►
From YouTube: The future of web3 infrastructure
Description
Panel Discussion at Peer-to-peer networks meetup
Host: David Aronchick, Director of Research and Development at Protocol Labs
Panelists:
Vukasin Vukoje, Filmine Network Founder
Justina Petraityte, Developer Success Lead at Ceramic/3Box Labs
Yondon Fu, Co-founder and a Head of Engineering at Livepeer
Evgeny Ponomarev, Fluence Labs co-founder
Why are there multiple data solutions with traction but little open p2p computing traction?
What happens if we get to a fully p2p compute and storage world?
what is needed to scale further in storage or compute?
what should investors be looking at in this space?
A
Okay,
let
us
get
going
well.
Thank
you
all
so
much
for
coming
this
evening.
We're
not
gonna
have
a
quick
panel
on
all
the
flying
speakers.
We
had
tonight
Justina
voop,
evgeny
and
yonda
I'd
like
to
start
with
Justina
what
you
know
we
have
been
making
so
much
progress
in
web
3
and
really
advancing
the
state
of
the
art.
Yet
there's
still
obviously
a
gap
Beyond
just
the
stuff
that
all
of
you
are
working
on.
What
do
you
think
the
biggest
thing
holding
us
back
is.
B
I
think
there
are
a
few
things
here
really
I
will
try
to
make
my
answer
as
short
as
I
can,
but
I
think
one
of
them
is
that
in
general,
like
Tech
has
to
improve,
like
even
it
doesn't
really
apply
the
ceramic
specifically,
but
in
general
applications
that
are
being
built
in
web3
right
now.
I
think
I
mentioned
that
in
my
talk
as
well
that
most
of
the
things
that
I've
seen
so
far
are
really
good
in
terms
of
financial
standpoint.
B
B
I
was
at
Defcon
a
few
weeks
ago,
and
it
was
actually
a
talk
from
live
peer
that
I
heard,
and
they
mentioned
a
really
interesting
idea
about
that,
and
they
said
that
the
real
break
will
happen
when
someone
will
build
an
app.
That
is
not
only
better
than
what
we
have
in
map
2,
but
that
doesn't
even
exist
in
web2.
So
I
think
we
really
have
to
keep
thinking
bigger
and
instead
of
just
trying
to
replicate
what
we
have
in
web
2,
which
is
obviously
great.
B
C
On
top
of
like
the
users,
they
were
using
other
services,
they
just
sold
the
VMS
for
much
more
more
higher
prices,
but,
on
the
other
hand,
like
I
think
what's
holding
us
back,
is
the
fact
that
we
are
really
not
collaborating
enough.
If
you
think
about
what
happened
in
ethereum,
most
of
the
yeah
sound
is
better.
Most
of
The
Innovation
came
from
the
fact
that
you
had
different
smart
contracts,
interacting
between
each
other,
and
if
you
look
at
computing
and
what
we're
doing
today,
we
are
really
not
doing
that.
C
We
have
a
bunch
of
computing
networks
all
doing
one
particular
thing
which
cannot
by
itself
be
better
than
what
cloud
providers
provide.
But
if
we
combine
multiple
networks
and
we
have
workloads
interacting
between
each
other,
then
we
can
actually
do
things
that
were
not
possible
before
imagine
having
a
zoom
application
that
is
decentralized
and
then
having
the
ability
to
have
a
bunch
of
filters
that
are
built
by
open
network
where
you
have
a
marketplace
where
people
can
actually
decide
what
kind
of
filters
they
want.
Maybe
that
is
a
super
smart
way
off.
C
Like
removing
your
background,
maybe
it's
a
way
for
our
augmenting.
Your
background
on
what
people
are
talking
about
in
that
particular
Zoom
call.
So
those
are
things
that
are
not
possible
today
and
opening
up
the
market
both
for
developers
that
can
build
those
backgrounds
and
filters,
but
also
for
compute
providers
that
can
run
those
and
earn
money
for
doing
those
and
then
reducing
further
the
calls
between
30X
that's
something
that
definitely
is
not
possible.
Today,
that's.
A
E
So
great
question
I
think
a
big
reason
is
in
the
status
quo
and
in
the
status
quoic
development.
