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B
I
wasn't
expecting
this
is
our
first
question,
but
when
I
went
off
to
school
I
always
been
interested
in
science
and
I
really
didn't
go
off
wanting
to
do
anything
one
particular
thing.
So
I
had
to
declare
a
major
at
the
end
of
my
freshman
year
and
I
went
through
the
course
catalog
and
I
just
asked
any
course
that
looked
potentially
interesting
to
me
and
because
we
never
had
an
earth
science
course
in
my
high
school.
A
lot
of
the
geology
stuff
looked
interesting
and
the
other
appeal
was,
I
thought
you
know.
B
B
A
A
All
right,
so
we're
all
very
excited.
We
I
most
of
the
whole
group
has
read,
read
your
book.
I
think
it's
just
it's
just
a
great
book
and
it
it
really
resonated
with
me.
As
you
know,
my
career
has
gone
over
a
few
decades
and
just
the
change
in
I.t
and
of
course,
you
know,
many
people
think
that
silicon
valley
and
our
field
tends
to
be.
You
know
as
dynamic
as
the
companies
that
are
around
us
all
the
time.
A
B
D
B
Some
features
of
our
operating
model-
if
you
will,
our
I.t
operating
model
here
in
the
valley,
obviously
appear
in
other
parts
of
the
country.
Nowhere
do
they
appear
collectively.
You
know
in
the
same
totality
nowhere
I
think,
and
I'm
not
being
arrogant.
It's
just
there's
something
unique
about
the
way
it
gets
practiced
here
in
the
startup
community
and
again,
if
you've
never
worked
in
one
of
those
larger,
more
conventional
kind
of
organizations
being
the
gulf
between
their
operations
and
the
way
we
do
things.
Typically.
Here
you
really
can't
can't
appreciate.
B
That's
one
example,
and
then
another
was
a
cio,
a
fairly
large
industrial
concern
in
connecticut,
and
she
was
recruited
her
cio
job
in
january
of
this
year,
and
she
came
from
an
organization
that
made
pretty
extensive
use
of
aws.
A
lot
of
production
systems
were
on
aws
platform
when
she
joined
her
new
company.
You
know
she
inquired
about
how
they
were
leveraging.
The
cloud
and
people
brought
in
once
I
put
this
information
to
her,
which
they
are
quite
proud
of.
B
You
know
like
little
sort
of
prototyping
experimental,
put
your
toe
on
the
water
kind
of
things.
She
said.
I
realized
like
they
thought
they
knew
what
they
were
doing,
but
they
just
hadn't
taken
it
to
a
scale
or
a
level
complexity
where
they
were
seeing
real
business
benefits.
It
was
effectively
a
hobby
project
that
was
being
pursued
in
the
it
organization.
B
They
should
use
the
book
as
kind
of
a
strategic
planning,
guide
and
kind
of
look
at
these
emerging
trends
and
say
what
do
I
need
to
double
down
on
in
terms
of
developing
an
organizational
competency
for
my
business
for
my
company
in
the
future.
We
can't
be
good
at
everything.
We
can't
be
good
at
automation,
security
and
you
know
app
support
and
cloud
ops
and
blah
blah
blah.
B
A
Yeah,
I
love
that
I
it's
interesting
to
think
about
the
fact
that
this
this
new
world
order
of
covet
has
really
sort
of
accelerated
this
all
remote
workforce
and
I
think,
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
companies
that
are
going
to
embrace
this,
and
you
know
I
never
really
thought
about
this
before
until
just
the
second,
but
these
companies
are
going
to
be
extending
in
our
world.
You
know
I
t
management
business
technology
across
the
globe,
and
so
I
think
there's
going
to
be
this
acceleration.
A
You
know
you
talk
about
agile.
As
an
example
you
gave
me
there.
I
think
you're
going
to
see
these
companies
embrace
things
like
this
with
the
sort
of
forcing
function
of
you
know,
democratization
of
doesn't
really
matter
where
you
work
anymore.
I
love
that
idea,
and
sometimes
I
do
wonder
like
when
I
read
the
book.
A
I
was
like
I'm
in
the
bubble
and
I
wonder
how
other
people
view
looking
you
know
back
at
us
sometimes,
but
I
think
that
it's
a
really
good
primer
for
the
way
we
should
all
be
thinking
about
the
next
generation
of
how
we
operate
as
a
as
a
it
function.
So
I
love
that-
and
I
so
mission
accomplished
at
least
for
one
person
here.
So
thank
you
for
that.
A
One
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
ask
you
about
is
you
know
one
of
the
things
that's
happened
over
the
last
couple
decades,
at
least
in
my
world.
Is
you
know
the
consumerization
of
technology?
You
know
it
used
to
be
in
the
it
function
and
I'm
speaking
generically
here
that
you
would
have
a
real
competitive
advantage,
potentially
in
the
technology
that
you
actually
purchased.
