►
From YouTube: City of Groton Committee of the Whole 7/6/21
Description
City of Groton, Connecticut municipal meeting: Committee of the Whole July 6, 2021. Click on the link below to view the agenda.
https://cityofgroton.com/download/Unpublished/Agendas/Committee%20of%20the%20Whole/2021/Committee-of-the-Whole-07-06-21-Special-Agenda.pdf
B
Okay,
this
is
the
referral
freedom
of
information
act
training.
So
one
of
the
things
I
like
to
do
early
in
the
new
term
is
to
bring
tom
hennigan
from
the
freedom
of
information
office.
He
is
the
educational
officer,
and
so
I
like
to
bring
him
in
to
go
over
the
freedom
of
information
act
and
what
keeps
us
out
of
trouble
and
and
what
we
might
accidentally
do.
That
gets
us
in
trouble.
So
with
that
time,
I'll
turn
it
over
to
you.
C
Mayor,
thank
you.
Thanks
for
the
invitation,
hello,
everybody
pardon
my
back.
If,
but
we
we
love
doing
these
sessions,
especially
when
you're
eager
to
have
them.
You
know,
sometimes
the
our
commission
will
order
them,
because
towns
or
cities
are
just
rolling
in
the
wrong
direction.
So
this
is
always
fun.
We
don't
do
them
to
to
beat
you
up
to
make
you
miserable.
C
I
always
preface
the
the
conversations
by
telling
everybody
that
I'm
not
an
attorney,
so
these
are
not
orders.
These
are
not
commands.
This
is
not
a
legal
opinion
from
our
commission.
I've
been
doing
this
for
gulp
20
years
now,
and
I
offer
advice
based
on
what
I've
seen
what
I've
heard.
Our
commission
do.
What
I've
observed
over
time
and
again
it's
it's
advice
and
it's
meant
to
meant
to
help
you
along
the
freedom
of
information
act.
C
C
C
Well,
she
guaranteed
it,
and-
and
I
I
here
to
tell
you
that
she
got
it-
I've
seen
the
video
I've
actually
seen
a
video.
There
wasn't
a
single,
no
vote
in
the
house,
not
a
single,
no
vote
in
the
senate.
This
law
passed
unanimously
in
our
legislature
now
other
than
being
interesting
and
showing
you
why
it's
important.
C
It
also
gives
you
a
little
insight
back
to
why
we're
here
tonight,
because
to
get
to
the
point
where
everybody
voted.
Yes,
everybody
voted.
Yes,
can
you
imagine
the
negotiations?
Can
you
imagine
the
arm
twisting?
Can
you
imagine
the
back
and
forth
and
so
you've
got
a
law,
that's
based
on
a
really
basic,
simple
concept:
open
government,
transparent
public
agencies,
but
when
you
read
it
I
know
the
mayor's
right
has
any
any
of
you
tried
to
read
it.
Try
to
look
at
it
your
eyes,
I
guarantee
you
will
roll
to
the
back
of
your
head.
C
I
see
jill
nodding
her
head
back
there
too.
You
know
it's
like
what
the
wherefore
is
and
the,
whereas
isn't
the.
What
are
we
supposed
to
do
there
wait
a
minute.
I
thought
this
was
about
something.
Well
they
to
get
to
the
point
where
everybody
voted.
Yes,
you,
you
said:
well,
okay,
we're
we
got
a
principal
we're
with,
but
there
had
to
be
a
lot
of
compromise
and
a
lot
of
back
and
forth.
So
you've
got
language.
That
leaves
a
lot
open
to
interpretation
back
to
us.
Those
of
us
who
are
on
the
front
line.
C
C
Absolutely
certain
you've
done
the
right
thing
and
there'll
be
somebody
on
the
other
side
of
the
issue,
who's
going
to
say,
nope,
I
disagree
and
another
thing
this
law
did
was
create
the
foi
commission,
which
is
where
I
work,
and
I,
when
you
someone
disagrees
with
the
decision
that
you
have
made
based
on
freedom
of
information,
they
can
file
a
complaint
with
the
freedom
of
information.
Commission.
The
commission
can
say
you
know
groton
city,
I'm
sorry.
You
were
wrong
on
that.
C
One
you've
got
to
release
the
record
or
they
can
say
you
were
right
one
little
piece
on
the
side.
There
is
that,
if
you
have
a
complaint,
that's
filed
against
you,
someone
says
you've
done
something
wrong:
don't
automatically
assume
that
you're
wrong,
because
this
law
is
subject
to
interpretation
because
there
are
gray
areas
in
it.
You
make
a
call
based
on
the
best
information,
the
best
tool,
the
the
strongest.
You
know
feelings
that
you
have.
C
They
just
disagree,
but
I
argue
that
if
you
made
it
in
a
rational
way,
it
goes
to
the
foi
commission.
The
commission
makes
a
ruling
you're
going
to
be
upheld
that
your
decisions
will
be
held,
but
that's
that's
why
it's
important
to
have
some
of
the
basics
in
your
hand,
to
know
what
you're
supposed
to
do.
The
law
is
about
two
basic
things:
it's
about
access
to
public
meetings,
access
to
public
records,
we'll
talk
about
both
of
them,
but
we'll
most
of
your
board
and
commission
members
right.
We'll
talk
mostly
about
the
the
meetings
provisions.
C
We'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
records,
but
one
of
the
things
that
it's
not
it
probably
should
have
been
called
freedom
of
access
is
what
it
really
because
it's
about
those
those
are
the
two.
You
know
underpinnings
of
the
law
access
to
meetings
access
to
records,
but
it's
called
freedom
of
information,
maybe
because
it
sounds
better,
I
don't
know,
but
a
lot
of
people
think
it's
about
free
information,
they'll
march
into
the
mayor's
office,
or
the
police
station
and
they'll,
or
maybe
to
one
of
your
meetings.
They'll
say
you
know
under
freedom
of
information.
C
I
have
a
right
to
know.
Tell
me:
why
did
you
do
this?
How
did
you
come
up
with
this
budget
number?
Why
you
know
why
was
there
a
police
cruiser
in
my
neighborhood
last
night?
Well,
that
may
be
something
that
the
individual
has
a
right
to
know,
but
they've
got
to
do
a
little
bit
of
the
work
you
know
you're.
We
are
not
the
the
answer.
People
a
lot
of
people
think
that
they
march
into
a
meeting
like
this,
and
they
start
asking
questions
because
of
freedom
of
information,
and
it's
not
about
answering
questions.
C
One
of
the
first
fundamentals
is
that
this
law
doesn't
actually
require
a
public
agency
to
answer
questions.
Now
we
do
we're
public
servants
right
we're
going
to
answer
questions
when
people
come
and
ask
us,
but
at
some
point
you
may
not
be
comfortable
answering
that
question
you
may
think
you
know
I'm
not
100
sure
of
the
answer,
or
you
know
we
maybe
need
legal
help
on
that
one
and
you're
you're
not
violating
anything
in
our
law.
C
If
you
say
I'm
sorry,
I'm
not
going
to
answer
that
or
I
can't
answer
that
and
and
that's
a
hurdle
that
that
some
folks
can't
get
over.
They
think
that
all
they
have
to
do
is
say.
Freedom
of
information
and
presto
chango
up
comes
the
information
it's
harder
than
that.
They've
got
to
come
to
a
meeting
and
maybe
listen
to
boards.
