GitLab Learning & Development, 20 Aug 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Career Conversations with your Team Members with Jane Gianoutsos

Description

In this interview, Jacie Bandur on the Learning & Development Team interviews Jane Gianoutsos, Manager, Support Engineering (APAC) to learn more about having career conversations with her team members.

A

Hi, I'm jc bander on the learning and development team and I'm joined by jane gian newt, sis manager, support engineering aipac here at gitlab and today we're going to be talking about career development as a manager and how you have those conversations with your team members. So jane. Could you start off by telling us how you approach career development conversations with your team members yeah.

B

Sure thing I um I I try to make this a really natural part about one-to-ones right from the start of my relationship with my team members. So uh when they start I've got a template one-to-one document that I start them all off with, and that includes a list of things that the onboarding issue asks managers to cover um and some pointers that I like to give people when they first start so that I remember to give people all those pointers.

B

But in there I also include a section- that's titled within the first three months, and this is all about career development. So I include some links in there to some useful templates that we have and support around both thinking about career development, but also for keeping track of your work.

B

So things where you've got thanks in the thanks channel or you've done a really great job and got some amazing feedback from the customer or some some debugging that you've worked on and it just it makes it much easier if people do decide to do a path to promotion later filling in their promo. Docs is so much easier when they've been recording it.

B

As they go right from the start, um so when we talk through this during that first three months, the conversation- it's really different for every person for some people, they come in with a really clear view of where they're heading they've probably already read the career path. Sections on the handbook and they've even asked questions about the career path.

B

In the interview for some others being a get lab may be the very first time that they've ever really deeply considered their personal and career development, and this will be very much a discovery journey for both them and me so so this is to explore and understand what they're passionate about what inspires them and also what's demotivating for them, because that's for some people, that's never been something they've had the space or the invitation to even think about or explore, um and as people progress in that journey, I find yes, the conversation changes, but what doesn't change is that it's always really different for every single person, so yeah.

A

Yeah, that's great! So how often are you having career development conversations with your team members.

B

I I do try to make sure that we at least touch base on it at least quarterly in reality, though, it's much more often than that, um but not necessarily like a full conversation about right. What's your career plan, where are you at what's going on, um but it's not just checking in on how people are doing on the practical things like? How are you getting on scheduling time for training? How are you doing finding other people to learn with, or even just me taking a little moment to go?

B

Oh that's a ticket that they're learning about. Let me share that with them and go hey. You might be interested in following this or an article that I read that I got. I know this is something this person's really interested in and sharing that with them um and I'll share that async and then sometimes we'll we'll have a chat about it during the one to one um I for some team members, they can face quite a barrier to their career development and their own self-doubt.

B

So, and I can fully relate to that- that's something that I've wrestled with my entire life. I wouldn't even just say my career, um but with those people we definitely talk about development as a regular topic, but with me more in the role of coach and cheerleader, so pointing out evidence of their strengths and skills, you know hey. Did you see how?

B

Well you did that and and all the feedback you got on that um connecting their self-reported successes, which they usually put in their one-to-ones with earlier statements that they've made about not being good enough or not knowing something and just inviting them to pause and reflect on that and celebrate their success and learnings and to go ah ah okay?

B

I can do that um and that's all part of development for them too, but but also passing on positive feedback, um and I find that approach typically leads to those people getting more inspired to really con consider their own development.

B

And then we can start talking about how to turn that into more practical steps as well. Yeah.

A

I love that I always say I don't need a parade, but I need to know what I'm doing well like I don't need. Like you know, I don't need you to like announce it to the whole world, but, like at least tell me what I'm doing right so yeah.

B

Yeah yeah we're we're wired that way right as humans, yeah just yeah. It's there's so much we can do with self-validation, but it's really different when you hear it from someone else, yeah. That's.

A

Good yeah definitely so I know um myself being an individual contributor. It can be difficult, sometimes to have conversations career conversations with your manager because they're they are kind of a vulnerable conversation. So what steps do you take to get team members comfortable talking about career development.

B

Yeah, to be honest, that, because this is something we start right at the beginning of their journey in gitlab um that helps you know it's like it's a natural part of what we talk about. It's not a big scary. Oh no, oh no she's put career development into the one-to-one document. It's like oh yeah, yeah, we're checking in on this. Oh that's going to be uncomfortable, but it'll be fun, but the other aspect of it is, I keep a fairly broad understanding of what career development can look like.

B

um So if someone says to me they're not really concerned about career development, I get really curious about that and I start asking questions because I relate for that. You know I someone asked me when I first started at gitlab, so watch your career plan, I'm like I don't have one. I'm not ambitious, turns out. That's not true! That was just something. It was a story. I was telling myself and when I looked at the facts in my history I said. Oh that's not true at all.

B

I just had a very narrow definition of what career development looked like so yeah. So I start asking questions about so what does career development mean to you and then consider that it's not necessarily about mapping out a promotion path, but can also be deepening a technical skill, broadening your range of skills, but equally importantly, that personal development is not only a valid part, but it's also a really really important part of career development.

A

Yeah, I agree, that's awesome. So um what do you do you kind of mentioned this a little bit, but what do you do if a team member like hasn't, talked to you about career development or they haven't brought it up in a conversation? uh What steps do you take? Yeah.

B

I the way the way we operate together is um if we haven't been talking about it, which is pretty rare to be honest but I'll, just pop it into the one to one and go hey, let's check in let's, let's chat about this, and if I know it's someone who was gonna kind of walk as soon as they see career development and go oh, no I'll just find a different way to phrase it and just go yeah. You know how's how's, your learning and growth going or.

A

B

Just just approach it in a way because I know for me I hate going into an agenda document that someone's put this mysterious little phrase in that I'm like. Oh no excuse me, it stresses me out, so I'm I'm really conscious of that that if I know it's yeah, if someone's.

A

B

With career, then career development, conversations yeah well I'll. Keep that soft yeah.

A

Definitely I can relate to that as well. So um as a manager do you have advice for other managers who want to talk to their team members more about career development and kind of make it a more regular conversation.

B

I I think the main thing I would say is be really open to career development, looking really really different for every person and the possibility that it could be wildly different to your own experience and the things that you value. You know you might be someone who's quite set on right. This is my career path. I know where I want to be in two years: five years, ten years. um That's amazing!

B

That's not going to be the case for some people, and I know that's that can be a place as a manager that can be really uncomfortable, I'm going okay. How do I meet them? Where they're at and um for me it's the opposite of the people who are really really planned and focused like okay? How? How can I best support them in this?

B

Because that's never been my experience of of being really really focused on a definite career plan, um so I love that it stretches me so I think, being open to being stretched as a manager as well- and I guess the last thing I'd say- is supporting people and discovering their strengths and passions is such a privilege and journeying with them in that discovery or supporting those who have a clear plan and determination to execute on that plan, both of those things they're really really rewarding to be a part of so yeah.

B

It's it's embrace that as an opportunity. It's amazing yeah.

A

Awesome that was really great advice. I loved it. Well, those are the questions that I had for you today, so I just want to really thank you for taking the time to talk with me. I think this information is going to be really helpful for get lab leaders really looking to help their team members grow their careers.

B

Cool thanks, jesse.