Groton Municipal Television, CT Groton Historic District, 1 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: Groton Historic District Commission 2/1/22

Description

Groton, Connecticut municipal meeting: Historic District Commission February 1, 2022. Click on the link below to view the agenda.

https://www.agendasuite.org/iip/groton/file/getfile/60904

A

All right, this meeting of the historic district commission will take place in a webinar format through zoom. The chair of the commission is sarah moriarty host of the webinars, the building officials staff attending this meeting include peters of english and linda galetta. Anyone speaking should state their names prior to speaking each time. The panelists in this webinar meeting will be the commission members and the building staff panelists, who would like to comment on an item should indicate such by using the icon to raise hand at the bottom of the screen.

A

After a panelist raises their hand, they will be able to comment one at a time when called upon by the chairperson panelists should mute their microphones until called upon panels calling into the meeting by telephone may raise and lower their hand by pressing star nine to mute or unuse. Your calls press star six to make a motion or second motion. Commission members can raise a hand and be acknowledged by the host or chair to vote on a motion. Commission members will be called upon individually by the chair to vote.

A

The public can participate in the meeting during the public communications agenda item. The public will be asked to raise their hand during public communications if they want to speak at this time by using the icon to raise hand at the bottom of the screen. The public will be called upon by the host. One at a time will be able to speak during this time. Attendees must identify themselves before speaking.

B

Thank you peter, so I will start this meeting at 702 on february 1 and I think the only sitting commission member we're missing. If I can see everybody right is eric right correct. So I will appoint um bill in eric's place for this evening and I will call htc 21-54 20 pearl street john mccarrick owner applicant, fencing.

C

Didn't read my thing yet.

B

Oh I'm sorry, I.

D

Agree, I'm out of sorts.

B

I'll go back, go ahead, todd.

A

There's no there's no public. This is just a continuation, so there was no.

E

So are we up to my uh application.

B

Is this mr mccarrick? Yes,.

E

B

We are, you have the floor,.

E

Wonderful um I this is my second time with you for the fencing proposal and the first time I went with vinyl, and you said you would not accept that. So I did uh send in another picture which um linda golotti said she did load on the website, which I actually don't see it it's, but it's essentially a red cedar, three foot, high picket fence and we're at this point in time. I'm just going to be doing the front of the yard and I'll come back to the commission for the backyard fence at a later date.

F

Peter I posted that um at the very beginning of the.

A

Video right there right.

E

F

That's not what I.

E

F

If you scroll all the way down to the bottom.

A

Yeah, that's where I'm at, let's see how it was down there.

B

I saw it earlier because linda gave us a notice that she posted it, and I I did. I.

C

A

E

Yeah, I know I did talk to her today.

F

Is it peter, is it not down at the bottom after the minutes.

A

No, the last page was this: just the.

B

G

B

H

It was a separate email.

E

E

I don't know if you can see it.

E

Is is the picture that you should have received.

B

Yes, that's what I had seen.

E

B

I

E

Going to find it it's just it's a three foot high um it'll fairly fairly closely match my neighbor's fence.

E

And it's really just to replace that uh wooden fence. That's just in the front right now and on the sides on the left and the north and south side of the property.

B

Bear with me for just one minute.

C

Peter, are you letting everyone into the meeting, because I guess are you just letting them in when they're called.

A

I've tried to let everyone in some of them didn't pop in, for some reason, all.

C

Right because I I guess there are some other people trying to come in, I just got a message.

A

I tried promoting them to panelists and for some reason, I'm not coming in.

C

Yeah, I got a message that susan fisher that the museum's trying to get in.

B

So peter can I screen share.

J

B

All right hold on, I have 7 000 tabs open so.

B

Let me see if I can just get this one: okay,.

B

B

So this is what I believe was submitted earlier.

E

That's that's the picture I sent over. Yes.

B

Yes, this was just the email that went with it. um Three foot tall fence, rear fence will not be replaced at this time, and then this was the illustration.

G

I

E

The reasons are because the fence, as the other photos I sent over, is fairly well deteriorating.

B

Okay, so does do any of so I'm sorry, I'm not being very articulate. So this is just this fence in the front you're not doing either of the sides.

E

Yeah I'm going to deal, I don't know what we're going to do with the backyard fence. Yet.

B

Okay, all right is: does any of the commission members have any questions or comments for mr mccarrick.

H

No, the material is red cedar and it's going to look like that.

E

They'll explain it.

B

Questions or comments.

E

I have a propane tank in the back of the house along the driveway and I'm going to move it to the back of the house on the north side of the house, so the driveway's on the south side. But I have to come to the commission. You can't see it from the road.

B

We can't see it, you don't have to come to us.

A

B

Okay, I'm just gonna, stop screen sharing and give it back to peter.

K

Bonnie you're, muted.

K

You're still muted.

L

I'm just saying if you could see it from gravel street you'd still have to submit it.

E

No, I don't think you can, because the garage behind us blocks the view from gravel street into the backyard perfect.

B

So does anyone have any other additional comments before we close this public hearing for mr mccarrick?

B

No, all right. Thank you. Htc 21-54 is closed.

E

B

Thank you. Thank you. Open public hearings on htc 21-54 20 pearl street. This is the application that we just saw. This was the addition of the fence across the front of the property. That's a three foot tall red cedar fence that we just looked at any questions or comments or motions, bonnie, you're, muted,.

L

I make a motion to approve this very beautiful fence: okay,.

H

B

All right, uh all in favor I'll, do a roll call ferguson.

H

B

Moriarty I levinson um brady hi. The application is approved.

E

All right super, thank you.

B

All right, thank you, so it doesn't look like we have any other public hearings. So if you guys don't mind, I'm just going to jump off because I'm managing a few things.

B

Is that all right with me.

I

B

Todd can you run the meeting.

H

Okay, I was going to say, todd is somebody. You said you got a phone call from somebody who wanted to jump in.

C

Yeah they well, I know, there's a bunch of names of divinely susan fisher from the museum um contacted rodolfo and rodolfo said she couldn't get in. She was trying to get in.

B

All right, I'm going to step out guys thanks so much.

H

Thank you thanks.

M

H

Yeah be well, sir,.

A

H

A

The only person that some reason I keep trying to promote the panel someone come on is kate, jay.

C

The only one will come on.

A

I keep clicking for promoting to panelists for some reason: they're not going there, so I don't know if they're just on the phone somebody's raising their hand. They'll hang on a second there's. A lot of people on here.

N

uh Hello, can you hear me yeah? I.

F

Can hear you yes, yeah.

N

It's bill burchie. This is for a preliminary hearing. All right hang on hang on bill, yep.

C

So you're, not you have any video right bill.

N

uh Why a video I'd like to share a screen share a screen.

C

Okay, so we don't have any order of peter. We have any order on these pre-apps right.

A

Nope there's it's first come first, ever.

C

Well, all right um all right bill go ahead. Well, if, if can.

N

You can you on this is for 17 gravel street. uh Could you unmute uh dan and christopher knott and brian ryan bryan kent.

A

All right hang on. Let me see dan okay. I asked him down mute, who else.

L

Christopher knott and brian.

A

Christopher not right, there actually he's on muted right now, yep brian's son.

A

N

So can I share the screen yep, we'll click that try that um hmm oh share?

N

Oh, what do I do here.

N

You are screen sharing.

N

uh Do you see this.

I

N

I

N

uh Can you see the arrow moving around the text? Yes,.

H

N

All right good! So if I can point to things.

O

You're just you're just not maximized bill. um I don't know if that's you, but.

L

Well, it's fine.

N

Yeah yeah. Well, I have a big screen. Oh my gosh.

N

A little better.

H

N

Sure, okay, all right um so 17, gravel street, uh you don't often get a chance to get a streetscape photograph like this uh get across the river and we came about last march, we came uh before the commission and talked about renovating uh this house, which would be substantial improvement and the first floor elevation. The house is elevation, nine and it's in a flood zone where the base flood elevation is 11.

N

and on the shoreline. If this was new construction, substantial improvement uh we would have to. We would be requested to raise the first floor above the base flood of eight elevation, basically elevation 12, which is be three foot higher than the houses right now.

K

Which house are you talking about.

N

uh The one right above the bracket 17. this one right under the got it yep. um So it is possible to appeal.

J

N

Zoning board of appeals for a waiver of flood regulations for historic houses, but, given the investment to renovate the house fix up the additions and what have you, uh it seemed like a better plan to raise the house up three feet um and we had a discussion of just structurally.

N

How would we do that, and we suggested that we can document the house existing house, basically remove it and then rebuild it three feet higher. uh It would be structurally sound against the winds and last another 150 years. uh It's going to be a challenge with all the historic houses that are and.

I

You have another one that goes with the new house, yeah.

N

I

N

Yes, so this house here and basically the project we remove the house and this little garage in the back. uh That's right against the sideline, rebuild the house on a raised foundation with additions and an attached garage to meet fema regulations and then also add an accessory dwelling unit and an in-ground pool with the security fence.

N

uh So we'll have. How would this be.

G

Who's, this is the dan grace. Oh, this is the chair guys.

O

Yeah guy thanks.

N

So we're going on that okay, so, um let's see this is closer up to what the house looks like uh to the left is the garage that would be totally removed.

N

uh The house would be taken down new foundation built raised up and and rebuilt, but you'll see we've documented what the house is on the rear of the house. You can see you have this very low slope. Roof edition uh and you'll see how we handled that uh we did get an a2 survey, so we've got the elevations uh the house footprint.

N

The garage is this garage here. You can see it's right against the line uh and the house uh it's a little beyond this setback line on the north side. Here it's just canted a little bit. It's not quite square to the property line uh so based on that a2 survey. We we basically did this- that the red line well doesn't help me to move my finger here, uh the red line, here's the outline of the existing house.

N

We took this corner and we rotated the house a little bit counterclockwise just to make it parallel to the property line, so the existing is 3.21 feet from the line, uh but by rotating it we could get a uniform. You know seven seven point two feet across the back uh in general.

N

You can see we made those front uh bays a little smaller uh and we'll go through the details of this we did add an addition added space on the first floor towards the rear uh added a little to the addition back here added a covered porch in the back. We have a covered breezeway connecting to the garage. The garage is totally within the setbacks uh and then accessory dwelling unit.

N

uh If, if you haven't run up against that, it needs to be uh less than 800 square feet uh living space measured uh to the inside of the walls, we talked, uh but it's basically a guest guest house.

N

uh So this is this is basically what it looks like uh you know, a lot of work and rendering and and getting it in through photoshop. uh This is really the the same house.