C
You
know
talk
about
an
issue
or
get
the
records
where
the
information
is
contained,
but
it's
not
unto
us
and
if
you've
ever
had
that
happen,
I
know
I
suspect
you
have
and
jill
think
for
a
minute
about
working
at
the
freedom
of
information.
Commission
people
think
that
we
are
the
information
center
for
the
entire
state
of
connecticut.
C
I
routinely
almost
daily
get
requests
from
people
for
records.
I
got
one
today,
someone
was
looking
for
a
bid
package
from
dep
or
d-e-e-p,
and
I
have
to
politely
explain.
You
know
we're
not
a
repository
for
records,
we
don't
have
him
and
so
a
lot
of
times.
People
don't
get
it.
You
know
they.
They
think
they
think
that
we
sit
in
this
giant
vault
containing
every
record
held
by
every
agency
in
the
state
of
connecticut,
and
they
call
us
up
and
push
a
button
and
out
it
comes
so
a
lot
of
times.
C
People
say
tom,
you
ought
to
think
about,
maybe
not
doing
the
foi
sessions,
and
maybe
just
you
know
telling
stories
because
some
of
them
you
know
so
I
won't.
I
won't
give
you
too
many,
but
let
me
just
give
you
a
couple
just
to
show
you
just
to
show
you
what
people
think
we
are
and
to
show
you
what
what
we're?
Not
so,
this
this
tale.
Unwound
almost
four
years
ago,
it's
an
it's
an
email
and
again
I
get
these
every
day.
C
I
one
of
my
functions
at
the
at
the
commission
is
to
go
through
the
emails
that
we
receive
every
day.
I
go
through
them
all.
Sort
them
out
send
them
to
the
to
the
right
people
process
the
complaints,
so
this
guy
writes
in-
and
he
says
dear
sir,
please
provide
an
electronic
copy
via
email,
preferably
a
spreadsheet,
showing
all
the
medicaid
paid.
Electroconvulsive
treatments,
aka,
ect
aka
shock
treatment.
C
My
request
includes
every
field
you
have
available,
but
certainly
not
patient
identifiers.
The
request
includes,
but
is
not
limited
to
the
name
of
the
psychiatrist,
license
number
date
of
treatment,
age
of
patient
city,
county
name
of
treatment,
facility
address
the
facility,
cost
of
treatment,
etc.
C
You'll,
like
this
one
time
frame
as
far
back
as
your
computer
records,
exist
best
regards
ken
kramer
psycsearch.net.
Does
anybody
know
what
that
is
psycsearch.net?
I
don't
know
what
that
is.
So
I
have
sort
of
a
standard
thing
that
I
try
to
write
to
people
we're
not
a
repository
for
records.
You
got
to
go
to
the
agency.
That
has
them
don't
look
at
me.
I
have
no
idea
who
might
have
those
records.
Most
people
are
appreciative.
They
don't
quite
understand
the
system,
they
say.
Thank
you
very
much,
not
this
guy.
C
His
response
is
well,
then,
be
a
good
public
servant.
Get
it
into
the
correct
hands
instead
of
just
blowing
it
off
best
regards
ken
kramer
psycsearch.net.
So
I'm
thinking
well,
that's
a
another
christmas
card.
I'm
not
going
to
be
getting
this
year
right
so
fast
forward
to
to
about
six
months
ago,
and
I'm
going
through
the
emails,
and,
oh
my
god
he's
here
again.
C
C
C
D
C
C
C
C
C
It
would
make
sense,
but
you
can't
do
it.
The
law
says
no.
The
law
says
you
do
your
work
in
public,
we're
going
to
form
a
little
subcommittee,
it's
not
the
full
board,
it's
not
a
quorum!
Therefore,
we
don't
need
to
worry
about
and
when
I
hear
that
I
always
get
nervous,
don't
need
to
worry
about.
We
don't
need
to
worry
about
freedom
of
information.
C
Well,
yeah!
You
do
when
you
look
at
the
definition
of
a
public
agency,
there's
a
phrase
in
there
that
says,
including
any
committee
of
or
created
by.
So
even
if
you
create
a
two-person
subcommittee,
if
it's
an
official
subcommittee,
it
needs
to
follow
the
same
rules.
Make
sure
your
meeting
is
noticed,
make
sure
it's
open
to
the
public,
make
sure
they're
minutes
when
the
meeting
is
done.
C
C
C
You're?
Okay,
when
you
prepare
an
agenda,
you
want
to
make
sure
that
it
is
specific
as
possible.
The
courts
have
been
really
strong
on
that
agenda
specificity.
The
agenda
needs
to
be
available
at
least
24
hours
in
advance.
It
needs
to
be
available
in
your
office
if
your,
if
your
board
has
one
and
then
also
sent
to
the
town,
clerk
and
posted,
you
know
and
available.
C
C
The
difference
between
the
regular
and
the
special
meeting
is
that
at
a
regular
meeting
you
can
add
things
at
a
special
meeting.
You
cannot
so
when
you're
preparing
your
agendas,
which
is
why
I
brought
up
the
point.
We
all
cut
and
paste
items
like
old
business,
new
business,
other
business
they're,
not
great
items
but
at
least
at
a
regular
meeting.
The
chairman
can
say:
is
there
any
other
business?
C
And
someone
could
say
yes
I'd
like
to
add
this,
but
at
a
special
meeting,
if
it
says
other
business
with
nothing
underneath
it,
you
might
as
well
take
the
item
off
because
you
can't
add
anything
to
the
agenda
and
that's
the
fundamental
difference
between
the
two.
Otherwise
they're.
Virtually
the
same.
C
You
know
you
don't
have
a
quorum,
you
can't
meet
whatever.
That
is,
that's
that's.
What
the
difference
between
the
regular
and
the
special
meeting,
the
third
kind
of
meeting
that
we
talk
about
the
emergency
meeting
is
a
meeting
really
folks
that
I
discourage
you
from
using
emergency
meeting
is
an
unnoticed
meaning,
and
the
problem
is
that
what
constitutes
an
emergency
in
the
eyes
of
the
law
sets
the
bar
really
high,
probably
higher
than
all
of
us
in
this
room?
C
A
C
C
C
C
We
screwed
up
on
the
agenda,
but
the
reality
is
that's
not
strong
enough
and
people
say
well,
you
know,
what's
the
big
deal,
what
what
could
happen-
and
you
know
I'll
shorten
the
the
version
of
the
story,
but
you've
got
a
situation.
The
town
over
on
the
other
side
of
the
state,
where
the
board
of
selectmen
held
an
emergency
meeting
and
at
that
emergency
meeting
they
terminated
somebody.
C
There
was
somebody
who
was,
you
know,
giving
them
trouble
when
they
terminate
them,
so
they
meet
in
an
emergency
fashion
without
notice,
and
they
they
terminate
the
guy,
and
he
says
well
well,
wait
a
minute:
what
was
the
emergency?
You
know
what
why
couldn't
you
notice
the
meeting
at
least?
Do
it
24
hours
in
advance
and
he
filed
a
complaint.
Remember
I
mentioned
the
complaint.
He
filed
a
complaint
with
the
fmi
commission
and
it
turned
out
that
they
really
didn't
have
an
emergency.
C
They
claimed
that
the
guy
was
threatening
the
first
selectmen
that
he
was
a
danger
to
the
first
selectmen
and
and
that's
why
they
called
it
an
emergency.
