GitLab Support Team, 9 Dec 2021

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From YouTube: AMA - Being a Senior Support Engineer APAC/AMER 2021-12

Description

The goal of this meeting was to answer questions about becoming and being a Senior Support Engineer

Details: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/support/support-team-meta/-/issues/3886

Facilitator: Alvin Gounder

Seniors answering questions:

* Anton Smith, New Zealand, APAC
* Cynthia ”Arty” Ng, Canada, AMER
* Greg Myers, USA, AMER
* Alexander Strachan, Australia, APAC

A

I would say record it to the computer.

B

Oh sorry, oops um hi, everybody. uh This is the oscars editing um being becoming a senior 2021 december.

B

This is the apec aimo region decision and we've got a lot of really cool questions in the thing in the dock. So without much to do, let's uh get this started. Oh all, right. So the first question is: uh what made you decide to become an s senior support, engineer.

C

Yep, so I'll go first, so for a long time it was just a lot of encouragement from my reporting manager. So it's quite interesting that it actually took me close to a year for me to actually start the promo doc, and during that time my manager would constantly say: hey anton you working on your primary doc, yet hey anton and when I actually did it, she was like super excited so which was really cool, but also I got a lot of comments from other colleagues through the 360 feedbacks like.

C

Why aren't you a senior yet so I think for a long time. I was just in disbelief that you know I was actually up to par. So I think, once I started listening to the feedback that I was received, that's when I decided to become a senior sport engineer.

B

A

um Yeah cynthia here um for those who of you who don't know for some reason, um also go by artie searching on slack. So I was interestingly, didn't really decide on becoming a senior support engineer. So much as uh my manager. At some point told me, I was already working as a senior and so should just become a senior officially be recognized, um and I mean admittedly, paid at a senior level uh and so that's kind of how it went for me.

D

Yeah and for me, uh I found myself thinking a lot about big picture stuff and I wanted to shift my focus a bit from helping myself succeed to more helping our team succeed.

B

Thank you thanks, greg cynthia anton all right, so the next question from kenneth is uh related to the previous question. When did you feel ready to go through the process of applying to be a senior engineer.

C

So the truth is for me anyway. You never really feel ready. Because back to my previous answer, the hesitation I had for um actually becoming a singer in the first place was I felt, like my technical knowledge wasn't up to par and you know you need to stop and look back at all your achievements that you've done and the impacts that you have created amongst the team and that was felt when I actually filled in the promo doc.

C

And then I realized, oh, hey anton you've, actually done some pretty cool stuff and you know, like I've, always had an issue with acknowledging my own successes. So when I saw that I was like, maybe I I am ready so yeah. That's my realization anyway.

B

Cool. Thank you anton uh cynthia.

A

I I'm just basically gonna reiterate what anton said earlier. Actually, it's like, if you're a manager, other people start telling you that you're a senior you're working as a senior that I mean you're, ready, there's no doubt about it. Once once people start saying you're, you feel like a senior you act like a senior, I mean you're you're, a senior. I mean it's again, just a matter of being recognized um for the work that you're already doing.

A

um Anyone else alex.

E

uh Yeah, I can say it's similar to craig. uh I find the concept of senior and not senior are quite difficult, but that's based on if you're a unix assignment once you have the root password thing, there really is very little control, but what what did make me think about it? More was mostly lyle and the idea of the flow of assistant team and doing work for a wider field, so that eventually made me review uh like anton. I did.

E

I kept some minimal notes or progress, but that was just a habit I have anyway, but that kind of triggered me to make a new year's resolution to focus on. I did need some extra extra motivation to uh to go back and think about it and think. Okay. This is worth pursuing for a number of reasons.

B

Cool cool. Thank you. Thank you alex. Thank you, cynthia greg did you have something to add or no no okay cool. um So then somebody has asked. uh Did you actively update your promotion, though? So I imagine this means you know throughout your uh throughout from when you started at gitlab or, like maybe like six months into your.

