Hyperledger Foundation Capital Markets SIG, 25 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: FMSIG meeting with Prasanna Lohar - Blockchain Use Cases In India: The Boost From The Digital Rupee

Description

Prasanna Lohar, CEO Block Stack and President of the India Blockchain Forum, gave a deep dive on ‘Blockchain Use Cases in India: The Boost from the Digital Rupee’ at the Hyperledger FMSIG in the Asia Pacific timezone.

Hear first hand from Prasanna on:
- The current state of banking use cases in India
- The coming of the Digital Rupee and its effect on these use cases
- How the Digital Rupee will be built on top of public digital infrastructure
- What role such infrastructure will have on the readiness and efficacy of a nation to issue a CBDC and to integrate it as a payment rail in the Digital Asset Marketplace
- and much much more, plus a vibrant Q&A!

Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use

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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)

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This is the live, stream has started the.

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Live stream has started so should I just kick it off.

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Okay- let's do that so um good morning and good afternoon to everyone joining this meeting in Asia, Pacific and good evening to those joining us from the US, especially as it's Thanksgiving and uh I think Lipton, a special thank you for being here: I'm Julian, Gordon I'm, the VP Asian Pacific for the hyperledger foundation and I'm delighted to be here to for this.

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As you can see, hyperledger financial markets special interest group meeting held specially at this Asian Pacific friendly time, which we've done a slightly different times normal, but we have every month we have an asia-pacific friendly, um Sig I'm, really looking to for today's presentation.

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Thank you, Persona Lahore, for being here to Deep dive with us on blockchain use cases India the Boost from the digital rupee uh and, as I said, Thank you to our and I, would say: Intrepid uh Financial, Market Sig chair the wonderful bipin barathen, uh who is taking time out from his Thanksgiving uh evening in New York, to share to chair today's event.

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So with that, actually one quick thing: I have to first give a quick housekeeping item as a Linux Foundation meeting I have to mention that our participants have to comply with our antitrust policy, which you can see on our website. uh So with that I'm gonna hand over to you, prasanna and I look forward to it, and people want questions put them down in the chat, um uh vipin and others can answer as we go along and then we'll probably have a q a at the end.

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But this is a meeting so Phil, you know ping get involved and discuss all right. Persona I've passed it over to you. Yeah.

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So uh great so so great to be here, uh Julian and vipin uh in this presentation. I'll talk a lot about blockchain use cases in India and primarily how digital rupee is shipping up in uh India.

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This presentation is supported by many partners who are part of India blockchain Forum.

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Well, as in Indian.

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Ecosystem, they are supporting hyperledger per se, so I have captured some of these.

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15 20 startups and their respective Live use cases in Indian context, so uh this will be a bit rapid session and be in touch so that we can brainstorm uh online today as well as offline uh based upon the guidance by vipin and Julian. So uh so friends, yeah so I think uh what we are seeing right by 2030 humans will be banking with the no banks. That's a caption all about my presentation, so I think, let's find out.

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So what we have seen back in 1967, where uh Barclays Bank has come up with the First ATM out there uh in in England, uh and that is what that was The Innovation that we went from there on. We have seen lot. Many Innovations are happening in a digital channel side. In banking side we have seen how this pop-up Bank branches mobile banks used to carry the banking services during World War or we as well as we have seen uh 14 years back how the banking ecosystem collapsed in many parts of a world.

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One of those example is Lehman Brother, who, which was one of the top Bank into the 2007 and all of a sudden. It has collapsed. uh Two: zero zero, eight uh down the line. There are some experts, so called Satoshi nakamoto's found how we can create a financial equilibrium worldwide uh without any uh regulatory government so on. So that was a try which we have seen with the with the Bitcoin back there in 208. uh Since then, I think we have seen at least fifteen sixty thousand plus cryptocurrencies in the world.

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uh We have seen how Facebook also uh come up with some kind of a parallel economy or parallel currency, so called Libra back in uh two zero one, eight and I think by the line 2021 because of lack of a regulation or lack of a support by many uh countries and governments, and even if a lot of these 30 plus Partners has a has a withdraw on their support to uh Facebook or Libra, and this has this has vanish.

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But these are all the things has given a lot of Russian out there in India, we have seen how demonetization has uh changed the currencies since uh 2016. Now uh almost 86 percent of Indian currency was was recirculated right back then uh back then, while today we are talking about a digital rupee, it's going to be another exercise for India. While there are some countries like El Salvador, and there are many more who are looking at how a crypto like Bitcoin can be a legal tender right.

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So there are, a lot of things are happening worldwide right. So at the same time, uh banking International settlement collaborating with uh multiple countries coming with lot of wholesale cbdc projects. Example, project helvetica at the Swiss National Bank, or a recent announce of a successful pilot of a Ambridge right among six countries or a project Dunbar and project. Dura and and bis is now stopping here.

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So they are asking many more countries to participate uh in attention that how can we create a better sustainable, interoperable, long-term technical uh uh uh uh cpdc's or a central bank digital currencies out there? So while we see the money is moving from bartering system to gold cards, so I think it will not be surprised money slowly slowly, moving towards digital assets, so RPI RBI has announced RBI, which is a India's Central Bank Reserve Bank of India, has announced to into zero two one.

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They are looking forward how how money money can be circulated or can be issued? Can how can you issue Fiat money in form of a digital form or not? That is the first time RBI has announced and since then RBA is doing lot of activities. So, during during my presentation, I'll walk you through those activities.

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So let's understand, let's uh understand how uh how internet world is needing blockchain and how India is adopting blockchain, specifically how Central Bank currency is the shipping up as a form of a digital rupee in India, let's see which are those best practices recommendation considering learning from many other countries like China, China's, Yuan or cambodias, and many more other projects and we'll see how hyperledger ecosystem fits into all of the cpdc's implementation.

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How hyperledger and the overall community support and various projects at hyperledger, uh mature and uh uh upcoming projects how they will really create a better uh interoperable uh uh cbdc's across the world and we'll I'll talk about one minute around mudra Circle, which is backed by hyperledger out there at a block stack the company where I am CEO. So, let's get through right. So friends, uh uh we have seen rise of Internet since 1995.

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We have seen uh some of the logos, Vanishing right, say: example: codex or you talk about uh uh all these traditional models has vanished because of a internet coming into picture. Rather, uh internet has given a boost for uh customers. uh What they are looking so called is a better experience uh under a Web 2.0. There are a lot of logos today we can't survive with, without, for example, Android iOS or in some country like Ola Uber or in India so-called zomatos. We people cannot live without uh using WhatsApp and so on.

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So that's a traction where almost every ecosystem, Team every communication method, every Transportation or every transaction method. Business models operations are now riding on on internet. While we have seen half of the population more than that is, is on internet, uh we have seen almost every generation today news internet or for for something or the other kind of a Services right. So while we speak about internet uh digital transformation is a bigger agenda for every government, every company out there and they are riding every other stuff from a zero digital to Extreme Digital.

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How it will be backed by internet Extreme. Digital is something like I have entered in a bank branch and they know who has really entered. How was my financial stability? What is that a product we can offer and once I come out? They know whether I was happy or unhappy right, so that kind of autonomous world is coming up with various kind of interfaces we have seen keyboards or a mouse. So slowly slowly we have entered last 10 years into touch swipe or a talk and eventually down the line.

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Then decade we will have a lot of brain to brain interface or a gesture based. So interfaces plays a major role out there, adoption of any of the things. So while we talk about various blockchain or internet based ecosystems, these interfaces are going to play major role, so I think it will not be surprised. Metaverse becomes a new interface for us, but so friends, are we good enough? Are we good enough after internet adoption and so much modernization of the world since last, more than 20 25 hours right?

