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From YouTube: Real Product Carbon Footprint to Achieve Decarbonization
Description
A presentation of the Hyperledger Climate Action and Acccounting Special Interest Group on July 13, 2021 featuring a presentation from CircularTree about Real Product Carbon Footprint to Achieve Decarbonization.
Many companies have set themselves targets by when they want to be carbon neutral. However, this does not mean that their products are carbon neutral. A study by the Carbon Disclosure Project has revealed that on average, 80% of the product carbon footprint comes through the supply chain.
The solution of CircularTree helps companies to measure their real carbon footprint. With blockchain technology, the biggest challenges can be overcome and ambiguity between trade partners is removed. Companies can get accurate, granular, and verified primary emissions data of their purchased materials and products. This transparency enables companies to provide real product carbon footprint information to their customers.
Gunther will explain how their solution is designed, provide some insights in their award winning pilot project with Porsche, BASF and Motherson and our strategy to achieve mass adoption of our approach.
To learn more about the Hyperledger Climate Action and Acccounting Special Interest Group and get involved, go to their site at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CASIG/
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A
A
A
A
A
If,
if
companies
nowadays
come
up
with
a
product
carbon
footprint,
this
is
typically
done
by
a
life
cycle
assessment.
This
is
sort
of
a
consulting
project
where
you
take
your
product
apart
into
its
different
pieces,
and
then
you
typically
look
up
the
values
in
databases.
In
those
databases,
they're
run
by
industry
associations,
there
you
have
average
data
and
then
you
have
two
problems.
The
first
problem
is,
you,
don't
have
your
true
carbon
footprint,
because
your
suppliers
may
be
better
or
worse
than
the
average
data.
A
The
second
and
even
even
more
important
problem.
Is
you
don't
have
any
leverage
to
improve
the
carbon
footprint
of
your
supply
chain
data
because
you
don't
have
the
true
value
and
what
you
can't
measure
you
can't
improve,
and
this
is
exactly
where
we
come
up
with
carbon
block.
We
want
to
measure
the
real
product
carbon
footprint
through
the
supply
chain
and
then
once
we
have
the
values
we
have
the
means
to
reduce
the
real
carbon
footprint
and
how
this
works
is.
A
A
Then
we
add
the
transportation,
the
carbon
footprint
of
the
transportation
to
the
next
supplier,
which
in
this
case
was
motherson
motherson,
reads
the
carbon
footprint
of
the
granulate.
They
add
the
carbon
footprint.
It
takes
them
to
make
one
bumper
out
of
the
granulate,
and
then
they
write
down
the
carbon
footprint
of
the
bumper
into
the
carbon
block
system.
A
Porsche
can
read
the
carbon
footprint
of
this
bumper
and
then
they
have
a
true
value
of
this
carbon
footprint,
and
if
they
do
this
with
all
of
their
suppliers,
then
porsche
can
really
have
a
real
product.
Carbon
footprint
based
on
real
values,
and
then
they
can
go
to
the
next
step
and
the
next
step
is
really
reducing
it
and
and
what
are
the
measures
to
reduce
it?
First
of
all,
they
could
say.
A
They
can
make
an
agreement
with
their
suppliers.
Saying:
okay,
your
product
power
and
footprint
now
is
at
that
level
and
let's
agree
to
reduce
the
carbon
footprint
of
your
product
by
40
every
year,
for
example,
or
if
your
suppliers
don't
want
to
to
agree
with
you
on
the
reduction.
You
can
say:
okay,
I'm
looking
for
a
different
supplier
who
provides
me.
The
carbon
footprint
is
a
product
with
a
lower
carbon
footprint.
C
D
A
This
is
sort
of
a
dashboard.
What
we
have
created-
and
here
you
see,
for
example,
scope,
1
and
scope
2
emissions.
Those
are
the
emissions
which
the
company
produces
itself.
