Giveth Transparency Team, 16 Jun 2017

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From YouTube: System Analysis through Users Discussion led by Griff

Description

The fourth part of our Youtube special on the Giveth Berlin Team Meetup.

Griff walks us through different user profiles to explain system and discuss intricacies.

A

Adam is an anonymous donor, not very much not for us. We know. I was great well Adam. He just wants to donate to a cause all right. He just likes cousins. He doesn't really want to follow things. He just wants to know that it's going somewhere and be able to look it up maybe later, but he's not gonna participate anymore.

A

I'm, just gonna throw the money in and watch that go somewhere. Pat well call him nah, he's more of a passive acceptance. Congregate.

A

And we'll go through this story, it's really shortened. He sends his money and either he is assigned a delegate. He gets an email, doesn't even look at it doesn't kick and then the delegate sends his stuff out so hopeful this delegates, David good old Dave, ah so David's gonna, send it to another guy into another. Guy there'll be lots of emails generated Adam doesn't care, he just gets me just scented ether.

A

He wants to make sure it goes to a good place and then it's going to and then eventually when it does get spent by a campaign he gets tokens. He gets a kind of uh I, don't know what I'm talking about we'll call him her war stuff since right now, but it's not house and we're like governance tokens and that's the story cuz there is there more to this story. It's my first attempt at these our story.

A

B

What's that take the lead well, can we can we narrow down the interaction which is this thing yeah? He does not sure, but the system does something.

A

A system different does lots of stuff, but that's the important part no historian is just done with eating that he even that even he's.

C

Not looking at his own watch, we're here at some point, should be able to see where his money is so I think that he should meet like that era. Now, maybe it's a year records for babies.

C

Yeah, it's like.

A

A

A

C

A

Illustrating the passive acceptance guy and so that we can design for him because, honestly, this is most charity donors. Right now, when you donate to Salvation Army and the Santa's ringing a bell, you throw.

C

A

Are you are you checking on anything I mean this is Adam is actually the real than existing leasing by numbers for sure. So we can say heave welcome.

B

To give me another person, and she let that scare, you definitely can this man, even a superstar she's. Actually, the.

A

Person who doesn't donate to charity because she doesn't know where her money goes and that bugs the hell up, and thus this is kind of who we're catering more towards honestly. At least this is like who are building the system, for, although we have to cater for happened to, which is why it's probably probably better that, when someone comes back to check their system, they go strait to the donation page, and you know that's.

B

You know yeah. My argument is that I don't actually wants to be I think that if any donor action wants to know, but they just someday won't.

A

Meet some people ties for the harity right. There is 10% because God told me to and I don't really care, I just do what God says you know and like that's a lot of people really a high.

B

B

Yeah I mean: do you blame? What is it? Was the man when.

A

You, when you go to their donation page, do you want to see pop-ups about what they're doing.

B

Or do you just want to get that donate button? They send me.

B

I, usually don't yeah I would nice to recite it yeah.

A

And we have lots of emails because there's money moving.

C

Around oh I think you need to check I'm going to check it because many Mitch that you throw money you know for for, though they shared okay, maybe that the money goes to two weapons company.

C

Do you need to be a word that more or less sad I? Don't think that you go in the table so on, but yeah I see that more or less the things are going on and I think it really like a check once every few month, once every year, once every 50 years? Okay, all this more live like giving right spending more or less goes in the right direction, so report every report, a monthly report, maybe would be good or well.

A

So Adam doesn't care. Eve cares both of them get the same. You know both of them get the same notifications right every every time. The money moves anywhere. Adam and Eve will both be notified. Items not gonna. Take any action. Just cuz I had a passive acceptance. He's a big guy. Eve has a different story. So when Eve gets her emails, she reads them and she judges them right, breathe, email, I, don't have any spam.

A

C

Girl takes it down.

A

To zero every day you know.

A

So she she is going to actually be active. She's an active donors she's not like David.

A

We started out as Adam became Eve and then became a registered owner.

A

And then a delegates right, but she's, an active donor which is kind of the next step right.

A

You've got an email and she knows the exact same things. She also donates today, but she actually will receive that email and she will go talk to David.

A

So she actually needs a way to communicate to David, and this is going to be really important and how that happens. It's gonna change a lot as what you bought right now. Maybe it's even else right or more likely, it's probably through slack or some group like that. I, like the idea of opening a slack channel for every campaign that we have at first, so that we can actually analyze what's happening and what enough people go to it and communicate on the give us slack.

A

So we can actually observe this right, even though slavery trade, for instance, has their own slack. So he's gonna be active. She's gonna talk to those she's gonna go inside she's gonna. Ask him questions. What are you guys doing this money? You know well, weren't, were you? What are you doing or maybe she'll be more like? Oh man?

A

How else can I help I want to donate money, but I also, maybe there's something I, my area that I can help and I can even like receive some of my money back because I'm I'm incentivizing myself to do things right and it's not necessarily her money. She's sending a little bit, but then she also might work for the crew as well, so she's, very active and then but first of course she goes through David.

A

The name is just a delegate: David is gonna, send her to slavery, trade and once she gets to slavery, trade right.

A

Then shoot then she's gonna have Bryan not bring. Who is, who is gonna, be her new delegate and she's gonna. Actually talk to Brian is gonna have a conversation right. None of this happens on our smart contracts, but it does need to be mediated.

A

Okay, so then her money will end up going straight to a milestone and being locked there until the milestones complete and of course she will get notified of her three-day window that she can take money out and then she will end up. You know, leaving it in will say and Brian will get paid out and then she will receive token so call his reward talking. That's what I hate them.

A

C

A

C

A

Has you know if it would be nice if we see that she's active? If that somehow we could recommend that she become a registered owner? Maybe we hide it at the end of every email or message stuff.

A

And a registered owner is not that one. Is that not that crazy? Thank you. So it's it might sound like. Oh, my god, I have to register. Well, maybe we need a new name for that, because all it is is filling out like almost like a Facebook profile. I think this is my and honestly you don't even have to do that. They could just be because they could be.

A

It could be less than a Facebook profile. I mean it could be like a Facebook profile. When you open a Facebook profile, you fill out a description. Maybe, but maybe some people just leave a blank. They don't put a picture. They don't do anything, it's totally fine. So so even gets this email. She doesn't do anything she's, happy being active donor, but David wasn't Adam, he wasn't Eve and then he became a registered donor right.

A

Actually. Well you someone else. Besides. David is another good name.

B

A

We need someone in between Thomas Davis, because Patrick is just like Eve, but registers decides to be like more socially involved and have like an official. You know me mean but identity having an identity in the system because I, don't even they I mean, do they don't have clothes right, they're, not there they're not actually going to participate in society. They just Patrick. However, he wants to play the game so he's going to register.