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So look at this like almost 8 billion people, and uh maybe one third people still don't have a digital Trail or a digital identity. uh Maybe two billion people don't have a account so called a financial inclusion support in the internet world. We see lot of frauds happening around otps or receiving a fraudulent smss, or there are fake fraud, people driven frauds like fake degrees or fake pan cards out there in India fake passports. There are a lot of other opportunities which are riding on a challenging structure of a operation, Indian banking context.

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Right, if you look at this, how long queues in front of a Banks or a there is a there is a thing called as a direct benefit transfer, which is done by the Banks only of our government to the fellow citizens Farmers. So these are all the operational challenges out there India right. uh There are ecosystems like um wheat, or there are other community like sugarcane or agriculture, where every transaction happens manually, although in India we have a jamb Trinity, which is so called a jandan rupee accounts or a aadhar and Mobility.

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Still today in 2022, we have a lot of other challenges to be surpassed where we need lot of automation, a lot of operational excellence out there. So what we have seen in Indian contest, peer-to-peer payments, bnpl or uh any other Lindy models is suddenly vanished and transformed as a regulatory npfcs right. So this is something happening or followed by whatever transaction you use on internet is always insecure.

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So, while we are adopting internet today, we are sitting on a edge where every company, every government, every Bank, every Health Care, wants to know who is their customer. Whether the customer is a trustworthy, where can we really translate with that customer and at the same time, customer or a fellow citizen wants to know whether my government is good? Whether bank is really sustainable, where all these Healthcare hospitals are really trustworthy. So there is a deficit Gap right out there.

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While we talk about internet so much so so there comes technology called blockchain and says that I am a foundational technology right, so I'm a foundation in technology I will improve productivity. I will allow radically simplify the collaboration between right right actors, uh say: example: a use case between Banks right. How can we create a decentralized kyc out there so that we remove those intermediaries along running operational process and create a trust among participants? Example? Banking ecosystem?

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Can we create a trust among all banks while we drive cbdc while we drive trade Finance while we drive cross-border payment and many other uh many other use cases which blockchain comes and knocks the door of many other Industries? This is what is needed. So what what we have seen? uh The challenge is internet uh blocks. Today we are under a system where we pay some part of our money, fees to Ola, Uber, Visa, Mastercard, rupees and so on. Right uh only in Internet world, we are surrounded by the hackers.

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While we do our transactions, we spoke about a need of a digital Identity or a sales or individuality. A big tech company like Googles or metas, are covering almost half of the world of a population. We have attention toward a 17, sustainable goals. We have to add up industry 4.0 heavily. We need to see how we can create a multi-party test in a share economy.

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This is the world is looking for and uh the blockchain being a foundational technology, since 2008 has come up with a lot of new things: new platforms, new new uh protocols, uh so called layer, 2 protocols and so on. At the mainstream we have seen there are some cryptos, but there are some platforms like hyperledger and many others who are giving a opportunity to create a better web to world into the into the web three. While everybody knows about what is blockchain one and two, so primarily the banks, governments are looking forward.

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How we can implement dapps or a smart contract based ecosystems out there in a blockchain 2.0 blockchain 1.0 is a completely mainstream. Many uh many things around crypto. We keep hearing it's going up and down, although it requires some kind of a guidance regulations, compliance worldwide as a collaboration impact. We will see lot. Many other use cases out there. So today we are in sitting of a crops of one or two hour, blockchain 3.0, where we have seen how Bitcoin has tried to create a financial ecosystems or how this 17 000k cryptocurrencies.

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In my view, in the next two to three years, we will drill down to the hundreds of them. Considering the lot of Regulation compliance guidelines will come from many countries. uh We have seen tries of a a parallel economy defies today we are talking about metaverse or nfts or a device, and that is becoming a reality.

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The industry is moving up into trillions of industry, down the land uh 10 years or so, and where the companies like a banking International settlements are coming up with the Global Financial inclusion to say how we can create a central band, digital currency, ahead of many other threats to the world example cryptos or political threats from many countries, or how big techs are shaping up and covering the world. So how can we create a decentralized or some Sovereign payment ecosystem, so-called in Indian story? We are talking about a digital rupee.

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So while we talk about digital rupee, let's go back and see how India has adopted blockchain out there. Two zero to 2019 India has come up with its first national strategy, which talks a lot about uh uh uh about awareness. He talks about various platforms to be used. It talks a lot about how we can create a use case repositories. It talks about how we can bring on these companies so-called aadhaar or energy idrbt npci Revit, to bring on a right uh blockchain platforms all together, so regulator is also supporting RBI irda, the ifsca.

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These Regulators are coming with a lot of Accords down the line last two three years, and some of them are around tokenizations or cross-border payment or SME business models, and so on. So India is geared of in many areas. Rights to to Really operate on a on a on a blockchain technology. Can we create our own blockchain platforms like India chain? Is a project is kicked off or a standardization around blockchain technology compliance, regulatory Frameworks, uh acceleration programs are being handled by Regulators.

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There are a lot of things that are happening in Indian context and if you look at the government ecosystem today, it's a disconnected I have seen in my personal experiences. uh There are a lot of entities are involved for every business operation, say example uh claiming your land or a titling of your land uh transactions to do the whole process is having too much of a too much of a man, man in Middle, uh extensive corruption, OPEC operations, and it takes a lot of time.

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It takes 45 days 50 days, 60 days to really claim your land title right, yeah and if some dispute happens it goes heavier. So there are a lot of use cases. We have seen the state governments like Maharashtra, Telangana, Rajasthan or Kerala uh Assam Karnataka Tamil, Nadu jharkhand. There are a lot of government use cases we have seen like in Tamil Nadu.

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We have seen voting tracking, although it didn't pick up because of some mindset- issues blockchain District, something which Telangana has announced to do: justice and law or energy management in uttar, Pradesh issuance of degree certificate. Many unities are aligned electronic health records in West, Bengal, uh total tax collection or e-residency. uh Some of the state governments are exploring all about uh cyber fraud incident. Tracking. uh There are some police departments under some company like polygon, are helping out them.

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There are artificial certificate coverage certificates on a blockchain direct debit transfer, which SBI has done on a European side, non-blockchain use case, but they are looking at how it can be really done on a on a blockchain, smart, Agriculture and tracking of a vaccinations land home registrations. These are all these use cases which are primarily adopted. Yes, I can say that a lot of Pilots are being done and these use cases are primarily adopted in country.

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Like India, so country is not stopping at a government, but there are many other use cases, so-called the hotel booking, or we talk about digital currency. We are today talking about cyber security. Where how fraud can be reported from One bank to another, uh then then there are Courier ecosystem. Logistics, Aviation, gmr Finance is working on a lot of other use cases. uh Companies like uh Bajaj Finance users are working closely with some of the airlines to have a insurance on the spot on a on a smart contracts. uh There are a lot of use.

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Cases are coming in a nutshell. Every industry today has understood power of blockchain in form of some MVP POC Pilots under guidance of Amity under guidance of a mini, is Academia. Many stakeholders like idrbt cdac, ilt pillis, and their many more iits are really making. These uh things happens out there in India at India, blockchain Forum. uh We look at many stakeholders are coming up with a lot of other use.