D

Yeah, so I uh I actually did not start a promo like pat to promotion doc for almost two years after being at kit lab, uh and I regret this. If I could go back and do it differently, I would have started it like in my first month.

D

um One thing I had trouble with is so I had a bunch of discretionary bonuses. I think six or seven in that time period and a lot of the messages were lost in the void of slack retention policy or whatever. So uh when it does come to like proving character, uh development and alignment with values I felt like. I would have been good to have the examples of my discretionary bonus.

D

The reason I was nominated for those um additionally yeah, really anything where it's thanks or you're going above and beyond, and it's shared in slack- uh that's only going to be around for 90 days. So I would encourage anybody, even if you're, not thinking about uh promotion to just store start a document called promo source material and anything in slack uh or any achievement. Accomplishment you're, proud of make sure to update it and add it there. It will pay off in.

D

In a lot once it does come time to to uh do your path to promo doc. um You will have a lot of material instead of starting from scratch.

C

Yeah, I also echo a lot of what greek has just outlined.

C

uh I didn't actually start my promo doc until a few days before I submitted it so, but what I did have was, I started a google doc, maybe five six months into the job, and I just kept those things that greg mentioned, like screenshots, of like conversations of um thanks from other team members, discretionary bonuses and also just links of tickets from zendesk, with positive feedback on you know how I performed there now due to get lab being great and all- and you know when we work on issues and emrs, it's all public, it's easily searchable.

C

uh It's it's really easy to find those later on to fill in the promo docs. So because I had all those key things to begin with. It was very easy for me to rapidly fill in the primary dock, so yeah.

B

Excellent thanks anton uh just a point to notice that there's still that three month retention period on slack, so those ones you can't find again. You know if you've missed a boat on that uh alex.

E

uh Yes, I did, but only after I made the commitment to that. I wanted to do this as a goal. Other notes were mostly for performance reviews. um That was the main reason for doing that.

B

Very cool, thank you. Alex and cynthia you've got a plug.

A

um For anyone who hasn't seen it, I created a track. Your work document template which is in the shared google drive, and I think, jane at some point, called it a dumping ground for uh anything you might just want to know, and that is exactly how I encourage people to use it, and this is how I use it literally, just as anton's it might be. Like tickets, you've gotten good essa on like greg says it could be slack messages because of the 90-day retention.

A

You want to keep it, but this is a way to like just quickly copy and paste things into a dot. It gives you kind of like basic categorization, but you can always you know, mess with. However, you want uh with it and uh if, if nothing else, it's good for your performance review.

E

Maybe that could be added to the onboarding list.

E

It's a little reminder. You could do this.

A

I think it's up to managers to create a path to promotion document when um individual contributors starts so I, but this would be potentially an alternative. The reason why I kind of took the word promotion out of it is because I know a lot of people kind of struggle with what to put in a document that is towards promotion versus just keeping track of work, that you've done.

A

But alex, if absolutely please put in an mr add it to the onboarding for support that would be cool.

E

I, like the different purpose of it, which is cool.

B

Excellent, uh very cool- and I guess uh one thing that antoine touched on earlier, uh which uh I know that a lot of us have to deal with is the whole thing of where you feel like you're. You know.

C

B

Doing enough or you're not actually contributing and stuff, and I feeling um with with this with this thing with this sheet- I guess it helps, because you can remind yourself of the things that you're accomplishing as you go right, so it does help to boost confidence a little bit for people who are uh affected by that. I guess affected anyway.

C

B

uh Next question: do you feel you're more or less effective as a manager of one after becoming a senior engineer.

A

I I got up for yes, yes, and no, um it really really is both. I think I've been proved that being a manager one in some ways, but I also struggle more often than I used to because as a senior I just have more to prioritize, um so I think it was only after becoming a senior that I ever went to my manager and said here's a list of things that I have to do. This is how I prioritize it.

A

Do you agree because anything at the bottom of the list might not be worked on until three months from now.

