GitHub Open Source Friday, 28 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: Maintaining open source projects as a student

Description

This Open Source Friday, we’re chatting with the maintainer
Jessica Tegnerto learn how she got involved with Pypandoc, a wrapper for pandoc, as a college student.

Join us today at 1:00 pm ET on http://twitch.tv/github.com

RSVP: http://gh.io/pypandoc

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A

I love to see people in the chat already saying: hi I'm so high back at y'all as well. Somebody said this sounds exciting. I'm gonna tell you for sure. If somebody said what's the name of the music I, don't know, I got it from canva, but it's it's super awesome. But if this is your first time watching, this is open source Friday, where we chat with an open source maintainer about a project they're working on or sometimes it's a core contributor I'm super excited, because today's guest is Jessica and I will let her introduce herself.

B

Oh, thank you um hi. Everyone really nice to see so many of you in chat already uh yeah, so my name is Jessica. I am in my 20s I'm, currently a student, a computer science student living in Denmark. So that's my quote-unquote full-time uh thing and then I do I'm about to do an internship and I'm also as as was said and open source maintainer.

A

A

Post on Twitter that we're live, but that is yes to hear that you are doing all of that um and I wanna. Is it okay, if, like before I export your project is, am I able to, or are you okay with me just quickly, pivoting and asking like? How are you able to do all of this stuff, including being a college student, an intern at Uber and a maintainer of an open source project.

B

Yeah like doing that, and then you know also now getting into um public speaking, um how do I do it all? That's a good question, I think I, just um I, don't know I I, just kind of I've been coding for a long time, so I don't need to invest so much time into my um studies, which is a terrible idea.

B

Always you know you do your studies but I learned much more by doing my open source projects and apparently some people find that interesting enough to um where I can go to companies and say: hey, look at the things I've built and they they'd actually take me serious and give me an interview um and now I'm here. So that's a thing.

A

That's okay. First of all, that's really smart, that you're leveraging open source to kind of build your career and help you to to land jobs and stuff like that, because that's true now people see that you have like applicable working like project in the world that other people are using and it shows that yeah like I, can work with different complexity. I can work with different teammates and in fact, I can manage teammates because I um in the session we were in earlier.

A

um Someone mentioned that open source maintainer is kind of like an engineering manager. So that's that's really awesome and yeah I wish I was like you, because I only started to code like in 2018 and I need all the studying. I can get. Oh my my next question to you is like what exactly is your project? What's um pie, pandok? If I'm saying it right? Yes,.

B

You are um so pipe. Handbok is a very pythonic, but also a very thin wrapper around the a program called pandok, which is in itself a document conversion tool.

B

um What pandag is is a tool that allows you to convert um specifically like basically any formats to markdown and back so you can have like a Word document.

B

You can want to convert it to markdown, then edit, it by writing markdown, which we all love and then convert it to PDF back to word, to HTML and so on, and this makes it a pipeland that makes that easier to do in Python, where you, you don't have to focus on like command line arguments, and you don't have to focus on if you're typing stuff correctly, because it has um a lot of verification and sandboxing built into pipe handog. Where they'll tell you hey um this, this is not a valid format.

B

um The it kind of gives you it saves you from all the pits faults, so you just can do the conversions that will normally be a massive like two or three lines you can do in in one simple line as an example.

A

That sounds really useful. That sounds very, very useful and I'm.

A

Just like um how and I have this question here for maybe folks who, like they are not experienced what web development at all and then maybe it does sound pretty like simple and straightforward to me, but maybe are you able to break it down even a little bit further on like if, if you, if someone was like five years old, like what exactly is pandok and then how does pie Panda play a role in it, I feel, like your your last answer, just said it, but I guess I'll just expand on it.

B

Take whatever document you get put it into to pipe handog and it will use pan dot to convert it to a document. You love even more that's simpler to use.

A

A

Perfect and then like, how did you even get I I titled, this maintaining open source projects as a student? How did you get involved in pi, pan dog and to the point that you're now maintaining it I think that's an interesting trajectory where, like maybe some students or even really experienced developers or like I, don't even know how to start contributing. So how did you get to this point that you're maintaining a whole project great.

B

Question so what I originally did was I made a program um targeted primarily at the Blind and Visually Impaired community. That would help them convert um files with complex structures such as a Word document that can be pretty difficult for a screen reader to pick up into an easy to format and easy to read um well format, which was marked on and I love python.

B

So I searched around Google around and I found Pine pan dogs, which kind of became the Cornerstone in in this program, called viscon, which is direct visual, like visual, connects. That's how I got my start into just using um pipan dock um and and asked that kind of grew the um it's congru as a project, I kind of got to know every little nook and cranny of pie, pan dog, both on the coding side and on the documentation and testing side, um because Pipino has to keep up with the releases of the developer tool.

B

It's wrapping um and I I kept raising issues and I kept making pull requests and asking for new features. I was very annoying, probably um and at one point, I had an email, not even on GitHub, but an email uh chat with the at that time. Care maintainer where I asked, um because he didn't seem to work anything on it himself and he seemed to have moved away from from python altogether.

B

So I just asked a very question: hey if you're not going to update it anymore and you you want the big responsibility taking off of you. I would be happy to take over maintainership because I really use it and I can see that other people also use it which I I will totally get back to um and he was like. Yeah I. Actually don't want the responsibility anymore. You can have it just hear all them into internship.

B

You can remove me from everything uh like uh permission, wise with publishing and all that um and that's how I got handed a project I used for as a component in in my project and now I maintain maintained by Panic.