A
The
technology
stacks
have
all
been
pretty
much.
You
know
even
across
the
board
at
this
point,
so
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
about
is
now
it's
around
consultative
and
actually
getting
these
pieces
of
technology
to
operate
a
little
a
little
more
efficiently,
but
because
the
simplicity
of
the
technology
stacks
lots
of
times,
things
become
very
decentralized.
A
So
I
was
hoping
you
could
give
us
your
thoughts
a
little
bit
around
how
you
view
today's
world
from
sort
of
a
decentralized
technology
ownership,
point
of
view
and
how
you
still
provide
a
lot
of
service
to
the
organization
as
a
whole.
Around
solutioning.
Could
you
kind
of
just
touch
on
that
you're
sort
of
maybe
you've
evolved
over
over
the
years
so.
B
I
come
from
a
command
and
control.
You
know
history,
where
I
t
bought
everything,
but
nobody
could
go
and
buy
a
monitor
or
there
was
I
mean
there
weren't,
really
even
it
wasn't
even
a
consumer
app
to
speak
of
so
in
the
current
world
that
we're
in
obviously
you've
got
functional
departments
that
go
out
sometimes
with
little
or
no
I.t
involvement
and
they
bring
in
new
forms
of
technology,
and
I
think
a
lot
of
it.
Leaders
and
their
organizations
have
struggled.
B
You
know
to
cope
with
that
new
kind
of
operating
model.
You
know
and
we've
labeled
those
initiatives
as
shadow
I.t,
which
is
kind
of
you
know
funny,
because
you
know
we
were
the
technology
evangelist
for
a
long
time
saying.
Our
companies
would
be
so
much
better
off
if
we
just
made
greater
and
broader
use
of
information
technology
and
then
they
went
off
and
did
it
and
then
we
said
you
know
what
we
mean
like
that
we
met
with
us
in
control.
B
Like
everything
comes
you
know
through
us,
we
don't
want
you
going
out
there
and
doing
things
without
our
direct
involvement,
so
you've
got
to
get
out
of
that.
Expanding
control
mentality
and
I
promoted
this
idea
of
stewardship,
so
it
might
be.
You
know,
deliciously
satisfying
to
to
actually
kind
of
thumb,
your
nose
at
the
functional
groups
and
say
well,
you
bought
it.
B
You
didn't
ask
me
you're
on
your
own,
like
I
don't
don't
come
to
me
with
your
problems,
but
that
would
probably
be
not
only
short-sighted
but
limiting
as
well,
and
I
think
the
the
stewardship
role
that
I
t
should
play
is
to
you
know,
try
to
understand.
What's
out
there
develop
an
inventory,
apply
some
vendor
management
principles
to
renewal,
so
that
you're
helping
the
company
make
the
best
use
of
its
financial
investment
in
the
portfolio,
make
sure
security
precautions
and
data
handling.
You
know
measures
are
put
in
place
to
keep
those
folks
out
of
trouble.
B
I
always
kid
that
you
know
people
in
some
of
these
functions
like
marketing
I'll
just
pick
out.
You
know
they
couldn't
spell
gdpr,
you
know
if
you
you
ask
them
to
and
then
there's
there's
ways
to
increase
the
value
as
well,
so
you
could
bring
in
a
tool
like
walk
me
that
would
help
enable
you
know
deeper
use
of
some
of
the
tools
that
are
already
there,
which
is
a
way
of
getting
more
value,
realization
out
of
the
tools
that
you
had.
So
that's
that's
my
take
on
this,
which
is
in
the
new.
C
B
That
you
can't
necessarily
control
you
know,
there's
ways
you
can
add
value
another
that
I
failed
to
mention
is.
If
you
have
some
kind
of
an
api
integration
platform,
you
can
help
in
using
apis
on
these
different
platforms
and
tools
to
make
the
corporation
more
efficient
in
ways
that
an
individual
functional
group
wouldn't
think
about.
Like
you
know,
hr
is
going
to
worry
about
integrating
the
tools
that
hr
bought
and
whether
that
information
would
be
useful
upstream
or
downstream
and
finance
or
some
other
organization
they'd,
leave
that
to
somebody
else
to
sort
out.
A
A
If
you
can
have
everyone
participate
in
that
technology
side
and
getting
more
value
out
of
it.
So
I'm
I'm
excited
about.
You
know
continuing
to
to
impress
upon
us
as
a
as
a
industry
as
our
as
our
as
our
running
I.t
operations
across
whatever
vertical
you're
in.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
that
is
the
radical
change
and
accepting
that
is
going
to
be
what
what
sets
you
apart
and
that
that
will
be
the
new
strategic
driver
for
a
company.
B
I
still
think
it's
important
to
bring
in
the
systems
of
record
and
under
one
centralized
function.
