►
From YouTube: Pedro Moreira da Silva talks about navigating the IC career path in UX | GitLab Design Talks
Description
Pedro Moreira da Silva and Rayana Verissimo talk about design, leadership, and career development at GitLab. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-design/-/issues/1545
A
B
A
B
B
It
was
like
an
eye-opener
also
because
I
had
to
contact
a
lot
with
people
that
were
not
educated
as
as
much
as
the
internal
team
on
technology,
on
design
on
people
and
and
how
you
bring
all
of
that
together
with
the
business,
and
so
it
was.
It
was
a
great
position
to
be
in
and
learn
a
lot
about
different
industries,
different
sizes,
different
kinds
of
technologies
and,
at
the
same
time,
I
was
invited
to
give
some
lectures
at
a
local
school
digital
school
here
in
lisbon,
and
that
was
a
great
experience.
B
I
love
that
trying
to
explain
what
you
have
learned
for
many
many
years
to
to
and
to
teach
them
to
someone
who's
straight
out
of
college
or
changing
their
background.
Like
I
had
people
who
were
lawyers,
but
they
didn't
want
to
be
lawyers
anymore,
so
they
wanted
to
become
front-end
developers
or
people
that
had
lost
touch
with
front-end
development
and
wanted
to
learn
it
again
and
in
that
class
I
was
teaching
just
the
basics
of
user
experience,
which
is
very
broad.
B
B
I
I
knew
that
I
wanted
to
go
back
to
my
roots,
working
at
a
startup
and
I
wanted
to
focus
on
a
single
product
and
nurture
it
so,
and
I
also
wanted
to
work
remotely
for
many
different
reasons,
and
so
I
was
fortunate
enough
to
end
up
at
gitlab,
and
I've
been
here
for
four
years
now
and
it's
been
an
amazing
ride.
So
far,.
A
A
B
B
They
were
very
demanding
about
the
presentation
skills
and
how
you
presented
your
work
and
especially
how
you
linked
your
decisions
to
to
whatever
you
did
and
so
explain
all
of
the
rationale
and,
at
the
same
time,
they
give
a
sense
of
empowerment
so
that
each
student
could
try
to
influence
others,
colleagues
to
in
in
the
job
and
in
the
work
that
they
were
doing.
So
that
was
one
of
the
first
things,
and
it
was
very,
very
encouraged
that
kind
of
of
attitude
in
the
class.
B
What
sorry?
What
good
user
experience
is
so
in
specifically,
as
I
said,
dealing
with
clients
directly
and
and
helping
them
understand
why
this
was
good
and
how
you
could
link
that
to
the
outcomes
that
they
wanted,
but
also
leading
teams
that
were
made
of
front-end
developers
and
back-end
developers
and
junior
designers
to
understand
exactly
what
was
their
direction
that
we
wanted
with
the
project
and
from
a
design
point.
What
was
the
theme
and
how
that
could
influence
all
of
the
technical
and
design
decisions?
B
So
I
think
it
was
a
mix
of
empowering
teams
to
make
decisions
on
their
own
and
to
feel
better
about.
They
were
what
they
were
doing,
because
I
think
design
has
a
lot
of
strength
in
that
in
in
adding
value
and
purpose
to
what
we're
doing
I
think
design
is,
is
a
really
good
tool
for
that
and
at
the
same
time
it
was
the
education
and
not
only
in-house,
but
also
with
the
clients
and
then,
as
I
said
before,
when
working
in
the
digital
school.
B
I
I
had
the
pleasure
to
do
that
and
after
that,
I've
been
invited
to
many
different
conferences
and
events,
and
it's
always
great
to
share
whatever
it
is
and
try
to
to
share
and
teach
others,
but
also
to
learn
from
their
own
experience.
So
I
think
yeah
it's
a
mix
of
many
different
things,
but
I
realized
that
in
the
end
for
me,
it
was
all
about
seeing
yeah.
