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From YouTube: 2020-08-06 Engineering career framework discussion
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A
Well,
we
haven't
officially
met
our
exit
criteria.
A
B
A
There
was
you
know
like,
essentially
I
think
we
what
we've
done
is:
we've
described
a
bunch
of
behaviors
instead
of
competencies
or
outcomes
and
and
listening
to
behaviors
like
so
where
I
struggled
was
with
the
execution
of
of
of
rolling
this
out
from
a
team,
and
I
know
we,
we
deliberately
initially
said
that
this,
the
working
group
scope
is
not
to
to
create
a
toolkit
or
templates
for
people
to
use.
A
However,
one
after
the
exit
criteria
of
the
working
group
is
saying
that
you
know
like
what
we
defined
works
was
doing
up
doing
a
a
pilot
with
with
somebody
using
it
in
the
team
and
having
success
with
it.
I
don't
feel
we
can
accurately
say
that
with
pasta,
because,
for
instance,
I
haven't
rolled
this
out
with
my
team.
A
I
I
I
chose
not
to
because
it
was
not
because
I
had
confirmed
and
then
rose,
and
I
discussed
my
concerns
and
essentially
it's
it's
not
that
what
we
have
is
wrong,
it's
more
about
how
we
package
it.
A
That
is,
that
is
my
my
view.
We've
got
these
company-wide
value
and
remote
competencies,
and
then
we
have
behaviors
that
are
listed
underneath
them
as
an
example
of.
A
But
what
we
don't
have,
for
instance,
on
the
engineering
side
is,
is
the
the
competencies
with
the
behaviors
listed
as
examples
we
seem
to
have
more
just
behaviors
listed
without
the
competency
part,
and
that,
for
me,
was
was
was
one
of
my
concerns
around
the
you
know.
The
inconsistency
inconsistency
with
how
we,
how
the
the
the
rest
of
the
the
company
competencies
are
being
handled
with
some
weird
going
about
it,
and
also
there
was
just
an
enormous
amount
of
them
too
many
yeah.
A
Well,
yeah
rose,
and
I
discussed
that,
for
instance,
all
of
the
development
values
comp
behaviors
that
we
have.
You
know
I
actually
captured
in
the
the
company
values
now
because
they
use
the
development
values
as
a
baseline
to
work
with
originally
so
talking
about
taking
that
away,
and
so
I
think
we
probably
just
have
a
job
to
be
done
in
terms
of
grouping
what
we
have
right
now,
a
bit
better.
So
it
sounds.
It
sounds
trivial,
but
it
is.
A
It
is
actually
quite
important
from
a
practical
roller
point
of
view,
and
so
what
I
don't
think
is
that
we
need
massive
meetings
to
resolve
this.
This
is
all
stuff
that
can
be
done,
asynchronously
and-
and
we
can
work
on
that,
so
that
I
that
I
would
summarize,
as
the
state
of
play
in
my
mind
at
this
stage.
A
B
So
I'm
I'm
okay
with
that,
but
I
do
have
to
share
that.
I'm
I've
been
doing
something
a
bit
different
that
I'm
getting
ready
to
share
with
my
departments,
which
is,
I
spent
some
time
collecting
some
data
on
how
other
companies
are
doing
this.
I
kind
of
feel
we
missed
that
like
we
didn't
dedicate
that
much
time
to
do
that
and.
B
I
think
there
is
nothing
wrong
with
not
being
very
specific
about
this.
I
think
a
lot
of
these
things
can
be
achieved
by
training,
the
managers
and
the
team
not
to
have
like
already
prescribed
formula.
I
think
we're
a
bit
spoiled
in
engineering
at
this
company
that
everything
is
very
clearly
and
strictly
defined.
B
So
when
ambiguity
comes
in,
it
feels,
like
everyone,
just
gives
up
or
starts
struggling
rather
right,
because
we
are
so
clear
about
this
and
fortunately
or
unfortunately,
humans
are
not
straightforward
and
clear
right.
It's
not
yeah.
Okay!
Now
you
fulfill
this
and
you're
done
like
it
is
way
more
than
that
and
I'm
trying
to
not
yeah
not
set
expectations
that
this
is
going
to
be
a
magical
thing
that
people
will
be
able
to
just
follow
and
everything
is
going
to
be
great
and
done
like.
