Groton Municipal Television, CT Groton Historic District, 4 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: Groton Historic District Commission - 10/4/2022

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Groton, Connecticut municipal meeting: Historic District Commission October 4, 2022. Click on the link below to view the agenda.

https://www.agendasuite.org/iip/groton/file/getfile/68994

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A

um I would seek Ferguson for malt.

B

You're mad Douglas, the following public notice. You wanted insertion on Monday September, 26 2025.

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Notice of public hearing issue the historic history commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday October 4th 2022 at 7 pm at the Grafton Town Hall Town Hall Annex 1345, Long, Point Road and virtually via the zoom platform to hear the following applications requested a certificate of appropriate ACC, 22-57-133 River Road, Cyril field owner Advanced group, applicant placement, Windows pin number 26191433989.

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-22-587 Water Street Timothy.

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22 days 2-89 to Godfrey Street, Godfrey, Street, LLC, owner Mark, Waldo applicant roof mount solar panels and then reduces one still. Meeting link will be posted to the town's website meetings calendar by visiting.

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563 password.

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Applications are on file and available in public inspection during all business hours.

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26Th day of September, 2020 etiquette, concrete um I.

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Already hi Goodman Ferguson aye, the reading of the Earth.

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's um HTC 22-54 time you're going to be requested. Foreign.

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So the last time you were here, it's like I had a question underneath yeah.

C

And we sent it all in on the computer. That should be.

D

It right now everything.

A

I'll just start on your end and ask people to make sure it's everything there.

C

On the end yeah, she should be online yeah.

E

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Spent a lot of time on it's pretty self-explanatory. Now.

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E

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So much this is what matches for the materials on the.

F

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I really I can't take minutes if there's no dialogue so.

A

Right now we're just passing around all of the documents that he um submitted for the application and then as soon as everyone's done looking at them, I I guess: I'll put them under the camera, so anybody in the audience can see them.

B

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F

Throw some notes: Here would be great.

A

Great sure, so we were looking through the specs, the gis map and the list of materials, um but because it's approximately 25 Pages, it was just taking a bit to pass it all down. The line.

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um From my perspective, it looks like you have everything here: does anyone on the commission have any questions or comments for the applicant.

C

I was just saying: I saw it and look at it up. Electronic I think he did a really thorough job, so I think it's all right. Thank you. Would.

A

Anyone in the audience like to speak for this application. Would anyone in the audience like to speak against this application? Htc 22-56 is closed. Thank you.

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Foreign HDC 22-57 133, River, Road, serial field owner Advanced group applicant.

A

We will see if they show up later uh 58.

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A

22-58 is 7 Water Street, so I'm going to recuse myself for this one I believe Eric's gonna recuse himself, so I'm going to appoint John Goodrich to fill one of our seats um and Todd I'll. Have you run the careful.

C

I gotta count the pages.

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C

I'm Mark, Moe and I'm the architect on the Zetas, several auditions in the past and the one that's under construction now um so I'm here, because, um as happens in construction, things happen um and much of the construction went on, I was I was out of the country as a matter of fact, um and there were um structural issues and some adjustments here and there, and so I just want to show you what they are compared to the um to what was approved and um and I I.

C

Think some of them are added value actually and I'll start with um yeah.

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E

It goes right down here.

C

I think I switched that.

G

Push it out a little further see if.

C

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A

Well, no one's in the audience, yeah.

C

But it's easier to look at it.

A

Oh, for you guys.

C

They only have one tutorial on this.

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G

Sorry, I, don't know why don't we just get up, they can move over here and then there's more room for them to show.

C

So so, in the original approval, the Four Season room, which, which is basically what was built, looked like this. It had sort of an espaluated landscape that came up the side, the siding here where this is broken up. Where there's, where there's not a window, it was going to be brick with a with a maintained basement window.

C

The basement windows out and the grade over here was always very squirrely in terms of what was going to happen with it, and that was because there were some other requirements that were asked of us by the town that we were thinking ahead about site plan approval and one of them included um kind of a change in elevation step up to help to help the step that you would need to get up the number of stairs to get to this.

C

um This patio up here are you Facing East, so you're facing you are facing north looking at the South elevation. This is where that little parking.

B

Lot he's in the parking lot: oh okay, the.

C

Entrance to the art to the back of us, so the most, um the most substantive changes um which I think are for the better uh is, is that um oh, where do I start the the whole thing? The whole Foundation is Brick now and the grade difference. um This is accurate. It's more like this. There were, uh the stair was changed to actually come up, so this stair, this stair was going to go up and create a Headroom issue in the bathroom and now the stair from the back.

C

This is like, where the patio where you eat it just goes straight up now. So so a lot of the complication that you saw from this side is now gone. The brick extends that's the stair. Coming at you there's a break in the wall. You would walk between this to get to the patio and then there's a nice low, brick wall right here. So so that's that's! That's! That's pretty nice!

