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From YouTube: Nicolas explains EM role
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B
Thanks
I'm
doing
well,
how
are
you
I'm.
A
Good
I'm
good,
so
I
asked
you
today
to
talk
to
me
because
you
were
an
em
you're,
not
anymore,
and
I
just
want
to
go
with
you
for
your
history
and
also
some
decisions
that
you've
made
along
the
way
and
to
explain
better
what
em
rolls
means
and
what
consequences
it
may
have.
So,
okay.
So
let's
go
way
back.
So
what
made
you
think
about
this
change?
Going
from
the
icy
role
to
the
emerald
yeah.
B
Sure
so
I
actually
thought
that
I
would
go
for
engineering
manager
as
soon
as
I
started.
My
career
I
saw
that
I'd
like
to
take
over
responsibilities,
speak
up
about
doing
things
that
should
be
changed.
I
like
to
question
things
and
I
also
like
to
grow
others
and
see
them
like
like
support
them
along
the
way
right.
So
I
thought
this
is
a
really
good
trade
to
as
a
manager
and
that
I
enjoy.
These
things
might
be
a
good
reason
to
move
up
and
go
for
Engineering
Management
in
the
end
so
yeah.
A
B
Not
knowing
what
to
do
at
all
like
you,
you
and
IC,
and
you
code
all
day,
long
right
most
of
the
time
and
you
suddenly
stop
coding.
That's
the
thing
that
you
did
for
the
last
few
years
every
day
and
suddenly
you
don't
know
what
to
do,
but
you
still
get
busy
with
a
lot
of
different
things
that
you
need
to
do
suddenly
and
no
one
told
you
ever
how
to
do
it.
But
it's
part
of
your
job.
B
So
there's
like
small
things
in
the
beginning,
for
example,
I
took
over
a
team
with
about
seven
eight
engineers
and
there
are
bureaucratic
things
like
create
a
one-on-one
document
for
each
of
them
organize
a
meeting
with
them
organize
a
meeting
for
the
team
that
everyone
is
happy
with
the
time
zones
approved
expenses
and
so
on,
like
these
are
very
small
things,
but
they
creep
up
part
of
your
day,
and
so
this
was
something
I
didn't
expect,
and
that
was
an
interesting
switch
and
there's
also
this
sudden
different
pace
that
you
go
for
as
I
see
you
have
like
coding,
something
you
like
have
a
ticket,
you
will
resolve
it
and
you
think
in
days
and
weeks
and
as
a
manager
it
drifts
apart.
B
Switching
I
had
no
clear
idea
about
the
team
that
I
joined
and
what
they're
doing
so
I
had
to
get
insights,
but
not
too
deep,
because
I
can't
get
in
details,
and
this
was
super
hard
for
me
as
an
engineer,
I
want
to
exactly
understand,
what's
going
on
all
the
time,
but
at
some
point
you
can't,
because
you
switch
contacts
so
often
between
projects
that
you
need
to
trust
the
engineers
and
yeah.
That
was
easy
trusting,
but
you
still
want
to
know
because
at
some
point
you
get
a
question
from
product.
B
Maybe
they
ask
you
like?
Can
you
do
this
and
you
have
like
an
80
to
90
percent
guarantee
that
this
is
true
that
you
what
they
say
and
you
need
to
live
with
that?
As
an
engineer
you,
you
don't
do
this,
like
you,
have
a
100
answer,
so
yeah
like
a
shift
in
mindsets
and
pace
and
context
switching,
and
that
was
a
bit
of
a
hard
transition.
B
One
thing
I
also
want
to
call
out
is
the
relationship
you
have
appears
with
former
peers
actually
because
suddenly,
when
they
tell
you
something,
you
need
to
react
differently
right.
They
come
up
with
a
problem
as
a
peer.
You
are
absolutely
supportive
and
everything
and
there's
a
manager
as
well,
but
there's
a
different
change
in
perspective.
How
you
answer
things
right
so
yeah,
because
you're
also
suddenly
responsible
for
something
like
compensation,
changes
or
performance
reviews.
So
all
the
things
you
have
not
done
before
ever.
A
Yeah
I've
heard
this
I
read
one
sentence
about
like
being
a
manager
for
your.
Like
colleagues,
you
know
the
people
who
we
were
working
with
it's
like.
Will
you
be
okay
of
giving?
You
know,
critic
critique,
you
know,
or
you
know,
constructive
feedback
to
your
friends
like.
If
not
maybe
you
should
not
be
in
here.
If
you
are
okay
with
that,
that's
maybe
that's.
Like
one
indicator,
that's
you
know
you
might
be
okay
with
this
role.
If
you're
going
to
you
know
manage
your
former
colleagues
yeah.
