►
Description
Jim Cunha has been active in the Payments space at the Boston Fed for years. He runs Project Hamilton, having previously worked on ACH, he is the head of Secure Payments and Fintech. opencbdc-tx is the first open-sourced CBDC sponsored by a central bank, the github avatar of Project Hamilton. Jim may have some wisdom to contribute on the Executive Order of the President and the on-going working groups at opencbdc.
More info: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CMSIG/2022-04-22
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Discord: https://discord.gg/rVCn4j7UFd
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
Webinars: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/webinars
Events: https://www.hyperledger.org/events
Vendor Directory: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/vendor-directory
Subscribe to the Hyperledger Newsletter: https://www.hyperledger.org/newsletter
Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
#Hyperledger #Blockchain
License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
B
I
think
stable
coins
have
a
great
promise,
but
I
think
stable
coins
are
not
all
created
equal
and
there
are
issues
with
a
number
of
them,
some
of
which
most
people
don't
understand,
and
then
the
far
right
we've
got
central
bank
digital
currency,
a
liability
of
these
the
fed,
in
this
case,
both
wholesale
and
retail,
doesn't
have
to
be
delineated.
That
way,
but
most
payment
systems
are
delineated
between
wholesale
and
retail,
and
so
there's
also
a
lot
of
misinformation
about
what
cbdc
is.
So
it's
not
necessarily
built
on
a
particular
technology.
B
I
get
a
lot
of
questions
about.
Will
it
be
anonymous
because
cash
is
anonymous
and
you
know
I
don't
believe
we
should
build
something.
That's
based
on
a
property,
that's
based
on
paper,
and
so
also
people
conflate
bitcoin
with
cbdc.
You
know
we
are
not
going
to
create
a
cbdc
that
is
mined
by
the
public.
That's
not
how
any
central
bank
would
at
least
begin
we're
not
going
to
have
proof
of
work,
so
we're
not
going
to
consume
the
energy
of
ireland
or
iceland.
B
Whatever
the
example
is
in
the
course
of
the
year
by
by
burning
and
minting
money,
it's
also
if
we,
if
we
actually
created
a
cbdc,
it's
not
to
eliminate
cash,
at
least
the
retail
one.
It's
also
not
a
pianistia.
It's
not
going
to
solve
all
the
world's
problems
and
I'm
happy
to
talk
about
any
of
these,
but
I'll
keep
going.
As
far
as
why
we're
doing
this
research.
Now
we
actually
started
back
in
2016..
B
B
We
all
know
facebook
announced
libra,
which
changed
its
name
to
diem
and
then
was
sold
off
to
silvergate
bank,
which
hasn't
yet
launched
anything
jp
morgan
has
jpm.
Coins,
stablecoin
is
growing,
so
these
are
all
important
things
to
have
central
banks
to
be
thinking
about
the
implications
both
of
these
products,
but
also
the
potential
for
a
cbdc
in
another's
home,
but,
most
importantly,
back
in
march
of
2020.
B
There
are
two
bills
that
were
part
of
the
cares
act
which
was
in
the
us
was
our
coded
relief
bill
and
they
would
have
directed
the
fed
to
build
a
retail
cbdc
with
accounts
for
citizens,
and
so
when
congress
starts
to
act
out,
neither
of
these
made
the
final
bill.
But
when
carnegie
starts
to
act,
it's
important
that
we
be
ready
to
react
to
whatever
those
laws
might
be.
There's
been
more
legislation
introduced.
There's
a
number
of
bills
being
considered.
B
B
There
are
a
million
issues
that
have
to
be
worked
out,
so
we
had
to
start
now
and
what
we've
done
is
the
major
part
of
our
plan
is:
is
we
call
project
hamilton
which
is
joint
research
with
mit,
so
with
technology
research
we're
building
a
research
model?
I
call
it
a
prototype
because
that's
what
it
really
is,
but
it's
a
research
model
to
say:
can
we
build
something
that
works
and
not
just
connect?
I
mean
anybody
can
build
a
system.
B
You
know
move
some
data
around
call
it
money
and
say
they
did
a
poc
and
that's
worth
very
little.
Can
you
do
it
at
scale?
And
so
we
try
to
do
this
at
scale
with
real
world
problems
we're
trying
to
solve.