This
might
sound
a
bit
cheesy,
but
it's
about
seeing
others
happy.
A
A
So
that
means,
I
think,
stuff
means
that
you
have
to
be
confident
about
seeing
a
problem
and
fixing
it,
but
also
leading
through
inspiration
right
doing
what
you
have
to
do
with
confidence
that
people
will
follow
that
you
can
inspire,
but
also
help
people
grow
their
skills,
help
people
fix
problems,
help
people,
people
find
solutions
to
broader
problems
within
an
organization,
and
that
kind
of
takes
me
to
to
my
next
question
about
what
do
you
actually
do?
What
is
your
role
today
at
gitlab?
What
does
a
staff
product
designer
yeah.
B
The
good
news
is
that
this
week
or
you
know
last
week
I
got
the
news
that
we
in
my
product
area
code
review
sunyung.
She
is
a
designer
from
another
area
of
the
product
and
she
would
be
on
a
temporary
grant
on
our
team
and
working
with
us
in
partnership
for
three
months,
and
I
hope
that
this
will
give
me
a
bit
more
time
to
work
on
those
responsibilities
and
flex,
my
staff,
muscles
and
but
yeah
today.
What
I
would
say
to
directly
answer
your
question.
B
It's
a
mix
of
many
things
and
I
have
to
balance
the
milestone
work
so
working
on
things
that
will
be
will
be
released
on
the
next
version
of
gitlab.
So
those
commitments
that
we
know
are
always
there
also
working
on
more
strategic
things.
But
what
I've
tried
to
do
more
and
more
as
I've
been
promoted
to
staff
is
think
about
what
are
the
things
that
I
can
help.
B
My
team,
the
ux
department
and
the
whole
product
team
to
work
better
and
to
use
the
design
better,
basically
and
also
being
more
participative
in
design
reviews
and
giving
feedback
to
designers
and
making
sure.
I'm
aware
of
what
everyone
is
doing,
which
is
a
daunting
task,
of
course,
but
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
that
we
need
to
do
as
staff
is
to
be
aware
of
what's
happening
and
try
to
create
bridges
between
people
and
connect.
B
People
and
also
another
thing
that
I'm
very
aware
of,
and
I'm
trying
to
do
more
and
more
is
try
to
give
to
everyone
good
examples
of
of
what
I
believe
is
good
ways
of
working
as
a
designer,
and
that
might
come
for
me.
But
of
course
I
try,
first
and
foremost
to
look
at
others
and
try
to
find
examples
like
you,
ryana
and
others
like.
B
A
I
think
this
is
something
that
it's
so
impo
important
to
empower
our
teams
to
learn
by
examples,
not
just
lead
by
examples,
but
learn
from
what
other
designers
are
doing
in
other
areas
of
the
product,
how
they
communicate
right
with
their
counterparts,
how
they
break
problems
into
smaller,
achievable
pieces
of
designs
that
can
be
delivered
and
developed
to
a
team.
So
I
think,
as
it's
important
to
have
like
you
as
a
staff
product
designer
kind
of
the.
A
B
Yeah
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
say
is,
for
example,
I
mean
what
what
you're
doing
now,
guyana,
you're
you're
one
of
the
staff
product
designers
and
the
very
this
very
project
of
this
leader.
These
ux
leadership
talks
of
talking
with
other
designers
and
other
ics
that
were
promoted
and
that
made
their
their
way
into
leadership.
B
It's
also
one
of
the
ways
of
helping
the
design
team
and
others
and
empower
them,
because
if
anything,
it
will
clarify
their
questions
and
clarify
what
they
want
and
where
they
should
go
next
and
what
the
shape
they
should
work
on
in
their
growth
plan.
So
I
think
that's
also
a
great
example
of
what
I
would
expect
the
staff
product
designer
to
do.
