►
From YouTube: Progressive Delivery UX/PM meeting 2020-08-11
Description
Meeting to improve alignment between Product Management and UX for progressive Delivery
A
All
right,
thanks
for
joining
the
call,
there's
only
a
few
items
to
discuss
mainly
some
review
and
to
make
sure
we're
aligned
on
a
developation
roadmap,
but
first
off
there's
the
q3
okrs,
which
have
now
been
defined
and
finalized.
So
that
is
good.
I
just
wanted
to
align
everybody
on
like
hey.
Have
we
seen
this?
Is
everybody
on
board?
With
this?
A
A
So
here
we
have
the
okrs
there's
three
main
things:
basically
there's
one
which
is:
do
we
deliver
on
our
success?
So
this
is
like
hey.
We
have
our
quarterly
issues,
we're
quarterly
planning,
epic
issues.
How
much
of
that
are
we
actually
delivering
on
it's
a
pretty
simple
ocr,
which
was
there
kind
of
like
before,
but
in
a
less
formal
way?
A
You
know
our
product
development
roadmap,
then
on
to
the
next
one,
which
is
more
ux
product,
related
we're
going
to
do
the
maturity
scorecard.
A
This
is
going
to
try
our
best
doing
that,
and
the
first
step
in
that
is
create
a
job
to
be
done
overview
of
the
continuous
delivery
product
category
and
have
this
detail
in
the
handbook
there's
one
little
section
that
needs
to
be
filled
out
for
that,
and
we
need
to
be
relatively
confident
on
what
we're
going
to
put
in
there.
A
So
that's
the
first
part
and
there's
a
completely
maturity
score
card
for
continuous
delivery,
so
we're
gonna
only
focus
on
a
small
subsection
or
at
least
the
biggest
subsection
of
progressive
delivery,
and
I
was
just
wondering
mostly
towards
lori
like
do
you
have
any
additional
thoughts
to
this?
Do
you
think
this
is
feasible?
Your
general
thoughts
would
be
great
to
have.
B
B
Yes,
so
I
can
tell
you
that
the
category
maturity
score
card
is
the
process
is
being
reimagined.
I
don't
know
if
that's
the
right
word.
There
are
some
updates
to
be
made
that
I've
I've
got
to
dive
into
this
week
and
adam
has
assured
me.
B
So
I
say
that,
because
there
are
two
kinds
of
two
main
ways
you
can
get
your
jobs
to
be
done.
You
can
go
off
and
actually
conduct
what
they
call
job
interviews
with
people.
What
do
you
do?
Why
do
you
do
it
that
way?
What
tools
do
you
use
very,
very
similar
to
persona
interviews
but
they're
a
little
bit
more
specific
to
our
area
of
progressive
delivery?
B
The
other
way
that
you
can
do
it
is.
You
can
go
back
and
look
at
customer
interviews
prior
research
and
see
what
people
have
talked
about
in
terms
of
progressive
delivery
and
the
tasks
that
they
do
so
like
kiana
and
jackie
did
that
they
went
back
through
their
research
because
they
had
done
research
like
every
like
every
three
weeks
on
something
they
had
enough
information
in
that
knowledge
base
to
pull
jobs,
to
be
done
out
and
pull
them
out
with
with
confidence.
So
they
didn't
have
to
conduct
job
interviews.
B
I've
talked
to
some
other
designers
and
product
managers,
who
are
a
little
less
confident
in
those
jobs
to
be
done
that
they
kind
of
brainstormed
that
they
were
suggest.
I
suggested
to
them
to
go
in
and
run
a
few
job
interviews
to
see
if
they
can
validate
some
of
those
job
interviews
or
job
jobs.
To
be
done
so
you
can.
You
can
do
a
mix
of
those
two
things,
but
I
think
that's
a
good
place
to
start,
because
it's
never
a
bad
thing
to
have
jobs
to
be
done.
B
So
far,
just
just
wait,
I
think
a
little
bit
on
that
one
until
we
figure
out
where
it's
going
to
land
because
I'll
be
honest
it
it
may
very
well
just
go
away,
but
we'll
always
need
those
jobs
to
be
done.
So
that's
why
my
advice
would
be
to
start
with
the
jobs
to
be
done
and
go
from
there,
because
that
will
take
a
while.
It's
not
something
that
you
can
do
in
an
hour.
C
Goal
so
I
have
a
question
yeah
this
specific
jobs
to
be
done,
effort
that
we're
trying
to
do
has
to
do
with
the
fact
that
we're
trying
to
figure
out
what's
the
next
step
for
our
city.
Okay,
what's
our
current
maturity
and
how
do
we
get
the
next
maturity?