We
have
various
design
options.
This
is
research,
so
we're
not
just
doing
one
we're
doing
multiple,
we're
technology
agnostic.
B
We
look
at
dlt,
but
we
also
look
at
other
technologies
and
we
recently-
and
hopefully
people
have
read
it
published
our
joint
technology
research
paper
on
february
3rd
and
did
something
the
fed
has
never
done,
which
is
basically
issued
an
open
source
license
with
mit
for
the
code
open
cbdc,
and
I
understand
that
that
a
lot
of
people
here
have
have
looked
into
that.
It's
also
important
to
know
that
no
decisions
been
made
to
move
to
production,
but
not
even
to
pilot
like
a
lot
of
people
asking.
B
When
can
I
hook
up
to
it?
When
can
we
test?
When
can
we
pilot
with
you,
and
I
don't
have
even
an
approval-
to
move
to
pilot
and
obviously
there'd
be
a
significant
change
from
just
a
research
effort,
but
obviously
you
know
could
be
a
step
along
the
way,
but
not
determined
yet
so
step.
One
of
project
hamilton
was
to
build
the
core
engine,
so
this
is
the
the
core
engine
fermenting
and
storing
and
moving
the
money
at
scale
in
a
resilient
and
safe
way.
B
So
our
goal
was
100
000
transactions
per
second
I've
been
asked.
Where
did
that
number
come
from,
and
I
said
we
think
it's
the
the
sum
of
all
the
credit
card
transactions
in
the
world.
Every
second
seemed
like
a
good
place.
To
start,
we
were
trying
to
start
at
some
place
really
high
and
aggressive,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
we
could
work
at
scale,
and
we
know
that
system
slow
down
when
you
add
more
technology
to
them
so
settlement
under
five
seconds,
resiliency,
very
robust.
B
You
know
highly
resilient
now.
This
is
resiliency
from
technology
problems
generally
network
issues,
not
necessarily
a
full-blown
resiliency
to
cyber
attack,
denial
service,
etc.
We
have
not
gone
that
far
in
privacy,
just
some
basic
privacy,
how
we
built
the
identification
system
phase
two,
which
is
the
next
phase,
we're
done
with
phase
one
we'll
talk
about
that
phase.
Two
is
getting
into
different
policy
choices
and
design
choices,
I'll
be
very
clear:
I'm
the
technology
guy,
I'm
not
the
policy
guy.
B
How
do
you
try
to
maximize
privacy
and
still
catch
the
bad
guys,
a
challenging
problem
even
today,
programmability?
Should
it
be
smart
money
should
logic
be
within
the
money?
Should
it
be
external
to
the
money,
interoperability
and
cross-border
key
issues
for
any
payment
system
and
accessibility
in
an
offline
and
we're
doing
these
tests
for
two
reasons?
B
One
because
when
you
add
code
to
the
system
you'll
slow
it
down,
so
are
we
slowing
it
down?
Are
we
adding
new
attack
vectors?
Are
we
slowing
down
the
speed
per
second
or
on
the
speed
of
settlement
or
also
through
our
throughput,
but
also
these
conflict
privacy
and
compliance?
As
I
mentioned,
they
conflict,
and
so
are
there
ways
of
looking
at
the
newest
two
technologies
to
try
to
solve
some
problems
that
exist
today.
B
Aml
counterterrorist
financing
is
really
hard,
not
overly
effective.
My
words
banks
hate
to
do
it.
It's
expensive.
It's
a
high
liability
and
that's
the
model
you
have
today
that
banks
do
it
or
other
payment
system
providers,
so
other
ways
of
thinking
about
this
differently
with
technology
in
the
world
of
crypto.
B
There's
something
called
the
zero
knowledge
proof
which
allows
you
to
examine
data
for
particular
conditions
like
is
this
recipient
on
a
bad
guy
list
or
without
seeing
the
data
and
I'm
oversimplifying
it,
but
could
that
be
used
in
the
cbdc
to
help
solve
some
problems
so
we're
starting
to
work
on
these?
Now
we
can
talk
more
about
them
later,
but
that's
the
next
phase
and
phase
two
really
is
endless.
It's
going
to
continue
as
long
as
we
have
research.
We
want
to
do
into
this
particular
set
of
topics
so
hamilton
phase.
