►
Description
The April Mortgage Industry Subgroup Update had an enriching conversation on #tokenization and use cases with Peter Gaffney, Head of Research at Security Token Advisors, where he primarily advises and facilitates security token offerings, tokenization, and NFT implementation on behalf of clients in diverse (and very creative) industries.
Presented by mortgage industry subgroup co-chair Marvin Bantugan, and James Hendrick providing an update on the state of blockchain in the mortgage industry.
Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome and presentation
02:38 Community information
03:25 Status of Blockchain in the mortgage in the mortgage industry
10:42 Tokenization use cases with Peter Gaffney
53:40 Thoughts from the 2023 MBA Technology Conference
Join the FMSIG Mortgage Subgroup Wiki: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CMSIG/FMSIG+Mortgage+Industry+Subgroup
Subscribe to the mailing list to receive the latest updates: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/financial-markets-sig
Follow the Hyperledger Financial Markets Special Interest Group LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/hyperledger-financial-markets-sig/
----
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
A
Thank
you
to
everyone
for
attending
our
hyperledger
meeting.
This
is
the
April
2023
hyperledger
financial
markets.
Mortgage
subgroup
meeting
before
we
get
started,
I'd
like
to
express
our
appreciation
to
the
financial
markets,
special
Industry
Group,
for
making
this
meeting
possible
and
the
hyper
Ledger
foundation
for
their
ongoing
support.
Our
speaker
today
is
Peter
Gaffney,
who
will
discuss
tokenization
use
cases
in
financial
services,
so
why
don't
we
just
go
to
the
next
slide?
As
always,
please
note
that
this
meeting
is
being
recorded
and
is
Under
the
Umbrella
of
the
hyperledger
foundation.
A
So
we
ask
that
everyone
abide
by
the
antitrust
policy
and
the
code
of
conduct
the
Anti-Trust
policy
states
that
we
avoid
discussions
of
companies,
specific
pricing
products
and
projects.
We
don't
make
negative
comments
about
other
companies
or
prod
products,
and
the
code
of
conduct
means
that
we
trust
treat
each
other
with
respect,
never
discriminate
and
communicate
constructively.
A
We
fully
support
hyperledger's
policy
of
openness,
equity
and
inclusion
and
for
new
participants.
If
you'd
like,
please
introduce
yourself
in
the
chat
and
let
us
know
if
there's
any
specific
door,
air
specific
areas
of
Interest
you'd
like
to
talk
about
or
any
issues
you'd
like
to
discuss
here-
is
our
agenda.
For
today,
we've
already
gone
through
the
introduction
code
of
conduct
and
so
on.
A
James
Hendrick
will
provide
an
update
on
developments
in
the
mortgage
industry
and
then
Peter
will
take
us
further
down
the
road
down
the
topic
of
tokenization,
where
we
left
off
from
last
month.
If
we
have
time,
we
do
have
a
brief
video
about
the
2023
mortgage
technology
conference
that
took
place
last
week
and
we'd
love
to
share
that
with
you
guys.
A
Okay,
we
always
cover
this
slide
in
each
of
our
meetings,
and
this
is
to
reinforce
that
we're
all
on
the
same
blockchain
Journey,
but
we
may
be
at
different
paths
along
that
Journey.
This
group
is
meant
to
help
everyone
on
their
blockchain
path
and
to
demonstrate
the
feasibility
of
blockchain
Technology
through
mortgage
industry,
use
cases
a
defined
potential
implementation
pass
for
the
mortgage
industry
and
let
different
mortgage
companies
know
what
it
takes
to
implement
blockchain
and
walk
through
any
difficulties
that
maybe
experiencing.
A
Okay,
the
the
next
three
slides
are,
are
slides
that
I'm,
just
briefly
going
to
mention
I'm
not
going
to
spend
a
whole
lot
of
time
on
them.
This
slide
shows
the
different
links
to
different
resources:
the
Linux
Foundation,
the
second
from
the
bottom
is
the
mortgage
subgroup,
Wiki
and
just
different
resources
that
you
can
use
from
the
hyperledger
foundation.
A
In
order
to
use
those
resources,
you
will
need
an
lfid.
This
slide
covers
that
there's
a
video
as
well
and
then
there's
this
free
blockchain
training
from
the
hyperledger
group
I've
taken
this
training.
This
is
how
I
kind
of
got
started
within
hyperledger.
It's
fantastic,
I,
highly
recommend
it
again,
it's
free,
so
that
is
the
end
of
our
PSA
and
I'm,
going
to
hand
it
off
to
James.
Who
will
talk
about
the
state
of
blockchain.
B
B
So
you
know,
as
we're
all
aware,
the
2008
mortgage
crisis
was
led
by
the
poor
quality
of
mortgage-backed
Securities
in
the
preceding
years,
AAA
rated
Securities
were
packaged
with
lower
quality
ones,
and
these
bundles
were
passed
off
as
top-rated
securities
according
to
Ralph
kubli,
a
board
member
of
the
Casper
Association.
This
fundamental
problem
still
exists,
but
can
be
fixed
through
blockchain
technology.
B
Tokenization
of
mortgages
could
allow
them
to
become
observable,
verifiable
and
enforceable
on
a
public
blockchain,
making
the
mortgage
industry
much
more
transparent,
Financial
agreements
right
now
are
written
on
just
reams
of
paper
and
then
they're
given
to
analysts
and
programmers
who
interpret
these
written
documents
as
machine
readable
code.
You
have
written
contracts
that
get
translated
into
computer
code
and
after
about
40
years,
when
these
core
banking
systems
are
still
running,
no
one's
around
that
really
remembers
exactly
what
was
programmed
and
how
they
programmed
it.
B
So
one
way
to
address
this
would
be
tokenizing
mortgages
and
creating
a
PDF
of
a
term
sheet
and
hash
it
out
into
a
token
contract.
This
actually
results
in
more
of
a
dumb
token
that
isn't
any
better
than
what
we
really
have
in
traditional
Finance.
