
has
an
interesting
alternative
right,
because
we
can,
we
can
put
a
prize
pool
around
there
and
use
this
to
incentivize
and
gamify
forecast
right,
so
some
fun
things
coming
from
there.
On
the
right
hand,
side
that's
a
sneak
peek
of
a
next-gen
carbon
offset.
Y
Y
So
you
have
construction
managers
working
on
you
know
these
skyscrapers
or
even
residential
buildings
and
they're
googling
things,
like
average
temperature
in
july
in
new
york
city,
to
understand
you
know
how
many
days
are
they
going
to
have
to
shut
down
their
their
work
site
so
by
taking
the
available
data
and
giving
them
a
platform
where
they
can
then
put
in
the
thresholds
that
they
know
shut
down
business?
They
can
see
that
okay,
I'm
going
to
have
10
missed
days
during
this
cycle,
or
I'm
going
to
have
100
missed
days.
Something
like
that.
Y
So
that's
a
simple
example
of
how
analytics
are
not
only
helpful
on
the
industrial
side,
but
how
the
current
infrastructure
doesn't
really
have
a
lot
of
this
tooling
available
and
people
are
kind
of
left
in
the
dark
right.
One
of
the
things
that
we
kind
of
talk
about
a
lot
at
work
is
how
you
can't
solve
problems
unless
you
can
measure
them
and
understand
them
right,
and
I
feel
like
a
lot
of
these
simple
tools
that
we
build
help
with
that.
Y
But
on
the
flip
side,
it's
kind
of
crazy
to
me
that
people
are
flying
blind.
If
you
will
so
we
have
a
relatively
complicated
software
stack
and
ipfs
and
falcoin
play
a
big
role
in
that.
So
we
started
that's
right,
so
we
started
by
managing
our
own
ipfs
clusters
and
in
the
future
we
will
be
moving
to
falcon
estuary.
Y
So
the
important
thing
here
is
that,
while
our
governance
runs
on
ethereum,
it's
all
open
source
otherwise
and
can
be
implemented
by
other
blockchains
and
can
be
implemented
by
even
web2.
Our
api
gets
about
a
million
requests
a
month
and
is
used
by
a
lot
of
insurers.
A
lot
of
hedge
funds,
things
like
that.
Anyone
who
basically
wants
to
work
with
climate
data
and
that's
been
working
in
stealth
mode,
so
anyone
here
building
climate
apps.
I
invite
you
to
do
that.
Y
I
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
importance
of
follow
coin
in
our
ecosystem.
It's
only
going
to
get
more
and
more
important.
Estuary
is
an
incredibly
important
tool
for
what
we're
building
and
will
help
us
handle
the
scale
of
climate
data
that
we're
trying
to
work
with,
and
then
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
why
blockchain
is
important
in
this
problem.
So
blockchains
are
inherently
really
good
at
valuing
public
goods.
Y
It
started
with
open
source
software
open
source
software
was
originally
seen
as
kind
of
a
hobbyist
thing
or
like
a
lifelong
dedication
that
you
made
at
the
expense
of
commercial
profits,
blockchain
kind
of
turned
that
on
its
head,
it
provided
an
incentivization
layer
for
open
source
software
that
allowed
people
to
engage
with
protocols
and
make
the
development
of
open
source
software
profitable.
We
think
it
can
do
the
same
thing
with
climate
data.
We
think
we
can.
It
can
do
the
same
thing
with
climate
apps
in
general.
Y
Y
So
when
the
monsantos
of
the
world
say
that
you
know
they're
not
going
to
engage
in
monocropping,
how
do
we
track
that
when
a
certain
you
know,
oil
company
says
that
they're
not
going
to
drill
a
certain
area?
How
do
we
track
that?
How
do
we
track
deforestation
and
then,
lastly,
is
blockchain?
Helps
us
reach
a
few
of
our
goals,
which
are
around
accessibility
of
data
by
basically
making
it
easier.
Y
That's
how
marketplace
infrastructure
that
api
infrastructure
aligning
all
this
data,
the
availability
of
data
there's
a
lot
of
places
in
the
world
where
there
isn't
great
data
collection.
This
is
both
the
case
within
the
us,
as
well
as
in
other
countries.
So
later
this
year
we're
launching
our
iot
program,
which
is
in
beta
mode
right
now,
where
users
will
essentially
be
incentivized
to
mine,
their
local
weather
data
and
it's
a
great
way
to
build
essentially
the
world's
largest
weather
station
network.
Y
It's
a
small
goal
for
2022
for
us
and
then
the
last
part-
and
I
touched
on
it
with
the
verifiability-
is
the
accountability
aspect
right,
especially
with
this
esg.
If
we
cannot
track
the
data,
then
we
can
never
really
hold
the
changes
accountable,
and
that
goes
back
to
what
I
said
earlier,
which
is
you
cannot
solve
a
problem
unless
you
can
measure
it
and
understand
it.
So
that's
that's
my
little
talk
here
got
about
two
minutes.
If
anyone
wants
to
ask
questions,
thank
you.
L
Yeah,
just
sort
of
wondering
so
we
have
sort
of
you-
know
web
three
storage
and
measurement.
We
have
the
incentive
mechanisms
and
I
mean
sort
of
an
unfair
question
to
loving
on
to
you
but
sort
of
everybody
else,
who's
presented
and
so
forth,
like
what
are
your
thoughts
around
web3
accountability
and
making
sure
that
you
know
actually
gets
done
and
like
you're
not
paying
for
projects
which
then
you
know
the
trees
get
harvested
or
whatever.
Y
Yeah,
so
that's
a
that's
a
great
question.