C

um This this looks just like this now um and which is a lot less complicated than this, and but the the most substantive thing is that this roof um had to be raised up a little bit and, and so the windows that that were existing upstairs have been replaced with these windows here and they're shorter, because the roof is now, the roof comes up higher toward the E, and so the windows are shorter, which you've got to be.

C

You've got to be coming from Oyster Club to actually like see those windows, because if you are, if you're at in the parking lot looking up the roof blocks, the windows so you've got to get far enough back to and then you're so far back you're, not really um seeing the building you're in front of other buildings. If you were so so that that's kind of the most substantial thing is just those those windows changed their placement.

C

Everything else is exactly the same. um The roof for the most part is the same from the street, which would be from the west side.

C

um It was proposed to be lattice infill to match what what's out here, otherwise and and as it was built, it's it's brick um which, which I think that's better. It's more substantial. It's going to stand up more and they're, and there's really not much of a change on this particular west elevation other than the fact that the roof has just gone up. It's going up in height I. Don't that I, don't know is Tim here. Yet I thought the owner. He was stuck in traffic, he texted me, um but I.

C

It went up um if I had to guess I would say um for structural reasons and I I know when it was designed. We were bringing through a roof height that that sort of um was borrowed from the existing pizzetta, which, which is an old turn of the century building, and it's higher than that now, which is more appropriate, actually should be higher to be in in that kind of a lofted restaurant uh atmosphere.

C

What is the number of inches or feet that it is higher if I had an educated guess hold on a second 18 inches I would say on the bottom of that sash I would say it's more in the 26 inch mark that much that it's raised up.

E

That wall around the patio does it go all the way around or is it just on the side facing the parking lot.

C

It goes that wall um after the break, the Wall comes along and turns and goes um and goes to the North and then stops for the Ingress of the people. Coming in from like the parking lot to get into the.

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Patio about the stairs to the dentist's office is that the scene.

C

Those those stairs um so there's a wall right here and those stairs uh go up behind the wall and I believe I I just saw those series I think the date that they haven't been touched. I think it's the same exact actual staircase that goes up to the dentist's office.

C

I can't be sure, but that's what I thought I saw.

B

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Rebuke from the river per se.

C

From I do have from the river.

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Compared to what was going to.

C

Be done so this was um this was an approved deck extension that was built out. That was going to come over and extend over uh this over this area here, but, but it's not there. Now, um though, it was approved, it Still Remains, something that can be built later on, but instead of the stare of doing something quirky over here and coming up like this, that's the stair right there coming up like this. So it's actually it's it's actually, in my opinion, cleaned up a lot of what was going on over here anyway.

C

And I know that there was also um the foundation had to adjust to some field conditions as well, that were kind of inherited by the field, so I'm not really aware of what they what they were.

C

um But it's it's, the foundation's substantial I I assume it was something pretty legitimate that they had to deal with and that and that that starts to force its way up through the registry of the building or construction point of view.

B

So from a visual standpoint and the primary changes seemed to be that there was a certain amount of lattice underneath the floor. That was um similar to what is on the face of the building. And that was changed to Brick, correct and then the stair which before came up on the partly on the south.

C

Side of the building correct right now goes up on the east side of the east side. It's a straight shot up. What was it like? Did it hit a platform.

B

In turn, before.

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Yeah, it went up to a platform, and that was like TBD to be determined, because we didn't know what the Orlando.

B

Height was going to be yeah.

C

Because the parking lot was um at the time that we got HTC approval, actually, those two massive trees in the front were scheduled to come down by eversource and the whole parking lot was going to change. So we got this approval we got and then halfway through slightly on approval, I think some Rumblings were made in town about those trees and and eversource took them off. The block.

C

I didn't touch him anymore, uh so so the elevation of the parking lot um we countered back and just so the parking lot will be exactly as it is, there's infiltrators that are going to go underneath it, though for for storm drainage, um but but a massive change to the parking lot will not happen, which was which, which was one of the reasons why, by the why the stair Once Upon a Time started so much higher over here, and that really came out of Planning and Zoning wanting us to have a handicap access over here.

C

That was that was higher, that you could roll right in um I, don't know that that's their purview, but but they were driving the show at that point. But but there's plenty of handicap access into the patio there's one directly off the east side right now, which I think makes more sense and then there's this one into the into the upper part of it right there, because the patio has a couple steps in it.

B

Okay and I looked at this before and I did I did um you know, look at what you're talking about where the windows are were cut off by the increase in the roof, height and and I do agree that it's it's tough to see that um you have to get quite a ways back to see the base of the window, so I'm not sure that.

C

Visually, it makes much difference, but the roof was raised. What you said two feet.

B

Which you know, basically, they intersected with what had been I guess at the bottom was of the old windows. When you look at it now, you well, if you have to stand back pretty far, just to see where the bottoms of the windows.

C

Are I I was going to take a picture, but I got so far back that it wouldn't have been worth it because because pizzetta would have been so far away and that's when I said oh wait, this is I might even bring it in because you do have to get pretty far back there.

C

Well, if I can ask, obviously Miss Rowland's nose is in the historic district right. He knows he has to come in front of here for any major changes right then, why was the work done without anybody coming to us till afterward I have no idea.

