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From YouTube: Leadership Insights 019 (Andy Brough/Jean du Plessis-GitLab: Remote Working & Collaboration)
Description
Dr Andy Brough in conversation with Jean du Plessis from GitLab talking remote work, collaboration, the Gitlab Handbook, asynchrononous communication, virtual meetings and leadership lessons for remote teams
A
Hi
everybody
and
welcome
to
another
episode
of
leadership
insights
today,
we're
talking
to
a
team
from
get
lab,
get
lab
has
over
1200
employees
in
over
65
countries
and
they
don't
have
a
single
office
building,
and
so
they
certainly
have
become
I.
Think
champions
of
remote
working
joining
me
to
discuss
that
today
is
South
African
engineering
manager
at
get
that
John,
you
plus
C,
and
thanks
for
joining
me
today,.
B
Sure
so
recently
we
had,
we
were
going
to
have
our
annual
get-together
in
Prague,
but
because
of
code
19,
we
we
had
a
virtual
get
together
and
you
know
it's
actually
a
month
a
little
bit
the
way,
the
montage
of
all
the
geeks
that
team
members-
and
it
was
just
kind
of
like
a
range
and
I'm
in
our
logo-
shape
and
it's
one
of
those
that
I
really
like
that.
It
shows
that
near
the
breadth
of
the
company
and
how
different
we
are
so
yeah
give
up.
B
You
know
and
its
simplest
form
get
happy
in
the
product
that
Dean's
used
to
collaborate
on
possibly
development
in
project
management.
You
know
we
we
started
as
an
open
source
project
where,
with
you
know,
the
mentor
off
everybody
can
contribute,
and
so
you
know
like
that's
one
of
our
I'll
kind
of
like
unique
things
is
that
we
have
so
many
contributions
to
the
product
from
the
open
source
community.
You
know
it's
almost
like.
B
A
Are
people
watching
today
who
are
not
coders
but
would
be
interested
in
remote
working
and
given
that
you
are
an
all
remote
team
in
65
countries,
I
know
that
you
were
onboarding
some
some
new
youngsters
today
in
terms
of
remote
work.
What
would
you
say
are
some
of
the
principles
of
working
remotely.
B
Intentional
communication
is
really
important.
The
one
thing
you
don't
always
get
with
remote
working
is
people's
tone,
their
body
language,
and
so
your
be
intentional
about
your
communication.
Get
levers
created
great
communication
guidelines
for
its
team
members
to
follow.
We
always
will
serve
this
thing
of
always
has
assumed
positive
in
pain,
there's,
cultural
differences
in
the
way
people
phrase
things,
and
so
we
encourage
using
simple
language.
You
know
and
being
very
descriptive
and
deliberate
with
how
you
communicate.
B
We
use
slack
internally
both
for
communication,
but
we're
very
specific
in
that
we
we
don't
ever
we
have
a
90
day
retention
policy
for
communication
in
slack,
because
we
don't
want
it
to
be
our
single
source
of
truth.
You
get
up,
has
a
handbook
where,
which
is
our
single
source
of
truth,
where
we
believe
that
anything
that
a
team
member
needs
to
know
about
how
to
do
something:
epic
that
should
be
in
there
and
so,
if
they
looking
for
something,
that's
where
it
should
be.
B
So
having
that
the
retention
policies
that
forces
you
to
make
sure
that
the
important
information
is
documented
in
the
handbook
and
in
meetings
we
use
zoom
for
meetings
like
a
lot
of
companies
do,
and
it's
a
really
important
part
of
our
strategy
to
have
this
face-to-face
communication.
We
can't
always
meet
in
person,
but
face
to
face
is
quite
important,
but
we
do
you
zoom
and
meeting
slightly
different,
we're
very
intentional
about
every
meeting
starting
on
time,
ending
on
time.
Agendas
must
be
sick
of
beforehand.
B
If
there's
no
gene
that
there's
no
meeting-
and
we
also
every
meeting-
has
a
Google
Doc
where
we
take
notes.
At
the
same
time,
d
members,
collaborate
taking
notes
as
other
team
members
speak,
mask
questions,
and
so
it
allows
multitasking
and
collaborating
on
almost
and
that
written
copy
of
transcript
of
the
notes.
That
is
really
important
for
team
members
who
who
are
not
available
to
be
on
the
court.
They
might
be
in
a
time
zone
where
they
sleeping
to
be
able
to
review
what
was
said.
B
It
will
also
record
our
meeting,
so
they
can,
they
can
watch
it,
but
many
team
members
don't
have
the
time
to
go
and
watch
every
meeting.
