►
Description
This month we have the great pleasure of having Raj Kannan the CTO and co-founder of Hyperledger Foundation member, BondEvalue (www.bondevalue.com). Raj will give us a special behind the scenes/update on BondbloX (www.bondblox.com) Bond Exchange the world's first fractional bond exchange. Which was launched in 2020 and approved by the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) after going through their sandbox.
----
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A
A
We
have
raj
khannan
from
the
cto
of
bondi
valley
is
going
to
talk
about
what
they're
doing
at
bomb
blocks
the
first
ever
blockchain
based
bond
exchange,
which
is
now
I
think,
two
years
since
it
came
out
of
out
of
the
singapore
regulatory
sandbox.
So
you
know
a
lot's
happened,
so
we're
really
excited
to
have
that.
A
So
it's
very
special
thank
you
raj
and
we're
also
going
to
hand
in
a
second
of
it
to
our
chair
to
vipin
who's,
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
some
something
that
came
out
from
the
white
house
today
about
some
executive
order,
which
is
all
pretty
exciting
as
well
around
assets
additional
assets.
So
we're
looking
forward
to
that,
but
before
I
hand
over
I'll
hand
first
to
whitman,
I
have
a
few
housekeeping
items.
First,
we
do
have
an
anti-trust
policy
at
the
linux
foundation,
this
linux
foundation
meeting.
A
So
please
do
go
and
see
that
if
you
have
any
questions
about
it,
we
also
do
have
a
code
of
conduct.
It's
pretty
straightforward,
be
civil
treat
others,
as
you
would
treat
yourself
right
and
also
you
know.
We,
I
believe
very
much
in
diversity.
Diversity
is
a
strength
of
our
community.
The
more
diverse
are
we
are
the
better
our
community.
So
please
respect
others.
I'm
now
going
to
hand
that,
over
to
you,
vipin
in
your
your
beautiful
wist
area,
I'm
learning
that
wisteria
in
in
central
park.
B
B
B
Value
then,
of
course,
it
frames
it
as
protecting
the
american
consumer,
and
it
has
a
very
definite
timeline
for
all
the
various
agencies
to
produce
reports
and
to
track
the
reports,
and
you
know
if
you,
if
you
read
the
executive
order,
it
goes
into
great
detail
on
about
20
or
so
agencies.
So
it's
it's
that's
very
interesting.
B
There
is
also
a
pretty
big
section
on
cbdc's,
which
is
you
know,
going
to
be
important,
and
obviously
it
is
a
geopolitical
and
strategic
imperative
to
be
on
the
forefront
of
this
because,
obviously,
as
we
have
seen
in
the
past
few
days,
it
is
financial
sanctions
that
seem
to
have
made
a
difference,
at
least
slightly.
But
you
know
this
is
going
to
be
the
warfare
of
the
future,
the
hybrid
warfare,
as
they
say
anyway.
C
Thanks
vegan
I'll
thanks
and
welcome
everyone
thanks
for
joining
in
at
various
times
of
the
day
across
the
globe.
So
today,
I'd
like
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
we
set
up
the
world's
first
fractional
exchange
for
bonds
and
then
I'll
try
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
a
peek
of
how
things
work
behind
the
scenes
as
well
just
going
to
share
my
screen.
C
C
C
But
our
vision
is
a
world
where
every
investor
can
trade
bonds
on
the
go
without
any
restrictions
on
minimum
investments,
and
this
is
implemented
by
our
fully
regulated
bond
exchange.
It's
based
on
blockchain
and
we
also
have
a
cloud-based
bond
information
service
that
provides
more
transparency
to
the
bond
markets.
C
So
looking
at
some
of
the
key
pain
points
of
the
bond
markets
right,
so
these
are,
if
you
look
at
what's
happened
in
the
capital
markets
equities,
I
think
in
the
late
90s
early
2000s,
they
modernized,
they
became
fully
electronic
in
every
way.
Fx.
I
think
that
happened
more,
let's
say
a
few
years
later
in
the
2010s,
and
we
feel
that
the
time
is
appropriate
for
the
bond
markets
to
join
that
revolution.
C
If
you
will
bond
markets
by
the
way
are
larger
than
even
equity
markets,
just
because
of
the
sheer
size
of
the
issuers
and
the
number
of
bonds
issued
and
the
size
of
the
issuances
as
well,
but
the
pain
points
are
still
decades
old
right.
So
for
those
of
you
who
may
have
bought
or
sold
bonds,
especially
in
asia,
large
parts
of
the
trading
is
still
phone
call
driver
minimum
sizes
again,
especially
asia,
maybe
australia.
C
The
europe
as
well,
the
minimum
ticket
sizes
are
in
the
region
of
u.s
dollar
200k
and
then
their
non-exchange
trader.