A

And god I hate, the word register so will happen, but he's gonna have to give up. This is a dress which is easy. All these guys to deal with their addresses without even thinking about it because they donated ether and ether comes from an address. So Adam is no one actually knows his name's Adam. They know him is 0, X denotes a D wow. We can almost get there. 3 right and Eve is actually 0. X.

A

B

A

Patrick used to be, you know: 0 X, I, don't know like the noggin or something 97 right, but.

A

But now he's Patrick right. He goes from being just an analyst actually come in the name which, and all of these guys actually have a history. But his history of the tots.

B

A

B

A

B

Repetition, that's.

A

Right connecting what's to connect up a person, so they wait. My contact is those.

A

Contact info, which might be you know, I'm Patrick, Patrick, on the good side.

A

Is also probably going to quickly be I, you know some random. The name like this on set aside gosh, oh yeah, hoorah. Sorry we're doing the hackathon right now. So it's hard not to think of status. Just conscious, don't look yeah anything anything.

A

He could just straight up, give his key base account and then boom he's got all that information there so and then, potentially he could throw down in deposits. I don't think he will those, but if he wants to be a delegate, I have a feeling we don't need to, and this is definitely something I want to talk about on whether or not it Patrick wants to become David.

B

A

Now some other things about Patrick that I'm trying to ignore is I'm having you Porter's, you might have lice. Nobody takes some reputation systems. Maybe the swarm City reputation system right, because the city's going to do some hash tagging. Maybe they got some kind of games going.

C

A

All sorts of information- oh and the big one- is a fully missing anyway. These days, the description, no Patrick I mean the thing is we're not gonna ID anybody, his name could actually be built. Maybe.

A

You know the description like a profile like you know: I'm, Patrick and I'm, an alcoholic.

B

A

I just want to support entomologist, so I like this. For you know, al-anon I like to support 12-step program I like to support a you know: Narcotics Anonymous. This is what Patrick's into you know his donation profiling. What what does he like- and this is really useful- this is what Yves should probably be like Patrick, because their delegates will get this information and they're like.

A

Oh that's what this guy likes right, because the goal here is to 1 is to create a social platform almost around giving right to build a community so that you know Patrick and David can like have a little chitchat like yeah man. I really want to support Ellen on you know, I feel bad for people who I used to be an alcoholic for them. I made it out, and now I really want to like help, people that were damaged by alcoholism in their lives, and so then David's gonna help him because he's a game.

A

Patrick is actually a CEO. He's he's a functional alcoholic right, and so he did great and he's got actual duties like he's making. You know five hundred came here. It would actually see a larger charity organization. Isn't that great making lots of money and he can't he can't just abandon that to actually start like I mean people that donate to so he's going to entrust that to David.

A

So david has to put down the closet now I'm still I'm, I, honestly I, don't want to do that, but I.

C

Think that for Stickley being in the system, it's not necessary but for being promoted and said just for of chaining for any of chain, obesity or any of chain. For us, the people that are not registered in some way for us are like for the system, slightest powers, yeah. Okay, it's like what thing is: keep we see from the spark. What's our point of view, I would say you know if we say from the given organization point of view, I would say yes absolutely this. The.

A

This administration has nothing to do with Smart Objects somebody, maybe the deposit.

A

So description will include the tax ladies into, and maybe that may be tagging. This is own categories Thanks, so you have his description in words and then he's got this like hot /, hot keywords, okay, and that will make it really easy to do his little portfolio, but.

B

A

B

Get the text you.

A

B

Them like he's an animal hectic categories like wow I like lions, FFF. Oh, it's a bike because text can be.

A

C

They there, okay, okay. For me when I think that's the facts have like two boards, how's, the let's say: oh okay, I'm back!

C

So when someone has a meet with somebody, someone that backing okay- maybe everybody has his second back myself. Okay, so I have liked Jordi, I'd, say: Jordi is Lions, join the animals, don't be that way? Okay, but maybe greets a little bow organization that and that's okay, that's like and a lot of people that say: okay, I, do my own structure a my own, tiny, and that is this this through step of this with high reputation that will pack the things, and maybe you have the same campaign, but maybe you can have different types.

C

We have different persons. Okay, you know this is a kind of giving reputation. So if you get the tech manuals from someone that just somebody that checking that he can get a reputation plan, so it's going to be like that. Maybe greased up penguins I mean that grease, that's even worse. Problems, gonna be a good reputation, particles. This.

A

Sounds very much like what city those are their hashtags right. Someone owns a hashtag.

A

C

I was saying just to be by that in two parts: okay, that's everything, because the I like the name, so it's like put the tack and who tagged it yeah, and this altogether great, is like so.

A

Unique so Lions according to grace and lions, the current Wojtek will be two different tags.

B

Because define yourself to students, when you won't put your own study, you put, maybe you know animal from there, you put the a and I, and then it gives you already what's in the system that is similar to animal or has to be the first three letters are the same.

A

B

Then you can see whether you need to build on that or you know, create the first yeah.

A

And I definitely won't people will create their own attacks and maybe that just ends up this bunch of like somewhat spam and in our UI yeah.

C

You know you can get you as you can pray that this campaign is going to be target, that, if you say, animals, okay, animals without their.

A

So so, there's tags that are registered in your user account, but then there's you tagging another another campaign and saying this is for lions. According Patrick.

B

And what about, for instance, at the timing, has some kind of bull be okay, so you can quote easy studies well,.

C

The owner of attack, the owner of attack, can be a person again or can be as well. It's not my crime. We thought this go Berlin six time, Friday night.

B

Mrs. like complex like, if you want to do this tagging, which I agree that we need a way have to create the tags, but we also need to allow other people to create an attack. I, don't.

A

B

It's that, like people, would check who does this come from? They would check the total amount. So if twenty five people tagged this campaign s being animals, then it's meat, something versus.

C

Again, we are just we're not saying who we are here. We are not saying who we are going to use the tax tagging.

A

Targeting causes are very similar concept and we're gonna have to pick one.

A

C

A

Absolutely I mean in the end, by the end, by the end of this weekend, we need to pick one or the other.

B

A

If we don't settle on it, then we have such a distributed team that some people are going to be working towards tags and some people will be working towards cost causes. We just put it.

B

A

For the UI, well, we got to stick one for the oh, oh we don't. We don't even try it. Try it it's not in the scope. Well,.

B

That's in the next.

A

That's the next topic so.

B

First, we go through.

A

The stories and then we'll talk about whether what's.

B

Hot now, if that's coming in three years, I'm.

A

Already half of this tagging thing will be a short one.

A

B

A

We're going back to David and he's a delegate right. She registered, he did all the Patrick stuff right and then he actually has decided to go to a cause or attack all right, we'll see who knows, but he's he's going to focus solely on picking other people right he's not actually gonna send money to a place that spends money. David used to be, he used to work for a UNICEF and he didn't really like it.

A

He felt like it was too bureaucratic and we didn't really like the way things were working behind the scenes he didn't like magnified either. He actually wanted to. You know, go to Thailand and this hang out because he has some money.