So
they've
then
scanned
the
agenda
items
and
make
sure
if
there
was
something
important,
then
that
might
go
into
the
meeting.
We
also
use
speedy
meetings
here.
So
instead
of
30
minutes
or
an
hour,
it's
25
minutes
15
minutes
and
that
just
allows
you
to
take
some
time
in
between
meetings
for
self-care
answering
an
email
or
mental
transition
preparing
for
the
next
meeting.
B
You
know
we
we
expect
people
to
be
managers
at
their
own
time.
So,
even
if
a
meeting
is
your
company
meeting
is
scheduled,
it's
your
choice,
whether
to
attend
it
and
because
we
recorded-
and
we
can
we
document
it-
you
can
always
catch
our
face,
increasing
that's
why
how
we
give
people
the
choice
of
whether
to
join
meeting,
so
they
don't
get
that
fatigue,
that
a
lot
of
people
have
talked
about
being
rude.
A
B
The
opposite
of
a
thinker
is
communication
is
synchronous
like
now.
You
and
I
are
talking
in
real
time.
If
we're
having
a
phone
call,
that's
synchronous,
if
I'm
talking
to
you
on
slack
directly
and
you're,
responding
immediately.
That's
that's
a
form
of
synchronous
communication.
One
of
the
things
that
are
that
new
team
members
find
sometimes
challenging
to
that
is
the
concept
of
asynchronous
communication.
Is
the
it's
the
notion
of
I'm,
putting
something
out
there,
but
I
don't
expect
an
immediate
answer.
B
It
means
that
you
know
like
I
need
to
be
okay
with
that
and
and
the
reason
for
that
is
my
team
of
who
I'm
asking
something
from
might
be
in
Australia
and
sleeping
right
now,
and
so
I
can't
expect
them
to
be
online
all
the
time
and
and
so
issue.
This
communication
allows
you
to
to
to
mitigate
the
challenges
that
time
zones
bring
because
time
zones
are,
unfortunately,
the
one
thing
about
remote
with
net
accounts.
B
It's
it's
a
physical
constraint,
that's
there,
but
it
mitigate
some
of
the
challenges,
and
it
also
means
that,
even
if
it
be
even
on
slack,
you
know,
slack
is
not
seen
as
a
synchronous
communication
channel
at
get
that
I
can
post
the
message
there,
but
it
doesn't
mean
I
had
the
right
to
expect
an
immediate
answer.
It's
up
to
two
to
the
other
team
member
to
dislike.
B
You
know
when
they
can,
when
they
will
answer,
they
might
be
in
busy
doing
some
focus,
work
and
and
and
don't
have
that
the
time
will
want
to
focus
on
what
they're
doing
to
respond
right
now
and-
and
that
is
totally
okay,
so
we're
rather
focus
on
you
know
letting
people
will
can
multiple
pieces
of
time.
Small
iterations
and
with
asynchronous
communication
allows
us
to
move
many
parts
forward
them.
You
notice,
John.
A
You've
referenced
the
gitlab
handbooks
or
the
play
books.
I
had
a
quick
peek
last
week
and
it
now
runs
up
I
think
if
it
was
printed
out
to
more
than
5,000
pages.
What
would
you
say
to
the
critics
who
are
gonna?
Look
at
that
and
go
wow.
I
could
never
work
in
an
organization
with
so
many
rules.
It
seems
too
prescriptive.
It
seems
a
very
restrictive
working
environment
again
for
those
not
familiar
with
how
you've
laid
this
out
as
a
kid
blabber.
What
would
you
say
to
that?
B
Up,
if
that
we
were
very
serious
about
documentation
you,
if
you
you
know
in
an
office
environment,
for
instance,
you've
got
this
notion
of
the
Steve
context,
new,
you
overhear
a
conversation.
You
see
how
other
people
act
and
until
you
pick
up
used
from
that,
but
when
you
all
remote,
you
don't
have
that.
So
how
are
you
supposed
to
know
what
to
do
if
you
don't
write
it
done,
and
and
so
yes,
we
have
a
very
large
member,
we
don't
expect
any
employee
to
sit
and
read
from
page
one
to
page
five
times.
B
If
you
will
record
that
during
our
onboarding,
we
we
make,
we
navigate
the
news
to
very
specific
pages
in
the
handbook
and
and
it's
all
about
them
being
aware
where
they
can
find
the
information.
Rather
than
remembering
every
piece
of
information.
That's
out
there.
We
constantly
work
on
making
the
contribute
that
the
ability
to
contribute
content
around
book
easier
and
and
also
the
ability
to
search
and
consume
that
information.