They
are
largely
traded
on
marketplaces
that
are
over
the
counter
or
otc
traded,
and
all
of
this,
I
think,
contributes
them
to
to
to
be
largely
illiquid
as
well.
So
the
complexity
of
especially
asia,
maybe
or
go
ahead,
go
ahead.
C
Okay,
it
seems
like
there
was
an
echo.
I
thought
it
was
somebody
else.
It's
me.
The
complexity
of
bonds
requires
deep
domain
knowledge
and
technology
to
come
together
to
create
this
kind
of
a
market
infrastructure
that
can
solve
all
these
problems
and
we'll
take
a
little
bit
of
a
look
at
how
we
are
doing
it
right.
So
this
is
an
overview
of
the
bond
blocks
exchange
system
as
an
exchange.
C
We
work
like
other
exchanges
with
with
banks,
asset
managers,
brokers,
fintechs,
etc,
and
then
they
provide
access
like
a
bank
or
broker
might
provide
access
to
the
exchange
through
through
their
connection
with
us.
We
are
licensed
by
the
mas.
We
were
the
first
to
get
into
the
mas
sandbox
express,
and
then
we
were
able
to
exit
to
get
a
full
recognized
market
operator
license
on
the
1st
of
october
22.
C
We
have
integrated
with
global
custodians.
I
think
global
suits
many
global
customers
or
a
couple
of
global
custodians,
both
city
and
northern
trust,
two
of
the
largest
custodians,
the
biggest
and
most
respected
names
as
well
in
the
custody
side
of
things
are
fully
integrated
with
us
and
we'll
talk
about
how
how
this
sets
up
the
ecosystem
for
us
as
well.
We
have
as
we
stand.
We
have
grown
our
membership
since
the
late
2020,
despite
all
of
the
covert
headwinds
that
hit
so
we
have.
As
you
can
see,
these
are
members.
C
C
We
have
others
who
are
based
out
of
century
private
parties
in
the
middle
east
investment
services.
Uk
is
in
uk
gfm,
I
believe
is
in
is
in
hong
kong
and
then
already
dancing
in
indonesia.
So
it's
there's
many
questions
on
what
bond
exchange
bond
exchanges
can
do
bond
exchanges
by
their
nature
and
because
they're
based
in
singapore
as
well,
are
global.
So
our
clientele,
our
members,
are
global
and
we
continue
to
bring
on
more
members
on
board
more
members
as
we
speak.
C
So
what
is
bond
blocks
right
and
how
did
we
construct
all
of
this?
The
digital
asset?
That's
bond
blocks
right,
so
we
haven't
really
taken
away.
What
is
a
market
practice?
Rather,
we
are
built
on
top
of
a
mark
existing
market
practice,
which
is
the
practice
of
creating
depository
receipts.
For
many
of
us,
we
would
have
seen
in
india,
especially
right
a
lot
of
the
big
marquee
companies
started
listing
in
in
nasdaq
or
the
new
york
stock
exchange,
and
that
process
was
through
the
global
depository
receipts
or
the
american
adrs.
C
American
depository
receipts,
so
bond
blocks
is
basically
a
repository
receipt
of
an
underlying
bond.
It
carries
the
characteristics
of
of
the
underlying
bond,
except
in
one
area,
which
is
that
the
minimum
denomination
is
a
thousand
dollars
versus
two
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
most
of
the
bonds
that
we
have
on
the
exchange.
C
So
what
is
the
process
of
creating
the
deposit
previously
so
depository
receipts?
Interestingly,
are
a
method
that
can
be
used
for
fractionalization,
but
they
in
the
past.
They
have
used
almost
in
the
reverse
direction
right,
so
you
take
you
take,
let's
say
if
there's
a
share
trading
in
india
at
100
rupees
right.
If
it
goes
to
the
u.s
market
and
original
denomination,
it
becomes
two
dollars
it's
coming
down
to
looking
like
a
penny
stock
right.
C
C
The
bond
is
brought
into
the
exchange
by
one
of
the
designated
market
makers
and
it's
customized
and
safeguarded
with
one
of
our
designated
custodians,
not
in
trusted
city.
When
the
bond
is
received
by
our
custodian,
they
confirmed
receipt,
and
this
confirmation
then
creates
this
underlying
digital
asset.
The
bond
blocks
in
the
distributed
ledger,
so
we
use
hyperledger
sawtooth
and
it
creates
the
bond
blocks
equal
value.
C
But
now
the
denomination
is
just
a
thousand
dollars
right
and
now
we
also
have
a
dual
fungible
process,
which
means
the
market
maker
if
they
have
bonds.
In
the
original
denomination
and
increments,
if
they
want
to
go
back
and
take
it
back
to
the
secondary
market,
they
can
fund
it
out
by
withdrawing
it
from
the
custodian
and
the
similar
process
happens
in
the
reverse.