N

uh Well, we, you know, we added some dormers on the front, uh raised up the uh three feet and to compare that uh and I'll just go through this sort of quickly. Fundamentally, what's changed is what strike systems are these large protruding bays on existing house which looked a little too large to us and they're five-sided? You have these straight sides that come out so one two, three four five sides: we took these straight sides out and pushed the angled bays back against the house.

N

We just thought that looked a little better in here uh and we had. We tried different types of roofs on top of them, but we kind of found by taking this porch roof, uh bringing it out and bringing it across the bays uh that looked best to us. You know it seemed uh so that's sort of how we treat it dealt with the base.

N

uh There's a minor thing, we'll get the details. We added some side lights to the front door uh instead of the front door. Here um they were developing the second floor, uh so they wanted a little more access to the river. We, the peak is unique. It's kind of a characteristic of this house, so we saved saved this same peak uh and we just flanked it with some shed dormers.

N

uh You know trying not to be too too uh in your face about a second story. Didn't want it to look like two stories uh back here. You could see where you you had the flat edition for the rear edition coming into the house, and we made those rooms the same pitch as the main house uh with dormers uh you'll, see this a little more in other 3d pictures uh to make things look a little more at ease. uh There is a stone in building up.

N

We have a stone patio here in front uh and since that's just for safety, we put a three foot railing around here. So this is a new design element this railing across the front here um to get an idea what it would look like if you're looking down the driveways we talked about this this front, uh we pushed the door pushed the base back, brought the porch roof out here, added the dormers to either side, and you can see now we have a steeper roof uh with a dormer.

N

This is the rear edition that was sort of that flat edition and to make these peak work peaks work we raised this main roof uh went up a couple of feet and that brought this this eve line visually. It was interesting when we had this roof lower and evin disappeared.

N

It it just didn't, look right: you lost the whole personality. What the what the house was uh so to maintain the look of the house, we we had done that. So looking up the driveway, it's the same, driveway um the window's a little more uniformly spaced. This is the garage in the back, and this way back here is the uh accessory dwelling unit and that's pearl street back there. That lock goes all the way through to pearl street.

N

uh If you're to the north of the house, uh it's it's pretty well, it's about seven feet uh and we just made the windows a little more uniform.

N

Probably all you'd really see is this side of the house, and this fence is around the pool and brian kent will address the fences. uh You know things like that how we handled the back. You can see. Here's that back addition on the house uh with the dormers here's, the back porch, uh we added a covered porch on the rear and the garage back here which has sort of a uh office studio uh in that so things that you like are the elevations uh and we can I'll try to zoom in here.

N

You can see this dark black line. That's the top of the existing first floor. That's the first floor of the house. Now the base flood elevate, that's elevation, nine! The base flood elevation from fema maps uh is elevation, 11, that's the blue line and then the codes for uh the town of groton zoning code and the international residential code and fema all say they want the top of the first floor to be a foot above this base flood elevation in this a zone. So that's you can see.

N

That's right, that's the floor level right at right at the door. uh So just note what I talked about was this railing for the stone porch here uh in in two places we reduced the size of the bays left and right.

N

um We extended the porch roof to cover the bays and we added side lights to the front door. Put these dormers on the two sides of the existing gable made this two windows here, but we spread them apart. It's not like you! These are not two windows. You buy them all together, they're like six six to eight inches apart. These are probably six and I think these are eight down here uh and then we raised the main roof up.

N

So it could intersect well with the back edition, and we could see the gable here um and then well. We rebuilt this whole rare edition with the gable roof enormous. um So let me go back to.

N

Okay, you still with me: okay, some sometimes you know things work for me and nobody said I don't see what you're doing uh well. Actually we'll go back to this, so the south, the southern. I keep moving my hand away, so you can see uh here's the southern.

N

uh What the southern neighbor sees you can see it's a lot more uniform classic. uh The building height is really only 26 feet. uh This is the east elevation, the garage you could from the street. You could only really see this corner of the garage, because the rest of it's hidden by the house um see.

N

That was that one okay, so what we've done is taken the existing house and worked out the details you can see for these rake boards. They have a crown molding up here, you know and then the rake board- and you know uh fascia here so basically we'd work out this detail to exactly match what that is. So so that's what the house would be. If you look at this detail with the gutters, what it's really there is there's a wooden gutter.

N

This is this is a you know, must be a cedar gutter in here that they sort of covered it up uh so we'll create that either we'll actually put gutters under there or create the illusion, with a crown molding uh that this is a gutter sticks out and a little piece of code molding in here and then again. This.

N

Gable end and then the trim you see the decorative trim, so all that'll be documented to match existing house. The corner boards was really nothing elaborate of the skirt board they're just sort of five quarter by six boards uh with a skirt board here, and this detail here basically says the clapboard uh we'd like to use just the hardy board. Four inch, clapboard cement board, finish uh factory finished, uh the window casing would be boral trim. Five quarter by four solid window.

N

Sills are two inches by um whatever this depth is boral trim, door casing and uh again borrow five quarter uh by three and a quarter corner boards, and the skirt boards would be five quarter by uh by six for the corner boards now to get a stop. Well, we'll talk about the stone about stone finish on the next page, um so the windows we're thinking of either anderson a series. So I just put an a series which is a fiberglass exterior in a wood interior or an e series.

N

Anderson e series, which is aluminum plaid with an exterior and a wood trim with a modern, divided light. So we'd have the double glazing and the wood mutton bars on the inside and the uh aluminum or the fiberglass mars on the outside, with a spacer bar uh to give it through that authentic look as we look at the center gable.

N

Really, if you look carefully there's you have this shingle pattern and that's the one place we'd like to just do that with a straight edge underneath the shingles we like the shingles, but not the owner, doesn't care for the up and down things and then and we've re re, we'll reproduce this uh hatched uh panel above the windows.

N

uh You know that's sort of what makes mystic houses mystic houses where little builders did stuff. One of the comments from the historic uh archives of the house are these pilasters, which are sort of tapered next to the front door. So we duplicate those next to the door in the paneling between between the base there's round columns on the porch. These would be round with fiberglass and the railings here would be either azac trim.

N

Pvc isaac, trim painted and finished or or a borrow.

N

C

Bill sorry, yeah.

N

C

These either or you're going to have to make a decision. And when you come to your public hearing,.

N

Oh okay, all right good! Well, we can I we won't talk to the owner.

D

N

On that uh now I talked about the stone veneer, and this is the detail up here, where the skirt board will stick out uh about three inches. You know with a little water table, but again only only be about a a two by eight piece of trim, and then you you can get cut stone veneer and this uh delgado thin stone veneer actually has a connecticut blend which are sort of the blues and browns of connecticut granite. The worst you can do with strong veneer is oh yeah.

N

We get this stone in kansas all the time you know, and that's not what we want to put on the house. So the key is is to get this and with their mosaic pattern, it's a little more random.

N

uh You know if we go with with a really uh geometric rectangular shapes it'll just be too small. It wouldn't look like like the foundation, so that's the recommendation there uh next to the garage. When I get back to a site plan, uh we do have a full house generator it's in the middle of the site, but it has to be up uh 12 feet. Elevation 12 feet down here also, uh and then this is just a detail. There are along the road where and brian kent will talk about that.

N

There is a stone wall now and with some steps to go up into the yard. uh This is just the detail of the stepping up. Remember I said there was a new railing that you'd see on the stone patio porch. uh This is the detailer railing uh boro trim with with horizontal clapboard.

N

uh It would sit up here and then there's a garden, that's down two feet uh for shrubs and then another drop. So we just don't get a four foot. High stone wall uh just detail the stone steps, um just because I think they're required um floor plans for the house and garage first floor second floor, and if you look at the roof plans, what you can see clearly is here's the you know, sort of the big peaked front house with the porch.

N

This is the porch roof coming around and then this is the edition peaked edition coming coming into it. This is the rear porch uh and then you have the garage and.

D

N

Interesting, uh you were looking at 20 pearl street. You know for an application. Well, the back of the lot 17 gravel street. This front's on pearl street, which is here uh and to the right, is pearl. 20 pearl street and to the left is 26 pearl street and the water a couple of weeks ago, probably got up to just about here when pearl street got got, uh and that was just uh you know- storm surge coming in here.

N

uh So just to repeat there we're now talking about over here the accessory dwelling unit pearl street. uh The idea is that we'd have a driveway entrance here with with with with maybe one parking space to drop off, groceries and stuff uh the main parking back here and along here, uh and then the driveway would still be up here coming coming across here.

N

um So the dwelling sits here. There is a spray stone patio here in the back and a raised wood deck. uh This is what we designed for that.

N

It's sort of this raised summer over the summer kitchen, we've seen that where you have a lower story now, in fact, this is only five and a half foot headroom in here, uh but that that can meet fema standards, no problem, but we think it gives it the look of the kind of houses that you see uh in in mystic, not many of the houses along pearl street are raised. This is this is just meets code uh with the first floor at 12 feet, uh but so that's the porch.

N

um This is the back patio and actually, if you can look on down, there's a river out the right side.

C

So is that is that, first, lower level? Is that really just sort of like a glorified crawl space.

N

Yeah, it's a glorified crawl space, but you could put your lawn furniture in and your kayak and your lawnmower, and you know things like that- always bicycles, riding around uh things. Fema lets you do that. You know it's not finished in any way. It's not heated, it's just, maybe dehumidified!

N

um So really the backyard. Mostly. What you might see is a bit of this patio from gravel street up you'd, be looking up to drive and you'd, see the corner of this patio.

L

So the garage doors for for the garage are facing pearl street.

N

That's correct yes, yeah, uh so that was. That was why I, you know, I showed sort of the back of the.

N

The this, as you say this, this garage faces pearl street, but the accessory dwelling units between the garage and pearl street uh so to just complete.

N

You know we're provide elevations. These are the detailed elevations. It's actually not so high 16 feet, it's actually small. It's only 800 square feet, one story, so that's the west elevation this one's facing this pearl street um east elevation. That's what pace is uh 20 pearl street. uh The details are pretty much the same. We want to use the same stone veneer on the outside.

N

We probably have the same type of trim. I I think that's probably important, so it not looked like something. Oh, they just threw that up there and put the aluminum gutters on there will be gutters, but they'll hang on gutter straps out here, um uh just the same details here and we'll pick, which windows that we want here and just in terms of maybe you can see it. Here's the floor plan there's obviously just the main roof main living space.

N

Just a one bedroom over here bedroom and just one big open space, and then this this being a crawl space in here um so is. Does brian kent active.

N

There was a brian on there is: he we have audio from.

D

Yeah yeah I'm here bill uh so.

N

This I've been.

D

Quietly lurking in the background, okay.