C

That's kind of an important answer: yeah I got back from from Greece and I and I um I actually went over there and took a look and and uh was pleasantly surprised with a lot of the things and what it looked like. um But then, but then noticed the changes and I had to come up with a couple of SKS for some insulation somewhere and what have you and and I and I so I told Tim I said um so.

C

There's a there's some changes here and we should go in and and kind of come clean on them. um So that's that's why I made the application.

C

I have, if you want for the record: I can show three photographs of the existence and then I can submit them for the record.

C

Take a look at them.

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That gave you a better idea.

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I'll photograph at an angle in the parking lot we'll.

D

C

The east side- yeah right there should have been a window here. That's the stairways going up to the dentist's office right.

B

C

D

Where their window would have been right.

C

There there's the brick veneer, which is there, that's just blocked off, that's an entryway and there was also the um Metro panels and there should be ballards that will be placed there for protection. There's the only three photographs I took so I'll submit those and have them in the file foreign yeah this this window. It looks like it participates in this elevation, but it's very far back and it's not there.

C

It's the wall. There now.

B

Any other comments, Bill, nothing.

C

uh John is all the time to kind of tell my thoughts we do that later before we vote whenever you want I'll, do it later.

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B

If uh would anyone in the audience are we ready for that? Am I jumping the gun? No, no. In any audience, like speaking favorites applications.

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Anyone opposed okay, uh the uh public.

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So do I have the exhibits here. Oh.

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Mark, do you we need those exhibits.

B

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That's not the previous one, uh HTC 22-59 to Godfrey Street.

H

Filling in for Mark, since uh this is George Bush on the husband of Melissa Ryan, who is the principal for Sue, Godfrey LLC, our son's birthday is this evening, so he asked me to come and handle this um as it shows in the application. We're proposing a 14 panel, solar system on the front south facing garage roof and the panels are black, goes.

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Back to you so.

C

You can unlock everyone.

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H

All the conduit will run through the roof to the service entrance on the other side of the house, and the inverter will be in the basement. So it's pretty simple, uh pretty simple installation Mark's done an installation for us over at Groton 1.15 panel 7500s Watt system.

H

It's beautiful works, great I have negative app negative ground utilities bills even in the summertime, so they're much harder to work with than ever source.

A

So do you have a photograph of where the panels are going on the house and where the.

H

um What Mark had given a marked up drawing but the 14 panels from.

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That one right under your elbow looks.

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Like this one, this drawing shows this is a bigger scale.

H

They go on the front of the garage roof which in the photo is there and the wiring will go through the house over to the service entrance on the other side. So the only thing that you'll see are some black panels.

H

So here's one with the with the panels drawn in on it by hand.

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Uses panels that are all black, no okay,.

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If there's any um of the commission members have any additional questions for the applicant.

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um Would anyone in the audience like to speak for this application for anyone in the audience likes to speak against this application? Htc 22-59 is closed.

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Yeah, thank you. um Hdc 22-57 is not here so I move to continue HTC 22-57, all in favor, uh Levinson, hi, Brady, hi,.

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It's continued.

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We continued that one.

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Yeah two people.

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Tim Owens, he just he just missed us.

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Yes, that's sour all right uh public deliberations on HTC 22-56, 8, Ice, House Lane. This was the construction of the new single family um Lots comments.

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All in favor Levinson aye, Brady, aye, Moriarty, aye, Goodman, hi.

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And I think the materials fit into the neighborhood.

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And Ferguson hi, this application is approved.

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We need to say why, like I.

A

Was I was just thinking of a phrase because that's that's new for us. um This application is approved as it's appropriate and new construction in the location that it's at how's that sound.

H

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The certificate.

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Linda, do you know what the next certificate number is you're.

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Going to find it on the second page of the agenda right down at the bottom I think it's 2419.

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B

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Hdc I'll, let you do this one Todd HDC, 22-587, Water, Street,.

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Htc 22-58 7 Water Street comments.

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C

What I'm going to say it didn't get pre-approval.

C

Approval any no excuse for it at all. Maybe they were in a historic district. They should have come before us. I mean everybody's. Doing it now right, let's remove steps, let's not listen to signs. Let's do work, put lights up, half an hour, Downtown.

C

um No comment and see who.

B

Else are, you is Bill sitting.

C

E

um Oh, that's right.

B

Yeah I I hear everything that John.

C

Says and I yeah it's frustrating having. This is our fourth week in a row of people asking for forgiveness in this case it's not as egregious as the other previous cases, but I am I met by whitsend with people asking for forgiveness each week.

C

Okay go ahead, so you know I. Disagree. I can bring up a case where you guys made a guy spend a lot of money tearing down five feet of his garage. So we need to have some consistency on this board and we're going to do it to that. Then we gotta start saying no I, don't think this is appropriate. They know. There's no excuse. You know. I get elderly, sick parents down the road.