These
are
the
sort
of
twenty
percent
on
average,
then
you
have
the
scope,
three
emissions
for
the
transportation,
and
then
here
you
can
see
this
is
a
scope,
three
emissions
for
input
materials
and
then
you
can
go
into
into
a
more
detailed
dashboard.
A
A
The
bigger
the
bubble
is
the
higher
is
the
carbon
footprint
of
the
supplier
and
if
they
are
less
than
the
target
value.
What
we
have
here,
for
example,
was
50.
Then
they
are
red
if
they're
better
than
they
are
green
and
if
they're
small
and
not
so
big,
then
we
have
them
yellow.
So
we
can
then
say:
okay,
let's
focus
on
the
suppliers
with
the
red
bubbles
because
they
have
the
biggest
impact
there.
We
can
achieve
the
biggest
improvements
by
working
with
them,
but
we
can
do
the
same
on
a
material
level.
A
Here
we
have
a
graph,
we
will
choose
a
material,
and
here
we
can
see
okay,
what
is
the
real
carbon
footprint
reduction?
What
is
the
supplier
average?
And
here
we
can
see
this
would
be
our
target.
So
here
we
see
this
material
is
not
yet
on
target
and
with
such
tools,
you
can
really
help
companies
to
find
the
most
efficient
ways
in
order
to
reduce
their
product.
Carbon
footprint.
E
E
E
E
Yeah,
let
me
get
to
the
blockchain,
so
carbon
block
uses
hyperledger
fabric,
which
I
guess
you're
glad
to
hear,
and
we
use
it
to
secure,
automate
and
connect
the
protocol
footprints
along
the
supply
chains.
And
what
we
quickly
found
out
when
talking
to
customers
is
that
we
should
offer
two
different
options.
E
The
first
one
is
maybe
a
bit
closer
to
the
original
philosophy
of
blockchain,
and
this
is
the
the
self-managed
option.
So
in
this
case
the
company
would
run
the
calculations
locally
and
then
once
they
have
calculated
a
protocol
footprint,
they
would
feed
it
into
the
blockchain
by
running
their
own
hyperledger
fabric
node.
E
But
we
also
offer
the
the
second
of
option
of
doing
this
as
software
as
a
service
which
makes
a
lot
of
sense
for
smaller
customers.
So
in
that
case
they
would
run
their
calculations
in
a
service
we
offer
as
circular
tree,
and
then
we
would
push
this
into
the
blockchain
by
our
own
appalachia
fabric
node
and,
as
I
stated
before,
the
data
storage
itself
and
the
calculations
occur
of
chain
for
one,
because
those
are
not
necessary
to
communicate
across
the
supply
chain.
E
And
the
main
reason
is
that
this
is
sensitive
information,
because
companies
certainly
don't
want
to
share
or
their
production
data
or
what
their
production
processes
look
like.
So
all
we
can
do
is
to
exchange
the
the
final
results
of
the
calculations,
and
this
is
what
we
do,
and
this
is
where
we
use
blockchain.
E
E
This
is
a
bit
complex
because
pcs
can
be
very
complex
and,
as
I
said,
a
lot
of
the
data
that
goes
into
the
calculation
must
remain
secret.
So
we
can't
really
do
these
calculations
within
a
smart
contract
on
the
blockchain.
But
what
we
do
instead
is
that
we
have
an
auditor
rule
so
selected.
Auditors
can
verify
the
pcf
calculations
with
the
company
and
then
prove
them
with
a
digital
signature
on
the
blockchain.
E
E
Our
second
use
case
is
automation,
not
so
much
of
the
calculation
itself.
This
happens
off-chain,
as
I
said
earlier,
but
of
the
cascading,
because
if
one
company
in
the
supply
chain
recalculates
a
pcf,
for
example,
because
they
have
become
more
sustainable
and
they
can,
they
have
more
efficient
processes,
for
example,
and
they
reduce
their
own
product
carbon
footprint.
E
Third,
application
is
interoperability.
