►
From YouTube: Panel Discussion: Citizens and Blockchain - Moderated by Rose Shuman, BrightFront Group
Description
Blockchain brings an opportunity for improvement of efficiency, industry creation and allows the innovators to become global leaders in the space. But what are the challenges of governments implementing large-scale blockchain projects for improved citizen relations? Attendees will gain insights into how the public sector looks at decentralized identity and the future of distributed ledgers. We will hear about the main obstacles people in Latin American countries usually have to surpass when trying to develop software using cutting-edge technologies as well as the benefits these communities have brought to marginalized sectors of the country. We will also have a unique opportunity to discuss the Smart Dubai initiative and it has been improving citizen stories to reach the goal of having everything on a blockchain by 2020. Can we create Citizens-as-a-Service? Saudi Arabia archives a National Census on a Permissionless Blockchain.
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
Webinars: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/webinars
Events: https://www.hyperledger.org/events
Vendor Directory: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/vendor-directory
Subscribe to the Hyperledger Newsletter: https://www.hyperledger.org/newsletter
Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
#Hyperledger #HyperledgerGlobalForum2018 #Blockchain
A
Let's
get
started
with
everybody's
experiences
with
blockchain
and
government
context,
so
if
you
could
tell
us
about
some
of
your
key
projects,
maybe
keep
it
to
off
four
minutes
each
maximum.
Just
so
they'll
be
twelve
minutes.
We
can
then
refer
back
to
them.
Sorry
refer
back
to
them
in
the
course
of
our
Q&A,
but
like
for
five
minutes,
each
all.
B
Right,
so
we
have
a
little
revolution
taking
place
in
the
by
when
it
comes
to
adoption
of
blockchain,
especially
the
private
permissioned
blockchain,
and
there's
a
context
of
why
this
is
being
done.
So
one
of
the
mandates
that's
been
received
by
the
leadership
of
the
city
is
that
12
December
2021
is
the
last
day
when
the
by
government
will
issue
or
receive
the
last
piece
of
paper
after
12
December
2021.
The
government
will
not
work
on
paper
now.
If
you
work
that
backwards.
B
That
means
that
me,
as
a
resident
of
the
city
I,
have
to
go
through
a
lot
of
journeys
today,
through
with
different
government
entities
in
which,
for
me
to
complete
a
transaction
I
have
to
interact
with
multiple
government
entities
and
I
have
to
carry
a
lot
of
paper
from
one
government
entity
to
another.
So,
what's
being
done,
is
that
they've
identified
almost
70
for
journeys
such
as
car
registration,
renewal,
visa
renewal,
buying,
a
house
leasing,
a
house
setting
up
a
business,
and
all
of
these
processes
are
being
migrated
to
a
blockchain
based
environment.
B
Why
blockchain,
because
blockchain
provides
an
ideal
trust,
vehicle
and
platform
for
government
entities
to
interact
with
one
another
through
smart
contracts?
These
are
very
important
decisions
that
government
entities
have
to
take
so
a
mere
API
integration
or
a
bbm
tool
will
not
solve
this
problem.
So
this
is
the
context
of
what
is
happening
in
the
way
and
what
the
way
government
is
trying
to
achieve.
My
company
is
been
involved
very
closely
in
a
lot
of
projects.
B
The
first
project
that
Dawei
government
has
launched,
which
is
a
production
grade
implementation,
is
a
reconciliation
and
settlement
of
government
funds
across
40
government
entities
and
Dean
Thanks,
so
we've
got
a
payment
gateway
in
Dubai
called
the
buy
pay.
This
is
the
government's
payment
gateway
and
it
helps
me
pay
my
traffic
fines.
It
helps
me
pay
have
a
you
know,
top
of
my
Road
toll,
so
they're
40
government
entities
that
are
integrated
with
it.
B
So
what
we've
done
in
our
project
that
we've
delivered
for
the
big
government
that
it
used
to
take
30
to
35
days,
almost
40
days
for
Department
of
Finance
to
reconcile
funds
across
all
40
government
entities
and
15
banks,
because
they
are
the
custodians
of
city's
revenue,
the
project
that
we've
implemented
now
the
reconciliation
happens
instantly.
As
in
when
a
transaction
happens,
this
immediate
consensus
amongst
all
parties
and
the
transaction
is
reconciled.
We've
got
12
million
transactions
stamped
on
the
system.
B
Today
we
officially
went,
live
in
October,
we've
been
light
since
February,
but
there
was
a
parallel
one
happening
and
this
is
a
full
production
grade
implementation.
This
is
not
a
POC,
not
a
pilot,
not
a
lab
project.
We
receive
50,000
transactions
every
day
in
the
system.
This
is
on
fabric
1.1
and
in
addition
to
this
project,
we
are
involved
in
half
a
dozen
other
production
grade,
implementations
from
property,
rentals
to
exit
and
entry
of
containers
from
different
free
zones
to
you
know
different
government
services.
So
I'll
stop
here.
Thank
you.
So.
C
We
are
mainly
working
on
three
projects.