C
Because
I
don't
trust
what
we
wrote
right
now.
B
That
is
a
very
healthy
attitude.
Alright,
let
me
tell
you
that
is
good
yeah.
You
can
go
through
that
process
of
the
the
scorecard
as
we
have
it
now,
but
we
have
to
have
the
jobs
to
be
done
before
we
get
to
that
stage.
So
that's
why
my
suggestion
is:
let's,
let's
round
them
up,
let's
see
what
the
jobs
to
be
done.
Are
they
don't
have
to
be
things
that
we
have
solved
for
today?
B
C
B
If
you
guys
want
to
move
forward
with
the
cms
process,
which
jobs
to
be
done,
should
we
focus
on,
because
that
is
one
of
the
big
questions
that
everybody's
having
is
well.
I
got
this
category,
it's
never
been.
It's
never
really
had
gone
through
a
summative
evaluation
before
and
I
have
10
jobs
to
be
done.
Do
I
test
all
of
them?
No,
you
don't
have
enough
time
to
do
that,
so
the
conversation
then
become
once
you
identify
the
jobs
to
be
done.
B
The
conversation
then
turns
into
which
one
or
two
trust
me
one
or
two
tops
jobs
to
be
done
would
help
us
if
we
understood
how
well
we
have
done
or
how
bad
we
have
done
in
supporting
these
jobs
would
tell
us
how
mature
we
are
in
this
category
on
this.
This
time
frame
this
date
this
week.
Those
jobs
to
be
done
that
are
measured
over
time
will
change.
As
we
add
more
features
in
we
support
more
things.
We
get
deeper
into
these
tasks.
B
We
could
we
can
change
them
out,
but
it's
like
that
snapshot
at
the
time
this
one
job,
these
two
jobs.
These
are
the
most
important
things.
Let's
go
find
out
how
good
we
did
because
that's
what
we
think
they're
the
most
important
ones
based
on
what
we
know
from
our
customers.
They
have
to
complete
these
jobs.
B
How
did
we
do
with
those?
Because
each
job
often
relate
results
in
several
tasks
for
the
user
to
accomplish
in
order
to
to
do
that
job?
So
that's
why
I
say
one
to
two:
don't
hurt
yourself
and
do
like
four
or
five
it's
going
to
be
so
bad
it'll
be
like
an
hour
and
a
half
long
and
you'll
be
so
tired.
A
A
So,
even
though,
if
we
haven't,
if
we
cannot
focus
on
the
maturity
scorecard
so
much,
I
think
we
can
still
say
and
kind
of
like
display
the
result
of
our
efforts
in
that
job
to
be
done.
Framework
in
the
handbook
and
say
all
right,
there's
clearly
some
indication
that
we
need
to
focus
here
rather
than
there,
because
of
our
grading
of
each
several
subnets.
D
Yeah,
I
think,
even
and
lori,
if
you're
saying
that
the
cms
may
not
be
staying
with
us
forever,
but
I
think
jobs
to
be
done
are-
and
it's
anyway,
the
past
beginning
to
for
that
like
or
what
you're
saying
that
we
are
not
sure
if
what
we
have
there
for
cd
today
is
the
right
thing
to
have.
I
think
job
suburban
is
the
way
to
validate
that.
So
I
think
anyway,
that's
a
great
thing
to
do
here.
Naps
will
cms
be
in
place
or
not,
but
they're.
C
Just
great
so
what
I
meant
was
that
we
currently
in
cd,
for
example,
I
think
we're
at
complete,
whereas
we
hardly
support
the
net
cloud
deployments.
So
how
can
we
be
complete?
That's
what
I
mean
like
doesn't
make
sense
to
me.
C
B
Let's
focus
on
building
that
out
and
then
we
go
through
the
category
of
treaty
scorecard
once
we've
built
that
out
and
tested
and
that's
where
the
the
art
of
it
comes
in
a
little
bit
and
people
are
like,
but
I
just
want
you
to
tell
me
which
ones
I
need
to
test
it.
It's
it
really.
I
tend
to
rely
much
more
on
my
pants
to
tell
me,
because
you
guys
know
so
much
more
about
the
space
than
I
do.
You
know,
like
you
just
said.
My
gut
tells
me
like.
We
need
to
have
this
feature.
B
C
Everyone
is
the
point
of
the
cloud
and
if
everyone
is
not
deploying
the
cloud
they're
on
the
journey
to
deploying
to
the
cloud,
I
read
so
much
articles
about
like
that
being
the
trend.