You
know
if
and
we
have
colleagues
that
will
go
unnamed
in
this
call
where
finance
owns
the
netsuite
system.
Hr
owns
the
workplace
system.
You
know,
sales
ops
is
in
charge
of
salesforce
and
trying
to
orchestrate
some
degree
of
coordination
and
controls,
compliance,
etc.
Data
management,
you
know
mastering
principles
across
that
kind
of
a
organization
can
be
very,
very
difficult.
So
companies
need
to
get
educated
that
there's
some
real
synergies
and
really
some
some
almost.
A
Agreed
agreed,
there's
your
tier
one
apps
that,
especially
as
you're
a
company,
that's
going
to
mature
and
become
you
know,
potentially
a
public
company
as
an
example,
one
of
the
other
things
I
wanted
to
pick
your
brain
around
and
then
we're
going
to
open
it
for
a
regular
q.
A
and
the
document
is
getting
filled
out,
which
is
great.
A
So
it
is
a
new
world
and
an
ever
evolving
sort
of
a
group
of
skills
that
you're
going
to
need
high
level.
This
is
a
really
rich
and
deep
question
here,
so
you
could
go
on
for
a
long
time,
but
you
know
from
a
career
development
point
of
view.
You
know
what
do
you?
What
would
you
what's
the
advice
you
would
give?
A
B
Talked
about
this
a
little
bit
in
the
past,
so
I
would
counsel
everybody
you
know
when
you
take
the
break
over
the
holidays
at
the
end
of
the
year
in
most
organizations
sometime
in
the
next
several
months.
You
know
the
company's
gonna
perform
its
annual
performance
review
on
you,
you'll
be
administered
surgically.
You
know
to
you,
but
while
you.
C
B
You
should
evaluate
the
company's
performance
in
terms
of
your
career
development
and
I
think,
there's
sort
of
three
axis
for
doing
that.
So
one
obviously
is
technical.
You
know:
did
your
experience
over
the
last
year
expand
either
broaden
or
deepen
technical
skills
in
some
fashion
or
another?
You
know.
The
second
area
is
really
around
the
business
knowledge
that
you've
gained-
and
you
know
people
are
not
always
terribly
aware
of
that.
B
But,
as
you
progress
in
your
career,
your
ability
to
keep
up
with
all
the
technical
changes
that
are
happening
gets
tougher
and
tougher,
and
tougher
typically,
and
the
business
knowledge
that
you've
acquired
actually
becomes
a
big
part
of
the
equity
that
you
bring
to
the
job
market.
Why
people
are
going
to
want
to
hire
you
and
then
the
third.
B
You
know
your
experience
in
leading
managing
coordinating,
inspiring
teams
of
people,
you
know,
and
it
doesn't.
It
doesn't
mean
you
have
to
have
a
management
job
with
like
10
direct
reports,
but
you
could
have
managed
an
international
project
team
or
you
could
have
had
a
cross-functional
team.
Given
geographic
location,
you
could
have
been
put
on
a
project
where
half
of
the
people
were
contractors
and
you
had
to
kind
of
juggle.
B
You
know
full-time
fte,
colleagues
and
activities
of
the
contractors,
and
so
you
know
when
you
look
back
over
the
last
that
12-month
period
and
if
you,
if
you
feel
like
well,
you
know
my
experience
in
12
months-
didn't
really
move
the
needle
and
I've
used
this
term
intellectual
strip
mining.
You
know
the
company
mined,
my
brain
and
my
energy
to
get
what
it
wanted,
but
I
did
I'm
not
seeing
a
whole
lot
in
return.
B
D
B
Never
really,
you
know
shown
much
interest
and
I
guess
my
last
bit
of
advice.
So
I
think
that
annual
kind
of
assessment
can
be
very
beneficial
and
the
last
and
I
think
brandon-
and
I
talked
about
this-
you
should
always
ask
for
feedback
from
especially
like
business
partners,
and,
and
I
mean
your
manager
is
supposed
to
give
you
feedback.
But
when
you
finish
a
project
or
even
do
something
with
like
a
peer
any
advice,
you
can
get
about
how
to
do
some
something
better.
B
B
Going
to
just
offer
it
up
there
out
of
the
blue,
because
why
would
they
do
that?
Maybe
it's
semi-critical
or
it's
you
know
it
could
be
interpreted
as
an
inadequacy
or
a
failure
or
gap
or
shortcoming
in
what
you
had
actually
done.
So
most
people
are
not
going
to
just
sort
of
say,
oh
by
the
way,
I
thought
you
might
like
this
bit
of
feedback,
but
if
you
open
the
door,
you
know
you
can
you
can
learn
a
lot
and
and
even
if
there
isn't
feedback,
I
can
guarantee
you.
A
A
Right,
if
you
ever
want
the
truth,
ask
the
significant
other
you'll
find
out
the
truth.