Number
one
is
very
interesting:
that's
the
running
the
Saudis
census
over
blockchain,
so
we
don't
be
sensors.
We
do
some
analysis,
and
that
says,
and
we
done
for
the
10
years.
So
what
we
wanted
to
do
is
to
create
and
make
every
single
individual
as
an
asset
on
blockchain
and
that
everybody
everything
we've
recorded
if
it's
getting
vaccinated
is
getting
education,
a
grant
from
for
a
scholarship
or
anything
and
it's
very
transparent,
any
mutable.
C
So
anybody
can
come
and
look
in
what's
happening
to
that
particular
person,
and
then
we
can
make
the
growth
of
that
person
down
the
line
for
five
years
for
ten
years
for
20
years,
and
we
can
predict
on
top
of
that
as
well.
Second
period
we
are
working
on
is
the
creating
of
framework
aspired
from
Darwinian
evolution
for
the
duration
of
crap
currencies,
how
the
crypto
currencies
will
evolve
and
where
it
will
be
in
five
years
and
ten
years
time
what
the
natural
selection
means.
What
is
survival
of?
C
The
fittest
means
how
you
define
fittest
in
the
in
the
in
the
terms
of
crypto
currencies
and
the
third
one
is
what
we
call
algorithmic
put
because
all
of
the
same
price
thing
the
government
is
the
provider
of
the
truth
that
you
know
this
is
this:
is
IDs
verifier
or
classes
verified?
So
if
you
move
that
truth
responsibly
to
algorithms,
what
it
will
look
like
and
how
can
money
be
smart,
so
money
is
a
very,
very
dumb
construct
if
I'm
spending
it
for
illicit
activity
is
a
pornography
or
anything
else.
C
It
is
an
complain,
but,
as
we
have
my
easement
concept
in
the
real
estate
that
this
blood
is
only
for
orphanage
or
only
for
a
school
that
cannot
be
used
for
anything
else,
so
I
can
give
the
taxes
to
government
and
say
okay,
I'm,
giving
you
this
taxes.
But
you
cannot
use
this
money
to
raise
a
war
on
some
on
somebody,
and
if
we
start
using
this
money
for
a
digital
process,
it
will
complain.
It
will
here
start
shouting
the
day.
I
am
NOT
going
there.
C
So
can
we
give
money
its
own
brain
and
then
what
believes
that
you
should
give?
Should
you
follow
up
Christianity
or
Islam?
What
is
social
values?
How
it
would
the
world
so
I
might
have
the
money
and
I'm
going
to
buy
the
car
and
money
might
come
back
and
say
you
cannot
buy
the
car
because
there
are
poor
people
time
somewhere
in
the
world,
just
very,
very
tricky,
but
yeah,
it's
more
kind
of
philosophical
and
theoretical
I
will
need
a
PR
person.
So
these
are
three
breaks
that
you
are
working
on.
D
It
has
been
like
in
this
new
government
that
is
happy,
that
is
that
we
just
elected
this
year,
there's
a
lot
of
interesting
blockchain
as
a
way
of
creating
a
platform
for
people
to
be
more
involved
in
what
they're
doing
with
the
government
and
also
to
create
like
a
bigger
sense
of
transparency
in
what
are.
What
is
the
government
spending?
A
Terrific
I
mean
so
we
have
quite
a
range
of
actual
use
cases
here.
Pretty
much
everything
in
Dubai
apparently
is
going
on
to
a
blockchain.
There
is
the
idea
of
where
should
one's
charitable
nations
be
directed,
amongst
other
things,
in
Saudi
Arabia,
to
ensure
that
when
citizen
in
trust
money
to
the
government,
is
it
actually
spent
as
anticipated
and
then
in
terms
of
government
procurement
reform?
How
can
you
actually
invite
citizens
to
evaluate
bids
for
the
government,
which
is
quite
a
radical
proposition?
Excuse
me
I,
think
we're
having
a
bit
of
interference.
A
That
would
be
great.
Thank
you.
So
let's
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
you
see
as
the
main
benefits
or
potentials
of
blockchain
for
government
transformation
today,
as
well
as
in
the
future,
or
if
you
see
a
counter-narrative,
then
also
would
like
to
hear
that
and
maybe
we'll
go
and
reverse
for
this
one.
So
Martine,
are
you
ready
to
start
okay.
D
So
almost
most
decisions
at
the
moment
are
being
taken
by
a
pulse,
but
this
would
allow
more
you
know,
first,
more
people
to
go
both
second,
more
people
to
trust
that
this
boats
were
actually
counted
and
went
inches
and
went
into
the
thing
that
they
were
voting
for
it
there's
a
lot
of
corruption,
even
in
voting
and
first,
to
actually
see
results
and
to
get
like
dashboards
of
what's
happening
and
what's
going
on
in
the
future.
Maybe
we're
talking
about
this
proposal
that
blockchain
could
be
used
to
automate
the
whole
government
as
laws.
C
Okay
yeah,
so
the
biggest
benefits
we
see
on
blockchain
for
governments
is
number
one
is
the
inclusion
and
second
one
is
a
transparency
so
based
on
different
things,
even
on
sensors.