C
So
some
of
the
key
benefits
before
we
get
into
a
little
more
of
the
underlying
the
flows,
it's
vis-a-vis
being
phone
driven.
It
is
fully
electronic.
Now
you
can,
you
can
place
orders,
and
if
you
have
your
own
application,
you
can
connect
by
our
apis
or
you
can
deploy.
We
have
a
in
order
to
see
the
market.
We
created
a
deployable
application
that
that
we
host
for
a
majority
of
our
members
to
get
go
to
market
really
fast,
because
we
have
the
bond
in
the
ledger.
C
We
also
have
the
cash
in
the
ledger.
So
if
somebody
wants
to
buy
a
bond,
they
would
transfer
cash
to
one
of
our
custodians,
the
same
process
and
it
would
get
recorded
in
the
ledger
and
and
it's
locked
box
with
the
custodian.
So
the
orders
itself
match,
like
any
exchange
on
a
central
limit
order
book
on
a
price
tag
priority,
but
at
the
end
of
that
order
matching
process,
the
settlement
instructions
are
sent
to
the
dlp
and
the
settlement
is
instantaneous
in
a
way.
C
If
you
look
at
the
infrastructure,
we
are
kind
of
fully
integrated,
so
typically
in
the
market
infrastructure
you
have
an
exchange,
you
have
a
clearinghouse,
you
have
a
depository
a
bank,
you
know
those
that
custodize
the
underlying
asset
or
record,
keep
for
the
underlying
asset
and
there's
a
there's,
a
flow
that
in
the
bond
market
typically
takes
t
plus
two
at
the
end
of
the
trade.
In
our
case,
the
trades
are
instant,
reduces
risk,
etc,
but
also
you
are
able
to
then
you
utilize.
C
Whatever
you've
got
at
that
point
in
time,
small
ticket
sizes
we
work
directly
with
partners,
we
have
a
small
set
of
bonds
which
we
are
growing
every
month.
The
idea
is
that
in
the
bond
market
there
are
millions
of
bonds
issued,
but
we
want
to
take
a
small
set
of
curated
bonds
that
that
provide
you
know,
liquidity
in
our
market,
dual
fungible.
We
are
not
a
crypto.
We
are
not
equipped
to
exchange.
C
So
how
does
this
whole
process
work
right?
So,
in
order
for
the
exchange
to
function,
we
need
to
have
bonds
in
the
exchange,
so
a
market
maker,
a
designated
market
maker
on
the
exchange,
but
it
could
also
be
any
participant
in
exchange-
can
bring
in
a
bond
some
taking
the
example
of
a
bond
that
is
quite
popular
in
in
our
ecosystem,
which
is
the
hsbc
6.375
coupon
per,
so
they
bring
in
200
of
that
bond
and
they
transfer
it
to
our
custodian
right.
C
The
custodian
customizes
that
and
confirms
receipt
to
the
blockchain.
So
at
this
point
I'll
also
talk
through.
You
know
we
use
hyperledger
sawtooth
and
we
use
the
pbft
consensus,
because
pbft
is
non-forking,
it's
byzantine
for
tolerance.
So
when
we
say
it's
instantaneous
right,
you
don't
have
to
wait
for
folk
resolutions
and
such
to
confirm
it's
committed
as
soon
as
the
action
is
taken.
C
Okay.
So
when
the
confirmation
happens,
the
transaction
is
distributed
to
all
the
nodes
in
the
and
then
the
pbft
consensus
that
kicks
in
right.
So
ppft
has
a
sort
of
a
rotational
leader
policy
and
the
leader
at
that
time
would
order
the
transactions
into
blocks
and
distribute
that
to
all
nodes
transactions
are
executed
by
every
single
node.
C
You
know
vis-a-vis
distributed
databases
where
the
leader
does
everything,
and
then
only
the
data
updates
go.
This
is
part
of
how
I
guess
the
underlying
blockchain
system
is
by
runtime
fault,
tolerant
and
all
nodes.
Compare
the
execution
results
with
each
other,
and
if
greater
than
two
thirds
of
the
network
have
identical
results,
then
the
block
is
committed
right
and
the
nodes
global
state
as
well.
So
you
can
think
of
the
global
state,
as
you
know,
set
of
accounts
and
what's
under
under
them
what
assets
are
under
them.
C
So
you
can
see
that
one
to
one
back
bond
blocks.
Fractional
units
are
created,
so
the
market
maker
account
now
has
200
000
of
the
underlying
bond.
The
other
good
thing
about
the
sawtooth
system
is
that
it's
completely
even
driven.
So
as
as
things
happen,
events
are
sent,
so
everybody
gets
updated,
it's
asynchronous,
but
you
get
updated
as
things
happen
instantaneously.
C
So
bond
blocks,
as
we
mentioned,
are
also
fungible
and
the
reverse
process
happens.