I
mean
the
accountability
comes
in
two
aspects:
right
with
respect
to
projects
getting
done,
reforestation
that
kind
of
stuff
that
goes
back
to
climate
data
as
a
whole
and
the
way
we
track
our
world.
So
climate
data
is
a
very
rich
domain.
You
know
nasa
nasa's,
constantly
launching
satellites,
the
japanese
space
agencies,
launching
satellites.
We
can
see
how
forests
are
changing
over
time
and
that
resolution
is
only
getting
better.
Y
The
general
web
3
accountability
of
you
know
is
d
climate
solving
the
problem
that
it's
set
out
to
solve.
I
would
optimistically
like
to
say
yes
and
I
would
optimistically
like
to
say
most
web
3
companies
are
there's
a
lot
of
good
intentions,
a
lot
of
great
effort,
a
lot
of
smart
people
working
in
this
space.
Z
I'm
just
curious
how
you
guys
are
thinking
about
that
problem,
because
you
know,
obviously
a
lot
of
your
data
inputs
are
coming
from
industry.
You
know
is
that
does
that
standardize
across
different
sectors
right?
They
might
report
differently
like
how
do
you
account
for
those?
How
do
you
account
for
that
variability.
Y
What
do
you
call
it
a
weather
station
network,
so
there
we
can
be
very
confident
that
the
input
data
is
good
and
at
least
agreed
upon,
because
all
industry
participants
are
using
that
we
tend
to
stay
away
from
a
lot
of
self-reported
data,
because
the
whole
goal
is
to
use
objective
data
to
track
these
problems.
I
think
the
other
way
we
solve
the
geigo
problem
is,
you
know
there
are?
Y
There
are
kind
of
companies
in
this
climate
space
that
will
do
things
like
clean
and
fill
data
like
any
missing
data
from
weather
stations,
but
they'll
charge
you
hundreds
of
thousands
of
dollars
to
do
that.
We
give
that
all
out
for
free.
We
use
ai
mechanisms
to
do
all
that
clean
and
fill,
and
by
giving
this
out
for
free
people
can
build
these
better
apps.
So
that's
the
better
input
and
the
iot
program
is
another
input
into
that
right.
Y
Y
I
think
we
get
better
outcomes
when
we
allow
people
to
build
with
that,
and
it's
also
a
better
challenge
for
us
right
like
why
create
a
kind
of
boring,
artificial
moat
when
we
can
just
create
better
products
in
the
case
of
the
iot
program
data,
this
is
so
localized
and
we
are
essentially
paying
people
to
mine,
their
local
data
or
that's
what
we're
going
to
be
doing
that
monetizing.
That
data
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
X
Yeah,
if
no
one
else
has
any
questions,
I
have
two
sure
go
ahead.
Quick,
we
are
setting
up
for
our
last
conversation
cool,
so
you
talked
about
all
the
opportunities.
All
the
applications
that
can
be
built
sounds
like
that
opportunity.
Landscape
is
very
rich
yeah,
but
I
want
you
to
fast
forward
real
quick
five
ten
years
out
from
now,
and
you
have
already
achieved
everything
you've
set
out
to
achieve
with
the
climate
created
this
unbelievable
repository
of
climate
related
data,
decentralized,
there's
tons
of
applications
about
it.
X
Y
Yeah,
so
I
guess
I
guess
for
me
it
would
be
the
the
carbon
product,
so
that
was
the
the
sneak
peak
that
we
have.
I
think
you
know
preventing.
Deforestation
is
an
incredibly
important
part
of
the
climate
problem.
It's
incredibly
personal
to
me
as
well
one
of
the
reasons
I
I
even
moved
to
america
as
a
kid
is
because
my
dad
was
studying
sustainable
development.
How
do
we
basically
work
with
communities
to
prevent
deforestation
and
essentially
teach
them
that
this
ultimately
harms
them?
Y
So
he
came
to
the
u.s
to
do
his
phd
in
that.
So
that's
how
I
ended
up
here
to
begin
with
so
growing
up,
we
always
had
conversations
about
deforestation
and
the
environment
in
general.
So
for
me
that's
a
big
one.
I
think
we
have
a
real
shot
at
cracking
that
problem
and
I
think
blockchain
plays
a
very
important
role
there,
because
you
can
online
ascent
it.
You
can
align
incentives
and
essentially
pay
people
to
stop
cutting
down
trees
right.
Y
Should
head
up
robbie
robbie's
our
head
of
comms
there?
He
actually
gave
me
a
sneak
peek
of
a
limited
edition
drop
that
he's
doing
with
a
different
climate
critter
on
there
we're
thinking
of
maybe
starting
to
sell
merch
with
all
the
proceeds
going
to
various
kind
of
environmental
foundations
and
stuff.
So
he's
working
on
that
we
have
him
working
on
a
ton
of
stuff,
so
well,
we'll
see
when
he
gets
to
it,
but
yeah
hit
him
up
dm
he'll.
Send
you
a
pair
perfect!
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Osho.
X
We
have
just
a
few
moments
while
we
set
up
for
the
next
talk,
but
for
anybody
that
can
hear
me
maybe
back
in
those
back
rooms,
I
highly
suggest
or
encourage
you
all
come
down
take
a
seat.
This
is
going
to
be
a
fantastic
talk
and
as
we're
setting
up
now,
I
can
go
ahead
and
introduction
introduce
them
warren
bonnet.
The
founder
ceo
of
protocol
labs
is
here
to
talk
about
impact
markets.
D
D
In
that
area,
we
have
a
lot
of
work
to
go
from
where
we
are
now
to
that.
But
if
we
can
get
there,
we
can
and
then
we
can
kind
of
create
some
kind
of
like
multiple
of
greenness
of
saying
hey.
