►
From YouTube: Book Club - Better Work Together - Meeting #2
Description
Discussion issue: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/book-clubs/issues/7
A
B
B
B
C
A
Certainly
assume
that,
like
having
the
structure
of
of
having
a
deliverable,
if
you
will
towards
reading,
whereas
these
are
the
sorts
of
things
I
would
I
would
I
know
that
I
would
enjoy
reading
and
learning
more
about,
but
without
the
structure
of
having
a
deadline
to
me
for
for
a
conversation,
I,
don't
know
that
I
would
do
that.
I
know
myself,
there's
there's
far
more
comic
books
like
I
should
be
reading
them.
A
E
Oh,
if
it's
a
go
round
I'd
like
to
oh,
is
it
as
everyone
already
gone
round?
E
Okay,
yeah,
I've,
actually
I'm
actually
really
keen
to
hear
folks.
Thoughts
on
this
and
I
want
to
hear
I
want
to
hear
because
I
was
in
in
spiral
for
so
many
years
and
I
kind
of
I
mean,
although
it's
always
changing
so
I
can't,
say,
I
know
in
spiral,
because
nobody
does
I
think
to
be
honest
and
I.
E
Think
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
I'd
like
to
see
is
how
we
can
apply,
find
some
of
the
general
things
that
I
know
to
other
places
that
I
think
it
would
be
beneficial
and
where
I
can
help
really
I
just
want
to
be
helpful,
but
the
other
one
is
I
want
to
see
how
how
other
people
see
how
in
spiral
works.
Answer,
questions
and
stuff
like
that,
but
also
be
I.
E
E
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
put
this
I
might
have
to
come
back
to
this,
but
thoughts
forming
in
my
mind.
That's
something
like
I
I
want
I
want
to
see
different
perspectives
on
in
spiral,
because
I
I
was
so
into
it,
and
I
want
to
see
how
it
could
be
done.
Maybe
differently
outside
of
that
norm.
So
I'm
really
open
to
other
perspectives
on
that,
especially
from
multinational
perspective
as
well,
because
I
mean
New
Zealand.
E
We
do
kind
of
things
kind
of
a
sort
of
a
Kiwi
way
and-
and
that's
that's
kind
of
in
spread
of
steeped
in
that
in
a
way
and
I'd
love
to
see
how
we
can
apply,
are
sort
of
how
in
spiral
can
be
done
in
maybe
different
cultural
contexts.
So
things
like
that
or
whatever
it
worked
for
different
kinds
of
people,
not
just
Kiwis.
So
for
me,
I'm
looking
for
lots
of
different
contexts,
because
I
think
it's
really
helpful.
E
Yeah,
so
so
I'm,
actually
not
from
New
Zealand
I,
don't
know
if
I've
mentioned
this
to
everyone
here
is
probably
relevant.
Is
that
I'm,
actually
Canadian
and
Joshua
is
actually
from
Australia,
so
though
he
came
to,
he
came
so
so.
We've
all
been
attracted
to
New,
Zealand
and
and
Kiwi
culture
in
a
deep
way.
I
think
there's
something
about
I
mean
to
me.
It
was
New.
E
E
A
I
mean
it
feels
a
little
bit
like
and
not
to
presume,
because
I
have
only
a
passing
acquaintance
with.
You
know
the
culture,
but
there
seems
to
be
my
impression,
has
always
been
more
of
a
stewardship
culture
around
things
and
that
came
through,
especially
in
the
first
few
essays
for
me
was
the
idea
of
in
spiral
there
there's
less
ownership,
meaning
less
control
and
like
having
this
having
the
legal
distributed.
E
Iii
want,
oh
sorry,
I
I
want
I
want
to
open
I,
don't
just
want
to
be
I
mean
I
I'm.
Okay,
with
answering
questions
in
that
I
want
to
make
sure
that
I'm
not
breaking
the
the
annual
just
because
I
know
that
I
might
have
a
little
bit
more
context
that
I
I
really
want
to
make
sure
that
I
it
doesn't
become
kind
of
a
dialogue.
Even
though
I
want
to
answer
your
questions
and
and
and
give
that
context.
So
I
just
want
to
sort
of
have
a
process
sort
of
question
here
around.
E
E
B
What
fear,
even
if
it's
dialogue
between
two
people
that
I'm
not
one
of
them,
is
still
beneficial?
Like
the
last
time,
I'd
say
childr,
you
were
definitely
like
on
the
pie
chart
of
discussion.
You
had
you
had
a
chart
there
and
like
unless
it's
uncomfortable
to
you
well
I'm,
happy
to
just
like
chip
in
when
I,
when
I
can
and
just
listen
and
soak
in
the
context.
D
D
D
I
did
think,
though
Charlie
when
you
mentioned
that
about
people
finding
a
place,
I
have
a
theory
in
general
that
if
you
choose
to
live
somewhere
like
if
you,
if
you
don't
stay
where
you're
from
but
you
choose
to
move
somewhere
else,
you
are
more
passionate
about
that
place
than
you
might
be
otherwise.