If
somebody,
the
market
maker,
wants
to
take
it
back
to
the
secondary
market.
When
a
member
wants
to
buy
this
bond,
there's
a
similar
process
where
they
move
cash
to
the
custodian
and
and
then
they
can
place
orders
so
we'll
take
a
quick
look
at
the
orders
flow,
so
the
market
maker
places
orders
to
sell
the
bond.
They
no
longer
have
to
do
a
they
can
place.
C
C
So
why
are
we
using
the
blockchain
there's
a
lot
of
question
about
it?
It's
not
it's
a
permission
network.
It
is
largely
between
body
value
and
the
custodians
who
maintain
the
safeguard
and
maintain
the
but
assets.
It's
a
single
source
of
record.
It's
the
reason
I
mention
events.
A
lot
is
because
it's
really
efficient
when
it
comes
to
messaging
and
communication,
and
some
of
the
benefits
that
you
would
have
seen
the
efficiency
improves,
there's
very
little
little
reconciliation
efforts.
The
settlement
is
t
plus
zero.
C
Another
look
at
how
this
how
this
system
is
when
we
start
off.
We
always
you
know
we
connect
directly,
we
put
in
a
blockchain
system
and
then
we
look
at
how
it
works.
But
while
the
underlying
abilities
of
the
blockchain
system
are
really
robust,
the
interactions
are
not
really
so
right,
like
all
of
us
who
have
worked
with
us
know
that
when
you
use
a
cli
or
a
terminal,
you
get
data,
but
it's
really
not
consumable
by
our
end
users-
and
this
is
the
system
that
we
have
in
place.
C
C
Okay,
just
getting
into
a
few
of
the
challenges
and
the
lessons
learned
again:
it's
you
know
it's
it's
I
I
did
this
last
year
as
well,
but
I
I
still
feel
this
is
a
new
technology
paradigm.
There's
a
lot
of
excitement
about
what
blockchain
can
bring
and
truly
so
it
makes
us
opens
our
mind.
It
makes
us
think,
there's
an
excellent,
excellent
paper
on
the
capital
market
sig.
C
C
C
Deployment
of
updates
requires
a
coordinated
effort.
So,
needless
to
say,
if
you
make
changes,
you
add
new
features
to
your
system.
You
know
as
a
you
typically
just
deploy.
You
know
you
have
the
best
deployment
process.
You
can
do
it
very
quickly
onto
your
existing
non-uh,
distributed
systems
distributed
ledger
systems
with
with
partners.
In
this
case
it
requires
like
any
network.
It
requires
a
coordinated
effort
right,
and
so
you
have
to
have
plans.
C
C
So
we
don't.
Even
though
it's
a
private
network,
we
do
not
put
personally
identifiable
information,
that's
anonymized,
but
that
also
then
brings
in
a
need
to
combine
off
chain
data
with
on-chain
data,
there's
also
a
lot
of
market
data.
That's
quite
rich
and
diverse
in
nature
right
and
what
we
need
to
do
is
to
be
able
to
address,
to
combine
on-chain
and
off-chain
data
to
provide
a
really
rich
experience
to
your
users,
and
you
know.
C
Finally,
needless
to
say
for
every
every
kind
of
financial
system
you
have
to
plan
for
dr
availability
etc.
But
but
if
I
go
back
to
point
number
one,
this
is
new
right.
Just
you
have
to
figure
out
how
what
what
you
need
to
put
in
place
to
ensure
also
the
immutable
nature
of
the
blockchain
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
C
C
C
I
think
over
50
coupons
on
the
platform,
so
one
of
the
one
of
the
flows
that
I
didn't
discuss
is
that
we
have
to
take
care
of
corporate
actions
which
we
have
been
fairly
efficiently
doing
on
our
end,
and
we
have,
we
have
had
a
couple
of
redemptions
paul's
puts
so
we
have
exercised
a
lot
of
the
features
of
the
existing
markets
right
and
we
are
live.
This
is
completely
production.
We
are
on
the
with
the
regulator
and
so
on.
C
In
addition
to
this,
we
are
looking
at
other
other
opportunities.
The
underlying
dr
ability
right
anything
that
can
be
customized
customized
by
our
custodians
and
then
issued
as
a
pr
is,
is
a
powerful
concept
where
we're
looking
at
other
other
kinds
of
digital
assets
or
other
kinds
of
existing
assets
to
digitalize
them.
Like
maybe
funds,
maybe
you
know
etfs
local
currency
bonds,
so
they
can.
The
dr
allows
them
to
be
issued
in
a
different
currency
for
settlement,
so
on
and
so
forth.
C
Right,
that's
part
of
the
future
that
we
look
for
in
the
near
term.
So
with
that
I'll
stop
thanks
to
everyone.
Please
feel
free
to
contact
us
on
any
of
this.
I'm
happy
to
share
my
my
email
address
as
well.