A

You know he doesn't mean he does this for fun right, so he researches how to save the world like that's what he's into, but he doesn't actually want to do it himself he's not he's not, and he just hangs out in Thailand sips mai tais, his laptop, so David is going to be connected to Patrick. He's probably gonna be very active on social media right he's, gonna be talking about all the different things that all the different projects that are out there.

A

You know he's gonna, be active.

A

He's he's a campaign manager anhedonia, so you know he was. He was originally Adam. He quickly was a delegate and because his whole target was always to distribute electricity more efficient.

A

So he's trying to make sure that smart meters are working really cool like he. He feels like there's a lot of wasted energy he's an environmentalist right and he's trying. The way that he wants to you know, stop global warming or whatever is to try to make an efficient market around electrical distribution. I know he's a random weird guy right, so he actually has a couple thing. A couple projects that he likes to donate to one is smart: smart, smart meter, research right and smart wiener awareness will say.

A

And this is a small case. I, don't know that's the best, but this is what Austin's into you know and so yeah.

A

He has a project that he is supporting and you know he says that in his in his description and on social media, he's always putting it out there on Twitter about how he's really excited for LA to get down with smart meters, because there's so much wasted electricity, because people don't know right, and so he has he's supporting a project and that project has a specific specified mountains, which were you know, put out there and I. He might even be he's, actually works for a company that will actually receive some of this money.

A

Okay, it's almost incestuous right. He receives.

A

So this is a really interesting use case, because this is gonna happen a lot and that's why there isn't gonna say me because I do this? Okay, um so the campaign manager he's got a deposit he has. The Delia says he has all this stuff he's active on social media, but he also has a specific project that he himself receives money from.

A

Maybe it's just to run the project and do the giveth campaign, or maybe it's actually he's leaving the whole thing right, but in a way he's his project and his milestones are all accountable to a reviewer and we're gonna call this reviewer.

A

Well, if you guys have any more questions about us, don't have a question about.

B

A

B

Have a question about it, though it is in general, okay, so delegate it's a registered owner! Yes, who took them deposit, yeah,.

A

And like that, he becomes delegate for one.

B

A

These are delegate in the system. He can be a delegate for anything, so he can.

B

Tag himself into any project and that burn money from that yeah.

A

He can that's a great one. David is the choose process to support or choose tags like this, we'll stick with the tag.

B

A

You should be in SS money as you want.

B

Yeah and can send all the money to we're going to destroy the world.

A

B

A

Don't think the world of web site.

A

That's innovation ie, especially.

C

At least one David is writing that maybe I'm wrong, but they just separate very much a delegate to the donor. So even.

B

C

Isn't delegating it's a bummer for me, we have like two profiles. Why that's a bell or because it's relating something? First of all, you have your profile of the learn and then, like you, have quite a different profile, even if it's controlled, with the same account that you have a little profile density and you can't go happy friend, delegate profiles but I check and maybe I'm not sure on that. But for me, was like it's like for different worlds: sweet rewards to different persons.

C

Okay, what they delayed is one thing: well, he'll, delegate, I'm, not that kind of delay. Nothing.

B

C

Wait: okay, fine I'm, a dog, okay, of course, with a simple code: I can be a delegate of the dollar, but it's like a how to profiles. Yeah.

A

Well, in the end it as a David as a donor, if he wants to delegate his own money, I mean it's almost silly for him to do that, because I mean technically, he would say.

A

He's already can donate directly to us. He doesn't need to make himself a delegate first and then well then I.

C

Was it's not the same? Transferring that was very you know air from one balloon another to one box to another cover, but I'm, just doing a normal transfer and just giving value to you I'm, giving to a delegate if I'm giving to a dollar, and just it's like I'm, sending money to you. Okay, if I'm a delegate friend, maybe you are delegating I'm delegating.

B

A

David sends money to paws. Does it delegate it's a very different thing than when you don't need stuff exactly yeah.

C

100%, so you know what maybe I don't like that make sense and use new interface a whole week, all the things, but from.

A

You know, which I think it does. I think that.

C

A

Delegate is going to user interface and the donors on their face. There.

C

A

Different pages I mean it's gonna, be like this red.

C

Master control fail or violence in the system, half of the list of Delegates and his decease and the list of dollars, and you.

B

Know the Facebook have different accounts right, so utopias one person or you talk is the other person exactly got.

A

Different things, it's.

B

Different, it's like in facebook, you have your personal profile and then you have the group of page crew, narration you're, a manager of the screw page, and you can post as a manager of.

A

B

But you are right: the guard.

C

Goes to person.

B

C

You are to profiles.

A

C

Will be their delegates or dollars? Yes from the air like different pieces, you can not be with the same profile.

A

B

Have as many profiles does, they have addresses and render or.

C

Even if you want many many many many profiles with this one, otherwise you can be like.

A

Three dollars because you want to separate for whatever I think what we're saying is this. What you're saying is that you would like to have a delegate like pie, chart right and then the donor pie charts as as David David would like to see. You know where his money is going he's.

C

Donating but then he also sees.

A

Where his money is going, where he's telling you and they're two separate to never mixing processes and okay, but we gotta get to Oz right, because Oz is just the same as David and he probably as a delegate. You know he could delegate some money. If David sent him this, he doesn't have to put it into this project. He could delegate it off right so he's because he has all of these functions.

A

To I mean we're just it's just like we're adding functions as we go right and so now I can, you know, donate to give it cuz. He loves, given you know so he's got another one. He loves this thing.

A

But he will probably but either way so he's right now he's making the money off of the smart meter. So you know he can do both things and but when he actually puts things in the projects you know he might actually have I, don't know that we'd make a pie chart, but this would almost be like a new pie, chart right projects and milestones that he invested it silver that we talked okay, those delegate some projects.

C

B

C

Of course, the projects have the manager on the reviewer, so.

A

Here's the question just honest: does: does the campaign have this, because this is only one delegate to this campaign? There's also, you know the belly, do you?

A

Who else is in your Jason, Jason, okay, so Jason is also a delegate right and he's probably CTO or something like about it, but he is where he puts all the discipline or what projects he's allocated the funds that have been delegated to him for and the funds that have been donated to him for like, and you know it's he we're gonna have a separate, or is it only for the campaign's that has this and the delegates? Actually don't we don't track that secure.

C

Thoughts were hot, but I would have another profile because in he make also even okay, he would be have a delegate profile. Okay, he will have and there would be a project of whom he would be the project manager, okay, okay, so that, but the objects that we have here is okay. You have the dollar profile, we have a delegate profile, they have a project profile, I think this project profile. He would be the one.

A

Wait so, okay sure he might be the project manager of this, for whatever Jason Jason tone. This project.

B

So why does everything.

C

B

So, in the same page have just everything but.

A

Definitely for I, don't know his hands. Do you have you have both of these pie charts on the same you can't combine because, like these are things you donated to, and this is other people's money. Oh.