In
order
for
tokenization
to
succeed,
Ralph
States,
the
tokens
have
to
be
smart,
meaning
the
financial
agreement
has
to
be
machine,
readable
and
various
parties
involved
must
agree
to
the
code
itself.
B
Defy
apps
already
accept
machine,
readable
contracts,
but
have
limitations
in
current
forms
and
the
digital
term
sheets
that
would
be
required
would
still
need
to
be
developed.
The
article
also,
you
know,
talks
about
alternative
options.
One
of
the
ones
they
talk
about
is
creating
a
double
tokenization
with
mortgage
tokens
wrapped
inside
a
larger
token,
to
create
a
tokenized
mortgage-backed
security.
But
do
take
a
look
at
the
article.
It's
got
some
really
good
information
in
it.
Actually,
Marvin
yeah.
Thank
you,
sir.
B
It's
got
some
really
good
information
and-
and
you
know
a
different
take
as
to
how
this
could
be
delivered.
The
next
item
that
we
have
this
is
actually
a
YouTube
video,
we're
always
trying
to
give
you
guys
articles
podcast
videos
in
order
to
obtain
information.
This
honestly
is
a
fantastic
video.
It
comes
from
the
hyperled
global
forum
that
occurred
in
September
of
last
year.
B
Mohan
venkataram,
the
CTO
of
chain
yard,
does
a
fantastic
overview
of
real
estate.
Property
management,
tokenization,
so
chain
yard
is
a
seven-year-old
blockchain
company
and
the
presentation
covers
a
real
world
implementation.
They
conducted
with
a
real
estate
property
company
in
Kansas.
Mohan
covers
the
benefits
of
blockchain
in
the
real
estate
industry
and
walks,
through
a
very
detailed
use
case
scenario,
involving
an
in-depth,
in-depth
discussion
of
the
tokenization
process
of
real
estate
property.
B
In
his
presentation
he
breaks
down
proof
of
feasibility,
the
analysis
they
went
through
the
review
of
contracts,
special
considerations
and
risks
that
had
to
be
considered,
and
then
he
does
a
very
deep
dive
into
the
actual
architecture
of
how
they
constructed
it.
Much
more
than
I
can
actually
talk
to
in
this
short
time
frame,
but
take
a
look
look
at
it.
It's
really
a
fantastic
video,
especially
if
you're
looking
to
see
how
tokenization
can
be
architected.
B
The
video
is
roughly
about
45
minutes
long
and
it's
accessible
also
from
the
hyper
hyper
Ledger
YouTube
channel
or
you
can
go
to
our
Wiki
site
and
from
our
Wiki
site.
We've
got
a
link
directly
to
it.
There
hyperledger
also
posts
up
our
videos
and
other
videos
that
are
recorded
from
their
presentations
on
their
YouTube
channel
and
then,
lastly,
from
the
block,
let's
take
a
look
at
what
cities
I've
been
talking
about.
B
So
despite
Innovation
taking
time,
the
space
is
approaching
an
inflection
point
and
believes
the
potential
of
blockchain
could
soon
be
realized.
Mainstream
adoption
requires
enablers,
including
decentralized
digital
identities,
zero
knowledge,
proofs,
oracles
and
secure
Bridges.
Legal
Plumbing
is
also
going
to
be
critical,
as
well
as
regulatory
considerations
to
allow
adoption
and
scalability
so
City
isn't
alone.
In
these
projections,
blackrock's
Larry
Fink
wrote
about
the
operational
potential
of
the
underlying
Technologies
and
digital
assets
in
the
annual
letter
to
his
shareholders
last
month
as
well.
So
take
a
look
at
these
articles.
B
Marvin,
let's
go
ahead
and
move
on
to
the
next
slide.
All
of
these
articles,
as
you
can
see,
are
available
on
our
Wiki
sites.
You'll
see
them
on
the
right
hand,
side
past
articles
you
can
access
by
scrolling
down
on
the
right
or
over,
on
the
left
hand
side.
We
have
our
previous
mortgage
blockchain
articles
available
there,
along
with
links
to
all
of
the
previous
presentations,
so
we'll
drop
a
link
into
the
chat
here.
Thank
you,
Alma.
B
If
you
have,
the
opportunity
do
go
in
and
access
if
you'd,
like
updates
for
this
meeting,
when
we're
adding
new
content
to
the
site,
follow
the
instructions
that
Marvin
walked
through
at
the
beginning
of
the
code
or
the
call,
and
we
also
do
have
a
tremendous
amount
of
more
research
that
we've
been
doing
internally
with
our
zeventus
research
group.
So
if
you're
looking
for
additional
information
case
studies,
what
are
other
organizations
doing
out
there
feel
free
to
reach
out
we'd,
be
happy
to
share
that
information
with
you?
B
A
Awesome
James,
thank
you
so
with
that
oops
sorry
pressing
too
many
buttons
I'd
like
to
introduce
you
to
Peter
Gaffney
he's
the
head
of
research
at
security,
token
advisors,
Peter
started
his
career
as
a
five-year-old
video
game,
Tycoon
and
then
progressed
to
selling
gum
to
his
classmates.
Then
this
notable
start
Peter
graduated
to
CDs
and
iPhone
apps
and
in
high
school
then
Peter
started
crypto
core
Capital
Investments,
a
small
scale
investment
fund.
A
C
Appreciate
that
intro
Marvin
thanks
for
that
compliment,
James
always
try
to
you,
know
Elevate
to
the
next
level.
I
think
we
kind
of
found
that
with
tokenization
here,
everyone
great
it's
great
to
meet
you
great
to
be
on
here.
As
Marvin
said,
Peter
Gaffney
I
lead
a
lot
of
the
research
and
initiatives
with
security,
token
advisors,
pretty
much
an
advisory
firm,
a
research,
firm
and
kind
of
anything
in
between
when
it
comes
to
asset
tokenization.
