GitHub GitHub Constellation India 2022, 25 May 2022

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From YouTube: Open Core To Open Source - Building a Business Model: Panel Discussion

Description

Open Source is everywhere. Today, 99% organisations use Open Source software and some of them have also built a business model with either Open Source or Open Core software. In this panel discussion, we are going to talk to co-founders of 4 such organisations who have built thriving businesses around Open Source.

A

Hello, everyone and a warm welcome to all of you in today's panel discussion. Our topic for today is open code to open source building a business model. My name is gandhali samanth and I lead the developer ecosystem and market engagement charter at github. As you all know, open source is everywhere. There is hardly any industry where open source adoption on penetration hasn't happened.

A

Yet, according to a survey conducted in 2017, 99 of organizations use open source in some format, and then there are organizations who have gone ahead and built their entire business model around open source. In today's panel discussions, we are going to talk to founders or co-founders or for such organizations who have built thriving businesses around open source. So without further ado, let's get introduced to our panel today, we will start with neha gupta, who is the co-founder of keploy, an open source api testing platform.

A

She has been in product development for around seven years. She has also contributed to open source projects like ex-wiki, jenkins, etc, and she loves to mentor students in different programs such as google summer of code gci and outreachy welcome neha.

A

Thank you. Thanks.

A

We are very happy to have you here. Next we have pranav raj tripuran, who is the co-founder and ceo of chatwood, he's a false enthusiast and he's passionate about building developer communities. Welcome pranav.

B

Hey thanks, thanks for having me here, excited to be here.

A

Our third panelist, for the day is harini is the co-founder and ceo of rohi dot io a low code platform to build your product back in in minutes all in the browser prior to this harini was a vp of engineering at blackrock and also a partner at an early stage. Vc. She is an advocate of open source software, as well as women in thing, a master's degree in computer engineering from university of texas at austin, welcome harini.

C

Thanks for having me great to be here,.

A

And our fourth panelist is rishabh mehta, founder of frappe and erp. Next, his passion is to revolutionize business software by building a high quality free and open source. Erp erp nexus is a fully featured platform and can be used by teams in many different domains.

A

Rishabh likes to be personally involved in all the activities right from software development to team building and does many different roles at his organization. Welcome rishabh,.

D

Thanks thanks again really great.

A

Okay, so, as our topic suggests today, we are going to talk about open source to open core building business model. So my first question is to you: neha: how do you differentiate between open source and open code?

A

E

Okay, you know, since open source is now very ubiquitous and widely adopted, so everyone is pretty aware that equally available software right, but I want to spend licensing that a true open source uh license or a platform is something that is allowing its users or one to use edit or even redistribute or sell um to to their heart's desire and when, when it comes to open core uh on the other, it's it's more like to me. It's a business model to monetize the open source software.

E

So you know the idea is simple: that build an open source product but offer an additional premium functionality, which is under a commercial license that you know, restricts the modification and redistribution of that. So that's according to me, is a core difference in open source and open core.

A

Thanks harini pranav, would you like to add anything to it.

B

um Yeah, I think uh so to me, um like you know, there is always a community as well as, like you know, a business for uh an open source uh based businesses right like, for example, like you know, uh as if you take an example of chat food, we have a larger community who actually uses our open source uh product, which is which has like you know most of the features but, like you know, it doesn't have a set of features which might not be relevant for uh a smaller, smaller users or smaller businesses.

B

So I think uh the community like to build the community. We need manpower, we need. uh We need the capital, we need more and more uh people to in get involved. So what I feel is like uh so as a as a distinction uh and as a difference between open source and open core.

B

What what I see is like you know, to build the larger community. We need uh some way to capitalize uh the existing product and so they're. Like you know, we have some features which will be restricted uh under a certain license. So, uh like you know, at chatwood, what we are building is like you know. We have open source uh product which is in mit license, and there is a set of features which is under enterprise license, which has uh like you know, which needs a license to uh you, know, use so yeah.

B

I think, like you know like for me, the difference is, like you know, open core actually, like you know, helps to build uh open source communities.

A

Thanks pranavan niha, I think uh I think it gave us good clarity about how to differentiate between open source and open core. My next question is for you rishabh. uh How do you build an open core business model? What is the thought process behind it.

D

um So you know we actually are uh fully open source. We are not in the open core uh side of things, and uh you know we decided that uh so so open core and open source. uh You know like said that there is a lot of good reason. Right I mean you have to sustain your business at some level and open core is a great way to identify features.

D

I come from a slightly different perspective that uh you know I mean there is like: where do you draw the line? Ultimately right I mean that that is a very difficult question that people need to ask that. uh Ultimately, if you're going to ask your users to if you, if you're going to position your product as an open source product, your users do expect that uh you know your product is, uh you know, really free and open source right and for us you know we really monetize from hosting and uh services.