It's
just
really
convenient
and
it's
really
convenient
to
default,
to
known
quantities
and
AWS
and
cloud
service
providers
are
known
quantities
and
I.
Think
that
is
a
hurdle
that
can
eventually
be
surmounted
by
a
lot
of
the
infrastructure
that's
being
built
in
this
space.
E
At
the
same
time,
I
think
it's
important
for
infrastructure
Builders
to
work
hand
in
hand
with
app
developers,
even
when
that's
not
the
case
and
work
with
the
app
developers
that
are
especially
taking
alternate
approaches,
sort
of
to
what
you
were
alluding
to
before,
where
like
we
definitely
lead
better
versions
of
the
web.
2
applications
that
we
already
have
today,
however,
I
think
there's
a
huge
opportunity
to
take
a
different
route.
E
Initially,
as
well
and
identify
what
web3
and
crypto
actually
can
uniquely
enable
and
because
it's
Unique
and
fundamentally
cannot
be
achieved
with
web
2
applications,
there
is
room
for
there
to
be
a
gap
on
the
infrastructure
level
and
then
that
allows
the
applications
to
actually
drive
the
roadmap
of
the
infrastructure
because
the
applications
are
demonstrating.
Oh,
this
is
a
clear
use
case
and
this
is
clearly
something
that
infrastructure
and
web
2
cannot
do
so
it
makes
total
sense
for
you
to
improve
on
it.
A
F
Well,
I
think
it
was
a
good
question,
I
think
some
of
these
pieces.
Definitely
we
just
need
better.
You
know
better,
like
evolution
of
them
in
in
Webster
space.
Some
of
these
Pieces
Just
will
well
I.
Think
a
lot
of
this.
It
depends
on
the
scale
like
right.
Conceptually,
things
like
I
want
to
run
some
code
on
some
infrastructure
that
magically
runs
and
magically
scales.
F
I
I'd
say
like
I,
mean
at
some
point:
we
will
get
to
the
place
where
we
will
have
quite
enough
infrastructure
to
build
proper
applications
that
competitive
with
web
2
applications,
but
in
in
many
areas
we
are
not
there
yet,
and
you
know,
as
guys
rightfully
said,
that
we
need
to
try
to
really
work
really
tied
with
application
developers
to
build
those
infrastructure
and
enable
those
exact
use
cases
that
help
them
today.
So
they
can
today
onboard
more
users
and
drive
more
demand
for
the
infrastructure.
A
So,
let's
shift
a
little
bit
instead
of
looking
at
all
our
gaps.
What
are
the
things
that
we
do
uniquely?
Well,
just
you
know
what
do
you
when
you
see
people
coming
and
using
ceramic
at
like
scale
or
or
saying?
Oh
I'm
ditching
my
old
thing,
because
it
doesn't
offer
what
you
offer.
What
do
you
lean
into
there
or
what?
What
apps
have
you
seen
that
really
set
set
a
new
bar.
B
Why
I'm
such
a
big
fan
of
Open
Source,
because
not
only
you
share
what
you
are
working
on,
but
you
get
ideas
from
so
many
different
developers,
teams
that
are
working
on
the
same
problems
and
you
kind
of
you
you
have
that
like
togetherness
in
terms
of
working
and
building
on
top
of
things
and
and
sharing
that
so
I
definitely
see
that
and
I'm
such
a
big
fan
of
that,
and
also
communities
that
surround
every
single
project
in
web3
is
amazing.
I
love
that
part
now
specifically
about
let's
say
ceramic
and
things.
B
One
of
the
key
to
use
cases
that
we
see
right
now
is
web
3
social.
That
is
definitely
one
of
the
top
use
cases
that
we
see-
and
here
are
the
I
would
say
two
key
reasons
why
we
have
teams
like,
for
example,
orbis
if
anyone
in
in
the
audience
heard
of
them
they're
really
great
project
and
they
basically
allow
users
to
own
their
data.
First
of
all,
and
that's
the
biggest
advantage
and
difference
from
what
we
have
in
web
2,
because
social
media
is
so
powerful.
B
It's
it's
amazing
and
now,
with
things
like
a
single
sign-on,
you
open
up
even
more
opportunities
for
big
companies
like
Google,
for
example,
or
Facebook,
collect
your
data
in
so
many
different
areas.