A
Yeah
and
then
let's
enter
into
that
part
of
the
conversation
right
about
leadership
and
exemplifying
that
we
know,
and
we
recognize
that
not
everyone
wants
to
advance
more
in
their
career
in
terms
of
seeking
a
higher
or
level
right
in
their
role.
So
not
everyone
wants
to
become
a
staff
or
a
manager,
and
we
as
an
organization.
We
have
a
lot
of
opportunities,
but
also
frameworks
that
can
help
ics
to
either
create
more
exposure
or
get
involved
with
other
areas
right
of
the
product.
A
B
How
connected
is
someone
with
that
part
of
them?
That
is
a
leader
and,
of
course,
leadership.
It
only
happens
if
people
see
the
leader
in
you,
if
people
see
that
you
are
an
example
or
that
you
can
be
the
channel
through
where
so
through
which
examples
flow,
and
for
me,
the
the
leadership
part
just
came
out
naturally,
and
I
had
throughout
the
time
I've
been
at
kit
lab.
B
For
me,
I
feel
like
I
want
to
spend
more
time
in
the
helping
parts
and
empowering
others
and
trying
to
give
them
great
examples
of
how
to
work
better
together
than
in
the
more
detailed
work
in
solving
all
of
those
more
detailed
problems,
because
in
the
end
it's
still
problem
solving
and
I
still
want
to
be
attached
to
the
craft.
But
I
think
more
and
more,
I
want
to
lean
more
towards
that
part.
I
don't
know
if
that
answers
your
question.
It.
B
Yeah
great
question:
I
definitely
it's
more
of
a
fluid
trajectory
and
and
that's
why
I
think
for
me
it
was
a
very
natural
thing
because
it
was
aligned
with
with
who
I
am
basically
it's.
It's
not
like
it's
not
like.
I
come
here
and
I
I
put
on
a
costume
and
okay.
Now,
I'm
I'm
better
the
staff
designer
it's
also
about.
I
think
the
way,
the
way
you
you
live
right.
I
think
someone
who
is
a
manager,
a
people
manager.
B
B
I
can't
pinpoint
something
specifically,
but
at
the
same
time
I
have
to
admit
that
over,
like
maybe
the
recent
more
recent
two
years
or
so,
I've
been
more
focused
on
my
own
learning
and
self
development
and
trying
to
create
more
time
for
reflection
more
time
for
reading
and
things
like
because
it
was.
I
was
being
caught
up
a
lot
in
the
work
that
we're
doing
here
were
things
that
were
happening
in
my
life.
So
I
didn't
have
time
to
focus
on
that
and
I
didn't
specifically
pursue
resources
that
taught
about
design
leadership.
B
Basically,
and
and
that's
why
I
try
to
do
more
and
more,
of
course,
there's
some
formal
or
more
specific
education
and
resources
about
design
leadership.
For
example.
Right
now,
I'm
reading
a
book
called
org
or
design
for
design
orgs.
I
think
that's
the
correct
title
and
it
talks
about
a
lot
of
this
that
we're
discussing
not
only
the
leadership.
But
how
do
you
structure
teams
and
how
do
you
create
the
ideal.
B
B
B
A
Also
from
the
same
opinion-
and
I
think
there
are
certain
number
of
skills
that
you
already
mentioned-
for
example,
the
communication
right
being
able
to
defend
your
designs-
be
able
to
sell
design,
be
able
to
bridge
gaps
with
a
in
a
team
or
in
an
organization.
They
are
important
not
just
in
design
leadership
but
in
design
in
general.
But
I
wanted
to
know
from
you
just
you
can
just
pinpoint
some
specific
skills.
B
A
B
B
But
the
the
key
thing
that
I
want
to
extract
from
here
would
be
to
look
at
areas
in
the
team.
So
that
would
be
your
the
you,
the
ux
team,
where
you
can
spot
some
gaps
in
skills
where,
like
we're
lacking
people
that
know
about
accessibility
or
we're
lacking
people
that
know
about
visual
design
or
that
like
about
specific
ux
research
methodology
or
this
or
that
and
try
to
be
try
to
see.