I
I
did
a
one
follow-up
question
to
to
one
of
the
key
points
you
made
there
around.
You
know
the
business
business
knowledge
being
you
know
the
the
the
value
you
bring.
Can
you
maybe
make
that
a
little
more
salient
like
what
like
for
you
like?
C
B
I
just
look
back
at
my
own
career.
You
know
I
worked
for
visa.
I
learned
a
ton
about
how
banks
operate,
how
the
overnight
bank
settlement
process
operates.
You
know
how
credit
cards
work
and
authorization
etc,
and
I
worked
for
air
electronics,
which
a
distributor
of
electronic
components
so
learn
a
lot
about
supply
chains
and
international
supply
chains
etc.
B
And
you
know
that-
and
that's
just
two
examples
that
enabled
me
to
like
in
future
interviews.
Let's
say
you
know,
I
think
I
was
able
to
ask
some
more
perceptive
and
penetrating
questions
about
the
business
and
where
some
of
the
issues
were
in
the
business
and
and
really
take
that
kind
of
interview,
conversation
on
beyond
just
sort
of
ik
considerations
and,
in
fact,
there's
another
anecdotal
story
that
I'll
share
with
you.
I
thought
there
was
one
job
that
I
actually
landed
so
so
I
walked
in
and
I
got
to
know
my
svp.
B
That
hired
me
pretty
well,
and
I
said
why
did
you
hire
me
for
this
job,
because
I
you
know
now
that
I'm
here
and
I
understand
what
the
job's
about,
and
I
look
at
my
background.
You
know
I
didn't
kind
of
get
a
loss
as
to
why,
and
I
know
there
were
other
candidates
and
she
said
you
know
you
just
ask
better
questions
than
anybody
else.
A
A
A
I
could
talk
to
you
all
today,
but
of
course
part
of
this
is
to
open
it
up
to
everybody,
especially
since
we
have
read
the
book
so
we're
gonna
start
the
q,
a
from
everyone
in
the
group
here
just
a
reminder
that
when
you
introduce
yourself
please
let
mark
know
your
role
and
also
because
we're
so
dispersed
around
the
world
just
where
you
are
at
physically
in
the
world,
so
we're
going
to
start
it
off
carl.
Would
you
do
us
the
honors.
D
Hi
mark
my
name
is
paul:
I'm
a
senior
data
analyst
on
the
data
team
and
I'm
from
detroit,
but
I'm
currently
in
san
diego
there's
some
peacocks
behind
me,
which
is
really
cool.
So
I
wanted
to
let
everyone
know,
but
I'm
gonna
change
my
question
from
number
one
to
number
nine,
because
you
kind
of
talked
about
the
self-development
and
self-reflection
a
little
bit.
I
did
really
like
that
section.
D
In
general,
the
question
was
oops
thanks:
brian
is
there
so
the
portion
where
you
talk
about
developing,
really
talented
people,
I'm
hoping
to
change
it
from
a
like
I'm,
not
a
manager,
but
I'm
reflecting
on
myself.
But
was
there
a
moment
in
your
life?
You
knew
that
one
of
those
were
a
major
blocker
for
you
and
how
did
you
conquer
it
and
grow
from
it?.
B
B
So
I
think
I
kind
of
again
you've
kind
of
learned
over
time
that
that
you
know
everybody's
got
a
kind
of
part
of
developing
a
plan
or
executing
a
project
or
designing
something.
You
know
you
just
don't
walk
in
like
you've
come
down
from
the
mountain
with
the
you
know,
the
directions
and
stunned
tablets
and
like,
like
you,
tell
people
what
to
do
along
those
lines,
one
of
the
one
of
the
stages
in
my
career,
where
I
think
that
becomes
particularly
became
particularly
acute.
B
I
think,
when
you're
a
first-time
cio,
you
really
spend
a
lot
of
time
and
brian
you're,
not
the
first
type
yeah.
It's
just
a
lot
of
time
like
proving
to
yourself
and
everybody
around
you
that,
like
you
know
everything
right
like
you,
can
you're
really
running
the
whole
place
and
enlarge
what
people
learn
over
time.
Is
you
know
your
skills
and
bandwidth
just
don't
scale
to
be
able
to
do
that,
and
that's
why
being
able
to
build
you
know,
productive
teams
becomes
so
important
in
your
ability
to
work
with
other
people
as
well.
D
B
B
I've
heard
of
studies
that
have
been
done
where
people
who
talk
about
wanting
to
come
back
to
a
worker
kind
of
office
environment.
Typically
younger
people
are
really
attracted
by
the
opportunity
to
socialize
with
other
people.
They
miss
the
office
because
they
have
relationships
there,
older
people,
predictably
with
you,
know,
children
and
other
activities
that
they're
involved
in
many
times
they
miss
the
cloud,
the
work
collaboration
part.