C

If I Blast by the police station 120 miles an hour, I could say my parents are sick, I'm still getting a parking ticket, I'm, probably getting cuffs. You know the lock. You know the rules, there's no excuse for it and that's my decision.

B

Okay and I and I and I, hear what you're saying John and I hear what you're saying. However, as I've said before, um this is not Iran and we are not the morality police. So people we'll do things that they shouldn't.

C

Do what our charge here is determine whether or not whether the final product is in fact appropriate.

B

I'm not condoning proceeding on that basis, but I do not think it is grounds to deny someone on.

C

Approval because they jump the gun or something didn't get looked after I mean I, understand what you're.

B

Saying but that's not our job, our job is, is what was done or is what was presented.

C

Appropriate and and I think that this is appropriate in the neighborhood. So that's my feeling about it.

E

And it's distinguishable from the garage cage, because that was really egregious in terms of how it intersected with the house and what was done again.

C

B

I think yeah I think.

C

That's true that we didn't think it was appropriate. In my opinion, it seems like there's two set of rules on this commission doesn't sit well with me and I'd like to say that.

E

G

Right thing on.

C

Which reasonable people, I guess can participate.

B

Okay, any other comments do I, have a motion.

H

And move to approve second.

C

All in favor Ferguson, all right, Levinson, all right, Goodrich, no Brady, hi, okay, the most emotion, passes and and I forgot. The number.

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Is uh two four two zero.

A

um Throw it away, oh.

B

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Htc 22-59 to Godfrey Street: this is the application for their solar panels, any comments or emotions. Second, uh all in favor, Levinson, all right, lady.

B

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Hi good hi Ferguson, the application is approved. Solar panels are appropriate in our district and encouraged by the sessions. 21.

A

Yeah, you guys are ready. You'll get letters in the mail.

C

Set you, you can build your house, you can build your house.

A

um I lost my agenda. I lost Tom's agenda in one of those things. Thank.

B

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I'm not sure where I ended up.

A

Foreign, are you here to observe this evening, or do you have a pre-app.

B

No he's already.

C

B

C

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Observing okay, um I just didn't want to skip you. If you had a Prius um public Communications.

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Letter from Bonnie I'll put everything: yes, please: okay,.

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On Pearl Street, October 3rd 2022, dear Sarah and Peter and Linda and I'm, sending in my resignation from the HTC, thanks for all that you do on this foreign.

A

So, on that note, um I got a follow-up email from Betsy McAlester, um reiterating that Bonnie resigned and letting me know that bill is our most senior alternate and asking. If we were going to appoint him I asked Phil earlier today and he said he would like to accept the appointment. So I sent that email to.

A

um Approval of the minutes from September 20 2022.

D

Can you tell us what they are the driveway? It's uh there's a line. This is a minor, but it says you have a big, the guy that won't have the double wide driveway Eric was the facilitator. Last I. Don't remember this better, there's a sentence in there that says uh they have to have some plans and I think it meant plants for the tea yeah. Yes, in that area, yeah, so Linda probably can catch that as mine ever made me laugh.

D

In the bed, then, the other thing the council did is split, one application into two, where the blacktop driveway and uh shingles um yeah.

E

D

The blacktop driveway and you approved the other one, but the minutes you can't tell which one one was approved and one was denied, but you don't know which one was which so I.

D

You can't tell it says it was flipped into two. The next thing says one was an act, one was denied, one was approval, but it doesn't say which, which one which um at which thing I would have I thought you guys I thought you had minutes in front of you.

A

I forget my agenda, so all right, uh so let's.

D

Continue: I don't care if you fix them or not either the.

A

Second, one should definitely be.

E

E

We need a motion to amend the minutes. I.

A

Think we should just do a motion to continue them and then we'll I'll skip this to Linda. If she didn't hear it and then we can just get them corrected for the next time.

F

Well so I'm here and I did hear them and I'll make those changes because they're on record, so it's easy to find them, and um typically what the other commissions do is they'll just make a motion to accept the minutes as amended. If.

A

Yeah we'll do that. Thank you Linda, um so I will move to approve the minutes as amended. Second, all in favor of Levinson all right, Brady hi, Moriarty, aye, Goodman, aye Ferguson. The minutes are approved. Thank you. Both Linda and Ted um bulbousness.

C

These cat CDs is wondering, what's going on she emailed me.

A

Again so I met with um Tom and um thank you um and at the end of the meeting, Tom was going to send a notice to the homeowner and see what that generates.

C

This is a it's: a Letter of Invitation uh took letter back to re-review the application, so rich is reviewing it we'll get that finalized or go out and try. It should I notify Miss cutscene. Is that or will the town or what's the problem yeah that would be okay, I! Don't know that how the review is going to go if it would be a public hearing. That's.

C

Sure, if you're in communication with her absolutely let her know that that's what we're doing.

E

G

C

E

And block the name of the place out on a block I just have a mental block on the name of the bar. Next to this bridge,.

C

What's going on the bank.

D

And Bridge thank you bridge. They didn't do the steps you still haven't been back. No.

A

That's Court of call.

E

A

You for doing it, bank and Bridge was the.