N

Okay, so you're gonna, cue me on so uh we're working with uh kent frost, uh landscape, architects to deal with all of the outside uh furnishings and things that that htc would would be concerned about so brian. You can go ahead.

P

Okay bill. Thank you uh good evening. Everyone, I'm brian kent, um principal landscape, architect with kenton, frost, landscape architecture located in mystic, and this is, I think, the third or fourth residence on gravel street that we've worked on. So I'm going to show you some examples uh later in my presentation of some previous work that relates to what is proposed for this site and on this site.

P

You know, you've you've heard bill describe how the the structures are organized from pearl street across to to gravel, and you know what currently exists is basically an empty lot on the pearl street side and by tying the uh the two, um the streets together uh in a in a you know, a simple circulatory system, we're creating a a a driveway uh uh root for for the owner's vehicles, but we're we're making it circuitous so that it's not a straight shot or doesn't doesn't look or appear or feel like an alleyway.

P

We're also we're also minimizing the width of the driveway to just what is necessary. So the driveways are only 10 feet wide and um and then they're they're, surrounded wherever possible by by landscaping to minimize their their. You know their their exposure and the material for the driveway that we're considering at this point is is uh modular pavers.

P

So so you know if you're familiar with these brick-like concrete interlocking pavers, but in this case we're we're hoping to use permeable pavers so that the the the storm water that falls on the pavement can be absorbed into the underlying soil strata, preventing it from from running down the driveway ends onto the streets, exacerbating the the you know, the occasional flooding that's going on. So so we're going to be looking at the soil capacity to absorb water here and looking at ways that we can improve upon that.

P

So starting on uh I'll, just give you uh what I'm going to do is this overall overview and then I'm going to zoom in on gravel gravel street. First, then, the center area encompassing the garage and then we'll move over to to pearl street. So so, on the on the gravel side, the driveway is basically existing where the existing driveway is no change there, except that you know, it'll be it'll, be a little bit narrower and it'll be a paver material and uh so it'll run up along the side of the house.

P

Just like it does. Today there will be a little pull off parking area for the occupants, so they can get out of their car uh unload groceries and not not block the driveway, uh and then it continues around into the into the garage parking courtyard area, and this is the largest expanse of pavement on the on the site. But it's also obscured and really screened from from both sides from gravel and from pearl streets by the building. So you're not really looking at up into this parking area.

P

You can't really see it except around the edges, and uh so this is where we make this chicane and then we we we switch from the south um uh from from this one side of the site, to the to the north side of the site and around the accessory building, dwelling and and then out onto onto onto pearl, and so that's the the general layout I did not mention, but um between the garage and the main house.

P

There's a small courtyard area with uh with the swimming pool, relatively small compact swimming pool, and that area is entirely um obscured from either roadway. So it's very private and and enclosed there so bill. Can you advance the next slide? Please?

P

So here we're looking at the the gravel street frontage and the first thing to talk about is the the existing stone retaining wall, and this is part of a streetscape that continues basically the all but entire length of gravel street. There are some interruptions, but most of the properties on gravel street have a have a stone retaining wall, and this is that that old hand quarried granite. um You know they're they're, they're, they're, blocky cubular pieces that are different lengths and some of them may have been derived from other building foundations.

P

They certainly have the same size and heft as building foundations, and this existing house on this site has quite a bit of the same stone in this foundation and we're thinking about ways that we might be able to reuse some of that old foundation, stone which, of course, will be replaced by a you know, a a modern structural, concrete foundation, uh veneered in stone as bill described it so we'll have a surplus, we'll have salvaged stone that comes out of the the um the construction, and so one thought is to use that stone to reinforce- and you know, rebuild to a more structural uh capability of this existing wall and also perhaps to use it depending on how much we derive in some of the other walls on the site.

P

So it'd be really appropriate. If we can, if we can utilize sightstone original, you know local quarry granite stone that was used to build many of these houses foundations in mystic in this site. And that's that's our that's our goal and objective in this case uh the stairs that are on the site. You see you see a set of steps up from the street right now that existing stairway is very narrow.

P

It's about three feet wide, so it feels very crimped what we, what we propose to do is widen it to more like four feet and then to put in a very generous stairway of granite steps up to the the main porch another opportunity to use the local salvaged granite and in this in the first terrace area. That's just above the street level. It's really just a simple landscape: it's a functional landscape, so it's principally lawn and uh perhaps a a fringe of low shrubbery against the back of the wall.

P

This was this has been done on on several of the other houses along gravel street and then the um the next set of stairs going up onto the main porch uh with planters flanking either side would have just a you know: another simple kind of landscape element uh in in there. So we're not covering up the stonework with shrubbery. You know we're leaving it open to to view so that the character of that of that you know, quality material uh is, is um perpetuated for the the you know the for the property.

P

Another thing that, though, that is important to the to the owner and to um kind of controlling the um the traffic that that um is, is on gravel street, especially in in tourist season, where people are are driving around and trying to figure out where to go, and they often they often turn around in this driveway.

P

So so it's just a it's just an open space and and the owner has observed on many occasions, people who are just trying to figure out where to park turn into the driveway and um and so too, to provide more security to the site more more, especially for for um kids that might be in the driveway uh grandchildren that might be in the driveway in this case, we're proposing a a wrought iron type gate, a single leaf gate that would fold against the existing fence that runs between the properties, um fold back against that and could could span across the the entire driveway connected to granite posts.

P

uh Like the like, the the existing granite posts on gravel street, in fact, there's one almost in this exact location that we could we could be right um behind.

P

That is a it's a it's an existing um hitching pose, and that would be the latch points for for the gate, but most of the time I think um uh it could be, it could be um more transparent than say a white picket type fence. We were thinking black wrought iron at this point to minimize his appearance, but to tie in with the style of wrought iron, historic fencing.

P

So that's the that's the front area, that's the gravel street frontage and it's um in it and it's designed and now we'll move into the center of the site. So uh next slide please. So this is the swimming pool courtyard, primarily, and the um the the way that the garage and the house uh kind of and the breezeway bracket the pool area is much um much more private. There would be a pool fence enclosure along the north side of the breezeway and it would wrap around and give the pool its code compliant enclosure.

P

Now, on the north side, property line, there is existing variety of just a patchwork of old, decrepit fencing. You know, some of them are just completely disintegrating up there, and what we're proposing to do is to is to just standardize that that property line enclosure with a with a fence line that would be at least in the swimming pool area, would be a full height six foot uh tall, solid uh privacy fence and and then it it either continues uh or steps down.

P

But there's really uh on the on the properties to the north, where we're up against garages and out buildings. So we're really not uh up against a uh a full-time dwelling until we get out to to um pearl street.

P

So we're also tucking in next to the generator. We would have pool equipment in a in a in a small enclosure, so the generator and the pool equipment would be more or less in the same kind of utility enclosure.

P

uh There would be a a lower picket fence there, just just enough to to um uh get it to secure it, that that would be visible. The the west side of the generator fence that uh bill uh uh depicted in some of his renderings that would be visible, but that would of course, just be a a low three to three and a half foot white picket fence. So now, let's move to the next slide. Please!

P

So here you can see the accessory dwelling. The driveway there would be a curb cut on pearl street. um You've got a very wide sidewalk there, it's about an eight foot, wide sidewalk and it's just an irregular shape. That happens to be the um the the property line. So you know the the right-of-way lines are just all over the place in these in these neighborhoods they they weren't, really laid out with with right-of-way in mind. They just happen to to just zig and zag a little bit.

P

So this is one of those places where the the sidewalk is very wide until it until it gets just north of this of this property, and then it steps in again so it it zags back into pearl street, just above this property line to become a more normal width sidewalk. So so here we would. We would have this curb cut and um you know you saw in bill's slide and bill. I don't know if you want to jump to it, but you don't really have to. I think on on your slide.

P

16 was the the street view of pearl street, and you you recall, there was there's really just one long, white picket fence about three and a half feet high, just a standard uh uh three to three and a half inch wide picket vertical, and what we propose to do is put the same type of fence back, so that we have continuity with the existing condition, uh with the exception that each at each of these um endpoints and at you know at these driveway and the walkway uh we're we're considering granite posts uh to give it just to give it a more substantial, endpoint and and in the areas around the house.

P

This this dwelling and the driveway they would just be- would just be relatively low in simple landscaping. So so we're not um not proposing anything really major. In that regard, we are um providing uh a blue stone. Terrace attached to the house on the south side of the house um that connects down to just a few steps down onto the driveway and and really all the walkway paving that's connected to the driveway would be the same. Permeable pavers.

P

Next slide, please.

P

So if, uh if you start in the top left, this is a this is a wrought iron gate um at a residence at the corner of of gravel and eldridge. uh This is a project we worked on a few years ago and we worked with a local blacksmith to fabricate that that gate, so this gate that we're proposing is considerably larger, not necessarily taller, but it would be something along the lines of a simple wrought. Iron uh fence is structural enough to span the width of the driveway.

P

O

You brian brian jump in real quick. Yes, please, I'm sorry uh good evening, everyone! This is uh dan. um I I don't wanna minimize this. I I think the the the issue at hand here besides other streets along gravel is that our driveway uh is right next to the rodriguez's driveway right next door. So it creates this huge opening, as someone's driving by to turn around uh if we're sitting there on whatever the adirondacks chairs are just sitting out enjoying you know the afternoon or whatever it's it's.

O

You know 15 18 20 times an hour like this is not you know once or twice just so. You understand the uh you know the frequency of it. It's people turning around all day and even our friends and neighbors like geez. What's going on like hey it's just the way it is at the moment, but so I just wanted to uh to just put that in there.

P

Yeah thanks so yeah thanks for underlying that issue, so it does need a gate, and uh you know the objective is a you know very attractive, appealing gate ideally made by a local artisan, so that ties it all together.

P

Now the the the other uh piece of the frontage historic pattern of the gravel streetscape is the stone wall and to the right. The next photo you see down at the end. This is again the same property at the corner of eldridge. uh Where, where these these these walls um over you know decades and generations, they tend to uh loosen up.

P

uh You know water gets in the joints and they they may not have been built that um structurally secure to begin with, and they need to be uh re-put just put back together and reinforce so that they can stand there for for another 150 years, and so that's what we've done um on on both of the projects uh on on on gravel street that we've worked on is we've. We've basically put these walls back together, we've added to them. Where necessary.

P

You know we filled in the the broken pieces with new pieces and uh and made them whole again, and that's that's what um that's what we propose to do here? uh The next set down our fencing. uh We, you know we're talking about a stout wooden privacy fence. um This is something that again will last um for a long time, uh not not something. That's that's flimsy and and artificial.