B
B
B
So
we
wouldn't
need
open,
blockchain
type
consensus
protocols
like
group
report,
which
obviously
simplified
a
lot.
We
do
have
consensus
methods,
we
have
ways
of
replicating
data,
but
not
like
along
the
lines
of
cryptocurrency.
So
here
the
results
we
end
up
with
two
core
engines.
We
had
had
multiple
along
the
way
one
called
the
atomizer
one
called
two-phased
commit.
B
Now
the
atomizer
we
had
about
170
000
transactions
per
second
was
99
under
two
with
two
phase
commit.
We
had
1.7
million
transactions
per
second
with
finality
under
one
second,
we
stopped
at
1.7
only
because
we
ran
out
of
resources
in
the
aws
cloud
structure
we
had
and
we
know
we
could
have
gone
faster
than
that.
You
say
well,
why
would
you
go
faster?
Well,
we'd
go
faster
because
when
you
go
faster
and
break
it,
you
learn
something.
B
B
It
relies
on
public
private
key
peers
to
identify
who
the
user
is
so
right.
Now
we
are
able
to
link
to
an
identity,
but
the
identity
is
not
part
of
the
transaction
per
se,
just
like
in
bitcoin.
If
you
understand
bitcoin,
the
private
key
is
really
what
you
use
to
identify
who
owns
the
bitcoin?
Not
the
I
mean
the
public
keys,
not
the
private
key
and
also
rely
on
unspent
tokens.
Utxo
models
versus
accounts.
We
don't
have
accounts,
there's
nothing
that
says
jim
crania
has
a
hundred
dollars.
B
It
could
be
a
a
hunk
of
money,
say
twenty
dollars
that
says
jim
cooney
has
20
here,
one
unspent
token
he's
got
25
here.
He's
got
55
here,
so
three
different
types
of
three
different
pieces
of
data
that
represent
three
hunks
of
money
that
I
have
and
if
I
want
to
give
it
say,
give
karen
ten
dollars
I'll.
Take
the
20
utxo
destroy
it,
create
a
10
for
me
and
a
10
for
karen
and
that's
how
bitcoin
works
and
then,
as
I
said,
we're
very
flexible
and
so
in
a
nutshell,
that's
what
we
built.
B
This
design
we
asked
district.
We
are
still
researching
whether
the
order,
the
transaction
matters
we've
got.
Lawyers
and
some
regulators
looking
at
it,
and
if
anybody
in
the
audience
has
a
use
case
for
the
retail
where
it
matters
our
thought
was
you
know
it's
not
like
an
account
where
you
could
kite
or
you
can
send
multiple
transactions
on
the
same
money.
You
have
to
spend
the
money
discreetly,
so
each
piece
of
money
has
to
be
spent
discreetly
and
you
can't
spend
it
more
than
once.
C
B
C
D
C
B
So
yeah
it
gets
into
the
architecture.
So
it's
a
multi-tier
architecture
and
I
should
have
said
earlier:
if
you
go,
if
you
google
youtube
mit
present,
I
forget
I'll,
give
you
the
the
link
to
it
later,
but
we
have
like
an
hour
and
a
half
presentation.
We
go
deep
dive
into
the
architecture,
including
each
component,
each
layer
and
what
happens
the
first
time
it
comes
in
it
has
it's
a
layer
that
says
this
is
a
valid
transaction.
B
And
so
here's
just
a
little
bit
on
the
open,
cbdc
we've
got.
You
know,
I'm
not
an
open,
cbdc
expert,
but
someone
who
may
it
you
know
mit
actually
maintains
the
open
source
license
for
bitcoin
and
our
license
is
based
on
the
same
approach
and
the
same
structure.
So
there's
a
there's
different
connections.
Here
you
have
in
your
presentation
which
obviously
karen
can
send
out
to
you.
We
have
people
that
are
constantly
manning.
This
we're
creating
work
groups
that
can
dive
into
individual
problems
to
say,
let's
figure
out.
B
Let's
just
say
we
had
to
solve
to
double
spin
we'd
say:
let's
figure
out
how
to
solve
double
spend
under
the
existing
model.
We
get
people
starting
to
work
and
contribute
on
that,
and
eventually
it
could
create
code
that
would
make
its
way
into
the
into
the
github
for
this
product.