So
they
they
filed
a
complaint.
It
goes
to
the
foi
commission,
the
commission
rules
in
favor
of
the
guy
and
declares
null
and
void
everything
that
happened
at
that
meeting.
C
God,
god
is
speaking
to
us
right,
yep,
the!
I
guess
they
said
this
was
going
to
happen,
yeah
right
well
at
least
we're
inside.
So
where
was
they
so
they?
The
the
commission,
said
we
declare
null
and
void.
They
don't
do
that
very
often,
but
that
is
one
of
the
commission's
strongest
powers.
So,
basically
now
the
guy
was
fired
at
a
meeting
that
didn't
happen
because
the
commission
wiped
it
out.
C
I
told
you
that
there's
you
know,
law
open
is
open
to
interpretation.
The
the
mayor,
the
I
mean
the
first
selectmen
didn't
like
the
interpretation
that
the
first
com,
the
freedom
of
information
commission
made
and
he
appealed
it.
You
can
appeal
an
foi
commission
decision
all
the
way
to
the
supreme
court,
so
he
appeals
it
all
the
way
to
the
state
supreme
court
and
the
this
instance,
which
doesn't
always
happen.
C
The
supreme
court
agreed
with
the
foi
commission
and
said
we
too
declare
null
and
void
would
happen
at
that
meeting
now,
if
you're
at
all,
familiar
with
the
process,
taking
something
the
supreme
court
isn't
like
a
two-week
process,
it's
three
or
four
year
process.
So
I
want
you
to
think
about
that
from
it
all.
You
hr
people,
the
person
was
off
the
payroll
for
three
or
four
years
and
then
the
at
a
meeting
that
didn't
happen.
C
C
That
the
one
time
that
you
don't
do
it
properly
is
the
one
time
that
somebody
files
a
complaint.
You
find
yourself
with
a
situation
like
this.
That's
difficult
to
get
out
of
people
always
ask
well
what
what
constitutes
an
emergency,
and
there
is
no
real
strong
definition,
but
I
I
I
hearken
back
to
a
case
not
a
case
but
actually
a
situation.
I
was
doing
one
of
these
workshops
in
stonington
a
couple
years
ago
and
they
had
a
situation.
You
guys
maybe
even
know
what
it
was.
C
There
was
a
there
was
an
old
factory
building
that
had
been
hit
by
lightning
or
they
were
starting
to
crumble
near
near
a
body
of
water,
and
they
looked
at
it
on
a
morning
and
they
said
you
know
what
we
can't
wait:
24
hours
to
get
take
action
here.
They
brought
everybody
together,
they
had
to
deploy
police
to
you,
know,
block
off
roads
and
and
bring
in
the
hazmat
crews
and
all
that
stuff.
So
the
people
didn't
get
hurt.
C
Keeping
people
see
safe
and
out
of
harm's
way
is,
is
kind
of
where
I
put
the
bar
for
an
emergency.
If
you
ever
have
a
situation
like
that,
I
hope
you
never
do
you
meet
and
within
72
hours
create
minutes
that
reflect
what
the
emergency
was.
Who
was
there
and
what
you
did
about
it
and
that
you
know
that's
a
different
set
of
rules
that
you
have
for
the
regular
special
meeting.
But
that's
that's
what
that?
C
A
C
So
if
somebody
comes
and
they're
being
rude-
or
I
know
that
wouldn't
happen
here
right-
you
never
have
problems
like
that.
We
all
I,
by
the
way
I
should
have
mentioned,
I
served
on
a
board
of
education
for
10
years.
I
was
a
chairman
for
the
last
five.
I
was
on
our
board
of
selectmen.
I
get
it,
I
get
it.
I
mean
sometimes
there's
a
clash,
but
you
have
a
right
to
control.
C
So,
let's
suppose
it's
a
hot
item,
let's
suppose
it's
budget
time,
and
you
want
to
limit
people
to
two
minutes
or
three
minutes
or
somebody's,
bringing
up
a
topic
that
you've
beaten
to
death
over
the
last.
You
know
five
meetings,
we're
not
going
to
talk
about
that
tonight.
Those
are
things
that
you
have
a
right
to
do.
The
the
board
has
control
over
public
speaking
and
who
speaks
how
long
they
speak
when
they
speak
is
entirely
up
to
the
board.
C
At
this
point,
let
me
just
deviate
from
you
know
what
I've
been
telling
people
for
a
long
time.
The
legislature
in
the
budget
implementer
bill
just
passed
added
some
provisions
that
included
some
of
the
components.
I
guess
would
be
the
best
word
of
the
governor's
executive
orders
that
we
were
all
under
during
the
pandemic,
now
we're
meeting
in
person
tonight
by
the
way.
Thank
god
thank
you
for
letting
me
out
of
the
house.
You
know
I
mean
really.
C
I
am
so
tired
of
looking
at
a
screen
and
doing
these
things,
but
the
legislature
felt
that,
and
with
with
you
know,
some
justification
that
allowing
virtual
meetings
brought
more
people
in.
I
don't
do.
That
was
that
the
experience
here
did
more
people
tune
in
when
you
were
meeting
via
zoom
or
via
that's
what
they
felt.
C
I
need
to
stress
that
it's
not
required
at
one
point
the
language,
what
had
it
all
required,
but
it
made
it
it
made
it
so
that
it's
not
it
made
it
so
that
it's
something
you
have
a
right
to
do.
You
know
some
of
the
highlights
are,
I
guess,
if
you're
going
to
meet
electronically
in
any
way,
they
want
notice
to
go
out
to
all
board
members
and
the
community
48
hours
beforehand.
C
C
C
I
don't
want
to
disparage
the
legislature
too
much,
but
we
started
talking
to
them
in
january
of
this
year,
because
it
was
obvious
that
they
were
moving
in
this
direction,
offering
them
suggestions
and
stuff,
and
I
mean
up
to
the
very
last
minute
they
were
tossing
ideas
around
and
back
and
forth
and
back
everybody
thought
it
was
a
great
idea,
but
nobody
knew
how
to
implement
it.
I
brought
we
put
some
our
interpretation
of
it
on
our
website
and
I
printed
out
a
couple
of
copies.
You
can
take
them
share
them
again.
C
D
C
Okay,
the
law
always
allowed
mem
board
members
to
participate
electronically,
which
is
you
know,
you
may
think.
Oh
wait
a
minute,
but
the
law
clearly
said
that
a
member
could
participate
via
phone.
We
never
we
didn't
see
it
before
covid.
We
didn't
see
it
much
beyond
the
phone,
but
in
theory
we
all
could
have
been
board.
Members
as
well
could
have
been
unzoomed,
but
they
needed
they're
still
needed,
so
the
audience
would
have
been
here
and
everybody
else
would
have
been
on
a
tv
screen
in
theory.
C
So
so
that's
different
board
members
participating
that
way.
The
hybrid
zoom
part
webex
part
would
be
if
the
public
was
brought
in
that
way
as
well,
yep
and-
and
I
suspect
that
that
there'll
be
there'll-
be
more
questions.
There's
a
there's,
a
piece
in
here
that
says
if,
if
you're
having
part
of
the
meeting
electronically
and
it
cuts
out-
oh
well,
it's
tough
and
we
thought
that
was
kind
of
weird.
You
know.
E
C
Would
you
why
would
you
do
that?