A

That's amazing, I think I think it's your initiative that that's amazing, because I feel like a lot of people, might have just sat there and been like dang I wish I could be the maintainer, but they wouldn't reach out and ask, and sometimes it's just like the simple like just go ahead and ask how can I help? How can I be involved or how can I maintain this and I like how it's like the trajectory was like you started off as someone who was using it passionate about it.

A

Then you wanted them to make improvements, so you started getting involved in creating issues asking questions, making pull requests and then, like you, you started contributing and then you're like wait. A minute. Maintainer is not he's not doing that much anymore, um so I, I, I, love that um and before we go into the demo, um I guess as a preview, somebody asked Newland, lotsu I hope they said that um I um I'm pronouncing this right, but they said Can piepan, dot, convert from PDF, I guess I, don't know to what is the question.

B

Everything else, basically, um yes, python pipe handock can convert from PDF by using either a latex engine. That's installed on the machine or with a third-party package which I funnily enough, also created, because I needed to be able to bundle A1 attack engine into my program, which made another wrapper in Python possible. So, yes, the short answer is she has to complicated answer. Is yes but there's a few extra step, but yes, okay,.

A

That's it no and then one other question. I thought was interesting before you go into the demo from um twitch user, learner0418, they're always tuned in so I always appreciate them. They said it's. The original idea for the visual impaired, active.

B

um So it's your original idea. Still active kind of um I am rebuilding it, mostly because um there are some things with the previous one that I didn't like as much mostly. It was closed, Source, okay, um but it's being rebuilt and it's going to be open source in the sense that it's probably going to be moved to a separate like GitHub work and have hopefully a lot more Community around it. And again it's it's.

B

It started out as a thing for visually impaired on blind people, but apparently a lot of people use markdown, not just um developers, just journalists use it even people that is just tired of of well word and it's million keystrokes. You can basically write a huge nice professional written document in um without ever leaving your keyboard, like I've written many of my um School papers in in that in in what is essentially viscon concept demo and no one could tell the difference. The.

A

Interesting I had no clue that non-developers were using markdown, but that makes sense. Okay, let's um I'm, ready to if you're ready to move into the demo, because I'm excited to see how this platform works. Are you good at it I.

B

Have a few extra points I would like to to make just um um so a funny little story: tidbit was after I took over um My Pan knock and modernized it for python free which um that was that was back when, when that was the thing and still is but like back when, when everything had to uh drop python, 27 support, I I started on Python 3 and then I fell in love. With these badges uh you can have on your readme and I was like okay. Cool I want to show.

B

um Support like I want to show that version. Support, I, want to show test coverage and then I wanted to show okay, how many people actually use this because I figured okay? There must be someone else, but me that uses it, but I wasn't really trackable anywhere I. Funnily enough, a week later, it got a um an email from the package index. Saying hey your um your project is in the top one percent of most downloaded over a period of the last six months, so we have assigned it as a critical project.

B

It's like critical project, whoa one percent and then I was like okay. Let me look at that: the download thing it it sits somewhere around three to four and a half million per month.

A

That's amazing: oh my.

B

Gosh and that's that's one of the numbers I I used for um the the companies that I've applied for, say: hey I have a project, it's very popular all this I just said um because they really like numbers and like results. So that worked.

A

That's a good tip for anyone and you applying for a job right now: yeah, recruiters and managers. They want to know the percentage they're like okay, you made this, but who is it impacting like how how are people leveraging it? So that's that's a good tip! Thank you. I. Also, that's crazy, like that. Your project has that many downloads yeah.

B

I I got really um I was really surprised, like is this old time and then I looked into the API, which you know. This is like a period of three months, wow so yeah um that that took me back a bit and then people kept asking for bundling pandok with with pipe handles. I find real, Mickey, separate package from that, which also has seen moderate traction um like. If, if you are in an environment where you're not allowed to install anything that there's many for people said hey, we need.

B

We need paylock, bundled into this um so and that as soon as I hit meet that that also got a huge boom in and downloads, because apparently there's a lot of people that can't just install stuff in their systems.

A

Yeah interesting I didn't even think of that that, as an additional use case.

A

Yep cool and we can um sorry and I know you said you had a couple things to say before the demo was.

B

A

The only thing, okay.

B

I think I think that's the only thing then yeah.

A

I shared your screen, so we're ready.

B

Okay, so um what you see here is a simple python code that takes in the um markdown string. This string can come from anywhere. It can come from well a web request from scraping it can come from literally anywhere.

B

It doesn't even have to be um like markdown, but this example I'm using markdown, but it could literally be any format both text or binary, like you, open a Word document or open a PDF or or yeah get HD scrape HTML from a website or something, but in this example, I've just gone with the very simple approach of using markdown and converting that to HTML, and then we have the conversion where we tell her to use the markdown text we have both in in pi pandok.

B

We have for converting from text which we're using here we can convert from a file where Panda takes, like the all the heavy lifting of opening the file verifying the format.

B

um So you don't even have to specify what format it is. If you use, if you convert a file, it will just know it from the extension um and we tell the format that we want it to be marked.

B

The strict version of markdown, but with automatic automatic identifiers- and this is how you can Define your very own- very specific use, uh flavor of markdown, um whereas right now we're using the most strict version, but with auto identifiers and headers, which means you can link to them or style them in um in like external style sheets or so on, which again pipe handdog also supports, um and then we print the result just as an a test, and that would be it wow. This is what you would get um when you convert.

B

You will get a the exact same, but in the HTML form, and a notable except most of most of these. All of these parameters can be found on, like the Upstream Pion dock um guide, with the map one to one to what pi pandok does um so.