B
It's
seeing
that
overlap
of
needs
for
skills
and
the
passion-
and
I
think,
in
this
case
jeremy,
with
the
accessibility
example
is,
is
he
ends
up
being
a
leader
in
that
in
that
area?
So
that's
one
way
of
exemplifying
while
being
an
ic
right.
I
don't
know
if
jeremy
he
has
the
expectation
or
the
motivation
to
become
a
staff
product
designer,
but
even
being
an
ic
as
a
senior.
I
see
him
as
a
leader
of
accessibility
because
he
champions
accessibility
in
our
company.
A
A
Aspect
of
design
leadership
that
is,
finding
your
brand
right
finding
who
you
are
inside
an
organization,
so
I
agree
with
you,
like
jeremy
accessibility.
I
also
think
of
jeremy
ui
design,
I
think
of
jeremy
right.
So,
for
example,
when
I
think
about
structure
organization
communication,
I
think
of
pedro,
if
I
think
about
research,
I
think
of
laurie.
So
there
are
some
aspects-
and
I
think
that's
also
the
beauty
of
our
organization
that
we,
yes,
we
we
do
get
mostly.
B
A
Your
path
in
your
organization,
towards
that
not
necessarily
thinking
yeah
the
only
way
to
go,
is
to
become
a
manager
or
is
to
become
staff
designer
you
create
so
much
impact
in
your
stage
group
and
in
your
with
your
strategy
counterparts
with
the
stage
groups
around
you
when
you
become
a
leader
as
a
designer
in
whatever
level
of
the
organization.
So
I
think
you
touched.
B
Yeah,
the
the
second
thing
I
I
just
thought
about,
and
you
were
just
we're
discussing
the
the
brands
and
making
that
shine.
I
think
that's
one
of
the
other
things
that
perhaps
most
designers
don't
do,
and
I
mean
one
of
the
reasons
because
they're
always
on
swimming
in
in
work,
but
it's
making
your
work
visible,
and
we
have.
B
I
mean
everything
that
we
need
at
gitlab,
we're
very
fortunate
about
the
way
we
work,
which
helps
do
that
doing
that
much
more
than
any
other
company.
I've
worked
with,
because
we
write
everything
down.
We
record
videos,
we
we
have
artifacts
and
breadcrumbs
of
everything
that
we
do
so
it's
much
easier,
still
difficult,
but
it's
much
easier
to
collect
everything
and
make
a
case
for
hey.
B
I'm
doing
this
like
this
or
do
you
think
this
is
a
good
example
or
this
or
that
so
I
think
most
of
the
times
people
could
be
leaders
or
exempt
or
exemplify
certain
responsibilities
or
disciplines
very
well,
but
they
just
haven't
stopped
to
think.
Well.
What
am
I
doing?
Well,
that
I
can
share
with
others
and
take
the
time
to
stop
and
find
the
best
medium
formats
to
share
it.
A
Yeah,
finding
the
focus
time
for
that
as
well.
I
think
we
we
get
we
get
caught
in
the
trap
of
working
on
deliverables
or
sometimes
being
the
you
know,
the
results
too
much
results,
oriented
and
not
do
like
what
you
you
mentioned
a
couple
of
minutes
ago
about
taking
the
time
to
reflect
on
my
achievements,
who
I
am.
Where
do
I
want
to
get?
A
What
else
do
I
need
to
learn
and
that's
also
part
of
the
process,
because
as
much
as
we
are
here,
of
course,
to
perform
and
do
well
at
simplifier
values,
etc?
We
are
also
here
to
develop
ourselves
right
inside
this
organization
as
designers
as
people
and
taking
the
time
indeed
to
document
things
and
to
help
others.