One
nice
thing
about
blockchain
is
that
it's
very
standardized.
You
have
one
one
shared
system
and
in
this
system
you
can
open
source
the
code
of
your
smart
contracts,
and
this
allows
us
to
provide
a
standardized
interface
to
other
pcf
solutions,
which
is
of
course
important
to
us,
because
we
won't
be
representing
entire
supply
chains
from
the
start.
E
So
we
definitely
need
to
be
interoperable
with
with
other
solutions,
and
we
can
do
this
by
connecting
via
the
blockchain,
because
all
the
data
and
all
the
information
that
goes
there
is
standardized
and
has
an
open
source
basis.
So
we
can
can
integrate
our
solution
into
a
network
of
networks
yeah.
That
was
a
quick
dive
into
card
block
and
hyperledger
fabric
and
how
we
use
blockchain,
and
our
cartoon
will
continue.
C
Thank
you
elias.
We
just
we
are
sitting
next
to
each
other
in
one
room
contain
me.
So
let's
continue
with
what
we
are
currently
doing.
We
are
working
together
with
the
world
business
council
for
sustainable
development
and
they
invited
us
as
an
so
called
innovation.
Member,
and
what
you
can
see
here
is
screenshots
from
the
first
one
is
the
vision
paper.
We
can
also
send
them
you
via
email,
it's
just
like
everywhere,
everywhere
available
and
the
other
one
is
a
youtube
video.
What
the
project
is
about.
C
C
The
first
one
is
about
the
methodology
so
how
to
measure
a
product
carbon
footprint,
basically
in
between
companies
in
the
same
way,
so
that
everyone
really
measures
so
to
say
the
same
emissions,
and
here
it's
it's
very
much
dependent
or,
let's
say
comparable
to
lca
data,
so
the
product
analyzed
yeah
from
a
pro
product
perspective.
Instead
of
just
a
company
perspective.
C
The
second
working
group
is
to
develop
open
technology
standards
that
allow
for
secure
data
exchange
across
different
technology
solutions.
That's
exactly
what
elias
was
talking
about
with
the
interoperability,
so
as,
as
I
already
said,
we're
working
together
with
ibm,
sap
and
microsoft
and
google
just
joined
to
get
an
open
technology
standard
and
the
third
one
is
to
reach
a
wide
ecosystem.
Of
course,
the
system
lives
from
the
data
and
the
more
companies
are
part
of
the
whole
system.
C
The
more
accurate
the
whole
data
are
getting
and
we're,
starting
basically
with
the
fast
moving
consumer
goods
industry,
but
we
want
to
scale
up
fast
and
then,
of
course,
it's
also
a
solution
for
all
the
other
industries
and
what
our
solution.
Actually
values
is,
firstly,
of
course,
become
more
sustainable.
C
C
Also,
r
d
and
innovation
cycles
are
getting
much
more
efficient
same
as
the
corporate
reporting.
If
you
do
have
automated
pcf
calculations
you're
getting
much
much
more
efficient
processes,
especially
in
in
reporting
parts
and
last
but
not
least,
is
the
employee
engagement.
Employees
are
very
much
motivated
to
to
work
for
a
company
which
acts
more
sustainable.
C
Besides
those
values,
we
do
have
also
financial
value
opportunities.
That
is
also
from
the
wbcsd
vision
paper
and
first.
Firstly,
we
have
one
to
two
percent
of
revenue
per
year
of
avoided.
Offsetting
spend
because
I
mean
the
if
the
company
is
getting
more
sustainable
and
avoid
emissions,
and
they
really
reach
those
25
percent
of
less
pro
carbon
footprints.
C
They
can.
They
have
to
pay
less
offsetting.
A
second
one
is
top
line
growth
that
it
goes
hand-in-hand
with
the
fact
that
consumers
pay
more
for
more
sustainable
products
and
are
willing
to
purchase
the
sustainable
products.