C
The
firm's
been
around
for
five
years
now,
since
probably
late
2017.,
and
you
know
we're
a
number
of
clients,
I
think
over
40
clients
all
in
we
actually
have
Jason
Barraza
one
of
the
STA
guys
in
the
zoom
right
now,
as
well,
always
good
to
see
that,
but
essentially
yeah
we're
an
advisory
firm.
Do
a
lot
of
research
Consulting
for
real
estate,
clients,
private
Equity
firms,
General
asset
managers.
We
have
had
mortgage-backed
Securities
platforms,
engaged
us
before
and
kind
of
do.
A
lot
of
research
and
ad
hoc
work
within
that.
C
So
I
would
love
to
to
kind
of
break
down
a
bunch
of
different
use
cases
that
I
think
would
be
just
helpful
to
kind
of
paint.
The
context
Marvin
I
actually
do
have
a
presentation
if
I'm
able
to
share
my
screen,
I
also
just
shared
it
with
your
email.
If
you
want
to
pull
it
up,
apologies
you
should
have
done
that
before
this,
but
okay,
I'm
gonna
paint
some
context.
In
the
meantime,
I.
C
That's
coming
up
for
everybody,
yep
perfect
perfect,
so
here
it
is
we're
going
to
look
at
some
asset
tokenization
across
the
capital
markets
in
general,
so
I
know
I
want
to
keep
this
more
focused
on
mortgages
on
mortgage-backed
Securities
asset
backspace
in
general,
but
yeah
as
we
know,
tokenization
could
be
applied
to
kind
of
anything.
So
I
think
it's
important
to
kind
of
show
the
context
as
a
whole.
So
this
is
one
of
my
favorite
slides
just
the
whole
collage
of
headlines,
and
you
know
we
could
we
could.
C
We
could
scrap
this
entire
page
and
throw
20
other
headlines
on
there's
enough
now
where
we
could
really
do
that
and
have
multiple
cycles
of
things.
But
you
know
we
see
a
lot
of
more
retail
driven
plays
I,
don't
know
if
you
can
see
my
cursor,
but
over
here
with
INX
and
even
with
Exodus
raising
capital
from
their
retail
crowd,
option
move
over
to
KKR
one
of
the
biggest
private
Equity
firms
in
the
world,
Hamilton
Lane
some
similar
deal.
C
So
we're
excited
to
kind
of
show
some
new
secondary
rollouts
in
the
near
future
keep
an
eye
out
on
that,
but
without
further
Ado
on
the
context,
we're
looking
at
a
couple
use
cases
so
the
way
I
see
this
and
the
way
I
kind
of
the
team
views
a
lot
of
this
stuff.
Just
based
on
you
know,
client
engagements
based
on
what's
actually
happening
behind
closed
doors
and
behind
the
scenes,
I
think
there's
three
different
buckets
of
tokenization.
You
really
want
to
think
about.
You
know
it's
not
like
a
one-size-fits-all
type
ordeal.
C
It's
more,
so
you
have
product
initiatives,
think
of
investment
funds,
think
of
pre-ipo
shares.
Think
of
even
you
know
just
asset-backed
Securities
that
come
out
on
the
blockchain
that
investors
could
actually
buy
into.
So
that's
the
product
side.
We
have
operational
tools
which
I
think
of
things
like
collateral
management.
C
Repo
swaps
is
a
recurring
theme
in
this
presentation
as
you'll
see,
and
then
even
internal
transfers
and
just
working
with,
like
blockchain,
enabled
fund
administrators
on
the
back
end
and
then,
lastly,
which
we
won't
really
cover
it's
more
of
a
built-off
thing,
but
infrastructure
Solutions,
it's
kind
of
like
what
Wisdom,
Tree
and
Franklin
Templeton
have
been
doing
rolling
out,
actual
retail
driven
applications
and
platforms
to
then
bring
existing
products
on
chain
and
then
dish
it
out
to
retail
investors
to
better
cater
to
them.
So
that's
super
cool
won't
really
be
covering
that
much.
C
But
it's
good
context
over
here,
so
first
off
on
the
product
side
right.
This
is
the
headlines
that
people
see
this
is
the
KKR,
the
Hamilton
Lane
Apollo.
This
is
what
people
see
in
the
headlines
a
lot,
so
this
could
be
a
real
estate.
Portfolios.
Token
put
them
in
an
SPV
token,
as
individual
interest
issue,
that
through
a
broker
dealer
or
through
a
syndicated
Network,
and
actually
find
investors
and
buyers.
C
Lately,
commercial
debt,
private
debt
offers
have
taken
Taken,
good
stronghold,
the
past
quarter
really
starting
out
in
Q4
of
last
year
and
then
especially
q1
of
this
year.
Private
credit,
real
estate
asset
back
credit
is
also
kind
of
big
coming
up.
So
we're
going
to
look
at,
for
example,
specifically
I
think
I
threw
a
fifth
one
in
there
actually,
but
we'll
get
to
that
in
a
second
first
off
we
have
KKR,
which
made
all
the
headlines
back.
C
You
know
a
few
months
ago,
actually
more
like
six
months
ago
now,
when
they
issued
a
tokenized
feeder
fund
product,
essentially
their
Flagship
Healthcare
Fund
in
traditional
form,
minimum
buy-in
I
believe
is
five
million
dollars.
Obviously,
that's
catering
towards
certain
groups-
they're
institutional
Partners
higher
you
know
just
ultra
high
net
worth
individuals,
asset
management
groups
rias
even
and
the
like.
So
what
they
actually
did
was
take
a
slice
of
that
phone.
C
A
little
slice
work
with
secure
ties,
who's,
a
registered
broker,
dealer
transfer
agent,
issuance
platform
and
plop
that
up
on
the
marketplace
and,
as
we
know,
tokenization
brings
those
efficiencies.
Investor
management
kind
of
automated
cat
table
future
distributions
Capital
calls,
you
know,
could
be
done
a
lot
more
seamlessly
than
having
to
to
up
upgrade
your
back
office.