You
know
the
ability
to
go
into
a
conference
room
and
do
stuff
on
the
whiteboard
and
those
kind
of
things.
B
So
I'm
not
so
sure
some
of
those
instincts
won't
kick
back
in
again.
You
know
when
everybody
essentially
comes
out
a
call
earlier
this
morning
with
somebody
from
detroit
of
all
places
who
had
used
the
comparison
to
the
911
attack
on
the
us
and
how
catastrophic-
and
you
know
disturbing
it
was
but
the
fact
that
really
everybody
jumped
right
back
on
airplanes
and
started
flying
again
right
when
they
could
like
after
they
figured
out
what
the
problem
was,
and
so
you
know,
maybe
the
difference
with
this.
B
Obviously,
is
you
know,
distributing
a
vaccine
worldwide
is
going
to
take
a
long
time
before
you
can
confidently
say
I
can
walk
out
of
my
home
or
go
to
an
office,
but
well,
I
think
those
I
think
some
of
the
attractions
of
the
office
are
going
to
be
there.
Will
it
ever
be
completely
the
way
it
was
hard.
B
Manufacturing
based
company,
you
know
your
major
part
of
your
workforce
is
going
to
have
to
print
every
day
you
have
to
distribute
product.
You
know
people
have
to
get
into
trucks
and
go
to
people's
homes
and
those
kind
of
things.
So
I
don't
know
if
it's
going
to
be
this
like
revolutionary
new
world
of
order
that
a
lot
of
people
progress
now
as
far
as
attracting
talent,
I
do
suspect
there'll
be
a
lot
more
flexibility.
B
You
know
in
working
hours
and
things
of
that
nature.
I
think
you
almost
have
to
do
that
to
attract
people
but
but
even
newly
hired
people,
I
think,
will
want
to
come
in
and
learn
more.
My
my
own
daughter
has
gone
to
work
for
a
company
since
the
crisis
started,
and
she
said
it's
kind
of
ironic
that
even
when
they've
had
some
small
get-togethers,
like
they've
gone
to
a
park
like
a
small
subset
of
people,
that
she
works
with
they'll
go
to
a
park
and
they'll
socially
distance,
but
she
said
when
they
get
together.
B
They
still
like
tell
the
stories
of
things
that
happened
in
the
old
days.
So
in
part,
these
events
were
staged
to
help
her
feel
included
in
the
group.
She
said
it's
actually
almost
had
the
opposite
effect
because
they
miss
each
other
so
much
that
when
they
get
together,
they
just
socialize
about
the
things
that
they
did
before
and
they
kind
of
struggled
to
remember
to
include
her.
So
so
that's
a
long-winded.
A
That's
good
it'll
be
interesting
to
see
how
this
all
plays
out.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
hybrid
model
and
really
depend
on
industry
for
sure
I
think
if
you're
a
tech
company
and
you
you
know
you,
you
don't
need
that
physical
office,
it's
a
lot
easier.
If
you
are
in
certain
science
sciences,
you
know
or
construction
manufacturing.
A
Of
course,
those
things
you
have
to
physically
be
there,
no
matter
what
it
will
not
be
the
same.
That
is
for
sure
we
do.
We
do
know
that
that
it
will
be
a
difference,
some
sort
of
difference
and
the
grand
experiment
of
having
all
these
companies
forced
to
do
something
has
removed,
potentially
the
fear
of
back
to
the
sort
of
control
mechanism.
Where,
like
I
must
control
people
being
in
the
office.
I
only
know
they're
productive.
A
E
Yeah
hi
mark
I'm
daniel.
I
also
live
in
quito
ecuador
and
I'm
a
senior
integrations
engineer.
My
question
is
more
of
a
yeah
interesting
one
from
engineering.
So
in
software
engineering
we
have
a
paradigm
called
convention
over
configuration,
so
that
talks
about
using
frameworks
to
reduce
the
number
of
decisions
that
any
single
developer
would
have
to
make
when
building
their
software.
And
I'm
wondering
if
you
think
that
that
also
applies
to
an
extent
to
it
and
whether
there's
any
frameworks
that
you
and
your
teams
have
used
over
the
years.
E
B
B
D
B
I
think
actually,
this
one
example
believes
that
they've
deployed
their
tool
at
symantec
and
I
think
they've
deflected
about
50
of
the
nominal
incoming
traffic
to
the
service
desk,
so
presumably
the
traffic
that
got
deflected
was
handled
to
the
satisfaction
of
the
people
that
you
know
experienced
the
tool.
So
that's
an
example.
B
B
You
know
I
t
can
say:
well,
you
know
what
the
head
of
sales
ops
comes
in
here
every
monday
and
looks
at
the
candidate
list
and
reprioritizes
us
on
a
weekly
basis.
So
if
you've
got
a
problem
with
what's
coming
out,
the
other
end
go
talk
to
him
or
her
because
we're
taking
our
orders
and
if
we're
not
getting
to
stuff
fast
enough.