You
know
you're
pushing
to
have
people
participate
that
way
anyway,
if
you're
interested
take
take
a
copy
of
this
or
look
on
our
website,
we
did
the
best
we
could
to
try
to
to
try
to
make
sure
did
one
of
the
you
know,
one
of
the
components
that
we
wanted
them
to
put
in
there
is.
Did
you
have
any
trouble
when
you
were
going
electronically
with
like
zoom
bombing
or
anything
like
that?
C
Did
you
have
that
happen
when,
when
they
first
went
to
this
this
high
this
electronic
meetings,
have
you
heard
you
know
what
the
term
is?
Have
you
heard
that
term
people
you
know,
put
the
link
out
there
now,
let's
remember
back
to
you
know:
a
year
ago
march,
we
were
all
locked
in
we
weren't
going
anywhere,
so
people
were
looking
for
amusement,
so
they
were
clicking
onto
these
meetings
and
some
of
them
were
funny
some
of
them.
C
Some
of
them
were
dangerous,
calling
people
names
and
they
were
usually
typically
people
who
were
not
part
of
the
community
that
someone
from
oklahoma
would
call
in
and
zoom
bomb
a
meeting
and,
and
so
the
boards
and
commissions
were
calling
up
and
saying.
What
are
we
supposed
to
do?
There's
a
provision
in
the
fy
act
that
says
you
can't
ask
anybody
who
they
are
to
come
to
one
of
your
meetings.
It's
an
open
meeting.
C
In
but
the
security
steps,
the
extra
layer
that
they
wanted
to
step
to
take
were
to
you
know
have
somebody
sign
in
you
know:
send
us
an
email
and
we'll
send
you
the
link
so
that
at
least
we
know
who
we're
talking
to
and
they
asked
us
what
to
do.
We
said,
oh
there's,
clearly
a
conflict
there,
because
the
law
wants
you
to
be
able
to
carry
on
a
meeting.
C
So
that
was
a
situation
where
we
made
a
call,
we
said:
look.
We
don't
think
that
that's
going
to
be
a
problem,
even
though
clearly
the
law
says
you
can't
make
anybody
sign
in
to
enter
a
meeting.
We
think
in
this
case.
Under
these
circumstances,
it's
the
best.
It's
the
best
way
to
go
forward
so
that
the
business
can
get
conducted.
I
got
zoom
bombed
once
if
you'll
allow
me
to
digress
for
a
second,
I
was
doing
a
workshop
like
this.
You
know
on
the
screen
in
my
house
for
a
bunch
of
citizens.
C
They
weren't,
where
they
weren't
officials,
like
you
guys
and
very
nice
people,
and
I'm
talking
you
know,
blah
blah,
I'm
talking
away
and
all
of
a
sudden.
The
screen
goes
black
and
I
hear
this
loud
sort
of
dance,
music
and
and
I'm
looking
around
and
my
my
daughter
and
and
wife
are
downstairs,
my
daughter
who
was
teaching
her
first
graders
from
our
dining
room.
C
Oh
my
goodness,
gracious
said
I
said,
and
let
me
tell
you
they
didn't
leave
much
the
imagination.
Let
me
tell
you
and-
and
I
can
see
the
the
people
who
are
running
the
thing
trying
to
turn
it
off
and
everything
like
so
anyway.
That
was
a
humorous
zoom
bomb,
but
you
can
imagine
if
someone
was
trying
to
create
trouble
so
and
then
at
that
point
I
realized
you
know
g,
maybe
we
better!
We
wanted
to
get
them
to
put
something
in
there.
That
said
that
the
boards
and
commissions
are
allowed
to
take.
C
C
C
The
law
gives
boards
and
commissions
two
different
avenues
that
they
can
take
to
operate
without
the
public
in
the
in
the
room.
One
is
called
executive
session.
Have
you
all
heard
that
term?
You
know
what
I'm
talking
about.
Remember
that
an
executive
session
is
a
portion
of
a
publicly
noticed,
open
meeting.
C
C
The
board
needs
to
make
a
motion
to
go
into
that
executive
session,
and
then
it
needs
to
vote
to
go
into
executive
session
by
a
two-thirds
vote
of
those
board.
Members
who
are
present,
you
vote
you
go
in,
you
have
your
discussion
and
then
you
come
out
to
take
any
action
you're
going
to
take.
If
you,
if
you
carry
something
with
you
tonight,
never
ever
ever
vote
behind
closed
doors.
C
You
wouldn't
have
to
conduct
those
negotiations
behind
yeah
in
public.
You
could
do
them
behind
closed
doors,
because
talking
about
them
in
public
might
negatively
impact
your
position.
The
town
is
trying
to
lease
a
town-owned
building
and
they're
negotiating
yes,
oh
gee,
the
town's
here.
If
we
go
here,
we
can
you
know
that
sort
of
thing
you
would
you
could
do
that
behind
closed
doors
to
protect
the
town's
position.
C
C
They
all
come
in
with
with
their
bids,
and
you
want
to
look
at
them
well,
because
those
bids
are
exempt
because
you're
allowed
to
withhold
them
from
the
public.
You
could
go
into
executive
session.
Have
the
conversation
about
the
content
of
the
bids?
Well,
we
like
this
price
for
gas,
but
this
price,
for
you
know,
transportation
out
of
town.
That's
have
those
conversations
and
then
come
out
and
vote,
and
you
can
do
that
because
the
documents
themselves
are
exempt
from
disclosure.
C
So
you
you,
you
ask
your
attorney
for
a
written
legal
opinion.
You
are
the
client,
so
you
ask
the
attorney
for
the
written
legal
opinion.
It
comes
to
you
it's
now
covered
by
the
attorney-client
privilege,
because
you
don't
have
to
share
that
with
anybody.
That's
a
that's
the
opinion
that
you've
sought
from
from
your
lawyer,
so
you
could
go
into
executive
session
to
discuss
the
advice
that
your
attorney
has.
Given
you
just
a
couple
of
examples:
the
executive
session
for
personnel
first
of
all
agenda,
preparers!
C
Don't
ever
let
an
agenda
go
out
that
says:
executive
session
personnel.
The
courts
have
come
down
really
hard
on
that
too
executive
session
personnel,
discussion
of
the
performance
of
a
public
works,
employee
discussion,
the
performance
of
a
police
officer
of
a
teacher.
You
don't
necessarily
have
to
name
the
individual,
but
you've
got
to
have
more
than
personnel
matter
on
there.
I
answer
questions
like
that.
Almost
every
day
is
that
enough?
No,
it's
not,
and-
and
that's
just
the
way
the
commission
and
then
the
courts
have
followed
up.
They
want
more
specificity
than
that.
C
You
also
have
to
remember
that
if
you're
dealing
with
a
personnel
matter
and
you're
dealing
with
an
individual,
that
person
needs
to
be
give
be
given
notice
before
the
executive
session
takes
place,
we're
going
to
talk
about
you
behind
closed
doors.
The
person
then
has
the
right
to
come
forward
and
say
no
you're.
Not
I
don't
want
that
to
be
behind
closed
doors.
C
I
want
that
discussion
to
be
held
in
public
so
that
everybody
can
hear
it,
and
if
the
person
goes
down
that
road
and
demands
that
you
cannot
go
into
executive
session,
that's
the
individual's
right
where
people
get
confused
is
that
they
believe
that
okay,
I
don't
want
it
in
public,
but
if
you're
going
to
talk
about
me,
I
definitely
I
should
have
a
right
to
be
in
the
room.