So
if
you
are
living
in
a
house,
you
can
be
counted.
If
you
are
living
under
the
bridge
and
attained
you
are
homeless.
You
cannot
be
counted
any
of
the
registers
if
you're
not
getting
counting.
You
know
you
cannot
get
anything.
So
a
blockchain
provides
us
a
way
to
merge
all
of
the
datasets
into
the
one
platform,
and
then
everybody
can
see
it.
C
So
it's
more
and
more
transparent.
It's
not
that
I
can
include
X
to
anybody,
I
wish
and
and
the
other
the
funding
that
we
are
providing
to
the
citizens
through
education
or
scholarships
or
for
health
benefits.
Anybody
can
come
and
and
and
and
and
verify
it
if
it
is,
it
is
delivered
to
the
particular
citizen
or
not.
So
these
are
the
two
very
beneficial
yeah.
B
So
I
mean
if
we
take
a
step
back.
The
first
thing
that
we
need
to
understand
is
that
every
city
has
to
carve
out
their
respective
blockchain
journeys.
The
objectives
that
a
manufacturing
city
will
have
from
a
technology
like
blockchain
are
going
to
be
very
different
from
a
city
that
is
a
tourist
hub
from
a
city
that
is
a
port
city
or
a
services
city,
so
how
that
city
needs
to
utilize
or
consume
this
technology
is
for
the
city
to
identify
and
companies
like
ourselves.
B
We
help
them
identify
and
do
that
now,
once
you've
identified
the
objective.
For
example,
we
work
in
in
countries
in
Africa
where
land
records
is
a
big
problem.
I
mean
you
must
have
all
heard
of
the
colonel
and
record
project.
The
reason
why
Ghana
adopted
blockchain
and
they
wanted
to
put
land
records
on
blockchain
is
because,
in
that
country,
every
citizen
has
either
filed
a
lawsuit
about
land
or
is
accused
of
a
land
rigidly
related
issue.
So
for
that
country
that
was
a
problem
to
be
solved.
The
Dubai
example
that
I
gave
you
the
by.
B
He
has
figured
out
a
way
to
improve
the
efficiency
in
their
economy
by
going
paperless,
right
and
and
plus
they
want
to
do
ease
customer
journeys.
The
country
that
I
come
from,
which
is
originally
Pakistan.
We've
got
our
own
problems
back
home,
fake
education
certificates,
tax
evasion,
health
records,
so
there
are
different
problems
to
which
blockchain
technology
can
be
applied.
The
benefit
that
a
technology
not
blockchain
brings
is
first
of
all
transparency.
So
the
single
version
of
truth,
which
nobody
can
corrupt,
is
the
biggest
advantage.
B
Transparency
is
another
one,
and
efficiency
is
the
third
one,
so
you
can
actually
make
a
difference
in
people's
lives
and
improve
governance
through
a
technology
like
blockchain.
So
due
to
me
personally,
it's
it's
not
a
luxury
it,
it's
a
technology
that
can
really
make
a
difference,
especially
in
government's
who
are
struggling
to
deliver
for
their
citizens.
B
I'll
obviously
quote
a
problem
from
from
where
I
come
from,
so
in
UAE
the
whole
digital
government
transformation
that
I
told
you
that
different
journeys
are
being
put
on
blockchain
and
the
way
government
entities
will
interact
with
one
another
will
be
paperless
and
on
blockchain.
Now
none
of
this
is
going
to
start
if
I'm
having
to
go
and
sign
pieces
of
paper
as
an
individual
right.
So
the
first
thing
that
you
need
for
this
entire
automation
to
go
ahead
is
a
digital.
Id
I
should
have
a
digital
ID.
B
That
should
be
a
legal
equivalent
of
my
signature,
whether
I'm
going
to
a
notary
whether
I'm
going
to
the
court
or
whether
I'm
availing
any
government
services.
So
in
UAE
we've
got
a
digital
ID
called
UAE
pass.
Currently
it's
not
on
blockchain,
it
they're
migrating
it
to
blockchain,
but
for
any
kind
of
government.
Digital
government
transformation.
I
think
ID
has
to
be
the
first
building
block
in
a
very
comprehensive
manner
and
then
get
consumed
across
all
journeys
and
all
government
services.
That's.
C
What
I
think
so?
We
have
a
very
strange
problem,
so
the
area
so
what
we
found
if
we'd
convert
everything
to
digital
ID,
we
need
the
receivers
for
those
digital
IDs
as
well.
For
example,
if
you
are
going
into
our
military
installation
there
would
be
a
guard
on
the
gate.
You
will
show
them
the
ID
and
it
will
let
you
in
so.
C
We
don't
have
the
receiver
ain't
ready
or
to
be
asked
to
accept
the
digital
ID,
and
so
this
is,
as
you
said,
every
city
every
organization
has
his
own
fingerprints
on
dynamics
and
we
need
to
work
on
say
there
is
no
silver
bullet
for
all.
So
we
are
thinking
of
what
are
the
quick
wins
and
the
short
cases
where
we
can
implement
it
and
see
how
it
goes.
