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A
B
A
B
A
A
All
right:
well,
we
had
a
good
lunch
a
few
weeks
ago
to
talk
about
what
went
well
and
what
could
been
better
on
these
searches.
Maybe
we
can
just
start
off
with
a
context.
Setting
question
said:
I
think
he
were
in
the
market
for
a
new
chief
people
officer.
Why
did
you
decide
to
use
an
exec
search
firm
for
the
search
and
what
were
the
factors
that
led
you
to
choosing
a
gentle
work
on
the
search
yeah.
E
So
we
normally
work
with
an
external
firm
for
these
searches.
We
don't
have
an
executive
recruiter
in-house.
We
are
recruiting
for
that,
and
I
found
that
executive
recruiting
is
very
different
from
normal,
recruiting.
There's
a
lot
more
context
around
the
role.
There's
a
lot
more
learning
during
the
search,
there's
a
lot
more
expectations
from
the
from
the
candidates
about
how
they're
approached
how
they're
taken
care
of
during
the
search.
E
E
You
did
your
homework
on
our
initial
calls,
which
is
a
good
sign
that
you'll
do
the
homework
later
on
and
highlight
how
you
and
the
firm
is
relatively
new.
You
were
up-and-coming
dad
you
weren't
doing
a
lot
of
searches.
At
the
same
time,
I
felt
we
would
get
the
appropriate
amount
of
attention
which
we
got.
A
Well,
we
appreciate
that
I
would
say
it's.
It
was
this
whole
team
that
worked
on
that
not
just
nice
is
definitely
a
team
effort,
and
we
are,
we
hope,
to
continue
with
that
idea
of
working
fewer
searches
and
working
them
working
them
well,.
A
Maybe
moving
on
what
what
we
have
some
ideas
and
what
we
think,
what
what
what
what
went
well
in
the
search
and
what
we
could
have
done
better
on
both
sides.
Perhaps
we
can
start
with
you,
though,
what
well,
let's
start
with
what
what
could
have
been
better?
What
what
didn't
go
well
on
the
search
yeah.
E
You
are
all
very
patient
with
each
other
patient
of
the
not
getting
frustrated
with
each
other
kind
of
patients,
not
going
very
slow
patience.
We
went
fast
but
being
open
to
suggestions
from
from
each
side
and
there's
always
this
calibration
that
happens
in
any
search
and
from
both
sides.
But
for
your
your
side,
it's
the
hardest,
open
to
kind
of
new
insights,
of
what
we're
looking
for
new
reasons
to
kind
of
wide
candidates
were
in
the
Fed
and
what
we
have
to
incorporate
in
future
searches.
E
E
A
Think
that
that
data
piece
is
fascinating
and
I
think
together
we
struggled
through
that
and
iterator
to
figure
out
what
does
that
even
really
mean,
and
how
do
we?
How
do
we
then
test
for
it
and
on
our
side
we
crowdsource,
we
sampled
about
a
hundred
different
people,
the
in
in
the
people
space
to
put
together
some
questions
on
what?
How
do
you
actually
test
for
that
and
then
I
think
that
was
pretty
helpful.
A
Think
on
our
side.
What
we
felt
one
of
the
things
that
went
really
well
was
a
very
structured
process
on
the
gait
lab
side
and
on
our
side
we
followed
the
process.
Things
went
well
if
we
deviated
without
being
purposeful
in
that
iteration,
then
maybe
sometimes
things
have
more
chance
to
go
wrong.
So
I
think
that
was
a
really
interesting
piece
and
and
you
referenced,
you
know
continuing
the
search
until
we
were
actually
done.
I'm
Kyle.
Maybe
you
can
speak
to
the
data
that
we
have
on
on
that
yeah.
B
Before
I
go
into
the
data,
just
I
think
a
couple
of
things
that
are
important
to
note
with
regards
to
what
went
well,
especially
from
our
firm
as
we're
developing
our
practices
and
constantly
taking
biga
to
get
lab
value
of
iteration.