B

B

Well, I mean I think that in the end, it will be oh I'm I'm this person. This is my name and I, have dis, eater, address and busy to address and easy to address, and all these addresses combined will create this crap, alright yeah and it should probably find out, which is your money that you donated and which is the money delegated this yeah.

A

You can find out and.

B

Attaining create a chart out of it yeah.

A

And the thing is that we're gonna attract a lot of things eventually right. So what if he delegates to two projects and they're constantly being taken back by the higher up right? The donors that actually put in there are rejecting his delegations right. We need to track that because that's part of his reputation and same with odds here like what, if he keeps donating projects that Beck's keeps rejecting that's something different right.

A

That's a different thing to try! It's important to see those differences, because this guy is trying to spend money on projects that are failing, and that's really bad. This guy is just not communicating very well to Patrick. You know like they should be a little closer he's, saying, Patrick's money to like Ethiopia and he's the Patrick's about like no, oh, you know Alcoholics Anonymous, you know that's another different thing: I've been trying to blow money on smart meters, which is.

A

Okay, so now we have a key unless we want to go deeper into that. I think this is again something that's out of scope for the next session or for the next, like it may be very shitty. Okay, do we want to go deeper in this? Everyone leave it a lot bigger this their backs. Okay, back to in a while years.

A

Okay, so backs is a reviewer. Now this is totally different. This is so different from the rest of them. Here we have a nice stepwise progression, yet Adam Eve Patrick David Oz, but, as has been all of these things, you know Patrick, they have all kind of stepped foot backs. She doesn't even know what you came up, givethe really right. She doesn't necessarily have to do she isn't. She does have to have some kind of profile, basically just an address right.

A

Right yeah well I mean she have an address because well she's a reviewer right, but that doesn't have to have anything else really, because the reviewer could also be horrible, could be it down and it's, but all these things could have all it could be that right, these delegates can be dowels and stuff, but I think that's less likely, then for a reviewer. So maybe so maybe they do need some of these things. Like you got a wonder, you register it. Maybe we still make them put down. What's this stuff.

A

You know how'd, she end up being a reviewer she's chosen by us or whoever remember the project managers. We, when someone tells a project, they have to say who the reviewers where's.

C

The money sheriff, listen, everyone yeah, you create the project, you have to define for the name. The description of the project.

A

I mean in Oracle if the project is literally doubling the amount of money. That's in this campaign, it's just a smart contract and I. Don't necessarily think that if you just put in a dress with the no description that that should send up red flags in our system right, that's like whoa what the hell's going on you know they can still. Maybe our UI doesn't allow them to do that right. Maybe the UI says no, you must fill in a description.

A

You must do these things and that's something I want to think about, but if they skip our UI and go to the smart contract player, it's just a mattress. I mean all these guys are just addresses right. Oh, you can technically skip all of this smart contract, but I think especially for the reviewer. The reviewer could be President of Somalia right like and this guy. He doesn't need to do all this stuff.

A

Maybe he has somebody, do it, but he's a president Somalia all you've got to do is verify his key on the president Somalia, that's in the description and it's like I'm just trying to get federal aid here, yeah. You know, and this is how we're going to do it. It's a good campaign. So it sorry he's not getting thorough. He's just gonna sign up on whatever this happened, because he doesn't receive money most of.

B

Them but he allows it to be yeah.

A

He's the one thing this happened, or it didn't happen, this project is continuing on or this project is a failure and we should not do any more. His main thing is: he cancels projects in.

B

Every day, without project us, that means you know, they're sitting, you know far away, doesn't know whether it has been and everything are being sent over a photo that you don't know if it that person should be able to, of course,.

B

B

Some of them away to this place that well.

A

That's a major issue right, that's where we have an arbitrator which is the next user, but that's just us. You know what I.

B

Would love to see you have a project in China and you're building there something there and then the reviewer will appear to you according to the location, and you would have a list of reviewers that I can actually go in your.

C

Can also be a 103 to see ya.

A

I imagine a lot of reviewers coming from not so much a list, but the chat room, okay, a chat room with people that are talking to each other, like you know, somebody's really active, maybe it's like a David or not that has their own little project. What they're like come in the system and the way yeah man I'll review, I'll check this out. What's up? Okay, so maybe.

B

It's an opportunity because you said that the reviewers, the toughest thing that we need to find right, we're talking about trying to need to build the cultures. You know you know most permissionless and everyone's free, your the culture, get anything that what if we make through your it like we make the reviewer like a job description and you kind of have to like we choose a bunch reviewers.

B

Well, okay, you can choose any as your viewers, but then one wants to become a reviewer just fill out this thing and say why you should be reviewer and we kind of control. This I want the controller's job work, but we promote this pool of reviewers. That's just you know a subset of people that initially we found ourselves that represent our values or contact that kind of hire them on. And then we let the project managers choose from this list and if they're all over the world, it was like yeah.

B

It makes sense to choose the one. That's next to you like the tie line, this guy's a great guy. He kind of he submitted his stuff, so he kind of got from who, so he can be reviewer yeah. We don't think he read our blog very nice to know I mean maybe we send up a tester for the need pass about 15. Other 20 are my laws of.

A

No, no nothing well. So the issue is that some of these projects are going to be very specialized and it's like you know the smart meter. One right. You know whether or not you got smart meter awareness out there I mean, maybe anyone can do it, but what, if there's another milestone? That's like, then, we just on this farm, sure correctly right and is it passing the specs, and you know at the beginning, I think I'm gonna have to beginning right now for slavery.

A

Trade I'm, the reviewer they're gonna, have to prove to me that you know that they actually team it milestones and, and that's a that's, a good reviewer, because I told them many times I'm going to reject their if they gonna get it done. Okay, guys I mean it's important to me that our first charity is actually achieving their goals.

A

Yeah, so I'm motivated in the right way and I do think that you're that we that it probably makes a lot of sense to require reviewers that have a lot of these things, and maybe even deposits right I mean it is.

A

It could be that reviewers have to be register covers yeah or they have to complete the registration, even if they don't donate I think we make sense, especially to start, but we make people fill out this stuff to be a reviewer and even if their reviewers in Oracle, someone has to like put up a description and put up their address, probably show that their is verified on either skin I. Don't want just bytecode out there. I want to know that this one contracts us so it would be I think that makes sense. I.

B

Think the wheels can be something easy. Yes, you need to check it. Something is done, I mean someday, it's only in Somalia, for instance, and it's some like it's committing a cold that it's a hash. So it's good! You need to a little disco that is it, but your little disco I need you send by text or by mail to love a person and with this code will be in.

A

The way yeah so may.

B

I know which tiny ways to go.

B

A

This opens up to a lot of.

B

Boundaries Akane on your head, yeah.

A

B

A

Is not very creative, but now because your school power.