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Cases like uh we have many startup companies who are adopting hyper Ledger heavily and what we have seen how Hyperlite has really made many of those use cases example. Settlement settlement is a is a company who works in a government, Financial, Health, Care and all, and they have done more than four or five use. Cases live in India, currency distribution or uttarakhand, medical asset, traceability uh being a successful pilot at a RBI Innovation Hub, and there are many others right.

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So DLT Labs, uh which operates in many areas, has done a lot of a use case in supply chain, logistic tracking and so on. Right, uh digital age, successful POC pilot at RBI, Innovation have followed by International remittance with one of the prominent Bank in um uh in the South or South India orograph is another DLT protocols, uh giving some kind of a banking automation with a triple entry, accounting or a settlement audit, and uh how how we can done a better recollection backing ecosystem.

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Let's look at, furthermore right new Straight take, which is a upcoming business model. They are giving very good boost on a hyperledger with their products called as a myfix multi interface Financial exchange, which gives from start to end complete customer life cycle as well as operation cycle on a on a on a blockchain, and it's live in Federal bank and they're. Talking with many other Banks out there, everybody knows, Zee platform has become a global.

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It gives lot of attention for developers and communities to build lot of use cases on a hyper Ledger sniper future Tech, which is a very, very good startup, backed by some of our influencers. They have done lot of uh use cases at ifsca uh and uh RBI, and there are some snapshot or a healthcare chain use cases they have done on a hyperledger IR versus one of the well-known brand in a digital identity, uh not only in India but country like uh Bhutan and some of the European countries. They have built self Sovereign.

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Knows uh around this, there are four or five use cases they have made live in many states like Maharashtra state for caste certificate or philosopher police, for a fire. Registration blender is upcoming company, uh they are ganga about hyperledger and they have built some of the digital identity. Products on klifky or uh or uh uh in in.

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They are building uh building cpdc's out there right. So looking forward world was one of the speaker last time. uh They have built a warehouse financing how it can be really built a better Financial ecosystem with there, for whereas financing Blossom is a built on a hyperledger ecosystem where they are talking with the mini Banks and they are technically live with a couple of banks in India, where a complete banking business model of a fixed deposit, they are, they want to bring uh on on a blockchain uh uh prominent, simplify, transbank, uh Quantum Labs.

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There are these examples, so friends what I want to talk about? uh Indian ecosystems primarily aligned with the blockchain adoption, and if you look at overall uh hyperledger adoption out here, larger use cases are built on the hyper religion, because hyper religion supports lot many things into the community block stack or carpi and print to block. These are all those examples who are things making things happy uh or happen. uh Bank ecosystem, uh if you see in Indian context uh or in the globally worldwide banking is changing.

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Banking is moving from traditional banking to the digital banking, to the intelligent banking, or we are in the crust of digital and intelligent, but in every layer every layer depends upon the previous layer example. While we talk about a blockchain based banking, it will always have some kind of apis or analytics support or a digital banking support out there. So today, 201 2 banking is sitting on a uh with a view that how we can adopt intelligent, Banking and autonomous banking as a traditional banking model. We are well versed in India with the India stack.

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If you go back in 2008 the way we used to do banking since then, last 15 year, India stack has really boost up the whole ecosystem. Tomorrow, digital rupee, which we will build at India, will be washed by the world. Why? Because we are already sitting on this railroad, so-called digital identity by other or a Digi, Locker or ecos ecosystem payment, reloads of UPI and other enabled payment, ecosystems or imps by npca and for more. We are talking about a consent layer today, which is account aggregator, going to helpful for many other business models.

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The way UPI was helpful for payments, I am seeing account. Aggregator will be helpful for a 10 plus business models out there and today being a contributor to account aggregator API ecosystems. We are looking at how we can build a consent layer backed by happily, it is out there right so, furthermore, in 2022, if you study every bank and a banking ecosystem, you will find today. Banks are looking for many other areas. So apart from digital rupee, banks are looking for instant payment, instant settlements. They are looking how they can create a better customer experience.

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They want to do away with the Bad Assets. The way we have seen many many frauds in Indian context. Can we create a ecosystem where we can know he's a fraudulent customer in the other bank. We will not allow him to go for a loan. Any other banking ecosystems. Fintas are collaborating with the bank. So how can we multi-data uh data transformation or a data security? There are a lot of disputes this happen because of a manual process. In a in a banking. We need a digital identity.

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Today we have other fine, but we need a fractional identity. We need to know how much the other data is utilized by the bank. Customers want to know how their data is secure. We need tamper for it. Locks RBI every year, comes to the banks and do lot of examination right. Look at that those examinations Banks want to really see how Auditors are aligned. How are your reporting is getting automated RBI vision statement, which is uh updated every four years?

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It will give lot of traction and a view that how all of these asked by the banks will be will be covered in the next two to three three years. If some of those fintechs are hearing me, they will see new business models, which are mentioned, rbi's vision, statement, RBA vision, statement, talk about data privacy, it talks about a need of automation, it talks about a security, cyber security talks about many more business models, and it's welcoming tech companies and our blockchain companies to bring and do lot of experimentations with them example see.

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This is a current web to ecosystem, where customers go and do the transactions on a upis or phone page or on a e-com or a post ecosystem. The whole process uh needs a another cycle which is called as a reconcil and settlement, which is error prone manual.

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It takes a lot of cost and this is how we are creating our banking since last several years right, which requires lot of attention toward Hardware management, Disaster, Recovery, drill practices, security at every every uh hop and so on, and this is built on our traditional uh oracles or rdbmss or Java, and so on now look at this ecosystem right, which is a backed by blockchain right, so where we could see a node of RBI, node of sdfc bank or node of SBI bank or node offer icsa bank and so on, which doesn't require any reconciliation settlement.

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It doesn't require man in Middle it does. It is far more secure than what what we have seen here right, but will it be possible in a one day or two day right? It is so much investment we have done in in many more business models. Many more infrastructure out there since last so many years, but in Indian context we can look at this dream.

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Web3 model should come right, so that is how we are giving attention to many other use cases where blockchain comes and says that we will create these kind of ecosystem, which is a more secure, more decentralized, more configurable bad by smart contracts or tokens right, and there are many more other use cases we'll see.

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So in Indian context, if you study- and you will come up with at least 50 plus use cases on blockchain, where in your banking regulation, banking controls, banking, cost overheads will will be boosted right so use case like cross border payment, where SBI have done.

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One of the use cases with the Nepal or ICS abandoned with Emirates MBD decentralized kyc, where 11 plus banks are doing this use case, along with the media and IIT billi Central bandage currency, which is now reality in form of a retail or a wholesale uh cbdc tokenization is the one we spoke about how Federal Bank is working with the new strict Tech. This decentralized Finance next year deal identity, trade, Finance compliance security, safe record, keeping secure open banking. How can we better integrate with the fintech syndicated lending cashless District fraud management?

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There are many more use case right so where we at a block stack also working closely with some of the larger Banks to to create uh many use cases. Furthermore, ATM cash loading, which is a very error prone at the end of year, Banks, like a larger banks, are in a in a with a corrosive suspense account. So we can really do with the with those things. If you have a better ATM cash loading process, smart reconciliation systems where in vajra or NPC have tried doing it.

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uh Let's see how they will, furthermore, automate that whole process branch operations opening of ATMs. How can we really keep a track of every branch operations? Invoice discounting? uh Then you talk about a complete customer life cycle, uh so there are. Many of these use. Cases are aligned a field inspection where we have to see the inspection of a particular mortgage which which, uh which is given as a as a as a loan. So there are a lot of fraud does happen.