If
you
have
falcon
in
your
in
your
environment
in
your
region,
you're,
you
have
like
a
net
positive
activity
environmentally
like
that
would
be
a
fantastic
outcome.
D
I
like
framing
this
in
terms
of
a
chasm
in
innovation
where
we
have
major
incentive
fields
through
which
we
can
get
coordinated
a
lot
of
action.
These
are
just
two
two
major
incentive
fields
in
the
world.
One
is
the
capital
markets
that
lead
to
the
creation
of
corporations
and
business
models
and
business
revenue
flows
and
so
on,
on
which
most
of
the
capital
economies
are
based
on,
and
this
creates
an
incentive
field
for
groups
to
organize
to
build
products
to
sell
in
a
market
and
through
that
solve
problems
at
large
scale.
D
A
an
effective
coordination
system
or
an
incentive
field
in
the
middle
between
discovering
some
really
important
result
or
noticing
that
some
important
problem
needs
to
be
solved
and
doing
the
hard
work
of
refining
conceptual
solutions
or
really
useful
knowledge
that
we
have
into
viable
products
and
viable
systems
that
can
go
into
the
market.
So
kind
of
the
gap
here
between
these
two.
D
There
might
be
other
things
like
creating
entirely
new
incentive
fields.
That
could
be
really
useful,
but
impact
markets
are
just
one
approach
to
solving
this
problem,
which
is
to
say,
let's
use
financial
technology,
to
build
mechanisms
to
extend
this.
This
capital
field
over
to
that
to
cover
that
area.
So,
for
example,
people
noticed
hey,
you
know
like
we
could
decarbonize
the
world
and
sort
of
like
produce
these
offsets.
That's
like
really
important
activity.
Who
can
we
sell
this
product
to
oh,
like?
D
D
So
impact
markets
are
just
you
know,
kind
of
a
more
general
version
of
that
same
idea
and
yeah.
I
think
a
lot
of
people
here
are
super
familiar
with
this
this
this
story-
we've
talked
a
lot
about
it
today,
so
the
certificate
of
impact
story
is
fairly
recent.
It's
and,
of
course,
this
has
roots
in
economics
for
centuries,
probably
maybe
millennia,
but
the
idea.
D
More
recently,
in,
like
the
last
10
years,
there's
been
a
lot
of
conversations
about
these
kinds
of
certificates,
about
these
kinds
of
instruments
and
so
on,
but
it
sort
of
reached
this
very
interesting
point
in
the
last
year,
where
suddenly,
these
conversations
that
have
been
going
for
a
while
sort
of
catalyzed
a
bunch
of
constructions
that
could
actually
be
effective
in
a
number
of
number
of
fields.
So
you
know
huge
thanks
to
the
ea
forum
for
housing.
D
A
lot
of
this
conversation
there's
an
enormous
amount
of
ideation
on
on
really
great
constructions
and
and
structures
and
whatnot
through
this
forum.
There's
a
great
talk
describing
certificates
of
impact
that
you
can
look
up.
The
the
general
idea
of
a
certificate
of
impact
or
a
benefit
market
is
that
you
can
bottle
up
some
good
work
kind
of
like
a
carbon
credit
and
then
sell
it
on
a
market
to
somebody
else
and
similar
to
how
normal
money
is
bottling
up.
D
Some
standard
utility
right
like
you,
grow
a
tomato
and
you
then
sell
the
utility
of
having
a
tomato
to
somebody
else.
You
bottle
that
utility
for
yourself
in
some
currency
and
now
you
can
go
around
and
spend
that
currency
somewhere
else.
It's
the
same
idea
just
with
more
more
generic
notions
of
impact,
and
so
the
the
where
this
is
headed,
which
is,
I
think,
really
exciting.
Is
that
we're
developing
a
lot
of
the
mechanisms
and
the
theory
and
the
the
practical
implementations
for
making
these
markets
much
broader
and
on
much
larger
scales.
D
So
it's
not
just
kind
of
like
carbon
credits
or
rex
or
and
so
on,
we're
building
some
very
general
tools
to
apply
the
same
kind
of
thinking
to
a
bunch
of
other
domains
and
a
bunch
of
other
structures.
So
that's
that's,
I
think
super
exciting,
and
so
I
encourage
you,
especially
in
the
sustainability
area.
Think
of
many
other
kinds
of
ways
to
kind
of
bridge
the
gap
between
some
some
two
two
problems
that
are
not
meeting.
D
Think
of
constructing
some
financial
instrument
there
that
enables
parties
to
profit
from
doing
some
good
activity,
and
especially
the
critical
part
here
that
you
can
make
that
verifiable
right.
So
verifiability
as
a
lot
of
people
have
talked
about
today,
is
central
to
making
any
of
this
work.
If
you
have
poor
verifiability
and
fraud
and
so
on,
then
then
this
doesn't
work
like
you've
broken
incentives
and
whatnot.
But
if
you
can
make
that
verifiable,
then
you
can
there's
a
very
general
solution
to
many
kinds
of
problems.
D
There's
a
recent
idea
that
got
published
last
week
called
hyper
certificates,
which
is
super
exciting,
which
is
a
generalization
of
the
structure
to
kind
of
create
a
specific
instrument
that
can
sort
of
reason
about
the
impact
of
many
different
kinds
of
activity,
sort
of
mapped
within
the
same
space.
So
you
can
think
of
defining
a
hyper
certificate
as
establishing
a
set
of
rights.
D
The
impact
has
been
created
by
a
set
of
contributors,
and
so
you
can
map
the
contributions
of
the
various
parties,
whether
they're,
individuals
or
organizations
and
so
on,
and
that
impact
sort
of
covers
a
specific
set
of
work.