You
know
the
piece
of
working
asynchronously
was
really
just
its
pragmatic.
You
know
to
be
on
our
weekly
sinks,
working
with
you
said,
and
the
team
and
to
have
you
and
the
entire
team
constantly
taking
notes
in
this
running
agenda
so
that,
when
we're
talking
to
candidates,
we
can
go
back
and
review.
B
B
Is
we
had
such
a
good
partnership
like
we
had
slack
set
up
and
slack
was
our
our
centerpiece
like
it
was
our
communication
platform
where
we
didn't
just
do
you
know,
candidate
submissions,
for
the
notes
like
we
were
doing
the
the
feedback,
documentation
and
the
transparency
that
came
from
having
that
central
source
of
communication
was
was
just
huge
because
now
we're
getting
everyone's
opinions,
everyone
is
now
taking
ownership
and
the
partner
in
that
search.
A
few
other
things
that
add
on
color,
with
regards
to
what
other
things
didn't
go
as
well.
B
The
to
do
with
a
system
process
when
it
came
to
the
internal
applicants,
I
get
loud
had
said.
I
know
you
kind
of
mentioned
it,
but
it
was
a
huge
thing
to
note
that
a
lot
of
really
great
we're
actually
applying
to
get
lab
for
this
role,
for
both
roles
and
and
working
with
a
retain
external
firm,
presents
a
specific
challenge
on
how
do
we
represent
gitlab
in
the
way
it's
meant
and
deserves
to
be
represented
and
still
be
a
part
of
that
internal
process.
B
So
I
think
that
took
some
time
and
bandwidth
as
well
now.
Finally,
to
answer
your
question
Michael
with
regards
to
some
within
that
tricks,
I
mean
you
know
the
chief
people
officer
search,
we
came
in
knowing
that
it
was
gonna,
take
a
while
I
think
sit
on
the
first
one
of
the
first
kickoffs
we
had
you
had
mentioned
like
this
may
take,
and-
and
this
is
just
what
we
were
going
to
be
heads
into
I-
think
even
there
was
some
research
done-
that
the
average
retained
searched
for
days.
Déplacement
is
about
123
days.
B
B
E
Know,
interviews
that
and
and
also
that
of
the
candidates,
because
it's
a
waste
of
time
for
them
to
if
we
can
figure
it
out
sooner
so
yeah
put
with
the
most
the
people
with
the
highest
reject
rate
up
front,
and
this
is
that's
me
also.
What's
really
great,
you
use
our
applicant
tracking
system,
not
sure
you
want
to
suffer
to
that
in
other
cases,
but
we're
really
grateful
that
we
could
run
this
search
like
any
other.
A
Know
that
allergy
does
exist
for
some
exactly
critters,
don't
want
to
mess
with
an
80s,
but
you
know
for
us:
it's
whatever's
gonna
be
most
effective
for
you,
as
a
client.
I
think
is
the
way
we
want
to.
We
want
to
partner
with
companies.
Well.
E
Yeah
we
never
slowed
down,
so
we
never,
we
never
kind
of
said.
Oh
we're
closer
to
some
Canada's.
Let's
stop
the
pipe
so
that
helped
we
got
lucky
so
so
you
can
also
have
bad
luck
and
it
just
takes
longer
and
it
was
a
really
good
close
process.
I
can
tell
you
how
good
it
is.
Our
chief
people
officer.
We
have
a
new
search
out
for
a
chief
of
staff.
She
insists
on
using
a
gentle
again
because
she
had
such
a
good
experience
with
you,
so
I
think
we
still
have
to
negotiate.
E
So
I
should
have
said
this,
but
I'm
hoping
to
using
other
firms.
If
you
have
a
high
quote
just
saying
that,
but
it
was
a
really
good
experience
for
her
fermer
her
side
as
well,
and,
of
course
that
also
helps
and
look
you
find
the
person
you
want,
but
they
still
have
to
work
when
I'm
work
at
your
company
and
feel
that
they're
treated
well.