It's
rajaram.com
first
name,
dot
last
name
at
countyvalue.com,
so
I'll
stop
here
I'll
hand
it
back
to.
A
A
B
C
You
know
thanks,
so
I
think
it's
a
couple
of
points.
The
off
chain
data,
the
nature
of
the
off
chain
data-
is
this
right.
So
so
let's
say
that
you
open
an
account
with
one
of
the
members
right.
So
your
the
details
that
this
account
belongs
to
whip
in
is
with
the
member
and
then
the
anonymized
account
id
is
created
on
the
blockchain
right.
So
part
of
combining
that
is.
C
Is
that
combining
let's
say
your
information
by
your
member,
the
member
that
you
are
on
boarded
with
and
your
portfolio
holdings
and
transactions
with
what's
there
in
the
blockchain
is,
is
an
example
of
what
is
done
right.
We
also
derive
a
lot
of
information
like
market
data,
big
cells
and
so
on,
and
we
want
to
distribute
that
faster.
C
So
in
terms
of
a
the
clash
amongst
the
data
is
limited,
so
we
are
not
duplicating
too
much
between
the
off
chain
and
the
on
chain.
It's
it's
sort
of
enrichment
of
the
data.
That's
on
chain
with
with
you
know,
with
two
words.
One
goal
is
that
on-chain
is
anonymized
as
much
as
possible,
and
the
second
goal
is
that
you
can
make
you
know
richer,
querying,
richer
ways
of
showing
data
when
you
combine
them
with
off
chain
data
and
then
and
then
let
your
users
interact
with
that.
B
What
platform
do
you
use
for
that?
I
mean,
I
know
that
in
terms
of
the
kyc
and
and
the
other
things
it's
the
client's
platform,
but
since
you're
also
handling
some
of
the
data
that
you
yourself
are
providing,
then
there
must
be
some
kind
of
a
distributed
database
or
ipfs
or
storej,
or
that's
great.
You
know
I,
I
don't
know
exactly
what
what
you
guys
are
using.
C
So
all
the
updates
happen
in
the
blockchain
and
they
are
updated
back
to
our
traditional
database
system.
The
databases
are
multi-ac
highly
available.
We
have,
we
keep
adopting
new
technology
as
they
come
up.
So
you
know
as
soon
as
aws
came
up
with
the
proxy
we
put
that
in
place.
We
tested
out
that
for
failures
are
fast.
A
super
fast,
like
you
know,
less
than
a
second
kind
of
thing,
so
and
and
then
we
don't
stop
there
with
it
right.
So
what
we
do
is
for
connected
clients
right
they
have.
C
We
are
able
to
send
the
update
directly
to
their
front-ends
as
well.
We
use
the
aws's
ios
iot
core,
so
they
all
connected
via
mqttn,
so
you
kind
of
as
markets
change
as
your
order,
status,
updates,
right
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
You
kind
of
see
it
like.
You
know
nearly
the
same
time
as
when
it
happens
on
our
systems
in
the
ledger
and
then
in
our
backend.
D
D
So,
roger
again,
thank
you,
excellent,
excellent
presentation.
I
think
that's
being
well
commented
in
in
the
chat
box
when
you
opened
up
and
obviously
from
I'm
almost
concerned
about
regulatory
compliance,
et
cetera,
et
cetera
and
ironically
vipin
also
mentioned
the
the
latest
executive
order
coming
out
from
the
us.
So
at
the
moment
in
time,
as
you
quite
rightly
mentioned,
you
are
not
a
an
exchange
you're,
not
a
crypto
exchange
and
obviously
it's
early
days
to
understand
the
full
fascinations
of
what's
on
the
latest
american
executive
order.
D
But
as
you
mentioned,
because
bonds
are
global
and
we
have
various
regulators
being
who
are
competing
to
understand
and
securities,
and
we
know
that
the
the
problem
that
happened
with
a
few
exchanges
with
different
regulators
etc.
Do
you
think
that
shortly
you,
your
activities
will
will
be
regulated
and
if
it
will
do
you
think
that
should
be
an
impediment
for
your
growth?
C
So
david
a
via
exchange,
but
for
bonds
right
and
b
we
are
regulated
today,
so
we
are
fully
regulated
by
the
monetary
authority
by
the
mas
in
singapore
right,
which
is
one
of
the
you
know,
one
of
the
regulators
of
renown
throughout
the
world
right
like
they.
They
took
by
the
way
our
application
took
us
a
year
year
and
a
half
to
a
big
because
of
what
you're
saying
right:
the
nature
of
the
assets.
C
It's
a
digital
asset,
it
uses
distributed,
ledger
technology
and
they
took
they
inspected
every
part
of
our
solution.
To
see
that
I
mean
from
a
regulator's
perspective
and
once
they
give
you
a
license
right,
I
mean
people
look
up
to
the
regulator
to
ensure
that
you
are.