So
by
building
on
web3,
you
allow
users
to
make
sure
that
their
data
is
not
stored
on
these,
like
fragmented,
centralized
places
and
then
at
the
same
time,
the
same
composability
and
and
the
building
in
the
in
the
open
with
other
developers
the
same
data
models.
B
They
are
being
improved
by
other
developers,
so
they
can
make
improvements
faster
and
and
develop
much
faster
and
then
another
one.
I
I
mentioned
that
in
my
talk
as
well
Dao
tools
as
well,
they
are
looking
into
how
verifiable
credentials
could
be
stored
in
a
more
secure
way
on
on
web3
and
how
they
can
build
a
necessary
tooling
for
for
Dao.
So
this
is
something
that
we
still
see
growing,
but
it's
definitely
a
lot
of
interest
from
that
end.
So
yeah.
A
Book
kind
of
taking
it
from
the
other
side.
Those
are
great.
You've,
obviously
built
some
enormous
Partnerships
and
worked
with
people
behind
the
scenes.
A
little
bit
like
what
evgeny
said
like
how
do
we
bring
Partners
to
Market
in
the
same
way
that
Justine
is
bringing
users
to
Market?
What
do
you
see
as
the
pull
through
there?
Why
are
Partners
signing
up
for
web
3?
What's
pulling
them
in
yeah.
C
I
think
it's
generally
because
for
the
first
time
we
are
able
to
coordinate
big
like
lots
of
people,
and
we
finally
have
the
ability
to
have
particular
actors
focus
on
only
one
particular
activity
and
have
everyone
focused
on
their
parts
and
together
as
a
society,
we
can
coordinate
in
solving
like
larger
problems.
This
is
really
not
possible
today
because
like
if
you
want
to
do
anything
in
terms
of
like
comparing
you,
you
always
need
to
create
Some
Cloud
account.
You
need
to
have
a
company.
C
The
company
needs
to
be
linking
Voice
by
that
particular
organization
selling
you
that
service
and
so
on,
but
you
don't
have
ways
off
like
maybe
pulling
together
resources
in
order
to
have
a
solution
for
a
particular
cause.
For
example,
you
could
imagine
having
compute
providers
focus
on
solving
like
a
particular
disease,
because
that's
something
important
for
a
particular
community
and
then
you
could
have
like
other
communities,
basically
sticking
funds
or
investing
in
that
particular
pool
and
having
a
an
incentive
for
particular
compute
providers
to
like
execute
the
compute
jobs
that
actually
help
discovering.
C
A
E
So
for
collaboration,
I
think
just
using
our
domain
as
an
example,
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
thinking
obviously
about
video,
but
generally
about
how
media
content
is
handled
and
all
the
different
Computing
infrastructure.
That's
required
in
that
and
I
think
that
gives
us
a
fairly
unique
insight
into
like
some
very
domain
specific
problems
there.
But
if
you
zoom
out-
and
you
forget
about
the
fact
that
we're
dealing
with
video
and
media,
it
can
be
very
easy
to
just
say
that.
E
Oh
this
is
a
distributed
computing
project
and
because
it's
distributed
computing,
we
can
take
a
general
framework
and
have
that
apply
to
any
form
of
compute
that
you
try
to
do
and
I
think
that's
the
Holy
Grail
right
like,
of
course,
we
would
all
love
to
see
that
happen,
but
I
think
that
is
also
theoretical
and
a
little
bit
removed
from
the
reality
and
practical
reality
that
we
have
today
and
while
that
might
be
a
worthwhile
thing
to
work
towards
I,
think
that
is
a
gap
and
like
Chasm.
That
I
think
is
worthwhile.
E
Bridging
on
the
collaboration
front,
where
it's
like
taking
like
using
us
as
an
example.
The
time
that
we've
spent
kind
of
looking
deep
in
this
domain,
Maine
about
like
what
is
specifically
quirky
and
weird
about
some
of
the
work
that
we're
doing
here.
That
makes
it
a
little
bit
different
from
other
types
of
distributed.
Computing
projects,
I
think
having
that
Insight
being
brought
to
the
table
and
making
that
clear
and
having
these
conversations
with
people
can
be
useful
because
then
it
it
helps.
