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From YouTube: Sustainable Rebound
Description
A recording of the Hyperledger Trade Finance Special Interest Group on June 29, 2021 with a discussion from Rebecca Harding about how blockchain can help with recovery from the pandemic. Recovery from the Covid 19 pandemic has to be sustainable in every sense of the word. This means that we need effective measurements of what is being traded, where it is being traded and who is trading in order to develop the best and most appropriate policy and strategy solutions. We know unsustainable trade outstrips sustainable trade in a ratio of 4:1 - as we start to “build back better” how can big data and digital solutions help?
If you are interested in getting involved with the Trade Finance Special Interest Group, find out more at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/TFSIG/
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A
A
Provides
legal
accounts
of
the
transformation
hyperledger
is
committed
to
creating
a
safe
and
welcoming
community
for
following
the
information.
Please
visit
our
hyperledger
code
of
conduct
so
welcome
everybody.
This
meeting
we're
going
to
have
a
very
special
guest,
rebecca
harding
from
coriolis
technologies.
We're
going
to
talk
about
sustainability
and
data.
A
B
B
Now
we're
beginning
to
see
if
you
like
the
green
shoots
of
recovery
creeping
through
in
a
lot
of
the
data,
but
I
think
as
an
economist,
but
also
somebody
who
studies,
world
trade
and
world
trade
finance.
The
big
thing
that's
coming
through
for
me
at
the
moment
is
the
fact
that
we
shouldn't
be
going
back
to
business
as
usual
after
the
last
financial
crisis.
I
think
if
you
look
at
what
happened,
we
all
said
during
the
financial
crisis,
things
have
to
change.
Things
have
to
get
better.
B
We
need
a
new
business
model
that
process
through
the
immediate
aftermath
of
the
last
global
financial
crisis
and
up
to
up
to,
if
you,
if
you
like
the
covert
pandemic,
didn't
change
anything,
and
in
fact
what
did
happen
was
we
saw
increased
economic
nationalism.
We
saw
increased
competition
between
states
and,
what's
happened
of
course
is.
B
B
B
The
coriolis
data
says
well,
it
was
around
18
in
terms
of
a
drop
in
values,
but
by
the
end
of
the
year
we
looked
like
we
were
coming
back
to
somewhere
approaching
normal
again,
so
18
drop
in
values.
We
also
have
massive
deflation.
We
also
had
currency
volatility,
so
taking
all
of
that
into
account.
World
trade
actually
looked
like
it
was
back
somewhere
near
normal
by
the
end
of
the
year
and
certainly
coming
into
2021
with
the
rate
at
which
things
are
picking
up.
Yes,
we've
got
supply
chain
disruption.
B
B
It's
actually
altered
the
way,
we're
looking
at
the
role
of
banks,
the
role
of
trade
finance
professionals,
because
the
crisis
itself,
apart
from
this
short
term
issue
of
trade
falling
back
the
crisis
itself,
made
us
all
look
at
what
was
actually
going
on.
We
had
more
time
in
front
of
our
computer
screens.
We
could
see
that
a
lot
of
what
was
happening
was
actually
happening
before
the
pandemic
struck.
B
So
I've
already
talked
a
little
bit
about
competition
between
states.
We
now
have
as
a
dominant
theme
of
world
trade
and
we've
seen
that
with
the
g7.
We
will
see
that
with
the
g20
trade
wars
actually
having
a
big
impact
on
the
way
in
which
we're
formulating
strategies
towards
trade
and
where
trade
sits
in
foreign
policy
terms.
B
We've
also
got
supply
chain
disruption
and
we're
seeing
that
in
the
semiconductor
sector,
but
we're
also
seeing
it
in
vaccine
nationalism
and
the
way
in
which
vaccines
are
being
distributed
around
the
world.
Some
parts
of
the
world
getting
good
supplies
of
medical
equipment,
ppe
equipment
and
vaccines.
B
It's
a
discussion
around
digitization
and
I
don't
need
to
tell
this
audience
just
how
how
important
digitisation
is
we're
beginning
to
see
ways
of
shortening
shortening
decision
making
widening
access
to
parts
of
the
trade
community,
particularly
in
the
small
and
medium-sized
sector,
in
emerging
economies
that
are
now
reachable,
because
there
are
digital
processes
out
there.
That
will
enable
them
to
participate
and
a
lot
of
that.
The
big
risk
again
is
that
everything
it
becomes
becomes
non-standardized
and
we
increase
the
amount
of
digital
islands.
B
I
think
what's
happened
over
the
last
18
months
is
that
people
have
begun
to
realize.
We
can't
do
that
anymore.
We've
got
to
have
standardized
processes
and
we've
got
to
be
doing
all
of
this
together.
So
the
fourth
thing
that
has
really
accelerated
during
the
last
18
months
is
the
theme
of
today,
which
is
sustainability.
B
Sustainability
means
not
having
trade
wars,
it
means
not
competing.
It
means
having
a
multilateral
approach
to
what
is
a
planetary
problem.
It's
not
something
that
is
just
chinese
or
just
american
or
just
german
or
just
british.
It's
something
that
affects
every
single
person
on
this
planet,
because
resources
are
becoming
depleted.
People
are
being
treated
unfairly.
B
What's
happened
is
we've
become
less
generous
with
our
rhetoric.
Around
trade
we've
started
talking
about
competition
and
strategic
competition,
but
if
we
go
back
to
the
basic
benefits
of
trade
all
those
years
ago,
trade
should
be
about
increasing
opportunities.
It
should
be
about
economic
development
as
well
as
economic
growth.