So
we're
we're
hoping
that
people
will
actually
contribute
and,
like
I
said,
the
whole
process
in
the
open
source
world
how
that
works.
B
We
haven't
we're
really
thinking
about
this
point,
but
we
think
there's
ways
that
we
can
work
together
even
as
central
banks
in
ways
that
may
you
know
be
be
open
to
the
public,
but
we're
still
working
out
those
deep
bills,
just
one
more
piece:
that's
project
hamilton
in
a
nutshell,
as
far
as
what
we
do
with
mit
we've
got
some
of
the
great
we
have
great
developers
on
my
team.
My
architect
actually
was
the
architect
for
usc
us
usdc
circles.
B
Contributions
to
stable
coins
and
other
developers
from
mit
and
mit's
group
has
one
of
the
core
developers
for
bitcoin
is
on
the
team
that
contributes
to
our
code.
But
as
much
as
we
are,
we
don't
believe
we
have
the
only
solution.
So
we're
also
looking
at
open
blockchain
solutions,
solano
and
others
that
seem
to
have
some
promise
for
speed.
B
Hyperledger
variations
are
on
our
list
to
look
at,
but
we're
also
looking
at
private
sector
actors
to
say:
are
there
any
solutions
that
people
have
built
that
could
meet
our
needs?
This
is
not
a
buy
versus
build
decision.
This
is
really
just
to
gather
more
information
about,
what's
out
there
to
say
in
case
at
some
point
in
the
future,
if
we
were
asked
to
move
forward
what
would
be
the
best
option,
what
we
built,
maybe
what
we
built
on
top
of
a
different
blockchain,
or
maybe
a
private
sector
actor.
B
So
that's
that's
where
we
are.
This
is
not
for
public
publication.
It's
really
just
to
understand
what
these
platforms
can
do
and
learn
from
them
and
then
eventually,
once
we
get
to
a
point,
if
we
do
to
pilot
who
can
we
work
with
out
of
these
groups?
You
know
that
might
have
some.
You
know
some
things
to
contribute.
D
B
B
We're
also
trying
to
understand.
How
can
we
talk
to
technology
companies
beyond
just
what
we're
doing
in
hamilton
to
understand
what
they're
doing
what's
the
landscape
and
so
there'll
be
more
there'll,
be
more
consultation
coming
out
of
the
board
to
technology
companies,
but
trying
to
do
it
in
a
way?
That
is
not
a
thousand
meetings,
if
you
understand,
but
we're
definitely
open
to
it,
I'm
more
than
open
to
anybody
who
has
who
has
a
system.
You
have
to
send
me
information.
You
know
he
said
I
can't.
B
B
D
D
B
D
B
I
should
imagine,
too,
that
there's
other
research
going
on
inside
the
federal
reserve
system.
Most
of
it
is
the
board
of
governors
themselves.
They
set
up
a
technology
group,
that's
mainly
so
we're
going
very,
very
deep
into
cbdc
they're,
going
a
little
they're,
going
less
deep
and
wider
across
multiple
blockchains
and
looking
at
other
things
like
interoperability
between
chains
and
things
like
that.
So
I'll
make
sure
I
pass
you
your
information
along
to
the
board
as
well.
D
That
would
be
great
yet
because
we
looked
into
all
those
options,
basically
with
interoperability
and
also
looked
at
the
cbdc,
and
we
looked
at
it
also
from
domestic
perspective
on
far
from
the
cross-border
border
perspective
as
well.
We
looked
at
a
lot
of
these
details
and
we
have
built
something
so,
let's,
let's
maybe
move
it
online
and
I'll
offline
and
I'll.
C
D
B
So
much
not
the
policy
guy,
but
I
understand
I
mean
if
you've
ever
been
to
boston,
we
were
saying:
don't
pave
the
cow
paths.
If
you
do
you
get
boston
streets,
as
you
can
see
on
the
right
that
we
are
not
a
grid
because
we
paid
cal
pass.
So
what
that
means
to
me
is,
as
we
think
forward
about
this,
we
shouldn't
necessarily
build
a
new
payment
system
to
look
necessarily
like
the
old
ones.
Nor
should
we
assume
that
all
the
policy
considerations
are
the
same.
I
mentioned
one.