B

The reason why we don't get a full document here is because we didn't tell it to, but that's again, if just one of the many other flags we can put into Pi Panda to tell hey, we want a standard and we want a full document, not just the HTML snippet and hey.

B

If you want to include these images and these style sheets or it even works on untrusted input like if you let's say, you're, making it with a CMS system- and you want to utilize pipan doc- to convert between the what the user is writing in markdown and what the viewer sees, which is HTML, um you can say hey. We we want to convert, convert this text, but we want to sandbox it. So they can't um access files on our system or do something else with it.

B

So sandbox, that's in it only you can only access the images or style sheets that's predefined, by the template, which again all of these can be set in in pipan Dot.

B

And there's just some of the the flavors that that pipe handling and pan dogs and Port Styles box, all the major ones, common Mark, the normal markdown BHP, githubs, flavored, markdown multi-mark down and a bunch of extensions to customize them, which we saw on the previous slide. You can either do a plus assigned to enable an extension or even more cool I, think is a minus sign to disable it. So you can say: Okay I want github's flavored markdown, but with without this single irritating feature that I don't like personally.

B

And that means that when you write your um your massive feces in in markdown, you can use it tailored to just how you like to write it, and you know that the end result is going to look beautiful.

A

This is awesome I if I could Echo learner0418 they set any format to other DOC format is very, very versatile. I'm, like I'm I'm, wondering also like how they said, like the word to PowerPoint. That must be difficult to to work with I'm thinking. Oh.

B

um Yes, so so, basically, what pipe handbook does um is?

B

Beware, pie and dog verifies the the files that you give it before it even tries to convert them, say: hey, there's um you're telling me it should be at a Word document, but this doesn't look like a Word document um and so on and so forth, and then reconstruct the underlying very, very long and convoluted command to pandok, and we we send it to pandok, which can either be bundled into pipan doc. So you don't even have to install it yourself or you can provide your own and say: hey paying dog is over here.

B

This specific version is over here um and we get that we get like a result back which again either is a file or an error or the converted text all depending on what are you what you use in pipndoc and all of that is then taken and convert it into something that you can. Actually, you know try to try and accept. So you can like do a sophisticated error handling. You can there's like full locking support where it will print the the errors to the like standard python, logging, module and yeah.

A

That's awesome and.

B

Yes, um I remember: there was a question about PDF, so that's what I wanted to get to in the kind of like the demo, because I knew I kind of knew. These would come up because PDF is very popular.

B

um So, yes, I've been here, it's like you can do PDFs, um but with a latex engine, but you need to get that from somewhere and I personally had the same issue. I just want the smallest attack engine that still works, so I found an open source, one called tiny attacks or TX, which I wanted to use one python. So I made pie, tiny texts or tiny TX.

B

It's still there's completely sure how you're supposed to pronounce that um but yeah so pie, pan dog and Pie tiny TX works perfectly in in Tangent to give you that full PDF support without you having to do anything else except install a new package, um yeah and yeah, there's again over 50 formats that you can choose to convert in between, um but yeah kind of the middle ground.

B

A middleman is kind of it's marked down, so you get from one format into markdown um typically, and you write something in markdown, you convert it either back to the same format or to another format, but you can also just do HTML to word or some something. Similarly, it doesn't matter doesn't have to be involved. It's just the common common format for for editing, so you don't even have to leave your keyboard um and there's a little surprise.

B

Is this this slideshow that I prepared, partly for the demo and and also for my own personal notes, was made just by writing. Writing my writing markdown and then just feeding it to pipe hand Dock and tell it. Tell hey, convert this to a PowerPoint slideshow. Please wait.

A

So you made this with pie: pan dog.

B

Yes, I made this with pie, pan dog and then I opened it in Microsoft PowerPoint. That's.

A

Crazy, just click and.

B

Just click press, uh like start DS, show.

A

Wow, okay, I'm impressed even more I, was already impressed because I was like this. This project sounds hot, like complex for the maintainer, but on the the user side it's it sounds so simple right, like you, showed a couple of lines of code and then you you came up with like oh I, actually use this to build this. Yes,.

B

Yes, um even though this is very simple, but you could I could have included images, I could have included videos and, um like all the full, all the things that um PowerPoint has available. I could have included by just writing markdown and then telling pipe hand doc to convert it. But oh well, I didn't need to so.

A

Awesome we already had people wait. First of all, someone says she's a ninja or I. Guess to you, I, don't know very practical. Yes, super awesome. I know some people said they wanted to be able to contribute. So I put a link to I I, can't post the link in the in the chat y'all, because um we've disabled, that for GitHub but I put a link on the screen. It says https um and then colon, slash, github.com, Jessica, tegner, slash pie, Panda pie, pan doc so like.

A

If you all wanted to contribute, that's the repository, you should look for I'm. Actually curious, as you were talking, I was like how do you keep up with the changes that pandok makes so that you can like? Have it convert over to pie, pandok.

B

um Yeah so yeah. First of all, thank you. Thank you. Everyone um also just search for um pie, pan dog on Google, and it comes up either on on the package index or on GitHub, it's very easy to find um and as uh that's how to keep up with it right now.

B

I'm just subscribed to um the pandark repository, um but I am working on a GitHub action that will automatically at least take it and build a new snapshot version um so like download the newest release of pandog and then use that to run all the testing, because we have like 99 test coverage um and and basically make a new snapshot built, because that's that's what it does anyway right now when when we, um when we push anything to it, it just downloads, uh like the latest version of pandok intricate into like every GitHub runner on Under, the Sun and just runs all the testing and stuff.

B

That's that I'm working on automating fully so I don't have to touch it and it just runs on every like pan dog python version between like free, six and 311, on both Linux and mac and windows and then again conditionally.