D

Yeah and I'm I'm pretty much the same- uh it's it's balancing act. uh I I don't feel I'm a more or less effective manager of one. I do think, there's more that I'm expected to work on and more that. I'm excited that I can help out with, especially in terms of big picture stuff and in areas that I was previously not involved.

D

uh So that does take a bit more effort and time to do well, but I, at the same time I feel like I have a bit more autonomy and what I can either delegate to others or like find a way to for me to drop the responsibility and find find like a way to work on something where my time or effort would be put to better use or or produce more results. I would say so more autonomy in what I work on, but more things available to work out.

B

Excellent, do any of the other city engineers want to voice their answers.

B

No we're all good all right so uh time time, huh um question number five: how much technical knowledge do you believe someone should have to be classed as an as a senior easy to do with technical knowledge.

D

So one of the one of the distinctions between senior and intermediate, I feel, is the intermediate. It's a lot easier to focus on one area become a subject matter expert where there is an expectation that seniors the specializations will be less important and the general ability to move things forward regardless of the subject matter, uh is more important, so I'd say having some familiarity with the different workflows in our handbooks and some hands-on experience across the different features and stages is helpful. um Yeah.

D

It's like intel next.

C

Yeah, so greg raises a lot of good points and yeah, I'm not going to go repeating them, but um yeah. It is important at a senior level to have a basic foundation. Knowledge of you know most of the things, and you know just going back to some of the previous questions. You know for a long time. I felt that was a blocker for me becoming a senior support. Engineer.

C

Like I remember talking to my manager about hey, I need to learn more about terraform or kubernetes, and I feel I felt like I would never get to the level of some of the other support engineers who are just amazing at kubernetes or terraform, using those as examples.

C

But I then learned that technical knowledge is not the only factor when you are being considered for seeing a support engineer, and I feel that the ability to mentor and inspire other team members and just being able to help out you know, as you know, even emotional support as well. I think, is very important and just knowing how to move something forward. Even if you don't fully understand yourself so yeah.

A

I'm I'm going to add a little bit of actually what lyle wrote async in the dark, and you know he he talks about how it's not about how much you know it's about knowing where to go um and that's either where to look technically uh or who to ask, and it's um it's really about like knowing the next steps to resolution, and I think that's actually one of the things we have found to be successful in aymer, we started doing these senior help sessions and it's not the same as a crush, because it's not about necessarily you know, troubleshooting on the ticket itself.

A

It's about getting people um on to the next step towards resolution and that could be connecting them with an expert within support could be connecting them with dev or product.

A

So at the same time it's good to be, I would say, an expert in one or two areas, but also remember that our definition of expert is above average and considering the size of our product. You don't need a lot to be above average.

B

Thank you, cynthia alex, uh were you uh trying to? Were you going to write something yeah.

E

Sorry, just trying to form my thoughts um agree with the above I from a self-managed perspective.

E

The foundational knowledge is is important, but I think this shift I'm personally trying to see now some more focus on gitlab skills, so more of the gitlab functionality and becoming better aware of it's how it works and not so much the underlying technology, because the product scope is really really growing and with groups and subgroups and members and being a member from ldap being a member from sample.

E

All that is we're moving. I think in general, we're moving away from the foundational knowledge of the linux administration and processes and those things the more the gitlab as a product. So that's that's what I feel my senior.

E

You can look towards.

B

Excellent, very nice thanks uh thanks uh all including lyle um for the async coins. uh This is awesome uh because I know we do have a adam used to be my own body. Buddy uh adam was my onboarding buddy um and he used to try to tell me: don't try and learn everything else and you'll. Never you'll, never figure. All of the things out focus on a few things to start off with right and to slowly get the hang of other things.

B

Incidentally, I at first I thought this is rich coming from someone who seems to know everything, but but it makes sense now, yeah, okay, so.

E

It's like a it's like it's like a book that gets a new chapter every month,.

B

Yes, all right, so the next question being promoted can increase the pressure one put someone's self to perform at a higher level. How do you keep imposter syndrome at bay in your new role? Oh, that's a good question.