You
know
you
are
performing
according
to
the
standards
that
that
are
expected
by
the
both
the
regulator
and
and
there's
a
reason
for
the
regulators,
the
public
in
general
as
well.
So
so
as
on
date,
we
are
fully
regulated.
C
The
regulation
permits
us
to
work
with
members
across
the
globe
right
and
what
we
do
from
a
kyc
perspective.
So
we
don't
kyc,
then
clients,
because
our
relationship
is
with
the
members
as
weapon
pointed
out,
but
we
kyc
the
member
themselves
and
part
of
that
is
to
ensure
that
the
regulations
in
their
home
country
permit
them
to
connect
to
us
and
to
sell
these
bonds.
C
So
in
singapore,
for
example,
you're
allowed
to
sell
bonds,
even
though
it's
now
fractional
right
only
to
a
certain
class
of
investors,
institutional
or
accredited
investors
right,
but
in
other
countries
the
regulations
change.
So
so
so
we
work
with
the
members
and
we
we
have
a
full
process
that
involves
ascertaining
that
they
are
able
to
follow
the
local
regulation
in
cases
where
the
member
in
the
local
market
says
that
you
need
to.
You
know
you
they
need
comfort
in
us
talking
to
their
local
regulator.
C
We
are
in
conversations
with
local
regulators
as
well.
If
and
where
needed,
it's
not
required
in
a
lot
of
cases,
but
in
a
few
cases
we
are
talking
to
the
local
regulator
to
see,
if
there's
anything
further,
we
need
to
do.
Do
we
need
to
sort
of
apply
to
the
local
regulators
in
certain
cases,
the
other
part
of
david.
C
So
so
we're
looking
at
what
are
the
appropriate
licenses
right
and
again
to
your
point.
Singapore
has
been
a
little
bit
ahead
of
this
because
they,
in
fact
they
encouraged
us
to
look
at
a
model
that
that
also
underlying
use
distributed
technology
and
such
but
then
they
took
you
know
they
took
the
appropriate
amount
of
time
from
their
perspective
to
ensure
before
they
allowed
us
first
into
the
sandbox,
and
then
you
know
the
full
license
outside
the
out
of
the
sandbox.
C
D
Thank
you
guys,
look
very
very
interesting
again
and
thank
you
for
the
presentation
mike.
What
I
wanted
to
ask
was
the
question
on
two
front
side.
The
one
is
with
regards
to
the
re-fungibility
may
not
be
the
right
term,
but
you've
talked
about
two
dual
fungibility
and
the
ability
to
fund
for
the
one
block
to
be
funds
back
to
the
original
bond
right.
So
would
you
like
to
understand
that
process
a
little
bit
more?
C
Sure
so
so,
first
on
the
first
question
machine,
the
process
of
dual
functionality
is
again,
it's
fairly
straightforward.
So
if
you
think
of
it,
let's
say
it
can
be
a
market
maker,
but
it
can
also
be
a
you
know.
It
can
be
any
client
right
as
long
as
they
have
the
requisite
quantity
that
is
acceptable
in
the
current
interbank
market.
So
so
what
I
mean
is
that
they,
if
the
bond
requires
a
two
hundred
thousand
dollar
minimum
right,
certain.
C
And
if
they
have
it
in
you
know
in
the
bond
block
size,
we
there's
a
process
through
which,
from
our
custodian
right
we
can,
we
can
withdraw
that
bond
into
their
custodian
and
the
corresponding
bond
blocks
is
knocked
off
from
the
system
right.
So
it's
a
fairly
okay
right.
It's,
I
guess
in
a
way,
it's
like
saying
you
know
if,
if
you
add
100
cents,
then
if
you
want
a
hundred
dollar
bill,
I
mean
money
is
almost
fully
fungible
right.
C
C
C
B
B
D
Yeah,
if
I
can,
this
is
going
to
be
a
very
quick
one.
Do
you
also,
you
know,
are
people
buyers
able
to
see
the
rating
of
the
bond?
Is
there
life?
Well,
you
know
I
do
have
apis
plugging
into
any
other
credit
trading
agencies,
or
is
it
just
the
basic
information
on
the
bond
when
somebody's
looking
at
it.
C
D
A
D
C
So
the
excite
I
mean
the
announcement
from
yesterday
that
we've
been
brought
up
right
is
very
exciting
news.
Now
the
mas
had
a,
I
think
for
the
last
fintech
festival.
Last
year
they
had
like
this
competition
for
for,
like
a
regulated
liability
network,
rln
network,
with
looking
at
cbdc
and
such
right,
and
we
were
part
of
a
team
which
of
the
consortium
of
banks.
C
You
know
a
couple
of
technology
providers
and
us
to
show
integration
from
our
systems
into
into
their
dem
on
their
demo
cbdc
system.