B

If it's just a normal push or pull request, it makes a snapshot build or if it's a tax commit, it makes a a Like official quote-unquote release to the index. So that's that is when I'm working on automatic, wow I don't know. If that makes sense. No.

A

That made a lot of sense. I actually think. That's like a really good use case of GitHub actions, because yeah rather than like that's the whole point of GitHub actions to automate things that are happening in your repository and rather than you like double checking each time. Okay, like here's, what's what's changed, let me add that in like give action to just grab the snapshot for you. That's that's.

B

Yeah, it crafts a snapshot and then it runs the test and then it gives me a detailed report of what broke if anything and then, if it, if nothing broke, it just makes a an automatic latest test build if you will um on like GitHub releases and I yeah I love, GitHub actions, I automate everything. Even if people go to my GitHub repository on, like my GitHub profile itself, that itself is automated by GitHub actions. It has the latest like 10 things that I'm like either.

B

You know I've been in like either um like like closed, pull, requests or comment on an issue or um so on and so forth, and that's all also all done by GitHub actions just doing it. It's automation, magic which I love.

A

Yeah, no I noticed that actually, when um I asked like who wanted to be on open source, Friday and then you're like me, I went to your GitHub and I was like oh cool Jessica. Put like like a little automated thing. It's like last merge this commit to this repository. I, also think that might be like a good tip for for students um or or people looking for a job, whether you're, like a traditional college student or like a boot camper.

A

If you want people to see like why you should get hired and and the the work that you've been putting in, it might be a great idea for your readme to reflect like for you to use a GitHub action in your readme um to reflect the the latest changes and commits that you did. That way, it's easy for a recruiter or hiring manager or whatever to be like okay, there's. This is the work that they're currently doing.

B

Yes, because that that's one of the earliest tip I, probably got from um the open source community in general, is people said: GitHub is the LinkedIn from for developers. So yeah recruiter might look at your LinkedIn, but the technical manager. That's going to interview you if he has the option between LinkedIn and GitHub.

B

You bet he'll, probably 9 out of 10 times, go to GitHub and I know this, because this is one of the first things that people like recruiters from when I've been like at interviews had like Microsoft their talks at Microsoft in the past or Ubers. Like that's one of their first things, they tell me like wow, you're, you're, doing a lot of GitHub stuff right. People think yeah.

A

That is very, very awesome. Actually somebody asked if they could see it. Are you okay, if I share the screen of it or should I just put the link? um What are we sharing? uh They wanted to see a readme of like the the automated things that you put in. Oh.

B

Yeah like if I mean everyone can see it so yeah, you can share your screen and go to the GitHub actions or GitHub like my GitHub, and go to the actions. Tab. Okay, gonna.

A

Do that in a quick second Chrome tab, I know, someone just told me put the the link in the chat but y'all. It will come out as Asterix, um because GitHub limited that to reduce like spam um or people getting fished and stuff like that. So I can only put the link on the on the video, sorry y'all, all right so I'm at your readme and just so everyone can see. Here's like your recent activity, where you did like the different merges and clothes and all that.

A

So this is all automated y'all and then I think Jessica said: go to the actions. Tab, yeah.

B

Like go to pie, pandok and then go to the actions tab. Oh gotcha,.

A

Hold on pin dog actions.

B

All right and then here we have all the latest runs that's completed um and you can just if you go to the latest one yeah.

A

um Is docs fixed, typo.

B

Yeah now it's actually pull request. I got um after starting in the in the GitHub accelerator program, because that was that's a thing um so yeah. If, if we see there's a long graph of all these test, Runners while running uh running on a matrix of os's and python, builds and then if all of them are successful, it goes on to the building stage, where it actually packages both Pi uh pipan, Dock and Pi. Pandok binary, which python dog is just the python code.

B

No pantok and Pi pandok binary is with and included um with an included pan dog there's like two they're two separate registered projects on the on the package index, but they're just the same here, because it's here's the same code base. It's just the dependency of pan dog, that's future trapped in and then all depending on on. If we are on.

A

B

Branch or the main branch, um and if this commit that has been pushed, has a tack of a specific um like pattern like V 1.0 vs, like did you did you did it like?

B

um It either builds a snapshot for just the latest. It's what's called publish your latest um which ran in this instance because it was an attack commit, but if it is attack commitment it will skip the public publish latest and it will do publish like release and it will build.

B

um It will take the build snapshots from the previous from the Builder step and it will publish them to the package index.

A

Awesome, thank you for sharing that I know. It was like completely off script, but I thought it would be helpful to folks.

B

Yes, I I, definitely again, I I have studied and also almost want to say, I've studied, GitHub actions intensively because and I'm not just saying this, because I'm with you but generally I have used other tools where it's like I need to go to free for different websites, one for Mac one for Windows, one for Linux to just see the same results and if something breaks, but here I can just I can just put it all.

B

Under One Roof I can put the code, especially, but especially like all the os's I could ever want is in GitHub actions. I, don't have to use two or three different, uh separate CI providers. I can just do all of it from one page using one config file, which is really really awesome. No.

A

I relate with you and I know. This is gonna, just like you said not because you're talking to me, it's gonna sound like I'm. Just saying this, because I work at GitHub, but prior prior to working at GitHub I was like okay. This is a place that you store code, that's cool, and then they came out with GitHub actions. Yes, changes, my entire life. It's.

B

Just like I I was like, is it just gonna, be another copy of what we've seen already and then I looked at the like how simple the config files were.