So
you
know
much
smaller
example
than
your
video
move
to
the
opposite
side
of
the
world,
I'm
from
England
and
I
live
in
Scotland
in
Edinburgh
and
like
I,
don't
yeah,
don't
don't
really
want
to
move
back
to
England.
D
Obviously
these
are
two
very
very
similar
countries,
but
I
think
because
of
the
you
know,
I've
lived
in
a
couple
of
places
and
because
I've
chosen
to
live
here,
I
feel
more
of
a
connection
to
it
than
I
would,
if
I,
just
sort
of
ended
up
living
back
where
I
grew
up
by
default.
So
obviously
that's
less
deep
than
the
whole
sort
of
cultural
conversation,
but
I
do
think.
It's
I
think
I've
noticed
with
people
as
well.
I.
E
E
There
and
and
I
mean
a
lot
of
people
come
here,
not
for
the
economy,
but
because
I
mean
to
be
honest,
the
economies
don't
so
good
I
mean
if
you're
in
tourism,
it's
okay,
I
guess
here
in
forestry,
it's
okay,
Kiwi
for
growing,
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
really
I
came
here
and
took
a
big
pay
cut
and
because
I
wanted
to
be
here
and
what
I
do
find
is
that
people
come
to
New
Zealand
because
they
want
to
be
here.
You
know
the
the
the
oh
yeah
and
that's
earning
property
speculation.
E
Then
that's,
okay,
so
we're
not
in
any
of
those
things.
But
we
came
here
because
we
we
came,
we
came
to
visit
and
we
absolutely
just
fell
in
love
with
it.
So
you're
right
in
that
I
know
people
who
have
lived
in
New,
Zealand
their
entire
lives
and
haven't
been
off
their
Island
or
something
and
just
at
or
outside
their
city,
and
and
that's
just
because
they're
like
oh
well.
This
is
just
my
life
and
that's
how
it
is
and
that's
fine
right.
E
So
some
people-
that's
just
they
don't
want
to
travel
and
that's
fine,
I
think
other
than
some
outlying
islands
and
I
think
there
are
two
two
peninsulas:
I
haven't
been
I
just
want
to
explore
this
whole
place,
and
so
you're
I
think
you're
right
on
that
that
it
does,
it
does
mean
that
you're
more
passionate
about
it
and
yeah,
so
it
I
think
that
is
a
phenomenon
that
definitely
happens.
Yeah.
C
I
mean
I,
think
kind
of
what
you
guys
are
describing
is
perhaps
a
stronger,
cohesive
or
the
strength
of
a
community
that
is,
that
there's
a
barrier
to
get
into
and
that
people
opt
to
go
through
that
barrier
to
get
into
that
community
as
opposed
to
you're
just
in
that
community,
because
that's
where
you
were
born
or
that's
the
default
community.
But
when
you
actively
go
through
steps
to
join
that
community,
you
know-
maybe
this
is
kind
of
a
question
of
debate
is:
is
that
community
inherently
stronger?
C
E
C
I
think
at
the
end
of
the
essay
or
something
they
were
talking
about
how
you
had
to
get
a
sponsor.
You
had
the
vote
again
and
it
sounded
like
that
was
in
response
to
like
hey
everyone.
You
know
cuz
like
if
it's
free
to
join,
and
you
know
like
there's
no
commitment
like
you
can
get
a
lot
of
people
they're
like
yeah
I'll.
C
Do
this
and
then
there's
there's
not
there's
not
any
cohesiveness,
because
it's
it's
basically
free
to
join
and
when
you
start
adding
some
of
those
costs
to
join,
then
people
start
really
evaluating
like
hey.
Do
I
want
to
go
through
the
voting
in
process
or
go
through
some
of
these
barriers
and
then
of
course,
once
you
do,
then
perhaps
you're
you're
more
committed
to
it.
I
mean
it's
like
gym
memberships.
C
The
reason
they
charge
you
that
initiation
is
to
get
you
in
there
and
so
that
you
don't
want
to
quit
right,
because
it's
like
I
already
paid
that
fee
I'm,
not
gonna,
quit
the
gym,
and
so
you
just
keep
paying
the
monthly
fee,
and
so
having
that
barrier
up
front
may
keep
people
in
a
community.
It
doesn't
necessarily
mean
they're
they're
effective,
but
it's
certainly
one
way
of
forming
that
community.
A
They
reminded
me
very
much
of
open
source,
open
source
community
and
how
how
we
operate
in
terms
of
our
relationship
to
the
product
so
that
we,
we
are
just
another
entity
in
relationship
to
the
product
like
that.
There
is
this
whole
like
cloud
and
cluster
of
people
around
it
who
use
it
and
that
I
found
that
that
personally
challenged
my
my
framing
of
what
we
do
and
how
do
how
to
relate
to
it.
I
mean
I,
haven't
thought
about
it
as
an
open-source
product.