Every
time
you
want
to
onboard
you
know
a
hundred
new
investors,
let's
say
so
they
did
that
they
threw
it
up
there.
C
Minimum
buy-in
was
able
to
come
down
to
100
Grand
still
a
lot
of
money,
but
obviously
it's
a
much
larger
cohort
of
accredited
investors
than
that
five
million
dollar
mark,
so
pretty
cool
and
that
kind
of
set
the
path
for
you
know
the
rest
of
the
quarter
to
follow
suit.
On
the
private
side,
in
fact,
Hamilton
Lane
made
potentially
even
bigger
headlines
shortly
after
that.
So
while
KKR
was
a
tokenized
feeder
fund,
Hamilton
Lane
is
actually
issuing
there.
C
We
go
Hamilton
Lane
is
actually
issuing
new
digital
digitally
native
share
classes
in
its
existing
Evergreen
phone,
so
the
private
asset
spawn
invest
as
the
name
in
private
assets.
Three
different
shared
classes
right
now
that
were
typically
closed,
qualified
purchasers,
the
digital
share
classes,
I
believe,
are
still
they
may
be
for
accredited
investors
or
qualified
purchasers.
C
C
It
could
do
the
same
work
with
monthly
redemptions,
pretty
hands
off
to
the
back
office
right
or
it
would
technically
have
the
ability
to
list
on
an
alternative
trading
system
and
actually
give
investors,
real-time
liquidity,
so
we're
not
sure
what
solution
they're
going
with
yet,
but
obviously
we'll
see
in
due
time.
Both
capabilities
are
technically
there.
It's
not
yet
active
the
SEC,
still
kind
of
jumping
through
a
couple:
Hoops
nah,
not
Hoops.
Just
still
ironing
out
some
details,
but
pretty
confident
it
will
come
through.
C
C
So
I'm
just
going
to
jump
ahead,
just
a
couple
we'll
come
back,
but
so
Providence
blockchain
was
actually
spun
up
by
a
figure
and
figure
founded
by
Mike
Cagney,
former
Sofi
founder.
So
also,
let's
say
in
the
private
lending
alternative
lending
space,
and
so
Providence
is
a
layer.
One
blockchain,
it's
I
believe
it's
a
public
permission,
blockchain
technically,
and
it's
really
designed
for
financial
services,
so
they
have
over
50
institutions
as
node
operators.
C
Right
now,
I
think
over
12
billion
dollars
worth
of
transactions
have
successfully
taken
place
on
figure
and
right
now
they
have
I
think
the
number
is
nine
point:
four
billion
dollars
of
assets
on
chain
and
a
lot
of
that
is
like
digital
mortgages,
what
we
call
e-notes,
helocs,
securitization,
bundles
and
just
some
other.
We
have
the
private
fund
side
now
and
some
other
kind
of
payment
services,
but
they
show
I
believe
Hamilton
Lane.
So
obviously
they
work
with
Securitas
on
the
other
deal
or
sorry,
they
have
a
couple
of
funds
announced
with
securitize.
C
That's
not
covered
here.
They've
worked
with
addx
over
in
Singapore
before
and
now
they're
working
I
think
Providence.
Just
has
kind
of
that
built
out
Financial
like
institutional
capability
and
vision,
so
they're
testing
it
out
here
with
the
digitally
native
fund,
but
essentially
Providence
is
built
solely
for
this
stuff.
C
So
they're
kind
of
Building
Solutions
out
like
that
in
terms
of
figures,
digital
fund
Services,
that's
like
they're,
built
out
we're
working
with
private
funds,
Mega
funds,
nepe
companies
that
come
in
and
want
to
do
this
or
on
the
private
credit
side,
but
they
also
have
like
Equity
Solutions
and,
of
course,
their
figure
lending
and
credit
which
is
kind
of
where
they
made
their
name
in
the
first
place.
Is
that
is
that
helpful
Marvin
for
context?
Oh.
A
C
C
C
Token
raised
that
18
million
dollars
a
year
later
after
the
lockup
period
associated
with
regulation
d,
it
actually
listed
on
t0's,
ATS
and
right
now
it's
one
of
seven
tokens
listed
on
t0,
probably
one
of
the
longest
standing
tokens
and
like
we
see
originally,
it
was
18
million
dollars
in
market
cap.
Technically
that
sliced
that
tranche
now
I
have
the
number
right
here.
What
was
it
it's
up
to
37
million
per
stm.com,
which
is
actually
where
we
track
allow
the
secondary
data?
C
And
it's
quite
successful?
It's
it's
amazing
to
see
you
know,
obviously
it
kind
of
followed
suit
with
the
greater
real
estate
market,
but
when
things
were
listed
on
secondaries,
obviously
at
the
end
of
the
day,
you're
kind
of
at
the
mercy
of
the
market.
So
it's
awesome
to
see
that
this
kind
of
followed
suit
and
you
know
elevator
returns.
They
announced
a
buy
back
program
at
one
point
to
in
to
stir
up
liquidity.
We've
seen
a
couple.
C
Companies
do
that
this
was
a
pretty
successful
example,
I
would
say,
but
you
know
just
one
of
the
original
security
tokens
wanted
to
include
it
in
here.
Thank
you
get
back
to
figure
actually,
so
they
do
have
a
mortgage
rate.
That's
focused
pretty
much
on
heloc's
on
mortgage-backed,
Securities
and
other
related
asset-backed
Securities.
This
is
managed
through
figure
investment
advisors,
so
they
have
the
platform
they
spun
off
the
blockchain.
They
have
three
different
service
verticals
and
then
they
also
have
an
investment
advisor
arm.
A
registered
investment
advisor
on
figure
investment
advisor.