C

Yeah, for me, I will keep this very, very, very simple. Without just the project, greater just define the network and project. If you want to sound approach regularly, if you want to spend approach and you want the project to be funded, so it's to have fun, kids be worse, so the project will be will be good will show. So you will send an address and we will prove that that address belongs to somebody or a set of somebody.

C

So it's good to see where the scheme humor came or what or an Oracle or whatever, but it's the job of the project, what the day funeral project and to prove that this Ruby, where it's going to be a body to be work yeah. It's good that, of course, that if you have the, if we we can set a pool of reviewers that are crucial if.

B

We don't sell it I think it.

C

Become anyway, you know the people really think. So it's it's easy to facilitate all the projects to have like this. You know present people that that's fine, okay, but at the end the last word is from the project owners and he decides. If you choose one of these or he beef with Monaco or yeah, or do you just create a new one and show them the.

A

Project owner and the person collecting the milestones or whatever these guys are, the left are the people who picked the reviewer and the donors are the annum. Delegates are the people who send money to the project now, of course, this opens us up to a lot of fraud right like what, if you know, the delegates are all actually the same person with different identities and the reviewer is the same person in identity and they're. All the.

B

A

And they trick Adam, who is passive? They somehow get access to response and they go there. Well.

C

That's why at some point, maybe the kitties were I, don't should be notified, wouldn't be something but I don't get notified all the way through just yeah.

A

But good to kind.

C

Of odd kind of a shot-caller, let's say there is a scam, yeah, okay, there's a fraud so yeah you should be aware, because maybe I don't know, carry the things more or less close okay, but they keep the recent problem. It is in our controller property cares like hey. You know that you.

A

Of course, yeah scam alert money has been stamped but see, that's scary, because do we want to be or not give it to do that we don't want to tell people what they receive.

B

That we actually.

C

Receive a special notification: okay or something when he's funding of Russia got a lot of people is just screaming about that body. Yeah, okay, just put the project and more than 50% of the defendant, but if occasionally.

B

Okay, hey guys, you.

C

Are doing money, it's not magic. You're still, you're still able to remove that anything, but mostly people just have to move man just take a look yeah. If you.

A

C

Their with them, let's take a look at something, is happening there yeah. So this is interesting.

A

Special notifications.

A

Just like I mean you know it really sucks, because this is a big.

C

A

To the ico system, right and I've seen some major scams and they still get millions of dollars yeah so and and this this sucks- and this is a problem with our system- I'm not gonna lie. This is a huge problem, but it's also a problem. That's in the charity world today, right I would.

C

Say more its problem on this improvisation? Okay, civilization is not a war violence, yeah.

A

C

It's a war for active people yeah, so the people means yeah getting deep, getting in big part of the of the community yeah.

C

So that's why I like the Adam profile in the first chance, so you can be more passive in the sense that I you need to spend less and we delegate more okay, but maybe it's Group a there Adam, yes little democracy, okay, I give the money to just one guy and I. Just control like that: okay, I, don't I, don't give too many it just I have.

A

This conversation, remember, I, don't want partial donation today, I want one delegate sending like parts of these people formations for the exact reason. It's it's a. There is a lot of value in trying to keep interpersonal connections, and that's this whole time. You know Beck's and I have an actual relationship. They talk to each other in the real world. Sometimes these guys are both in LA. Actually, the max moved to Boston, but they're, both in LA right a lot of the time, so they can and they they know each other in real life and they're.

A

Having a conversation and Becks is also active on social media and other people know her and they and that's why she's a good report for this project and they because they know that you know, even though their friends that they actually that she will lose her reputation and as much as like trying to automate a lot of things. I mean to us. That's that's important. I still think that the most important thing is to build community the wrong causes and that's like Nicole, and then a lot of this review process and.

B

A

Should be happening on the slack on status I am there should be honest, sending pictures of them out there passing out fliers. You should be sending. You know, live-streaming, like talks that he's giving in libraries and stuff that everyone can see on these things. Just like we are right now. This is why it is so important to me that we lifestream this because we got money from Adam Eve, Patrick David. We we've actually received money from all sorts of people on her slack, and so it's just small.

A

So it's big and I want to prove that we're using this, because there's a lot of expenses this weekend and if we don't live stream this. How are we going to improve to the people that actually can gain for us all? Fly here eat this food. You know so like we have. We are held accountable by the fact that we are. Actually you know we. We are open-source charity and we're going to put out there hey. We spent money on this and right now, I think I'm, the reviewer right.

A

So that's kind of lame, but maybe everyone with a gibbets hoping, maybe the reviewer is it going to quickly become dalla fie and everyone that has giveth tokens could actually vote and reject and reject rejects this. This thing would be like: did your expenses are ridiculous? What you know this is why we didn't go to Geneva. We came to Berlin cheaper right, like I. You know the expenses are ridiculous. You guys didn't get anything done and you in fact, for all I know you guys just hung out at my apartment.

A

I had a party, no, no, we actually have a live stream. They can see or planning this me and that's what I you know this is. This is the this is the system you know. This is why it's so important for this kind of transparency right and then very short, who you know who cases a reviewer when we have this kind of thing going.

A

Okay, so let's see there is another, there is more to say about the reviewer I'm sure I, don't I mean.

B

Basically did reviewer two problems: I see: okay, it's. What is the delegate we delicate can get shut down at any point by whoever donated the money, but the review account yeah. The reviewer is specific to the campaign. So if it's as campus, as can campaign into spam, reviewer well.

A

Okay, so that is one check.

B

And the only like, I don't see the reason why anyone would want to be a reviewer. What makes them want to be reviewer. That's.

A

On their time, thank.

B

A

Much studying actually but some structure for the role. Yes, exactly.

A

A

Okay, so the incentive.

B

Structure for the reviewer.

A

Is going to be okay.

B

I am making it up as you go. You.

A

Know this is like the biggest question in given and I've literally sat down for an hour and just like I wish. I had a piece of paper. I have no idea what country anymore, but it was in London.

A

B

A

It is okay, so different story, though.

A

There's so many options, so what.

B

Do you guys think, let's say the first one like yeah, he gets paid because.

A

Beck's gets paid by either reviewer right, so okay, first I want to say the first one is Beck's works for free, because I think this is going to be the most successful and common.

B

A

But we're talking.

B

About incentives and if he effects for free he doesn't mean oh.

A

B

Click on on committee leaders, for instance, yeah look at once. Two things get down well, I think it's a kind of perfect, so they.

C

B

They some kind of recognition because there's.

B

A

I mean I'm not going to get paid by slavery, trick to write. I may be I, have internal incentives.

B

Yeah you should get faced by these donors, not this retreat. Well,.

A

That's gonna say so. This is gonna, be that's another issue.

B

So you put as a bullet point reputation. So what if we plugged into like, like a new future scenario, like call me iOS API for like reputation like here, here's another place where you can gain reputation, that you can export to another service or fine like that. I think that's really good, but that's like that looks like a way stretch. Bowl.

B

And we'll there only be one reviewer or a project. Yes,.