So
you
can
identify
the
work
related
to
achieving
that
impact
and
the
time
interval
over
which
you
mean
to
you
either
you
did
that
work
or
whether
you
are
going
to
give
credit
for
that
work
so
think
of
it.
D
As
like
you
you're
able
to
kind
of
construct
a
certificate
that
says
I
can
grant
the
impact
of
having
worked
on
a
particular
project,
and
I'm
gonna
create
this
financial
instrument
to
cover
the
entirety
of
all
the
work
that
I've
ever
done
from.
You
know
time
zero
to
to
today,
and
I
want
that
certificate
to
cover
the
credit
forever
so
like
from
time
now
into
infinity,
like
that's
like
the
base
case
of
something
like
this,
but
the
moment
that
you
can
create
that
instrument
and
sell
it
in
a
market.
D
You
can
start
doing
some
pretty
interesting
things
because
of
these
parameters.
You
can
start
sort
of
fractionalizing
that
time
you
can
derive
some
other
certificates
and
say.
Oh,
I
want
to
take
this
one
certificate
that
covers
that
entirety
of
time
and
then
starts
blending
it
up
and
like
subdividing
it
or
you
can
merge
other
certificates.
You
can
say
I'm
going
to
take
this
person's
certificate
over
this
project
and
this
other
person's
certificate
over
this
project
and
merge
them
into
another
certificate.
D
That
kind
of
covers
those
two,
so
that
kind
of
composability
and
those
abstractions
are,
I
think,
extremely
extremely
useful
to
generalize
this
whole
notion
of
certain
certificates
of
impact
for
many
broader,
broader
things.
So
it's
pretty
exciting
the
area.
That's
missing
is
that
we
don't
have
good
markets
outside
of
the
sustainability
space,
so
it's
in
the
sustainability
space
already.
D
We
we
have
2d
digital
art,
we
have
3d
digital
art,
we
have
entire
rooms,
we
have
virtual
worlds
being
created,
so
it's
like
a
super
super
rich
environment,
and
this
nft
world
and
market
has
kind
of
figured
out
how
to
make
these
markets
work.
So
I
think,
like
the
gap
here
to
close
now,
is
how
to
take
whatever
we've
learned
from
producing
nft
marketplaces
and
bring
that
into
these
impact
marketplaces.
D
But
you
could
end
up
in
an
environment
where
you
can
see
people's
profiles
and
see
all
of
the
impact
that
they've
bought
over
time
and
this
way
sort
of
create
a
notion
of
like
not
exactly
leaderboards
per
se
but
sort
of
profiles
of
impact.
And
you
can
see
all
of
the
work
that
those
particular
people
or
organizations
have
have
have
caused
retroactively
by
buying
those
certificates
over
time.
So
I
think
a
super
interesting
area.
Hopefully
we
can
use
these
to
sort
of
close
the
impact
custom
that
I
showed
cool.
D
So
I
will
stop
here
and
maybe
plug
the
fact
that
there's
a
burgeoning
world
of
public
goods
funding,
both
kind
of
proactive
and
retroactive
there's
many
events
coming
up
in
addition
to
sustainable
blockchain
work.
There's
things
like
funding
in
the
commons
and
shelling
point.
There's
the
whole
greenfield
movement
so
definitely
check
out
a
lot
of
this
stuff.
T
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
talk
so
and
today
we
learned
a
lot
about
how
difficult
it
is
to
estimate
actually
impact
right.
There's
a
lot
of
uncertainty
factors
a
lot
of
noise.
How
would
you
how
would
you
handle
that
in
the
hyper
certificate
market?
Would
you
allow
price
discovery
to
accumulate
for
the
noise
or
would
you
would
you
think
about
other
ways
to
be
very
transparent.
D
Yeah,
so
verifiability
is
a
key
piece
in
any
of
these
impact
markets,
and
I
think
verifiability
is
very
different
for
domain
right.
So
how
you
go
and
verify
carbon
sequestration
is
extremely
different
to
how
you
might
go
verified
that
somebody,
somebody
saved
somebody's
life
or
that
somebody
went
and
donated
blood
or
that
somebody
went
and
and
cr
and
discovered
a
really
important
scientific
principle
that
enabled
us
to
do
a
lot
of
other
work.
D
That
is
a
very
tricky
incentive
structure,
as
we've
probably
talked
about
it.
A
lot
today,
there's
all
kinds
of
broken
incentives
or
or
difficult
gaps
in
each
one
of
these
markets,
but
I
also
don't
think
it
is
intractable.
I
don't
think
it's
impossible
to
solve
those
problems.
I
think
it's
just
pretty
hard
and
complicated,
and
if
you
start
with
a
goal
of
saying
well,
you
can
get
something.
D
That's
sort
of
like
good
enough
there's
some
threshold
of
good
enough
to
make
the
market
work
once
you
start,
you
kick-start
the
market,
then
a
lot
of
participants
get
involved
in
that
market
and
at
that
point,
they'll
start
demanding
better
and
better
higher
quality
verifiability.
So
just
get
the
verifiability
to
be
good
enough
and
you
can
use
trust
there
significant
lean
on
some
some
amount
of
honest
actors
that
are
helping
boot,
this
market
up
to
sort
of
lend
a
lot
of
credibility
to
the
space
and
then
over
time.
D
You'll
come
up
with
many
different
ways
of
achieving
verifiability,
but
I
think
the
key
is
kind
of
like
get
the
market
started
and
then
all
of
the
participants
will
be
very
interested
in
making
sure
it's
legit
right.