E
E
Think
differentiation
should
be
around
like
once
again
going
back
to
that
specific
domain
like
it's
great
to
collaborate
on
these
like
shared
technical
problems,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
think
each
of
us
also
need
to
remain
laser
focused
on
like
our
users
and
that
specific
needs
that
they
have
so
to
the
extent
that
we
should
be
collaborating.
I
think
we
should
always
be
thinking
about.
E
A
Makes
sense,
I'll
ask
one
more
question,
then
I'll
open
up
to
audience.
You
just
raised
a
round.
Congratulations
when
you
think
about
what
investors
are
looking
for
in
the
space
you've
heard
a
bunch
of
different
ideas
here,
differentiation
extension
and
things
like
that
when
you
went
through
your
process,
what
were
they
most
looking
for
you
to
talk
about?
What
did
they
want
to
hear
that
that
other
people
can
lean
into.
F
F
That,
like
like,
say,
for
example,
a
lot
of
these
examples
are
marketplaces
like
life
peer
or
like
fluence
like
basically,
we
all
do
some
some
sort
of
marketplaces.
We
have
providers
and
we
have
customers
and
then
we
connect
them
and
we
create
the
value
and
the
token
basically
allows
to
subsidize
this.
The
bootstrapping
on
this
Market
or
like
put
additional
rewards
to
Providers
or
put
additional
rewards
to
the
customers
and
basically
the
the
enable
higher
efficiency
than
you
know.
F
It's
obvious
things,
but
you
know
instead
of
uber,
we
have
decentralized
Uber.
We
because
we
eliminate
the
company,
we
can
have
lower
margins
and
we
can
power
all
the
whole
economy
with
the
token.
So
investors
look
at
such
areas
where
this
model
just
makes
sense
and
if
it
makes
sense
in
in
your
area,
then
it's
a
good
opportunity
to
really
like
replace
the
the
big
Tech
with
their
current
monopolies.
We
are
thin
or
like
well,
you
can
call
it.
You
know.
A
A
C
Yeah
I
I
would
say,
like
probably
I
mean
how
you
should
think
about
web
free,
like
the
first
use.
Cases
are
going
to
be
like
this
super
slow,
super,
cheap,
Computing
workloads
and
if
you
think,
because
that's
where
you
can
actually
provide
20
30X
improvement
over
decentralized
providers.
So
if
you
think
what
are
those
workloads
most
likely?
That's
going
to
be
machine
learning,
maybe
it's
going
to
be
inference.
That's
a
use
case
where
you
can
imagine
a
bunch
of
traction.
C
Probably
it's
going
to
be
a
bunch
of
things
around
the
data
processing
and
so
on.
Those
are
not
as
sexy
as
having
a
iPhone
actually
through
an
application
calling
a
backend,
but
those
are
very
different
problems
and
those
are
the
kind
of
problems
that
we
have
today.
Maybe
what
you're
going
to
also
see
like
is
probably
protein
folding
and
things
like
that
that
were
basically
impossible
to
incentivize.
F
A
Anyone
else
have
a
question:
anyone,
okay,
so
actually
vuc
I
want
to
open
it
up
to
whoever
would
like
to
answer
this,
but
but
really
extending
that
where's.
The
pivot
point:
where
is
it
to
like,
when
you
think
about
going
Beyond
either
what
is
possible
in
web
2
or
not
convenient
in
web
2
from
a
scale
perspective?
What
do
you
think
that
is
yeah.
C
I
think
we
are
generally
in
a
stupid
situation
where
we
have
like
a
coordination
problem,
like
all
the
tools
are
there,
but
we
have
no
coordination
between
the
different
projects.
So,
for
example,
fluence
has
a
great
Tech
stack,
but
very
few
nodes
are
right
now
run
influence
because
they
focus
on
building
the
attack.
Rather
than
focusing
just
on
pure
token
economics,
then
you
have
like
filecoin
that
has
a
great
tax
tag
for
a
high
Val.
C
Ipfs
is
still
not
incentivized,
so
like
it's
super
hard
to
actually
have
like
that
layer
that
is
required
for
fluent
jobs
to
actually
be
able
to
run
influence
workloads,
and
then
you
also
need
to
have
like
the
separate
layer
of
Dev
tools
that
are
basically
using
fluence
technology,
combined
with
the
ipfs
combined
with
file
combined
with
a
compute
layer
that
is
actually
going
to
run
the
entire
thing
and
yeah.