P

The the type of picket fencing, we're talking about again very stout, is substantial, uh more like what's there today, but I am showing a photo of a project that is um on the corner of pearl and star street uh that we worked on a number of years ago. More just to give you a sense of the kind of construction materials that we're talking about just stout, um real wood coated, stain white stain and then the next inset photo. There is a granite uh post with a fence attached to it.

P

Just to give you a sense of what that might look like and then moving on to paving we'll finish with a discussion of paving so for the areas of driveway we're looking for a type of paver. That is, um that is a gray, granite type color scheme so that it blends in with the with the masonry, but has joints that are um about a quarter to three eighths of an inch wide filled with chipstone that allow water to infiltrate. So in a in a relatively flat site.

P

Like this, you get the most uh uh pot, the best possible infiltration of rain water into permeable paving. So this is an ideal site for permeable paving.

P

It doesn't work as well on sloping driveways, because water can run across pavers and not have as much of a opportunity to soak in, but this site is really ideal and that's what we're aiming for on the driveway areas and then on some of the you know the terraces and the porches we're looking at something more like the blue stone in the in the next photo to the right and that you can also see in that photo. The the the wide stairway the granite stairs.

P

That's similar to what we're proposing with a with a wrought iron type railing, and this particular house, also designed by uh mercer, berkshire vernat and uh ken frost landscape of architecture include, is just a similar arrangement of stone steps, a blue stone, the porch at the living level and then stone uh veneer, uh planter walls, and so that ties it all together with the old stone and the new stone and uh and the landscape. And um so that's where I finish up, and uh I think at this point bill I'll hand it back to you.

P

um Thank you for your attention.

F

N

uh uh Dan grace the owner, did you have any other sort of comments? uh Maybe I'll just go back to this dan yep oh hold on.

O

I'm trying to get my, I don't know who can, can you guys see me? Oh yeah, there.

M

O

There you go, um no thank you both uh bill and brian uh thanks to the commission as well, but no, I just want to stress that that obviously, there's been a lot of um time and effort here to to bring together the uh you know, this sort of I say obvious, but need for the fema regulations. I I don't think I'm the first. I'm certainly won't be the first uh to deal with this uh in these times, um but obviously I love the area.

O

I want to do what's right, I'm very willing to uh to work with everyone. I hope we've maintained the uh the essence of things. I certainly do look to repurpose what we can brian talked about some of the granite stuff. We also have a lot of brownstone a lot of bluestone things on the property that we can intermix with the uh with the things as well.

O

um These guys did a great job presenting it. I I don't want to ruin the presentation uh by talking other than I I just I can assure you. um You know this this. This isn't going to get halfway and unfinished um it's it's properly funded uh and and we will bring it to completion um quickly. um You know, given the the approvals that we need, uh so so those are our goals, uh and I just I thank you again for your time.

N

C

The commission.

N

Have comments yeah.

C

um Yeah, does anyone on the commission have any comments about any or all aspects of this.

M

I I have some questions sure yeah. This is john goodrich, so I just want to be clear because maybe I'm not understanding the words what's going to happen to the historic house, that's on there now.

N

It basically, I guess you could say, be demolished, I'm going to say that officially, because I think part of the historic uh permit has to approve demolition of historic houses.

M

Okay, that that that's what I thought it just wasn't clearly said. So I wanted to be clear, so we're basically tearing down the almost 20-year-old home and didn't want to be new construction. Is that correct.

N

Correct and you know we tried to document it as much so we can rebuild it as it.

M

As it was okay and just the question we talked about permeability, I mean they're using the permeable papers, but covering up a lot of what's now open space. Have you guys done any type of study on how it's gonna affect the neighbors? As far as flooding I mean are, are we making it a less permeable situation.

P

Brian, well I mean it's. It is clear that there is going to be more per um impermeable surface, that is, that is correct, you're, absolutely right, and uh so, where the objective is to do as much as possible to infiltrate the water uh as possible and the the the additional measures that might be appropriate pending uh some soil investigation is that roof water could theoretically be directed into infiltrators, but this all depends on doing some soil test pits to determine.

P

You know, what's going on with permeability of the soil groundwater that sort of thing, so we would like to be able to put um as much water as possible into the ground on site. So that's that is really the overarching goal. We just have to get a little further into the um uh analysis of the existing conditions before we can say unequivocally that that is that is feasible, but that um that is our goal.

C

P

C

That's john, that's a good point to raise, but in the final analysis, that's a p and z uh assuming you're gonna need pnc approval for this. I assume um and that's an issue they have to address.

M

No, I get it. Todd is just.

C

M

Curiosity question for me:.

C

I think it's a good one.

N

Oh and uh let me just bring up one other, uh find a site plan here. uh In order to, I would say, maintain this location for the house.

N

uh We'll probably have to go to zba zoning board of appeals and ask for the only variances like right here on the side of the house and we've. We had done this before with historic district properties where they said come, get the historic uh certificate of appropriateness.

N

First then go to zba and then hopefully maybe we have a letter from the commission uh urging that we'd like to keep the house in the same location. uh It has historically been in.

K

I'm a little unclear about the uh the driveway is the driveway on both sides of the property. Or could you just go over that again.

N

uh The driveway is on the southern side, that's where it is now. It comes in here into this garage, so the driveway's there and then this same drive will go right to the garage and then we'll come out. This side come out past the fire plug on this side.

K

So there's not there's none on the north side of the main house, then no.

N

No okay and there's there's none on the south side of of the accessory drawing. We actually tried that, but we're just so tight against 20 pearl street. It would just be a canyon uh kind of awful condition for that house. So we went this way.

L

I have a question: um those permeable um pavers are the pavers themselves. Actually permeable.

A

No, no, no! No! The it's.

L

P

L

I have um uh three comments, one I just so you know I live on pearl street and I am an architect. I think that you have done. They've done a beautiful job of a new house that looks very similar to the historic house, but in just in general I prefer to not take down historic houses and did you look at reusing the existing house and and modifying it and raising it.

N

We haven't been, I I I'm also an engineer, I'm an architect and an engineer uh hadn't been under it, but I've done so many houses and coastal flooding to really tie him down with the sheer walls and stuff. You know brian referred to two other houses. We did uh one at pearl and cliff street and the other one up by eldridge and really every wall stud was taken out and put in new wall studs and every floor. Joist was changed and if you look at the roof light, every rafter was changed.

N

It's like every board in the house is changed, so it's not just a simple matter of let's just jack it up three feet and uh work foundation underneath it um it's it's uh it's a difficult decision. I understand this excuse me. I was on the board many many years ago and and uh there was an old foundation with a house falling down, but in that case we turned the people down because they would come in and say well, this is falling down.

N

We want to demolish what's there and we want to build this other house and in this case we're not building another house. We're we're you know.

L

We're trying to it's very much in keeping with the house what was that.

N

And it's tough, I I it's a tough decision and.

L

Then my other comment is: I agree with uh john's comment about the the now very limited natural leftover grass and uh space so that I, that that is definitely a concern for me and um is 10 feet enough if you have to get an emergency vehicle like a fire engine in to get to that middle garage, that's.

P

Right, yes, yeah, it is okay,.

L

C

They'll, probably just pull the hoses in anyway.

N

I'm only laughing because the garage next to my house burned down last year and.

P

L

N

Trucks were all out in the street, they had long hoses.

F

Yeah: okay, okay, you.

C

Know I I think you guys were in about this house unless a minute six, eight nine months ago, that's.

N

C

Yeah, initially, and um and obviously now have it expanded on your plans, and whatever I mean, I don't disagree with a lot of your comments about the feasibility of potentially jacking the house up, um and I also think that the house that the the existing front of the house is a little bit of a an architectural abortion, excuse my language um from the standpoint of what it actually looks like historic or not, but the.

C

But the one thing that I would just caution you about in my opinion, is that you make every effort possible, and I don't know if it is possible to not make the thing. Look brand spanking new, and I don't know how exactly how you do that. But I think there is a danger that, because it is in essence a new house, albeit copying a lot of the architectural features of the existing, that it could, it could impose itself on the neighborhood as a whole. Just because it is too new-looking.

C

Does that make any sense to you.

N

uh Yeah, I think it does, and I and I think, like over the years, we've sort of looked at that brian brian was right on the money it's like. If you can reuse as many like, like the stones and the materials one of the I won't call it tricks of the trade, is new houses, seldom do the level of trim. That's on the historic house, and that was always the issue always been an issue in the historic district. It's like if these.

N

If these corner boards are six inches and they're actually six inches, then we want to put in six inch corner boards, not five and a half inch uh five quarter by six stock. So that's the importance of us measuring all the trim.

N

D

N

And I you know, I think I mean we might even end up putting the wood gutters on not covering them up, not using them just to get that exact shape. um You know things look new when you sort of take shortcuts in the trim and how you add gutters and things like that.

N

uh It is to really understand how every board was how thick it was, and to put that back, uh we may think, through from your comment where we said the hardy board clapboards, now that you mentioned that they might look a little smooth like a little too finished.

N

You can always tell a vinyl house when you drive by it almost from from a moving car. It's too clean years ago, we found out that actually the wood grain clapboards looked better because they got dirty, you know and that you had a variation of things. So uh we'll we'll take a look at that, because I know there's another product that we might consider yeah.

C

I mean, I think I think the fact that that that you have inserted the garage into the center of the the property um is is a big improvement so that you're not assaulted, by garage doors from either of the two streets, which would be a way you have garage doors uh facing uh gravel street now, but I think that's an improvement. I will tell you that um personally, I'm not crazy about the view from pearl street in the house um yeah, I I just it. The house.

F

Is better looking.

C

From the from the other side than it is from pearl street, I mean the big portion, the and the the stair up. Well, I guess I guess it. I guess it looks too much like the back of the house.

N

I'm sorry, are you talking about the accessory dwelling or the.

C

Yes or the accessory dwelling all.

N

C

All right, I don't think.

L

I'd agree with that: it's a.

C

Great straight street view.

N

Gee, either as a client.

N

We'll work we'll work on that.

C

Okay, because it it.

N

But you have that the difficulty is it's that you know the grades five feet and the first floor is 12 feet. You know and 12 minus five seven feet: how do you get people up there? uh You.

D

N

In a way, well,.

D

We didn't want to.

A

N

All the landscaping like we did on on gravel street, uh because the stepping up on gravel street is not, unlike some of the other houses on gravel street, uh how their front yards are, but pearl street everything's pretty much low and level.

C

um But but you are, you are forced to be up in the air anyway, I mean, I think you did a great job of stepping up stepping up from uh from gravel street, but in the back um of a pearl I mean you're going to be higher than the street. The house is next to you, no matter what you do.