It
seems
to
me
that
if
we
don't
do
that
or
either
lose
business-
or
I
don't
know
but
but
saying
that
we're
complete,
it
doesn't
feel
well
like
it
doesn't
sit
well
with
me.
But
that's
just
like
one
aspect:
cd
is
huge.
That's
the
entire
thing!
That's
the
biggest
problem.
B
I
know
you're
not
alone.
This
is
the
same
conversation
I
had
with
like
holly
and
some
of
the
other
designers
as
well
and
with
their
pms.
It's
it's
everybody's.
B
It's
it's
such
a
huge.
Each
of
the
categories
are
so
huge
that
it's
it's
hard
to
say.
Okay,
I'm
going
to
summatively,
evaluate
this
whole
entire
thing
and
then
tell
you
where
we
are:
we've
never
summatively
evaluated
anything
we've
only
formatively
evaluated,
so
we
evaluate
as
we
go.
We
never
just
take
a
step
back
and
go
okay.
What
where,
where
have
we
gone?
If
you
compare
what
we
have
now
to
where
we
started
sure
we're
more
mature
than
where
we
started
right,
it's
all
relative!
B
B
But
for
you,
like,
I,
don't
cd
offers
usable
things
for
people
to
use
like
they're.
It's
not
like
the
the
gantt
chart
with
the
project
management
stuff,
which
is
very,
very
low
in
its
ability
to
be
used
because
it
offers
so
very
little
yeah
right.
B
It
is
something
that
everybody's
struggling
with
so
don't
feel
like
just
because
you're
not
doing
the
one
thing
you
have
to
go
down
in
category
maturity
and
we
couldn't
even
test
it
because
there's
nothing
to
test
right,
that
we
couldn't
even
say
that
we
don't
do
it
because
we
we
don't
have
anything
designed
for
it
and
that's
the
other
flaw
in
this:
the
cms
system.
It
only
tests
what
we
have
yeah.
B
B
Objective
or
subjective
on
this
category
maturity
score.
We
need
to
get
numbers
in
behind
that,
so
thus
the
cms
process
was
born,
but
yeah-
I
I
don't
know,
and
that
may
be
very
well
where
it
goes
or
eat
like
we
abandoned
this
summative
very
heavy
summative
process
and
we
go
towards
more
of
a
industry
standard
like
let's
look
at
our
competitors
and
see
what
they're
doing
see
what
they're
supporting
do.
We
do
that
or
not
that's
pretty
cut
and
dry.
C
C
C
I
don't
know
if,
if
I
agree
with
that,
and
some
things
were
leaders
and
in
some
things
were
followers-
take,
for
example,
feature
flags,
we're
pretty
late
in
the
game.
First,
we
need
to
reach
basic
feature
parity
before
we
make
this
awesome
cool
new
feature,
that's
going
to
be
a
differentiator,
so
it
really
depends.
D
I
guess
it's
all
in
our
hands
anyway.
I
think
to
my
understanding.
I
think
the
analysts
and
the
users
can
bring
in
two
different
pieces
of
information
to
the
table
because
they
are
really
leaving
two
different.
Well,
not
two
different
worlds,
but
exactly
like
enemies
are
looking
at
the
product
from
one
perspective,
and
then
users
are
like
selfishly
looking
at
what
they
need:
yeah
and
that
to
jimmy's
point.
D
If
you
want
to
be
a
bit
of
a
well
leaders
or
maybe
come
up
with
some
fresh
ideas,
maybe
you
could
look
into
that
and
try
to
brainstorm,
but
yeah
talking
to
analysts
is
always
helpful
as
well.
I
would
see
those
things
as
more
like
how
do
you
say
adding
on
top
of
each
other,
then
replacing
each
other
from
my.
C
Well,
I
don't,
I
think
we
need
to
figure
out
the
jobs
to
be
done.
Like
lori
said,
that's
the
the
first
place
to
start
with.
D
Yeah,
I
think
it
can
open
a
lot
of
our
eyes
and
a
lot
of
information
to
be
honest
and.
C
I
think
we
should
actually
go
with
those
job
interviews
that
were
suggested
because
I
don't
think
at
least
the
the
interviews,
the
research
that
I
have
done
in
the
past
few
months,
together
with
a
b
testing,
a
b
testing
is,
like
a
whole
different
persona,
so
I
think
we
can't
rely
on
that
and
then
you
know
I
did
deploy
to
aws.
I
did
the
post
deployment
monitoring.
B
That,
I
think,
will
help,
and
so
with
these
interviews,
think
of
them
as
very
similar
to
personas
so
you're
going
to
want
to
talk
to
more
than
five
people
you're
going
to
want
to
talk
to
we're
looking
at
8-10
per
segment.