A
B
B
Yeah,
like
the
idea,
was
crystallizing
over
over
years,
almost
to
to
figure
out
that,
like
the
the
Equality
can't
be
like
same
for
a
completely
everyone,
and
there
needs
to
be
the
different
appears
of
responsibilities
within
the
community.
I.
B
E
Just
I
just
wanted
to
quickly
state
that
when,
when
I
think
about
the
difference
between
get
lab
and
a
what
I
would
consider
a
traditional
company,
cuz
I,
don't
see
it
is
a
traditional
company.
It's
interesting
carry
because
I
could
see
it
as
an
exact
opposite,
even
though
the
structures
are
the
same
as
a
traditional
company
like
we've
got
a
board
and
we've
got
you
know,
managers
and
that
sort
of
thing
which
I've
never
worked
on
before
I
still
see
it
as
as
a
kind
of
in
spirally
looking
company,
because
it's
alright.
E
If
I
have
feedback
for
you
know
for
my
manager
or
for
my
managers
manager
or
for
the
you
know,
you
know
some
of
the
higher-ups
I
feel
that
there
there
are
they're,
not
higher-ups
in
that
power
sense,
but
in
the
responsibility
sense.
So
so
it
to
me
that
it
might
be
hierarchical,
but
it's
not
actually
one
that
makes
me
uncomfortable.
It's
it's
actually
quite
I'm,
still
getting
used
to
it.
Obviously,
but
I
still
see
it
as
quite
accessible
and
which
is
why
I
interestingly,
come
from
the
opposite
perspective,
as
Carrie.
A
Well,
that's
good!
It
would
be
boring
if
we
both
thought
the
same
right,
I,
guess,
I'm,
biased,
because
my
previous
work
made
me
previous
summer
experiences
that
Travis,
which
is
much
more
anarchist
collective
than
than
any
sort
of
thing.
I
mean
like
to
my
mind,
like
the
minute
I
have
an
okay
are
that
I
have
or
a
metric
that
I
have
to
try
to
meet
every
release.
I'm
like
oh,
this
is
this
is
a
traditional
company.
So
that's.
B
Yes,
sir,
so
I've
got
the
next
two
points
and
one
of
them
was
that
there
was
a
point
about
social
safety
net
being
a
neighbor
for
for
experimentation
and
I,
even
though,
like
maybe
it's
one
of
the
enablers,
but
in
check,
we
have
a
massive
in
Czech
Republic.
We've
got
massive
social
and
in
there
there
is
not
much
entrepreneurship
happening
around
here,
definitely
not
at
the
scale
as
it's
happening
in
a
good
and
english-speaking
countries.
So
yeah
I
found
it
interesting.
Yeah.
C
There's
kind
of
unrelated,
but
there's
a
interesting
TED
talk
about
that,
and
the
value
of
social
safety
nets
in
wealth
creation
and
entrepreneurship
and
I
can't
remember.
Maybe
it
was
Sweden
or
Denmark.
It
talks
about
the
wealth
creation.
That's
happened
in
some
of
these
northern
European
countries
that
are
very
socialistic
and
have
a
lot
of
social
safety
nets
and
comparing
that
to
the
states
where
people
are
like.
E
I
am
as
part
of
in
spiral
services.
Sometimes
we
hired
people,
and
it
really
was
it's
still
kind
of
a
contractor
thing,
but
I
mean
sometimes
I
would
tell
people
that,
yes,
we
were
going
to
at
least
have
you
for
20
hours
a
week,
going
forward
kind
of
thing,
and
that
was
you
know
so
because
we
had
that
power
to
do
that.
You
know
and
that
helped
people
with
demonstrating
stable
income
like,
for
example,
if
they
wanted
to
buy
a
house
or
something-
and
you
know
that
and
that
that
was
our
obligations
like
that.
E
But
I
mean
we
couldn't
devolve
her
things
like
health
insurance
or
something
I
mean
that
I
mean
it
was
because
the
state
offers
that
kind
of
thing
in
New
Zealand.
We
don't,
we
didn't
have
to
worry
about
any
of
it,
and
so
we
could
do
a
contractor
based
organization
and
we
could
offload
the
costs
onto
everyone,
and
then
people
cared
the
freedom
to
engage
or
not
whether
they,
whether
it
was
right
for
them,
like
some
people,
had
contracting
gigs
outside
of
in
spiral
and
so
two
days
a
week.
E
They
were
doing
in
spiral
gigs
and
three
days
a
week.
They
were
doing
some
other
gig
that
they
had
and
if
we
had
had
a
more
if
we,
if
we
had
to
do
it
more
formalized
in
that
we
had
to
do
sort
of
health
insurance
and
that
I
don't
think
it
would
have
been
possible.
So
that
is
that
is
another
thing.
The
social
safety
net
definitely
helps
I
mean.
B
And
yeah
the
next
thing
that
I
was
kind
of
finding
as
a
repeating
team
enough
thing.
