►
Description
Nick and Pedro sit down for a discussion on GitLab's value of iteration and what it means for design.
Read more about iteration in our handbook: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/values/#iteration
A
B
Yeah,
that's
a
big
question.
Yeah
thanks.
First
of
all,
thank
you
for
having
me
and
yeah
hearing
my
I
think
rants
about
iteration
at
gitlab,
no,
I'm
just
kidding,
but
I
think
so
what
does
iteration
mean
at
gitlab?
I
think
what
summarizes
is
best
is
putting
something
out
there,
even
if
you
feel
embarrassed
about
it.
B
I
think
it's
a
good
way
to
summarize
how
we
do
iteration
in
every
aspect
of
the
company,
not
only
products
and
and
sometimes-
and
I
think
I
know-
that's-
probably
something
that
we'll
touch
on
later.
It
has
a
very
big
impact
on
the
user
experience
shipping,
something
that
we
are
kind
of
embarrassed
about
we're
not
very
comfortable,
but
that
maybe
users
are
also
kind
of
embarrassed
to
see
that
experience
in
the
product
that
they're
paying
for
and
and
so
it's
hard
to
manage.
B
B
This
is
what
we're
going
to
do
during
this
time
and
if
we
want
to
iterate
on
that,
you
have
to
be
very
careful
because
you
know
you
have
that
due
date,
when
you
need
to
deliver
the
project,
so
you
can
do
some
iteration
inside
of
it.
But
it's
it's
yeah!
It's
it's
not
a
it's,
not
a
real
iteration
in
the
sense
of
what
we
do
at
good
lab
that
we
know
we
can
always
perfect
things
and
improve
them
over
time,
based
on
what
we
learned.
B
The
point
of
what
would
be
something
valuable
and
maybe
we
need
to
stop
doing
this
process
of
just
going
down
and
then
making
things
smaller
and
just
ship.
This
thing
that
we've
already
decided
is
valuable
and
I
I
suffer
from
that.
Every
time
I'm
looking
at
issues
and
and
even
merge
requests.
How
can
we
break
this
and
induce
other
things
later,
but
it's
a
vicious
cycle.
I
think
we
can.
You
can
be
in
that
forever.
It's
like
perfecting
and
shaping
and
polishing
something.
B
So
it's,
I
think,
there's
also,
and
I
don't
think
we
we
talk
a
lot
about
that,
but
there's
also
the
danger
of
perfectionism
in
iteration
in
the
iteration
process
and
when
we
try
to
be
perfectionists
in
the
duration
process
like
iteration
is
what
we
do.
We
have
iteration
office
hours
where
sid
our
ceo
and
some
other
folks
join
to
help
with
the
iteration
and
and
there's
there.
B
I
think,
there's
a
line
where
we
have
to
cross
and
say
now
we'll
stop
here,
we're
not
going
to
iterate
more
on
this
or
we're
not
going
to
break
this
down
into
smaller
pieces
yeah.
How
about
you
how
as
a
more
recent
git
lab
or
team
member,
how
did
you,
how
did
iteration
at
gitlab
impact
your
your
work,
yeah.
A
That's
that's
a
good
question.
I
I
think
you
bring
up
like
a
really
important
point.
I'm
I'm
definitely
a
recovering
perfectionist,
so
so
dealing
with
dealing
with
iteration,
to
the
extent
that
git
lab
does
iteration
has
actually
been
been
been
a
pretty
big
learning
for
me
and
I
think
the
biggest
insight
that
I
got
from
it
has
been
around
our
relationship
with
uncertainty.
A
A
B
Yeah,
I
I
actually,
I
think
I
would
like
I
mean
I
could
talk
about
it,
but
I
actually
would
like
for
you
to
talk
about
it
first,
because
I
mean
I,
I
kind
of
stole
it
from
not
necessarily
from
you,
because
this
this
this
these
words
and
and
the
way
of
phrasing.
This
come
from
many
different
places
and
and
just
yesterday,
danielle
grewes
of
the
product
manager
for
source
code.
He
was
also
looking
at
this
sign
and
he
said.
B
Oh
at
my
previous
company
t-mobile,
we
had
someone
there
who
tried
to
push
for
this
mentality,
but
that
person
used
the
words,
think
big
act,
small
and
and
and
and
in
terms
of
conciseness
and
also
being
more
generic
and
not
using
the
verb
ship.
I
actually
prefer
act,
small,
I
think,
that's
really
powerful,
and
today
I
discovered
that
there's
not
only
we
have
there's
a
book
called
think
big
start
small
move
fast,
there's
one
that
just
called
think
big
act,
small,
so
there's
a
lot
of
variations
to
this.
B
A
Sure
so
I
think
one
of
the
key
responsibilities
of
of
a
designer
is
to
be
able
to
zoom
in
and
out
of
a
problem
and
only
by
zooming
into
the
details
and
then
zooming
out
to
the
broader
picture
of
how
the
thing
you're
designing
fits
into
the
problem
space
in
the
solution
space.