N

Exactly and you know.

C

I'm just not sure that the stair going up to the expansive deck- um I don't know I take another look at that. Yeah.

N

We will yeah no thank you. Yeah.

L

And I do sympathize with the owners having the cars turn around and I, like the gate better than the sawha horse option a little bit further down the street.

D

H

This isn't in our purview, but I'm just curious. I couldn't see the fine print. What's the current square footage and what's the new square footage.

N

H

I just can't read that.

N

um Existing floor area this you know it's footprint, uh 3 400 to 5, 000., basically double, uh but I think well, there's uh accessory dwelling is adding a thousand of that more than a thousand and the garage went from 500 to 980.

N

House is not much different. The house went from 1700 to 2000. Basically, the house only got about 300 square feet. We added a back porch, which hadn't been there right. That's.

L

One of the few houses a few- I think it's the only lot really on pearl street, that didn't have a back house.

N

Oh you're, right, yeah, so and and the breezeway is 400 square feet so wow. You know, who's got 5 000 square foot house, but it's a lot of little different pieces, not not so much. The main house actually is not much different in size.

L

In many of the houses that those lots are split right down the middle and there's a full-size house on both one on pearl, one on gravel, so.

D

Right right, this.

L

Is a lot less for on the pearls side, because it's accessory yeah.

N

I mean in the long run houses in pearl street might get raised. I mean just the reality of more and more that storm floods coming through.

O

There's one right across the street, the yellow house.

G

O

um That's that looks like that looks raised to me. It's got the porch, that's that's. I mean a good five or six feet off the off-grid.

N

uh That might been built after flood standards that was actually built. Oh no. What was it? No? No take it back. No.

L

Those three houses on pearl that were put on that old community center. A lot are all new and they're.

O

L

Pretty high yeah, but some of the old town I mean my house- is up. The main floor is way up from.

I

L

I have like five or six steps up to my main level: entry.

C

Any any other comments from the commission. No, obviously we're gonna we're gonna go through this. You know again when they come back for a public hearing.

N

Could could we schedule a public hearing, you think or.

C

That's really your choice bill. It depends how what your level of confidence is in terms of what you presented thus far in the comments, um but that's that's totally your discretion.

L

The next one, two weeks.

N

Yeah, I mean that's what we'd prefer to do to get to this the point they could actually build in good weather.

O

So can you can I just get a uh to just an idea of the process for for those commission members that are not in attendance? Does this come back and does anything get like published with other with other comments, or things like that that are proposed? You know, after this uh or pre-application hearing.

C

No, in essence, what is that dan speaking yeah.

N

Yeah yep sorry.

C

um Yeah, in essence, what happens? Is you come in for a preliminary like this? You get a certain amount of input from the commission, um none of it wholly dispositive in any respect or indicative of how they any of the members may or may not vote on the final application. um This is a hearing at which almost all the members are here, which is a good thing, because you know attendance tends to vary a little bit, but in essence what happens if the next?

C

The next meeting you come back, which, with based on the comments you've heard and your own feelings about the good and the bad and the things you may or may not want to change, you can come back for a public hearing at which point um bill and uh and um and brian will have to go through the same presentation as though they had not presented anything to date.

C

Okay, as far as establishing a record, so this this hearing or this meeting, doesn't establish any kind of a record of any kind whatsoever with regard to the final approval. So um you come, you come in, it's like a case lenovo and, um and you make your presentation and then um there would be additional comments and and then it would be put to a vote.

O

Okay, thank you.

N

I mean the only the only piece that maybe would be new is how we handled the porch on pearl street yeah.

L

And new windows.

L

There's a lot of comment about the amount of you know: hardscape, maybe.

D

You look at that.

L

H

Yeah, have you talked to your neighbors? Damn.

O

um Yeah, I'm here um not, uh let me just not get started. Video uh yeah, the neighbors uh directly to the south. The rodriguez is um next door to them. uh I guess his name is travis to my to my to the north uh he's. Never there he's there.

O

You know a week or two per year, um but ironically, um when I was taking a lot of brush out, because I don't know, if you guys remember the pictures I showed whatever it was eight months ago, where all that brush that you know I cleared out- and um you know he sort of immediately. You know called me with his landscape when he said hey, you know. Can I just like put up?

O

You know arborvities and some stuff like right there, because we like our privacy and whatever so so that sends a little message with respect to that that fence area on that side um and then the neighbors uh you know june and brian across the way were, were more than happy. You know he's up there he's like. Oh, we can go to the porch all right, I'm like all right, slow down. Brian.

O

So uh yeah I mean for for the people that I've talked to it's been full support. You know I haven't shown them drawings and gone into all. That just say: hey, listen! Here's! What we're talking about like yeah yeah! Absolutely! You know. So I think you know look if it's an improvement for the neighbors. You know they're not going to uh they're not going to be against it. From my perspective,.

C

D

I think they are.

C

They can come to the hearing.

O

Yeah, that's right! That's right! That's right!.

N

How do we apply for the hearing? Usually we do it right at the meetings.

C

You you've got to fill out your application. You know you haven't filled out an application yet so you fill out the application bill and then you, um you basically have to provide all of your exhibits and everything you can talk to linda about that or to um um sorry.

A

C

Tom santorini yeah, he is the one who sort of oversees this this um submission of information um and and you can get the deadline so when you've got to have it in. But you you know it's not like when you used to be able to bring it to the meeting. Well,.

N

I know it's going to happen pretty quick because of their public notices and all.

C

That's right, I think, linda it's thursday morning.

N

Might might be yeah this thursday.

C

N

That's why we would make them out at the meeting itself. That's why well we'll talk we'll talk to our our dan here, you know see how he wants. Oh, we should proceed.

C

Yeah I mean it's, it's it's a fair amount to assimilate in a couple of days. Yeah! So again, that's that's on you yeah. You want to approach it yeah. Okay, any other comments, questions.

C

Okay, then we'll move along, I think the next. um The next one is the um mystic museum of art is here, and I have to recuse myself from this one. um So don you want to take over.

C

Okay, the next most senior member of the commission.

K

Unless bonnie wants a shot.

L

C

That's okay, you do it done yeah. She skipped she skipped some years, so we don't know where she is in terms of seniority.

A

We have a hand raised in the audience: okay, paige.

Q

Hi, can you hear me?

Q

Yes, yeah, okay, um my husband and I are both architects and we bought a house and mystic recently and we have been talking with linda galletta and bruce lofgren, and we are here for a preliminary discussion of our project and I we're novices so we're not quite sure how we, if this is the right time to speak, it's a pretty simple presentation. It will take very little time compared to the one we just witnessed. Yeah.

C

That that was a long one uh paige I mean I just don't know. I don't know who was up first, but I noticed when I joined at museum people already they were up on the screen. So if you wouldn't mind, I think we really should go to them. First, oh.

Q

Please do we just didn't know how one raises a hand and when so, we're very happy to wait all.

C

Right, well, I'm glad you did raise your hand, because now we know you're waiting patiently. Thank.

I

J

R

Yeah good evening, my name is greg. Fettis with fedex engineering, mystic, connecticut, professional engineer licensed in the state of connecticut, representing the mystic museum of art and with us tonight is susan fisher and rodolfo reyes.

R

And I'm going to share my screen, but what we're proposing is a parking automation system um and the bulk of the project is the reconfiguration of kind of the entrance to the parking lot off of water street. So if I can share my screen, I will.

R

So this is the entire parking lot, so this dashed rectangle is the area of kind of kind of what's visible directly from water street. I know I think, historically, the parking lot itself was considered. Public and kind of anything that happens in there gets gets viewed can be viewed by the by the public. So but the bulk of the work is in this rectangle. So when we have a blow up on page two, which I'm going to flip to.

R

uh So we're actually uh it's water street to the top of the screen. Here, uh the sidewalk, the long water street is going to remain, as is, we are widening the entrance approximately two feet to make it 24 feet wide, which is kind of the standard, two-way aisle width, um which will help a little bit with uh emergency vehicles getting in and out uh we're removing the kiosk uh that's currently there um and I'm gonna blow this up just a little bit more um so that kiosk is shown here.

R

The kind of oddly shaped island and kind of uh not from a traffic standpoint, circulation standpoint, it's kind of at an odd angle, and you can tell that by the number of times the the kiosk has been hit um and more recently a couple times, um but that kiosk is getting removed and it's going to be placed over by the existing restroom and police station building um and we're gonna.

R

You know it's a nice looking little kiosk uh we're gonna use it for storage. uh uh You know the the lot full sign, um maybe some uh traffic cones and so forth, so they can just be placed in there and then just brought out um when the lot is full.

R

So what we're proposing is a small two foot wide island which will allow 11 foot clear on both sides uh for in and out gates exit gate entrance gate.

R

The little kiosks where you would put your, I guess you grab it. You grab a card here as you do today.

R

uh Everything kind of got straightened out so you're you're, pulling straight in you're, not making kind of an odd turn to get to the to get to the kiosk um and you're continuing uh once you get your ticket, the kia or the gate will open you'll come to a stop sign uh you'll, be able to make a left or a right a right to go to the south entrance and the left to go to the um what should be across and to the left and then you'd have to make a right.

R

uh One of the big changes um that we have is that two-way aisle way will become uh one way. uh One would be an exit and the other one would be a straight through to the south parking lot or a left turn to return back to the main parking lot.

R

So those are the the big changes um to the circulation, probably people that have used this uh when you're.

R

Currently, you get a left-hand maneuver coming out of the south parking lot trying to get to the kiosk, and you can see the kiosk is one: it's not perpendicular, so you're kinda and then you're trying to merge to traffic, which is the main the main traffic is coming in the exit only lane um to get to that kiosk. Currently, so you get a car parked across here you get cars coming in, trying to make a left and- and we've had uh some serious gridlock in that uh in that area.

R

So, since we're doing the automation, we decided to try to fix this this intersection and make it work a little bit better.

R

Let me zoom out a little just just one thing also we're we're. We are moving. This curb line over about two feet, uh see that's a landscape island with the sign and so forth. None of that's changing uh there will be just a little bit of, and I have a picture on the last sheet, a little bit of landscaping that will come out of here to put in the new curbing and the new pavement again, it's only two feet or less so that'll.

R

Just get replanted in the existing island and I'll show a picture of that on the next sheet.

R

Let's go right to that since we're kind of talking, so this is the existing island.

R

Again so this there's a mixture of stone and and curbing along here, that'll get replaced with the curbing for the entire length and again it'll just widen it by approximately two feet or less so any landscaping right on that edge.