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So these kind of ecosystems, the blockchain based ecosystem- can really shape up the Indian Bank ecosystem. Things are happening, RBI Innovation have various other Regulators are really helping in an Indian context. The whole journey has started in 2017 with the bank chain, Consortium of 36 members. It couldn't fly because it has its own challenges. I would have seen if a hyperledger would have been supported in 2017.

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We could have had a better picture out there in Indian context, as bank has done some use cases with the Bajaj electrical icsa, with the Emirates NPD SBI, with the Nepal Banks or their 2018-19. We have seen this New Consortium found by Bank of Baroda Union bank icsa and 15. Plus banks are supporting it right.

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We need to see how it will this Consortium, because in any blockchain use case, what is required to have a better governance among all the right actors which is being solved by ebik, but we need to see which are the top use cases. Priority use case can come. Income tax department has tried one use case around 15 years. 26 years, which is another error prone and.

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Model along with the quoted Bank TCP bank and the six other Banks.

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Some of the blockchain use cases into trade I am looking at RBI Innovation up how they are helping Bank University for awareness, as well as a making things happen. So collaboration between ebik and RBI Innovation will give lot of incentives for a blockchain adoption in India right.

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So uh apart from Banks, there are a lot of support from Revit uh to bring on a blockchain on a account aggregator on blockchain idlbt has come up with a two strategy paper with the intention of how we can create a banking blueprint wherein hyper Leisure can come into picture and say we can create a a banking blueprint, prototype or a platform which will be a something like a drag drop and a business BPM process completely backed by a blockchain.

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So I think this is how we are looking at uh some of the use cases idrbt, where attention from RBI to Ideal. Can we create a blockchain 5G kind of adoption or some kind of a POC Pilots ifsca unitary regulator, bringing a lot of support on the on a web, 3 npci vajra, and let's look at how npci will support a retail cbdc out there. They have recently announced they are working on a retail cbdc with the five banks. Nibm's role is around. How do you create a blockchain awareness, Wave, 3 awareness, digital identity awareness?

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So, in my personal capacity we have done almost five six rather India's. First, first uh cbdc master class was conducted back in 2019.. Since then, RBI has announced around how their are going to cover up a cpdc in India RBI. Innovation of we are talking a lot around many use cases. They are working on these.

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Cases we have, we have seen at uh Indian ecosystems. Are we Innovation with the settlement? Stagey digital age? Stpi is closely working with the snipers of our Labs good. To see that many companies who are part of these adoptions are covering hyper Ledger at a greater extent, and we would like to see how many more companies come and contribute at hyper laser ecosystem so that you become tomorrow's Sciences or tomorrow, Snappers or tomorrow's Tech, mahindras or tomorrow, simplifies who are working on all of these prominent use cases in a banking use cases.

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We spoke about about banking, kyc uh I'll jump on how digital rupee is being uh because this is something where now, your KVs is moving from a digital to decentralized, to self-serving.

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Where this use case, we are working with the many other Banks, as well as insurance and the weltech company, so that India have a one kyc, one decentralized chemic in control of a customer, and they can reuse it for onboarding themselves to every other, Financial or regulated entities, so that every bank account which opens by a 5000 to 10 000 INR in the contest that cost will drastically reduce down to the negligible. So, let's look at how how India uh how digital Center boundary currency uh traction is coming up.

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So everybody knows this money: flower, where cbdc fits into a it's a legal tender. Cbdc is a legal tender banned by governments right. So if, when you talk about the central it's a central bank issued country, if we had currency the way we have seen other stable coins or uh uh uh other uh peer-to-peer tokens, cryptocurrencies cbdc is primarily is a legal tender reliable of a nation's Central Bank in a digital form.

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While we see there are a lot of differences between digital currency and physical rupees, why are we going ahead with the cbdc because it removes the cost of associated for a distribution right? There is a lot of cost of distribution, physical currency, and then transactions involved in digital currencies are made using computers and electronic wallets. They are not like a physical, uh physically done the way the physical currencies are involved. It enables instant transactions instant settlement. We can do with a lot of cost around that it.

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It can be centralized as well as a decentralized the way we use Technologies. So there are a lot of benefits around around a cbdc. While, while you can see you can see that current central bank is interest bearing- and there are, there are no limits. Cbdc will bring on some kind of a monetary policies around uh interest bearing or limits around that right. So this is something where cbdc brings with a lot of a lot of. uh There is no brainer around lot of advantages. Are there reduce the cost? Better, financially inclusion?

D

You will see many more new products. While we have seen savings, current lending uh microfinance kind of things, we will see many more other products coming up with the central band deal current to the world. Now there are two types of cbdc's token base or account based token West. The way we have seen many other tokens operate in a in a way web, 2 or blockchain 1.0 world, where a party one or customer they can do peer-to-peer payments into account based, we have a trail.

D

We know who is really operating under which regulated entity all about right now, token or account are given, are giving more attraction the type of cbdcs to to bring on right. You know in account, based, we know right who is there? I am therefore we know who is really doing. Transaction token is the address is anonymous and we can it can really Safeguard uh if you really bring on a token based uh things. uh Now there are two more types based upon the use, retail or wholesale right.

D

Most of the retail cbdc's worldwide are a token based right and, while most of the wholesale are uh are on the account based right. So a token where you know it's an anonymous, you can just address to address uh it's a real time and there are a lot of advantages for um uh peers right. Pf2P, retail customers like us wholesale, is something between interbank or it serves a very good stuff for uh interbank settlement medium in Indian context. We are live on a wholesale civil PC.

D

There are many other countries or they are trying like Singapore Canada, they have done Ambridge uh and there are many more other projects under bisr giving lot of traction around wholesale. So this is given by bis right. The bank for international settlement, how our cbdc should be designed defined and uh when should go, live very first step. Take care of your monetary policies.

D

This is this is the way RBI is doing coming over to new monetary policies with a viewer, for they are going to come up with the digital rupees right, Second Step, which is your architecture, whether it is going to be centralized architecture or a decentralized architecture, uh then come up with a uh then come up with your access, whether it's a token based asset or a account based access and finally, which are all those use case, say: example, cross border payment or retail payments, and so on.

D

So as a part of your concept, note say: example: RBI has come up with a very good concept. Note. It talks a lot about all of these four areas: monetary policies, architecture, technical implementation and Technical expectation and the usage right. It gives lot of confidence for every country if they really align with these kind of a guideline. uh So every cpdc has some features right. It's a low cost convertible uh recognition. Availability like there are other system level features like a good throughput availability security, interoperability, uh scalability of a uh while in Indian contact.

D

There are more than one billion people how they will operate on a cbdc while UPI is there which operates on a lot of DPS. We need to see how cbtc will be there. Then institutional features like a strong legal framework and standards, so any cptc wants to be an implemented stage. Certainly we will. We should look at. All of these features should be should be made out.

F

G

Are various architecture.

D

Models are being published in many websites. uh In a nutshell, it could be a peer-to-peer. It could be from a customer customer where your account will be at a central bank, so that is a unilateral cbdc. Instead of issuance of a fear by Central Bank can we do with the some strong bank or some of those good Banks like in Indian content like State, Bank or ICC sdfc?

D

This could be something like a intermediate cbdc out there and a synthetic cptc where, uh where we see central banks issue those fares in with the help of the some of these strong Banks.

C

D

These are all the different architecture. Models are available.

H

D

While there is a lot of things are we know now about cbdc uh bis? It has a lot of attention towards how every country should add off the cbtc ahead of a modern nation, of a finance done by big techs. So why why world is moving around cbdc? Primarily world is moving around cbdc because of a fear of crypto. These are all my personal views, fear of cryptocurrencies or for or fear of table coins.