G

You were Rich Cody, keep insisting that their fence is accurate to play accurately.

D

Approval, it's not greater than three feet.

G

Approval there was a 36 inch, aluminum fence, not the fence. You got that lows. The.

A

Problem to my recollection, is the material or the fence: we've never delineated on the application, but.

G

He put a 36 inch fence, I'm, not sure with the detail, so he chose the the Greg fetus chose out of his file of CAD CAD file, a specific detail for a specific fence which is extremely widely used. He chose that detail. In particular, we voted on that detail in particular, and and whoever it was went out to Lowe's or Home Depot and bought a 24 inch pushing the ground.

A

Fast right so before we were talking about height, but now this is I've.

G

Said that since day, one the.

A

G

Doesn't match the fence and the fence height doesn't match the fence height of the drawing.

A

I think we've had the conversation about the fence height, where you believe that we're stuck on that one. But.

G

A

Don't I mean the detail all.

G

I'm saying is you come and you say you want a 36 inch, aluminum fence the standard as a builder, the standard fence that we buy all the time. That's what you say you want, and then you don't put that in you put an attack in the ground fence to me.

G

It's not what you presented. You know. So what I just don't understand is why that's okay, because then, if that's the case, you know I'm going to tell you I'm, going to put up a six foot, wood fence and I'm going to tack together a couple two by fours and it's going to be the a high and it's going to be close enough.

C

From the plans that I saw that were on there, there were no specific approvals in the moment. In the minutes of the motion and the detail that was, there was substantially the same detail: it's not, but it's Tower and anytime. We do a pencil approval, it's like just don't be higher lower than okay, that's typically for offenses. So that's was mine when I looked at it based on the information I got from the file.

G

You want a standard fence, you want it to look nice, be clean, put in the ground, you expect it to be put in a manner.

C

The details in the front didn't show anything on the ground: either really show the defense of the surface. This fence isn't even it's not even stuck in the ground. It's linked together right.

G

It showed the fence on a side view yeah an elevation you're, showing it as an as that aluminum architectural fence. It's used over and over again. That's not what you used. It's like when you are you or Rich Cody or someone seems to continue to say that it's okay and I just don't understand why.

C

Well, based on I mean, like I, said record in the file that was approved and historically.

G

I approved I agreed to approve, as a member, that that's the one in that detail that I know over and over again, because we use it over and over again I guess, maybe I assume too much emotions.

C

Should be more detail.

A

So that's the case.

A

Yes, they should be more detailed, but going back to when we approve something just generally approve we're approving the evidence that was submitted to us so to Eric's point we approved that fence and that you know we've had conversations about the height and I kind of felt like that was a bit of a losing battle, but the detail I I can see you know So when you say that the approval was a little lacking in detail, we did write approved and we were we were proving with the evidence. So how come that can't be linked?

A

C

Take a look at it again: okay, exact.

G

Same this example, though, the gentleman comes as nicely for the Ice House Lane. He picks a specific light and it's 12 inches tall 25 inches tall make up a number I, don't care, and he comes back with a four inch tall light that looks the same, but isn't really the same. Well,.

C

That's not substantially.

G

The same either so it's a third off and it's substantially the same in your view,.

E

C

Someone goes from 36 to 25 or 18.

G

But there was a purpose to the fence which we considered, which was to keep drinking patrons out from the sidewalk, not to Shield my daffodils and palm trees. There was a point to it. That's that's what I'm saying so when I assumed that it was going to be a fence, I assumed that it was going to comply with the liquor regulations comply with all the other blending and zoning regulations and it didn't and you're saying it's. It's close, but I'm, saying it's 18 inches and 24 inches tall. So it's somewhere between 50. well.

D

C

Know speaking into me, it was honestly one of the first inspections. I did in one even doing a historic district information, so I'm probably going out there looking at it in a sense of like a zoning and planning officer and saying they wanted this, it's lower than that it means the regulation. It means what they meant so I could put on I mean I I probably do need to put on a different hat when I'm doing inspections for HCC and I should look at it. A little more detail.

G

Very respectfully, when you and I walk together through Water Street for approval, we measured railings. You are extremely extremely detailed. Yes, you are for the purpose of just being in compliance and following the plans.

G

I just I to John's point I kind of see this like two two-way standard.

C

Again, like I'll State, yes, I should switch hats when I do HTC inspections. I should be a little more focused on the actual design and the appropriateness and not have my zoning hat on and be like. Well, it meets or is less than the requirement that's suitable for that. So right, yeah.

G

I'll take the arrow on that yeah. There is probably a heightened sense of awareness relative to the group Hub, just in consideration the fact that they've been back and forth here for many different things that were approved. What.

B

About the light.

E

B

Was my next question the sign is up. There is backlit which you're not supposed to have a backward sign right. What's the status of the what's my saying that was my father: okay, yeah! Is that what he did.

C

All right, I've seen it on a week a week or two ago.