B

I was like this is I need to move piping dock away from what it had because it worked, but it was like when I had to change like when, as a great example is like when a new pipe, when a new uh python version came out and I want to test piping dog on the latest version, I had to change like three different, three or four different config files, multiple lines in each, but here I just go to the one line that defines the Matrix and I just say: hey um I also want python 312 when that comes out, and then when I committed it.

B

It just goes. Okay,.

A

B

Then it spins up for again for Windows and Linux and Mac as I've specified in all the existing versions and also the new version. I added and it's just one file one line, and then it just works. It's it's so simple. It just works and I love when stuff just works.

A

Yes me too, and it it feels it feels magical, even though it's not, we know, there's there's stuff going on behind the scenes, but it's just it feels like so easy to developer. Experience. um I wanted to I guess highlight comments that we saw. Someone was just talking about how they said pie. Tiny text is so cool. um They said they'd love to work on this amazing super excited.

A

I, guess somebody wrote this to um in response to when you were talking about like working on open source as a student, they said, I mean, learn, earn and return. I guess that's something. They know like a Liam I, don't know if.

B

That sounds like an idea, um but yeah on the whole, like both um bosha piping dog, which is kind of mature at this point, um I only really touch it when stuff breaks. So if people come with feature requests because it's pretty stable asses um after I update all the modernization, uh but Pi uh tiny text is definitely where I want to improve it, because right now it's just it's just hey I can download the thing from tiny text and use it in Python, but I want to do so much more with it.

B

I just never came back to it.

A

That that makes a a lot of sense um and I guess: oh what.

B

I'm just gonna say all of this to say, like contributions, always welcome both code and ideas and feature requests and issues, and all contributions are very welcome. On.

A

B

A

Definitely y'all come help with um improving or adding more functionality for pi to any text um with pipan Dot and I already put the the repo title up as well, and someone said, uh let me see if I just want to read this just to make sure uh uh I don't know if this is relevant, so never mind, um but I guess somebody was asking your thoughts on. What's the the best strategy to be a lifetime learner um as a developer, a.

B

Lifetime learner, yeah I, don't know um so lifetime learner. Like someone, that's always learning I, guess um that's a good! That's a very good question. um I want to say figure out how you learn the best for me and the few people I've had the privilege of explaining uh code 2 make a project. That's what I did um you might learn better from videos.

B

You might learn better from reading, but all of that like find a way that, like you, absorb information the best and then do something like that, because if you don't do something with it, you're going to forget it when you wake up the next day.

A

I love that advice, that's like a really great advice, I, agree and like I, think as as adults or like as we get out of like high school and middle school, it's up to us to figure out like how do we best absorb information? How does it start clicking for us and then I like what you said about like up applying it later, actually using it in a project, because it's so easy to to get away from us or for us to like forget afterwards? Somebody named Chris Renshaw asks: um how did you learn?

A

Github actions they've tried using it, but they're really struggling with it. Are there any tips on, like maybe tools you use.

B

So so, very quick to get back to the whole learning thing first um and then I actually saw we can go in and nerd out about GitHub actions.

B

um So learning the thing apply it as soon as possible, preferably immediately said with the like. As an example, the first thing I made in Python was a calculator sip with the python thingy sit with the python book or all the various like tutorials and then just apply it immediately.

B

That's what like just apply it as soon as possible, because the later that goes between you absorbing the information and you're applying it, the less the the higher chance they'll be of you for getting it again and have to do it all over again from the start. So it's also about like time, optimization ability to learn it correctly, the first time basically um which is possible um but yeah, GitHub actions.

B

We love it. We love get them actually. I love ghetto actions, um so I could get the give. The very easy answer of uh chat, DBT but chat. Dvt was around when I learned, YouTube actions, um I was I was very used to how the other providers did it. So I had a little preamp to it in the sense that I knew the yaml syntax that all the config files use um so that help like five percent, the the last bit was um figuring out. What I want to automate?

B

Do you like do all the steps uh manually and then looking through the GitHub documentation and especially the examples and and doing that, because GitHub either like as a first party or a third-party developer, has made actions that does that do anything? Because you can, you can tell it: okay, I want to install I, want to install Python and install my dependencies. Well, installing python they have the setup python like action, you can import into your own and just do it that way.

B

You don't have like it's very simple syntax, but I think the best would be examples um from the docs and then also stack overflow, just yeah.

A

Yeah I agree: oh good, sorry, yeah.

B

Like because again get up, action is very popular. You bound to uh that's. Also another thing: I've realized is like 99 of what I do. Someone else has already, maybe they're not doing the exact same thing as I did, but they have done. They have needed this ex specific arise. So they're probably done the same thing that I'm doing just in a different context. There's probably info about it. If you just Google it, that's like yeah,.

A

I agree because I think I think I think what you said of like figuring out what you want to automate, because I think that's how I first learned GitHub actions. My job gave me a task. I never used GitHub actions before but like we want to automate this thing and then, like you said, the GitHub Marketplace has a ton of options already built out um as of last November, which I'm I think it's changed now, there's 14 000 actions, so probably whatever you're thinking of automating, it already exists.

A

You can just like probably copy and paste that workflow in and figure out how like what I did is. I looked at I copied the workflow and then I was like okay, that's how they built out the action and here's how it is incorporated into the workflow and then in the future. I had my own things: I wanted to automate and I like wrote, an action from scratch and then also somebody in the chat. um Learner0418 said that GitHub skills um is actually a good way to learn.

A

Github actions and I just put the link here. It's github.com skills. They have a ton of different like like lessons I get interactive, interactive Labs of like how do you use different Tools in GitHub, including GitHub actions?