I'll
find
it
in
the
rest
of
the
rest
of
the
book
in
the
remaining
essays
is
that
there
is
always
everyone's
eager
about
the
things
they
are
doing
and
no
one's
really
being
like,
for
example,
and
this
I
say
it
was
documentation
and
it
was
even
gathering
info
for
the
newsletter
and
that
I'm
curious
in
the
next
assessor
and
powersoft
that
issue
somebody
not
not
doing
the
admin
work.
E
B
E
Oh
so,
with
any
collective
or
any
group
any
organization,
you
always
have
admin
work.
It's
you
know
it's
one
of
those
things
where
when
again,
when
people
say
yourself,
organizing
group
it
it,
it
assumes
that
that
stuff
doesn't
happen.
It
just
kind
of
all
magically
happens
and
someone
is
always
doing
the
work
to
do
to
administer
things
and
logistics
and
that
with
so
when
with
services
we
had
to
sort
of
levels
of
that
we
had
services,
and
then
we
had
the
broader
in
spiral
Network.
So
those
are
kind
of
two
kind
of
thing.
E
Two
different
things:
Services
was
an
umbrella.
Oh
sorry
in
spiral
was
the
umbrella,
and
then
services
was
the
contracting
arm
under
that,
and
so
with
services
we
had
most
of
the
money
coming
into
services
because
it
was
all
the
contracting
that's
where
all
the
money
was
made,
and
so
I
mean
not
that
internal
didn't
make
any
money.
You've
had
money
with
other
gigs
or
whatever,
but
because
the
contracting
was
all
about
programming
and
IT
staff,
we
we
we
tended
to
bring
in
more.
E
I
ran
the
collaborative
budgeting
for
for
quite
a
while.
Actually
it
wasn't
developed
by
me,
but
I
did
help
to
move
around
that
moves.
The
process
along
and
iterate
on
it,
but
collaborative
managing
I'm.
Just
gonna
say
it
quickly,
I'm
just
in
case
it's
not
in
here.
I,
don't
know
if
it's
in
here,
but
does
anyone
know
if
they
talk
about
it?
E
E
Okay,
so
quickly
liberated
budgeting,
so
so
I
bring
I,
bring
some
money
in
from
a
client,
I
invoice.
The
client
the
client
pays
in
spiral,
services,
20
percent,
80
percent
of
that
arm
goes
to
me.
20
percent
of
that
goes
into
the
shade
pool
and
then
so
every
so.
Every
month
we
had
you
know:
everybody's
20
percent
is
kind
of
sitting
in
a
in
a
in
a
common
pool
and
of
that
20
percent.
Some
of
it
will
be
put
into
admin,
so
it
depended
on
how
much
of
in
one
literally
it
was
pretty
general.
E
It
was
quite
confident,
and
so
we
paid
a
person
and
we
had
a
person
doing
the
admitted
to
give
them
a
raise,
and
we
all
said
well,
this
is
you
know,
gonna,
have
less
money
to
spend
on
the
collaborative
budget
and
we're
all
here
with
us.
We
gave
her
a
raise
kind
of
thing,
so
it's
very
much
collaborative
in
that
form.
Now
that
20%
I'm
gonna
say
the
20%,
because
that's
the
pool
money,
so
that's
sitting
in
a
in
a
in
a
in
a
in
a
pool,
and
some
of
it
goes
to
admit
scon.
E
E
So
I
was
one
of
the
top
earners
pretty
consistently
for
because
I
was
a
senior
contractor
and
so
I
had
the
power
to
say.
I
think
that
bucket
should
just
be
full,
even
if
it
was
a
large
one.
So
that
was
that
was
pretty
fun
feeling
didn't
like
fill
you
up.
Fill
you
up,
fill
you
up
and
fill
you
up
kind
of
thing
so
that
that
was
a
really
good
feeling,
because
I
knew
I
was
helping
not
just
bringing
money
in
and
being
oh
yeah.
E
I
can
pick
off
my
mortgage
or
whatever,
but
it
was
a
feeling
of
I
can
I
see
what
people
want
to
work
on
and
they
have
to
convince
me
that
you
know
the
it
was
really
easy,
really
that
it
was
a
good
idea
for
me
to
work
on
and
for
me
to
fund.
So
they
would
say,
let's,
let's
buy
some
laptops
for
some
some
programming
students
in
Cambodia,
because
they
have
one
that
they
share,
so
we
should
buy
them
three
more,
and
so
that
was
a
bucket.
E
There
was
a
castrato
and
lived
in
Cambodia
for
a
while.
We
had
a.
We
have
different
buckets
for.
Let's
bring
this
person
over
so
that
they
can
give
a
talk
on
whatever,
and
that
was
a
bucket
or
let's
do
let's
sponsor
this:
let's
sponsor
a
rails,
girls
or
something
so
there's
all
kinds
of
different
buckets.
Some
of
them
were
very
small
and
somewhat
large,
and
so
so
because
it
was
a
dissensus
process,
so
I
just
put
my
money
wherever
I
want
and
then
the
some
of
it
is
what
matters
right.
E
E
Most
of
the
time,
the
administrator
found
it
annoying
to
bun
people,
because
people
just
have
these
shiny
rocks
and
they
just
wouldn't
forget
about
them
or
something
if
they
only
had
like
one
or
two
or
something,
but
generally
speaking
it
was.