D

You know that's our model, so we we kind of come from the uh you know. Maybe the outlier in this group here so yeah.

A

Well, outliers is good because you told us about how your open source business model works. Harini. Would you like to add? Is your model open source or open core.

C

Yeah, I can talk about our approach to open core or what we like to call commercial open source model as well. That's kind of prevalent right now, uh so we have a base open source model. That's completely free uh the code base. uh You can self host or you can. We also have a hosted version, that's also free and we have a paid model that we actually still launching soon.

C

That gives you access to pro features that, in addition to the base, open source version, gives you uh things that are dependent on more infrastructure or things that need you to maintain things that typically uh a one person or a team using the open source model might not need. So logically, it makes sense that those kind of features go into the hosted uh pro paid feature. So that's how we are approaching the open core business model.

A

Thanks harini, so as we see there is this trend today right, it's growing to be open source or open core based organization.

A

So my question is for you prana: why did you decide to be a open code based organization.

B

um So yeah, I think, like you know before coming to that, I I would like to answer like you know why it is open source uh so uh like there is uh like if you look at the uh regulations right now,.

D

B

Like in gdpr or cpr or.

D

Any data regulation which.

B

Is coming up in the world, uh companies are moving towards? uh Having, uh uh like you know, their own infrastructure, like you know the managed infrastructure for their customers so that they don't uh transfer data to third party right. So at that point uh it makes sense uh to have a self-hosted.

B

uh You know kind of a software and open source actually, like you know, helps us to do that uh in a pretty good way and uh like when, when we actually like, you know, thought about making it open source and building a business out of it. There were a couple of options for us. One was uh you know we completely open source it and then build a cloud version of the software. Just like you know, russia is doing, uh or we could actually like.

B

You know, build the entire thing uh as open source and use uh support uh subscriptions from that, and the third thing was, uh which was proven and, like you know, which has a lot of potential. Was that, like you know, you have a base model where which is used by a larger community, and you have a set of features which is restricted uh to accept like to like which will be used by either larger companies or, like you know, people who who wanted customized features.

B

So we we figured that building larger businesses requires this kind of approach, uh and hence uh we actually, like you know, went into being an open core company rather than uh like you know, adopting other phones.

A

Thanks prana uh russia, would you like to tell us why did you decide to be an open, open source based organization.

D

um So we we started way back right. I mean we started in 2008 when there was very little awareness of open source business models and- and the prevalent thinking in 2008 2009 I mean 10 years ago- was that only red hat makes money from open source right.

D

uh Nobody else does I mean today we are in a very different market, very different scenario, where you have a whole bunch of uh open source companies, commercial, open source companies that have come out, and I mean it's essentially due to the rise of the cloud I mean once once the cloud became the de facto deployment model for software. uh You know the whole movement uh to distribute software on cloud became open source and developers started, taking more decisions, and you know the best way to get per developer is through an open source.

D

So it's it's just a very new thing that we have seen uh you know. Obviously you know the mongodb going public and you know the acquisition of github by microsoft right. These were very, very important events for the whole ecosystem to shift to a pro open source model. I mean this: wasn't there 10 years ago, 10 years ago, nobody would touch open source. We have seen like a whole tectonic shift in this uh business. I mean we come from a more traditional mindset.

D

I mean I, you know, my business model was essentially what wordpress was that you know we. We will provide the software for free, but we will provide hosting. uh Currently we don't distinguish between the software and it does give us some disadvantage, but I think in the long run uh we do believe that there is, there will be enough uh proprietary or there will be enough.

D

uh You know, services, commercial services that we will be able to build around hosting and around you know, building a network and around delivering services that you know we will be able to sustain even without going open core we've stuck to it. I mean our license has been gnu gpl v3 from the get go, and I don't and we don't intend to change it now. If I were to start today, maybe I don't know.

A

See so all of us know that uh I would say, the success of open source projects are dependent on it's dependent on the number of people are contributing it or using it right. So adoption is the key here. uh So my question is to you harini: how do you drive adoption of your platform.

C

Yeah, so we focus on a couple of things to drive adoption first through awareness where we are, you know trying to talk about what the project does and uh how it can help other people build their products easily through you know various things like content, videos and easy to use templates that people can really fork and get started, and then we have like significant emphasis on growing the community via contributions and conversations and also integrations with other tools in the platform uh that we can.

C

uh You know collaborate with, so it's not like a we are building in isolation. We are collaborating with other open source project creators and the community. um We are also working on engagement at a community level by you know you know, being proactive and addressing various issues prs and like discord messages, because I think at a core level, open source is basically community, so engaging with the community. Keeping it thriving is one of our core goals as well.

A

Thanks fareni uh neha, would you like to add your thoughts to it? How do you guys drive adoption at kipline.