I
have
a
right
to
defend
myself
or
right
to
tell
my
side
of
the
story
and
that's
not
the
case.
C
You
have
a
right
to
do
that
in
public,
but
if
you
waive
that
and
they
go
into
executive
session,
the
board
then
holds
all
the
cards.
The
board
can
invite
somebody
and
typically
in
a
situation
like
that,
the
board
will
invite
the
person
in,
but
it's
never
required
to
do
that
so
sort
of
file
that
away
the
board's
never
required
to
invite
anybody
into
an
executive
session
it
can.
C
The
executive
session
for
pending
claims
and
pending
litigation
is
pretty
much
what
it
sounds
like.
There's
a
lawsuit,
there's
an
foi
complaint.
There's
a
chro
complaint.
You
want
to
talk
about
your
strategy,
how
to
handle
it.
It
also
is
a
little
broader
in
that
it
lets
a
board
contemplate
taking
legal
action.
C
You
know
you've
got
somebody
who's
who's,
not
paying
his
taxes
and
you
want
to
take
action
against
them,
but
you
wouldn't
have
to
discuss
it
in
public
and
tip
that
person
off
that
you're
going
to
send.
You
know
you're
going
to
take
legal
action.
I
guess,
if
you
go
into
executive
session,
what
do
you
think
wrote
a
lot
of
taxes?
What
do
you
want
to
do
and
you
could
have
that
conversation
behind
closed
doors?
C
People
say
well,
wait
a
minute
we're
going
to
come
out
and
vote
on
it.
Are
we
going
to
tip
them
off
then,
and
the
answer
would
be
if
you're,
if
you're
specific?
Yes,
so
the
law
sort
of
gives
you
a
little
wiggle
room,
there
make
a
motion
that
we
follow
through
on
the
on
the
legal
action
that
we
discussed
in
executive
session
to
protect
the
city's
rights.
You
know
something
like
that.
E
C
C
Really
only
comes
into
play
if
you
are
the
agency
providing
the
care
so
now.
The
reason
you
could
have
that
conversation
behind
closed
doors
is
that
there
is
an
exemption
for
records
that
have
medical
information
in
them,
so
you're
going
into
executive
sessions
to
talk
about
this
person's
performance.
F
C
C
C
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
so
no
you're
you're
well
within
your
rights
to
do
that.
When
we,
when
we
enter
the
the
public
sector
as
employees,
we
we
tend
to
lose
some
of
our
expectation
of
privacy.
And
you
know
if
health
is
an
issue
in
somebody
doing
his
or
her
job.
The
people
in
control
would
would
clearly
have
a
right
to
talk
about
it
and
and
and
deal
with
it
in
that
way.
C
Talking
about
the
extra
resource
officers,
the
extra
measures
they're
going
to
take
to
to
keep
the
school
safe
to
bulletproof,
glass
and
things
like
that.
It's
stuff
that
none
of
us
in
this
room
ever
had
to
worry
about
when
we
went
to
school.
But
it's
it's
a
reality
now
and
clearly
a
conversation
about
something
like
that
with
a
room
full
of
people
on
the
off
chance
that
the
wrong
person
is
sitting
in
the
audience
would
give
them
the
option
to
have
that
conversation
behind
closed
doors.
C
The
the
executive
session.
You
know,
takeaway
is
remember
it's
it's
part
of
a
meeting.
You
need
to
vote
to
go
in.
You
need
to
take,
have
your
discussion
and
then
make
sure
the
minutes
reflect
what
the
topic
was.
Who
went
into
the
executive
session
when
you
went
in
and
when
you
went
out.
That's
that's
kind
of
the
key
to
making
sure
executive
sessions
don't
and
when
you're
in
there
and
gosh.
I
know
the
temptation
is
great.
Well
gee,
now
we're
behind
closed
doors.
Let's
talk
about
other
stuff,
don't
do
it!
C
G
C
If
you
are
performing
a
governmental
function,
the
answer
would
be
yes,
if
you're,
if
you're
act,
if
you're
acting
in
this
the
shoes
of
government
or
if
you've
been
given
a
task
by
by
the
governmental
entity,
you
must
perform
this
in
the
name
of
the
city
or
the
town.
Yes,
all
right
make
sense.
Okay,
any
other
questions
executive
session.
C
Okay,
so
I
mentioned
that
there
were
sort
of
two
paths
that
boards
could
take
to
exclude
the
public,
the
second
one's
a
little
funky
in
the
definition
of
the
law
of
the
meeting,
which
I
read
to
you,
this
next
sentence
says
meeting
does
not
include
meeting,
does
not
include.
It
then
lists
a
series
of
things,
many
of
which
every
one
of
us
would
say
gee.
That
sounds
like
a
meeting.
C
C
The
law
says
that,
yes,
it
looks
like
a
meeting
when
you're
having
collective
bargaining
negotiations
strategy
sessions,
but
for
the
purposes
of
foi,
it's
not
a
meeting.
So
it's
not
noticed
it's
not
open.
There
are
no
minutes
executive
level,
search
committees,
superintendent
of
schools
retires.
The
board
forms
an
executive
level
search
committee.
C
It
can
operate
outside
of
freedom
of
information
that
one
I
kind
of
understand.
If
you're
looking
for
you
know
top
level
employee,
you
may
get
people
who
are
already
employed
and
don't
want
their
current
employers
to
know
it.
So
clearly
they
could,
you
know,
do
that
they'd
be
more
comfortable.
Applying
you
get
more
applicants
if
you
didn't
have
to
reveal
you
know
when
they
were
going
to
when
they
were
going
to
apply
and
all
those
sort
of
things.
C
C
So,
let's
not
be
naive.
Let's
be
realistic,
you
guys
love
each
other
right,
you're,
going
to
go
out
to
dinner,
you're,
probably
going
to
talk
about
council,
business
or
city
business
right.
Here's!
What
you
need
to
remember!
You
want
to
avoid
the
deep
deliberative
conversations
that
you
should
be
having
here
at
the
at
the
table.
The
reality
is,
we
can't
be
naive.
Those
conversations
are
going
to
take
place,
they're
going
to
happen,
but
don't
get
into
that.
C
C
C
C
What
do
we
ought
to
do
about
that
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
the
emails
are
flowing
back
and
forth
and
you're
having
a
meeting
via
email
people
says
who's
going
to
know
the
person
who
says
I
want
to
see
any
and
all
emails
between
council
members
about
topic
x.
They
become
public
records.
When
you
create
an
email
in
the
conduct
of
groton
city
business,
it
becomes
a
public
record
and
in
theory
somebody
could
see
it.
C
Somebody
could
read
it
and
say:
oh,
my
goodness,
they're
having
an
improper
meeting,
they
could
feed
it
to
the
london
day
and
then
you've
got
a
mess
on
your
hands.
Don't
stop
using
these
devices
to
communicate
when's
the
meeting
going
to
be
here's
what
I
think
about
that
issue.
Folks,
let's
bring
it
to
the
next
meeting
and
talk
about
it.
That's
fine
too!
But
the
debate,
the
conversation,
you
don't
want
to
let
the
snowball
roll
down
the
hill.
This
is
a
great
idea
that
I
have
then
you
write
back
and
say
I
think,
that's
stupid.