It
was
a
very
enjoyable
process.
Yes,
I
think
it
was
probably
more
fun
if
you
had
more
rocks,
because
you
could
exact
more
change,
but
I
think
that's
just
the
nature
of
the
beast
and.
C
E
Correct
yeah,
and
also
some
people
with
part-time
and
some
people
were,
you
know
they
I
mean
software
is
a
lucrative
line
of
work,
so
some
folks
that
they
were
event
managers
or
if
they
were
something
else.
That
was
still
you
know,
good,
solid,
honest
work,
but
they
just
didn't
get
enough
dollar
or
didn't
get
and
didn't
get
as
much
in
terms
of
dollar
value.
Just
because
that's
what
not
not
that's
what
our
economy
does
not
value.
It
was
unfortunate,
so.
C
E
So
we've
had
that
conversation,
I
and
I
for
the
last
point
where
people
saying
I
should
be
able
to
to
bring
in
I
should
be
able
to
have
more
say,
I
I,
don't
think
I,
don't
know
if
that
ever
if
we,
if
we
had
that
conversation,
I
never
saw
it,
but
that's
not
to
say
that
didn't
happen.
E
It's
it's
one
of
those
things
where
I
think
people
just
kind
of
understood
that
that's
just
how
it
was
definitely
as
a
I
tried
to
fill
up
as
many
buckets
as
possible,
because
I
kind
of
liked
doing
that,
but
also
so
we
always
had
so
much
money,
it
kind
of
didn't
matter
all
the
buckets
got
funded
anyway.
Generally
speaking,
there
are
some
big
ones
or
ones
that
kind
of
people
were
like.
Okay,
that's
not,
maybe
not
so
important
if
we
had
a
debt
bucket
that
always
got
filled
up
really
fast.
E
So
if
someone
had
done
some
work
for
somebody
or
if
somebody
so
example,
buckets
are
like
if
somebody
had
done
some
work
and
the
client
didn't
pay
or
if
somebody
had
done
some
work
for
Inspiral
itself
and
in
spiral
itself
didn't
have
enough
money,
then
we
could
say:
let's
this,
this
person
did
a
whole
bunch
of
money
four
years
ago
and
they're
kind
of
still
waiting
for
it.
We
should
just
like
get
that
debt
out
of
the
way,
and
there
was
a
massive
debt
bucket
to
Joshua
and
people
just
every
month.
E
A
E
Yeah
and
I
can
have
I
can
put
whatever
bucket
I
wanted.
I
wanted.
I
could
have
that.
Charlie
is
awesome
bucket
that
has
$10,000
in
it
that
you
know
you
should
put
money
into
the
Charlie
is
awesome
bucket
and,
of
course,
nobody's
in
to
put
any
money
into
it,
not
because
they
don't
think
I'm
awesome,
but
videos.
That's
a
silly
bucket
and
like
laptops
for
kids
in
Cambodia
is
way
more
compelling.
F
A
E
A
We
manifest
this
here
at
good
lab
I
mean
most
of
most
my
experiences
of
my
or
my
visibility
into
our
product
planning
and
project
management.
It's
much
more
like
you
know
a
big
customer
ask
for
this
and
then
a
bunch
of
people
like
chimed
in
on
the
issue
and
eventually
it
gets
kind
of
scheduled-
and
you
know
like
I,
don't
necessarily
know
where
I
haven't
found
yet
in
my
time
here
yet
where,
where
to
put
my
own
lever
and
fulcrum
to
add
to
that,
but
but
is
that?
Is
that
part
of
what
we
do
here?
C
Hi
I
haven't
seen
any
heuristic
for
it,
so
I
mean
I,
don't
see
that,
as
like
product
managers
are
saying:
hey
based
on
the
number
of
up
votes
or
down
votes
on
an
issue
like
we're.
Gonna
work
on
that
I
think
that
was
kind
of
the
idea
right,
I
think
at
the
bottom
of
issue,
description,
there's
the
upvote
and
downvote,
and
you
can
look
at
issues
by
popularity,
but
I've
never
really
seen
that
implemented
right
like
because
in
a
purist
way,
you'd
say
okay,
what
are
the
issues
that
people
must
care
about?
C
C
So
so
I
guess
one
of
the
things
about
the
20%
I.
Don't
know
if
people
thought
about
it,
but
it
sounds
like
a
tax
right.
I
mean
it
sounds
like
a
flat
tax
of
like
hey,
everyone
works,
the
government's
gonna
take
20%
and
the
government
is
gonna,
give
you
roads
and
those
government's
gonna.
You
know
provide
some
of
these
basic
systems
that
you
need,
and
then
the
government
might
have
some
extra
money
and
we're
gonna
run
a
grant
program
and
you
can
apply
for
those
grants
for
your
for
your
particular
interest.
E
B
E
Okay,
so
so
there
was
people
did
say
this
feels
like
a
tax,
so
that
absolutely
that
conversation
did
come
up
and
the
the
way
in
which
we
addressed
that
what
I
say
we
is
like.