B
I
would
rather
roll
something
out
and
improve
it
over
time,
but
based
on
the
direction
we
set,
which
was
company
and
engineering,
values
or
competencies
that
we
expect
and
then
define
and
redefine
every
step
of
the
way.
Actually
right
like
it
feels
wrong.
But
if
you
keep
the
base
consistent
and
constant,
it's
not
going
to
feel
like
you're
changing
rules
while
playing
the
game.
B
That's
at
least
the
approach
that
I'm
I'm
taking
and
then
infrastructure
also
added.
This
is
an
okr,
so
we
are
going
to
be
driving
this
whole
thing
as
an
okr
discorder,
I'm
kind
of
I'm
wanting
to
approach
it
a
bit
that
way,
because
I
feel
like.
A
A
Yes,
and-
and
I
think
that
was
that
was
my
initial
takeaway
from
from
the
reaction
from
my
team
members
when
I
took
them
through
this-
it's
just
like
this
is
a
lot
and
then
I
I
actually
had
a
discussion
with
my
many
mentor
and
got
his
view
and,
and
they
have
this
very
similar
structure,
you
know
and-
and
I
discussed
it
with
frozen
on
the
call
and
but
what
it
comes
down
to,
is
that
the
amount
of
competencies
essentially
is
about
10
to
15
and
and
they
use
the
behaviors.
A
Just
as
examples
of
of
you
know
things
that
show
that
you
that
you're
competent
in
in
this
competency-
so
I
think
for
for
me
to
to
really
kind
of
like
put
a
bow
around
this
and
and
be
comfortable
with
moving
forward,
it's
more
just
a
cosmetic
exercise
of
grouping
things
a
bit
clearer
and
and
yeah
because,
for
instance,
I
looked
at
the
there
was
a
couple
of
I
don't
know.
A
I
actually
don't
have
a
spreadsheet,
but
I
think
I
mentioned
it
on
the
call
is
this:
I
think
it
was
around
being
a
mentor.
There
was
a
couple
of
behaviors
to
find
which,
which
actually
say
the
same
thing
in
a
way
but
yeah
just
slightly
different
and
and
and
I
guess
that
is
the
the
risk
you
have
when
you
kind
of
like
cascade
things
and
then
combine
them
so
yeah.
I
think
you
know
like
what
we
have.
I
I
believe
in.
I
don't
think
they
there's
anything
wrong
with
what
we
have.
B
In
the
in
the
agenda,
something
that
I
found
that
I
I
I
honestly
think
like
it's,
my
favorite
of
all
of
the
things
that
I
found
it's
how
patreon
does
engineering
leveling
and
when
I
read
this
and
when
I
write
like
the
interface
is
also
like
simple,
but
it's
also
nice
to
operate
in
when
I
read
this.
This
is
something
that
I
I
meant
immediately
thought
like.
B
B
Obviously
there
are
items
in
here
that
I
don't
really
agree
with,
like
it's,
not
a
silver
bullet.
Obviously,
but
it's
I
kind
of
use
it
as
a
guideline
as
well,
because
it's
so
well
presented.
B
B
If
I
fully
agree,
there
are
ways
of
saying
things
where
you
can
figure
out
whether
something
is
applicable
to
you
or
not
like
one
of
the
things
here
where
I
see
like,
for
example,
in
the
technical
competencies,
is
you
may
participate
in
alcohol
rotation
if
applicable,
for
their
domain
great
covers
everyone.
B
Different
levels
of
uncle
rotation,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
someone
carrying
a
pager.
It
can
be
right
like
that
escalation
we
have,
or
I
don't
know,
ux
is
triaging
something
or.
A
A
Yeah,
I
I
like
the
the
execution
they
have
here
and
especially
the
filtering.
You
know
to
be
able
to
to
kind
of
like
see
things
in
you
know
and
and
the
guidelines
how
they
I
you
know.
This
is
almost
what
I
feel
like
is
missing
from
from
our
final
output.
It's
just
that
the
packaging
of
how
and
and
and
some
guidelines
and
and
and
yeah
I
I
take
your
point.
You
know
like
it
just
because
we
didn't
package
it
and
and
didn't
kind
of
like
put
a
nice
bow
over.