D

The way we have seen Libras or a threat from a big text like Googles or or Facebooks or ormit, are bringing their own ecosystems and a global peer pressure. The way some of the larger countries in Asia are operating or us or EU wants to create their dominant us. So every country is now in the race of a cbdc out there. So India also want to be there so that we also be part of those interoperative CBD sets out there. Today, 2022, we could see.

D

100 plus countries are working on around cbdc, 10 plus countries are live with Jamaica or smaller countries like African great Nigeria live many countries are exploring alternate International uh payments like uh upis being spoken to with the UAE, France or uh or uh or with Singapore. Many.

A

Other uh continents.

D

Are looking at how they can use cbdc uh among the among those countries, G7 economies, U.S UK, as I hate, to take that railroad of a cbdc's 19 of a G20 countries are already there on exploration of cbdc. I would like to see how India collaborates with the all of these countries and create a better interoperable models, women of the later down the line two to three years.

D

While we talk a lot of our cptc adoption, IMF always keep attention or bring a guideline that how we should have an interoperable monetary policies, interoperable technical, architectures, I think, in my view, hyperledger and many other projects like Cactus uh at the hyper region, can give that uh that kind of a liberty to create the interoperable connects among two blockchains or among two among two cbdc's out there. uh These are the prominent cbdc retail adoption turkey Equator, so cbdc is not new.

D

It is since 1992 or 2014 many smaller countries adopted and failed like recent after 2000 2000 China is doing since 2014 or so right. It is a high time for many other countries to be part of this race uh where we could see. These are those countries that are doing wholesale cbdc example of Canada to Singapore or on you, UAE, with the uh Hong, Kong or China's, and so on, where a lot of a collaboration is happening worldwide. I think we we have seen this slide earlier uh example China's cbdc built on.

D

In my view, hyperledger or you talk about uh cptcs. This particular cbdc has gone with the multiple other platforms, and now they have done a lot of research on r3s or hyperledgers or ethereums, so that gives attention today, while you are part of a cbdc's exploration, do lot of research technology uh uh experimentation so that we should have a better cptc implementation. This is one of the successful cbtc implementation at Cambodia, backed by hyperledger so uh and I. Think 19 percent people are on this uh relevant.

E

D

In a in a in a country like Cambodia, EU has published their architecture backed by blockchain or Ledger ecosystems. So, if you look at the overall adoption, many countries have done a lot of experimentations around cbdc's, retail or wholesale things are moving very fast in these context. In Indian context, uh RBI keeps announcing, they are working on it and all of a sudden we have seen launch of a wholesale and furthermore, we will see launch of a retail Pilots. Also right, India is a big country.

D

India has India, has a more than 1.2 billion people, almost 600 million bank accounts, and maybe more than that- and there are various instruments. Various Bank types, Cooperative Banks, small Finance, Banks insurance companies, wealth companies, PSU Banks- is not going to be very easy in this context around the adoption right, so in India, the whole process started back in 2019.. uh Since then we have seen uh India kept on announcing.

D

They are coming with the cpdc, but prominently we have seen February 2022, which was the government's announced on a digital, rupee or E rupee, and we have seen October 2022 RBI has come up with the cbdc concept. Note typically talks about uh technology typically talks about the monetary policies, expectations around uh blockchain platforms or non-blockchain platform, and this is a reality. It has become a reality. November 2022.

D

They have launched a wholesale cbdc with some kind of a transactions, uh uh and uh and now they have announced that they are working with the five banks on a retail cbdc right. Why India wants to go with the cptc? There are many examples like just like other uh other other countries. uh It it provides a compliment to cash. It promotes a cashless economy, it controls monetary policies. We want to be the global race. uh That is why we need a digital rupee. uh It it hey.

D

It is going to eventually going to help gross domestic product. The value can go up two to three percent, with the right adoption of a cptcs. It will improve cross-border payment uh and it will distract the investors to do investment due to cryptase and all cryptos, and it's going to do a lot of quicker payments and life cycles. So today we imagine cptc at India only around payments or across border or wholesale, but there are a lot of use cases which I will cover within the next five minutes of which are those use cases.

D

India India will look at uh uh actual implementation just.

D

Yeah, so these are the design uh cbdc design consideration, uh it should be traceable, it should be without bank account or with bank account. It is going to be legal tender, so this is something which is mentioned in rbi's vision statement. This is a summary of RBA visual statement, although in RBI vision statement they have also announced some of those challenges could be so this. The next next RBS concept.

D

Node, should talk a lot about how they will cover up offline cbdc's, how they should cover up a better monetary policies and how they will bring on the adoption of a of a cbdc, although they will come off the technical implementation, but they need to see how cyber threads, how they will really Safeguard the CBDs and so on. So in a summary of a RBS concept, note, uh it talks a lot about expectation around strong cyber security or technical stability and resilience and sound technical governance right.

D

uh It's going to be very, very huge impact on a cbdc right. 80 percent of Indian population is on the on a banking on a there are more than 22 private sector Banks. What is these foreign Banks? 56 ruler, Banks uh many Urban, cooperative and many rural corporate events now imagine the way we have created our financial ecosystem down the line. Last 50 60 years we are going to change. It is not going to happen in one year two year. It will take its own time and it's going to be phenomenal.

D

Implementation in Indian context, so RBI constant talk about. They need a scalable platform. They need a robust uh to ensure the stability of the financial ecosystem. How Access Control should be there, how cross-platform should be there? It talks about uh the data which they will cater should have a reporting analytics mechanism. It talks about how the customer grievances will be handled with the help of a customer support uh units. It talks about the Integrations uh with other or in existing core banking platforms.

D

It talks about how we will take care of a fraud monitoring, so RBI constipated talk a lot about a technology choice or technology platform, Choice Also.

D

It talks about architecture, considering architecture should be centralized or decentralized, or it should be a zero downtime, because uh because there are a lot of practice around UPI right but UPA, if goes down right, how it will be possible, we may sustain, but our cbdc goes down, it will be in Havoc, so it is going to be very, very important to have a right architecture for cptc transaction per second could be, could be into range of 20 20 000 to 30 000 TPS I am talking uh lean design. uh How do we?

D

How do we take care of the whole architecture around cyber attacks and followed by a mission, critical approach? So this is just a summary of uh RBI uh RBS concept. Note on a technology side, I have not covered the monetary side uh because it will be covered by the functional Financial experts out there today is uh India is a quite ready on digital rupee, because India is already sitting on railroads like aadhar Digi Locker to onward a customer, decentralized decentralized kyc, like projects will really.

E

D

uh Digital rupee, uh uh to get uh into reality account aggregator is going to help digital rupee to bring on a right consent model. So India Today sitting on a lot of railroads which will make tomorrow's deal rupee.

A

Reality, so why do we need blockchain in.

D

Digital rupee right, so it will really help better efficiency and a security. The way RBI concept nodes talk about. How can we reduce uh reconciliation settlement costs so DLT helps out there right. It brings on lot of transparency and audit Trails DLT.

G

Helps out there.

D

G

D

Smart contract can really helpful to implement a token based cbdc out there or a programmable money which, which Concepts not talk about. So it's.

A

Very very important.

D

For every country, some of the countries has approached non uh non-dlt approach and eventually they move and I move aired with the additional digital rupee bag or their cptc, backed by a blockchain.