B
Absolutely,
and
also
what
is
changing
a
lot
is
before
that
you
as
an
ICU
manage
code,
and
now
you
manage
people
and
that's
a
very
different
thing
in
the
end.
B
Yeah
that
was
going
quite
well.
They
supported
me
along,
like
I,
had
a
director
and
the
senior
manager
who
support
me
supported
me
and
what
I
quickly
have
done
in
the
beginning
is
I.
Looked
for.
Other
managers
who
were
in
a
similar
stage
as
I,
was,
for
example,
you
or
David,
and
we
had
I
had
this
network
of
like
okay.
They
go
through
the
same
things.
Sometimes
it's
interesting
because
they
have
a
different
shop
because
they
were
on
a
different
team
at
the
company.
B
They
do
different
things,
but
they
like
still
struggle
with
similar
patterns,
and
so
this
was
super
helpful
for
me
to
have
to
support
network
and
talk
to
you
like
every
week
or
every
second
week
about
things.
There.
A
B
So
I
was
acting
in
the
real
in
in
the
dream.
Engineering
manager
then
became
an
actual
manager,
and
so
after
one
year
of
being
like
a
manager
in
total
I
made
a
decision
to
step
back
and
what
I
found
is
I
was
so
much
more
exhausted
every
day.
Compared
to
my
previous
job-
and
this
was
not
about
I-
don't
want
to
wear
a
glass,
it
was
emotional
exhaustion.
B
Somehow,
so
one
good
thing
is
like
one
good
example
is
that
you
never
barely
think
of
as
Nic,
so
your
manager
maybe
has
seven
or
eight
reports,
then
there's
like
a
PM
that
is,
there's
a
string
meeting
with
the
team.
So
it
gives
you
a
minimum
of
like
eight
to
ten
meetings
per
week
and
from
going
from
one
to
two
meetings
to
ten
meetings
is
a
huge
increase
and
I
also
like
this
gave
me
like
10
hours
14
hours
per
week
in
meetings,
and
this
was
exhausting
to
me.
B
Socially
I
couldn't
see
my
friends
after
work
anymore,
because
it
was
so
so
exciting
for
me:
I'm,
not
sure,
honestly
how
it
would
be
in
an
ons
on
site,
sync
environment
like
not
remote,
because
Zoom
is
draining
even
more
like
socially
than
in
person.
I'm
I
would
be
curious
about
that.
To
be
honest
and
yeah,
there's
also
so
many
problems
that
always
arrive
at
you
that
you
never
see
as
an
IC.
So
if
you
have
the
question
what
you
work
on,
the
work
will
definitely
arrive
at
you
and
the
problems
will
arrive
here.
B
So
there
is
like
this
social
exhaustion
that
I
had,
but
also
the
emotional,
because
you
talk
to
people
all
day
long.
They
come
with
their
problems.
Sometimes
there's
like
a
fine
line
between
being
a
manager
being
a
coach
and
not
you
don't
want
to
be
their
therapist,
but
of
course,
they're
also
come
with
personal
problems,
sometimes
to
you,
and
in
the
end
this
was
too
much
for
me
and
there's
also
one
thing
that
I
saw
so
as
especially
at
gitlab
Via
people
manager,
and
so
you
barely
manage
like
technical
things.
B
That's
something
you
rather
see
like
at
staff
level
here
and
I
enjoyed
this
the
most
so
I
enjoyed
so
much
with
talking
about
technical
things
with
the
team,
and
it
was
awesome
and
then
I
saw
like
okay.
This
is
only
like
a
small
percentage
of
my
work
and
I.
Sometimes
shouldn't
even
do
this,
so
yeah
I
rather
want
to
do
that
than
this
like
people,
management,
part
and
yeah.
That's
where
I
saw.
This
is
not
the
right
rule
for.
A
B
I
saw
how
missed
that
I
can
influence
the
team
easily
like
as
in
you,
can't
do
it
as
an
ICA
Club.
Definitely,
but
it's
so
much
easier
as
a
team
level
as
a
manager,
you
can
just
say,
like:
let's
try
this
process
or
whatever
and
we'll
be
done,
and
also
what
I
liked
a
lot
is
this
pace
of
thinking?
B
It's
not
like
a
daily
and
weekly
I
like
this,
like
weekly
and
monthly
thinking,
rather
than
the
daily
and
weekly
so
like,
rather
looking
at
long-term
changes,
which
again
is
a
bit
more
on
the
staff
side.
But
I
tried
enjoyed
this
as
well.
B
A
It's
good,
that's
good,
to
hear.
Thank
you
so
much
for
talking
to
me
I
think
it's
very
informative!
Thank
you.
So
much
for
for
sharing
all
of
your
experiences
today.
Sure.