B
So
it's
not
at
all
uncommon
and
the
kind
of
life
that
I've
led
in
the
past.
You
would
pick
one
week
during
the
quarter.
It
might
be
the
seventh
or
eighth
or
ninth
week.
It
would
be
after
quarter
close
and
you
know
before
quarter
end.
You
free
systems
for
a
couple
of
days
put
in
all
the
modifications
for
that
90-day
period.
B
Make
sure
that
nothing
went
wrong
and
turn
everything
back
on,
and
you
know
just
wait
for
another
90
days
to
update
things,
and
so
I
think
you
know
that's
reduced
some
of
the
latency
in
the
world
of
ip
as
well.
The
third,
the
third
opportunity.
So
this
is
something
I'm
very
interested
in
at
the
present
time.
Are
these
new
low
code
coding
platforms
that
are
highly
iconized
and
you
know,
I.t
groups,
especially
here
in
the
valley,
have
gotten
away
from
writing
applications.
C
B
Opportunity
to
build
sort
of
lightweight
apps
that
make
like
skin
part
of
that
portfolio
so
take.
For
example,
you've
got
like
a
team
of
people
that
get
in
a
truck
every
day
in
calgary
and
they
go
out
and
visit
active
pumping,
well
sites,
it's
a
maintenance
team
and
they
need
information
about
a
lot
of
different
things
that
exist
in
a
lot
of
different
systems
and
guess
what
there's
no
like
app?
They
can
go
by
that.
Does
it
the
way
that
chevron
wants
that
job
done,
so
you
could
use
a
local.
B
So
you
could
do
two
things.
You
could
go
write
something
in
java
from
scratch
right,
a
bespoke
application
or
you
could
jump
on
one
of
these
low
code
platforms
and
actually
come
up
with
something
that
was
optimized
for
the
execution
of
a
specific
process
or
the
activities
of
a
certain
team.
It
could
be
the
field
marketing
team,
maybe
for
field
marketing
events
you'd
have
like
your
own
github
field,
marketing
application
of
the
way
that
your
cmo
wants
those
to
be
conducted.
B
A
Yeah,
hopefully,
use
gitlab
as
the
example
instead
of
github
for
us,
if
you
could,
that
would
be.
That
would
be.
That
would
be
great.
I
I
it's
interesting.
We
were
talking
earlier
about
how
you
know
all
the
tech
stacks
have
been
pretty
well
commoditized
and
you're,
using
an
analogy
of
you,
know,
jigsaw
puzzle,
it's
tied
together
with
application
platforms,
but
it
is
interesting
to
think
about
the
future
of
technology
and
some
of
the
new
problems
that
we're
trying
to
solve,
and
I
think
I
think
you
know
ai
low
code
platforms.
A
You
know
ml
as
an
example.
I
think
all
those
things
are,
you
know
if
you
know
the
business
you're
in
and
then
you
bring
along
the
technologies
that
are
more
cutting
edge
and
applying
those
technologies
to
the
business
solutions
and
maybe
get
ahead
of
even
what
the
business
might
be,
asking
be
more
of
a
dynamic
shop
and
and
now
that
we
don't
have
the
burden
of
operating
all
these
heavy
I'll
pick
on.
You
know
a
big
heavy
erp
system.
A
C
Sure,
hey
mark
rob
parker.
I
run
our
data
team,
I'm
based
out
of
atlanta
georgia
thanks
for
coming
today,
it's
been
a
really
great
discussion
so
far.
My
question
is
from
your
book.
Truth
from
the
valley.
There's
a
section
around
people
part
one.
You
talk
about
interviewing
people
and
one
of
your
break.
The
script
approaches
where
you
sort
of
take
the
interview
off
the
beaten
path.
What's
your
favorite
break
the
script
interview
question.
B
B
B
So
I
don't
know
if
I
have
a
standard
breakthrough,
but
you
want
to
definitely
get
the
candidate
off
balance
to
some
in
some
fashion
or
another,
and
if
it's
you
know
something
about
their
personal
background
that
not
only
breaks
the
strip
sometimes,
but
it
puts
them
at
ease
and
you
can
get
a
little
bit
farther
another
part
of
that
interview.
I've
done
a
lot
of
interviewing
and
on
both
sides
of
the
table
you
know,
is
to
just
become
a
much
better
listener.
B
I
there
was
a
firm
that
was
coaching
us
about
how
to
interview,
and
they
have
they
had
video
of
like
real
life
interviews,
and
they
would
show
us
interviews
where
the
interviewer
would
speak
literally
for
more
than
45
minutes
during
the
hour,
and
the
interviewee
only
had
a
chance
to
speak
for
like
10
or
15
minutes
and
and
so
whatever.