D

So our Readiness, we Spade, we have a comprehensive, so every country is ready if they have these four aspects: comprehensive digital infrastructure, where we have as a country like India, well functioning central banks. Rbi is one of the strong regulator, effective governance. We have seen how robust is the banking ecosystem all about with all of these different banking models and a better Financial technology knowledge uh at the way.

D

We have seen huge knowledge experts companies out there with all these four aspects in digital rupees, geared up to really build on a better uh this rupee on all these four layers, which we have gathered from a bis International settlement, the architecture, better, monetary policy, better architecture, how do you accent and which are those use cases? Better? Monetary policies, the architecture centralized decentralized, which are those user access, account or token base and finally use of a digital rupee? A.

C

Retail or a whole specificity so.

D

Friends when you talk about use cases, we'll build those cbdc right in inform a digital rupee, and there are this some guidelines given by bis or some of those experts out there so create those user stories. So in an Indian context, there are many user stories which will come up and say: hey: let's build digital rupee for real-time settlement, helicopter mini operations, transaction towards the less cash Society tracking, the currency and improved cross-border, so I will not be surprised.

D

We'll have a solar, Point buyed by India's digital rupee down there in Rajasthan we can have a milk coin which operates in a commodity or ecosystems in Gujarat to really Safeguard all this corruption or man in Middle, things which just operates in them in Gujarat or a sugar cane coin in Maharashtra, or a Bitcoin for a farmer for a Punjab or a direct debit transfer schemes, which is a government, can really direct debit direct, give this cash or benefits to the wallets of the customers. So today it takes it's a manual process.

D

Lot of intermediate fraud does happen right, so SBI has tried with the European successfully and I. Think next way it can operate in online and offline model. Also India has come up with a business correspondent model in 2011 and asked all the psu2 onboard villages to create a better Financial inclusion. It has a lot of operational challenges. I have personally been to many villages and I have seen literacy, financial literacy having right infrastructure, internet I, think cptc or digital rupee coming up with a better business correspond model will be a boon offline payments.

D

How can we have a, although India is solving these problems with the project called bharatnet uh across all the villages coming with a lot of smart cities? Also? So, but still, if you go back offline, it should work offline. So RBS uh concept note talks about uh offline payments also or you talk about a retailers of SME payments. Today we see lot of QR codes out there in the with the help of a phone pay, Google places. So on so similar way, you will see how SME can accept through the wallets of the retail customers.

D

We could see these kind of adoptions So eventually. Certainly it's going to take a lot of time, but in a nutshell, it is going to happen and India cbdc will really help country to boost the GDP two to three percent. That's gonna be happen, and while we do talk a lot about the digital rupee, there are a lot of uh guidance or some kind of a suggestions. The way we have seen how other countries are doing right, some of the best practices. So let's look at How Country specific conditions.

D

So, while we look at our country specific condition, there are countries like Nigeria or Bahamas. They couldn't anticipate their country specific conditions. There were some failure, impacts right. So let's look learn from other cptc implementation. The financial stability of your country is very, very important. While you come up with the with a better cbdc model, Bahamas has onboarded, but they have not placed a limit to the uh Holdings of cptc later on. They uh change that privacy concerns uh trust equilibrium. How can we create trust today?

D

Today, bank has created trust among the customers and it has created over a couple of years how all of a sudden you want to create that trust with some kind of a digital, rupee or Iran or a by force or some kind of a literacy program, is going to be very, very important right.

C

D

Because uh right.

C

Architecture for a larger.

D

Ecosystem larger countries, interoperable will give lot of a boon for cbdc will function CV disease. The imfs keeps on telling talking about the collaboration, keep collaborating technology Partners should collaborate.

C

D

Should come up and create a lot of projects happy to see how hyper luxury is coming with lot of ecosystems around the cbdc's uh IMF keeps on saying, apart from a monetary policy collaboration collaborative technology interability between two blockchain Fabrics. So these are some lessons from various other cbdc's. uh There are further more considerations considering uh design aspect, privacy aspect, so these are all from some of those existing cbdc implementation, global politics. You speak about US, dollar or China's. Iran cbdc is not new. It was always there and can be implemented without blockchain.

D

Also like we have seen a bank of Finland done in 1992 or a equator done in 2014.. So there are a lot of things are happening, cbdc's right and we need to see how we can really choose a technology platform. In my view, personal view, the way RBI is announced, their technology expectation. They have announced various others aspect around the architecture. There are many. Other platforms are available right.

D

So when you enter into rupee or Europe concept note, this could be the standard of some kind of architecture uh for customers or merchants or wallets to access offline payments back in a cbdc uh integrated with the bank system, whether it's a center or some of the power Banks and backed up by some of the wallet ecosystems or existing blockchain ledgers, and so on. So with the same repetition. These are also features of a cbdc. In my view, many countries have done lot of a lot of experimentations right.

D

If you see China has done experimentations with the question marks. In my view, I know they have done it on hyper Legion. There.

A

Are other countries.

D

Like Uruguay Ukraine Bahamas Eastern Caribbean announced it is on a on a hyperledger, or there are some countries wholesale wholesale, uh which we have seen like Canada or Singapore, or a Thailand Hong Kong hkm. We are doing uh I. Think people have done a lot of things on R3, codas and eventually moved on to the hyperledgers and so on.

D

So in my view, many countries have done DLT based non-dlt-based e Corona was non-delty now slowly they are going on on a dlt-based uh like Canada Singapore Thailand, it's a DLT base, so it could be DLT non-delt, based uh just to learn how what is cptc. It can start with the non-delt, but eventually you need to create a DLT base, because most of the countries are creating that interoperable DLT back model right, like people, people Bank of China EU. So this is something what they cover. What kind of a consensus mechanism? What is the throughput?

D

They are requiring right, whether is a dld non-dlt base, how they are uh uh creating conversion of their cbdcs to the existing their traditional ecosystems. So in in a nutshell, in a nutshell, what we have seen globally blockchain platform Choice as a hyper laser. Why? Because, if you talk about account to account base or Enterprise ecosystems, a private Enterprise, we will always look at the hyperledger kind of for ecosystem.

D

Furthermore, you want to do a token based hyperplasia supports chain code contracts, which can be really relatively very good ecosystems out there right, While, others, others other ecosystem, even Embry just tried with the ethereum and some kind of some kind of uh Hot Stuff bft consensus, but eventually now they will also it's not a.

D

The throughput expectation is not really meeting out there uh like how hyperledger Innova is implemented in Cambodia, hyper religious has now equipped with a lot of other cbdc implementation on the community hyper laser Cactus, which can give a connector between two cptcs as a business model for a for a film test. While there are other platforms, I look at largely on a high, however Ledger Fabric and overall Innovations out at the various communities, will bring very good.

H

D

Ecosystem today, at a block stack, we are also bringing on this FIS reference architecture. However, cbdc should have a wallet and various other services. We are embarking to build same kind of a model with a with a hyper laser with all of these components. uh So that's in that's in um uh that's a journey for all of us, uh so I think. Thank you so much in interest of your time. uh We can stop here. uh So thank you.

D

So much hyperledger uh Financial Market special interest group uh and uh Julian for bringing me here to talk around uh why blockchain is needed, how India is adopting blockchain, uh how digital rupees becoming reality with the best practices with the RBI supports and companies like npca and the banks, and uh thanks to all of our partners, who has even lot of info to this presentation, settlement, autograph, New, Street, uh Zee, Snapper and so on. Yeah. So thank you so much.

A

Excellent, thank you. Thank you. Do you want to stop the presentation now and then, let's move, we can, even though we reach time I think we can have a little bit of a q, a session yeah and vipin. Are you there as well somewhere amongst all these great people,.