So
if
this
sort
of
happened
with
carbon
credits
and
offset
and
so
on,
there's
all
kinds
of
problems
today,
but
if
people
had
waited
to
have
a
perfect
system,
we
probably
wouldn't
have
implemented
anything
but
up
until
now.
So
everyone's
kind
of
think
we
have
to
be
iterative
about
it.
Z
Z
S
Z
If
you
look
at
carbon
markets
or
other
you
know,
biodiversity
markets
that
they
tend
to
sort
of
discriminate
against
the
global
south
or
other
you
know
sort
of
historically
excluded
groups.
So
how
do
we
you
know
moving
forward,
build
in
from
like
a
place
of
exclu
inclusivity,
as
opposed
to
exclusivity.
D
Yeah
I
mean,
I
don't
think,
there's
a
short
answer
to
that.
There's,
like
a
whole,
you
know
fields
of
people
working
on
solving
these
massive
problems.
I
think
it
starts,
first
and
foremost
with
a
lot
of
principles
of
people
and
communities
so
in
those
communities
making
sure
to
open
the
door
at
all
cases
and
consider
this.
D
I
don't
know
if
there's
like
a
an
impact
like
a
recursive
solution
here,
where,
like
you,
could
use
impact
certificates
in
this
way,
like
probably
because
they're
supposed
to
be
general,
but
I
just
wouldn't
count
on
it
in
the
short
term.
I
think
this
is
much
more
a
current
social
problem
that
that
needs
a
lot
of
action
from
a
lot
of
people
yeah.
I
don't.
D
I
don't
have
good
answers
other
than
pointing
to
many
other
people
who
have
come
up
with
really
good
answers
about
how
to
how
to
do
it
in
the
space.
I
think
events
brought
in
the
access
and
understanding
of
what
all
of
these
things
does,
I
think,
is
really
useful.
So,
for
example,
creating
a
lot
of
learning
materials
and
opportunities
for
learning
about
the
technology
is
really
key.
So
diffusing
the
understanding
of
why
these
things
matter,
how
to
use
them
and
making
the
entry
point
really
like
dramatically
easier.
I
think,
will
help
a
lot.
D
I
think,
creating
local
communities
across
the
world
in
a
lot
of
places,
diffusing
the
knowledge
there
and
empowering
people
there
to
figure
out
the
knowledge
and
then
let
them
figure
out
the
components
that
they
want
to
build.
I
think,
is
really
key
yeah.
I
broadly
believe
in
just
a
lot
of
knowledge.
Diffusion,
just
empower
a
lot
of
individuals
and
groups
to
know
why
these
things
matter
and
let
them
decide
what
to
what
to
do.
I
X
D
AD
Yeah
happy
to
start.
First
of
all,
thank
you
all
of
you
for
being
here
today.
We
know
there's
a
lot
of
events
happening
at
south
by
and
it
means
a
lot
that
this
is
a
topic
that
you
all
care
about
in
this
room.
I
actually
started
working
in
the
green
movement
back
in
2008,
I
wrote
to
congress
and
was
really
really
angry
with
what
was
happening.
AD
The
lack
of
action
around
climate
change
and
ended
up
working
at
the
epa's
environmental
protection
agency,
working
on
carbon
credits,
and
I
saw
a
lot
of
failures
early
on
as
there
was
incentives
and
a
new
system
to
really
get
people
to
be
more
environmental
and
so
what's
happening
right
now
in
the
blockchain.
Space
is
incredibly
important
and
I
would
say,
you'll
hear
from
us
today,
incredibly
innovative,
where
there's
new
mechanisms
that
blockchain
technology
allow
that
did
not
exist
before.
AD
Currently,
I
am
the
founding
officer
of
the
file
coin
foundation,
which
was
created
as
an
idea
since
the
launch
of
file
coin,
but
has
been
around
for
a
while
around
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
my
co-founder
megan,
and
I
we
really
put
wheels
behind
it
to
really
build
up.
A
team
with
a
large
portion
of
the
team
today
focus
on
some
of
the
environmental
efforts
that
you'll
hear
about
the
foundation's
goal
is
really
to
ensure
long-term
governance
of
the
file
client
network,
and
so
we
do
this
through
supporting
security
funding.
AD
B
Amazing
yeah,
I
did
not
know
that
was
2008
when
you
you
started
being
involved
in
these
things.
I
actually
also
started
working
in
renewable
energy
in
2008,
doing
solar
cell
research,
and
I
did
my
my
phd
at
mit
and
batteries
and
energy
storage,
and
that
led
me
to
sort
of
really
want
to
understand
right.
How
do
different
technologies
interact
with
the
power
grid
and
how
can
we?
How
can
we,
you
know,
come
up
with
this?
B
As
we
are
undergoing
this
energy
transition
and
and
hopefully
rapidly
decarbonizing
the
power
grid
and
the
rest
of
our
economy,
then
the
falcon
network
launched
and
it
started
growing,
really
really
fast.
I
think
everyone
was
was
really
amazed
at
how
quickly
it
was
growing
and
people
started
really
asking
how
much
electricity
is
this
using?
What
are
the
environmental
impacts,
and
I
started
talking
especially
to
angie
about
that,
and
we,
you
know,
really
hatched
this
plan
to
dig
really
really
deeply
into
understanding
at
a
super
granular
level.
What
is
the
energy
consumption?
B
D
B
B
What
are
the
upper
bound,
lower,
bound
and
estimate
as
to
the
energy
use
of
every
single
node
on
the
falcon
network,
and
just
because
of
the
architecture
of
filecoin,
you
can
actually
see
how
many
resources,
every
node,
is
contributing
to
the
network
over
time
and
get
really
really
granular
data
on
that.
So
that's
all
based
in
the
chain.