A
My
my
kind
of
like
concern
was
just
like
people
know:
we've
been
working
on
this
and
they
might
be
underwhelmed
with
what
we
what
we
put
out,
if,
if
we
don't
communicate
it
properly
and
make
it
clear
and
we
might
end
up
with
something
that
is
more
confusing
and
and
people
are
less
you
know
specifically,
because
gitlab
is
such
a
specific
company
with
documenting
everything
clearly
and
so
on,
and
just
putting
like
from
from
the
behaviors
and
stuff
that
we've
defined,
I
certainly
believe,
they're
an
improvement
over
what
we
had.
B
B
But
that's
that's
not
so
that's
I
think
where
we
are
possibly
then
failing
from
the
start
like
we
should
have
either
made
a
decision
to
use
a
spreadsheet
and
say
that
everyone
has
to
use
a
spreadsheet
or
say
that
no
one
uses
a
spreadsheet
in
a
company
prescribed
way.
If
you
work
with
your
manager-
and
that
is
the
medium
you
want
to
use
to
track
your
career,
then
it's
perfectly
fine.
That's
why
I
also
kind
of
liked
your
proposal
from
couple
of
months
ago,
where
you
shared
the
epics
and
all
of
the
keyboard.
B
Yes,
because
that
should
be
known
to
everyone
in
the
company
right
like
it's
the
tool
that
we
all
use
day-to-day
and
then
the
argument
becomes
less
about
like
the
tooling
it
becomes
like.
How
do
we
make
the
tool
even
better
right,
but
right
now
we
are
like.
I
know
I
used
both
docks
and
sheets
and
one-on-one
docs
with
people
to
to
work
on
on
career
development
with
them
and
the
medium
got
adapted
to
the
people
right
like
not.
B
So
I
I
I.
B
Of
my
statements
before
like
when
I
said
we
don't
have
anything,
I
didn't
mean
that
I
meant
we
don't
have
anything
that
we
can
stand
behind
right
now
and
say
use
it,
because
we
are
in
this
in
between
state.
Everyone
knows
that
we
have
the
new
thing
coming
up.
The
old
thing
is
not
really
usable
anymore,
then,
so
we
are
now
in
this
vacuum.
So.
A
A
You
know
like
how
do
I
take
what
I
what
you
know
these
things,
and
how
do
I
execute
that
with
my
my
team
members
and
in
the
absence
of
having
that
you
know,
having
some
standard
thing
is:
is
a
good
thing
as
a
hey,
here's,
a
standard
approach
of
how
you
can
go
about
it.
If
you
don't
have
a
better
way
of
doing
it.
A
You
know
it's
not
a
one-size-fits-all
solution,
but
having
that
that
void,
almost
of
of
having
a
just
a
standard
thing
that
can
be
used,
I
think
I
almost
want
to
compare
it
to
the
the
compa
ratio
things
we
needed
to
do
last
year.
You
know
there
was
the
spreadsheet
that
you
could
use
as
if
you
wanted
to
it,
wasn't
mandatory,
but
you
could
use
it
and
at
least
it
gave
somebody
something
to
work
with
if
they
weren't
comfortable
or
confident
in
in
doing
something
different.
A
So
that
would
be
my
only
concern,
but
even
that
I
would
say
I
would.
I
would
be
comfortable
falling
back
to
the
let's
not
hold
on
to
something
forever
before
it's
perfect
kind
of
thing
and
put
it
out
there
and
keep
iterating
on
it.
A
B
Well,
you
yeah,
no,
that
that
that
is
a
very
valid
concern
and
with
I'm
there
with
you
100,
so
that
I
don't
even
want
to
spend
much
time
on
because
we're
in
agreement.
But
the
thing
that
you
said
earlier
about
and
having
varying
degrees
of
experience
in
management
is
not
the
problem
we
are
trying
to
resolve
here.
Right,
like
that,
problem
is
being
resolved
by
training
and
it's
being
resolved.
A
B
Training,
the
managers-
and
that
is
something
that
we
will
have
to
work
with,
rose
and
and
right,
like
the
training
team,
to
get
the
newer
managers
up
to
speed
or
retrain
the
existing
managers
to
use
a
certain
system
right
like
that
is
how
we
handle
that.
A
B
B
We
all
agree
on
the
company
level
competencies
we
all
agreed
on
the
engineering
level
base
competencies.
Why
don't
we
roll
that
out?.