C
C
It's
still
raising
capital,
I,
Think
It's,
just
tough,
originally
to
kind
of
pitch
Capital
raising
for
funds
when
it's
tokenized,
you
know
people
are
already
seeing
challenges
now
in
traditional
form,
but
I
think
the
headwinds
are
kind
of
starting
to
push
that
way,
which
is
all
positive
activity,
just
another
sample
to
kind
of
show
what
they're
doing
and,
of
course,
they're.
You
know
practicing
what
they
preach
with
their
own
digital
funds.
Solutions
DFS
I,
believe
that
is
into
you're
right.
C
So
back
to
this
real
quick
I
just
wanted
to
get
some
numbers
out.
So
in
the
original
provenance
white
paper
it
was
quoted
that
originating
loans
and
related
products
fully
on
chain
could
yield
anywhere
from
like
300
basis,
points
to
500
basis
points
and
savings.
I
think
the
numbers
are
probably
close
to
that.
Let's
say
two
to
three
percent
Mark.
Even
on
one
of
these
tests,
they
found
100
bips
in
savings
on
the
first
ever
securitization
fully
on
chain.
C
Here
you
know
it
obviously
quotes
30
billion
dollar
potential
Savings
in
the
annual
three
trillion
dollar
securitization
Market
capturing
all.
That
would
be
amazing,
but
even
it's
a
very
respectable
amount
of
savings.
You
know
the
clients
that
we
deal
with
the
size
and
the
plans,
even
something
like
30
biffs,
would
go
a
long
way
and
then
even
looking
at
publicly
traded
fund
rappers,
you
know
a
lot
of
ETFs.
Some
mutual
funds
are
competing
over.
C
You
know
five
basis,
point
difference
in
their
fees
for
customer
business,
so
I
think
this
is
really
where
Providence
could
shine
if
they
can
prove
out
these
savings.
That
will
go
a
huge,
huge
way
with
the
overarching
market,
any
any
questions
or
comments
or
thoughts
on
the
the
public
or
sorry
on
the
product
side.
C
C
Believe
it
is
yeah
so
notably
early
on,
and
this
was
in
March
2020
I
believe
it
was
Redwood
trust
they
worked
with
redwood
and
then
they
did
the
largest
securitization
in
like
a
decade.
I
think
it's
listed
here
on
the
left.
Actually,
308
million
dollars
with
like
salute
a
great
asset
management.
Wsfs
was
involved.
Jeffrey's
Investment
Bank
was
involved,
so
they
definitely
kind
of
came
out.
The
gate
quickly
figure
with
this,
but
yeah.
B
D
Stephen,
better
here,
Peter,
quick
question
for
you:
do
you
know
of
any
established
businesses
right
now
that
are
sort
of
approaching
the
origination
element
here,
pretty
much
establishing
pretty
much
that
mortgage
purchasers
Providence
their
Financial
Credit
profile
on
chain
right
now
that
allows
for
sort
of
later
securitization
or
or
being
able
to
speed
up
that
process
right
now.
Do
you
know
of.
C
We
want
to
manage
the
administration
process
of
mortgages,
mortgage-backed
Securities,
related
loans
and
products,
kind
of
fully
on
chain,
they've
recently
rolled
out
in
markets
with
the
on
an
Avalanche
subnet
and
that's
designed
to
be
the
end-to-end
marketplace.
You
could
originate,
you
could
service,
you
could
distribute
and
eventually
you
could
trade
and
just
gain
liquidity
all
in
one
place.
So
that's
it
just
rolled
out
two
months
ago:
I
don't
think
we've
seen
a
completed
project
on
markets.
Just
yet
admin
is
is
very,
is
quite
active,
but
markets
is
really
kind
of.
C
You
know
the
the
Golden
Goose
in
this
case
of
what
we
want
to
see.
So
that's
something.
That's
a
built
out
platform
active
in
pain,
it's
already
operational
I.
Would
also
add
that
to
James's
Point
earlier
about
a
dumb
token,
I
love
that,
because
it's
true
in
some
cases
you
don't
want
to
just
you
know,
throw
a
token
out
there
a
lot
of
times.
You
need
actionable
data
or
something
backing
it.
That's
going
to
stir
activity,
it
really
make
use
of
the
blockchain
in
this
case.
C
So
this
company
inveniam
Works
to
pretty
much
aggregate
a
lot
of
asset
level
data
which
in
this
case
could
be
loan
docs
could
be
investor
docs
could
be
tax
assessments.
If
evaluations
could
be
any
third-party
data
like
that
and
kind
of
stamp
it
on
change
So.
Eventually,
when
there
is
a
token
or
when
that
asset
gets
securitized
tokenized
issued
it
has
kind
of
callable
data
data
Trails
that
can
make
you
know
life
easier
for
anyone,
kind
of
managing,
looking
at
it
doing
appraisals,
any
audits,
any
accounting,
work
and
things
of
that
nature.
D
D
C
C
I
could
get
the
full
list
a
bit
later
on.
Jam
fintop
was
one
of
their
backers
and
was
pretty
active
at
this
and
I
know
that
they've
made
other
Investments
kind
of
in
space.
In
a
similar
vein,
this
is
super
interesting,
I
think
yeah,
it's
pretty
cool
and
we've
like
even
on
our
advisory
side.
We,
you
know:
we've
seen
a
client
who's,
looking
to
make
a
mortgage-backed
Securities
investment
portal
to
kind
of
eliminate
the
calling
of
different
desks
and
really
have
a
One-Stop
shop.
C
D
C
D
C
That's
a
good
question:
I'm,
not
sure
off
top
of
my
head,
I
would
say:
inveniam
comes
to
mind
just
because
I
wouldn't
say:
they're
a
data
provider
or
aggregator,
it's
more
so
service,
but
like
stm.com,
our
sister
company
tracks
a
lot
of
the
secondary
trading
data,
so
not
necessarily
aggregating
A
lot
of
that
credit
work,
but
anything
on
the
ats's
and
kind
of
secondaries
is
the
bread
and
butter
there.
But
I'll
try
to
find
some
details
if
I
think
of
things
well,.