You
know
we
as
a
group
right
up.
One
person
says
hey:
this
feels
like
I'm
being
taxed.
You
know
I.
If
I
went
out
and
I
got
this
person,
this
client
and
I
and
I
did
the
services
for
them.
E
I
could
wake
me
I
could
wait
twenty
percent
more
money
if
I
just
didn't
tell
you
about
it
right,
and
so
the
big
thing
is:
what
are
you
getting
for
that
value
right
now?
On
top
of
that,
it's
not
twenty
percent.
That
I
mean,
if
you
wanted
to,
you
could
have
a
charlie,
is
awesome
bucket
and
then
just
put
you
know
all
the
money
that
your
twenty
percent
or
your
10%
after
into
that
bucket,
and
so
it
makes
no
difference.
There's
a
social
cost
of
doing
that.
E
There's
massive
social
class
to
having
your
own
bucket,
in
which
you
just
pay
yourself
for
no
reason
but
I
guess
if
people
wanted
to
do
that,
I
think
that
it
would
happen
and
because
it's
such
a
collaborative
system,
it
would
be
very
visible
and
I.
Don't
think
it
would
be
very
popular
and
again
there's
a
social
cost
to
that.
So
for
when
people
said
there
was,
there
was
a
couple
of
people
say
this
feels
a
little
bit
like
attacks.
E
What
am
I
getting
out
of
it
right
really,
what's
the
benefit
of
me
going
through
in
spinal
services
and
the
the
answer,
I
guess
was
collaboration
impact.
So
if
you
want
to
have
an
impact
on
on
buckets
and
like
buckets
that
people
are
talking
about
their
their
projects
and
you
can
have
an
impact
on
those
things
with
your
dollars
right,
that
I
mean
that's
pretty
big
for
some
people,
for
whom
I
mean
there
were
months,
I
will
be
totally
honest.
E
There
were
months
where
I
went
to
ten
percent,
a
ten
percent
contribution,
not
because
I
felt,
but
internal
wasn't
worth
it,
but
because
I
was
in
financial,
dire
straits.
At
the
time
and
I
was
like,
I
need
every
dollar,
and
this
is
the
equivalent
of
me
saying:
can
I
have
a
Charlie,
Bucket
and
I
asked?
May
I
do
this
and
everyone
said
yes,
given
your
situation
right
now.
E
Let's
let
Charlie
do
ten
percent
for
a
couple
of
months
and
then
I
was
that
twenty
percent-
after
that,
so
other
people
did
have
that
it
was
kind
of
a
some
people
did
it
and
because
we
allowed
it,
it
almost
made
it
so
that
people
were
like
well
I,
don't
have
a
lot
of
money,
so
I'd
like
to
go
down
to
5%
or
I'd
like
to
go
to
10%.
So
in
a
way
because
we
broke
that
rule,
it
meant
that
we
really
it
was.
It
meant
that
we
had
less,
but
was
it
less?
E
Would
it
have
been
less?
The
people
had
said
well,
I
can't
afford
to
go
through
and
Spyro
anymore
I'm
just
gonna
go
independent
and
then
they
lose
them
altogether.
So
allowing
people
to
go
a
little
bit
less
and
I
mean
from
a
from
a
process
perspective.
People
are
highly
trusted.
So
if
they
say,
I
need
to
go
less
because
reasons,
that's
okay,
but
because
they
shared
those
reasons
with
everyone
and
it
was,
and
there
was
a
consensus
around
it.
E
E
So
if
you're
a
contractor
going
alone,
you
really
are
by
yourself
right,
but
if,
because
you
you're
in
services-
yes
you're
you're,
giving
a
little
bit
of
your
money
away
every
month,
but
you're
getting
social
support
from
that,
and
so
there
were
times
when
I
needed
support
that
that
that
I
got
it
so
I
wouldn't
have
got
that
if
I
was
a
contractor
she's,
just
a
contractor
on
my
own
does.
Does
that
kind
of
I
mean
people
were
happy
with?
If
some
people
thought
it's
a
tax,
it's
too
much.
E
C
I
know
it
answers
your
question:
I
mean
I,
think
what
you
always
have
with
these
tax
systems
right
is
potentially
people
that
are
paying
a
lot
in
on
in
the
tax.
You
know,
people
that
are
paying
a
lot
say
well,
wait
a
second
I'm
not
getting
that
much
value
out
and
then
on
the
other
side
of
the
spectrum,
people
that
aren't
paying
in
a
lot
or
like
hey.
D
Charlie
I
don't
know
if
you've
actually
ever
lived
in
Wellington,
but
like
what
would
you
say,
like
the
percentage
of
people
who
work
in
sort
of
something
related
to
in
spiral
in
Wellington
who've
been
in
in
spiral
at
some
point,
is
like
not
necessarily
ran
in
spiral
now
but
have
been
through
in
spiral
at
some
point?
Is
it
quite
high
I'm
guessing?
It
is.