B
Can
we
look
at
privacy
and
compliance
differently
with
new
technology?
Maybe
not,
but
I
think
it's
an
opportunity
to
look
at
fixing
some
things
and
unpaving
some
roads.
If
you
will
so
the
next
few
sides
are
a
bunch
of
policy
questions
and
will
not
be
talking
about
them.
But
the
main
message
here
is
the
board
of
governors
has
issued
a
public
consultation
paper
january
20th
and
they're
taking
comments
through
may
20th,
and
I
highly
encourage
anybody
with
an
opinion
with
a
good
idea.
A
B
A
B
B
So
you
know
some
of
the
areas
that
we
think
about
for
privacy
and
I'll
I'll
just
run
through
them
quickly,
because
I
want
to
leave
plenty
of
time
for
questions.
You
know
I
mentioned
privacy
versus
traceability.
How
do
you
catch
the
bad
guys,
or
do
you
have
to
financial
structure
very
important
to
banks?
Who
are
the
intermediaries?
B
B
B
I
personally
think
there
is
promise
in
cross-border,
but
it's
not
a
panacea.
The
bank
for
international
settlement
bis
as
a
working
group
looking
at
cross
border.
I
think
it's
called
the
road
maps
across
border
and
I
believe
they
have
either
16
or
19
different
traps
of
work,
one
of
which
is
cbdc,
which
shows
you
how
complicated
cross-border
is.
B
B
If
it's
just
if
it's
a
stated
goal,
if
it
says
public
policy
goal
that
it
will,
I
think
we
can
help
once
again,
I'm
not
a
pianist
here,
but
I
think
you
can
help
innovation.
I
truly
believe
that
a
cbdc
will
spur
innovation
in
the
private
sector
and
create
new
tools.
New
ways
of
doing
things
should
a
cbdc
be
smart,
smart
contract.
My
view
is
not
very,
I
could
just
be
functionality,
but
not
super
smart
money.
It
shouldn't
stop
me
from
buying
too
much
beer.
I
mean
you
know
it
shouldn't.
B
By
far
the
leader
is
singapore
project
uben,
what's
been
going
on
616.,
you
know
they
worked
with
canada
and
england
that
had
three
different
blockchains
with
three
different
currencies
and
a
currency
on
blockchain
and
did
pvp
and
dvp
across
three
platforms,
so
very
robust
testing,
very,
very
strong,
and
they
used.
You
know
hyperledgers
one
quarter
as
one
and
I
forget
the
third
platform
and
the
bis
innovation
hubs
which
there
are
multiple
across
the
world
are
looking
across
border.
Hong
kong
is
looking
at
wholesale
across
border.
B
B
B
Depending
on
how
it's
built,
a
number
of
my
teammates
came
from
circle
financials,
so
they
had
both
a
stable
coin
before
that
they
had
a
p2p
network
and
they
were
able
to
freeze,
freeze
car.
These
freeze
currencies
that
they
knew
were
in
wallets
of
bad
guys,
so
by
design
it
can
be
done.
It's
basically
based
on
how
it's
built.
B
But
if,
if
if
this
is
based
on
public
key
infrastructure-
and
you
knew
the
public
key
was
owned
by
someone
on
a
bad
guy
list-
that's
the
hard
part,
then
you
have
ways
that
they
definitely
could
design
in
ways
of
freezing
assets
or
even
destroying
assets
in
a
case
like
that,
but
it's
all
based
on
the
design
criteria
and
then
the
identity,
verification,
that's
the
hard
part.
Really
in
all
of
this
is
how
do
you?
How
do
you
go
from
the
currency
to
an
identity
but
definitely
possible.
C
Hi,
jim
jumping
in
with
a
question
so
kind
of
segue
from
the
last
one
talking
about
identity
and
privacy.
So
what
are
the
real
hurdles
around
identity?
If
you
could
spend
a
minute
there,
and
then
you
know
given
the
way
I
kind
of
think
about
this
in
a
retail
sense:
there's
not
really
a
digital
representation
of
people
to
tie
assets
too.
So
how
do
you
like?
How
do
you
think
about
that
hurdle.
B
It
could
be
that
I
mean
the
way
it
works
today
is
the
fed
doesn't
have
identity,
the
bank
has
identity
and
the
identity
is
identified,
so
the
bank
does
the
kyc
am
all
that
stuff.