R

We'll just get dug up and shift it over uh just enough to fit within the curbing um and if there's not enough room for something it'll get placed somewhere in that island, and we have a note to that effect both on the site plan as well as this detail.

R

So kind of, if you've been to, I don't know where they all are, but I know I've seen them in west hartford um little pay at the kiosk thing. So you take your your ticket, you put it in there, you pay there, you get in your car, you drive out a camera, recognizes your license plate and says that you paid and the gate goes up and you leave the facility.

R

So that pay at the kiosk.

R

Is going to be located, there's going to be one located here, uh which is uh basically right, adjacent, so you're either come walking from water street or walking. uh Maybe the back of pizza or sift uh you pay at the kiosk uh and you go to your car there's also another one uh located.

R

um Let me just flip to that route right here. Yeah there's another pay at the kiosk located at the other end of the uh the other end of the parking area. Parking lot.

R

So that's what uh that'll look like it'll be uh gray um and then, additionally, uh the gate access are shown here, they're straight arms, so they go up uh not blocking. Originally, we had an articulating one. uh This allows a full height for uh emergency vehicles,.

R

uh The islands are just going to be uh concrete and concrete. Curbing um there'll be no plantings. One. The one island in the front with gates is only two feet wide, so really not uh would not condone any kind of landscaping.

R

The other island.

R

This is a going to be a concrete island, so the shape of it is uh it's pretty narrow at the end, but it's basically there to one keep people from making a left to go, leave and then to kind of direct people coming from the the exit only lane to get through.

R

That's also going to have mountable curbing for emergency vehicles. uh The rest of this is striping.

R

We chose to kind of leave the existing sidewalk in place kind of filth, funnel traffic within the non-striped areas, but if an emergency vehicle had to come in, they could uh they'd have a little bit more room to to make the turn. uh Similarly, on the exit, only uh we're leaving the existing curb, leaving the existing sidewalk and we'll just be striping a portion of this, so emergency vehicles again will have more room to get out and additionally, we are widening here which will help um because right now, I believe it's 22 ish feet wide.

K

What's the uh the dark hatches uh if you go back to the previous.

R

So this shaded area is the area we are expanding. The existing bituminous, concrete uh pavement, uh it's just shaded- to show that's kind of what we're doing.

K

Yeah but further, if you go further down that the dark.

L

I think it's a crosswalk this.

R

Is a crosswalk coming, I think, there's one there now, but we'll be re-striping. That basically gets you from. I guess it's the pizza corner um across over. To basically does that now get you to this hatched fire lane area, which would then get you to the front entrance of the uh mystic museum of art.

K

If somebody's coming from the left, how did they get out.

R

At the circle, oh, they would.

K

R

I'm going to show you here that I'm gonna go to the overall one, but they would come here to a stop sign. They would make a right um and then.

R

They'd make a right here and then swing around and exit. This way you can follow my cursor.

R

You know we we've looked at many different scenarios uh currently now you can just make a left, it's an awkward left and it causes gridlock, um and you know people aren't always letting people in uh you get a couple cars here and all of a sudden.

R

You know you got a car parked across here and then you got cars backing up coming in that's the problem we've had so we looked at many different scenarios to try to control traffic, um and uh you know most people tend to go to this area to park, uh but you obviously when this gets full people do come over here, a little bit of a learning curve. um But it's it's not that bad of a new maneuver you'd come in you'd, stop you'd, make a right, you'd make a left and you you'd come to this.

R

Stop sign and you'd circle back around and exit.

K

Any of the other commission members have any questions.

H

This is a I know, uh there's gonna for from a learning curve point of view, there's gonna be obviously a lot of signage, that's going to be needed, but I was just curious. What's a stop bar correct.

R

It's just the white, the white bar you see at stop signs on roadways. It's just a painted painted stripe. Typically, 24 inches you just it's a it's another thing that says: hey stop here: okay and right now it's pretty wide open through that whole area. There's not you know not a lot of traffic control um and that uh you know this.

R

This has been like a two-way main aisle way to get kind of to this parking area and and further to the you know whether to be I guess it would be the northeast, um but it also you know when when people aren't uh inhibited, I guess they tend to go a little faster, um so we think not only is it going to solve our gridlock problems, we're going to slow traffic down a little bit.

R

uh There's no reason to speed in a small parking lot like this, and I think that uh changing this portion of it to one way we'll eliminate some of the kind of speeding through here to get down to this other area.

K

Are you planning on uh painting the arrows on the pavement of the parking lot.

R

Oh, we, um you know some of them, we showed you know we're, definitely going to be painting the ones and painting in this area. um You know the other ones we're going to see where we need them, but uh this really was to show traffic patterns that there's two-way traffic through here. um I believe this was just changed to one-way traffic around here at some point in the recent future and that's helped.

R

I think they added some signage down here- we're not proposing to make any changes down in this area, as well as the south parking lot.

K

R

K

A list of your materials and everything it's you know.

R

Yeah, I think so really it's just the detail.

R

You know the details of uh the gates. um There was a request, we're gonna, add to the plan.

R

I'm just gonna show you so this is the camera we'll we're going to add that to that third sheet. Also, this shows it being mounted to like the ceiling of a parking garage.

R

Ours are going to be mounted on a um on a pole, because we don't have a garage or we don't have a wall per se, but basically.

R

And that you haven't, I haven't, this is going to be added to the plan. We'll show this camera on a pole and basically it's about 25 feet. I think from the back back of the car when it reads it at a certain angle: reads the license plate and, and then it allows the car to go through and says that it's paid.

K

Any additional lighting going up or anything.

R

uh There's not any additional lighting um there, susan. You can confirm that that I don't we didn't talk about any additional lighting.

I

We're talking about that as part of a separate project, okay, but the lighting for this for the what you're referring to is the license plate recognition system there's a lot of light that comes from the street level back through the entrance to the parking area.

K

Okay, anybody else have any other questions.

H

I mean again, I just old habits die hard here in mystic and um I would just really strongly encourage on that new keep going up.

H

Right by the crosswalk.

H

So if you go to now go down down and up to the right just on that stripe area,.

F

H

Really encourage signage to say, do not enter.

R

Yeah, so we have a proposed: do not enter sign here: okay, okay, um so yeah we do have some. uh You know, stop sign eggs that only sign uh proposed exit. Only lane sign- um and I think it's gonna be. I wanna say it's a little bit of a learning curve.

R

You know we're gonna, get this thing up and running like I'd like to say, it'd be perfect, but you know it's going to be a little bit of a learning curve and I think we're going to you know made out the tweak an arrow or a sign here or there, but we tried to get. You know the fire lane signs were asked for by the uh by the fire department. um Let me see we have yeah, so we have a stop bar sign here. Another do not enter sign here. Coming back.

R

This way um right turn on me, uh which is here, stop and right turn only at this point, so we tried to cover most of the bases. But again uh you know we're.

R

You know this is. This is a big change for the parking lot in downtown mystic and uh we.

L

R

Going to be much better, I.

L

Think it looks a lot better.

R

H

You I just worry about rodolfo losing two feet of plant area. That's my only.

R

I'm sure he'll find another area.

S

I just wanted to say that you know, after standing there for six years, walking up and down this parking lot um and working on this with multiple people. This is a safer solution. uh You got a lot of crazy things happening in the summer and this is definitely going to prevent the headaches for a lot of people.

K

Okay, so have you filed your application? Are you going to file it? I'm.

R

Going to file it tomorrow.

K

L

Yep all right, we'll see you in a couple weeks.

R

Excellent. Thank you. Thank you guys.

C

You're you're you're welcome to continue with the next applicant. If you would like to.

L

Come on todd get back to work.

C

All right all right, um paige gulrick um you're on.

Q

Are you there? Yes thank you, so I'm I'm I'm going to try to share a screen. It's not something I'm doing often, but here we are very good. It worked.

Q

Yay I'm pleased mark is with me we're both architects with about 40 years of experience, each um young, not young people, moving to uh the area, we've fallen in love with mystic, and we bought this wonderful house that many of you may know it is right at the corner. I I don't know if my cursor works or not um yeah it is. You can.

H

Q

It okay, well, I'm not seeing it, but where there's a pink dot on the upper left, groton gis map, you can see that um our house is located at the corner of new london and high street, so we're thrilled to be within just a couple of blocks of town um and the house was built in 1809 and it is in an r-7 district and um it has had a lot of deferred maintenance and it's on a very open exposed site where there are um four stop signs at the intersection, that's just in front of or just northeast of the property.

Q

um This is just to orient you and I'm going to come back to this drawing in a moment, but just to see that you know where we are and to familiarize all of you with the property. This is the inner. So are you seeing my cursor now yeah? Okay, so this is the intersection of high street running north and south and new london, and it drops steeply down the hill and ends up near the property. We were just talking about and we're just one block south of the baptist church.

Q

So you, you may have seen this it's a it's a large, uh very simple, colonial home, with an addition that was done not long after the original home in 1809 for edward packer who's, the son of the famous daniel packer so, um and it's quite open and exposed for some reason.

Q

There's very there's one tree on the site that the previous owner planted and a few eyebrow arborvitae at one edge, but it's very open and a bit raw, and these are um historic photos that we were able to get from the seaport museum and they showed this is the house here on the upper left and the house is actually on the street.

Q

There is a three foot wide patch of earth where we'd like to do a little planting, but that belongs to the town. We just want to do that to buffer it, but the facade is on the street. So, as you can see not long after it was built, there was a fence foot that ran into the north edge of the house here and the south edge of the house here, and then it comes along and really enclosed.

Q

The entire property right on the property line, making it a little bit less public, there's a lot of parking. There are five cars that park just north of the site right now, um and so I'm going to continue on to the next. I actually I'll go back for a moment and just tell you a quick summary of what we'd like to do.

Q

We really see ourselves as custodians of this house, it's a wonderful old house with fantastic bones and it has almost a shaker feeling and that it's very simple and honest and straightforward inside and we we. We love the simplicity of the house, there's not a great deal of ornament and it's it's um beautifully built, but in need of lots of tlc.

Q

One of the major issues that we've encountered is that there's no sheathing on the house and I have been practicing and doing single family homes for 35 years and I've never heard of a house with no sheathing.

Q

So the clabboard was so substantial that it actually was laterally tying the post and beam structure together and when we removed one cabinet that had been added inside in a corner. That was not of the period we looked out to the street from the bedroom, and I thought oh hello, there's there's the pavement right there. It was a little shocking, so it and the house is not insulated.

Q

So our first issue is really to re-clad the house and we'd like to do it in a cedar cloud bird. So it's very much in keeping with. What's there and we'd like to stain that clabber, we we have a color in mind and we'd like to um as as one often sees with architecture of this sword and some images I'll share with you that it is um all one color so we'd like to make the trim and the um window mullions and the frames everything all one color, very sort of subtle and quiet.