So
it's
one
to
three
percent
of
revenue
per
year
for
top
line
growth
and
the
third
financial
opportunity
is
cost
savings
of
of
two
to
five
million
euros
per
year.
C
So
that
is
our
team.
It's
basically
the
three
of
us.
We
just
presented
the
solution
and
gunther's
brother
who,
founded
together
with
him
circulatory
acts
as
advisor
and
duo
young,
is
a
software
architect,
who's
supporting
some
of
our
projects.
We
do
have
also
some
other
project,
but
we
are
currently
focusing
very
much
on
carbon
block
yeah.
We
are
happy
to
answer
any
kind
of
questions
and
hope
you
enjoyed
our
talk.
D
F
A
F
F
And
it
becomes
a
very
hard
thing
to
measure
all
these
things.
I
mean
you
can
measure.
Obviously,
carbon
coming
out
of
a
smoke
stack,
but
you
can't
measure
you
know
if,
if,
if
one
factory
produces
a
widget
using
hand,
labor
and
one
produces
it
using
automation,
do
you
fact
how
do
you
factor
in
the
various
carbon
that
was
created
to
produce
the
automation.
A
Well,
I
think
I
think
thank
you
for
the
question,
but
typically,
if
you,
if
you
go
with
the
emissions,
you
have
scope
once
scope,
2
and
scope,
3
emissions
and
scope.
1
emissions
are
all
the
emissions
which
a
company
really
produces
by
themselves
on
their
premises.
So,
for
example,
if
they
burn
oil
or
gas,
it's
scope,
1
emissions.
A
The
second
thing
is
scope,
2
emissions.
That
means,
if
they
purchase
energy,
then
the
emissions
of
this
energy
are
calculated
under
scope,
2
emissions
and
scope,
1
and
scope
2
emissions
are
are
really
the
company
emissions,
and
this
is
what's
typically,
what's
typically
being
reported
nowadays
by
most
of
the
companies.
A
On
top
of
that,
thank
you
for
cutting
there.
She's
just
sharing
a
slide
here.
On
top
of
this,
you
have
scope,
3
emissions
and
the
scope.
3
emissions
are
divided
by
scope,
3
upstream
and
scope
3
downstream.
That
means
scope.
3
upstream,
is
all
what
what
comes
into
from
your
suppliers
and
scope.
3
downstream
is
everything
which
comes
after
you
have
sold
your
product
in
the
life
cycle
of
the
product,
and
here
we
are
focusing
on
the
scopes
through
the
upstream
emission
for
purchase
goods
and
services.
A
G
A
More
difficult-
and
this
is
part
of
the
world
business
council
pathfinder
project-
is
breaking
the
emissions
down
into
a
certain
product.
This
is
what
what
is
a
little
bit
more
complicated,
especially
if
you
go
into
the
chemical
industry.
If
you,
for
example,
have
three
or
four
input
fluids
into
into
into
one
gasket
gasket,
you
say
and
and
then
you
have
two
or
three
output
fluids
or
gases.
For
example,
how
do
you
distribute
the
input
emissions
into
the
output
emissions?
F
Yeah,
well,
I
guess
I
was.
I
was
looking
at
what
I
would
call
for
the
moment:
scope
4,
which
is
infrastructure,
if
you,
if
you,
if
you,
if
one
factory
uses
a
certain
machine
and
another
factory,
doesn't
what
about
the
emissions
needed
to
create
that
machine?
It's
not
part
of
the
goods
and
services
process
flow,
it's
infrastructure,
but
some
infrastructure
costs
a
lot
of
money
and
creates
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
you
know.
Carbon
emissions
and
some
infrastructure
doesn't.
A
Well,
this
is
actually
part
of
the
capital
goods.
What
you're
saying,
however,
based
on
on
our
experience,
what
we
have
talked
also
in
this
project,
it's
actually
not
that
much,
because
you
can
typically
use
the
infrastructure
for
many
many
many
products,
so
the
even
even
if
the
emissions
might
be
high.