A

Just well or a project, there was one reviewer for it, but that one reviewer could be a multi-sig of six people, one of six okay right, but there's one reviewer and that reviewer could be multiple humans. But it is a list of people is one address and that's important, because it's really difficult to.

C

Do anything maybe the reviewer is like on another campaign he's like Ruby were skipping okay, see.

A

This is and this that's where that's where I was this.

C

A

Was thinking for the Dow he's.

C

Great I think that what just say it's about about the community of reviewers, something like that. Yeah.

A

Okay, so okay, so I.

C

A

I want to get to that one blast: okay, let's look at the problems of the other, most obvious ones, and then we'll get to why we probably have I Dow four reviewers in the eventualities.

A

Okay, so god I wish my hair anything suck okay. So now we have so FX works for free most, the time reputation. Maybe she wants to build herself up as a reviewer, because that's a probable business right or maybe she has some internal incentives specifically around this stuff happening. Like she's, a donor. You know.

A

And you know kind of like how I would have wanted. One of our main donors to Optus be are are active. You know, I would love for people who don't eat big, to get to give it to be our viewers because they have the best incentive right, unless, of course, this is still a problem, because what if they actually are just trying to get to spin our wheels live, we don't that she.

A

What if like UNICEF, becomes our biggest donor and then they actually also become a reviewer, and they just want to shut our project down because we're competing right. So I can easily accept this great all people or even stuff that are great I'm. So sorry, it's just like of the biggest charity and in a way we're competing with them, and maybe their internal incentives are wrong and that you know they could actually use this as a way to just screw us right. Thank god, there's arbitrators, which I'll get to one day.

A

Okay, so let's go back to bets or gets paid by.

A

The paid by us well, this is how regulation works right now in the United States of America right so as much as I love, how the regulatory system in the US- and there are some fatal flaws, which is basically thanks worse for us. What is excellent when you work for somebody are you trying to you know piss them off? Thank.

A

You know this is vex. Vex is directly incentivized to pass this project, so that's kind of shitty right and then what if we do, sex is paid by donors.

A

Well, this has the opposite incentive structure, because how does that payment work right and how does this payment work? Just facts get paid whether or not she votes yes or no on a project. Obviously, for this one right and thing for this, one probably gets paid voting, yes or no, but isn't it interesting just know every time because then she probably will get. Oh man like like I'm, really protecting you guys, you know but like well. For us he did a great job.

A

Not it doesn't they paid for it because well she can actually become a reviewer for another campaign or just keep saying no, you know she's doctor no and it doesn't. The incentive is structured wrong for both now what if they both pissed right and like half and half compete. That could be an answer right, but in the end, that's the same. That's actually the same.

A

B

Of like a small percentage of the whole project, like did what's actually in the project poor, because we have labor cost and time and self and review is giving this time and it's probably traveling, also or something so yeah. These people probably need money to operate. Oh yeah, like it depends on the project like I. Think the project should supply the proof, of course, because they're always at the source, yeah and but for some things that might be not know, might not be possible, so the reviewer has to go somewhere or yes to you know.

B

A

In the end, sometimes they're like we're not going to enforce one model or the next right, the reviewer gets paid or not, and that's that's a thing, but for our beginning culture and its scope, we do kinda pick one and pick a style. I definitely want to pick this.

A

For free I, don't want a reviewer to be paid by them. I don't want the donors to have to throw money to a reviewer, necessarily if it is a milestone, you know which is actually what I was gonna, do for blockchains, calm right and our bulk of it. So they're gonna put.

C

A little milestone.

A

For Rey, who is reviewing with me and they're auditing a little bit, but they prefer not to they actually work for free, because they're going to who knows right and there's also legal issues with accepting money from a smart contract. It's easy not to right, Southworth it! So so here's the issue if we just combine the two it's still basically from auspice. Oh, it's just adds that to the top you.

C

A

It doesn't actually he's they're the one doing the work and in the end they still end up with this sort of relationship and then what something it backs is still incentivized to say: yes does, maybe she wouldn't get the milestone that house is put in for her right, and you know you still have this this- that you have the same incentive issues.

B

You are a fully dedicated person to do that and you take it seriously. So you have before.

A

B

What is actual, every milestone has a dedicated amount. This is going to go to reviewer, no matter what he's going to say. Yeah.

A

One person goes through, but no.

B

More, that's an obvious it man, so you can't even say point five who wants.

A

To review one monster point five goes to this reviewer, but that itself incentivizes, scam projects right now.

B

A

Is a scam, oh my god, so this.

B

Can be a more project today, yeah it's a job. He recruited.

A

B

Is some of my reputations on the experiencer? You darest lots to lose water, so we are talking about the very responsible person. I mean if there's something wrong like radio can have, it seems like there can be multiple the repercussions without the reviewer even intending on scanning anybody- or you know, just like being on the other side.

B

But if you, if you want to think of the future, this needs to be a doubt. Yeah.

A

All needs to be the.

B

Self executed and it needs to have parameters which the project people need to make sure will comply in order to get the approval, to get reviewed, to be okay and then get the money you.

A

B

A

B

But he needs you.

A

C

A

Resolution, it's.

B

A probably different type of inputs coming from.

B

Okay: okay, that's like what constraints are on the overview of all like so, for example, a reviewer coming from the organization itself. There are no constraints in.

A

The end some projects are going to have very technical things. For instance, we have a project right now that is auditing our smart contract, okay, who is going to say whether done audit was done correctly. Your.

C

A

Contract well, George is the one getting to use the project.

A

He wants to jump in there. You know yeah exactly right. So.

A

But but the thing is who who in a reviewer pool, has the ability to do that very few people and what we're doing it for that, specifically, is we we stopped out somebody who could review this and there's a couple solidity dos in LA that are incentivized through internal incentives because they won. They want to use a wall to contract and they want to work with us right, so they are. Actually they want to make sure there are sentence, are aligned with the reviewer role, which is this. Smart contract needs to be audited correctly right.

A

So that's the biggest thing is that it doesn't matter how they're it's not so important how as much as it's aligned with the review roll right so I mean them incentives how? How is.

B

This gonna work, though, like how? How can we assert or make the claim of the reviewer knows that I do their role and and knows like what things they need to touch on / / charity like I, see it being like, like you know, like we need some sort of like market for a reviewer role itself and having that be like reputation based and.

A

B

Like again like, like you know, like so I, have these certain skills that would help me, like you know, make the claim that your project is all the milestones it needs to be and stuff like that. I mean.

A

This is the thing. This is why it's really like this project and their milestones, I would say milestones are like thirty percent of how important what a project needs to do and the reviewer is 70 percent right. The reviewer is like the mountain. The majority of white people should donate to this project. The reviewer has to be when we're saying hey. You should donate to this project because number one.