B
So
if
there
are
differences
between,
I
don't
know
somebody
new
to
cd
versus
somebody
who's
doing
it
for
20
years
versus
some
tools
that
they're
using
or
enterprise
versus
a
jack
of
all
trades
one
person
who's
doing
it
all
you
know
think
about
what
the
differences
might
be.
That
might
be
a
good
first
step
is
think
about
all
the
differences
that
you've
come
across.
B
As
you
know
this
space
and
think
about
how
many
categories
that
makes
like
how
many
groups
of
people
does
that
make
and
then
from
there,
depending
on
how
many
groups
of
people
you
have
how
many
segments
then
then
you're
looking
for
like
eight
to
ten
per
segment,
because
you're
really
wanting
to
dive
deep
into
what
is
it
that
they
do?
What
is
it
that
they
wish
they
did
for,
especially
around
progressive
delivery.
B
What
are
the
tools
that
they're
using?
What
are?
Who
are
the
people
that
they're
working
with
like
it's
all
of
those
questions?
It's
on
that
template
too,
so
you
can
look
in
there
and
get
a
sense
of
those
questions
that
you
would
want
to
ask
somebody
in
these
interviews,
but
it's
really
diving
deep
into
their
jobs
and
their
daily
lives.
It's
just
like
somebody
sitting
down
with
you
and
interviewing
you
about
what
you
do.
A
Okay,
all
right
sounds
good
sounds
doable
in
terms
of
like
the
validation
roadmap,
like
it's
from
product
design,
perspective
finishing
up
a
b
testing.
Then
it's
you
know
focusing
on
jobs
to
be
done
in
terms
of
those
interviews.
D
B
D
B
A
All
right
sounds
good,
that
is,
that
is
something
to
to
dive
into.
In
that
case,
the
last
the
less
okay.
To
finish
up,
my
original
story
is
focused
on
the
product:
slash
ux
okr,
so
just
derived
from
there
and
specific
to
progressive
delivery,
groomed
the
backlogs
seeing
which
issues
apply
to
progressive
delivery
and
those
are
to
be
weighted
by
engineering,
some
to
be
done
by
whomever
encounters
them,
such
as
myself,
but
we'll
see
from
there.
So
nothing
more,
nothing
really
exciting
there
that
we
didn't
know
already
about.
C
So
I
had
one
question
about
the
okr:
there's
an
okr
about
pajama
design
and
about
that-
and
he
told
me
that
we're
not
we
don't
we're
not
obligated
to
schedule
any
of
those
items
like
it's.
It's
a
grab
bag.
Basically,
anyone
who
wants
to
fix
them
is
welcome
to,
but
they
don't.
A
Yes,
that
is
absolutely
correct.
There's
no
dedicated
commitment
needed.
However,
everyone
is
very
much.
How
do
you
say
we
assume
intent
to
deliver,
and
in
that
way
I
was
thinking
as
I
I
think,
hayana
has
done
a
little
bit
of
the
same
thing.
At
least
I
encountered
some
of
her
labeled
issues,
but
I
think
we
were
the
first
ones
to
actually
do
it
in
this
way.
So
I
was
thinking
of
like
hey
some
of
these
issues.
At
least
I've
done
a
few
already
they
take.
A
You
know
they
take
quite
a
long
time,
and
I
think
they
are
super
simple
for
from
that
engineer,
who
is
day
in
day
and
out
day
in
the
code,
and
in
that
way
I
was
wondering
like
hey.
These
are
kind
of
like
0.5
or
weight
1
issues.
So
I
was
thinking
like.
Maybe
you
can
leverage
some
of
the
engineering
team
to
say
all
right,
let's
close
a
few
of
them
and
that
they
contribute
to
the
bigger
effort
of
this
product
and
ux
opr.
A
Good
luck,
pajamas,
they're
socks.
We
have,
I
don't
know
about
pajamas,
but
we
have
socks.
I
think
that
would
be
a
great
thing.
A
Yeah,
I
can
ask
tori
about
those,
because
we
have
a
lot
of
those
pajamas
in
stock.
So
do
I
know
perhaps
we
we
should.
We
should
give
some
incentive
to
to
to
put
behind
that.
A
Cool
that
that
is
really
cool
idea.
I
think
there
was
already
something
like
that,
but
I
don't
know
if
that
was
tied
to
this
otr,
yes
or
no.
A
I'll
go
into
that
in
the
last
thing,
and
then
I'll
briefly
ask
about
this
just
a
thing
to
think
about-
and
this
is,
I
think,
especially
wondering
about
you
or
it
from
our
product
point
of
view.