Q

We have a few minor door and window changes to make the house when the edition was made. They added some doors. The house has five entry doors and it's it's a little bit much and some of them as we'll see when I show you, the exterior elevations, are oddly placed and and um a little bit chaotic and we'd like to simplify the facade, making some areas just more improving the proportions and going back to what might have been built there.

Q

Had it not been joining of two structures, the way it was done, um we would like to relocate the driveway. We now have five cars that park here along the north and the driveway as you'll see in one of our facade. Photos comes right up in front of the house. This is the existing drive here and it's a gravel drive and we'd like to shift it away from the front of the house to soften this area a bit.

Q

The next area is that we would like to add a garage or barn, and if I go back to the previous image, you'll see that they had a barn similar in scale to what we'd like to do. But it was parallel to the house and we'd like to make it perpendicular to the north. In this location, here with the footprint running parallel to the main house and just north of the addition in order to buffer this a little bit because there's a great deal of traffic on this road.

Q

Unfortunately, because there was so much construction up by the corner on the baptist church traffic diverted for a long time to new london, and I think a lot of people still take that path. So it's it's pretty busy out.

G

Here and they don't necessarily stop you.

Q

Know they don't stop at the stop signs which we we don't have small children right now we could have grandchildren here in you know a decade or so, but we just we wish we could get people to stop at the stop signs. I'm sure that's a village-wide issue um just to go back to my list for a moment. The other issues are. um We would like to put solar panels on the south facing. So this is the existing l-shaped house, which is about 1400 square feet.

Q

The site um is 16 000 square feet just under 0.48 of an acre and the garage. We're proposing has a roof of 1200 square feet, but there's an opening through it to soften it and to create views of a garden in here. So it's 900 square feet enclosed and um we have sort of carriage house type doors here and we're also going to be planting something either a hedge or more arborvitae or something along here to soften it and screen it.

Q

Even though the garage will have nice carriage house doors we'd like to buffer this a little bit here, so we don't see so much parking and so that it doesn't feel like a big garage at that edge. I think the only other point there. Sorry I meant to read this- is that we'd like to add a stone wall? We actually worry a little bit about someone driving into the house. um It's very strange.

Q

I I have moved here after three decades in new york and I stand in the kitchen and someone walks by and they are about 15 inches from me and they'll stop and have a conversation and several times I thought someone was in the house and one day the ups truck parked out just outside the kitchen, and it was literally about 18 inches from the house, and I walked into the kitchen, and I thought why is it so dark in here?

Q

And it's it's a very strange thing, even though I'm somewhat urban I've never lived this close, it's it's it's a bit jarring too, and we've studied the sanborn maps and we, you know we're both architects and urban designers and very interested in the fabric of a town. We care deeply about all of the issues about community and there are only a couple of other houses where actually the street is here and, interestingly enough, if you look at these photos, we thought well.

Q

The street must have gotten wider, but this the cow path or carriage path was actually right at the street originally, which is a bit unusual. I think so just to take you through the next steps. This is the existing condition of the house.

Q

It has had a great deal of deferred maintenance, um just for example, um I don't know if I can zoom in for everyone here, but at this point on the house, the boards are very bowed and we believe that clapboard was redone at some point and there are areas where it was patched, but this is where I can see out to the street from in here.

Q

We've just done some interior plaster work, we're being cautious about how much we're doing, because we know that there's a lot to do when we re-clad. So so we love the bones. um I will share the few window and door changes that we'd like to make which are minor. um This is looking at the um east facade of the main house and the north wing, and these are three of the five entry doors.

Q

um The house actually has a small apartment up here, so it's actually 51 53 high street and we will keep this entrance. But this one is a little peculiar and the facade is a bit unfortunate. So we'd like to put a double hung window single pane, we'll do wood storm windows because we love the single pane.

Q

Even though we know that there's a great deal of infiltration, they're, just beautiful and the sight lines are so narrow and precious that we'll put in another window to match the existing, and we want to add one more window which we'll take from another facade of the house on the um side of the house. That face is sort of inward. That's a bit more protected facing the the yard at the west.

Q

We would like to to you, reuse these two windows on other parts of the house and put in a there's already a door here, we'd like to put we're just going to shift it and put in more windows. This is not very visible from the street.

Q

You get a glimpse of it for a moment if you're coming down from the hill coming down the hill on new london, but that will be blocked if we build the garage and and we'd like to build a little porch out here, because this is the door to nowhere right now. This is the break your leg door. If you step out here, um this is just a bit about. We are thinking of a dark, gray color, and these are just some precedence.

Q

This house looks very much like ours from the south and these are all colonial style homes that we found engaging and we'd like. Some of these are a bit darker but we'd like to go sort of a charcoal gray on all of the elements of the house and then I'm sort of running through this, because I don't. This is our first preliminary meeting and I don't want to take too much of your time.

Q

But this is a picture of the house and the same view if we were to build this three-car garage, that's the length of a four-car garage, but with a big opening. So the garden is connected to the front and and we'll have a potting shed and do things out here to soften it. um And then this is a view from the. If you were flying in a little helicopter or something we got these two views from the real estate agent.

Q

We we just bought the house in september, but if you were coming down new london, I guess in a helicopter it would look like this or a drone, and this is that view with the garage here and a bit of a elevated porch, um pretty small and not not far above grade. It's just three steps above grade we have spoken with, and I have met with several times country carpenters up in hebron, connecticut about doing a post and beam structure.

Q

That's very much in keeping with the style of the house, and this is a three-car garage with a walkway through it an open bay and that's not exactly but very much just the direction we would like to pursue and then there'll be a lot of plantings to soften and screen this, and we have a carriage house door that has applied wood members on it to soften that a bit, and these are the types of low stone walls that we've seen in the area that we really like that are appear to be dried, laid, but have a little bit wet laid material inside just to keep them from toppling over.

Q

That would only be 18 or 20 inches tall and quite narrow.

Q

We would like to consider putting and I'm going to go right back to the first view, solar panels on the south side of the garage roof, we're just trying to cut energy consumption as much as possible. We feel in our profession. It's essential to be responsible and do that, and that would be the least visible area. We would not do that to a to a building of this area.

Q

Again, we feel like the custodians or caretakers of this building that will long outlive us and we feel it's not appropriate to put them on the house, so we would propose that we put them on the south-facing part of the garage. um So I've done a lot of talking mark. Do you want to add.

G

No, it's all good yeah.

Q

So again, this is, we've only been in the area for a few months. This is what we do in love all day, and now we have an opportunity to do it here and we'd like to get a sense from you of of your feelings, about what we're proposing and thank you.

M

Thank you. So I want to say personally I'm a very I'm very impressed by your presentation. um I live in a 1740 colonial, so I uh a lot of your comments of lack of insulation and such really hit home. um You guys have done your research. The historical pictures show the fence you want to put up. um You know the barn there's a historical tie in there. um You know something I put solar in my house I put on the well.

M

The garage was built in the 1940s for the same reason, and you said a word that really hit homes that you're stewards of that house. It's kind of the word I use my house, we just kind of preserve them for the next generation. So personally, I'm a big fan of everything you uh you um propose tonight.

L

G

We thought we might call a garage eti.

Q

And we were tempted to call it the epi because we loved the dpi- and this is edward captain edward packer's house- and he was daniel, packer's son. So that's a bit of trivia but we're we're so moved by this and we we both tend to do things that are not quite as traditional in our own professions and we learn from the house every day. So it's a great privilege to to have this house.

G

We were shocked when we found this no sheep.

Q

We never even heard of a house without cheating before.

K

Have you looked into uh solar.

K

G

To yeah we're still researching that um it's interesting there's a lot of panels out there. We we think the aesthetics is important, so we might sacrifice um efficiency for aesthetics, but we're still in the process of researching. What's out there. We know that we've I'm doing a number of passive houses right now and know that the technology is of really aesthetic. Shingles is really not there yet tesla's, not there. Yet, even though they've been talking about for a number of years, so we're still researching that.

Q

And mark is working with a company, that's doing solar shingles and has completed a couple of buildings and groton. He was practicing in milwaukee for many years and he he has worked with them and they're in the forefront of doing solar shingles, and they do have a track record because some of their buildings locally here have been up for a while now, but we're still being a little cautious about whether or not they've they've solved all the problems.

L

I I agree with john. I think you've done a very nice job. The only thing I didn't particularly care for was those four windows on the west side in a row together. Next to that move door, but you don't. You said you don't see it so much from the really.

G

Q

The garage is here: I think that, because they're right here, um you won't see them in an area as the house is a little dark and because we're thinking of this, because the house is so public because there's no landscaping, we thought- maybe we would make this feel a little more private in here, provide a bit of a view to it. But that's so linear and you come down here. We think there's no chance that you're going to see it. This is a huge row of arborvitae.

L

Can you put in some like double french doors or something well.

G

We're thinking about putting our kitchen in that spot, so that's.

Q

Why so those are we'll put in one french door, true divided, but but above that, there's a counter below it. So that's where there will be um either double hung or casement that look just like the double hung, with the same division and proportion.

C

They're sitting on top of the counter, basically.

L

Yes, I just don't like the four in a row. It just doesn't appeal to me, but yeah.

H

That was my only comment on the whole presentation. Everything else was spot on and beautiful, but the four in a row just looked funky.

Q

Well, we'll look at that and it's possible that we might have just three and we might let allow some facade between them, so they feel more. So it's not entirely new, but it's more in keeping with what's here, yeah.

G

It's it's interesting. You live in a house like this. Every every window is a punched window, and but here we have an opportunity to kind of look out onto this landscape. So it's interesting yeah.

C

And I I really, I really don't think it'll be all that noticeable. You.

L

Also should know that it'd be fine. I just thought I don't pretend.

C

And we have no jurisdiction over the color of your house, so you can do whatever you want.

G

We I I lived. I went to high school in boston, north of boston and topsfield and there's the parson cape in house, which was kind of that witch house.

Q

And was it gray, it.

G

Was very great.

Q

Well, we will not have a witch house.

C

And, of course, obviously, we'd like to see an elevation from um you know from the is that new, london road just of the garage doors and the you know the cut out. Yes, you know just something a little bit more realistic. I think I think it'll be fine, and you know I've driven by that house ten thousand times and um I've always thought it was a little odd and I always thought the yard just looked well quite vacant.

G

Hoping the garage will really define the exteriors of this space in a way that it doesn't define it all. Today, yeah.