D
C
Think
there's
enough
I
think
there's
enough
regulatory
clarity
now
to
get
things
done.
The
low
hanging
fruit
could
always
be
a
reg
D
issuance
and
I
know
that's
not
Apples
to
Apples
here,
but
there's
always
a
low-hanging
fruit
to
get
things
done.
I
think
when
we
hear
a
lot
of
the
crypto
companies
or
asset
managers
kind
of
not
denounce,
but
you
know
stay
away
and
say:
oh
we're
waiting
on
regulatory,
Clarity,
I
think
it's
kind
of
a
cop-out
answer,
there's
definitely
Concepts
that
are
proven
out
and
there's
definitely
playbooks.
C
That
could
be
followed
to
get
to
Market.
So
that's
kind
of
just
my
opinion
but
and,
like
I
said
I
think
things
are
kind
of
building
and
momentum's
building.
At
the
end
of
the
day,
a
lot
of
it
comes
down
to
the
base
layer
management
and,
if
you're
issuing
a
product
to
retail
that
will
always
kind
of
be
the
most
stringent,
but
anything
above
board
above
that
is
usually
much
more
doable
and
and
kind
of
even
quicker
to
Market.
So
I
think
there's
enough
kind
of
validation
right
now
to
do
so.
E
E
C
On
the
the
mortgage
side-
specifically-
yes,
yes,
so
to
that
I
would
say
it's
pretty
I
would
say
like
I
know,
insane
was
managing
just
a
lot
of
their
existing
Partnerships
and
and
let's
say,
asset
relationships
on
their
platform.
I
think
a
lot,
and
even
it's
kind
of
like
hinted
at
in
this
section-
is
more
so
like
operational
cases,
where
you're
kind
of
transferring
things
and
transferring
assets,
rather
than
issuing
things
publicly
for
investment.
C
I
would
also
say,
like
looking
at
Movement
Mortgage
I
know
province
has
a
couple
other
top
10
mortgage
providers,
they're
working
with
that
haven't
been
announced
yet,
which
is
really
securitizing
digital
mortgages
initially
on
chain
and
getting
their
internal
teams
comfortable
using.
It
is
kind
of
the
big
play
right
now.
Even
a
lot
of
the
investment
banks
are
doing
similarly
with
their
initiatives,
so
everyone's
kind
of
following
that
same
suit,
I'm,
trying
to
think
of
other
public
cases
that
that
are
known
right
now.
That
I
could
talk
about.
But
it's.
E
Kind
of
limited
well,
could
you
like
it
seems
to
me
that
figure
in
figure
with
the
Providence
training,
is
really
the
tip
of
the
spear
out
there.
But
can
you
comment
on
what
liquid
mortgage
is
doing
and
what
they
did
with
redwood
trust,
or
are
you
aware
of
that
or
do
you
have
any
any
insights
into
figure
I
mean
into
liquid.
C
E
So
there
was
a
I
think
it
was
a
hundred,
mostly
California.
What
do
we
call
Jumbo
loans?
It
was
100
jumbo
loans
that
they
had,
that
they
were
part
of
a
securitization
package
and
then
they
they
put
those
those
loans
on
on
a
blockchain
I
can't
remember
which
one
it
was
because
liquid
is
I,
think
liquid
is
agnostic
as
to
as
to
where
they
put
it,
but
that
was
in
order
to
accelerate
being
able
to
trade
between
those
hundred
mortgages
between
private
parties.
E
Right
I
mean
between
between
other
Originators
or
other
investors.
So
the
idea
was
to
cut
out
the
the
redoing
of
the
due
diligence
for
each
of
those
hundred
loans.
Again
so
I
was
just.
It
seems
to
me
that
figures
in
the
lead
and
they've
really
committed
and
done
the
most
investments
in
it.
But
I
was
wondering
if
you
had
any
insights
about
liquid,
but
thanks
yeah.
C
No
great,
thank
you
for
that
background.
Yeah
I
think
it's
funny.
This
is
actually
the
way
I
see
it
is
that
they
would
be
creating
kind
of
a
permissioned.
I
guess
permission
is
the
best
word.
I
just
got
permission
bulletin
board
of
sorts
and
that's
kind
of
a
recurring
theme.
I
would
say.
I
know:
Avalanche
has
built
out
like
a
they're
institutional,
on-chain,
Finance
pool
for
like
a
similar
thing,
with
a
lot
of
these
institutional,
buns
and
I.
Think
what
it
looks
like
with
liquid
mortgage.
C
C
Yeah
yeah
Consortium
yeah,
unable
to
swap
between
each
other.
That's
all
good,
that's
usually
all
good,
because
you're
not
going
to
the
public
and
everything's
kind
of
contained
I
think
that's
actually
to
the
previous
question.
That's
a
lot
more
feasible
and
kind
of
straight
to
Market
than
anything
else
would
be.
C
C
A
C
Yeah
I've
Done
big
deal
looks
like
313
million,
even
yep
Houston
nice
awesome
I'll
have
to
do
my
my
homework
on
that
specific
deal,
get
some
details
to
follow
up
cool,
so
that's
we'll
get
close
out
the
the
kind
of
the
the
public
product
side
on
that
front.
The
other
end
of
the
you
know,
let's
say
the
that's.
C
The
tip
of
the
iceberg
behind
the
scenes
is
what
a
lot
of
these
operational
tools
are
happening,
and
this
is
kind
of
what
I've
been
looking
at,
just
as
our
clients
demand
this
and
kind
of
move
to
this.
This
space
and
the
Commercial
Banking
Investment
Banking,
General,
Asset
Management
uses
so
like
I,
said
here
a
lot
of
things.
Looking
at
collateral
management,
repo
asset
swap
excuse
me
fund
Administration.
This
is
where
a
lot
of
high
volume
just
capitals
moving
Non-Stop,
and
this
is
a
great
case.
C
If
you
can
have
real-time
settlement
quicker
transactions-
let's
say
less
hands-off
transactions.