A

um We have 45 minutes left, but I wanted to Pivot into like more of your journey and stuff like that I know. Even before we we went live, we had a lot of like awesome conversations, so I don't want to like take away from that.

A

um The first is like what what challenges have you um experienced encountered as a maintainer or even as a student, adminating yeah.

B

The list is, the list is very, very long, um there's all from I'm going to start very specific and then try to go out to a broader, probably more relatable, um okay kind of kind of angle, so the very specific ones are documentations that are only visual um because um it I again I I made tools for um the blind visual impaired, because I am fully blind myself.

B

um So when I try to use a library- and it's like in- do this and then they're like image.

A

B

A

B

Am I supposed to do um or it's like many of the times it's like I have I, have filled out an issue where I followed their template with, like the exact steps and output, and they still insist hey. Can you send me a screenshot? It's like yes I. Could it's going to be extreme like a lot of work for me to hide like details? I, don't want you to see and don't want to be public on the internet, but it's like I.

B

Just I showed you everything you should need like I showed you, the the input and the output and the expected result, and it's like the world uh even in coding, which you would think is well code is, is all text right is very visual, um it being on like a talk recently where they said.

B

um Get things that are designed well designed. Well, stuff is good, I, don't know how to design stuff then, like okay, find a designer that can do it for you. Well, that's fine, but I can't verify if this Alliance or what image I have in my head yeah.

B

um So that's another thing.

B

Again, I could turn in this into a long rant about accessibility, um but.

A

I love these I love these so far because, like that's a good point, I didn't even realize. I also think I sent you an image in slack, so I apologize. Yes,.

B

I think you did yeah. You sent me in a an image of like your uh your calendar for today.

A

But, like that's a good point like well, a lot of us are like very, are very visual right and then it it creates this like this. This friction or this barrier for like people who may not be able to to visualize things. So it's like how do you? How do you meet that that.

B

And here's the fun here's like. What's me, what makes it even more frustrating is all the tools to make it accessible for people that can't see. Are there they're just not being utilized yeah.

A

B

And that's that's what that's? What makes it slightly go from slightly annoying to kind of infuriating yeah, um sometimes because all the tools are there, they just either don't know about them or don't care about them, um which you know that that's a thing um but yeah. That's that's the virtual!

B

um That's the whole virtual thing, then, there's also going to conferences, um making it easy for people that can't drive to get to the conference I'm, not even talking necessarily about people with disabilities, just people that don't have a card.

A

Yeah, that's a fearful.

B

Don't put put it in the middle of nowhere where there's no buses or trains or something that's nearby, that's really inconvenient, not just for um for people with disabilities, like many of of the like things we take for granted was made initially because of people with disability wanted something like exact as an example. The the curves you see at sidewalks. Do you know why they were originally minded?

B

No tell me so originally they ever invented. Some people with wheelchairs could easily you know, cross the street right.

A

Oh okay, I did not know that.

B

But you know who else they ended up benefiting.

A

I guess not like regular I'm, not regular pedestrian people that walk I, don't know. What's.

B

Going on so so they obviously they they benefited the people in wheelchairs yeah. They also benefited people with strollers, with.

A

Suitcases yeah like.

B

It benefited people that didn't have a disability necessarily, but they had other reasons why that thing was a good idea.

A

I see what you're saying I get what you're saying like you're saying. Even the thing. Sorry at first I was like I, don't know what you mean, but even the even the things that people asked for for accessibility reasons ended up um benefiting able-bodied people, because able-bodied people have different things like you just said, like they have a baby that they need to take and I've I've. Also I've I have pushed the stroller and it's hard to push it up. uh When there's like no slope on.

B

A

So I completely understand that that's that's a really good point. I didn't think about and I do think. I, don't know, I agree with you in terms of like in the tech industry. I, don't know if it's like an ignorance thing or a lack of Education thing, but we don't always use that the the accessibility tools that that are given to us.

B

Oh no, it's also because many many places in Tech, like um it moves so fast and accessibility, is kind of and after thought, right, yeah.

A

That's true, but we need to make it like a it needs to be part of everything like everyone's always pushing testing like that needs to be part of the software development life cycle. Like is this. Is this what component that you built or whatever accessible as well yeah.

B

Because again, there is like especially for the web um for the web, there's like automated tools at this point that can help with accessibility testing, specifically for the desktops there's like free screen readers free, like magnifier stuff, you can, you can do that's totally free. The only thing it obviously costs is time and it's much easier to build something, that's accessible from the start than it is to try to kind of kind of shoehorn it in there after fall. It takes much more time because you have to rewrite a lot of things anyway,.

A

Definitely and then I was also thinking that maybe sometimes people are like. Oh well like this doesn't apply to me, but eventually, as we all grow older, our our vision starts to decrease So. Eventually, we are going to probably need screen readers or magnifiers and stuff like that. So in the end you are benefiting yourself and and future and your future future self yeah.

B

And again, I'm gonna come with probably a very shocking number. um It's estimated that across the world around a little under a billion people live with some with something less than 20 20 Vision, but.

A

B

Lot of people yeah, that's a lot of people like we talk like a lot of 100 million, if not like up to a billion I haven't seen like the latest numbers, but we're talking like anywhere from fully blind to legally blind to like anyone that just doesn't live with 2020 wishing. That's a lot of people yeah.

A

That's mad people, like that's crazy, I'll I'll highlight some stuff. um Some comments. Somebody said cool to learn here, like I I, completely agree like I, didn't I, didn't even think about the sidewalk thing before someone said using alt text, at least as the the docs maintainers is important. Someone said, accessibility and inclusive inclusivity matters, that's awesome and they said one of my reasons to get into Tech was accessibility as well. Yes,.