C
D
So
we
actually
proposed
the
system
to
the
government
that
we
call
a
less
area
which
was
an
identity
management
system,
and
again
we
had
certain
problems
with
its
implementation,
which
were
not
technical.
Technically
it
can.
It
can
be
done.
Of
course
it
has
been
done,
but,
of
course,
in
a
sense
of
of
Mexico
is
you
have
said,
like
every
city
has
its
own
path.
D
We
found
that,
for
instance,
we
a
lot
of
the
people
that
were
having
that
we're
having
you
know
that
we're
using
this
the
system
thought
well,
if
we're
using
blockchain,
maybe
my
identity
could
be
managed
or
could
be
validated
by
different
people.
Maybe
we
could
have
other,
we
could
have
other
entities
actually
validating
if
my
information
is
correct
or
not.
D
Second,
for
a
digit
like
digital,
a
universal
digital
system
to
work,
you'd
need
at
least
you
could
need
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
people,
not
only
government,
but
you
know
private
companies,
private
banks,
private
all
the
way,
all
the
way
from
the
top,
all
the
way
to
the
you
know
to
the
grocery
store
to
accept
their
ideas.
A
way
of
as
a
way
of
you
know
we
as
a
way
of
not
having
multiple
sources
of
truth,
but
having
you
know
an
unified
source
of
truth.
A
Building
off
of
that
point,
I
think
that
one
thing
that
was
raised
here
was
that
blockchain
can
be
used
to
build
new
infrastructure
where
there
was
none
or
it
can
be
used
to
replace
existing
infrastructures
and
be
very
interested
to
hear
your
opinions
or
experiences
on
is
one
a
better
entry
point
for
blockchain
than
the
other?
Are
they
both
valid
or
is
it
difficult
either
way
so
we'll
go
in
Reverse.
C
Completely
Pressman,
you
find
it
very,
very
hard
people
come
and
suggest
us
different
companies
come
consulting
companies.
Ie,
you
can
add
up
the
system.
It
will
replace
your
old
system
altogether.
What
we
found
that,
if
we
ignore
the
legacy
systems
that
we
already
have
in
place,
because
in
Gorman's
all
of
the
systems
are
connected
to
each
other.
So
if
you
are
talking
about
driving,
license
is
connected
to
passport.
C
B
So,
building
on
what
is
Ishaan
said,
so
we
need
to
understand
what
roles
existing
ERP
is
play
and
then,
where
does
blockchain
come
in
so
when
ERP
has
been
acquired
by
or
implemented
by
an
entity
to
automate
the
internal
workings
of
that
organization?
Right?
So
you
don't
want
to
touch
that
because
they
have,
over
the
years
improved
and
automated
their
internal
working.
The
blockchain
layer
comes
into
play
when
this
entity
wants
to
talk
to
the
outside
world.
Right,
we
say:
blockchain
use
cases
are
typically
multi
organization
use
cases
to
me.
B
B
So,
in
my
opinion,
blockchain
will
not
replace
existing
year
peace
because
those
ERP
czar
implemented
for
that
organizations
departments
to
interact
with
one
another,
but
when
you
want
to
go
out
and
interact
with
the
third
entity
or
second
entity
in
a
trusted
environment
through
smart
contracts,
maintaining
the
single
version
of
truth,
that's
where
blockchain
will
play
a
role
so
you'll
always
have
earpiece
feeding
data
into
blockchain
or
fetching
data
from
blockchain,
at
least
for
the
foreseeable
future.
Unless
something
changes
drastically.
B
D
So,
at
least
for
me,
I
fingered
lies
for
in
Mexican
use,
khazars
and
argument
to
be
made
that
you
could
actually,
you
know,
completely,
replace
and
create
a
new
system
for
accrete
like
create
the
system
in
which
you
change
its
system
separately,
because
a
lot
of
the
systems
we
have
actually
do
not
connect
to
each
other.
We
have
problems,
I
mean
even
connecting
like
to
medical
to
medical
institutions
that
are
that
are
no,
you
know,
are
no
further
than
like
one
kilometer,
two
kilometers
away.
D
So
there's
an
argument
to
be
made
that
you
could
create
a
small
system
and
this
system
could
be
further.
You
know
further
expanded,
so
you
could
start
connecting
all
these
other
notes
and
at
some
point
have
them
all
connected.
However,
for
a
lot
of
organizations,
yeah
I
think
maybe
you
know
completely
changing
and
rewriting
the
whole
logic.
Is
you
know
quite
it?
It
requires
a
lot.
It
requires
a
lot
of
effort
and
it
may
be
really
costly
and
actually
might
not
be
worth
it.
A
Thank
you
so
a
question
here
then,
is
it's
very
unusual
to
have
a
situation
like
Dubai
I,
think
in
which
there
is
a
wholesale
embraced
by
the
government,
as
well
as
a
mandate
that
there
must
be
changed.
So
that
is
one
I,
think
extreme
case
scenario
of
absolute
push,
and
you
know
no
room.