A
Well,
that's
well
we'll
talk
about
that
one,
a
synchronously
and
figured
that
out,
but
that's
great,
to
hear
I
think
what
what
might
be
one
interesting
point
if
you're,
willing
and
able
to
share
sit,
is
there's
a
few
things
to
me
that
made
this
search
particularly
difficult
right.
There's
the
idea
of
remote
work
and
sort
of
everyone
wants
to
to
be
involved
in
the
future
of
that's
a
great
story,
but
maybe
not
everyone
is
used
to
to
working
that
way.
E
It
has
to
come
back
here.
The
data
oriented
Ness,
everyone
says
it,
but
there's
so
few
people
who
do
it
and
I
was
really
impressed
when
so
hated.
First,
we
end
up
hiring.
She
walks
us.
She
walk
me
to
like
all
the
different
indicator,
she's
looking
at,
to
make
sure
that
the
apartment
is
functioning,
there's
very
few
people
who
actually
have
that,
like
top
of
mind
who
drives
that
who
have
that
up-to-date
latest
data
and
and
don't
take
decisions
based
on
that.
E
And
then
I
think,
there's
also
with
your
lab
there's
a
values,
alignment
and
the
two
hardest
values
or
the
hardest
values
iteration.
So
we
also
want
to
see
examples
of
that
where
someone's
able
to
reduce
scope
and
ship
something
faster.
Another
tough
value
in
this
specific
case
is
transparency,
because
it's
not
a
natural
thing
to
people
up
so
much
of
what
they
do
is
confidential.
Did
they
try
to
make
everything
confidential
and
just
be
very
close
to
the
outside.
A
B
It
was
just
great
for
us
to
kind
of
be
able
to
to
adjust
accordingly
to
that
and
really
drive
home,
focusing
on
that
analytics
piece
and
I
think
one
other
thing
I
wanted
to
add
in
that
conversation
around
the
analytics
piece,
because,
as
a
firm,
we
were
challenged
with
regards
to.
How
do
we
screen
for
these
analytical
minds
and
something
that
really
helped
us
and
in
doing
so
was
was
crowdsourcing
and
I?
B
Think
it
just
also
speaks
to
like
they
get
lab
culture
in
terms
of
being
an
open
source
platform
is,
is
leveraging
who's
out
there
that
it
may
have
already
be
asking
these
questions,
and
so
you
know
we
reached
out
to
our
the
partners
at
venture
firms
that
were
connected
with
we
reach
out
to
thought,
leaders
and
people
that
are
doing
this
work
from
a
consulting
perspective
and
was
able
to
come
back
with
okay
like
if
a
people
leader
says
you
know,
the
quality
of
hire
is
one
of
their
metrics
they're.
Looking
at
okay.
C
Agreed
I
think
similarly
I
found
screening
for
iteration
to
be
difficult
at
first,
it's
quite
hard
to
figure
out
if
somebody
can
iterate
but
I
think
over
time
we
were
able
to
pick
up
on
certain
language
cues
when
people
started
talking
about
planning
for
a
year
ahead
versus
taking
incremental
steps.
Looking
at
data
to
make
changes,
I
think
that
was
really
fun
for
me
to
figure
out
how
to
screen
for.
B
So
said,
I
have
a
question
for
you
and
it's
relevant
to
another
search,
we're
doing
with
regards
to
another
remote
company
and
finding
that
some
of
the
people
that
are
going
through
the
process.
For
that
you
know
they
may
say,
like
the
remote
opportunities
exciting
because
of
what
it
opens
up
for
their
personal
life,
family
whatever
that
may
be.
But
when
it
comes.
B
E
So
remote
can
mean
many
things
and
we're
all
remote
and
not
having
an
HQ
and
I
think
that
makes
it
a
lot
easier
because
there's
only
one
way
of
working,
if
you
have
some
people
who
are
co-located
and
sent
people
or
not
it's
much
harder.