So
so
I
think
we
have
really
powerful
tools
there
for
understanding
what
those
those
impacts
are,
at
least
for
electricity,
then
moving
beyond
that.
We
want
to.
B
You
know,
allow
storage
providers
to
be
able
to
prove
that
they
are
taking
action
to
reduce
their
impacts,
and
so
we're
talking
to
a
lot
of
storage
fighters
and
working
on
these
on-ramps
for
allowing
verifiable
actual
energy
measurements
rather
than
just
estimates
and
building
those
into
our
tools.
Then.
D
Okay,
quick
question:
so
when
you
look
at
falcon
green
from
the
foundation's
perspective,
what
parts
of
it
are
you
excited
about?
What
what
are
you?
What
do
you
wish
was
working
better
or
yeah?
How
do
you
sort
of
like
look
at
the
project
and
what
would
you
if
you
could
wave
a
magic
wand
and
have
it
kind
of
like
grow
in
some
direction?
What
would
it
be.
AD
Yeah,
so
out
of
the
foundation,
there's
really
two
pillars:
we're
focused
on
number
one
is
collaboration,
we're
always
looking
to
collaborate
with
new
organizations.
So
alan
just
mentioned
a
couple.
You
know:
there's
organizations
like
decent
that
we
just
funded,
which
are
a
storage
provider,
that's
looking
at
using
solar
energy
on
roofs
and
mapping
that
into
the
work
that
they're
doing
on
the
storage
and
mining
side.
AD
So
that's
really
really
interesting,
because
I
don't
think
there's
anything
else
like
that
out
there
right
now
in
the
market,
so
really
being
able
to
have
these
flagship
case
studies
that
hopefully,
we
can
scale
at
a
broader
base.
The
second
area
that
we're
looking
at
is
really
transparency.
That
speaks
to
a
lot
of
what
alan's
saying
around
transparent
dashboards
that
you
can
really
map
and
see
how
much
energy
are
four
thousand
storage
providers
all
around
the
world,
how
much
you're
consuming
at
any
point
in
time?
AD
And
if
you
think
about
this
in
the
respective
web,
2
and
other
kinds
of
industries,
there's
no
one
that
has
started
with
transparency
as
the
forethought,
even
before
something's
launched
most
of
the
time
people
do
it
because
of
regulation.
We
are
taking
the
step
to
really
do
this
first
as
we're
building,
and
so
I
think,
that's
really
really
exciting.
The
area
that
I
am
most
interested
in
and
excited
about
that
we're
about
to
spearhead
is
we're
trying
to
get
a
lot
more
environmental
and
public
data
onto
filecoin.
AD
So
in
2012
I
started
working
as
part
of
the
open
data
movement.
In
los
angeles,
I
started
an
organization
called
hack4la
and
was
really
thinking
about
what
open
data
means
for
everyday
citizens,
because
ultimately,
data
like
the
environment
should
be
accessible
to
all
and
should
not
be
manipulated
by
anyone
right,
and
it's
very
easy
for
companies
to
hide
that
today.
AD
If
their
numbers
are
not
successful,
so
I
think
it's
really
fascinating,
because
you
know
this
past
december
we
worked
the
city
of
new
york
and
we
actually
uploaded
uploaded
their
open
data
to
filecoin
to
the
decentralized
web.
So
it
doesn't
matter
who
comes
into
office,
that
data
will
be
permanent
and
one
of
the
subsets
of
data
we
uploaded
is
air
quality
data,
and
so,
if
any
kind
of
government
comes
in
the
future
wants
to
hide
that.
AD
I
know
some
of
that
was
actually
disappeared
during
the
trump
administration
randomly
a
lot
of
the
the
we
do
not
know
why,
but
every
time
that
happens,
we
will
have
a
backup
on
file
coin,
which
is
which
is
fantastic,
and
so
I
think
that's
really
the
story
about
the
decentralized
swept.
I
think
there
is
no
greater
cause
and
something
like
the
environmental
data.
AD
Everyone
uses
as
a
public
good
that
we
need
to
have
permanent
storage
for
and
so
getting
more
of,
that
data
set
on
we're
going
to
be
finding
a
lot
more
grants
around
things
like
ocean
data,
working
with
a
number
of
environmental
justice
groups
out
of
our
nonprofit
arm
file,
coin
foundation
for
the
centralized
web,
and
so
definitely
stay
tuned
for
more
announcements.
There.
B
Please
go
to
our
new
website,
green.followcoin.io
and
click
on
the
open
grants,
tab
or
just
go
to
the
open
grants
repo
on
github,
and
please
do
if
you
have
an
idea
for
a
project,
please
do
apply
for
a
grant
because
we
want
to.
We
want
to
help
people
build
open
source
tools
to
do
this
type
of
work.
Yeah.
D
AD
Yeah
so
right
now
we
have
three
available
types
of
grants
that
I
hope
all
of
you
guys
in
in
this
room,
will
click
and
apply
because
there's
different
ways
you
can
get
involved.
If
you
are
a
storage
provider
you're
doing
something
with
filecoin,
we
have
a
bug
bounty
board
for
storage
providers,
which
can
be
up
to
a
thousand
five
thousand
dollars
at
most
for
really
quick
grants
to
solve
problems
that
we
need
on
the
environmental
side.
AD
There's
the
grants
that
alan
just
mentioned
so
we
launched
a
category
of
our
developer
grants
focus
on
file
point
green,
where,
if
you're,
building
products
or
tooling,
we
can
give
up
to
you,
know
100
000
under
that
category,
just
submit
it
everything's
transparent
through
github.