C
C
You
will
get
people
who
will
come
before
you
and
say
I
want
everywhere
and
then
they'll
launch
into
this.
You
know
gettysburg
address.
I
want
every
word
of
this
in
the
minutes,
blah
blah
blah.
Well,
you
can
put
it
in
there
if
you
want,
but
you
are
not
required
to
do
that.
The
only
requirement
for
minutes
the
only
legal
requirement
for
minutes
is
a
record
of
who
votes
for
what
or
for
whom.
That's
all
that's
legally
required.
Now
you
want
more
than
that
in
there
you're
creating
the
city
historical
record.
C
C
C
A
So
my
question
about
the
minutes
is,
I
know
you
have
seven
days
to
make
them
available
to
people,
but
you
have
48
hours
to
make
the
votes
available
right
do
the
votes.
So
if
you
don't
have
the
minutes
completed
within
the
48
hours,
how
do
you
need
to
make
those
votes
available?
Or
do
you
just
have
to
know
them?
So
you
can
give
them.
C
The
latter
okay,
now
they
should
be
written
down
somewhere
so
that
if
you're
not
there,
someone
knows
you
know,
but
the
idea
is
that
if
I
miss
the
meeting
within
48
hours,
I
should
be
able
to
know
who
voted
for
whether
for
whom,
but
that's
not
necessarily
a
formal
document
that
gets
filed
anywhere.
If
you
don't
want
it
to
be
some
people
you're
welcome.
Some
people
try
to
get
their
minutes
done
with
48
and
then
they're
done,
but
that's
those
are
people
with
a
lot
of
time
on
their
hands.
C
D
C
Setting
up
a
meeting
what's
going
to
be
on
the
agenda,
all
of
those
are
fine,
yeah
yep,
anything
else
on
meetings.
Did
you
come
to
caucus
caucus?
I
didn't
I'll
be
happy
to
nope
I'll,
be
happy
to
sometimes
see.
I
thought
I
thought
you
guys
were
not
politically
motivated
here.
You
didn't
have
that.
No
right,
I'm
teasing!
That's
what
I
when
I
talked
about
when
I
talked
about
things
that
are
listed,
that
are
not
a
meeting
that
you
scratch
your
head.
C
The
mayor
brings
up
the
caucus.
The
law
says
that
members
of
the
same
board
and
the
same
party
are
allowed
to
caucus
without
noticing
a
meeting.
So
I
mean
I
don't
know.
Let's
suppose
you
three
are
one
party
and
you
three
or
the
other
party,
you
can
go
off
and
talk
about
anything
you
want
until
the
cows
come
home
and
it's
not
a
meeting
same
board
same
party.
C
Let's
suppose
the
mayor
is
in
your
group,
I
don't
see
anybody
saying.
No,
so
you
know
they
must
like
you
enough
to
want
to
talk
to
you
at
least
right.
So
this
is
a.
This
would
be
a
quorum
of
your
board
and
you're
saying
wait
a
minute
and
that's
like
a
major
loophole
in
this
law,
but
remember
in
1975
those
were
politicians
putting
this
law
together,
so
the
caucus
the
caucus
allows
members
of
the
same.
C
So
in
theory
the
the
quorum
of
the
board
go
okay,
we're
going
to
do
this
this
this
and
this
and
then
walk
into
the
meeting,
and
they
could
rubber
stamp
things.
We
don't
like
that,
but
the
law
does
have
that
loophole
and
if
you
think
you
know
it's
a
problem
in
a
town
like
yours,
where
people
being
serious
would
probably
get
along
well
enough.
C
B
C
In
the
past,
not
necessarily
from
here
but
in
adjacent
places
that
have
they
were
in
the
middle
of
a
meeting,
they
call
a
caucus
and
they
go
and
they
do
the
thing
they
come
back
and
they'll
vote
yeah,
I
mean
technically,
that's
not
illegal,
but
I
I
would,
I
would
argue,
it's
bad
policy
and
bad
form.
That
would
be.
That
would
be
my
my
argument
against
that.
C
F
C
A
C
H
E
Put
in
there,
so
I
mean
this
came
up
at
another
job
I
was
at,
and
somebody
had
asked
me
because
I
have
a
history
of
medical
and
I'm
like
well,
I'm
gonna
look
that
up.
So
you
know
we're
going
into
a
lot
of
people
asking
different
questions
and
when
I
looked
at
the
department
of
public
health
and
asked
questions
and
researched
it,
the
answer
that
I
received
to
break
it
all
down
that
it
boiled
down
to
was,
if
you're,
underneath
the
hipaa
umbrella,
then
you
cannot
discuss
those
issues
or
items
with
other
people.
C
That,
yes,
but
you
wouldn't
necessarily
be
on
your
hip,
but
you're,
not
providing
the
care
you're.
Not
you
know
when
you
read
the
provision
in
this
in
act,
it's
about
the
hipaa's
for
the
hospitals,
for
the
people
who
are
providing
care,
but
you're
dealing
with
a
medical
issue
that
involves
someone's
employment.
C
H
So,
even
though
that
job
wasn't
a
health
care
job
because
she
was
under
hip-hop
after
other
job
like
that
was
violating
hipaa,
but
she
talked
about
it
outside
work
or
whatever.
So
I
think
that's
what
like
kind
of
the
difference
is.
It
would
be
like
if
I
was
a
nurse
and
that
so
like.
If
I
was
a
nurse
and
I
worked
at
a
hospital
where
one
of
our
employees
went,
I.
H
C
C
That
is
that
that
there
is
some
yeah.
There
is
some
logic
to
that
train
of
thought
too.
I
get
questions
a
lot
of
times
on
hipaa
from
police
departments
and
fire
departments.
You
know,
they've
got
their
reports,
police
on
scene
so
and
so
was
convulsing
or
something
like
that.
Do
we
have
to
redact
that
the
answer
is
no
because
they
never
provided
the
care.
C
C
C
The
the
simple
thing
to
remember
about
public
records
I
alluded
to
it
before
is
when
you
create
something
in
the
conduct
of
city
business,
when
you
take
it
in
when
somebody
sends
you
a
letter
when
you
know
you
read
something
when
you
use
something
when
you,
it
falls
under
the
definition
the
umbrella.
Let
me
read
you
listen
to
how
broad
this
definition
is.
C
Public
records
or
files
means
any
recorded
data
or
information
relating
to
the
conduct
of
the
public's
business,
prepared,
owned,
used,
received
or
retained
by
a
public
agency
or
to
which
a
public
agency
is
entitled
to
receive
a
copy
by
law
or
contract.
Whether
such
data
or
information
be
handwritten,
typed
tape,
recorded
videotaped
printed
photo
stated,
photographed
or
recorded
by
any
other
method.
C
That's
pretty
broad
that
covers
just
about
everything,
and
then
you
add
this
on
to
it,
except
is
otherwise
provided
by
any
federal
law
or
state
statute.
All
records
maintained
are
kept
on
file
by
any
public
agency.
Whether
or
not
such
records
are
required
by
any
law
or
by
any
rule
or
regulation
shall
be
public
records
and
every
person
shall
have
the
right
to
inspect
such
records
promptly
during
regular
office
or
business
hours.
C
What
makes
compliance
with
the
records
provisions
hard
and
you
know,
jill
and
the
mayor
and
others
who
work
in
the
public
sector.