E
In
the
so-so
in
spiral
is,
is
I
think
that
it's
kind
of
like
Portland,
OR
Vancouver,
and
it's
one
of
these
places,
that's
very
progressive
and
the
I
see
that
the
the
tech
industry
is
a
bit
like
a
carousel
where
people
kind
of
go
to
different
companies
and
they
kind
of
go
around.
So
the
the
this
then
ends.
E
The
demand
for
tech
is
quite
high,
so
I
would
say
the
it
within
the
tech
community
and
also
the
kind
of
wider
when
I
say
wider
community
I'm,
not
talking
about
tech
at
its
friends,
I'm,
meaning
like
that,
the
community
of
Inspiral
has
you
know
it
has
accountants
and
it
has
lawyers
and
enhance
it
has
generalists,
and
it
has
all
kinds
of
different
people
and
all
walks
life,
but
mostly
tech
people,
so
I
would
say
in
the
tech
industry
that
that
number
would
be
quite
high.
I,
don't
know
what
percentage
it
would
be.
D
E
It
also,
depending
on
what
you're
working
on
so,
for
example,
because
in
Sparrow
services
mostly
did
Rails
and
node.
And
yes,
there
was
a
lot
of
sort
of
JavaScript
ecosystem,
folks
and
and
and
me
later,
on,
the
elixir
and
Phoenix
and
that,
but
mostly
rails,
actually
hilariously.
So
I
did
a
lot
of
rails
work
within
that.
So,
if
you
didn't,
if
you
did
say,
c-sharp
people
were
not
willing
or
we're
not
as
likely.
So
it
depends
on
what
what
take
you
in.
E
So
if
you
did
see
sharp,
for
example,
which
which
is
very
common
in
enterprise
New
Zealand
companies
like
I,
believe
trade
me,
which
is
like
eBay
but
New,
Zealand
or
Craigslist,
or
something
and
then
there's
also
0x,
ero
and
they're,
a
big
accounting
company,
it's
actually
spreading
over
the
world
and
they're
based
in
Wellington
as
well,
and
they
you
see,
shops.
So
there's
a
lot
of
scene
shop
based
companies,
but
we
didn't
have
a
lot
of
seed.
Shoppers
at
all,
so
I
would
think
it's
depending
on
which
techies.
A
C
F
F
E
Just
wanted
to
speak
to
your
point,
Seth
about
the
number
of
people
in
a
community,
so
Dunbar's
number
is
I,
don't
know
if
that's
a
familiar
concepts.
I
love
Dunbar's
number,
because
it's
the
number
of
relationships
you
can
kind
of
viably
maintain,
and
you
know
if
you
see
someone
with
you
know
ten.
You
know
thousand
Facebook
friends,
though
most
of
those
people
are
passing
acquaintances,
but
in
any
high
trust
network.
It's
going
to
be
limited
by
that
number
of
people
that
you
can
have
relationships
and
know.
Well,
so
it
will.
E
It
will
any
sort
of
high
trust
network
like
that
can't
be
scalable
as
an
entity.
It
has
to
split
off
into
sub
entities.
If
for
that
to
happen,
and
that's
kind
of
recent
in
spiral,
what's
kind
of
happened
to
things
called
pods,
so
people
have
what's
called
Livelihood
pods
now.
This
is
probably
they're
good.
Probably
gonna
talk
about
that
a
little
bit
later,
so
I
won't.
I
won't
go
into
that.
E
I'm
also
not
familiar
with
it
because
like
to
me,
its
internal
services
was
like
a
livelihood
pod
in
a
way,
but
it
found
it
sounded
like
livelihood
pods,
where
you
bring
in
some
income,
you
put
all
of
it
into
the
pool
and
then
it's
distributed
equally
to
people,
so
something
quite
radical
in
a
way.
Yeah.
C
I
think
that
Dunbar's
number
is
a
really
fascinating
and
what
interesting
to
me
is
like
gitlab,
basically
just
shot
right
through
that
number
very
fast
right,
and
so
there
was
gitlab
kind
of
like
the
original
gitlab
which
was
below
that
number
and
then
it's
just
like
boom,
and
you
know
just
to
try
to
anticipate
what
the
problems
are.
Since
we've
gone
through
that
number
and
I'm
sure
we're
gonna
see
some
of
the
effects
of
not
having
those
close
relationships
that
get
lab
you
know
of
three
years
ago
had
so.
E
To
me,
the
challenge
is:
how
can
we
have
you
know
behaviors
around
high
trust,
right,
so
collaboration
and
and
and
high
trust
and
and
that
sort
of
things
short
toes
stuff
like
that?
How
can
how
can
we
keep
those
high
those
benefits
of
having
a
high
trust
system
with
a
thousand
people
and
I
mean
I.
Think
that
that's
the
million-dollar
question
really,
and
certainly
what
keeps
me
here,
you
know
loving
gitlab.