So
we
really
encourage
you
to
do
that
and
then
the
third
category
of
grants
which
we're
calling
the
explorer
awards
just
actually
was
announced
last
week
at
our
social
impact
summit
for
fall
coin
foundation
for
the
centralized
web.
AD
These
are
small
rapid
grants
up
to
ten
thousand
dollars
for
people
exploring
what
they
can
do,
including
the
environment
right.
So
if
you
want
to
host
a
dinner
party
with
environmental
justice
groups
and
talk
about
what
the
decentralized
web
can
mean
for
you,
we
can
fund
that
if
you
want
to
write
a
white
paper,
if
you
want
to
explore
and
just
spend
a
month
looking
at
really
interesting
issues,
no
one's
thought
about.
D
B
So
you
know
specific
ideas.
Are
things
like
looking
at
marginal
emissions
factors
from
grids
or
just
just
average
emissions
factors?
You
know
your
your
grid.
Carbon
intensity
varies
based
on
where
you
are
in
the
world
right,
and
so
we
want
to
see
how
people
take
this
location
data
and
this
energy
use
data
and
translate
that
into
different
projects.
Right
where
you
can,
you
know
see
if
I
do
this
thing
in
web
3
right
in
my
project
and
that
ultimately
traces
back
to
actions
happening
on
followcoin.
B
How
is
my
environmental
footprint
affected
by
that
right
and
we?
We
really
want
to
build.
We
want
to
build
web3
into
the
space
that
you
need
to
be
working
in
if
you're
doing
environmental
accounting,
because
we
think
the
potential
for
these
tools
is
just
so
comprehensive
and
so
powerful
to
be
able
to
take
input.
Data
from
whoever
my
my
supplier
is
or
whoever
I'm
connecting
with
right,
then
figure
out
what
my
my
impact
is
in
my
project
and
then
pass
that
data
along
to
whoever's
building.
B
D
Okay
same
question:
what
are
the
sort
of
projects
that
you
would
be
excited
to
see
happening
at
a
larger
scale?
Like
maybe
maybe
say
some
somebody
goes
and
gets
an
explorer
grant
and
they
discover
some
problems
face
which,
or
somebody
would
like
to
go,
do
that
they
just
might
not
know
which
area
to
go
to
where
towards
what
kind
of
problems
would
you
point
them
to.
AD
Yeah,
I
think,
there's
there's
so
much.
I
think
today
there's
so
much
innovation
that
is
happening
in
blockchain
that
the
public
doesn't
even
think
about.
I
think,
there's
so
much
negative
press
on
blockchain
and
environment.
I
think
a
project
just
exploring
what
can
we
do?
That's
innovative
in
the
blockchain
space
for
the
environment
that
no
other
technology
has
been
able
to
do
in
the
past,
and
that's
really
interesting
narrative,
because
I
think
a
lot
of
people
are
still
wrapping
their
head
around.
AD
There's
a
lot
of
companies
say
that
are
even
exploring
with
carbon
credits
that
the
government
is
giving
out
right
how
to
even
verify
that
those
are
the
act
that
companies
are
doing.
What
they're
saying
with
measuring
carbon
removal-
and
so
I
think,
there's
so
much
that
we
haven't
even
scratched
the
surface
of
that
we
can
highlight
with
what
is
happening
with
how
quickly
blockchain
is
being
developed
and
then
second
there's
a
ton
of
events
happening.
That
is
nearly
monthly.
Alan
runs
a
monthly
falcon
green
meet
up
that.
D
Super
important
so
digging
into
that
right
now
there
are
a
lot
of
bad
memes
around
blockchains
and
energy
use,
and
so
on.
What
do
we
have
to?
How
can
we
change
that
that
narrative
and
those
memes,
what
are
the
kinds
of
things
that
have
already
happened,
that
we
can
point
to
as
really
great
indicators
or
maybe
what
are
the
things
that
you
would
like
to
see
happen
in
the
near
term?
B
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think,
the
way
you
change
the
the
memes
is
by
doing
a
really
good
job
at
being
verifiably
and
transparently
sustainable,
and
so
you
know,
I
think,
I
think,
establishing
these
these
tools
right
is
a
really
important
step
to
like
give.
Let
people
make
it
make
it
not
something
that
is
just
you
know
an
impression
people
have
out
and
out
in
the
internet
right,
but
is,
is
actually
grounded
in
real
data
right
and
like
that
is
something
that
web
3
excels
at.
B
We're
really
searching
for
what
are
all
of
the
different
ways
that
we,
as
as
an
ecosystem,
can
catalyze
the
renewable
energy
transition
and
and
catalyze
in
more
broadly
a
sustainable
relationship
between
the
economy
and
natural
systems.
Right,
and
so
you
know,
we
we
are
connecting
the
network
to
renewable
energy,
we're
also
building
more
solar
right,
so
protocol
labs
just
put
35
million
dollars
into
a
fund.
D
So
one
part
is
building
the
tools
and
the
measurement
to
make
it
all
verifiable
and
legitimate
great.
So
we
can
do
all
of
that
and
then
what
if
we
fail
on
communicating
the
story?
So
what
maybe,
where,
where
to
go
from
that?
How
do
we
tell
the
story
to
the
world
and
point
out
what
is
already
happening?
That's
really
good
that
or
what's
coming
yeah.
AD
Yeah,
so
I
would
love
to
share
a
new
initiative.
We
just
announced
last
week
called
the
decentralized
futures
council.
This
is
something
where
we're
trying
to
tell
policymakers
and
the
general
public
about
how
the
work
that
we're
doing
around
infrastructure
for
the
web
is
slightly
different
from
some
of
the
innovation
happening
on
the
d5
side,
and
so
I
think
that
consular
education
and
storytelling
is
more
critical
now
than
ever,
because
most
people
don't
quite
understand
the
infrastructure
level.