But
the
listening
part
is
something
people
don't
really
do
effectively
and
and
contrast
that
with.
B
H
Mark
christopher
nelson,
I
run
enterprise
applications
here
at
kit
lab
and
so
was
very
smitten,
with
your
concept
of
moving
from
plan,
build
run
to
broker
integrate
orchestrate
and
the
question
I
have
is:
how
do
you
know
when
your
business
partners
are
ready,
because
I
I
can
see
a
scenario
where
we
understand
the
concepts
we
we
understand,
how
we're
now,
brokering
more
the
focus
is
on
integration,
etc.
But
how
do
we
know
when
our
business
partners
are
ready
to
make
that
leap
to
that
new
terminology?.
B
Well,
usually,
they
lead
the
charge
right,
I
mean
they
don't
use
the
terminology,
but
they're
out
there
doing
things
that
put
you
into
a
broker
role
because
and
you've
got
to
come
in
and
say
to
them.
I
know
you've
fallen
in
love
with
greenhouse,
but
there's
four
other
recruiting
and
applicant
tools
that
have
these
other
pros
and
cons,
and
so
we'd
like
to
slow
the
train
down
and
help
kind
of
broke
for
a
broader
look
at.
H
Well,
no,
I
think
that's
interesting,
because
I
think
that
to
your
point
they
lead
in
the
action.
I
think
it's
then
it's
then.
What
I
think
I'm
hearing
now
is
is
if
that's
the
action
that's
happening
and
they
may
be
tied
to
some
old
verbiage.
It's
time
to,
then
we
can
introduce
the
new
verbiage
and
say:
hey,
let's
describe
what's
happening
and
here's
how
we
see
our
role
here.
B
They're
going
to
come
at
this
those
issues
strictly
from
a
functionality,
point
of
view
right,
that's
how
they're
going
to
think
about
an
application
and
there's
many
other
considerations
like
security
and
the
ecosystem
you're
buying
into
like
what
what
that
particular
tool
plays
with
nicely
and
plays
them
not
so
nicely,
and
people
can
be
very
easy,
well
we're
all
easily
seduced
by
other
pitches,
let's
face
it
and
they
they
need
some
help
and
be,
and
you
know,
be
forced
to
look
at
alternatives.
You
know
in
larger
conventional
companies.
B
I
think
this
is
still
the
practice.
Sometimes
you
you're,
forced
to
by
the
internal
rules
of
the
company,
to
have
evaluated
at
least
three
vendors
for
a
particular
purchase.
Right
and
you'd
have
to
come
in
and
say
you
know
these
were
the
pros
and
cons,
and
this
is
how
we
landed
here.
You
don't
just
show
up
and
say:
oh,
we
fell
in
love
with
this
thing.
We
want
to
go,
buy
it.
B
F
Hello,
my
name
is
alicia,
I
am
in
beautiful,
cloudy
minneapolis
minnesota
and
I
run
purchasing
procurement
here
at
get
lab
and
you
started
to
touch
on
it
a
little
bit
kind
of,
as
you
were
talking
with
christopher
about
you
know,
looking
at
three
different
vendors
and
some
of
those
different
things.
So
that's
really
where
my
question
is
coming
from.
F
B
B
Typically,
you
don't
staff
up
in
depth
in,
like
the
legal
and
procurement
and
security
areas
that
you
need
to
be
able
to
process
these
new
procurement
requests,
and
so
again,
after
a
couple
of
disappointing
experiences,
functions,
have
a
tendency
to
go
off
and
solve
their
problems
on
their
own
by
shortcutting
those
things.
So
I
mean.
F
B
To
overcome,
that
is
to
provide
more
bandwidth
around
those
functions
and
then
the
other
thing
I'm
sure,
you're
more
than
aware
of
like
the
legal
function,
will
typically
get
tied
up
at
end
of
quarter
with
big
deals
that
are
coming
through.
So
they've
got
other
things
to
worry
about,
and
you
know
somebody's
sitting
in
marketing
that
wants
to
go,
buy
a
marketing
database
and
needs
a
contract
reviewed
or
whatever
by
legal.
Well
guess
what
we're
not
going
to
do
that
or
we
got
a
deal
here?
B
That's
you
know,
that's
money
coming
in
the
door
if
we
get
this
deal,
paperwork
finished
up,
so
the
bandwidth
of
the
back
office
processes,
you
know,
are
probably
the
biggest
deterrent
that
really
turns
people
away.
So
solving
that
kind
of
problem
prioritization
can
help
a
lot
and
that
can
be
difficult
because
people
think
everything
their
own
personal
you
know
needs
are
the
most
important
thing.
I've
seen
procurement
groups
shoot
themselves
in
the
foot
because
they
spend
as
much
time
on
a
ten
thousand
dollar
purchase
as
a
hundred
thousand
dollar
purchase.
B
Some
people
just
love
to
crucify
vendors.