I
suspect
you
have
to
deal
with
this
too,
is
that
on
top
of
those
base
definitions
there
are
different
exemptions
and
exclusions.
You
know
I
mentioned
the
exemption
for
bids.
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
health
records.
There's
an
exemption
for
you
know
records
that
are
medical
records
that
might
be
an
invasion
of
somebody's
privacy
if
they
were
released
to
the
public.
C
But
you
have
to
go
to
the
base
idea
that
everything's
a
public
record
and
then
apply
the
exemptions
a
lot
of
times.
We
react
impulsively.
Oh
no,
that's
that's!
That's
a
horrible
record!
We
can't
you
know,
that's
embarrassing.
We
can't
release
that.
That's
you
know
that
record
is
offensive.
We
can't
release
that
well
if
it's
offensive,
but
it's
a
reason
that
somebody
got
punished
or
fired,
or
something
like
that.
The
public
might
have
a
right
to
know.
So,
if
you
ever
in
your
capacities,
get
a
freedom
of
information
request.
C
Remember,
first
of
all
that
you
need
to
respond
within
four
business
states.
Now
I
don't
know
how
you're
structured
here,
whether
somebody
does
that
for
you,
but
always
get
you
know,
find
out
who
that
is.
Somebody
writes
to
you
and
says
I
want
you
know
all
your
emails
about
a
particular
project
that
you're,
you
know
you're
involved
in
find
out
what
you're
supposed
to
do
to
get
those
out.
C
We
you
know,
and
and
by
the
way
we
get
them
to
today,
I
printed
out
must
have
been
about
30
emails
from
from
a
woman
who
is
giving
us
great
difficulty
at
this
point.
She
thinks
that
there's
some
sort
of
conspiracy
going
on
with
her
the
case
that
she's
got
so.
She
asked
for
all
the
emails
of
all
the
employees
in
the
agency
and
as
tedious
as
it
was.
We
turned
him
over.
We
responded
to
her
within
four
days
and
then
we
produced
them
but
see
we
we
do
that
sort
of
for
a
living.
C
B
C
B
So
all
floyd
information
is
coordinated
at
the
mayor's
office,
the
police
they
do
specific
foias
for
them
all.
Other
information
is
here
because
when
I
first
got
here,
foia
was
everywhere
and
we
had
no
control
of
where
it
was
when
it
was.
The
information
was
provided
differently
with
no
consistency
and
people
did
not
understand
records
requirements
or
anything
like
that.
B
We
have
a
standard
form
that
we
use
to
acknowledge
that
we
are.
We
are
in
receipt
of
your
foia
request,
so
the
requirement
is
to
acknowledge
the
foia
request,
not
necessarily
to
provide
all
the
information
to
them
within
48
hours.
Excuse
me
four
days
because
you
may
not
be
able
to
do
that.
There
have
been
foia
requests
when
people
go
in
and
say
any
and
all,
and
it
may
take
months
for
us
to
get
that
to
find
that
information,
particularly
if
it
stands
back
several
years.
B
C
C
Just
make
sure
that
that
acknowledgement
goes
out
in
four
days,
because
if
you
don't
they
can
say
you
denied
it
especially
a
good
point
for
me
to
jump
in
some
people
have
taken
to
using
this
law
as
a
weapon
as
a
means
of
getting
back
at
people.
So
say
you,
you
vote
on
something
that,
and
they
don't
agree
with
you
and
then
they
start
asking
for
every
every
email,
you've
ever
written
or
every
document
you
have.
You
know
we
don't
we
don't
encourage
that
we
discourage
it.
C
We
try
to
stop
it,
but
the
reality
is:
it's
probably
under
the
umbrella
of
the
law.
A
legitimate
records
request,
you're
going
to
need
to
respond,
get
that
answer
out
in
four
days,
but
then
remember
again,
with
the
city's
help
that
it
doesn't
mean
that
everything
stops
the
freedom
of
information
isn't
intended
to
bring
government
to
a
halt.
C
C
C
They're
in
the
basement,
we've
got
to
find
them
all
those
things
come.
So
if
someone
says
they
weren't
fast
enough,
all
of
those
things
are
factors
when
the
commission
makes
a
ruling
on
that,
the
commission
I've.
I
have
at
least
believed
to
be
very
fair.
I
mean
I
saw
one
case
where
the
state
police
said:
listen.
This
took
us
a
year
and
a
year.
How
could
that
possibly
be
prompt,
but
the
way
they
laid
it
out
it
was.
It
was
indeed
prompt
under
the
definition
of
the
law,
so
that
that's
a
factor
as
well.
A
D
B
There
let
me
go
on
the
record
now
that
what
I
said
before
all
four
requests
are
controlled
out
of
marijuana
not
controlled,
not
meeting
controlling
information.
We
have,
we
have
a
record.
We
have
a
log
book,
those
kind
of
things,
so
if
any
board
or
commission
or
council
gets
a
request
for
freedom
of
information,
get
it
to
get
it
to
us
me
or
jill,
and
then
we
will.
We
will
take
it
from
there.
We'll
acknowledge
receipt,
there'll
be
a
record
of
that
and
then
it's
in
our
court.
B
I
said
we
we
got
several
years
ago
after
the
kentucky
derby
thing
any
and
all
information
about
any
entertainment
from
any
staff
and
all
this,
and
so
that
took
a
while
to
figure
out
and
some
of
it
we
had,
but
some
of
it
they
wanted
us
to
generate
they
wanted.
They
wanted
specific
information
in
a
form
you
do
not
have
to
generate
that
form.
C
He's
seen
this
presentation
before
he
could
he
could
give
it
at
this
point,
but
he's
absolute,
but
he's
absolutely
right
and
you're
also
not
required
to
do
research
and
hand-in-hand
with
not
having
required
not
being
required
to
create
a
record
and
just
by
the
way.
What
happens
is
someone
says
even
a
record
that
they're
supposed
to
have
it
and
they
insist
that
they
have
to
and
they
follow
through,
and
they
insist
on
having
a
hearing.
If
you
go
to
a
hearing
and
say,
look
they've
g,
they
say
they
give
me
everything.
C
C
With
that,
a
lot
of
times
people
will
call
a
public
agency
or
write
to
a
public
and
say
I
need
you
to
you
know
how
about
that
and
you
and
you
have
no
idea
what
they're
they
basically
ask
you
to
analyze,
something
or
or
figure
something
out
for
them.
Not
required
it's
about
records
that
already
exist,
and
that's
that's
what
you
would
have
to
produce.
C
I
told
you:
there
were
a
lot
of
different
exemptions
and
things
like
that.
Let
me
just
just
show
you
one
just
to
show
you
how
it
works
and
this
kind
of
came
up
before
when
we
were
talking
about
you
know
health
records,
there's,
there's
an
exemption
in
the
freedom
of
information
act
that
allows
a
public
agency
to
withhold
the
contents
of
a
personnel
file.
C
The
standard
for
invasion
of
privacy
was
set
back
in
1993
state
supreme
court
case.
It's
called
the
perkins
decision
and
perkins
is,
was
a
teacher
who
objected
to
the
release
of
her
attendance
records
and
it
went
all
the
way
to
the
supreme
court.
The
supreme
court
said
those
of
us
who
are
in
the
public
sector
should
expect
our
attendance
records
to
be
public.
The
public
has
a
right
to
know
what
they're
paying
for
when
we're
at
work.