This
is
where
a
lot
of
the
cost
savings
will
actually
come
to
these
types
of
parties,
which
is
why
we
can't
ignore
it
and
there's
the
whole
thing
about
people.
Look
at
public
blockchains
versus
private
blockchains.
Some
are
very
opinionated
I'm,
not
super
opinionated,
because
I
think
there's
a
way,
there's
a
a
use
for
both
of
them.
In
this
whole
ordeal,
I
think
for
a
product
issuance
public
blockchains
are
a
great
way
to
go.
C
Give
me
Integrations
the
behind
the
scenes
is
probably
not
necessary
and
that's
where
I
think
a
lot
of
these
chains
are
about
to
look
at
kind
of
Sean
or
these
Services.
Rather
so
one
I'm,
not
sure
if
anyone
with
another
hqlax
pretty
much
stands
for
high
quality
liquid
assets
exchange
european-based
firm,
pretty
much
they're
they're
looking
to
be
an
Institutional
grade,
Enterprise
service
built
with
R3
quarter.
C
Ultimately,
this
is
there
to
kind
of
get
rid
of
any
delay
in
settlement,
any
miscommunication
or
kind
of
misguidance
between
fees
between
timing
and
things
like
that,
which
ultimately,
would
you
know,
reduce
error
and
ideally
make
everyone
happier
or
whoever's
on
The
Winning
Side
of
that.
But
this
is
very,
very
popular
in
Europe
has
a
lot
of
Partners
involved
right
now.
C
Onyx
is
one
of
the
more
impressive
divisions
in
any
banking
parties.
Right
now
to
date.
On
the
blockchain
side,
my
opinion,
the
repo
Network
I,
launched,
you
know
late
2020,
already
almost
at
500
billion
dollars
worth
of
transaction
volume.
This
is,
you
know,
invite
only
as
well.
They
have
you
know:
Goldman
The,
Usual
Suspects
as
members
in
The
Syndicate,
but
the
whole
goal
here
is
to
kind
of
test
out
tokenization
digitization
of
funds
for
repo
purposes.
I
I
saw
you
know
the
original
deal
with
Goldman.
C
They
were
usually
charging
each
other
interest
by
the
minute.
So
you'd
have
the
JPM
broker,
saying
hey.
This
transaction
took
two
and
a
half
hours,
the
Goldman
broker's,
saying
No.
This
was
four
hours
each
buying
for
their
their
better
deal
right
on
the
side
and
one
shared
Ledger,
the
blockchain
said
it
took
three
hours
and
five
minutes.
That's
it
the
end-all
be-all.
Everyone
knows
what
fees
are
paid.
Fees
are
paid
automatically
collateral,
swapped
up
upon
closure
and
boom.
C
They
created
JPM
coin
originally
as
a
settlement
token,
back
in
2018,
many
people,
myself
included,
did
not
realize
the
purpose
of
JPM
coin.
I,
remember
saying
to
myself
when
I
was
younger,
just
was
trying
to
be
a
different
Bitcoin
how's
this
work,
but
now
it
all
comes
out
in
the
wash
and
we
see
that
to
have
a
digital
Network,
a
closed
loop.
You
need
some
settlement
token,
so
Props
to
JPM
for
seeing
that
whole
Vision
through
and
now
it's
kind
of
really
really
coming.
If
you're
with
that
any
banking
things.
C
I
could
yeah
give
him
my
best
shot
I
in
terms
of
actually
focusing
on
this.
A
lot
of
my
focus
is
on
the
tokenization.
Specifically
so
I
mean
the
settlement.
Side
is
pretty
solved
with
JPM
coin
I,
remember,
Quorum
back
in
the
day,
less
familiar
with
what
actually
happened
at
the
end
there
to
be
completely
honest,
not
to
be
completely
Onyx,
but
yeah
I
mean
right
now,
JPM,
just
it's
basically
tokenized
deposit
I
think
they
put
out
a
whole
white
paper
about
deposit
tokens
versus
stable
coins
instead
of
having
pegged
assets.
C
These
are
actually
issued
and
minted
by
japm
itself,
backed
by
their
existing
deposits
and
their
products,
and
it's
totally
meant
to
be
an
internal
use
case.
Anything
coming
through
Onyx
is
going
to
settle
in
JPM
coin
you're,
not
going
to
find
JPM
coin
issued
with
other.
You
know
in
other
networks
or
other
permission
parties
unless
there's
really
see
a
reason
for
it
which,
right
now
it
doesn't
look
that
way.
So
maybe
corn
was
supposed
to
be
more
of
a
public-facing
and
Dave
feel
free
to
correct
me.
C
C
Definitely-
and
it's
a
it's-
you
know
just
speaking
from
conversation,
it's
a
recurring
theme
now
the
settlement
side,
because
people
are
realizing
I'm,
probably
not
gonna,
pin
my
whole
operation
on
usdc
or
on
a
different,
stable
coin.
After
just
the
general
digital
asset
markets,
the
past
12
months.
C
They
could
actually
generate
some
yield
or
some
returns
on
that
front
and
make
use
of
it
in
this
fully
digital
Network.
So
that
could
be
a
whole
different
subject
not
to
ramble
on
about
it,
but
it
could
be
like
you
know:
JPM
coin
super
internal
for
jpm's
usage,
whereas
these
other
products
may
be
trying
to
serve
that
public
facing
market
and
just
get
adopted
by
a
bunch
of
different
banks,
asset
managers,
wealth
groups
and
even
retail
users
at
the
end
of
the
day,
so
pretty
cool
Trend
to
keep
an
eye
on.
A
Peter,
those
are
two
great
examples
that
you
mentioned
and
Onyx
as
well.
I
I,
especially
like
the
settlement
example
that
you
provided,
but
is
there
any
hard
data
that
actually
shows
that
blockchain
does
lower
the
speed
to
settlement,
because
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
we
as
a
group
have
been
talking
about
and
I've
been
thinking
about,
is?