Right
and-
and
I
can
I
can-
I
can
tell
you
that
it's
a
very
exciting
place
for
us.
We
are
able
to
so
think
of
it
as
sort
of
many
many
many
interesting
things
in
that
right.
So
a
just
from
a
efficiency
perspective
right.
We
were
able
to
show
that
at
the
time
somebody
wants
to
buy
something
right.
C
They
can
click
and
transfer
cbdc
right
so
so
versus
the
fully
pre-funded
model
right
and
super
efficient,
and
it
was
a
live
integration,
no
real
cbdc
under
the
hood,
but
if
there
was
it
would
have
been
live
right,
so
we
can
go
live
if
that
system
gets
live.
We
can
be
live
in
a
couple
of
days
after
that.
C
The
second
interesting
thing
from
the
underlying
perspective
is:
there's
a
cbdc
network
and
there's
the
bond
blocks
network
and
there's
sort
of
the
interoperability
in
really.
You
know
sub
second
sub
millisecond,
whatever
time
frame
right
for
this
all
of
this
to
happen,
so
we
were
able
to
establish
that
as
well.
So
to
answer
your
question
we
have,
they
are.
C
B
So
this
interoperability
thing
do
you
have
you
know
is:
is
it
available?
Is
data
on
on
your
solution
available
architecture?
Anything
because
I'm
only
interested
in
it
for
my
interoperability
paper,
of
course
also
otherwise,
but
we
are
conducting
a
you
know
we
are.
We
are
writing
a
paper
on
creating
standards
for
interoperability
in
itu,
which
is
the
you
know,
international
telecommunication
union,
which
is
a
un
agency
dcgi.
It's
called
digital
currency,
global
initiative
anyway.
The
other
question
you
can
create
yourself
the
next
one.
C
C
C
The
reason
for
sawtooth
right
is
that
sort
sawtooth
has
a
very,
relatively
simpler
architecture
compared
to
at
least
what
fabric
was
two
years
back
right.
So,
if
you
think
of
trying
to
have
inter-company
kafka
right
to
have
within
your
company,
kafka
itself
is
a
it's
a
fair
bit
of
work
to
establish.
C
So
northern
trust,
for
example,
are
actually
running
their
own
nodes
in
their
own
infrastructure
right
and,
if
you
think
of
the
ability
to
then
connect
right
and
have
so
many
different
protocols,
sawtooth
was
very
simple
right.
Your
validator
at
port
8800,
connects
to
eight
port
zero
of
the
other
validators
like
there's
no
central
certificate
authority,
then
so
that's
one
part
of
it.
The
second
part
of
it
also
is
you
know.
Second
part
of
it
was
was
that
we
were
able
to.
C
You
have
to
focus
on
a
particular
system
to
kind
of
get
it
to
a
stage
where
you're
comfortable,
that
that,
when
you
move
into
production,
you're
able
to
handle
any
kind
of
cases
that
happen
right
and
the
simpler
the
system,
the
more
the
more
easier
for
you
to
accomplish
that,
so
that
that
is
sort
of
the
underlying.
Why
we
use
sawtooth.
There
are
things
that
fabric
has
that
I
wished.
C
D
C
I
think
I
think
many
of
the
other
systems
right
or
have
non-forking
options,
so
I
I
think,
in
fabric
fabric
supports
in
its
2.0
version.
They
have
simplified
it
now,
so
no
kafka
required.
They
have
a
bft
algorithm
right.
So
so
it
is,
I
I
do
believe,
or
they
have
raft
as
well,
which
is
not
byzantine
fault,
but
it's
a
non-forking
algorithm.
So
so
I
think
you
know
we
stumbled
upon
pbft
like
we
were
originally
planning
to
go
down
poet,
which
would
have
been
a
forking
algorithm.
C
Then
we
would
have
had
to
figure
out
something
else,
but
then
we
found
dbft
to
be
really
robust.
It
was
a
great
implementation.
Software
really
really
impressed
with
with
the
guys
who've
done
that
right
and
it
was
robust.
It
was
easy,
plugable,
consensus
and
so
on,
but
the
other
david
to
your
point.
I
I
believe
that
other
blockchain
systems
also
have
options
today
in
terms
of
consensus,
at
least
the
enterprise
ones,
that
we
can
use.
B
You
know
a
testing
infrastructure
truffle,
you
know
all
those
things,
but
is
there
a
comparable
deployment
architecture
because
I've
been
using
a
mini
fabric
to
do
to
deal
with
fabric,
and
it
is
pretty
it's
it's
pretty
good
mini
fabric
is
not
just
for
testing
it
is
it's
proven
itself
to
be
good
for
operation
operationalizing
as
well.
So
I
think
that
you
know.
Is
there
a
similar
thing.