B
So,
for
instance,
if
we
form
the
team
which
I'm
actually
the
manager
of
that
focuses
on
it,
specifically
improving
the
editing
experience
for
for
non
engineering
team
members
of
our
handbook.
So
our
handbook
is
a
static
site,
which
is
a
fancy
way
of
saying
we.
We
have
markdown
files,
which
is
a
specific
format
that
gets
compiled
into
a
static
website,
the
basic
HTML
page,
for
instance,
so
it's
not
backed
by
a
database
or
anything
like
that,
but
a
lot
of
our
non
engineering
team
members
struggle.
B
Sometimes
you
know
to
to
work
with
that,
because
it
requires
knowledge
about
Gibbs
and
marker,
and
so
we
get
that
was
so
dedicated
to
it's
kind
of
dead
before
they
form
the
team
to
improve
their
editing,
experience
off
of
static
sites
and
we're
also
working
on
on
improving
the
usability
of
it.
The
discoverability
of
content
as
well
as
you
know,
the
experience
of
consuming
it.
A
John
I
get
the
impression
reading
the
handbook
that
it's
very
much
a
living
document
you
make
provision
for
merge,
requests
and
for
things
to
be
added
by
people
in
the
team.
So
how
does
that
work
if
I,
if
I'm
in
there
and
I,
see
something
that
I
think
might
be
an
addition
or
an
improvement?
Maybe
just
give
us
insight
into
that
process.
Yeah.
B
So
I'm
explaining
the
principle
and
I
know
in
in
one
of
the
early
meetings
that
I
observed
that
it
was
our
CEO.
He
said
at
gitlab.
We
either
love
according
to
the
handbook
or
we
changed
the
handbook.
In
other
words,
the
handbook
is
our
single
source
of
truth.
You
know
if,
if
we
do,
if
our
behavior
does
not
correlate
with
that,
we
either
need
to
change
our
behavior
or
change
the
handbook
to
reflect
what
the
right
version,
and
so
any
team
member
can
go
to
the
handbook,
did
an
edit
link
on
it.
B
You
click
it
and
you
make
a
change.
We
also
have
this
principle
of
new
changes
introduced
by
a
military
quest,
so
you
have
to
go
and
change
the
handbook
first
and
then
you
communicate
the
change
and
you
link
to
the
the
metric
which,
which
shows
what
you've
changed
and
then
it
will
be
socialized
then
and
discussed,
and
if
accepted
it
gets
added
to
the
handbook
and
that's
all
change
its
introduced.
I'll
give
you
a
very
trivial
example.
B
At
the
end
of
last
year,
we
have
we
have
a
year
in
function,
budget
that
is
allocated
to
team
members.
I
think
it
was
$50
at
the
time
and
what
a
team
member
I
did
that
mentioned,
that
they're
struggling
to
find
something
meaningful
to
do
at
$50,
and
so
they
made
a
change
changing
into
$100
and
as
a
recommendation
they
sing
that
change.
B
Deucer,
you
say
exactly
were
52.
The
finance
director
is
my
news.
Director
looked
at
it
and
said,
he's
happy
and
they
accepted
it.
They
changed
an
but
and
that's
how
easy
it
was
so
literally,
the
notion
of
everybody
can
contribute
is
not
just
to
give
up
the
product.
It
even
team
members
empowered
to
contribute
to
the
handbook
and
change
the
process
of
how
we
do
things
as
long
as
as
long
as
you,
you
follow
the
approach
by
you
make
the
change
discuss
it
and
it
is
agreement
on
it.
A
B
B
B
First
and
our
our
leaders
are
leading
by
example,
when
they
encouraged
employees
to
take
leave
to
take
care
of
himself,
they
first
they
first
take
the
leap
and
interests:
I
mean
they
share
it
like
they
like
to
communicate
about
it
and
they
show
you
what
they
do
so
that
they
increased
and
see.
So
you
really
have
to
be
deliberate
with
what
was
how
you
lead
and
mean
by
example,
you
conscious.
Oh,
they
took
you,
have
to
walk
it.
A
Sean
you've
given
us
some
great
examples
of
principles
of
working
remotely
some
ideas
of
how
to
work
with
a
handbook
of
written
communication,
the
dynamics
of
asynchronous
communication
and
questions
around
living,
the
brand
and
living
the
values
John
do
Plessy
engineering
manager
at
guid
lab
based
in
Cape
Town
South
Africa.
Thank
you
so
much
for
joining
me
today
on
leadership.
Insights
thanks
Sean
thank.