Is
there
a
Enterprise
grade
platform
for
trading
mortgage-backed,
Securities,
I,
I?
A
Think
that's
where
we're
all
kind
of
leaning
towards
and
what
the
Enterprise
grade
solutions
that
you
have
right
now
are
for
repo
swaps,
but
mortgage-backed
Securities
I,
and
maybe
there
is
nothing
out
there.
Maybe
it's
something
that
Providence
or
or
figure.
Maybe
that's
what
they're,
building
and
and
just
keeping
quiet
about,
but
I'd
be
interested
in
your
thoughts
on
that.
C
A
great
question
I
know
HQ
LAX.
Their
whole
thing
is
about
delivery
versus
payment
and
solving
that
and
a
lot
of
the
like
when
ABN
Amro
issued
their
digital
bond.
That
was
a
whole
thesis
right.
The
real-time
settlement
and
it's
easy
to
kind
of
talk
about
like
we
are
now
in
terms
of
the
mortgage-backed
security
space
I,
think
that's
what
intane's
goal
is
to
be.
C
C
That
would
be
another
good
indicator
of
this
type
of
action,
because
I
totally
agree
Marvin,
it's
easy
to
say
you
know
real-time
settlement
this
and
that
24
7
trading,
but
to
really
see
in
action,
is
a
different
story,
so
that
step
is
something
okay,
cool.
Thank
you.
No,
of
course,
it's
a
good
note
for
me
as
well
to
keep
my
eye
out
on
any
developments
in
that
friend
share
with
you
afterwards,.
B
C
X,
you
know
we're
seeing
efficiencies
on
the
capital
or
the
primary
side,
as
things
are
coming
through,
but
really
the
secondaries
are
are
to
be
proven
out,
so
definitely
very
curious
on
that.
We'll
do,
and
so
similarly,
as
kind
of
the
Third
Leg
of
the
operational
case,
we
were
looking
at
fund
distribution
and
management.
C
So
I
personally,
like
that,
just
for
the
narrative
and
eventually
you
know,
things
have
to
be
interoperable
to
an
extent
to
make
things
work
right
now.
So
I
think
it's
a
great
kind
of
case
study
again
not
super
relevant
for
this
group,
but
definitely
good
context
for
the
overarching
capital
markets
and
how
they're
kind
of
shifting
and
lastly,
I
don't
have
a
slide
for
this,
but
broadridge
kind
of
a
legacy
transfer
agent
and
administrator.
They
have
a
distributed,
Ledger
repo
Network.
That
apparently
is
already
clocking
one
trillion
dollars
worth
of
repo
volume.
C
A
month,
I
wanna
I
have
to
dig
in
it
just
kind
of
came
on
my
radar
recently
I
want
to
dig
in
and
see
kind
of
what
their
clientele
looks
like
and
their
actual
transactions
and
setup,
because
that's
just
you
know
a
ridiculous
number
to
quote,
and
it
would
be
awesome
to
see
that
come
through,
but
also
Marvin
and
James.
I'll
follow
up
with
some
some
data,
some
materials
after
this,
when
I
can
I
believe
that's
kind
of
the
gist
of
the
the
presentation
at
least
anyone.
C
You
know
like
I,
said
security,
token
advisors,
Advisory
Group.
We
work
with
one-off
clients,
as
we
can.
We
have
a
whole
research,
Consortium,
100
plus
members,
already
Early
Access
right
now
going
live
in
a
couple
weeks,
ranging
from
some
of
the
big
banks
that
we
talked
about
today:
a
lot
of
asset
managers,
service
providers,
layer,
one
layer,
two
blockchains
private
blockchains
and
then
even
third-party
kind
of
services
in
general
legal
groups
whatever.
So,
if
anyone's
curious,
you
know,
links
are
right
here.
C
A
Hey
awesome,
Peter,
that's
was
a
fantastic
appreciate.
Presentation,
definitely
appreciated
good
conversation.
You
got
us
thinking
about
some
things
that
I
think
everyone
wants
to
take.
A
look
at
I
did
put
the
link
to
entain
in
the
chat.
So
if
you
guys
want
to
take
a
look
at
that,
I
know
I'm
going
to
be
reaching
out
to
them
and
see
what
they
have
as
well.
So
thank
you
for
that.
You
know
that
was
awesome.
C
A
A
Not
seeing
it
yet
Marvin
I'm
going
to
share
my
screen
and
then
we're
gonna
go
through
the
video
from
the
MBA
technology
conference
just
really
quickly.
Several
people
from
zeventus
and
I
went
to
the
MBA
technology
conference.
Last
week
it
was
in
San,
Jose
California
I
thought
it
was
actually
a
great
event.
Attendance
was
down
from
last
year,
but
there
was
some
great
discussions.
Great
opportunities,
I
think
there
are
quite
a
few
good
leads
that
we
picked
up
from
there
and
we
just
wanted
to
share
this
video
with
you
guys.
D
A
California
was
a
great
first
day
with
an
interesting
presentation
from
the
father
of
IBM's
Watson,
as
a
great
presentation
on
AI
today
started
off
with
another
interesting
presentation
from
the
MBA
on
different
economic
indicators.
The
NBA
expects
probably
another
25
basis,
point
increase
and
then
interest
leveling
off
at
the
end
of
the
year.
Frankly,
attendance
is
down
from
last
year,
but
I've
been
pleasantly
surprised
with
the
number
of
interesting
meetings
and
potential
opportunities
that
we've
been
identified.
A
A
Okay
with
that
then
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
sign
off.
Thank
you
to
everyone
for
attending.
We
will
be
sharing
the
recording
for
this
presentation
on
our
Wiki,
and
usually
we
get
quite
a
few
downloads
on
that.
So
we
will
let
everyone
know
when
the
recording
is
available
again.
Thank
you
Peter
for
attending.
It
was
a
great
presentation
and
thank
you
to
everyone.
Have
a.