On
the
first
glance,
you
can
certainly
appreciate
this
over
a
long
time
and
over
many
many
products
from
from
a
theoretical
point
of
view.
A
A
And,
and
just
just
we
are
starting
with
those
two
categories,
because
we
we
believe
those
are
the
most
important
categories.
But
that
does
not
mean
that
we
will
stop
with
those
categories.
We
will.
We
will
certainly
add
the
other
categories
over
time
as
well,
but
but
we
just
want
to
get
systems
started
and
start
with
low
hanging
fruits
to
be
able
to
to
help
companies
to
achieve
results
fast,
and-
and
this
is
why
we're
focusing
on
the
first
step
on
those.
H
H
H
So
I'm
kind
of
curious
how
we
might
collaborate
and
support
some
of
the
work
that
you're
doing
as
you
move
forward
and
kind
of
find
some
of
the
projects
that
make
sense
that
we
could
kind
of
devote
some
some
interest
to
and
some
in
some
just
work
on.
So
I'm
curious
to
see
how
we
might
might
work
with
you.
A
Yeah,
I
think
this
is
a.
This
is
a
very
good
point,
and
this
is
certainly
also
part
of
our
interest
to
see
how
we
how
we
can
really
find
common
common
benefits.
With
with
your
working
group.
I
think
there
are
two
ways
I
I
think
the
distribution
part
that
will
be
certainly
open
source
technology.
It
has
to
be
open
source
technology,
and
this
is
where
we
are
just
at
the
beginning.
A
D
B
Thanks
robin
and
thanks
folks
from
circular
tree
there,
this
is
good.
So
my
question
is:
that
was
one
chart.
I
think
when
you're
talking
value
proposition,
you
talked
about
auditors,
and
so,
if
you
could
explain
what
auditors
mean,
is
this
some
third-party
verification
framework
out
there
or
is
this
something
that
you
want
to
set
up
or
is
it
some
sort
of
self-validation
that
has
some
ai
behind
it
to
you
know
make
sure
things
aren't
getting
fraudulent?
C
A
We
see
that
what
we
have
explained
to
you.
What
is
really
off
chain
is
a
calculation
of
the
product
carbon
footprint.
So
how
do
you
go
from
scope,
one
and
two
emissions
of
a
whole
company
into
the
product,
carbon
footprint
of
certain
products-
and
here
we
have
to.
We
have
to
ensure
that
companies
are
not
cheating
and
all
big
companies
for
scope.
A
A
B
A
A
And
then,
if
the
auditor
confirms
the
results,
they
would
get
a
positive
rating
and
if
they
say
it
has
been
wrong,
they
would
get
a
negative
example,
one
of
them
and
could
also
say
if
it
was
wrong.
They
have
to
to
do
for
three
years
yearly
audits
to
ensure
that
they're
becoming
honest,
you
know
we
we
need
to
reward.
B
B
B
A
Think
I
think,
for
the
calculation
of
the
product,
carbon
footprint
iot
is
certainly
very
important.
For
example,
if
you
have,
if
you
can
have
the
the
real
time
energy
consumption
of
certain
equipment,
that
certainly
helps
to
calculate
the
specific
product
carbon
footprint
and
in
that
sense
I
think
iot
will
help
companies
to
get
to
more
accurate
results
quickly,
and
it
will
also
reduce
the
manual
labor
significantly
if
they
have
automated
values
and
and
do
not
have
to
read
them
from
any
whatever.
A
I
Yes,
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
for
presenting
circular
tree
and
it
was
a
very
interesting
presentation.
My
question
is
more
with
regards
to
what
so
you
establish,
basically
the
the
baseline
for
accounting
for
supply
chain,
let's
say
co2
emissions
and
you
provide
the
first
step
in
saying.