So
it's
an
executive
I'd
be
hesitant
to
come
into
a
company
remote
when
the
rest
of
the
executive
team
is
co-located,
I'd
feel
left
out
and
then,
if
you're
all
remote,
how
to
make
that
work,
I
think
making
things
asynchronous
is
key.
E
So
it
means
writing
things
down
means
having
kind
of
artifacts
where
everyone
can
contribute.
You
like
Google,
Docs
or
issues
in
the
app
or
things
like
that,
where
it's
a
thing
over
a
longer
time
span
where
people
can
contribute.
Ideas
are
really
important
things
to
making
a
synchronous
asynchronous
working.
You
have
lots
of
more
ideas,
Google
get
lamp
or
remote.
If
people
want
to
find
out
more
but
I
think
those
are
people
who
are
good
at
written
communication
and
good
at
concise
communication
tend
to
do
better.
B
E
D
A
We've
also
applied
a
lot
of
the
work
here,
particularly
the
way
we
worked
asynchronously
on
documents
to
what
the
rest
of
our
clients
and
we
find
that
anyone
sort
of
running
a
tech
company
right
now
in
a
series:
ABC,
that's
how
they
work
and
that's
how
they
want
to
work
when
they
appreciate
it.
So
that
learning
for
us
is
tremendous.
D
Yes,
so
on
that
point
said
you
mentioned,
you
know
that
that
our
team
really
kind
of
accommodated
and
and
felt
like
an
extension
of
your
team,
and
that
was
something
that
worked
well.
So,
if
you're
talking
to
some
of
your
CEO
or
found
our
friends,
you
know
who
do
you
think
would
be
the
right
fit
for
partnering
on
a
search
with
with
the
agenda
team.
D
E
Think
I
don't
think
you're
you're
set
out
to
work
with
all
remote
companies
and
I
hope
not
for
you,
because
there's
there's
a
few
of
them
running
a
lot
of
executive
searches
but
okay
I
think
it's
so
important
that
someone
I've
had
a
lot
of
other
recruiters
where
we
had
to
adapt
to
the
recruiter
instead
of
Isis,
and
you
know
and
I
started,
there's
there's
a
there's.
A
million
things
to
solve,
for
the
last
thing
you
want
is
exchanging
to
a
recruiter,
especially
if
you
work
with
multiple
recruiters
over
time.
So
I
just
think.
E
A
Did
that
reminds
of
how
you
just
described
that
the
we
sort
of
flex
to
to
accommodate
what
you
needed,
and
at
lunch
you
mentioned,
he
said
something
that
maybe
I'm
not
ashamed
of
and
extremely
proud
of
how
we've
decided
to
work.
You
said
I
think
that
it
felt
like
we
were
your
your
number.
We
were,
you
were
our
number
one
priority
get
lab
was
our
number
one
priority
and
you
could
feel
that
that
you
know
we
may
have.
A
A
E
E
So,
first
of
all,
look
we
have
the
weekly
calls
and
you
always
prepped
so
crap
on
that
call
making
sure
everything
is
in
the
dock.
Everything
that
could
have
been
done
beforehand
is
done,
making
sure
that's
followed
up
on
making
sure
he's.
Never
there's,
never
anything.
It
is
like.
Never
anything.
That's
too
much,
but
like
okay,
we're
one
1/2
months
in
lots
of
candidates
getting
getting
getting
getting
declined
because
of
data
centricity
you
could
have
concluded.
I
was
sitting
in
his
data
thing
he
would
go
again
and
that
the
big.
E
Go
for
that,
but
it's
sad
you
went
out.
You
collected
their
70
interview,
questions
like
that's,
that's
a
very
proactive
attitude
and
it's
it's
a
very
pragmatic
like
it
doesn't
in
the
end.
It's
it's
getting
assault
and
getting
the
right
making
sure
we
don't
waste
the
time
of
all
those
candidates
and
don't
waste
the
time
of
anybody
else.
So
it's
very
pragmatic
in
that
today,
but
I
do
think.