E

Yeah, I mean uh we are still very early stage, so I don't have much to add, but we've been getting a lot of traction from uh you know social channels like discussing on uh subreddit uh or of go community developer communities, and uh uh these are helping us with you know, getting a lot of feedback uh and- and you know spreading the word throughout the community people talking about keploy in uh different blog posts.

E

Your cast, uh that is a major uh channel, and also since you know, uh kiplois is a uh an api testing platform which captures captures data in a very intensive manner, so uh to be 100, open source and that adoption to be present within the developer community uh was something uh that was our strategy to. You know: uh drive adoption amongst uh developers.

A

Thanks nina thanks for sharing that with us, so my next question is actually open uh for all four of you. uh You know I would like to. I would like each of you to kind of answer this. So what are some of the advantages, as well as disadvantages that you have encountered of being uh open source or an open core based organization?

A

um Right now, do you want to go first.

B

Yeah sure so I think advantages are obvious. You get a lot of traction from an adoption from uh open source community. uh You have you you'll, be able to build a good community of product enthusiasts without uh like without much effort. uh So I guess like that. Actually, like you know, adds uh adds to uh the like the the effort required uh for you to build such a community. If you are a close source product is much high. uh That of being open source, reduces that and uh on on the flip side of it.

B

uh It also likes uh add a much more uh like you know, I would say, like you know, not a disadvantage, but, like you know it gives you uh much distraction in terms of like you know, people might want different things. How do you prioritize uh uh these different uh requests? Like you know, how do you prioritize your product roadmap? How do you product uh prioritize the requests which are coming in so it's just that, like you know it's in the open, you need to build a process uh to get a handle on that.

B

So I think, like you know, being open source is always an advantage because people can see the code. It helps you in sales, because uh you know people can just test out the open source product and then you know reach out to you. uh If it is interesting uh and yeah, I mean again, like plus a good.

D

B

Is that, like you know, you have a good community of product people uh like people who love the product so.

A

Thanks for now, uh harini do you want? Have you seen any disadvantages as well of being a you know, an open core uh based organization.

C

uh Yeah, I mean you know there are as you as pronouns mention a lot of advantages, but in terms of disadvantage, it kind of adds another layer of complexity to a product that you're already building, essentially because you know every feature or anything in your roadmap that you're thinking about you need to think about where it fits, whether it fits logically in the open source or it has to be in your kind of hosted or like the paid version.

C

And how do you actually then deploy to the community in a way that is transparent, because you know the advantages of open source is also that you are maintaining a level of transparency uh for people. So uh essentially, you know deploying different features in a more um reliable and consistent manner across your open source and uh the closed source kind of a proprietary um core model that you're building on top of it. So that's something that could be a disadvantage uh for your community.

A

Thanks thanks harini uh rishab uh any other thoughts. Since you said you are a little bit of outlier here. What are your experiences.

D

I mean, if you I mean I I I yesterday I was at a discussion with uh students about you, know: building businesses around open source, and I mean so building a business is hard building a good product is even harder and building a good product and a business and giving it away for free is like you're. Just you know, just adding all the all the difficulties right. This is. This is the most difficult part in a way right, because you are giving away your product for free.

D

You are you know, building you're, building something good first right, because open source and open core whatever you want to call it is essentially brutally meritocratic. I mean just because you're giving away your stuff for free doesn't mean people are going to use it. They want it to be as good as consumer grade software. So so that's the expectation they want it free right and, and then it comes with lot of uh expectations from the community. It comes with.

D

uh You know, a lot of entitlement, uh you know it's, the communities are not kind, I mean you know. If you're giving away something for free doesn't mean that they'll always love you for it right, they will expect more they'll expect you to build features uh even contributors right I mean uh you know I mean uh I, I see some early stage projects right.

D

I mean early stage projects, love contributors right, but once you hit a point you know you don't want contributors, because you realize that contributors uh are not here for for a long ride, especially people who are just going to contribute one thing and then go away and then leave it to you to maintain their contribution.

D

So you really want to build a community. That's long-lasting. You know that has a long-term perspective are going to be around for a long time. So I think there are a lot of a lot of disadvantages in building this model. The big advantage is obviously that you know you get distribution from a business perspective. You get marketing and distribution for free, uh but yeah. It's it's. It's a very hard business to be very.

A

Honest thanks, rishabh neha. Do you have anything else to add uh to what all the other three panelists say.

E

Yeah I mean uh majorly. I agree with the advantages that there is unlimited potential in terms of getting feedback from the community, since there is mutual transparency. um You know you can talk about and mutually bring tom with upcoming uh parks fixes. You know community likes and dislikes, and the community support uh it only gets trickier or confusing. um You know as a disadvantage.