We
get
a
transaction
with
information
that
may
identify
the
person
or
may
have
you
know
information,
that's
solely
for
the
bank.
We
settle
with
banks,
not
with
individuals,
and
so
it
could
be
that
the
intermediary
work
through.
B
I
think
the
most
logical
way
is
the
intermediate
we
work
through
is
able
to
connect
that
public
key
with
an
identity
and
hold
yeah
hold
the
private
key.
If
the
person
wants
it
held
in
custody
like
you
would
do
with
the
coin
base
or
the
individual
can
hold
their
own
private
key,
if
that's
how
it
works,
but
so
right
now
the
most
likely
cases
there's
an
intermediary
that
connects
that
public
private
key
here
with
an
individual
or
the
only
other
option
is
some
some
mega
directory.
B
That
does
it,
because
otherwise
I
don't
see
the
fed
holding
the
identity
in
the
us.
We
don't
have
a
digital
identity,
national
digital
identity.
If
we,
if
we
did,
that
would
be
great.
That
would
work
for
something
like
this
that'd
be
a
way
of
trying
to
connect
those
things.
But
right
now
it's
a
challenge.
C
Thanks
for
the
question
or
the
answer,
hey
jim
quick
question-
I
know
in
a
lot
of
kind
of
high
availability
infrastructures.
Kind
of
the
goal
is
four
or
five
nines
in
terms
of
availability.
I
would
expect
for
the
fed
that
even
that
might
not
be
sufficient
kind
of
what
are
you
guys
looking
at
in
order
to
kind
of
reach
that
100
percent
kind
of
availability
that
you
guys
are
looking
at?
C
B
Yeah
we're
going
to
try
to
push
this
part
of
our
you
know.
Future
testing
is
trying
to
push
the
envelope
there,
but
definitely
it's
it
is.
You
know,
paralyzed
systems
in
multiple
data,
centers
we've
got
replication
of
the
data
across
the
entire
system,
so
there's
no
single
copy
of
anything
live.
I
mean
live
data,
not
a
backup
or
tertiary.
You
know
backups
things
like
that,
and
the
other
option
is
as
a
fail-safe
offline
capabilities.
B
B
For
part
of
that,
you
know
availability,
but
we
do
want
to
try
to
we
out
like
so
we're
starting
to
talk
to
some
of
the
leading
vendors.
You
know
I
mean
I
think
the
the
most
bandwidth
in
the
entire
world
is
used
by
youtube
and
we're
talking
to
youtube
about
throughput
and
we're
talking
to
amazon
and
others
about
availability
and
trying
to
make
sure
we're
on
a
leading
edge
and
then
eventually,
because
this
would
be
important
factors
we
bring
in
the
miters
and
the
other,
both
from
a
cyber
attack
and
also
from
resiliency
perspective.
B
Other.
Are
there
things
that
we
haven't
thought
of,
because
four
nines
used
to
be
okay,
so
we're
going
down
all
these
paths
at
once,
because
I
agree
I
mean
I
don't
want
to
be
decash
if
you
follow
the
eastern
caribbean
that'll
be
down
for
a
month,
because
something
went
wrong.
That
would
that'd
be
failure.
Yep
sure.
Thank
you.
B
You
know
we're
also
looking
at
and
I'm
not
an
expert
in
this,
but
how
it's
containerized
and
all
that's
so
we
can
work
across
multiple
clouds.
You
know,
I
personally
don't
think
one
one
cloud
vendor
is
gonna
be
enough,
so
we
are
looking
at
multiple
cloud
options
and
obviously
that's
some
great
work
being
done
there
as
well-
and
I
should
have
mentioned
that
trevor
as
well
as
the
other
way
of
you
know,
is
to
contribute.
B
D
A
B
A
B
Yeah-
and
I
actually
have
the
chat
up
now,
because
I
couldn't
present
or
watch
it
so
yeah
so
offline
is-
is
important
for
a
number
of
reasons.
One,
as
I
mentioned,
that
trevor's
question
is
about
you
know
just
availability
in
case
there's
an
issue,
but
also
for
a
cyber
attack.
You
know:
is
there
a
ability
for
it
offline?
B
You
need
to
think
about
it.