B

Yes, yes, there.

A

I am there I? Am it was awesome prasanna? So maybe we can have a cute. We've got a few questions, but maybe if people put their hands up, we can bring them out to ask questions, maybe just for another five or ten minutes. What do you think flipping or maybe vipin you could do you have any questions you'd like to start with.

B

Well, I, don't even know where to start that was a amazing barrage of information. So the first question is, of course well that stuff is going to be available for sharing by people yeah. Many people have already uh asked that question and we'll put it up anyway. I'll withdraw and have someone else talk about things, because I don't want to hold up the.

A

Yes, any questions from anybody. I I'm, trying to look through I have I have there's a lot in the chat.

F

A

F

Right, Julian hi: this is Balaji from Bangalore. How are you excellent.

A

Good to have me.

F

Back thanks, yeah I present a great presentation. uh uh My question, I I, should actually put it on chat as well. um So if you look at it most of the uh popular projects, people of banks are here are really experimented with are around uh trade, finance and also cross-border transfers. So my question to you was: what what have you seen the trend around it is that is that, being a really a good exercise? Has there been any good.

B

F

On investments in that area, uh for for banks- or this has just been um uh been- there done- that types.

D

Yeah I think it's a very good question. uh The way we have seen initial Infosys have done some kind of a trade Finance or a cross-border per se. How ICICI or or icsa done with the Imran, simply uh uh so I think is looking at the last four or five years of History. It is not picked up, but the RBA Innovation Hub has come up with the trade finance that, to start with, the lcpg kind of uh use.

D

Cases is going to pick up so what they have asked internally uh to create a process once they create process that govern is created. We can certainly add offer out of a trade Finance camera for ecosystem uh in uh in Indian content. There are three regulated trade, uh and few of them are coming on on a blockchain aligned with access bank, and we are also hand holding some of the non-regulated trade uh within uh like say, example like invoice, discounting and others uh so I think see. Blockchain is a foundational text.

D

um It takes its own time, but I think next, two to three years. uh I think these railroads will be on on on a blockchain. Now talking about a trade Finance is the largest and biggest use case to bring on adoption, and there are a lot of efforts being done by IBM and many other trade chains worldwide. uh I think it's eventually slowly slowly getting adapted, because it's not a direct connected to the customers or retail customers. So down the line you will see. Direct connected to the retail customers are also now picking up.

D

So in a nutshell, uh it's a gradual process. People want to do it, but the governance process. Alignment of a mindset is something which we need to look at. How we'll bring on our actual output.

F

Yeah sure thank you. Yeah.

C

B

So there are two hands up: the first one was Paras.

B

You have anything to ask or I.

A

Think it needs to unmute.

E

B

E

B

Can hear you now.

E

Yeah yeah uh our prasanna I just wanted to ask whether RBI is going to launch cbdc on December 1st or it is going to be the uh by next year. April.

D

So uh this is a.

E

Friendly conversation, yeah.

D

So I can answer friendly. So since we have seen, uh government has announced digital rupee has to come this year, so uh uh so we need to see uh although announcements are happening, but the actual adoption of uh cbdc is a big game right. So we have done some transaction on wholesale, followed by retail agency started. This is going to be very gradual process. There are a lot of financial instruments lot of monetary policies to be changed around various instruments, deposits and many other areas right.

D

So it's going to be exercise and slowly slowly, we'll cover one area down the line secondary third area, but it has to be start with some go live in my view. I think that go live should happen soon. The next year.

E

Okay, thanks thanks person.

B

G

Hi uh thanks president for the nice presentation, it has a lot of information in a short duration, yeah.

D

G

Yeah so yeah. uh Basically, my question is like uh basically hyperledger fabric like uh how many uh transactions it can actually support are, in fact, like someone has asked in the Q a that, oh like what would be the uh uh requirement of transactions per second for India and like what would be the latencies uh in terms of response times. Would it be in the UPI scale or like it would be much better.

D

Cbdc expectation in India will be at least five times UPN, so.

F

D

So that's what? Because UPI operates only around payments right.

C

D

Cbdc will you bring on not only payments but many other use cases? We spoke about around DBT BC models or community community models so and many more instruments will also come as a form of uh like microfinance and micropayments and micro lending and many more others, and many more iot devices will also will be riding on the cpdc right, backed by some kind of identity or some kind of account. So I think in my view, it's not only payment, but many other areas. Tps will be uh today.

D

I think you in my capacity UPA uh for 15 minutes, can handle around uh 15, 000 TPS or so uh it has reached to up to like 5000, uh TPS or so, but I think expectation for India in to begin with could be uh 20, 000 TPS, maybe more than that.

D

As far as this concern now coming back for a hyperledger or why not some some other right, so hyperledger has its own uh uh private permission Network and, as far as a throughput is a concerned, it can be between tuned right with a lot of other. We have seen at least in our lab how we can really use hyperledger to do that throughput, although we don't have that data set to really handle in order to test it out.

D

In my way, today's capacity there are many platforms are available, but looking at a rbi's concept, node and their expectations around not only throughput but other areas like Governors, better scalability and better security right permission. So I think this is one of the prominent answer. We and many countries are I. Think I'll not be surprised if, tomorrow, somebody in uh India announced yeah hyper religion is a choice uh to do with the uh any of those cbdc, implementations, retail or a retail or uh or a wholesale, because hybrid religious does support smart contract.

D

Also, we can have a tokens also on top of that, and we can certainly see how we can yeah so I think it's a process of a research uh to see experimentation and to go idea.

G

Thank you, prasanna.

H

B

C

Hey hi prasanna, that was extremely insightful, so uh my question was: do you foresee any use cases in the Securities Market, because we mostly discussed around the banking domain and I recently read that NSC and BSC are also evaluating it? So.

D

Yeah yeah so I think there are some use cases in Securities and uh the some of the companies which I showcased. So there is a company called intent. They are doing uh this uh use cases on Securities on blockchain, uh even uh digital age is doing some of the use cases on a blockchain, so I think there is an also wave and it's a good Market to do- have a uh uh use cases on Securities, yeah.

H

I'll mute myself.

G

You can hear me now high percent everything.

H

Was fine, you presented very well and it everything got well and I could understand certain things. You.

D

Can hear me now right, everyone.

H

Can hear yes, yes, okay,.

D

H

My question was because well we have see it's not a competition kind of thing here. I'm just telling can does RBA has a solution which can clear I mean not tpsp lot of properties talk about TPS TPS, you know transition per second, but that has no meaning. It has to be the transaction clearing time and the block anytime.

I

A

H

Correct is: is RBA having a solution. My simple question to you and all: can they do they have a solution today which can handle 50 million transactions in 24 hours, T minus zero think can any can any blockchain handle that 50 million transactions in 24 hours, clearing I'm talking about wallet to wallet transfers, whether it's individual intermediaries, Banks or anyone or the individuals.

H

Otherwise, you know what will happen. Is the people will start? Only talking about piloting pilot in every country is just doing the piloting, but what is the commercial scale solution which and every country needs.

D

So I think, in my view, the way npca, which is a prominent company and the payments are for RBI. They have done some experientation around a product called vajra, so wire was an attention towards how can we reduce the settlement cycle? uh It has started in 2018 and so on.

D

So it is not in public, uh but I am sure they are working on these kind of infrastructure to be built right, although we always say that, uh apart from payment experience, there is another experience which is operational settlement, reconciliation, so I think this is very good uh question. Tomar only time will answer how we are really bring on that kind of expectation.