A

This is the reviewer number two, here's my milestones and I think that's a cultural choice right that we have to promote from the beginning that, because, in the end the there we are not as giveth, it's not our job to say whether or not a project is good or bad. Our job is to is definitely to filter projects as it is this actually making the world a better place. Okay, and is it? Is it following certain guidelines as a non violent, non aggressive? You know like actually something.

B

That's not going to get give.

A

Us shut down, you know, you know, these are important rules that we have to follow, but we act as kind of like curators for the doubt. In my opinion, yeah weird, we are identity Oracle's. We say that the renewer has to be this person and the you know the delegates are these people and we try to enforce that. We're not.

B

A

To say whether or not this reviewer is do it bad does not give us. That's that's the donors role can.

B

I ask a question: it's just because I would start marinating this whole discussion. But what why this Y is the reviewer there in the first place, instead of like the use of based system where, because they are the reviews of the reviewer, even if you put a review there, the users didn't donors will be the reviews of the review, because yeah yeah what they think matters in the end because, like I, did not like how Greenpeace spent my money so I quit my donation and then I want to get funding so yeah I.

A

Mean that's bad to me. The ideal reviewer is all the donors right.

A

Diverse donor group there's.

B

Two problems with that number one: if we.

B

A

Course, generally for reviewers, there is at least what we have right now is we have passive acceptance again, you don't like them. I do a conversation about that yeah, especially with you, yeah yeah,.

B

But I will get have been default to yes as long as there's a conference which they can go. You.

A

Know then, there's like all situations and and also let's say that you know if it looks like a diverse group of donors right, but it's really just one guy who say 80% of money here and then a bunch of atoms. You know maybe two atoms, that's some of the other 20% and it looks like Oh 80% voted yes and only 20% didn't vote like this won't work just, but it's working well, yeah.

B

Because he, his foster ain't, allowed to share these.

A

Wise people who now they just stole Adams money and they didn't actually do anything all they did- was put a fake website and they started doing stuff right now. But this is the thing- and this is a major. This is one of their gonna, be the major part of scope. Okay, I'm, okay, with I mean I'm, not okay, with a little fraud.

A

I, don't want to say that okay, but unfortunately I just we are taking this step in the right direction and allowing for the free market to interfere here right, I'm gonna go into what a doubt for reviewers could look like it will build that together. But honestly, if we start from here with this completely transparent system and build up, there's gonna be a lot less from than there is currently in the system. Today, we can't expect to right that cannot be in our sphere. It's yeah! We will never put anything out there.

B

A

B

Make it a music getting it.

B

A

The culture, the culture yes wide channels, yeah lots of people have and even then it's like. Oh you could do this. That's a lot of work. You know it's a lot of work to front a community, but let's talk about really quick. This doubt for reviewers concept,.

A

Okay, so I doubt for reviewers I, really like this concept right. Maybe we have like trusted reviewers.

B

A

In and they are actually the ones who pay Ramirez crucial right, so the money does not come from the system at all, it's kind of allocated, almost randomly or or like you know, randomly question. You know, I mean we're. Gonna have we're. Gonna have actually I. Don't want to talk about this. This is definitely not in our scope for the next flake forever and we could build off this. Maybe let's do like the minute to five minutes. What you guys want to see in a doubt, Jory I.

C

Probable one way it's not Honeywell now but having like many doubts or I, didn't lose know if those always the right war, maybe it's maybe later, but have these truths to the reverse. There are satellites by himself. They choose a real word: okay and they are quite different companies, yeah and then recently company, a competition reputation, so project manager, project, creator, pressure, corner.

B

And choose the Derby or for.

C

Any of these companies- okay, they can know it's like a free market and they can choose and then, of course, the first it's going to be good or bad. They belong to this company or company because they have like a tradition. So if the reviewer doesn't, if they're justify this company doesn't like good, it will affect the reputation of this company is probably the future.

A

A

Instead of having a monopoly on justice, like you know, loss system with laws that we have and having a distributed justice system- and you have different companies that compete in a free market for whether this review- it's good for that right and they can, they may be reviewers have deposits. Then they place the posit to this, and it's kind of like a third party certification. So.

C

You go with it. You can do interesting things, participation. If you have for four companies. Okay ways, maybe you can create, like a multi sake of for reviewers one, each company- oh yeah, things like that. So it's interesting to have this pool of companies of the set of companies. I would say three four or five different companies that can provide a reviewers and proposal reviewer for the projects or providers we were, and, of course they are paying. You know these reviewers. Should you pay this kind of fee?

C

Probably I will not say one percent I think it depends very much in the kind of brush to our viewing and all that stuff, and it could be what's here after Marcus tears, right yeah, you can do little things like things like that they should be independent, should should complete in some in some way kill that the Badger obviously know this company sites are like they are free.

C

They would that reputation will go down, maybe will appear another.

C

A

Agency on that, because to me this is their price certification right. This is slavery, trade, but it's just a different.

A

C

Should be built on you know, the thing of that is that this is not unknown for profit organization is not for profitability.

B

A

C

B

Yeah, you choose winners.

B

A

B

A

Maybe you have a multi thing with a review from one of these agencies and this other guy right and it takes two to authorities, but the big thing that I don't understand is: where does this agency get their money? Because, okay, so now we just basically bureaucracies this exact same issue. If they're getting money or lots, we just threw a bunch of bureaucracy like the same incentive.

B

Yeah yeah, it's very different to be paid or to be specifically paid for checking or unchecking or being there, and they give you just like a great propose, a job. A job is a salary, and you get this amount for being part of it. I just have.

A

To call that, because to me this is just adding more bureaucracy and that's kind of like against, but.

C

You this is an option. This is this should be an option of the project. Creator. Of course, pressure greater can choose one one reviewer of this companies, or maybe he kills just be back okay be coming. This is the address on the bitumen Derek. Here is the picture of Metallica is danica.

A

C

A

Wear our which are actually do something. Every week we were of the company one of the ones that just goes to seven days and I was purchasing. You.

C

Know you know, that's it we choose for me, it's that better, but you know the.

A

Question is who pays and I don't like it? I, don't like it.

C

Would be else would choose it? Would you please.

A

Wait, you know I, don't want to yeah. No, absolutely everyone will choose the best way and personally, I think that this should be its own campaign right. This is something.

A

A

This is more like this I'm, not a big fan of this.

B

B

We are has to be yes, but.

B

You see what I mean it's a little.

C

Yeah, but what's nice of here of this system is that you know that the project can choose that, and maybe he choose a charity over. We of reverse maybe choose a company.

B

Of reviewers, maybe.

C

Choose a specific person and the unknown person that act like I really work. For example, it's very practical than we was a pretty open. Rich people can be a real. Why I'm here? We because he's he's a quiet, because she, because she she she comes to me yeah. She got some big reputation. So if she said we were of a small project he's, you know she got me a birthday, you know, but she of course, she's not gonna, be the real problem, she's going to choose another movie or whatever that job.

C

But if she puts his name campaign she has a lot too much to lose that. So maybe it's good to be one. So it's option for the project.