A
I
think
that's
also
key
to
success,
like
you
mentioned
before,
about
your
role
as
staff
designer
what
you
do
on
a
day-to-day
basis,
it's
to
facilitate
right
growth,
and
we
can
do
that
when
we
are
transparent,
but
also
when
we
proactively
create
these
opportunities
to
share.
I
would
say
not
only
the
good
things
of
what
went
well,
but
also
the
challenges
right
and
what
you've
learned
from
the
the
experience
and
the
processes
that
didn't
work
so
well.
So
I'll
give
an
example.
A
A
B
B
Yeah
there
are
other
two
things.
That'll
be
brief,
that
that
come
to
mind,
one
is
linked
to
what
you
just
said
that
I
think
is
also
being
the
trail
blazers,
so
the
people
that
are
leading
charge
and
going
where
nowhere,
no
one,
no
one
has
gone
before,
and
that's
one
of
the
examples
we
some.
We
had
never
done
that
initiative,
the
ux
scorecards,
so
the
first
people
that
did
it.
They
were
leaders
there
and
they
were
giving
the
examples
of
hey
this
works.
It
doesn't
work.
We
can
make
this
better.
B
So
if
you
feel
swamped
and
if
you
feel
like
hey
this
is
something
we
should
do,
but
I
don't
have
the
time
or
maybe
I
don't
have
the
passion.
Let
me
see,
who
is
the
person
who
might
have
the
passion
to
do
this
and
that
act
of
giving
work
to
others
or
not
not
necessarily
giving?
But
you
know
what
I
mean
like
saying:
hey
I
have
this.
Do
you
want
to
take
it?
Is
this
something
that
you
that
aligns
with
what
you
want?
A
B
That's
the
main
difference
is:
what
do
you
want?
You
want
to
be
always
in
the
leadership
track
and
you're
being
oriented
to
results.
Are
the
results
the
to
you,
the
multiplication
of
the
well-being
and
the
effectiveness
of
others?
Or
do
you
want
to
work
more
on
the
craft
and
the
results
to
you?
Are
shipping
things
and
reaching
the
outcomes
as
close
to
the
user
as
possible?
So
I
think
those
are
the
two
levels
that
people
need
to
think
about
when
you're.
A
That's
a
great
example
of
you
know:
ics
learning
becoming
experts
in
a
specific
area
of
the
product
so
that
they
can
help
other
people
succeed
and
get
more
involved
in
a
certain
part
of
product,
so,
for
example,
as
a
trainee
maintainer
or
as
a
buddy.
What
we
do
is
to
find
these
opportunities
find
merge,
requests
or
issues.
That
would
be
interesting
for
the
trainee
right
to
exemplify
results,
to
exemplify
leadership,
exemplify
expertise
in
the
certain
pajamas,
that's
delegation
right
so
or
a
numbers
request
or
an
issue
when
we
ping
people.
A
B
A
B
Exactly
yeah-
and
I
I
suffer
from
that,
like
it's,
it's
critical,
it's
it's,
I'm
so
bad
at
delegating
and
I'm
trying
to
do
that
more
because
it's,
I
also
don't
think
it's
a
natural
thing,
or
at
least
from
like,
where
I
come
from
here
in
portugal,
the
culture
that
we
have
the
education.
It's
not
usually
like
asking
for
help-
and
maybe
I
don't
know
if
it's
the
same
where
you
come
from
or
other
places
in
the
world,
but
here
in
portugal
the
education
is
very
much
about.
B
Like
you
have
the
tests,
you
have
the
exams,
you
have
the
learning
and
it's
you
it's
your
answers.
You
can't
like
one
of
the
things
I
I
think
it's
it's
it's
interesting
to
think
about
is,
like
students
are
penalized
for
cheating
or
copying
each
other's
work
and
well
to
a
certain
extent.
I
agree
with
that.
That
also
creates
the
culture
of
not
asking
for
help
or
trying
always
to
be
original
and
trying
to
do
things
your
own
way
exactly.