If
I
want
to
step,
if
I
want
to
stop
myself
from
spending
too
much
money
on
beer-
and
I
I
can
do
that
in
a
wallet
or
if
I
want
to
have
certain
other
limitations
on
where
the
money
is
spent
or
other
types
of
controls,
I
can
do
that
in
layers
outside
of
the
core
processing
engine.
That's
just
protecting
the
core
processing
engine
from
the
potential
for
bug,
infiltration
or
even
just
bad
code,
and
so
that's
how
we
think
about
it.
B
C
A
I
want
to
return
to
your
comment
about
the
wallets,
because
that's
one
of
one
thing
that
seemed
to
be,
I
mean
the
details
seem
to
be
missing
in
the
in
the
paper,
but
a
lot
of
the
capabilities,
especially
the
verification
and
interaction
between
the
wallets,
are
necessary
for
the
uhs
to
function
properly.
Right,
I
mean
that's
what
I
read
from
the
paper.
B
Yeah,
so
what
we
did
was
we
actually
built,
we
actually
built
the
wallet
and
I
think
I
think
I
think
our
developer
came
from
bitpay,
who
developed
the
wallet
there
I
recall
correctly
about,
but
that
was
more
for
our
own
testing
and
trying
to
understand
the
relationship
between
the
core
engine
and
the
wallet.
But,
as
I
said,
this
is
just
the
quarter
engine
as
we
think
about
building
out
more
capability.
B
Eventually,
we
have
to
think
about
the
ui
and
there's
you
know.
There's
multiple
scenarios
with
the
fed
write,
a
wallet
that
is
distributed
and
white
label
likely
not
would
the
fed
potentially
write
some
specifications
that
will
have
to
me
from
a
security
perspective?
Maybe
some
standards
that
wallets
are
safe
and
people
know
that
they
are,
they
would
probably
be
developed
by
vendors
and
intermediaries,
etc,
but
we
definitely
need
the
wallet
we're
just
not
there.
B
B
What's
possible
so
right
now
we're
not
tying
ourselves
to
what
currently
works
today
in
any
national
infrastructure,
fedramp
or
anything
else,
and
so
we
would
go
beyond
what
currently
is
capable
and
then,
if
we
felt
it
was
determined
that
we
had
to
have
a
multi-cloud
environment
for
this
to
be
issued.
We'd
deal
with
that
when
we
came
to
it
you
know,
so
we
can't
once
again.
The
cow
path
is
how
things
are
designed
today,
and
maybe
they're
they're
capable
today
of
enough
that
maybe
a
cbdc
brings
us
to
new
needs.
B
B
You
know,
I
think
that'd
be
the
ultimate,
so
the
ultimate
would
be
if
there's
an
application
like
say
cross-border,
going
from
one
cbdc
to
another.
I
think
we
should
be
aiming
for
that.
It's
not
saying
it's
a
policy
choice,
I'm
just
saying
from
a
technology's
perspective.
We
should
look
at
it.
Many
people
have
asked
me:
should
it
interoperate
with
other
payment
systems,
and
I
say
why,
because
they
don't
interact
today,
no
payment
system
actually
interacts
with
another
one.
B
You
go
through
an
intermediary
with
the
exception
of
checking
ach,
which
is
not
a
little
bit
of
a
niche
issue
there,
and
so
for
d5.
I'd
say
you
know
if
there
was
a
valid
business
reason
for
a
cbdc
to
be
able
to
be
used
within
a
within
a
d55
world
and
it
wasn't
violating
compliance
rules
and
the
intermediaries
could
make
it
work.
I
see
no
reason
why
not,
but,
like
I
said,
I'm
not
the
just
another
policy
maker.
A
A
A
C
C
B
Oh
is
that
on
the
d5
world
yeah
I
mean
I
would
I
think,
that
any
connectivity
that
was
solving
solving
a
business
case
a
valid
business
case
that
was
working
within
regulation.
I
would
want
to
be
able
to
make
a
connection
there.
The
question
would
get
into
you
know
other
issues
of
compliance
with
know
your
customer
etcetera
or
are
those
fine
and
what's
the
intermediary?
What's
the
connection
between
the
currency
and
the
defy
world,
are
you
who's
the
intermediary?