It's
not
sexy.
It's
not
interesting.
AD
It's
not
cute,
like
some
nfts,
but
it's
the
most
important
thing
that
is
out
there
to
really
think
about
the
next
structure
of
the
web,
that
all
governments
and
the
public
eventually
will
have
to
deal
with,
and
so
I
think,
investing
in
places
like
this
we're
a
huge
advocate
of
the
blockchain
association
that
does
a
lot
of
this
translation
to
policymakers
on
a
constant
basis
and
so
constant
education.
I
think
all
of
you
guys
in
this
room.
AD
AD
We
met
with
an
esg
dao,
that's
bringing
together
a
number
of
environmental
activist
groups
and
really
thinking
about
renewables
in
a
different
way
right
and
so
there's
so
many
structures
in
blockchain
that
make
it
so
much
easier
to
bring
people
even
those
that
are
not
technologists
or
builders
to
the
table.
To
really
start
this
conversation-
and
I
think
it's
not
just
up
to
us
here-
but
the
entire
ecosystem
and
everyone
else
involved
to
also
carry
the
conversation
forward.
B
B
This
whole
sort
of
movement
within
crypto
more
generally
and
apply
that
to
environmental
problems
right
so
and
I'm
thinking
of
systems
that
don't
just
decide
what
your
your
footprint
is
or
whether
your
offset
is
good
or
not
or
not,
but
decides
who
decides
right?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
take
groups
of
people
throughout
the
world
and
empower
them
to
make
decisions
and
then
discuss
and
have
discourse
about
how
we
want
to
govern
these
systems
and
translate
that
into
action?
B
D
We're
in
the
nfd
house
and
there's
a
lot
of
nft
art
happening
now.
I
think
art
can
be
tremendously
impactful
in
conveying
messages
and
communicating
how
things
what
what
things
matter.
Maybe
we
should
just
start
buying
a
lot
of
nfts
that
show
and
tell
the
story
of
of
this
kind
of
thing
right.
So
I
wonder
if,
like
there's
a
way,
maybe
there's
some
missing
missing
in
the
space
like?
D
AD
I
was
going
to
say,
I
think
in
2007
2008,
when
an
inconvenient
truth
hit
hit
the
wide
market.
It
woke
up
the
world
to
what
was
happening
in
the
environmental
crisis,
and
most
people
forget
that
nfts
are
not
just
jpegs
they're,
all
kinds
of
content
forms,
and
so
you
know
there
could
be
another
version
of
the
inconvenient
truth
or
some
artist
or
some
filmmaker.
That
creates
that
we
could
do
that
through
the
explorer
grant.
D
Yeah
I'm
reminded
that
the
mona
team
who's
in
the
audience
wants
to
run
a
builds
for
green
spaces,
and
so
maybe
doing
something
like
that
in
the
future
would
be
would
be
really
cool
great.
So
I
would
love
to
wrap
up
with
some
calls
to
action
for
the
for
the
audience,
both
the
people
here,
the
people
watching
this
the
people
discussing
this
talk
later
on.
D
You
know
I
personally
want
to
call
everyone
to
take
decarbonizing
the
world
extremely
seriously
and
lean
into
the
super
powerful
tools
that
blockchain
systems
give
us
they're
a
way
of
programming
the
world
and
think
of
more
ways
of
doing
that
or
lean
into
the
ones
that
exist,
and
maybe
you
know
so.
I
would
love
to
kind
of
turn
it
to
you.
What
cause
of
action
would
you
have
for
for
the
people
in
the
audience
or
the
people
here
in
the
stock,
whether
storage
providers
or
developers
or
communicators.
B
Yeah
100
on
the
storage,
broader
side.
I
am
I'm
incredibly
inspired
by
all
the
work
that
sps
are
doing
to
take
all
this
data,
and
you
know
not
just
data
on
or
take
data
on
what
they
are
doing
to
become
more
sustainable
and
make
that
public
and
verifiable
and
sort
of
blaze.
The
the
trail
in
allowing
a
lot
of
pro
of
projects
and
distributed
networks
do
the
same
right,
and
so
I
think,
if
you're
in
sp
definitely
take
a
look
at
the
dashboard.
B
Look
at
look
at
what
it
says
and
compare
it
to
your
actual
energy
use
and
help
us
build
on-ramps
to
put
actual
measurements
in
in
the
dashboard
and,
in
other
other
places,
right
store,
actual
power,
measurements
online
and
start
basing
decisions
based
on
a
measurement,
not
an
estimate.
It's
really
powerful
and
we
are
figuring
out
how
to
do
that
now
and
are
working
on
that.
So
please,
you
know
be
involved
in
that.
AD
D
A
All
right
everyone
it's
over
whoa,
as
one
said,
we
are
going
to
do
another
sustainable
blockchain
summit,
but
we're
taking
it
to
my
side
of
the
pond
and
it's
going
to
take
place
in
paris
in
july
2022
and
so
keep
an
eye
on
the
falcon
green
twitter,
it's
at
falcon
green
and
to
learn
more
we're
going
to
have
an
open
cfp.
So
if
you
didn't
get
the
opportunity
to
speak
today,
we
want
to
hear
your
voices.
A
We
want
to
hear
about
your
projects
now,
on
behalf
of
the
falcon
green
team,
we'd
love
you
to
join
us
for
a
drink
or
two
and
next
door.
We
have
a
bar
set
up.
We
have
some
lovely
canopies.
Thank
you
so
much
again
for
joining
us.
Thank
you.
So
much
to
our
speakers
and
we'll
see
you
in
july
take
care.
Thank
you.