G

You raised the point that you got these outdoor speakers get the speakers I'm not aware that they're still on so they're there they're sitting on the outside of the building I mean I, guess that's more of a sound issue, but it's also a it's an air. That's mounted to the building and they're sitting on the top I mean I. Don't.

C

G

B

Hearing as far as I'm.

C

Concerned the Republic was a subtle issue: It.

B

C

I haven't heard any questions from that meeting. I hadn't heard that anyway, it was dissatisfied. I mean you know, one of the one.

B

Of the issues is not this speak out of term, but I mean the this applicant has been well. I can only characterize this Behavior as someone dismissive of whatever we Talent right and somewhat disingenuous on some of those earlier applications that are going to The Patio, which was supposed to be pavers.

C

And he poured concrete and then he said, oh I think they got away from me. You know so he hasn't exactly presented himself in the most favorable light in terms Association, paying.

B

Attention to what he's supposed to do or paying attention to when he's called to account doing.

G

Anything about it, Hoover send a response letter to why we denied his application.

A

I I sent it to he here so I.

C

Will Well we'd appreciate if you take it.

B

C

C

All right, I have one last issue: the email I sent you about the signs. How do we look into that? Our.

A

C

Though so, okay, because of the contact, Mr Burke,.

A

um New business.

C

A

C

They're all the ones for the parking across the apartment.

D

E

Different things actually right.

B

G

Talking about something totally different, I thought I.

B

Thought you were talking about the.

C

um Chamber of Commerce science.

B

C

No that no so I there was some signs on the right way which Public Works taken care of there's the artist signed. Somebody talked to me about which is a temporary sign. That's a John Bird issue like.

A

The parking signs I need to ask Linda to send the application, so we can see if those were approved. There are parking signs on um the young buns building for the new parking lot and I can't remember John pulling them out, but I don't know if they were approved or not. I have no recollection of that and.

C

Then there's also the ones with those same I. Don't know what you call moves like a big classy rifle at the water stand with.

G

Barnwell was tipped over walking the sidewalk, the A-frame signs are prohibited by planning and zoning.

C

Ernest they're in the zoning regulation.

C

It should be like without the public like.

D

E

D

C

Yeah, that would be.

E

It's not in front of the business. The business is around the corner, you're.

G

Talking about the directional sign for the parking lot yeah, then you were talking about the signs on the posts.

C

So for the parking I got one question: there's one on young buttons, there's another one on a post right before you turn.

G

Into the driveway he owns jungles, so it's not on young ones. It's not well.

C

It's a building, I mean I'm, just using his location and then there's the two yeah big black. You know great plastic thing on the bottom um they're on the corner of West Main and you.

G

G

Okay and then, whatever the size of a post, though I mean that's, not okay,.

C

G

C

um I checked I also I got that email and I so forward to Deb Jones to see without using the same gentleman.

G

C

A

John Goodman yeah.

C

B

C

Yeah I didn't know who what type was Sarah and John Hunt, because I'm like I, don't know I'm talking about the signs for the all the bridge signs I.

G

Don't know I'm on.

C

G

Sorry so they put those stanchions and the signs up for the 100th anniversary from the Chamber of Commerce and the question was: are we supposed to approve that or not those.

D

C

Works signs, they're, temporary and their brackets already on the thing. I did a look into the um statutes and said those were the exams records. What other on.

B

The Legos yeah, because I looked back at some Pinstripes, the Town Council some years ago, purchased brackets for.

C

All of the downtown street lights.

B

Exactly so, they were part of.

E

The approved light posts, but never put on yeah, so you're right in the sense that if you.

B

Took a picture eight.

G

Months ago they were not up.

B

G

If this gentleman watches this video tonight yeah, is he too expect of those signs in some form, are going to remain up announcing 100th anniversary of the bridge, the fifth anniversary of Eric on the HTC, the whatever you know forever? I, don't know, that's not my department and do we ever have to approve those or no.

B

Are they considered? Are they considered temporary signs.

C

Yeah my reading.

B

C

I, don't think so. If it's an issue, it's something the HTC because I don't know. If I speak about a term by saying this, but I didn't talk to Bruce flax about it worked out the Y, so we see each other in the morning um I guess they are planning on like in the holidays, putting holiday signs up in the spring the summer, so I believe the chamber is in 10th is to keep them up and and use them.

C

You know, maybe not for these type of things, but for, like you, know, happy holidays or you know what have you whatever more of a generic streetscape.

G

They just just raise this gentleman's question again, which is: why does the? Why does the Chamber of Commerce have the ability to just add signs to downtown to town property advertising.

C

Sounds like something the HTC should address, because that sounds like an issue that you think I'm, the speaking of staff. I don't know. But if you have an issue with it, you think it's part of HCC and it's with chamber and Town Council. That's something that should be.

G

Done I'm personally not opposed that he was asking.

C

These questions, but isn't his issue more- that there's sponsors on there than the signs I think that's the thing is yeah. The sponsors will be gone after.

D

C

Can't regulate content either, but I think that was advocate. So let's say we.

E

C

Whatever, but it has to be in a certain font or whatever, it sounds like in the edge I.