We
have
so
many
layers
of
complexity
to
just
get
to
our
executed
job.
C
So,
generally,
what
my
opinion
is-
and
this
is
of
course,
the
reason
why
we
started
working
on
the
resource
layer
is
that
we
need
to
have
a
global
incentive
that
basically
allows
infrastructure
providers
to
run
all
of
those
networks
on
the
same
machines
and
in
that
way,
being
able
to
have
like
multiple
workloads
interacting
between
each
other,
because
we
might
not
be
able
to
incentivize
someone
running
ipfs
at
this
point.
But
we
might
incentivize
that
someone
running
ipfs,
if
that
is
required,
to
get
a
reward.
A
E
E
I
think
there's
an
opportunity
in
crypto
and
web
3
to
leverage
some
of
the
unique
value
propositions
of
crypto,
around
attribution,
Dynamic
and
automated
value
distribution
to
create
new
media
formats.
Centered
around
things
such
as
Community
code
creation,
I
think
one
of
the
most
interesting
things
that
infrastructure
can
enable
by
being
permissionless
and
open
is
allowing
communities
to
build
on
top
of
that
co-create
media
and
content
or
new
types
of
things,
and
then
having
that
value,
attribution
and
distribution
reward
them.
I.
E
Think
those
types
of
formats
are
the
things
that,
if
we
as
infrastructure
Builders
at
live
peer
can
enable
in
the
short
term,
will
be
the
big
differentiation
and
then
once
we
layer
on
the
cost.
Differentiation
as
well
will
demonstrate
the
true
value
of
web3
infrastructure
for
video
relative
to
the
status
quo.
D
F
F
We
just
have
to
keep
you
know,
trying
to
combine
pieces
together,
try
to
collaborate
in
and
see
whatever,
like,
whatever
really
gets,
traction
whatever
works
for
the
user,
whoever
user
is
like
whether
it
is
a
developer,
whether
it
is
like
a
a
smaller
medium
business,
Enterprise
consumer
mobile
users,
web
users,
like
it's
just
so
many
layers
here
and
huge
space
of
experimentation.
Just
like
quick
example
of
ethereum.
F
Had
this
vision
of
you
know
that
financial
application
is
going
to
be
built
and
the
token
is
going
to
be
built,
but
they're
also
like,
if
you
remember
like
2015
or
2016
and
17,
there
was
a
lot
of
conversations
about
use
cases
of
a
theorem
much
outside
of
fintech.
Like
you
know,
all
these
smart
locks,
like
I,
can
send
transaction
to
open
the
door
like,
which
is
still
makes
sense.
F
A
A
B
I
think
probably
the
key
thing
that
right
now
makes
me
really
excited
is
overall
decentralized,
science
and
machine
learning
space
which
for
me,
when
I
started
working
in
map
3
about
seven
months
ago.
Actually,
not
not.
That
long
ago
was
one
of
my
biggest
questions
and
doubts
like
I'm
leaving,
web2
and
I.
Did
all
this
data
ml
kind
of
work
and
like
what's
happening
in
web3
and
I
thought
there
is
not
much
happening,
but
actually
there
is
a
lot.
B
It's
a
really
growing
space
and
the
people
are
asking
really
really
great
questions
from
how
funding
can
be
done
better
for
research
and
how
web3
can
enable
that,
so
that
research
is
not
locked
and
not
like
managed
by
some
specific
companies
that
can
fund
specific
projects
to.
How
can
we
do
machine
learning
and
all
of
this
computation
better
in
a
more
scalable
and
and
faster
way
as
well.
B
So,
like
all
of
these
projects
that
I
see
around
that
three
data
that
are
popping
up
and
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
I'm
I'm
part
of
ceramic
team
is
because
they
are
part
of
that
ecosystem
as
well.
I
really
hope
that
they
will
open
up
more
opportunities
for
data
to
be
more
open,
more
shared
and
also
the
same
about
all
of
these
amazing
projects
that
are
working
on
with
these
really
hard
computational
problems
and
and
yeah
really
open
up
the
network
for
some
really
really
great
great
and
interesting
thing.