Like
suppose,
there's
a
call.
A
weekly
colons,
like
a
like
half
of
the
comments,
are
up
to
date
or
the
agenda
is
just
two
points.
E
A
And
and
I
think
one
of
the
reasons
you
know
most
of
my
career
has
been
on
on
the
client
side,
regulars
head
of
talent
or
or
an
executive
in
the
recruiting
function
and
I.
Think
one
thing
that
we
observed
and
as
Cody
was
setting
up
our
firm
took
note
of,
is
that
most
of
the
particular
very
large
executive
search
firms
they
have
accelerators
so
but
the
more
searchers
you
you
bill,
the
more
money
you
make
and
the
percentage
goes
up
so
you're
in
your
built-in
incentive
is
to
get
a
sell
as
many
searches
as
possible.
A
It
is
not
to
fill
those
searches
and
someone
who
spent
my
most
of
my
career
building
companies.
You
know
my
incentives,
oarsmen
I
I
have
to
build
the
company,
that's
my
job.
It's
a
mix.
I
are
not
to
not
to
make
more
engagements.
I
think
what
we're
consciously
trying
to
do
is
is
take
on
fewer
clients,
and
it
literally
means
we
make
less
money,
but
we
think
that's
the
right
way
to
build
a
good,
longer-term
business.
E
D
D
E
Was
clear
that
you
had
the
bandwidth,
so
I
felt,
like
I'm
unlikely
to
kind
of
push
it
so
far
that
we
go
from
a
good
experience
to
a
bad
experience
or
like
from
I?
Think
you
have
enough
time
to
you
really
having
too
little
time
so
there's
a
risk
of
having
a
bit
less
time,
but
there's
also
you
can
also
take
on
another
client
and
I
wouldn't
complain.
E
So
we
figured
that
this
was
the
right
thing
to
do
was
right
in
your
wheelhouse
and
we
got
that
done
that
one
done
as
well
very
quickly,
so
that
turned
out
okay.
But
that's
that's
another
advantage.
It
makes
it
easier
to
send
additional
business
because
you're
not
afraid
that
you'll
get
diluted
time
and.
A
You
know
the
the
VP
recruiting
took
three
months,
exactly
I
think
which
is
pretty
fast
in
the
current
market.
That
rule
is,
is
you
know
it's
very
sought?
After
and
again,
the
requirements
of
someone
who
could
do
it
at
very
very
large
scale
made
the
search
even
trickier,
but
two
things
made
it
great
one.
A
E
C
A
A
It
seems
like
both
of
these
roles,
but
either
one
the
both
the
chief
people
officer
and
the
VP
of
recruiting
were
so
critical.
As
you
approach
your
IPO
next
year,
right
and
I
say
that,
because
you
had
two
board
members
on
every
single
ketchup
call,
which
is
not
always
the
case
for
for
our
engagement,
so
tell
me
about
why
why
this
will
mean
both
of
us
are
so
critical
to
achieving
get
that
success.
Yeah.
E
So
they're
absolutely
essential
to
our
success.
They're
not
super
essential
to
us.
I
pee
on
I
do
and
there's
some
some
prep
work,
but
it's
just
another
financing
event
and
so
but
be
in
2023.
We
want
to
be
a
company
with
a
billion
dollars
in
revenue
and
to
get
there.
These
are
essential
rules
because
you
have
to
have
the
people
in
place
that
can
do
greater
to
job
and
I'm
motivated
to
do
the
job
so
recruiting,
retaining
and
making
people
effective
and
making
them
valuing
those
people
is
essential
to
the
success
of
the
company.
E
E
People
will
make
our
very
kid
and
we
just
calling
it
Human
Resources
like
if
you
refer
to
me
as
a
resource,
I'm
gonna,
be
out
the
door
really
quickly
because
I'm
not
I'm
a
person.
I
have
my
my
degree.
My
strengths
are
my
flaws,
my
hopes
and
my
dreams,
my
weaknesses
and
my
fears
and
as
a
company
I
want
you
to
not
only
to
try
I
want
to
feel
your
interest
when
you
hire
me.