B
A
You
know,
which
is
the
credit
card,
companies
company's
standard
interface
and
that's
how
they
hook
up
the
send
order
to
the
esp.
Of
course.
That
means
that
somebody
has
to
write
this.
Somebody
has
to
manage
it,
which
is
island
pay,
but
he
also
said
something
very
important,
which
is
they
implemented
standards
for
wallets?
A
B
B
B
B
Yeah,
I
believe
it's
actually
in
the
material
of
the
white
paper
we
built.
We
built
software
to
actually
conduct
those
tests
and
I
believe
it
was.
Every
transaction
was
two
inputs,
two
outputs
just
to
try
to
replicate
a
normal
transaction
and
we're
actually
trying
to
open
source
the
controller
that
we
built
to
drive
the
test
so
that
other
people
can
tests
in
the
same
way.
If
they
want
to
take
the
open
source
code
outside
or
make
contributions,
they
can
test
against
the
controller
a
little
challenging
we're
not
there.
C
C
A
B
We
are
trying
to
open
source
the
controller,
which
I
think
would
also
be
something
we'd
be
interested
in
others,
contributing
to
our
understanding,
because,
obviously,
that's
important
piece
of
technology
to
ensure
that
what
we're
where
people
are
contributing
is
tested.
You
know
in
a
consistent
way,
that's
the
same
thing.
We
would
use
against,
hopefully
against
private
sector
actors,
but
that's
also
a
challenge.
B
Questions
one
more
thing:
since
we
have
a
moment-
and
this
is-
I
usually
try
to
say
this-
but
it
takes
time
so
people
sometimes
ask
where
the
project
hamilton
name
comes
from
and
most
people
think
it's
alexander
hamilton,
which
it
is
it's
not
alexander.
Who
was
actually
the
grandfather,
I
guess,
of
the
central
bank.
B
But
when
my
my
team
was
coming
together,
we
knew
we'd
work
with
mit
and
we
called
this
a
moon
shot
because
we
really
thought
we'd
be
building
something
important
like
going
to
the
moon,
and
so
the
team
did
research
and
we
found
that
margaret
hamilton
ran
an
mit
technology
lab
in
the
60s
and
her
team
built
the
guidance
system
for
the
apollo
space
program.
So
it's
as
much
a
nod
to
alexander
hamilton
as
to
the
the
better
sex,
the
margaret
hamilton.
So
just
well.
We
had.
A
C
C
C
B
B
So
we
have
not
done
a
lot
of
looking
at
it
really
just
to
understand
that
we
need
to.
We
are
thinking
about
it
relative
to
programmability,
because
it
has
implications
there,
but
we're
more
trying
to
understand.
Let's
start
with
the
minimum
information,
which
is
just
a
public
private,
keep
here
and
see
where
the
the
privacy
regulation
goes
because
it's
a
challenge.
B
We
have
thought
about
other
poor
limits
on
the
ability
to
hold
et
cetera
like
that,
but
we
we
are
not
designing
it
yet,
because
I
want
to
limit
limits
on
holding
because
that
limits
the
value
of
the
currency
we
can
put
them
on.
We
know
how,
because
we
haven't
done
much
work
on
it
yet
because
of
the
you
know,
starting
with
the
most
open
system
possible
and
then
going
from
there,
but
it's
an
important
issue
for
sure
again.
A
C
Sorry,
I
didn't
realize
you
were
adding
something
to
that
jim,
you
know
it's.
It's
really
exciting
to
see
how
much
the
project
hamilton
has
embraced,
open
source
and
is
putting
the
technology
out
there
you're.
Basically,
the
only
ones
doing
that
on
this
topic
and
you
know
as
a
open
source
community
ourselves.
You
know
we
hope
to
see
more
of
that
around
the
cbdc
research,
and
so
I
wanted
to
just
ask
you,
you
know,
aside
from
obviously
participating
in
the
in
the
working
group
meetings
at
opencvdc.
C
What
what
do
you
see
our
community
could
be
doing
or
could
be
contributing
to
the
you
know,
the
knowledge
base
and
what's
useful
and
helpful,
to
help
people
understand
help
central
banks
understand
how
to
implement
and
figure
out
this.
This
use
case.
What
could
what
do
you?
What
role?
Do
you
see
us
our
community
having
and
what
could
we
be
doing?
That
would
be
helpful.