Okay,
this
is
how
much
co2
you
have
spent
for
a
certain
product
or
a
certain,
let's
say
yeah
product
or
life
cycle,
and
my
question
is
more
with
regards
what
what
you
can
do
afterwards
in
terms
of
tokenizing
this.
I
Do
you
also
talk
about
perhaps
the
value
of
co2
in
terms
of
how
to
perhaps
tokenize
the
value
of
the
co2
which
is
corresponding
to
a
certain
product,
and
then
what
that
could
mean
for
the
product
if
it
becomes
more
green,
does
it
have
a
higher
value,
and
how
does
it
even
go
also
with
esg
reporting
in
general,
which
you
also
mentioned
that
one,
if
you
can
elaborate
these
two
or
three
questions?
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
for
your
question
very,
very
good
question,
very
good
question.
To
be,
to
be
honest,
we
have
not
discussed
this
in
in
that's
just
because
we
have
so
many
other
problems.
We
we
need
to
solve
first,
but
one
of
the
ideas
I'm
having
is
that
you
could
use
you
could
sort
of
run
a
tokenized
auction.
A
I
A
A
What
was
the
water
consumption
so
from
from
a
long-term
strategy?
We
could
move
from
the
carbon
footprint
to
a
product
environmental
footprint,
where
we
take
a
basket
of
different
kpis,
but
but
we
have
purposely
decided
on
on
really
going
small
and
and
and
trying
to
establish
a
wide
customer
base.
First
before
we
will
expand
into
into
other
kpis.
I
D
G
Yeah
you've
been
so
actually
the
question
which
I
have
actually
advised
join
us,
and
actually
I
had
two
questions,
one
about
like
supply
chain
companies
and
the
auditor
is
part
of
the
this
platform
right
and
another
is
a
tokenization.
I
think
tokenization
very
important
part
to
kind
of
really
really
give
some
kind
of
benefit
to
the
consumer
and
even
kind
of
really
some
kind
of
revenue
and
business
model
out
of
the
product.
I
think
that
is
already
covered.
G
A
What
what
is
clear-
maybe
maybe
I
I
should
I
should
I-
should
really
mention
this
we
have
done.
We
have
done
a
pilot
project.
What
what
I've
I've
presented
to
you
in
with
in
the
world
business
council.
We
have
done
another
pilot
project
from
the
fast-moving
consumer,
goods
industry
and
now
we're
we're
really
that
we
we
know
that
the
system
in
principle
works.
Now
we
are
working
on
architecture
to
to
make
this
to
achieve
a
communication
which
is
platform
independent,
so
other
solution
providers
can
exchange
data.
G
H
Yes,
thank
you.
I
was
just
wondering
they
are
obviously
in
this.
Well,
you
mentioned
that
you
have
done
the
two
pilot
projects
so
far,
but
obviously,
when
you
take
this
thing
to
scale
and
you
take
it,
for
example,
if
porsche
were
to
calculate
not
only
the
carbon
for
the
bumpers,
but
for
the
entire
vehicle,
there
will
obviously
be
some
factors
or
processes
or
products
in
the
end
product
for
which
you
cannot
measure
the
carbon
footprint
empirically.
H
A
I
think
I
I
I
think
thank
you
for
the
question
very
important
question.
We
we
didn't
cover
that
in
your
presentation,
so
what
we,
what
we
are
foreseeing
is.
It
certainly
takes
some
time
to
get
the
data
complete
from
from
a
supply
chain.
Just
if
you
look
at
a
car
which
consists
out
of
whatever
30
000
different
parts-
and
there
will
be
some
suppliers
will
be
very
quick-
some
others
will
take
longer
and
in
order
to
still
achieve
a
product
carbon
footprint,
we
have
decided
that
we
will
also
allow
secondary
data
from
databases.
A
For
example,
gabi
echo,
invent,
etc,
plastic
europe,
for
example,
but
this
data
has
to
be
specifically
marked.