It
seems
for
opposition
internally
to
debate
about
doing
it
a
different
way
for
situations
in
which
there
is
not
that
unified
point
of
view,
which
I
think
is
typical
in
many
governments.
A
So
one
question
is:
how
do
you
engage
with
the
government
in
which
and
I'm
sure
that
you've
worked
in
other
situations
outside
of
Dubai,
so
you
could
bring
in
some
of
that
use
case
where
there
is
a
an
interest,
but
also
a
concern
about
the
risk
or
the
utility
of
blockchain.
And
how
do
you
get
to
a
point
of
finding
a
valid
use
case
in
this
sort
of
mixed
environment.
B
Yeah,
so
also
in
addition
to
the
body
you
have
countries
city-states
smaller
structured
economies,
such
as
Singapore
in
Malta
in
Estonia,
which
are
embracing
this
technology
at
a
much
faster
pace
and
it's
easier
for
them
smaller.
You
know,
population
size
is
base
fitness
level.
Is
there
there
at
a
certain
state
of
automation
and
they
can
afford
to
take
the
next
leap?
But
then
we
also
work
in
emerging
economies
where,
like
you
said
it,
it's
not
easy
and
and
the
drive
is
not
from
the
leadership.
B
So,
for
that
to
happen,
you
have
to
go
after
use
cases
which
solve
a
real
problem
which,
through
which
you
can
show
the
real
benefit
of
this
technology,
to
the
government
or
even
to
the
parties
who
are
opposing
this
and
then
there's
an
open
debate.
The
typicals
from
from
a
business
side
of
you,
the
sale
cycles
that
are
you
know,
involved
in
a
blockchain
implementation
are
probably
three
times
the
sale
cycle
of
just
going
ahead
and
selling
an
ERP
to
a
tour
to
an
organization.
B
Now
in
doing
that,
lobbying,
what
we
normally
do
is
we
go
to
the
regulator,
somebody
who
can
slam
an
agenda
on
the
table
and
then
rally
other
participants
around
it.
In
some
cases
it
is
easy
it
it
some
cases
it
it's
hard,
but
if
I
have
to
set
up
a
financial
regulation
and
supervision
platform,
we've
recently
unveiled
one
in
in
UAE
last
week
to
curb
invoice
discounting
frauds.
B
We
have
huge
invoice
discounting
frauds
and
we've
set
up
a
platform
through
which,
if
an
invoice
has
been
financed
by
one
bank,
the
other
bank
will
now
know
that
this
invoice
has
been
financed.
So
this
is
an
AI
ml
and
blockchain
implementation.
Now
we
went
to
the
biggest
telco
of
the
country
because
we
wanted
a
service
provider,
a
neutral
service
provider
who
could
launch
this
as
a
service,
and
we
went
to
a
consortium
of
banks.
B
We've
got
a
consortium
of
banks
called
UB,
fue
bankers
Federation,
because
if
I
was
to
go
and
sell
this
solution
to
one
bank,
it
would
never
take
off.
So
you
go
to
parties
and
entities
who
have
enough
muscle
and
skin
in
the
game
to
relly
other
participants
behind
the
idea,
once
they're
sold
on
the
idea,
and
then
they
do
the
hard
work
for
you.
But
it's
not
easy.
I
mean
because
there's
always
a
consortium
involved
in
multiple
organization
involved
and
you're,
typically
doing
a
sector
level.
Implementation.
C
So,
on
top
of
what
worker
says
that
we
are
quite
skeptical
and
we
are
working
against
those
lobbies,
so
what
happens
is
where
the
new
buzzword
comes
in?
Everybody
wants
to
jumps
in,
so
everybody
was
solving
everything
under
the
Sun
with
cloud
computing
and
then
blockchain,
and
now
we
have
computing
everything
else.
So
after
trial
and
error,
we
come
up
with
a
small
frame.
What
we
call
it
dirty.
So
your
problem
needs
to
be
dirty
enough
to
be
a
solved
by
blockchain.
C
What
dirty
means
is
DS
for
diverse
set
of
stakeholders
and
data,
so
it
needs
to
be
diverse.
Is
for
immutability
if
there's
requirement
and
intermediaries,
if
there
are
no
intermediaries,
what
you
are
removing,
if
you
part
you
want
to
talk
into
party
B,
you
don't
need
a
blockchain
in
the
first
place.
C
R
is
the
repetitive
process
that
are
well
suited
for
automation,
as
you
said
that
you
know
can
easily
be
applied
Automation
at
easeful
cross
for
what
you
are
transferring
transfer
of
value,
transfer,
of
talking,
transfer
of
money,
transfer
of
digital
assets
and
wise
for
transparency.
Do
you
need
a
transparency
and
transparencies
a
very,
very
wet
term,
so
sometimes
we
need
a
local
transparency
on
a
local
level.
Sometimes
we
need
a
global
transparency
so
for
in
Pakistan
we
have
nhadra,
which
is
the
national
data
base.
Authority
for
I
have
4
ID
cards.
C
Do
you
need
to
give
it
whistle
you
will
do
the
rest
of
the
world?
No,
you
just
you
know
in
particular
office.