Are
you
able
to
find
like
the
optimal
balance
between
whatever
it
is
that
you're
designing
for
so
when,
when
we
ship
small?
A
So,
although
the
the
thing
you're
shipping
is
embarrassingly
small,
it
also
fits
into
a
broader
picture
of
of
something
that
you're
trying
to
achieve.
So
that's
why
I
think
the
the
whole
think
big
small
move
fast
comes
into
play.
Is
that
you're
you're
thinking
about
trying
to
tackle
something
big
but
you're,
being
practical
and
you're
being
realistic,
with
how
you're
actually
going
about
shipping
it,
which
I
think
is,
is
a
good
way
of
going.
B
Yeah
exactly
yeah,
if
you
don't
mind,
I'm
going
to
share
the.
I
think.
It's
a
great
metaphor,
I'm
going
to
share
what
I
showed
in
the
last
ux
showcase,
where
we
were
talking
about
iteration
on
one
of
the
features
that
we're
developing
in
our
the
product
area:
source
code
and
yeah.
It's
it's
this
painting!
A
B
It
was
took
two
years
to
create
by
george
silva
and
it's
called
a
sunday
afternoon
on
the
island
of
lagrange
and
he
basically
iterated
on
top
of
this
painting.
So
he
created
multiple
ideas,
sketches
and
different
mockups
before
arriving
here
and
to
focus
both
on
the
details
as
well
as
the
big
picture.
It
was
a
requirement
because
he
was
using
a
technique
called
pointillism
that
only
uses
very
small
colored
dots
and
no
brush
strokes.
So
every
time
he
was
putting
like
a
small
colored
dot
every
time
he
was
shipping
small
things.
B
A
B
B
We
dedicate
enough
time
to
take
a
step
back
and
look
at
something
and
plan
it
well
or
as
with
the
level
of
fidelity
or
detail
as
necessary,
before
going
in
and
trying
to
do
something
and-
and
I
think
we
all
often
talk
about
hey-
we
will
ship
something
small,
we'll
learn
from
it
and
we'll
adapt
the
road
map,
and
that
is.
That
is
true.
I
think
we
do
that
to
a
certain
extent,
but
there's,
I
think,
two
problems
with
that.
B
Maybe
they
don't
fit
well
together
or
even
well
with
other
iterations
that
have
been
done
in
parallel
by
the
same
team
or
by
other
teams,
so
that
I
think
that
is
seeing
the
forest
and
then
like
a
bundle
and
a
group
board
for
forests
and-
and
I
think
the
learning
part
should
inform
not
only
the
iteration
that
we're
going
to
do
next,
but
also
the
bigger
plan.
So
I
think
the
think
big
could
be
seen
as
a
something
something
detrimental
to
our
iteration
value,
because
we
we
don't
make
big
plans.
B
We
just
do
small
things
and
we
go
along
with
the
flow,
but
I
actually
think
that
if
we
see
the
forest
we
try
to
sketch
out
a
plan,
it
will
allow
us
to
iterate
better
going
forward
and
at
least
if
not,
if
I
think
the
best
argument
for
this,
if
not
for
design
or
product
management
is
for
engineering.
Because
I
hear
engineers
a
lot
talking
about
like
the
second
on
the
second
and
third
iteration.
B
They
say,
oh
if
we
knew
that
we
would
be
going
in
this
direction
somehow,
and
we
had
like
an
idea.
Even
if
it
was
just
some
clues,
we
would
have
designed
a
different
architecture
for
the
code
or
the
system
or
whatever
it
is,
and
now
we
will
have
to
refactor
all
of
that,
so
that
we
can
iterate
better
in
the
future,
and
that
to
me
is
a
sign
of
not
taking
a
step
back,
but
also
in
terms
of
transparency
and
collaboration.
But
those
are
other
concerns.
A
Sometimes
you
can
take
two
steps
forward
in
terms
of
where
you're
going
and
then
one
step
back
to
make
it
even
smaller,
and
that
helps
to
set
the
context
a
little
bit
more
towards
that
bigger
picture
that
you're
talking
about.
But
that's
that's
all.
We've
got
time
for
today.
Do
you
want
to
leave
us
with
any
sort
of
closing
thoughts
about
our
value
of
iteration.
B
Yeah,
I
think
I
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
I
deeply
appreciate
the
these
conversations
that
you're
trying
to
have
nick,
I
think,
they're,
really
valuable
and
in
terms
of
the
iteration
and
the
values
that
we're
talking
about
here,
I
think
they
apply
not
only
to
design
but
to
product.
I
think
product
management
and
design
are
so
linked
together
in
these
values
and
in
doing
going
through
the
iteration
process
that
I
think,
product
management
having
their
voices
heard
and
also
sharing
this
with
them
would
be
really
valuable.