Q

And we not only like plantings out, you know, buffering this area. This is not shown on our site by any means, but also some plantings in here to soften it and to to really feel you know. We wondered. Why do other properties have some nice mature plantings? Why are there no trees on our property really at all it feels so vacant, and- and so we hope to um in our initial um drawing we also talked about. I didn't mention landscape. I've.

J

Q

Lost a tree, there were six birch trees out here, and we just think softening this and making it welcoming and making the landscape more gentle and less bear than it is will be very welcome at that intersection yeah. I agree.

L

Maybe it's rocky and it doesn't grow well. It could.

G

Be it could be.

Q

Could be yeah there's.

G

A part of the house has a crawl space underneath I think they hit rock yeah.

Q

The house has some point full basement only in a limited area. So so is there anything you would recommend we we so appreciate your comments. We would like to definitely be on the agenda. We we hope to. um We don't dare pull the plug on getting the garage going until we know that we have approval on it and we'd love to build it in the spring, but we won't proceed until we know both from the historic district and the zoning board that everything is approved.

Q

So so we would like to be on the agenda in two weeks and we're not quite sure what we do now to officially do so.

C

Well, you you, um you have to fill out an application and you and you've got to file that application um with the town no later than thursday morning. I believe to be on the internet.

C

And you've got to submit all of your exhibits. I mean you'd have to talk to tom santorini, um yes, who oversees it in terms of the exact timing on the exhibits. I think it's because we have a little bit more time than we used to have, but not too much so because everything's got to be published for public view um prior to the meeting, and it's some days prior I mean the actual newspaper notice goes out, uh gets placed.

C

I guess they're filed in on next on this coming thursday, so you've got to have all that you want to have. um I think you've got pretty much pretty much all the photographs you're going to need. Maybe a photograph or two of some of you are budding the budding property owners and the streetscape.

C

So I would include that and then you would need a a list of any and all materials that you're going to use and if there are any um replacement windows we need the specs on those windows um each and the in the architectural cuts, and that kind of thing and- uh and you know the type of siding that you're going to use. I guess you're going to use a clabbered cedar cladboard um if it's, if it's identical in terms of interest to the weather or whatever you can just state that on your plan.

C

um So we know what the the spacing is, and I assume what you're going to do is you're going to strip all the existing collaborate off and sheave the house and then put those.

Q

Yes, we'll insulate we'll strip it off. We will insulate between the post and beam, hoping that a lot of the interior plaster survives this process and um then sheath and membrane and and cedar clubber.

G

It's interesting the clapboard. Now it's it varies from four inch to five and a half inches. Then we're gonna go four inch exposure. I think everywhere.

C

It's just so it's all, it's all the same, and I guess are you gonna you plan to use fiberglass bats. Are you gonna foam it or what are you going to do.

Q

Probably rock wool, because.

C

Q

Rock wool is good for moisture fire acoustics, um probably rock wool, not.

G

A big fan of foam yeah.

Q

We we are forced to use foam as professionals.

Q

You know, there's some we're having to build new buildings and renovate in a way, that's so tight that you make a building, so it can't breathe, and then you have to put in a system so that when you have the doors and windows closed, you get some air in, so people don't suffocate in the houses. And although we have to comply with that in many ways, we like a house that breathes quite frankly.

G

It's important that the wood breeze and I think that's why it failed. They just couldn't breathe.

Q

And would you suggest we add in addition to what you've recommended, which is very helpful, should we should we show all exterior elevations with two buildings yeah.

D

C

Of them, okay and the new.

F

Q

Wonderful, do you have any other questions? No.

G

I think we're good.

Q

Thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it well.

C

Thank you. That's a very, very good president and.

Q

We look forward to meeting all of you at some point.

C

D

Our own project.

Q

We're just committed to the area, so thank.

C

You and not on a video screen, you mean.

G

No no one day, maybe some day.

C

We used to meet in person, it was so long ago. I don't believe it.

Q

Thank you again.

H

C

So anyone else peter should we leave yeah, you can leave, you can stick around if you want um are. We is that all the potential free apps we've got peter. I.

A

Don't see anyone else out there now.

L

And I thought this was going to be a quick meeting. Yeah.

C

Okay, any public communications. I hope.

L

A

Nope, nothing to report.

C

All right approval of the minutes actually.

M

I don't know if this sorry todd this was in public communications. uh Alice foley reached out to me is that new business or public communications.

A

The business okay, I'll hold off.

C

Okay, um all right so uh can I have a motion to approve the minutes of january.

C

Okay, we'll take a roll call, uh don proof. Bonnie, yes bill, yes, uh todd, yes and john. Are you.

I

C

Yeah. Okay, that's right! You said it for sarah, okay, old business and the old business, no new business.

C

I guess we'll hold off on election of the officers as we are want to do, and uh you have something you want to bring up john.

M

Yeah so um alice foley on seven park place reached out to myself and council person westerbelt. um She feels like there's a lot of encroachment on town right away property by her neighbors with no permits that falls under our purview. I know.

L

I brought this up about. I don't know whatever two months ago, because she called me and I told her- that it isn't the purview of the historic district.

D

L

M

Know the council did discuss.

L

It it is part of the town council's purview.

C

Yeah that we did discuss that before. Okay, all right. Thank you, john any other new business.

A

uh The only other issues next month, we are next month. The next meeting, where you're gonna have uh remember the chain, link fence issue that came up at the beginning of january. We brought it for discussion.

C

A

That's gonna be coming back, so uh the neighbor wants to she's submitting a couple pictures showing it from the road that shows that it is visible from the road, even even in the back fence, but tom's been out. He had a surgery he's been out of the office for two weeks, so I gotta get back to him and find out exactly what's where we're at with it. Okay, but how's her off on this meeting to go to the next meeting so she's to be coming in at the next meeting.

L

Hey I just wanted to mention also for new business. um All the pearl street fence issue came up. You know the house on pearl, I don't know if it's three or uh forget um it's a concrete stucco house that sold recently. They just put up a new and it's pvc uh fence and I don't believe they came to the commission. So I don't I don't know. Maybe somebody could look into whether they got a approval or not. Maybe I wasn't at a meeting.

A

You know the address. What was the address exactly? I.

L

Have to look it up and give it to you. I can't remember.

A

Okay, throw me an email I'll give you a call.

L

It's like probably five or something like that. It's it's a stucco house, two family. Okay, it's a single family, but sorta has it apart.

C

All right: well, we will.

L

C

Have the right address, I guess to investigate that right. Yeah.

L

I'll send it to everybody: okay,.

H

um Max brought up a good point earlier about the recording: how do we access this recording to the.

L

Town meetings and uh they have all the meetings logged in there, okay.

A

Yeah, it's on the town webpage time webpage. Okay, thank you.

L

Pretty easy, yeah.

J

Can you send that out, though, just to I don't have I don't know just to make it a little easier to us yeah.

A

Just right here, this webpage right here, grotonct.com.

H

M

The stucco house is eight pearl street by the way.

A

Thank you, john.

L

It's eight pearl.

A

And then you do search engine down here and go through and check out all the different meetings.

J

Okay, I'm just all my point was that uh I think that the one that was presented today probably needs another look before they uh come forth again. I don't know if they're planning on coming for the next meeting or not, but uh I just think it's a lot to take in all in one meeting and if we want to uh go through it with as much scrutiny is that we do as we do you know, for you know someone's fence going in for a project of that size.

J

I think it's worth uh everybody on the team taking a look ahead of time, not just uh seeing it during the meeting, not that that's what anyone does, but uh just want to make sure uh everybody gets the same. The same view.

A

Well, there's nothing saying you have to approve it that night.

H

No, but there was a lot.

L

It was like when todd presented the place on water street. It was a big presentation for a preliminary, and I get what you're saying max. I think, but just sending sarah and uh who's missing. Whoever was missing an.

C

L

Saying please, if you can take a look at the video of the preliminary.

J

L

Be a good idea.

J

K

J

K

Don't know, is there any way we can force people to break their presentations apart a little bit to make it. So it's not such a big chunk all at once.

C

Well, that wouldn't be the that wouldn't be the method of most historic district commissions, but but I do think it's incumbent on everyone, if, if they have a chance to go through the the presentation or the drawings before the meeting, I think it makes it I mean some of us can grab some of this stuff more easily than others. And- um and so you know, let's face it.

C

If you sit there and stare at some drawings for a while, you pick up a lot of things that you might not otherwise pick up, but I don't know about intentionally splitting up a presentation, because what what how are you splitting it up? You know.

L

No, I mean it just makes for a long thing, but I don't think you're splitting up it's a good idea.

J

No, I think I think uh you know the onus might be on us to uh kind of take the extra time for these bigger things, and I know for todd's presentation I was out. I think it was when my son was born um ma. You know I I've never spent a lot of time ahead of any of these meetings really digging through any of the material ahead of time.

J

Certainly, I've never seen a a recorded preliminary hearing of anything, but I think in some cases where there are significant pro projects that might be in our best interest to take.

A

C

What'd you say bonnie. I.

L

Think it's a good idea.

L

If anybody is coming as a new presentation, the member, the the panelists us, should get a copy just to make it easy for us, because we may not know if there was to go on the site and look any of the cases that come that had prelims. It might be good to have that included when they do their presentation.

L

It's more info on the project.

J

I just think that we should uh take the time to look at it ahead of time.

C

J

M

C

And- and I also think that you know we could do each other- only a service to this is after tonight, having seen that extended presentation, um as bonnie pointed out, probably a good idea to tell eric and um and sarah that they should that there was a big presentation and they should familiarize themselves with it. So because I think my guess is these guys are going to come back in two weeks.

H

Yeah, it sounds like they want to go on thursday, um have everything in by thursday for next the following two years.

C

You know a lot of people are, you know they get anxious to get going because they've got other approvals. They've got to get so um you know. Maybe we talked to tom and- and maybe tom uh could clue us in too, when he's got a big, a big number of exhibits for a particular project and maybe an email could go out and say you know you really gotta, take a good look at this one. It's pretty big!

C

A

Was the preliminary that came in where we didn't even know they were coming in with it.

D

A

They just came in tonight.

C

They showed up, we don't even get any advance notice, yeah. So.

L

Right yeah, so when you think it's going to be a five-minute meeting right.

H

One thing on the on the attendant.

L

My dinner's been simmering for two hours.

A

C

It wouldn't be unheard of.

A

To if you were to continue a meeting to the next meeting to have some time to review the material after the public hearing started yeah and that's not uncommon for a board to do that.

C

Yeah the board can do, can do that on its own, regardless of the applicant yeah.

H

They make a motion to adjourn.

C

Second, second, all right we're adjourned. Thank you. Everybody.

H

Thank you, goodnight.

C