A

B

Have this brother- and you have this great reputation given because you're the best reviewer ever and I, have a project I would love for you to be my.

C

B

Because that will say that my project is struck word yeah.

A

So, except for I mean when I'm, like okay Brian you're, taking up a lot of my time right and then thinking it. Probably so, there's never there's never going to be, and this is what I came to in London. I was just crying all right. Spiteful, never find a good solution for reviewers. There isn't.

C

One less thing: okay: we can't quit besides popular organizations right now, okay I, throw this a lot of food. Okay, that a lot of things, at least we fix it for sure yeah.

B

C

They are adding the value okay. Can we know that we cannot forget that they are adding under? We are value and the real value of the darling is these revealing.

A

C

A

C

A

The lack of transparency for.

C

Sure but yeah, yes and, of course, probe to give this value. They take a lot of value. They are running back so and that's one thing.

B

For the next year, yeah well and then you know because I'm sure that the landscape will change in a year. From now.

C

Projects we choose without the right one.

A

What's really nice is when Joey told me about one of multi, one of X multi SIG's, it's like I could be like seven FS on a multi-city, and any one of us can actually reject it, because the way this is built, the way the system is built today, is that none of us do anything in seven days. It's just accepted, but if we have a 107 multi-sig and any one of us could pull out the red card and I get out of here cancelled I, then they've done like it.

B

Makes things a lot easier, I think we should go that way now and then see what happens.

C

Have you removed yeah we that right? No, we have a problem: yeah, okay, so one last.

A

Thing on you do I'm user stories that I want to talk about really briefly, these arbitrators, which is also kind of they give a small teasing. So what this multi-sig is actually right, now, I think it's a three of seven and I expect that to get larger of these, his number and I like.

A

There's a race condition: let's.

B

Say that we have seven people in the group and we do most wanted one thing we don't want to do another thing that means that whoever's quickest makes it happen so so in that is what you want to do. Is you want to have four of seven, which means that the majority have to.

A

Say well what happens when people lose keys or balloons that people aren't active people, don't know how to actually get to their wallet.

B

Alternative to the majority thing to a stationary.

B

B

A

That's important right like whether I should be 307 or whatever totally accepted.

A

That when we get full on when we actually get full on, maybe people know how to use wallets. Okay moves is a four-set. Do you have but they're there, this multi-sig that we have right now. Maybe we make it different.

B

A

There's a scam: okay: what power did they have the power to cancel a containing a project, a delegate? They have the ability to erase people from the system. What can they take? One thing they can they can? They can stop permissions.

B

They can, they can grant permission so if they can ground.

B

Yeah all right whatever say so, then maybe we need to.

A

Separate those because I honestly really think it's important to have a very easy way for someone to step in and say stop what I'm gonna do is have a delete and say that's what we have well okay. So this is. This is the thing so we have currently intercept and the other trainer is just the owner of the vault and there's two day delay before Pilar's can come out and they can cancel him yeah. I'm. Sorry, sorry, for me, right now is the day of the fight in the near folder.

C

So what this goes for for running, maybe should be four out of seven okay, and in the long run it should be zero to zero. So we should know that. Yes, of course, so that's when we have that the steps okay, well, we are in recess. Three of the five Utley is more than enough when we, when here it starts being a lot of millions dollars running in the system.

C

It should be four out of seven or five half dollar name, and we need to think that at some point we should be zero to zero, so I mean it's.

A

Just really hard for me, because in practice all these things are impossible practice. Multi six are yeah.

C

But that's why? But that's important, because this will be greater. We should not. We should not use it. Never so.

A

I think that we need to be able to separate arbitration rules because there needs to be another person that can step in, like almost escape hatch color and be like whoa whoa, hey, hey as you're scamming, us man. This is gonna. Stop you got that's like the security guard.

B

The system, because it makes it well.

A

There's a rule we will obey fix, but also scared.

B

A

Are you saying that multisig.

B

Is difficult because.

A

B

Ui for the ballistic right now. Is it because.

A

It is in the system.

B

It's like a voting thing, except so maybe say. Yes, not. Everyone will write a check exactly.

C

What's a transaction that you are doing, if you want to do, if you want the run, will to see in the right way, but I never what they remember.

A

C

Anyone do okay,.

B

It's I agree: it's hard stuff, well, I, agree but like if you're, only using multi thing for something you can do in the system. You don't.

A

Need to verify.

B

Transactions well like like you, if you trust, because somebody.

A

B

It yeah so I always validate different action for sending.

C

Bari buddy just validates I used to buddy day you when you want that I'm sure happy buddy make that all the transactions and power no.

A

B

I, would they make sure one of us do what does the arbitrate to do in.

A

B

Cancels milestones.

A

Cancel our viewer. This is where this is where we get, where there's probably a need for it to be a four of seven. If a reviewer keeps from key rejecting a milestone that was actually completed, because let's say that Beck's broke up with OJ good friend and doesn't want to actually be you know for anything like it doesn't want us to get any money. Sorry so I! So then, if a reviewer is misbehaving, us should get the money, and so.

C

They can actually say.

B

Okay yeah, so we can.

A

Make this happen in.

B

Our case, what I think the owner should send the money back to the ball division, a the whole new bonuses. They should make a whole new campaign campaign dinner in my controller yeah I think YouTube defaults to going back.

A

Yeah I agree: I, don't want people making sending money places, that's just not acceptable on the.

B

A

A

Okay, so then we could have so the reasons are the four of seven multi six years. The hell outta me is because of the down home. Sorry, whoever you are you you should you know just as well as I. Do that really like eight out of eleven people is suicide? Yeah, it's like halo! We please I, prefer.

C

A

If they are in the condition yeah, if definite foundation, they have other jobs. Hey is one thing and then there's no yeah they're not even paid there's only a risk for them to do something wrong. There's no benefit of them doing something right and then we have an exact same scenarios right yeah, but it's mitigated a lot. If we're only slowing people down the steps feeding, people yeah.

B

Just some way to change the main controller I'm like okay I, like that there's a clock: I, don't.

A

Understand so it's design in your position, your.

B

Position as as graters yeah yeah, it's okay, you know how to control of.

A

Your other stuff, so, okay! Well, it's you never like what happened to much port right, so much will have their CTO guy. That's just like whoa I, don't like what's happening here, I'm, just throwing out the red flag, I'm out of here, I'm resigning, my position and he didn't actually have to remove himself with voltic, safe he's, probably still on the multi. Soon I, don't know right because they probably weren't going to.

A

They are probably dealing with other stuff, but culturally and politically he resigned, and he made sure that whatever happened with the funds for Nashville was, he was not responsible for now. It turns out I mean it's debatable, but sure sound seems like that. Guy was actually wrong and the rest of the natural gas are doing right but yeah, but who else right either way through this is uh this? Is a lot of this stuff happens off chain?

A

Okay, I want to move on.