G

Expect, like Supreme Court cases of like no obscene material and things like that, but I I, I, look again: I don't have any strong feelings either way. I just think. His point was interesting, which is my.

C

Knowledge, those signs are just because they're, temporary and they're in the right way.

B

C

There's people didn't know more than I. Do so I personally have a problem with it. Playing devil's advocate what I see is. Let's say you and I own building shops across the street right and you give the chamber some money. So now next thing you know you're on every street pole the Dunkin Donuts. Next to him that was kind of right, and so now the town is promoting your business and and although I think the signs are fine, I do see.

C

So whether people could see a fairness issue. I think the issue is, if they're, in the common good or for the common purpose, not for Marshall.

G

So you want people to know more about the talent or any circumstances. Any town in this country anywhere should be have private sponsors for a private non-profit on their property, like that, I completely am against that particle signs. I, don't care.

A

About non-regulated activity is event family, so we do not have any jurisdiction or throw that Banner.

G

There's an answer.

C

Say that again, event.

A

Banners are a non-regulated activity from HDC.

B

But most of the time when you see these signs are hardly uncommon in a lot of times. You know the banners on the street, but.

C

They are typically generic or not specific, as any particular group is you're going through narragans. It is about designs, say you know, live stay, eat right.

C

Again, just Devil's Advocate I see you guys issue with the sponsors, but then again you know as business people are you going to give an organization money without getting advertising I mean it's yeah. It.

G

Goes hand in hand right, he owns a marina in town and you've got a big sign on the way into his marina. That says, like ask your Bridge sponsored by Seaport Marine now look. Is there a lot of competition among Marines? No, not really, but I mean what, if Adam's running his donut shop, and it's.

G

E

Everyone would think that I could go across the street. You don't.

C

Have to or chamber manages those yeah.

E

They're private events.

G

Yeah, but it's never been like you know, the Nature Center walked for the owl sponsored by Foxwoods. You know it's been the Nature Center walk for the owls, come to like the fun run, so.

E

On those banners, there's that rule that you can't have sponsorships because I put benefits up for different events.

G

B

Those across Main Street.

C

Across the street, you cannot put a sponsor on right. That's a rule of the banner.

G

The banner police.

E

A

New business new business is 2023 calendar. If anyone wants to look at it, I don't know if, for some reason, I was only interested in it because we didn't have a second meeting in September this year.

E

B

Knew I was awake.

C

For the first one and I came here: um oh my second one, because I'm.

B

Like I can come here at 6, 30, so I'm just sitting here, seven.

C

O'clock rolls around seven or five like okay, I.

A

Just wanted to see if there was something I.

E

A

Make it there's only one meeting in July, but that's because July 4th is on holiday, um so I have some new business as well. Wait one wait, one second Linda! We don't need to approve the calendar right. Yes,.

F

A

So I moved to approve the 2023 calendar. Second, all in favor Ferguson, bye, uh Goodman, Moriarty, bye, Brady, sorry, clevenson, I'm. Sorry, uh the calendar is approved all.

G

Right so I have two commission issues that I want to raise um separately, one for clarification and one for this announcement um for this meeting tonight.

G

Seven Water Street to present a job so I did that job as a with Cave Lake in my company, with Cody, um so I had intended on recusing myself anyways, but I got an email from Sarah. That said, Not only was I to recuse myself, but it was suggested and she agreed that I leave the room for both parts of the year.

G

So I responded back to Palm or not Tom, sorry, Peter first and he said Tom was running the meeting, so I called Tom and I discussed it with Tom and I said I, don't think that's appropriate I had no issue whatsoever with with accusing myself but I didn't understand why I would have to leave the room. Is it gives a perception that there's some issue because many times we've all recused ourselves?

G

No one's ever gotten up and left ever since I've been on a commission, so Tom responded back and said that it was his suggestion that that was done because he's seen in other commission hearings and um but it was just purely out of caution over an appeal or something along those lines. Right close enough.

C

Yes and after that and I responded that it was my suggestion that he leave because I've had I've seen it before, and it's just I'm parcel I checked with Deb Jim's after I emailed you, and it is what all the other commissions do in town, Inland, Wetlands, Planning and Zoning zba. If they recuse themselves, they leave their room, though they're not in any way influencing the application. So that is a standard procedure for Commissioners.

G

When they recuse and that's why I'm raising this so I was in a Niantic hearing and the commission member got up and left which I actually thinking about it wasn't a bad idea. My second part to the question was well. Third part second, part is: is that something that we should be doing? Do we all think that's a good idea, because it does seem to be done more often than not, and I can see why that would create at least a little bit of a less level of conflict.

A

I think that personally, if other commissions are doing it and we're the only one, not that is something that we should be doing. I just wasn't wasn't aware of it prior to that so I'm totally in support of doing that. I don't know if anybody has any objections.

G

Except in this scenario, where we recuse ourselves, because we have to present it right well,.

B

Then you have to leave the wrong percentage.

C

A

I think that's a very valid.