C
C
Right,
it's
all
docker,
but
yeah
you
can
you
can
you
can
also
do
any
other
container?
But,
let's
say
they're
all
today
available
as
docker
containers
and
the
equivalent
transaction
processor
that
we
have
built
is
also
containerized,
and
it's
made
available
to
our
members.
We
can
use
their
deployment
methods.
B
C
D
C
Not
we're
not
looking
at
it
as
a
100,
node,
5000,
node
system
it
it
will
not
be
efficient
right,
then
it'll
start
going
into
so
with
pbft.
It's
a
very
it's.
It's
also
a
very
verbal
number
of
messages,
yeah
a
lot
of
messages
right.
So
so
we
you
know,
we
we
think
10
15..
I
think
it
will
all
depend
on
and
we
are
talking
to
a
lot
of
other
custodians.
C
B
B
C
C
You
know,
maybe
on
a
good
day,
we'll
do
a
few
million
dollars
of
trades,
but
we
have
to
look
at
a.
I
mean
thought
to
this
at
this
point
right
it
is
just
scalable.
We
have
done
a
lot
of
benchmarking
and
if
you
look
at
bond
markets
today
right
the
number
of
trades
per
day
average,
I
think
there
was
a
paper
sometime
back
right.
It's
in
thousands
for
a
particular
bond
versus
when
you
take
a
stock
market
equity
exchange.
C
Then
it's
in
millions,
millions
right,
so
so
the
comparative.
What
are
what
we
need
to
achieve?
If
we
get
you
know
if
we
really
conquer
the
entire
bond
market-
and
we
are
not-
we
are
looking
at
a
slice
of
it
right
is-
that
is
still
something
that
we
are
way
ahead
of
now.
So
we
are
in
between
where
the
bond
markets
are
and
where
the
stock
markets
are.
So
I
I
think
to
your
point,
the
scalability
side.
You're
right,
you
know,
I
think
of
it.
C
D
C
C
B
One
of
the
designers
of
sawtooth
yeah,
you
know
anyway,
I'm
wondering
about
one
more
thing,
which
is:
if
things
are
so
fast,
does
it
take
away
from
the
resilience
or
the
you
know
somewhat
from
problems
of
the
system?
Because
time
helps
you
know,
reconciliat
I
mean
obviously,
if
you're
not
making
errors,
then
you
don't
need
to
consider,
but
anyway,
I
know
why
julian
is
here,
because
time
is
up.
C
I'll
just
I'll
just
question
that
very
quickly.
I
think
I'll
refer
back
to
the
paper
that
you
put
up
on
the
capital
market
sig.
That
was
the
euro
clear,
sponsored
one
just
what
do
you
see
there
right?
Because
euroclear
is
you
know
premier
clearing
agency
right
and
they
have
the
csd
as
well,
so
they
you
know,
it's
really,
that's
where
the
efficiencies
are
coming
from
really
right
and
the
problem
today
is
there
are
so
many
sources
of
records
right.
C
Your
bond
holding
is
with
the
depository
your
cash
is
with
the
is
with
some
kind
of
bank
right.
Then
the
clearing
has
to
come
in
between
because
it
has
to
get
transferred
right
held
then
cleared
right.
Then
you
reconcile,
because
you
know
you,
you
can't
give
the
bond
to
the
other
person
until
the
cash
has
come
to
you.
So
then
you
give
the
cash
you
give
the
bond.
C
You
know
for
dvp
process
now,
when
everything
is
inside
the
same
ledger
and
it's
lock
box
outside
right,
the
reconciliation
is
really,
you
know
almost
non-existent
because
you
have
just
yes
right.
So
I
think
that's
where
the
efficiency
comes
from
and,
of
course,
to
your
point.
You
know
there
are
errors
and
such
right,
that's
where
we
have
to
be
really
careful
in
and
keep
them
simple
right.
C
From
that
we
do
we
do
you
know
we,
we
have
all
of
that,
so
we
have
circuit,
because
we
have
a
iranians
correction
policy
with
support
in
the
system
to
correct
iranis
traits.
So
we
have
taken
the
standard
market,
then
we
have
tried
to
bring
in
the
new
benefits
of
the
new
technology
and
combine
them.
So
we
be,
you
know
we
have
done
both.
So
we
do
have
a
iranian
direction
to
your
points,
circuit,
breakers,
erroneous
corrections
and
the
ability
to
execute
them
as
well.
B
A
A
This
is
really
good
stuff,
so
thank
you.
I
think
we
just
have
to
come
to
a
wrap
to
an
end
right,
but
I
think
we
need
a
follow-up,
maybe
a
follow-up
in
more
detail
there
right
and
thank
you.
Thank
you,
raj.
Thank
you,
vipin.
Thank
you
david.
Thank
you,
everybody.
I
think
that
was
a
great
meeting
and
raj
yeah.
Thank
you.