Now
in
a
bit
we'll
have
all
those
jobs
to
be
done.
We
have
these
user
flows,
people
are
being
awesome
in
our
product,
but
we
are
still
releasing
products
like
our
milestones
in
like
big
buckets
like
here's,
a
bucket
of
stuff
we've
developed
this
milestone
here
here.
A
You
have
it
all,
and
that
is
awesome,
but
it
doesn't
really
provide
too
much
context
in
like
in
what
way
it's
going
to
be
awesome
for
whom
right
so
I
was
wondering,
is:
are
there
any
ideas
both
from
a
release
or
like
from
a
product
perspective,
but
perhaps
also
from
release
perspective,
but
also
from
a
larger
jobs
to
be
done
perspective
lori?
A
Perhaps
there
are
some
ideas
floating
around
to
see
if
we
can
go
and
deliver
blog
posts
like
a
release,
blog
post,
but
like
geared
at
a
specific
job
to
be
done
for
a
specific
persona
or
something
like
that.
Like
hey,
we
have
developed
this
user
flow
in
completeness
in
the
last
six
milestones,
we're
now
ready
to
to
state
to
you
like
hey.
This
is
a
complete
thing.
You
can
use
this
with
satisfaction,
etc.
C
So
anyone
can
write
a
blog
post
about
anything.
Basically,
it's
called
an
unfiltered
post
and
some
of
them
are
and
there's
another
blog
post,
which
is
like
promoted
by
the
company.
So
you
have
one
of
two
ways
of
doing
them
and
I
have
done
both
in
the
last
few
months.
C
So,
for
example,
I
just
released
a
post
about
safely
deploying
with
gitlab.
So
I
combined
a
bunch
of
issues
which
included
both
progressive
delivery
and
release
management
and
made
a
list
of
things
that
you
could
that
you
can
use
together
in
order
to
have
safe
deployments,
and
it
got
really
great
feedback.
That
was,
that
was
a
blog.
That
was
not
an
unfiltered
one.
C
It
was
one
that
was
promoted,
but
I've
also
done
like
really
small
blog
posts,
for
example,
for
the
community
contribution
that
we
had
for
the
notification
for
when
the
pipeline
succeeds.
After
it
fails-
and
I
just
wrote
a
dedicated
blog
post
just
about
that
with
a
bunch
of
like
manual
and
training
material
and
what
you'll
expect
and
things
like
that.
So
we
can
always
do
that
and
if
we
come
up
with
something
good
enough,
then
we
can
also
promote
it.
So
there's
nothing
holding
back
anyone
to
doing
that.
C
A
Yeah,
that
sounds
good.
I'm
glad
to
hear
that.
What
do
you
think
about,
like
the
larger,
like,
of
course
we
can.
We
can
go
about
this
in
our
own
way
and
kind
of
like
push
forward,
but
do
you
think
like
when
I
look
at
the
release
blog
posts?
I
see
the
same
design.
The
same
structure
that
I
implemented
three
years
ago,
like
nothing,
has
changed.
A
C
The
release
blog
post
is
like
the
most
annoying
process
that
I
have
to
work
with
in
gitlab.
It's
like
my
pain,
but
I've
tried
to
change
it
like
almost
every
month
and
sid
is
in
love
with
it.
So
I
don't
see
it
changing
anytime
soon.
The
thing
was
that
there
used
to
be
like
this
huge
release,
notes
that
wasn't
structured
in
any
way
and
then
they
said,
here's
here's
the
release,
blog
post
and
there
was
like
a
list
a
huge
list.
C
It's
still
a
huge
list,
but
now
they
said
okay,
let's
say
the
top
three
and
just
like
highlight
them,
and
then
they
divided
it
into
primary
and
secondary
items,
because
there's
a
bunch
of
like
really
cool
stuff
and
there's
like
smaller
cool
stuff.
So
it's
a
huge
process.
I
just
I
don't
even
understand
why
we're
doing
the
blog
post
once
a
month
we
deliver
twice
a
week
to
production.
Why
don't?
We
do
mini
release
blog
posts?
A
A
Then
perhaps
you
know
we
can
put
our
efforts
of
our
jobs
to
be
done
also
in
something
like
that,
can
expose
a
little
bit
more
and
get
a
little
bit
more
value
out
of
it
than
we
already
will
have
at
that
point.
So
that's
good.
If
there
are
more
no
more
comments,
then
I'm
going
to
end
this
session
and
I'll
see
you
later
is.
C
This
one
one
thing
lori
yeah:
I
completed
this.
The
draft
of
the
screener
just
keep
an
eye
out
on
that.