So
we
say
everything
which
is
truly
measured
is
primary
data
and
everything
else
is
secondary
data
and
in
the
beginning
you
will
also
have
the
kpi
of
increasing
the
amount,
the
percentage
of
primary
data,
but
but
we
don't
want
to
wait
until
every
supplier
has
provided
information,
because
that
would
take
far
too
long.
H
That
answer
your
question:
yes,
yes,
it
does.
I
just
have
one
more
question,
which
is
somewhat
related
to
it.
Do
you
okay?
So
you
you
mentioned,
for
example,
you
in
the
pilot
you
started
with
ba
basf
and
then
it
was
madison,
and
that
was
port.
Now
say
there
was
another
company
similar
to
ba
sf
from
one
of
one
of
their
competitors.
H
Do
you
prescribe
or
prefer
that
the
the
participants
in
your
network
use
specific
calculation
methods
or
techniques
or,
if
not,
is
there
a
way
that
you
can
communicate
to
the
users
of
your
blockchain
system?
What
the
quality
of
each
carbon
footprint
calculation
is
in
terms
of
exactly
how
specific
they
were
when
they
were
calculating
those
those
carbon
footprints
that
they
reported.
A
Yeah
very,
very,
very
good
question.
It's
the
first
one
we
want
to,
and-
and
this
is
one
of
the
working
groups
of
the
world
business
council
project-
we
want
to
develop
clear
guidelines
so
that
the
calculation
methodology
is
the
same
between
let's
say,
basf
and
one
of
their
competitors
and
and
there
we
are
working
with
so-called
product
category
rules
which
clearly
define
how
you
need
to
to
accumulate
for
the
carbon
footprint
in
order
to
make
it
comparable.
A
We
we
believe
it
would
not
work.
If
you
say:
okay,
this
calculation
methodology
is
better
or
worse.
How
do
you?
How
do
you
want
to
judge
this?
I
mean
it's
just
a
different
distribution
of
carbon
footprint,
so
we
clearly
will
give
more
precise
guidelines
on
how
to
measure
in
order
to
make
it
comparable.
D
D
So
maybe
just
going
down
the
line
of
the
questioning
around
getting
this
supplier
data.
Are
you
looking
to
make
use
of
these
hybrid
smart
contracts
in
order
to
supply
live
information
about
whether
those
suppliers
are
actually
active,
or
is
that
a
maybe
a
separate
system
that
could
be
built
on
top
of.
D
D
E
D
E
H
D
B
B
You
know,
because,
once
you
start
seeing
enough
data,
you
might
be
able
to
then
give
an
accurate
estimate
as
to
what
that
particular
part
of
the
supply
chain
might
be
contributing
and
the
burden
would
then
fall
on
them
to
rebut
with
any
other
evidence,
might
be
a
possibility,
as
you'll
be
ultimately
gaining
that
insight
from
the
from
the
data
you'll
be
receiving
through
the
system.
So
just
wanted
to
kind
of
touch
on
that
and
question
what
you're
thinking
as
a
sort
of
a
holistic
data
strategy.
Thank
you
over.
A
A
This
is
something
this
is
my
personal
thought:
we're
not
there
yet
in
the
world
business
council
project,
because
in
in
that
project,
apart
from
us,
the
other
companies
are
also
multinationals
with
with
billion
dollar
revenues
and
and
they
they
have
little
understanding
about
how
small
companies
work
and-
and
I
don't
think,
they've
given
for
every
supplier
to
to
hire
an
auditor
and
there.
This
is
something
I
I
will
bring
in
into
the
working
group
saying
there.
B
No,
no
thank
you.
That
was
quite
clear.
It
was
more
just
thinking
around
how
you
will
be
getting
so
much
data
from
those
companies.
So
after
you
would
you
know
you
would
receiving
that
data.
You
could
then
start
seeing
trends
as
to
what
good
estimates
would
be.