B

Point well, I, certainly don't have an objection that if we want to adopt that policy, but the other commissions.

A

Like we don't know what we don't know, I didn't I didn't know that that's what we.

C

Were supposed to do the one major case law that I studied when I was doing, my zoning was that someone in a Town Council or whatever can't accuse themselves sat in the back and just like caught the whole time when something happened, and it turned into a thing where the application was eventually going to feel approved. So it's just like, like I, said.

B

What do they do? They.

C

Tend to make did what calm.

B

Oh, he was set in the balcony, sat.

C

In the back of the room, but he still had influence.

C

Comes from if you're out, then there's no question. It's a.

G

Vote I do think tonight. There's.

B

G

Zero influence once again, then my third question to that is: when you said you were going to accuse yourself, I asked you: were you planning on leaving the room too, and you said no and I'm just curious. Why you wanted me to leave the room.

A

But not because the same reason when I told you on the phone call the reason that we were the reason that Tyler and I were talking and the reason that I told you on the phone is that you're, very outspoken and that you can create um confidence, isn't the right word but you're, just exceedingly outspoken, I'm, not you know, you know, I make my comments, I, don't challenge people I I, tell people what I think, but you don't and that's why so I I I didn't know that leaving the room was what we were supposed to do.

A

I was just following a roll call that we've always done so.

F

A

Think that sitting there would influence anybody and I recused myself. I wasn't involved in that project at all. I simply refused myself, because in the past I've represented Tim Owens, so I didn't want to vote on the application.

G

Okay, but you do see like there's that sort of a double-edged sword I, had.

A

I just explained why yeah.

B

E

Forward both of you in the future would be. If you recruit, you leave, that's just the rule.

A

Any other new business.

H

B

G

H

B

You want to go no.

C

Good you finish, then I just have one.

G

My second point is um since appointments or reappointments are up. um There was a reappointment application sent to Betsy Yesterday by Sarah. For my reappointment, which I didn't even know, was up that you said you did not support my reappointment right, just curious. Why so.

A

I think that we have some good alternate candidates, but I also think that you don't always treat the commission members or the applicants with respect.

G

Can you outline of those or could you add that to the application or to the thing, and can you provide specifics? I'll.

A

Write it down: okay,.

G

I guess my second part to that. Did anyone persuade you it's Town staff or anything like that?

G

It was mentioned by Town Council Members, that there was conversation with staff.

B

D

I'm good thank.

G

G

But specifics would be better.

C

Historic district enforcement notice out to 39 Pearl Street for the fence that was conducted.

E

A

C

Am I able to comment on something that Eric just said as kind of the new guy on the board? One thing I really like about our commission is I, think a very diverse group. You know you and I were joking about it before everybody knows I, probably wouldn't change a thing. If I had my way and people that are on the other side, but I think that's a good thing. I think a diverse group shows multiple sides, I think. Then they we all respect each other, and you know I respect them, can zero.

C

All these friends, um so I would just say yeah maybe without spoke. Maybe I can be a little big-headed, but I.

C

um But I think it's good I think it makes us a strong board and I think having that mutual respect make sure don't turn into the group. That's next door, where they hate each other and they're constantly in the paper for not doing the business of the town and taking personal vendettas out against each other, and that's just my two cents, so I think we're a great group. I like everybody on here and I, think it's important that we.

G

All have diverse groups I think it represents the community much more fairly yeah I mean from coming to HTC meetings years ago and seeing what they did. I, don't know how I in many times, disrespectful.

G

Right compared to well.

A

E

G

The rules of Decor I mean I've, never insulted anyone I've ever patronized. Anyone I've never voted against. Anyone for any personal reason.

A

I disagree, but when did I vote against someone for I will write it down. I didn't I, didn't say that you voted against somebody for that. You made a list of characteristics to which I said I disagree, so I do think that you've, just you treated some applicants disrespectfully.

A

And I'll break that on my reappointment application.

G

Okay, I just think again.

G

Your attacks are very pointed, and you made it clear despite the fact that you're trying to step back I guess what I'm saying is like you. You clearly want me off this Commission.

A

I was asked if I would support your reappointment, a simple question: I said: no that doesn't mean you're not going to get reappointed. That's just my opinion that they asked me.

G

No I'm aware of that, because I think you know there were Town Council Members that reached out that were concerned over why I wasn't being supported by you.

A

Hold on I'll write a summary.

E

So, what's the process that you don't get the final say about it, let me just make a recommendation and then it's up to the subcommittee of the Town Council that does.

G

The Personnel, so this thing was voted on with the Town Council right right, but in the history, according to other Town Council Members, it's very rare that commission members are ever not supported for reappointment by the chair, except when they've showed up drunk, missed meetings, 90 of them yeah and I made 91 of the meetings. Despite you said, 85 sorry.

G

um I've, never obviously never so drunk um I've, never sworn or anything along those lines. So I don't see anything that I did to be that egregious to warn me to be off the position.

A

And maybe in their eyes it won't but I'll just write the summary of what my perspective is: yeah. Other courses, I love, Twitter,.

A