So
what
label
you
need
is
transparency
for.
So,
if
you
have
yes
in
all
tick
marks
with
all
of
those
dirty,
then
then
it's
a
good
POC
or
maybe
you
know
you
look
further.
If
there
is
none
or
if
you
are
missing
some
points,
we
just
do
not
even
talk
about
it,
and
then
we
stop
this
Lobby
stated
we
are
not
interested
so.
D
Basically,
the
way
we
manage
you
know
the
the
way
we
manage
risk
in
Mexico,
at
least
for
an
implementation
and
blockchain
is
we
check
you
know
to
validate
of
POC
scorpius
correct
for
ourselves
or
not
we
go
through
it.
We
do
similar
system,
we
go
through
every
you
like
feature
that
they
need
for
blockchain,
which
I
can
do
we
check
if
all
of
them,
if
they
actually
need
all
of
them
it.
D
They
are
actually
trying
to
use
this
technology
instead
of
just
wanting
to
have
their
product
with
the
blockchain
label
on
it
and
one
of
the
problems
we
have
found,
at
least
in
trying
to
implement
that
and
something
that
has
stopped
Mexico
a
lot
a
lot
of
times
on
actually
going
ahead
and
doing
it.
You
know
going
and
distributing
a
new.
The
new
system
is
that
in
Mexico
there
are
not
quite
a
lot
of
people
that
are
working
on
blockchain
there's
just
like
a
week
ago.
There
they
just
issued
these
love
for
these
lots.
D
You
know
to
illegal
look,
it's
not
legalized,
but
to
regularly
block
to
regulate
blockchain,
either
in
a
cryptocurrency,
but
also
as
a
development
platform.
Where
do
not
have
enough
watching
developers,
it
is
really
costly
to
develop
right
now
in
Mexico
using
blockchain.
So
many
companies
are
not
actually
going
on
board.
It
costs
about
five
times
a
solution
that
is
using
block
to
New
Mexico
costs
at
least
five
times
more
than
and
solution.
Thus,
and
there
is
no
guarantee
that
you'll
have
the
required
developers
of
the
required
support
in
a
few
years.
D
So
for
us
it
has
been
these
two
parts
first
trying
to
get
enough
developers
and
trying
to
get.
You
know
the
government
to
actually
put
more
money
into
universities
so
that
more
people
can
learn
about
this
and
to
get
more
professionals
into
the
market
and,
second
of
all,
to
validate
this.
These
use
cases
depending
off
on
if
they
actually
hit
all
these
points
on
whether
their
solution
would
be
better
at
with
blockchain
or
with
something
else.
A
C
So
I
believe
it
will
work
against
the
government
and
that's
one
of
the
biggest
issues.
That
government
is
afraid
of
that.
If
you
give
the
response
to
be
of
codes
from
government
to
algorithms,
algorithms
have
the
final
authority
and
government
will
lose
all
of
their
powers,
and
you
know
so.
That's
that's
one.
There's
one
of
the
issue.
B
Yeah
in
our
experience
at
times,
it's
not
the
whole
government
that
gets
corrupted
for
for
multiple
reasons:
it's
either
a
department,
a
unit
within
a
department,
individuals
who
are
compromised
and
in
these
in
this
context,
I
think
blockchain
is
going
to
hell
today.
If
it
just
takes
an
update
query
for
somebody
to
go
and
override
somebody's
land
record
or
alter
somebody's
health
records
or
their
tax
records
after
blockchain
they'll
not
be
able
to
do
that,
because
the
data
is
not
held
with
that
government
entity
or
that
unit
it
is
replicated
across.
B
You
know
many
other
government
entities
as
well
as
private
entity,
so
healthcare
records
are
available
with
hospitals,
as
well
as
with
the
Health,
Authority
or
the
ministry.
So
it
will
bring
more
transparency.
It
will
obviously
release
the
control
from
a
particular
department
or
a
particular.
You
know,
unit
of
or
function
of
the
government,
but
it
will
definitely
bring
more
transparency
and
there'll.
Be
opposition
they'll
be
resistance
to
this.
You
know
people
have
vested
interest
in
these
things.
Yeah.
D
D
Companies
have
different
versions
of
the
Spirit
like
the
or
they
live,
how
much
they're
winning
how
much
they're
making
how
much
they're
spending,
and
so
also
for
there
are
certain
companies
that
have
like
this,
that
the
same
person,
but
with
different
names,
different
data
for
that
matter,
and
so
this
would
bring
like
a
way
of
actually
validating
who
this
person
is,
how
they,
how
they
identify
and
what
their
you
know.
Their
identity,
which,
with
all
the
information
that
is
until
you
know,
is
its
contained.
A
So,
given
that
we
are
I
think
at
the
last
seven
or
so
minutes
in
our
panel
we
have
two
potential
futures
that
we
should
decide
together.
One
is
the
audience:
has
an
opportunity
to
ask
questions
of
our
panelists.
The
other
is
we
continue
to
go
through
these
moderated
questions
of
which
they're
more
than
we
could
answer
in
this
time?