H

Yeah, no, no, my question is there: a technology available in the world which can handle this or things will evolve, is fine, but as of today, is there a public public Ledger available, DLT kind of because see? Is there a system available in the world as of today, a simple question? Actually, can anyone do this I'm saying 550 million transactions in a 24 hours, T minus zero?

H

Otherwise you know people will keep piloting piloting, like others are doing, and a lot of people are following those piloting systems and my simple question: I: don't need anything else and.

D

That was a great question. Yeah I am appreciating your questions, so things may not be available right now, but.

H

No, no, no, sorry, no sorry, I mentoring to the world phq has developed the solution so to the RBI. We can clear 50 million transactions in 24 hours. That is already there, and we have shown that we are launching in one week's time. It's not the I'm, just not intervening here, I'm just telling the reality. People should know there is a solution available. If anybody wants to see the proof, we can show that okay 50 million transactions in 24 hours, that will be the challenge to other blockchain Industries.

H

So please, beware: there is a solution available in the world today for a commercial scale, cbdc kind of thing. It is there already, but it's not already shown to the guys- and they have seen it already I'm just telling the world and it's a DLT public Ledger system. That was my question and I could get the answer. There is no other system available in the world which can handle a commercial scale cbdc, because where people can have to Min trillions, then transfer to the banks, then the banks will transfer to the intermediaries.

H

Then the bodies they will transfer cross-border other payments and finally go to the individual who is using it kind of a UPS system? I mean that's, not my thing, but it means there is no system available in the world today which can handle is commercial scale, cbdc system right, very simple, simple question: no.

D

No I think good. That's what I said. It's very good question, although sometimes we don't immediately promote right by saying yeah, so I am aware. Phq is there no.

H

No, no, no, we have this solution. We show to RBI, certainly you know and I'm not promoting here, because we.

E

Are not interested.

H

That's why I'm asking I was curious. You know I was curious to know because you have been connecting with a lot of people. I was just curious. Is there any other solution available, so that was my idea was to know that actually yeah.

D

Let's connect offline uh uh happy to meet you in person also, if you are around in Bangalore today, so I think we already uh texted each other. So looking.

H

Forward so I'm fortunate. Fortunately we have the solution which can I am telling openly to the world. 50 million.

B

Okay, yeah yeah, please uh I mean um since you asked the world. Maybe the world will answer, because there are, um you know L2, Solutions and other ways of increasing the throughput. Even in hyperledger fabric they had several tests run when you say, can it do it in the real world? You know it's always going to be a challenge to put a system of that scale into the real world, even phq, I'm sure uh you know, because it's not yet in production.

B

So, let's uh let's uh say that you know everybody is thinking about these kind of scales uh and people have different. Like somebody just put up a thing saying: ZK Roll-Ups, you know most of them are like Layer Two Solutions, uh which are not directly writing but snapshotting uh once in a while at for security to the blockchain. But anyway uh we have already here Julian. What do you think you? You want others to intervene or ask questions.

A

Yeah people ask questions. We also we have an ebook and cbdc. We have them in Nigeria. There's many kind of there are production. The cbdc's but I see yeah and yeah in terms of that Pacific Performance, I, I, I, think I. Think vipin answered that right. So uh but it's great we're we're it's great to see lots of Technologies out there lots of people trying to solve these problems right, it's uh um very cool, so any any other questions right because we actually are um we're.

A

This is the first time we've gone so much over time and I think for someone that just speaks to your great presentation right um and I. Think as Gandhi did you have one more question or are we going to now? Call it uh an end right.

E

A

G

So one more question I had uh to personalize, basically like he mentioned about milk coin and wheat coin, so basically I'm curious on who is going to issue these coins.

D

Yeah I think a very good question and I think. Similarly, uh if say, example, if you want to do a contributor rollout, instead of that, we can create these kind of uh so called same Digital, P renamed as a milk coin, or some kind of a wheat point or a sugarcane point and operate it into some of the communities.

D

If you go and study the whole ecosystems in Gujarat or in Punjab a lot of manual interventions, although some some of the transistors are backed by rupee, also again same reconcile settlement come to the picture as a dream. We can always look at how, instead of having some uh some uh some coin, we keep launching right so same uh milk or same wheat coin can be issued by some of the banks right.

D

The way we will come up with the the whole structure, so it can be issued uh against the Commodities to these uh uh customers. So, although it will be, uh it will be like three of these models right peer-to-peer or a in through some banks. Some local banks, say example in Gujarat, some identifying some large local bank. So that's how it can be issued to be operated uh in that whole model.

G

D

Was the only concept I said this could be? I will not should not be surprised, we'll see some kind of a search use cases yeah.

G

Yeah. Thank you very much.

A

Yeah, okay, I think we'll call it right now. Thank you, uh prasanna. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone uh for for attending and all those great questions. um uh If, if you want to continue uh the whole point, this is debate right, uh so we do have a Wiki.

A

um uh You go to wikihilator.org and you can go directly to the financial markets uh uh Sig and see information there we're going to do more and I think the song we're going to do more with you in this this part of the world, which is very, very exciting. uh Thank you very much.

D

Thank you Julian and.

C

uh Sir also I think uh through.

D

This through this conversion, we come to know the whole overall level of expertise available and what's the next level challenge. Some of the questions certainly give kind of a moment of motivation for me to get into more.

G

A

You understand.

C

D

So that's how it works. So thank you so much uh for this opportunity, yeah.

A

It's an absolute pleasure, and- and thank you, everyone do you have any final words sayings. It must be nearly midnight there on Thanksgiving.

B

Yeah yeah yeah, yeah I I hear music coming from downstairs, so it's probably time for me to start dancing um anyway, um the it was a wonderful conversation, but I think uh you know we probably need to slow down a little bit and then talk talk about uh you know they way things are developing globally. You know why are certain countries more willing to experiment? Why are some not you know what is leapfrogging?

B

You know what you know, what kind of thing will uh having all those uh rails have effects on a very rapidly expanding digital economy, because if you don't have a digital identity system, then- and you bootstrap- something like in the U.S with the social security number, which is a big mess, and everybody is afraid that the government will somehow Implement A system that is going to take over your lives.

B

You know so that's the fear, but in India we have other and of course the Supreme Court has already said in the case of Adar that privacy should be implemented. Now we have to see how that will be done already. You know we have a system and how will that system be dialed back or changed, and how will that integrate with all of this? It's a wonderful time to be alive.

B

There's a lot of a lot of interesting things happening.

A

Basically yeah, thank you thank you and maybe Canada who's. This co-chair of our Indian chapter to see kamlesh Pub on the camera. Do you want to say anything, camera yeah all right there. You are.

I

So yeah I think I, think I, think I think a person and I keep interacting in in the last few months. We are meeting everywhere in different cities.

I

What person are doing in the Indian Community to talk about the blockchain and spreading the blocks and awareness I think this kind of leaders going to be maybe the end of Canada in the two to start that opting technology and like because in the blockchain thing first, you know to make some kind of awareness and some kind of education. Then people can implement it because it's very hard to understand what it is.

I

And uh so that's why I think and in the like, this India blockchain Forum, which we started uh is a group in India is now is a well recognized. Is there any kind of non-profit organization we set up? So all is good if I had to talk about the blockchain adoption and uh bringing awareness in the ecosystem.

A

Thank you I think we're gonna wrap there and.

B

A

Take care, and uh and look after yourselves, all right, take care and look forward to this conversation and interact on our mailing list in every every other way. All right take care. Everybody.

B

Thank you, Julian thank.

A

C

G