C
The
court
then
said
to
have
been
an
invasion
of
this
person's
privacy.
The
release
of
those
records
would
have
to
have
been
both
highly
offensive
and
not
a
matter
of
public
concern
and
that
set
the
standard
which
we
we
go
by
today
highly
offensive
and
not
a
matter
of
public
concern,
critical,
not
in
either
or
but
both.
C
So
when
a
request
comes
in
for
a
personnel
file
and
it's
personnel,
medical
or
similar
files,
someone
looks
at
it
and
says:
would
releasing
this
be
an
invasion
of
privacy?
The
hr
person
says,
you
know,
I
think
it
meets
both
of
those
standards
then,
and
only
then
do
they
go
to
the
employee
and
say:
we've
got
a
request
for
your
personnel
file.
Do
you
want
us
to
give
it
out
or
not
the
employee
says
I
don't
care,
then
out
it
goes.
If
the
employee
says
no
wait
a
minute.
C
C
A
few
years
ago
there
was
a
situation
where
a
police
officer
was
rumored
to
be
having
all
kinds
of
trouble
at
home.
The
rumors
got
very
loud
so
loud
that
they
took
him
off
the
street
and
they
put
him
on
desk
duty.
They
did
an
internal
affairs
investigation.
It
was
serious.
The
internal
affairs
investigation
was
thorough.
It
had
lots
of
information
that
he
was
having
problems
at
home.
C
C
The
hartford
current
immediately
asked
for
a
copy
of
this
internal
affairs
report
a
lot
of
times,
people
even
police
departments,
say
internal
affairs.
That's
probably
yeah.
That's
again,
that
umbrella
is
big
public
records,
so
current
asked
for
it.
Middletown
pd
thinks
about
it
and
says
highly
offensive
all
this
stuff
about
his
personal
life
at
home,
and
does
the
public
really
need
to
know
it
if
he's
doing
a
good
job
as
a
cop?
C
No,
it
meets
both
prongs,
we're
not
going
to
give
it
out,
and
so
the
current
file
is
a
complaint.
It
goes
to
the
foi
commission
and
the
commission
agrees.
It
says
highly
offensive
to
tell
what's
going
on
at
home
and
they
don't
all
they
need
to
know,
is
he's
doing
a
good
job
and
he's
doing
a
good
job.
So
it
was
never
released,
but
the
key
is
meeting
both
prongs
of
the
test
many
times
many
times.
C
The
highly
offensive
standard
is
met,
especially
in
situations
where
someone's
being
disciplined
or
terminated
or
demoted,
because
they've
done
something
wrong.
That's
kind
of
offensive
to
tell
the
rest
of
the
world,
but
it's
something
the
public
has
a
right
to
know,
because
a
police
officer
was
highly
decorated
is
now
you
know,
busted
down
to
you,
know
patrolman,
because
he's
done
something
horrible,
so
so
that,
but
it's
it's
a
it's
a
case-by-case
decision
and
it's
and
it
can
be
really
hard.
C
I
I
know
you
have
more
work
to
do.
Let
me
let
me
just
give
you
one
example
of
something
else,
just
to
stress
this
point,
or
maybe
two
examples
but
think
in
terms
of
it
being
a
public
record.
It's
so
important
that
you
remember
that
when
you
create
something
it
becomes
a
public
record
think
before
you
write
and
clearly
think
before
you
send
again
the
way
we
communicate
today
just
think
this
situation
comes
to
us
from
one
of
our
major
cities
and
again
we've
been
operating.
C
You
know
behind
closed
doors,
virtually
and
all
that,
so
it's
it's.
You
know
it's
been
a
challenge
for
everybody
in
this
situation.
This
this
city
law
department
was
looking
for
a
senior
legal
secretary,
but
conducting
all
the
interviews
via
zoom
or
one
of
those
platforms,
and
so
they
didn't
ever
actually
sit
in
the
room
and
do
the
interviews
all
elect
you
know
electronic.
C
C
Would
you
write
that
right?
So
he
sends
that
so
so
it's
a
public
record
that
nobody's
going
to
see
except
the
person
in
the
law
department
who
got
this
accidentally
put
it
on
the
screen
during
a
deposition
in
court,
because
that
was
also
being
done
virtually
so
the
whole
world
got
to
see
that
email
think
before
you
write
now,
I'm
going
to
give
them
the
benefit
of
the
doubt.
C
I
don't
think
there
was
anything
malicious
here.
I
think
this
was
one
guy
a
little.
You
know
this
was
truly
locker
room
talk
one
guy,
given
the
other
guy
the
needles,
I
don't
think
they
meant.
You
know
there
was
anything,
but
it's
highly
embarrassing
right
think
think
before
you
write
think
before
you
send,
because
it
could
become
a
now,
it
may
fall
under
one
of
those,
many
exemptions.
I
only
showed
you
one
there's
multiple
exemptions,
but
it
could
you
just
want
to
make
sure
that?
C
Okay,
if
I
don't
want
to
see
this
on
the
front
page
then
on
the
day,
maybe
I'm
not
going
to
send
it.
Okay
think
be
smart
about
it,
one
other
similar
example.
I
got
a
call
a
couple
months
ago
now,
from
a
woman
she
says:
hi,
my
name
is
shawn.
I
said
hi
sean.
How
are
you
she
said
good?
She
says
I'm
calling
you
from
georgia,
georgia,
who's,
calling
connecticut
fy
from.
A
C
C
C
C
C
Now,
what's
going
to
happen,
is
that
we'll
close
out
and
I'm
going
to
walk
out
of
here
in
about
20
minutes?
After
that
you
say
I
should
have
asked.
I
spend
my
whole
day
answering
questions.
People
call.
I
have
witnesses
that
I
call
back.
It's
been
a
little
funky
with
us
working
sometimes
in
the
office.
Sometimes
not
the
message
goes
to
the
phone
at
the
desk.
I
retrieve
it
you
know
within
the
hour,
then
I
call
people
back,
but
you
will
get
a
call
back.
C
Don't
ever
hesitate
to
pick
up
the
phone
and
call
or
send
an
email
I'll
get
you
an
answer.
If
I
don't
know
an
answer,
I'm
not
afraid
to
say
I
don't
know
I'll
ask
one
of
the
attorneys
and
it's
never
an
order.
It's
never
a
command.
It's
what
we
think,
based
on
the
circumstances
that
you've
presented
you
should
do,
and
then
you
can
obviously
make
up
your
own
mind
after
that.
C
E
So
when
you
were
telling
the,
I
think
it
was
an
example
of
you're
sitting
out
in
public
and
then
the
person
in
the
other
booth,
here's
what
you
have
to
say
so
they're
going
to
make
a
complaint,
but
we're
going
verbatim.
So
that's
what
he
said
she
said,
but,
as
you
further
talked
you
were
talking
about,
be
careful.
What
you
write
be
careful
what
you
write.
So
how
does
verbatim
end
up.
C
C
H
B
B
When
could
we
meet
again
to
come
back
with
these
guys
because
we
had
to
meet
again
before
they
voted
on
the
budget
and
coming
to
find
out
now
that
we
couldn't
do
it,
and
we
ended
up
talking
about
that
the
morning
of
the
budget,
and
it
was
that's
the
year
that
we
got
cut
830
thousand
dollars
and
it
was
just.
But
that
really
happened
I
mean
so,
but
but
see
they
filed
a
complaint.