If
you
would
like
to
see,
have
the
opportunity
to
ask
questions,
why
don't
you
perhaps
raise
your
hand?
I
have
one
two.
Oh
three:
okay,
panelist.
How
are
you
feeling?
A
B
All
right,
thank
you
for
the
question,
so
the
first
part
of
your
question.
Yes,
these
are
different
government
entities
that
are
part
of
a
blockchain,
so
the
first
use
case
that
we
did
was
reconciliation
and
settlement
of
government
funds,
so
there
are
around
65
nodes,
so
forty
government
entities
and
fifteen
banks-
and
they
achieve
consensus
for
the
consensus
to
happen.
There
are
only
three
parties
that
are
needed,
so
I'm,
referring
to
the
EE
pay
example
or
the
reconciliation
of
settlement
funds.
B
So
imagine
I
am
going
to
the
website
of
a
government
entity,
say
I'm,
going
to
Dubai
police's
website
to
pay
my
traffic
fines
right.
So
the
way
police
will
have
this
transaction
stamp
in
their
ERP
even
today.
The
second
participant
of
this
transaction
is
the
payment
gateway.
Payment
gateway
also
has
a
node.
Even
today
they
stamp
this
transaction
in
their
audit
logs
and
their
you
know.
Whatever
system
they
have.
The
third
participant
of
this
transaction
is
my
bank.
B
Will
the
actual
debit
of
my
account
has
happened
and
the
bank
has
updated
their
core
banking
system
so
they're
the
third
entity
now
for
the
consensus
to
achieve
for
all
of
these
three
entities
during
a
transaction
for
them
to
give
a
thumbs
up
into
the
system
and
say
yes,
we
agree
this
transaction
has
taken
place.
You
only
need
consensus
between
these
three
parties.
B
No,
no!
It's
in
the
coded
it
it's
it's
in
the
code,
so
we
are
you
using
fabric
1.1.
So
we
use
the
standard.
You
know,
consensus
algorithm
that
comes
comes
with
fabric
1.1.
So
even
though
there
are
65
nodes,
the
consensus
is
required
by
three
participants
only
because
if
my
bank
is
Emirates
NBD
but
there's
another
bank
called
the
by
Islamic
bank,
that
Bank
has
no
role
in
this
consensus
and
actually
they're
very
spectacle
skeptical
of
having
data
on
other
nodes,
so
the
channels
is
an
is
another
important
consideration.
B
It's
it's
a
proper
consensus,
so
the
smart
contract,
the
transaction,
gets
stamped
on
the
blockchain
node
through
the
smart
contract,
and
then
everybody
else
execute
their
respective
consensus
mechanism.
So
this
is
how
consensus
is
achieved,
and
you
know,
even
when
there
are
different
other
problems
such
as
property,
rental
and
other.
So,
in
some
cases,
blockchain
is
being
used
to
work
as
a
trusted
business
process
management
tool
as
well,
so
we're
doing
a
mortgage
blockchain
implementation,
for
example,
where
when
a
mortgage
process
starts,
the
entire
process
is
stamped
on
the
blockchain.
B
So
when
the
valuation
of
the
property
happens,
the
valuation
company
stamps
the
results
on
the
blockchain
so
that
the
customer
gets
to
view
it,
the
land
department
gets
to
view
it,
and
the
bank
department
gets
to
view
it
when
all
three
of
them
agree.
The
transaction
moves
to
the
next
stage.
So
in
some
cases
start
smart
contracts
are
being
used
to
push
the
business
process
from
one
stage
to
it
to
another,
with
everybody's
endorsement.
B
Okay,
I'll
come
to
that
problem.
Now
there
is
no
public
access
for
all
of
these
services,
because
all
these
government
entities
already
have
their
portals
through
which
I
can
initiate
a
transaction.
I
can
initiate
a
mortgage
through
the
bank's
online
portal.
Even
today,
right
I
can
initiate
the
the
property
rental
process
through
the
property
management
website.
It's
the
background
dealing
between
these
organizations
that
is
being
done
on
so
blockchain
is
like
HTTP
protocol
I.
Don't
care
what
protocol
internet
uses
I
just
want
my
Gmail
service
right,
so
it
that's
the
context.
B
Should
I
yeah
all
the
time?
This
is
a
practical
world
we
live
in
and
it
is
exactly
like
reversals
that
you
do.
In
a
banking
environment,
you
have
to
have
a
compensating
transaction
with
everybody's
consent.
You
can't
just
willy-nilly
go
ahead
and
say:
oops
I
made
a
mistake.
Let
me
just
add
it
it.
Even
when
you
design
a
compensating
transaction,
there
is
a
consensus
mechanism,
so
you
have
to
provision
for
these
compensating
scenarios
while
you're
designing
an
application
that
these
are.
B
C
We
call
it
truth
so
because
truth
has
different
versions,
so
something
that's
truth
like
three
years
ago
might
not
be
true
now,
so
somebody
made
it
to
somebody
and
then
he
divorced
and
it
got
married
like
three
years
ago,
I
was
last
year
now
I'm
married
to
somebody
else.