E
F
And
yeah
this
is
just
a
minor
note
like
she
said
she
was
afraid
of
Charlie,
this
young
group
of
people,
because
she
was
already
over
40
or
something-
and
it's
just
reminded
me
when
I
try
and
keep
lip
I
was
surprised
how
many
people
we
have
like
the
over
40
or
50
and
I
think
that's
really
good
thing
about
it.
But
this
is
the
distribution,
so
I.
D
Do
find
it
really
interesting
because
I
just
interviewed
somebody
for
a
position
yet
lab,
and
they
were
talking
about
working
at
one
of
the
famous
big
tech
companies
which
I
won't
name,
because
obviously
I
was
just
interviewing
them
and
like
how
a
significant
portion
of
their
team
had
basically
just
joined
this
company
straight
out
of
college
because,
like
you
know
that
the
company
needs
to
hire
so
many
people
they
have
to,
like
you
know,
go
to
colleges
directly
and
I.
Think
you
definitely
get
different
cultures
depending
on
how
you
do
those
things
so
I
do.
E
It's
it's
I
think
it
does
have
a
have
an
impact,
though
I
think
that
it
wouldn't
stop
my
participation
but
I
do
know
some
people
who
have
seen
companies
like
they
wanted
to
work
at
a
tech
company,
for
example,
and
they
and
they
see
it,
and
you
know
they're
there
they're
quite
diverse
in
many
ways,
but
everybody's
in
their
twenties,
and
they
feel
quite
like
a
fish
out
of
water.
So
I
think
it's
it's
it's
nice
that
we
do
have
lots
of
all
the
people
as
well.
People
of
all
ages
and
ability
levels.
A
I
think
that's
a
I'm
this
a
little
bit
of
but
I
that
keeping
that
sort
of
spread
is
also
part
of
what
I'm
hoping
for
our
internship
program.
There
are
initial.
Our
initial
efforts
are
certainly
targeted
at
the
college
market,
but
I'd
like
to
see
us
do
more
diverse
late
entrants.
Later
people
who
are
coming
into
stem
later,
cetera.
E
You
know,
work
with
you
and
this
person
says
that
your
call,
so
we
chat
and
I
found
that
people
who
had
not
just
a
computer
science
degree
or,
like
you
know,
did
tech
from
a
young
age
or
whatever,
but
people
who
had
like
an
English
degree
or
they
worked
in
journalism
or
something
often
were
like
really
good
developers
because
they
had
that
communication
nail.
E
So
I'm
wondering
if,
if
that's
kind
of
what
folks
want
to
because
we're
talking
about
another
essay
here
and
I'm
wondering
if,
if
we
want
to
kind
of
wrap
it
up
here
and
go
on
to
the
next
push
the
things
to
the
next
meeting
or
if
we
want
to
continue
I,
haven't
read
these
further
essays
but
I'm
I'm
interested.
What
folks
want
to
do
now
considering
the
time
constraint
in
that.
D
I
think
there
were
a
couple
of
ways
we
can
run
this
so
like
one
is
to
just
sort
of
let
the
conversation
flow,
one
is
to
sort
of
you
know,
be
a
sort
of
more
traditional,
get
lab
meeting
where
we
stick
very
closely
to
an
agenda
that
sort
of
people
are
filled
in
advance.
I
think
those
are
the
two
most
effective
ways:
I
don't
have
a
strong
preference
for
which
way
we
do
it
by
I
feel
like
those
are
the
two
best
options
we
have
here.
B
D
Yeah,
so
so
one
someone
was
more
like
what
we're
doing
now,
where
we
sort
of
have
questions
in
an
agenda,
but
we
let
the
conversation
flow
fairly
freely
and
another
is
sort
of
where
the
facilitators
take
a
more
active
role
and
I
realized
as
I'm
saying
this,
that
I'm
not
technically
one
of
the
facilitators
but
I'm
doing
this
bit.
So
they
are
kind
of
stepping
up
so
to
see
if
it's
because
I,
because
I
ran
another
book
club
that
was
that
was
sort
of
a
thing
we
had
to
balance
like.
Do
we?
A
B
Really
enjoying
the
free-flowing
conversation
as
well,
but
it
is
my
bedtime.
I
wouldn't
like
to
this.
To
be
a
repeating
theme
like
we
need
to
finish.
Sir
Thomas
can
sleep
on
I'm
happy.
If
everyone
wants
to
stretch
another
10
20
minutes,
I'd
be
fine
with
that
I.
Don't
have
any
anything
scheduled
for
my
bed.
E
A
I
think
it's
really
interesting
together,
like
almost
like
a
second
voice,
underscoring
and
also
reflecting
some
of
the
things
that
are
in
the
essays
or
those
topics.
I
think
it
adds
some
depth
and
flavor,
even
if
even
if
you
are
simply
repeating
which
you
are
not,
it
just
adds
more
dimension
to
it.
Like
a
second
like.
E
You're
very
welcome
it's
my
pleasure
all
right.
So
I
guess
I!
Guess!
That's
it!
Then
I
don't
know
when
our
next
meeting
is
that
I
guess
we'll
sort
that
out
in
there
in
there
in
the
channel.