C

uh First of all, I just want to say imposter syndrome sucks like really hard and yeah. I I think I can speak to that. I mean coming from a development role into a support role.

C

I definitely felt impostor syndrome really strong as an intermediate support engineer, especially in the beginning days, and even I still deal with it today as a senior, and I think the main thing to take from imposter syndrome is you should let it empower you and realize that hey, I don't know everything.

C

So what can we do about that? Just treat every unknown as an opportunity to learn something new and just don't be shy or afraid to tell others hey. I don't know something, but maybe I can help you. Maybe I can point you in the right direction and I think that's really important. It's just acknowledging that foster syndrome is a thing, but there are ways of dealing with it and I don't think the strategies are any different from intermediate to senior, but just the same.

D

Yeah, I I pretty much agree with everything anton said: imposter syndrome is not fun and it is a. It is a serious problem. um I address it by constantly reminding myself and others that it's impossible to know everything. There's a great entry on our uh it's a sub value where it goes over. Basically yeah you're not expected to know everything.

D

uh In fact, we are expected to rely on others to help with the things that we don't know, and the other thing I do to help with imposter syndrome is admitting when I don't know, because I feel just admitting that I don't know something takes off some of the pressure like you, don't have imposter like legitimate, I'm not trying to be an imposter.

D

If I say I don't know, I'm being honest that I don't know and like anton said normally, I can help find next steps, but uh just admitting, when I don't know it takes some of the pressure off.

B

uh Thanks uh greg and anton uh lyles uh uh commented async again. um He is questioning the uh phrase performing at a higher level um because I think uh blouses, the more appropriate way could possibly be to say in wider areas of exposure.

B

So some of the situations you may handle as a senior aren't necessarily technically more challenging, but there are more people watching what you're doing right.

B

So you're looked up to more, which has responsibility, and it's scary to be in those big meetings with vp plus I'm not sure what that means. Somebody can help me with that uh from gitlab and other organizations. Our vp is vice president. Okay, maybe that's not what it means.

B

I try and remind myself that I'm a part of a team and then it's collaboration, that's going to win these hard situations more that more than individual amazingness. uh That was all kind. Thank you, carl.

B

Vp plus means like high level people right, I'm just gonna go with that. All right does any of the other city engineers have anything to say.

B

Now, let's go on to the next question: we're kind of uh running out of time.

B

Okay, so it seems somewhat common for people to be a bit unsure about making the move to be promoted, and it's not hard to find folks who took longer than others might have expected for them to be promoted if you're one of these people. If you experience this, how are things now that you have made the decision to be to proceed with being promoted?

B

Is there anything about the move to senior that you dislike.

D

So yeah for me, I one thing that I've struggled with. I won't say I dislike it, but I feel like moving to senior. I did take on some new roles and responsibilities, without necessarily discarding any of my previous roles and responsibilities.

D

So one thing I struggle with is prioritization and time management. It often feels like I have like I'm at 150 capacity, and I understand that realistically I could do maybe 90 to 100 of that. So when I set out to accomplish all the things inevitably, I find I can't accomplish all the things if I'm at 150 capacity, so at the end of the day it can leave me feeling, like I didn't, accomplish everything I wanted to or could have, and that can cause me to feel like I'm falling behind instead of moving things forward.

D

But this is something I'm actively working to improve uh and I have help and guidance from my manager so that that's the main thing for me.

B

Excellent, thank you. Thank you. Greg um we've got a minute or less than a minute left for anybody. I mean we can still do this async as well. Does anybody does any of the other city engineers want to add something.

B

No excellent, all right so uh now we're just going to open the floor up to random questions from the I'm just kidding. We're not going to do that um we're at times. So you know the city engineers are always available to have coffee, chats and stuff with and there's always the same engineer hours and all of that stuff as well. So um definitely keep asking these questions. These are good, good things.

B

I'm going to stop recording now.