So
if
the
connection
is
immutable,
whenever
you
check
the
record
is
reverse
to
the
same
person
is
married
to
the
same
person,
which
is
not
the
case.
C
B
And
then
there's
another
scenario
by
the
way,
so
I'll
just
add
to
what
you're
saying
even
smart
contracts
are
not
set
in
stone.
So,
for
example,
today
you
might
write
a
smart
contract
in
which
you
have
certain
Commission's
and
charges
that
you've
applied
on
the
smart
contract
right.
If
it's
a
transaction,
you
want
to
pay
a
commission
or
something
tomorrow.
B
Those
figures
will
change,
so
there
has
to
be
mechanism
in
which
a
smart
contract
can
be
updated,
and
you
have
to
keep
this
provision
in
your
design
that
transactions
that
were
done
before
date,
X
use
a
certain
version
of
smart
contract
and
the
next
version
of
smart
contract
is
used
after
date
X.
So
these
are
sort
of
things
that
you
have
to
provision
for
as
well.
In
a
blockchain
environment.
E
B
So
today,
if
any
one
of
you
there's
so
many
developers
in
the
room,
so
when
you
deploy
a
smart
contract
on
hyper
ledger
today,
how
do
you
do
it
come
online
right?
So
the
entire
security
of
blockchain
is
thrown
out
of
the
window.
If
you,
as
a
champion
of
that
use
case,
can
just
go
ahead
and
deploy
a
smart
contract
without
anyone
else,
knowing
what
you've
written
in
that
smart
contract
right,
the
other
participants
of
the.
So
this
is
a
problem
that
we've
solved
through
our
own
blockchain
orchestration
layer
called
cypher.
B
We've
got
a
blockchain
orchestration
and
governance
layer
on
which
we've
got
ready-made
adapters
for
different
block
chains
and
the
governance
piece
of
it
takes
care
of
this
problem.
Exactly
so,
we've
written
a
mechanism
through
which,
when
a
smart
contract
is
deployed,
all
the
participants
first
have
to
endorse
that
smart
contract.
They
have
to
say
yes,
we
agree
whatever
is
written
in
the
smart
contract.
This
is
a
loophole
right
now
and
there
are
many
more
by
the
way
which
which
you
have
to
plug
till
the
technology.
Matures.
E
E
One
of
the
things
that
I
came
across
consistently
is
the
resistance
that
the
Civil
Service
has
against
reforms
in
general
and
blockchain,
and
adoption
of
a
blockchain
is
a
reform
now,
while
everybody
that
saw
the
British
sitcom
me
as
Minister
will
know
that
this
exists
everywhere
right,
it's
more
pronounced
in
certain
countries
in
other
exist
everyone.
The
type
of
reforms
that
can
be
can
be
implemented
by
blockchain,
are
essentially
those
are
provide,
immediate
relief
to
the
citizens,
so
they
will
be
adopted
and
pushed
by
the
citizens
like,
like
the
documents,
no
other.
E
That
could
be
useful
to
the
civil
service
body
like
increasing
the
efficiency
of
the
process,
but
but
there
are
another
one
essential
for
for
the
democracy,
which
is
increasing
the
transference
of
certain
areas
like
the
public
spending,
where
the
resistance
might
be
quite
strong.
Now,
in
this
context,
do
you
think
the
push
for
such
a
reform
should
come
from?
The
political
class
should
come
from
the
citizens
should
come
from
the
technological
lobbyists
from
international
organizations
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
What
is
your
experience
with
with
this?
Thank
you.
B
Yeah
so
yeah
as
technologists,
we
can
only
communicate
what
if
the
technology
can
deliver,
it's
not
our
place
to
go
and
become
a
reformist
we
should,
but
but
that
that
spaces
is
different.
I'll,
give
you
a
couple
of
examples,
so
we
were
reached
out
by
ITA
in
Oman,
ITA
is
Information,
Technology
Authority
and
they
came
to
us
and
they
said
we
want
to
adopt
blockchain.
How
do
we
do
it?
So
we
first
the
question.
The
question
may
be
really
qualify
for
for
blockchain
projects.
B
So
the
first
question
we
asked
them:
what
are
the
problem
areas
that
you
have
and
they
gave
us
a
list
of
different
problems,
but
when
we
probed
further
into
their
business
process,
we
realized
that
they
are
responsible
for
procurement
of
technology
assets
for
all
government
entities
in
Oman
right.
So,
even
if
somebody
wants
to
buy
Oracle
licenses,
somebody
wants
to
buy
an
HP
server.
Ita
Oman.
B
Does
that
procurement
on
their
behalf
and
there's
a
massive
leakage
in
that
procurement,
both
financial
as
well
as
in
terms
of
efficiency,
so
we
suggested
to
them
that
blockchain
can
help
you
solve
these
problems
and
then
we
solution
eyes.
The
whole
thing
for
them-
and
we
name
it
it's
months
and
months
of
deliberations
with
their
IT
teams
and
different
teams
till
the
whole
package,
was
taken
to
the
leadership.
That
is
all
we
can
do
beyond
that.