E

Sometimes you get an overwhelming input from the community on various topics. For example, uh this recently happened that uh we wanted to add product telemetry to the uh open source, uh keploy platform and uh 90 percent of the users are okay with it.

E

But there are, you know five to ten percent, which are very highly vocal uh when they are against something or they do not like something, and this kind of situations create a confusion with the direction sometimes, and it is not just uh with a you know, a simple feature it can get to in even to the technical architecture and different things so yeah, that's something that where it gets trickier.

A

Thanks neha, so you and rishabh both brought out uh aspects of community in this whole uh process right. So my next question and again I'm from github, so our focus is all around developers. So I really want to know what has been uh experience for each of you uh to target this developer audience via open source using your platform. So um again, neha, maybe we'll just start with you and go around the clock.

E

Sure I mean uh we generally, you know, talk to developers and sdts in the go community. uh The channels since deploy currently supported go we talked to developers on github around. You know those discussions.

E

uh What could be added more or not, and even when we changed our keploy logo, we took leverage of uh github community and the uh you know sources that we have, and it really helps us with coming up different uh aspects of seeing a feature for our users and taking into actions.

E

So uh that way you know it is really helping us uh to target developers and take feedback from them, and you know reiterate the loop.

A

Thanks neha uh pranav. What has been your experience.

B

Yeah, I think the reason why we uh started open source and, like you know, targeted developers, was that uh during our um like the place where I worked last, uh like you know, we had this internal tool which we used for uh customer support and all the customer data uh like it. It's generally, like you know not the actual business. uh It's actually like, you know kind of an internal tool, most people don't like it and it's always standard. There might be a little bit a small element which you want to tweak.

B

You want to update, and for that reason you might be like you know, building the entire thing from scratch. So we wanted to avoid that. We wanted to give people a base platform where they can build. They can uh build their tools, like you know, to to organize their customer data to organize uh their support, requests and stuff like that.

B

So uh what we have provided is like you know: we build a platform where we can, uh like developers, can build on their own integrations and their own extensions on top of chat food and so far we have seen uh quite a lot of things which we couldn't. Even imagine if we are doing it as a as a close source product, so I think, like you know, being uh being director of developers and, like you know, getting their attention uh is really important to us.

A

Thanks thanks for now, uh rishabh anything that uh you want to add here, since you have been doing this for a very long time, and also you know if you have seen any change uh in last few years,.

D

Yeah I mean so we we actually learned two large projects. One is erp next, which is like, which is targeted to almost every business out there, because it does financial accounting and there we are not mostly they're. The kind of developers we are dealing with are mostly freelancers. You know so so some company wants an erp. Next implementation, they'll get hold of a freelancer, and then you know that freelancer may or may not continue to contribute in the community.

D

That, and and out of that, you know, we've probably able to identify four or five really good long-term contributors uh through the community right uh and and the other big project we run is a frappe framework, which is essentially a the the tool that we use to build erp next and and it's it's kind of a low code, uh rapid application development. You know that's what it used to be called before the term low code was, uh you know, I've seen I've lived through both of those cycles.

D

So it's a rapid application development tool, low code framework in these days, and that is more targeted to developers, though we haven't really been out there, uh promoting. As much as erp next- um and you know our experience is, is you know I mean it really depends on the quality of software you're you're giving out right? I mean you know we, our software, wasn't that great for many years you know now it's reasonably uh reasonably good or I would say it's acceptable. uh So so you know the kind of software you put out.

D

Is you know the kind of developers will attract, so it's very brutally meritocratic out there. So.

A

D

A

Thanks thanks rishabh harini. uh Do you want to add anything to this last question.

C

Yeah I mean so. If you're building like a product, that's for targeted, non-developers audience like marketing or operations, then open source is possibly like.

C

You know some, not something they're, mainly looking for they're looking for something that solves their problem and they don't care if the product is open, source or not, whereas like if you're, focusing on building a developer tools, product, which is what we are doing with a dev tool, um and I can speak for myself or like how other developers feel uh if there's a completely closed source option, and there is an open source option.

C

I tend to gravitate towards the open source, because uh you know if you hit some feature limit or something like that, you can continue to extend at a code and contribute back and uh so with roy. We are building like a no code platform that basically allows you to get started like a no code, but then you can continue to extend at a core level anytime. You need, and our experience with you know, seeing how developers are extending it in different scenarios has been really interesting.

C

uh Various kind of use cases, and that has been a really good learning experience for us.

A

Thanks thanks so much harini, so I think we are on time, and this brings us to the close of today's panel discussion uh thanks a lot neha prana for you know, sharing your journey, your experiences of building your organizations.

A

I think this is a growing trend today, so your experiences will help lot of you know new startups and organizations who are going in the same directions as each of you did so with that uh thanks a lot once again, and I would hope to talk to you all of soon.