B
B
Now
we
have
department
level
companies
like
ux
quality
right,
like
I'm
missing
this
part,
because
it's
really
important
for
my
job
and
that
can
be
added
over
time
again
like
as
long
as
we
manage
expectations,
I
feel
and
say
that
no
one
is
going
to
be
prevented
from
progressing
in
their
career,
because
this
is
not
a
promotion
document.
B
This
is
a
career
coaching
framework
right,
so
it's
fine
that
the
framework
continues
changing,
because
the
company
is
also
changing
and
like
that's
something
that
I
had
to
deal
with
multiple
times
when,
like
I
didn't
necessarily
agree
with
that
as
well,
but
eric
made
a
lot
of
good
points
about
well
growth
of
the
company
right
like
two
years
ago.
It's
not
the
same
as
now
and
in
a
month
it's
not
going
to
be
the
same
as
now.
So
the
one
thing
that
we
know
that
is
going
to
be
remain.
A
Yeah
I
I
can
get
behind
that.
I
think
we
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
on
the
engineering
level
stuff
and-
and
we
debated
that
a
lot-
and
I
don't
know,
I
don't
see
anybody
pushing
back
on
that.
I
would.
I
would
be
comfortable
with
that
as
well
and
and
I
I
I've
got
it
on
my
to-do
list-
to
keep
iterating
on
the
development
ones
and
and
put
it
put
something
together
and
then
mr
to
propose
putting
in
different
and-
and
that
might
be
be
the
way
to
go.
A
B
Yeah
and
then
we
can
see
like
as
we
go
along,
we
can
have
working
groups
that
are
focusing
on.
How
do
we
package
this
up?
Right,
like
we
want
to
make
this
look
pretty
as
well.
We
can
have
separate
working
groups
within
the
departments.
B
Right,
like
you
have
development
is
huge
and,
like
I
I
participate
in
this,
but
I
also
don't
want
to
participate
too
much
because
I'm
not
in
development,
and
even
though
I
have
opinions
I
haven't
been
living
in
development
for
over
a
year
now.
So
right
like
it's,
it's
it's
a
different
world
out
there,
so
that
could
be
like
a
smaller
subset,
because
we
bit
off
quite
a
big
problem
here
or
not
problem,
not
quite
a
big
challenge.
A
Yeah,
it's
a
big
and-
and
I
I
agree
with
you-
it
has
the
the
risk
of
dragging
on
and
not
getting
to
a
point
where
we
say:
hey,
there's
something
out
there.
That's
already
ready
to
be
used,
start
focusing
on
that
yeah.
B
And
that
we
can
also
like
that,
can
easily
be
tied
into
management
training
as
well,
because
that
is
some
again
like
we.
We
know
how
to
do
that
and
then
we're
gonna
start
seeing
well,
if
I
can't
figure
out
how
to
roll
out
the
company
competencies
company
level
competencies
with
the
tooling
I
have,
maybe
we
need
to
also
focus
on
the
tooling
to
make
that
quicker,
then
tweak
the
language
five
times
over
within
the
I
don't
know,
two
three
level
down
competencies.
A
All
right
we're
we're
essentially
at
time,
and
I
have
to
jump
to
another
meeting.
I
think
this.
This
sounds
good,
I
think,
as
facilitator,
we
probably
need
darva
to
to
watch
this
recording
when
she's
back
from
pto
and
we
need
our
executive
sponsor
to
to
kind
of
like
agree
with
this
as
well.
So
I
think
we
can
carry
this
kind
of
like
suggestion
over
to
to
next
week
and
bring
it
to
diver's
attention
to
to
have
a
look
and
then
you
know
hopefully
decide
russ.
I
think.
A
It's
just,
I
think
it's
engineering,
engineering,
career
matrices,
I'll
update
the
link
yeah
thanks.
No,
it's
oh,
no,
wait,
yeah
and
then
the
link.
B
I
shared
on
the
engineering
matrix
is
that's
the
one
which.
B
B
Cool
so
yeah,
I
would
love
for
for
the
two
of
them
to
check
it
out
and
see
what
they
think
about
the
suggestion
and
I'm
happy
to
hear
a
new
one.
I
just
don't
want
to
spend
six
next
six
months
tweaking
language
when
we
have
a
lot
of
work
to
do.