It
also
might
support
your
at
least
reasonableness
threshold
when
they're,
when
they're
making
bids
with
data,
especially
if
they're
not
going
to
be
audited
just
sort
of
having
a
sort
of
data.
D
A
In
theory,
we
could,
but
in
in
practical
companies,
are
very,
very
restrictive
and
sensitive
with
their
data,
so
on
our
experience
to
widely
share
their
data,
and-
and
this
is
what
one
of
the
the
promises
we
are
making
to-
the
companies
is
that
they
maintain
ownership
of
their
data.
So
even
technically,
theoretically,
we
could
do
it.
We
will.
E
This
might
also
address
the
question
by
alex,
so
something
like
live
production
rates
would
certainly
not
be
shared
by
the
companies
I
mean
for
for
one,
because
they
want
to
maintain
the
competitive
advantage,
but
this
could
even
be
for
anti-trust
reasons,
because
you
cannot
let
your
competitors
know
how
much
you
produce.
That's
actually.
D
G
G
So
I
have
two
questions,
so
the
first
question
is
regarding:
can
these
auditor
also
be
audited,
so
is
there
a
way
or
how
we
are
planning
this
or
the
second
question
is:
can
we
use
these
d
id
variable
credentials
instead
of
having
these
audits
in
form
of
hash
and
we
are
keeping
the
signature,
so
this
indie
is
already
doing
this,
so
we
have
very
few
credentials,
so
these
auditors
can
have
valuable
credentials
and
can
directly
issue
those
to
the
companies
yeah.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
the
first.
The
first
question
is
no.
We
have
not.
We,
we
don't
have
a
mechanism
yet
to
audit
the
auditors.
Maybe
maybe
this
might
be
an
idea
for
the
future,
but
at
this
point
in
time
I
don't
think
in
this
area.
This
is
common.
I
mean
this
is
just
like.
You
have
kpmg
or
price
waterhouse
or
whatever
there's
a
last
instance,
and
I
think
it's
the
same-
a
similar
system
with
auditors
for
carbon
footprint
information.
A
So
so
I
don't
think
it's
foreseen
as
as
a
solution
to
have
those
I
mean
it's
certainly
interested
and
there
I'm
not
really
knowledgeable
on
what
it
takes
to
become
an
auditor.
This
is
something
I
I
might
might
need
to
look
into
with
with
one
of
our
lca
experts,
but
but
I'm
maybe
a
little
bit
naive,
but
but
I
think
generally,
those
auditors
are
accepted
under
certain
regulation.
A
As
far
as
I
know
in
in
order
to
become
an
auditor,
I
know
it,
for
example
in
in
germany,
if
you
are
so-called
zucchaft,
you
have
to
to
take
certain
tests
and
and
commit
to
work
by
certain
standards.
So
but
I'm
I'm
I'm
to
be
honest,
not
an
expert
on
on
the
procedures,
how
it
works
with
carbon
footprint.
The
other
part.
I
have
not
really
understood
what
what
you
mean
by
the
hashes
of
of
the
signatures.
E
G
Yes,
because
in
this
way
we
can
define
the
schema
of
various
credentials.
Let's
say
there
are
three
auditors,
so
we
discussed
earlier
as
well
like
they
are
going
with
different
mechanisms
right,
so
we
need
not
to
limit
them
to
our
standard
mechanism.
They
can
have
any
mechanism
by
following
some
schema.
They
can
define
their
own
rules,
they
can
issue
their
credentials.
So
this
is
how
I
am
thinking
about.
Is
it
feasible
in
this
use
case
or
not.
E
D
Okay,
so
we
have
passed
the
error
thanks
everyone
for
attending
the
meeting
and
this
great
discussion
special
thanks
to
gunther
cartoon
in
ears.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
presentation
and
this
kind
of
bulletproof
q,
a
like
100's
of
questions,
thanks
a
lot
and
hope
to
talk
soon
and
see
you
in
one
of
our
future
meetings
calls
or
on
the
mailing
list.