B

That's awesome, um yeah, so again, uh there's a lot of times. I get the chance to speak about um accessibility and I. I love talking about it because it benefits me directly and a lot of other people, um but especially when I talk to um you know: geeky people, I love talking about Automation and back-end, and and that's why I like well, GitHub actions have kind of become my little little baby, baby, Tech child and I love talking about it. I mean every time.

B

One of my testers come to me and ask me something: I'll give them a 30-minute rant on GitHub actions and why it is uh why you should just use it um and I yeah I know I've been thinking about doing everything from like, maybe like talks or tutorials, or something about it, because yeah I feel like I, have a pretty good grasp on making it do what you want in a simple way. So I don't know yeah.

A

You definitely should I think I think there's there's a mix of people who who use GitHub actions or or want to use GitHub actions at least I've found. There's people who are like I want to use it if I'm not sure where to start or there's people that are like I've used it to some extent, but I don't know how to like improve upon it like how to make it faster and stuff like that.

A

So I definitely think those type of conversations would be much welcomed at at conferences and then also on inclusivity, because that's something we need to wake our industry up to more. Yes,.

B

I totally agree on both accounts.

A

All right wait about five more minutes left um I guess we already did we talked about like what are your thoughts in improving? Well did we do you feel, like you, covered your thoughts on improving uh diversity and inclusion and open source, or did you want to dive more into that.

B

um I I wanna, I wanna um I, want to kind of just highlight an experience. I had yeah um whereas- um and this is all like people can see, pictures and stuff from it on my Twitter.

B

If they want to I last year, got invited to Uber as a participant for the she plus plus event, which was a um cool event for girls in Tech, but this can be applied for just literally any quote-unquote minority group, any specific scope, um but it was nice seeing a company not just doing it for the pr or for the public uh like Cloud they would get for, but for actually because they've realized that when you get people that are not in the stereotypical uh like range, you get as diverse ideas like it's a there's, a direct correlation between having on the like professional side, having a diverse Workforce and also having a more diverse, diverse and Innovative product um on that side, and that also goes again for conferences.

B

If the more diverse of a talk like panel, you have or a list of uh speakers, you have the more diverse the talks are going to be. It's not just going to be the same story of like the same. Like almost the same story. It's going to be very the more diverse and more inclusive. You are in the in a conference. The more diverse the stories that your participants um or the audience are going to hear will be that much like much. That range will be much bigger, which also you know includes in totally good.

B

Like goes back and just benefits, everyone benefits um the audience because they get a great um story, maybe something they had never thought about, and it benefits the speaker because everyone gets a chance to have a voice and it benefits. You know the company or the like conference holders, because people, both the speaker, will have a fantastic experience and the especially the audience will say wow. These people from this conference had such a fantastic story, so it just benefits everyone all around. There's, there's just good things to learn: yeah.

A

Totally someone in the comments agrees with you. They said you get a fresh. You get fresher perspectives for all and I completely agree, because sometimes, if you, if you end up hiring all the all these similar types of people like they come from the same area, they're they're all the same gender, they all have very similar experiences they're going to build a product or feature that's limited to that perspective. But if you bring in other people they're like wait, did you think about this? How this would affect this type of person and you're?

A

Like oh wait, you know like I need to um I need to to to like edit that or resolve that for that yeah.

B

Yeah and also um the whole I've seen a couple of conferences because I've been looking around for um places to start doing, public speaking where they Market themselves, as being like diverse and inclusive, on the front which it's it's good, but that's going to come. Naturally, if you just actually do it because you want to and not just because you want the badge, the social Badge of hey, look at us, we're inclusive!

B

If you actually are people like it's going to spread both that yes at this conference, there's all these like cool stories and cool people, and then people is going to know your company or your product or your conference as this is the conference where all the people of all the backgrounds come to, so the pr will kind of come after yeah and it will be much more powerful than if you say it up front hey. We are inclusive and diverse, but when it actually comes to it, it's still a 90-10 split or.

A

Yeah I agree with you. There are a lot of conferences and companies just because they have one white woman speaking or one black man they're like we are diverse and inclusive, and that um um there's one conference and I've seen in the comment I spoke at this conference. I thought it was actually um a good, a good example of being more inclusive. They had a sign language interpreter there at react, my in Miami. That way, like you know, people who are tuning in, but they um they need ASL to be able to understand.

A

What's going on like I thought that was awesome. That was a good example. We reached the hour mark I didn't even realize how fast we reached it, but I know I even.

B

A

Too, this was a great conversation, um I think everybody's, just like soaking up the knowledge from you, because you have a lot of like wisdom, even though you're you're, like a student or whatever you know, um but I just wanted to wrap up, go ahead. Sorry I.

B

Was gonna, say yeah if you want, you can put my website right on the on the screen. If, if people want to follow what I do- and you know maybe again advise me on like good, like conferences to get to again I'm in Denmark, all of the cool conferences seem to be like all the people and I want to meet this in America. So that's that's a thing, but yeah people are so I like want to hear what I have to say. I want to follow my journey and come along for the ride.

B

Then they could check out my website.

A

Yes, definitely and maybe I'll share a couple of conferences with you, because so far I've been going to like one conf at least one conference a month, so I'll try to I'll try to look out for inclusive um ones to send towards you. I did want to. If you still have time, I have like the non-technical questions where I ask people, oh yeah, I have all I have all the time in the world awesome. Okay. My first question is: what is the first programming language you learned.

B

The first programming language, I Learned, was probably a split between Java and PHP for uh Java for making Minecraft server, plugins and PHP for making a website for set Minecraft server.