You
know
what
they
are
going
to
subject:
every
contract,
every
price
negotiation.
Everything
so
like
you
know
the
gauntlet
and
it's
just
nothing's
coming
through
on
my
watch
here.
You
know
until
they've
been
fully
punished
and
tortured,
and
so
you
always
you
can
end
up
a
lot
of
time.
You
know
wasting
time
on
smaller
kind
of
things,
so
there
should
be
a
way
to
kind
of
fast,
fast
track
and
then.
C
B
My
last
bit
of
advice,
particularly
in
companies
that
have
exposure
to
sas
applications.
You
know
once
it
comes
in
the
door,
it's
like
nobody
owns
this
application,
so
the
vendor
will
call
up.
I'm
sure,
you've
experienced
this
the
federal
club
and
said
we're
going
to
turn
this
thing
off.
You
know
december
1st,
and
it
comes
in
some.
You
know
some
part
of
the
organization
makes
sense
and
whoever
come
receives.
It
says:
well,
I'm
not
really
responsible
for
this.
Maybe
I
wasn't
even
here
when
they
bought
it
like.
B
I
don't
even
know
why
I'm
getting
this
thing.
So
nothing
happens.
The
vendors
finally
says
well,
like
you
know,
that's
monday,
it's
off
like
we're
turning
it
off.
Everybody
goes
into
panic
mode.
Somebody
runs
around
with
a
po
the
vendors
jacked
up
the
price
by
like
seven
or
ten
percent,
probably
more
than
the
increases
that
you
are
getting
in
your
own
commercial
product
right
and
you're,
giving
away
these
things
because
panic
has
set
in
and
nobody
wants.
B
D
F
I
Yeah
thanks
for
taking
the
time
again
today
mark,
I
also
really
appreciated
some
of
the
things
you
shared.
I
felt
really
honest
over
a
year
ago
at
the
ricardo
conference
in
san
francisco,
but
the
question
I
have
to
ask
here
is:
you
know
we're
on
the
path
to
be
a
public
company.
That's
a
big
transition,
it's
an
important
one,
there's
lots
of
considerations
and
I'm
curious.
I
B
Okay,
so
I
think
it's
maybe
a
maturity
thing,
so
I
mean
in
our
kind
of
companies
in
bay
area,
high-tech
companies,
usually
the
it
function,
really
starts
around.
You
know
handing
out
laptops,
making
sure
the
wi-fi
is
working
and
setting
up
a
service
desk
to
make
everybody
else
in
the
company
productive.
B
You
know
the
application
applications
are
scattered
in
a
lot
of
the
functional
teams.
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
drives
people
to
the
next
level
of
maturity
is
to
prepare
for
an
ipo
or
this
understanding
that
you
want
your
systems
of
record
managed
to
send
a
more
centralized
way.
Sometimes
people
do
that
because
they
get
frustrated
about
all
the
data
discrepancies
like
they
get
reporting
out
of
all
these
one-off
sas
apps
and
you
know,
there's
they're
not
properly
integrated,
etc.
So
so
you
go
from
that
first,
maybe
stage
one
maturity.
B
I
think
I'm
answering
your
question,
which
is
really
devoted
to
hardware
and
user
services
to
some
degree
of
application,
support
and
management,
and
then
you
know
the
next
step
of
the
process
is
typically
to
put
in
place
some
kind
of
a
project
management
office.
So
so
it
can
help
orchestrate
some
larger
initiatives
within
the
company
and
maybe
that
exists
within
a
biz,
ops,
team
or
whatever.
But
you
know
I've
seen
it.
B
Teams
that
start
to
build
up
from
the
infrastructure
and
the
app
support
into
areas
like
vendor
management
for
sas
applications
like
a
pmo
like
a
data,
warehousing
team,
you
know
or
a
security,
a
small
security
group,
and
I'm
not
in
my
mind-
it's
not
deterministic,
but
again
you
get
from
the
bread
and
butter.
You
know
infrastructure,
apps
and
start
to
take.
B
A
All
right
well,
as
expected,
there's
more
questions
than
time
allows
for,
but
we're
gonna
have
to
save
those
for
another
time
mark.
It
was
awesome
to
have
you
here.
Thank
you
so
much.
I
I
think
that
again.
If
the
goal
of
the
book
was
to
pro,
you
know,
sort
of
provoke
thought
lay
a
blueprint,
get
everyone
thinking
about
what
the
next
decade
looks
like.
A
I
think
the
mission
there
has
been
accomplished,
at
least
in
this
in
this
team,
so
really
appreciate
you
spending
the
time
with
us,
and
I
cannot
wait
to
follow
up
with
other
questions
with
you
on
a
personal
level
and
if
everyone
could
just
give
a
big
virtual
round
of
applause
for
mark
for
for
coming
and
joining
us
today.
Thank
you
mark.