E
There's
so
many
ways
to
get
dysfunctional
and
it's
so
easy,
I'm,
just
gonna
name,
something
like
we
want
a
more
gonna,
be
an
inclusive
company
with
a
diverse
set
of
people,
so
you
can
make
that
a
goal
in
you
can
set
recruitment
goals
like
we
want
more
gender
diversity
at
get
lab.
You
can
set
a
a
goal
like
X
percent
of
people
in
certain
roles
and
focuses
people
on
the
wrong
thing.
It
focuses
people
making
decisions
downstream.
All
the
decisions
should
be
upstream.
E
So
there's
a
lot
of
ways:
if
you're,
when
dealing
with
people,
you
can
reset
their
own
goals.
If
you
push
on
the
wrong
things,
it's
you
get
the
wrong
effects
so,
especially
in
these
functions.
It's
it's
very
important
to
to
do
to
have.
People
are
conscious
of
that
who
are
data-driven.
Who
will
quickly
remedy
things
that
are
wrong
and
have
a
long
term
vision
to
get
things
to
get
things
right?
E
We're
growing
faster,
yet
I
don't
have
to
explain
why
VP
of
recruiting
is
a
sense
if
you're
going
from
400
to
thousand
people
in
it
in
a
year
and
we've
been,
it's
been
great.
Having
a
lot
of
applicants,
I'd
get
lab,
we
got
over
three
thousand
a
week,
but
it's
we're
not
doing
a
good
enough
job,
yet
I've
also
making
sure
every
single
job.
A
I'm
glad
that
one
weekend
he's
already
making
that
kind
of
impact
yep.
What
advice
would
you
have
for
slightly
earlier
stage?
Ceos?
Maybe
you
know
late
feed
or
you've
just
raised
your
series,
a
your
30
to
40
people.
When
do
you
think
people,
when
do
you
think
CEOs
and
board
should
be
thinking
about
bringing
in
someone
specifically
to
look
after
the
people
function.
E
Think
about
20
25
people
already
and
then
it's
a
lot
of
different
things
and
it's
gonna
be
a
bit
recruiting
heavy
and
some
excellent
work
and
stuff
like
that.
But
then
already
it's
time
for
like
if
your
startup
that's
growing
fast
for
at
least
some
someone
sourcing
for
someone
being
the
recruiting
coordinator,
it's
gonna
be
more
HR
questions
at
that
point
already
and
we
did
it
too
late.
I
think
there
was
a
mistake.
A
A
The
ROI
of
that
rule
is
going
to
be
there
I
think,
there's
some
people
who
approach
it
more
from
a
preventative
aspect
that
having
that
that
person
in
early
will
help
keep
you
out
of
trouble
but
I
think
there's
even
much
more
upside
potential
on
having
someone
thinking
strategically
about
your
people
issues
all
day
long.
It's.
E
A
B
No
I
think
just
that
all
about
affirming
people
but
said
it's
now,
working
with
someone
like
you
who
is
constantly
evolving,
is
as
a
firm
just
we're
really
appreciative.
For
you
know
we
when
we
had
our
lunch
and
and
we
started
talking,
I,
don't
even
know
how
the
conversation
came
into
be,
but,
like
I
had
shared
about
getting
a
new
laptop
stand
or
something,
and
you
just
immediately
went
into
taking
notes
on
well.
B
That
would
be
a
really
good
idea
to
bring
to
our
teams
and
how
in
providing
like
remote
resources
and
so
just
said,
just
appreciate
who
you
are
and
how
you're
constantly
evolving
yourself,
I
I
read
and
LinkedIn.
Today
it
was
in
there
like
daily
news
and-
and
they
said
like
it's
good
to
have
employees,
travel
and
I
commented
and
then
tagged
your
your
handbook,
where
you
offer
your
home
as
a
resource
for
your
employees
to
travel,
and
so
it's
really
no
other
questions.