A

I love it, and this is when you I think on your website. You said you were like 10 or 12 years old or something when you learned.

B

Yes, awesome wow, impressive and I'm I'm 23. Now for a comparison, that's again public info, so yeah I've been I've, been doing Tech stuff for 10 13 years now, wow.

A

B

Paper on the paper I'm a student but I feel in my humble opinion, like I, have I picked up a few good, get good practices over the years. Yeah.

A

You're more like you're, more like senior developer rather than and then, if money wasn't an issue, how would you ideally spend your time whether it's job-wise or not, job-wise, like I, don't know.

B

I would probably travel I would travel around the world speaking at all the cool conferences that I can't go to right now, because I either am supposed to pretend like I'm, studying or through an internship or again all of these I'm very grateful for, but I would love to just see. Oh there's a there's just been pycon and somewhere in America. Let me just go over there because I want to be in pycon I, don't care where it is in the world. I just want to go to all the conferences so.

A

Yeah, if money.

B

Wasn't an issue uh both travel to see all my friends and go to conferences both as a participant and that's a speaker and also maybe as a um what's. It called like a um like.

A

Maintainer contributor.

B

Maintainer of the conference- oh.

A

That would be I'm I'm excited to see you at conferences, I think you would be amazing and I get it you're like I'm, ahead of the curve at this school thing like let's hurry this up, so I can start speaking at conferences. Somebody in the comments said that's awesome. I wish I started that young and uh in reference to you coding, since we were 10., um what's your dream open source project that you would like to create one day, I, don't know if it's paipan doc or you have a different one in mind.

B

hmm My dream, open source project, there's just I, have so many answers. um um I want to say, like on the on the more fluffy side. Definitely something with them with more community in it, because pie. Pandok is a very maintainer heavy thing where there's not a lot of community, so I think probably like a um like an updater framework, I've, always again, something that all I made something so updater Frameworks I've done I've already done.

B

One of those yeah I I want to do another one in another language, um but either like either back-end stuff that automates something or a an updater framework that automates something or something that automates something that people like and can we can build in community or that'll, be that'd, be cool. That's.

A

Awesome, especially since you you're getting really into or getting really passionate about automation. Lately. Okay, next question is: how do you say the word gif? Do you say GIF or gif.

B

Jeff he said Jeff.

A

You say Jeff, you said yeah, yes, another deaf person. It's.

B

Just a gift that sounds so uh speaking of someone that uses a like, robotic voice to to read to her all the time that sounds so so text to speak. English.

A

Yeah exactly um and then my last question is: what's your favorite Beyonce song, but if you don't like Beyonce, what's your favorite song.

B

See it it switches all the time, um but usually like a lot of the the fun like AI. Songs are really fun now, but if I had to like pick actual music, that I listen to like as an example by quoting uh it'd, be like punk rock slash Rock, so uh uh Jose Machine, Gun, Kelly, I, really I'm, really more into artists than more than uh uh specific song. So yeah holiday, Machine, Gun, Kelly, All, Time, Low, stuff.

A

B

That, like very Punk rock-esque um Punk rocks like Rocky, modern, modern stuff.

A

I, like that, honestly, like 15 year old me, was only listening to an all-time low and other similar bands, so yeah I'm here for that all right, so we've reached the we reached the end. um I want to remind people first, wait. First off I want to say thank you to Jessica for like give providing your time and then also providing all this wisdom around accessibility, like my my knowledge on it, is quite limited and I'm trying to learn more. So I really appreciated this conversation in general, because I'm like wow, like I'm learning.

A

So much also just saying yes to doing this pretty last minute. um I appreciate that and then also appreciate the the people who viewed this twitch stream, and they continue to be super engaged and ask questions and stuff like that. I want to remind y'all to check out here's a couple links that we talked about: jessicatechner.com, that's Jessica's website. If you want to book her for conferences and other things, as you can see, she's experienced, she has a lot of great like um thoughts on Automation and inclusivity and.

B

A lot of a lot of good things are coming very soon and the whole talks here you're one of an example this this is coming um but yeah like if you want to also again follow the my email lists on the front page. If you want to come along with my journey and see where, uh where in the world I'm stopping next, maybe you know, maybe it's your local conference who knows? Okay,.

A

B

Always wanted to say that.

A

Now your future of like conference speaking I, can tell it's bright you're about to be like a star um of course, and then, of course like um go. If you wanted to contribute There's the link to contribute github.com, Jessica tegner, slash Pi, pan doc, if you wanted to add more I, know um I think you mentioned you wanted to add more functionality for dang.

B

It tiny text, my tiny text, hi tiny text and.

A

B

Can find it on the pie? Paintbox uh repository, it's also, unlike my if you just go to my GitHub profile, but it's it's linked from the pie. Pan dog repository as well.

A

Perfect and then for folks that wanted to learn more about GitHub actions, because they were excited about how much Jessica was geeking out about them. I will suggest github.com skills. It does have like an interactive lab for you um is there any last thing you wanted to say before I close this out.

B

um Yeah, if you're passionate about either um automation or um like inclusivity and accessibility come talk to me, I can talk to you about it for way too long, um yeah and I I hope to hear from more from a lot of you at some point or, if not then speak, you know, have your conferences, I would love to have someone come up say: hey I saw you the first time on github's Twitch, slash youtube channel.

B

uh That I would love that that would be really fun um yeah thanks. So much for having me I I loved it, who knows maybe I can come back in five years and we can have a recap.

A

Course I mean you can come back in one year like whatever like, if you like, if you can chat, I'm down all right. Thank you. Everybody um and bye, bye. Everyone.

B