B
That
is
very
different
from
others,
and
I
think
that
penalizes
a
little
bit
like
the
asking
for
help
and
also
delegating
work
to
others
and
sharing
work
with
others.
So
I
think
it's
a
cultural
thing
and
for
me
it's
very
difficult
and
it's
not
the
first
thing
that
comes
to
mind
when,
when
I'm
working,
but
I'm
very
fortunate
by
president
marcel,
my
manager
he's,
I
think
more
recently,
because
he
knows
of
all
of
the
workflow
that
I
have
he's
more
acute
to
that.
B
So
his
sense
of
delegation
is
a
bit
more
open
and
he
clearly
flags
things
and
said
pedro.
This
is
a
great
idea
and
you
would
be
great
doing
it,
but
maybe
this
person
or
or
this
initiative
is
more
worthy
of
your
time
and
you
will
be
better
doing
it.
So
why
not
delegate
it
to
someone
else
and
think
who
that
might
be
or.
A
A
Yeah
for
sure-
and
it's
something
that
my
experience
of
course
I'll
say
it
takes
time
to
learn
right
and
when
we,
when
we
learn
the
delegation,
it
would
be
uncomfortable.
I
think
especially
right
now,
I'm
acting
manager
right.
So
I
see
things
and
I'm
like.
Oh,
my
goodness,
I
could
be
actually
doing
that
or
solving
these
problems.
A
I
think
delegation.
If
we
had
more
time
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that,
but
I
think
it
would
always
be
uncomfortable
because
it
puts
you
in
a
position
where
you
have
to
have
trust
without
little
context
right
from
the
other
person,
but
also
yourself.
You
have
to
trust
that
something
is
going
to
come
out
of
that,
knowing
that
you
cannot
control
the
situation
you're
there
to
support
it
comes
with
time.
It's
uncomfortable.
B
Yeah
yeah
related
to
that,
and-
and
I
want
I
want
to
be
along
about
this-
but
another
related
to
that
is
something
I've
been
reading
about.
Recently-
is
the
constraints
and
leading
and
giving
some
direction
and
delegating
without
giving
too
much
too
many
constraints,
because
that
would
that
would
not
leave
it
open
for
creativity
and
for
people
to
explore
the
problems
based
on
their
own,
but
also
you
can't.
A
A
B
Oh
wow
yeah,
I
so
many
so
delegation,
as
I
said,
is
one
of
them.
I
really
want
to
do
that
more
because
I'm
more
happy
when
I
see
when
I
help
others
succeed,
then
when
I
succeed
myself
and
again
this
this
may
sound
incredibly
cheesy,
but
that's
that's
genuinely
how
I
feel
and
think
and
other
aspects
that
I
want
to
learn
more
about.
Is
this
aspect
of
direction
so
constrains
no
constraints?
What
is
the
right
balance?
B
I
mean-
and
we
have
great
examples
of
that.
Another
example
of
great
leadership
in
that
front
is
ian
camacho,
with
the
think
big
sessions
that
he
has
been
running
and
all
of
the
that
thought
leadership
that
he's
been
sharing
there.
I
think
that's
a
great
way
to
make
teams
work
better
together
towards
shared
outcomes
and
have
a
more
design
centric,
not
designed
in
the
terms
of
visual
design
or
activities,
but
design
in
are
we
are
we
solving
the
right
problem
and
are
we
solving
it
right
so
that
kind
of
process?
B
That's
what
I'm
really
interested
in
learning
more
about,
and
it
might
not
seem
like
if
what
I'm
saying
doesn't
sound
sexy
to
you
or
appealing.
It's
probably
because
you
don't
you
don't
need
to
become
a
stat
product
designer
or
maybe
you
have
other
ways
of
of
looking
at
what
a
staff
product
designer
is
because
it's
it
can
be
very
different.
But
that's
what
I'm
trying
to
learn
more
about.