It
should
be
about
solutions
for
emerging
economies
that
are
appropriate
to
those
emerging
economies.
That's
what
we
as
trade
professionals,
believe
we
are
doing.
B
It's
not
about
exploitation,
it's
not
about
human
rights
abuses
and
it's
certainly
not
about
climate
destruction,
so
in
other
words,
sustainability
should
be
used
almost
synonymously
with
trade
or
certainly
in
conjunction
with
trade.
And
what
we're
beginning
to
see
is
that
trade
is
beginning
to
come
under
a
regulatory
and
compliance
agenda.
B
That
means
that
there's
a
lot
more
confusion
around
what
sustainability
means
and
I
think,
there's
a
real
risk,
and
this
again
will
be
one
of
the
big
themes
of
this
talk.
There's
a
real
risk
that,
as
we
move
more
towards
sustainability
disclosures
in
the
eu,
the
uk
and
the
us,
we
start
to
get
more
of
a
compliance,
driven
move
towards
sustainability
and
less
of
an
opportunity
driven
an
incentivization
driven
move
to
sustainability.
B
So
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
trade
finance
links
everything
together.
Sustainable
trade,
as
I've
already
said,
is
absolutely
key.
So
one
of
the
things
that
we've
done
in
coriolis
and
I
can
demonstrate
our
data
to
you
at
a
later
stage
if
we
have
time
but
one
of
the
things
that
we've
done
is
we've
looked
at
all
of
the
products
that
are
traded
all
the
way
around
the
world
and
we've
mapped
them
against
whether
they
meet
sustainable
development
goals
positively
or
negatively.
B
B
It's
fair
to
say
everyone
is
talking
about
it.
Everybody
is
looking
at
how
to
implement
taxonomies,
how
to
make
their
trade
more
sustainable,
how
to
make
their
decision-making
and
their
credit
allocations
more
sustainable
and
the
problem
when
everyone
starts
talking
about
it.
Is
you
get
a
proliferation
of
research
of
metrics
of
money
going
into
all
of
these
things?
B
And
let's
just
have
a
look
at
the
numbers
that
I've
put
here
in
the
u.s
alone:
there's
17
trillion
dollars
worth
of
assets
under
management
in
sustainability,
related
investment
funds-
that's
ballooned
over
the
last
three
or
four
years,
because
suddenly
everyone
is
wanting
to
have
a
little
piece
of
sustainability
globally,
it's
30
trillion
in
terms
of
assets
under
management.
That's
nearly
twice
the
size
of
the
global
trade
finance
sector.
Trade
finance
really
needs
to
catch
up
because
we
we
should
be
doing
this.
B
I
think
this
is
the
most
important
thing:
eu
sustainability
disclosure
reporting
a
lot
of
sustainability
in
eu
frameworks,
including
the
taxonomy
which
is
being
agreed
and
has
been
agreed.
All
of
this
is
about
green,
green
and
climate
change
protocols,
nothing
wrong
with
that,
but
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we're
talking
about
income
that
we're
talking
about
human
rights
that
we're
talking
about
decent
work
as
well.
The
eu-
the
eu-
has
done
a
lot
in
terms
of
its
taxonomy
I'll
talk
about
that
in
a
little
bit
more
detail
in
a
second.
B
It's
done
a
lot
in
terms
of
its
taxonomy
to
enable
the
measurement
of
sustainability.
But
again
it's
all
about
green.
It's
not
necessarily
about
other
areas
as
well.
The
uk
sustainability
disclosures-
those
are
similar.
The
us
has
gone
very
much
along
a
climate
change
route
with
its
with
its
cross-border
carbon
tax.
Interesting
thing
happening,
though,
recently
with
the
united
states
in
terms
of
how
it's
trying
to
build
back
better.
It's
supply
chain
review
for
the
first
hundred
days
in
in
biden's
administration.
B
It's
supply
chain
review,
it's
actually
prioritizing
human
rights
abuses
or
addressing
human
rights
abuses
and
and
sustainability
in
a
more
social
sense
within
supply
chains.
But
you
kind
of
get
the
feeling
that
that's
a
way
of
isolating
china,
rather
than
something
that's
going
to
apply
across
all
supply
chains
everywhere
in
the
world.
B
The
other
encouraging
thing
is
that
a
lot
of
the
recovery
packages
that
have
been
put
together
during
the
covey
pandemic
have
actually
had
have
had
sustainability
criteria
attached
to
them.
So
the
eu
recovery
fund,
just
under
a
third
of
the
mountains,
is
actually
committed
to
sustainability
through
green
bonds.
But
again,
this
is
all
about
green.
There
are
other
areas
of
sustainability
that
are
just
about
the
way
we
run
our
businesses
and
the
way
we
treat
our
people
and
those
who
have
to
be
built
in
as
well.
B
B
Well,
because
if
you
look
at
the
big
conflict
that
we've
seen
over
the
last
four
or
five
years
between
china
and
the
united
states
and
the
united
states
and
russia
to
some
extent,
which
keeps
bubbling
up
over
up
up
from
underneath
the
surface,
you
can
say
the
united
states
is
trying
to
out-maneuver
in
terms
of
the
game's
game
of
chess.
Both
china
and
russia
and
russia
also
plays
chess,
tries
to
outmaneuver
and
disrupt
everybody's
moves
on
on
on
the
board.
B
China
doesn't
play,
doesn't
play
chess
at
all,
it
plays
a
game
called
go
and
go
is
strategic
means
it
can
have
war
and
peace
coexisting.
It's
trying
to
gain
influence
around
the
world.
The
eu,
in
contrast,
plays
a
card
game
called
happy
families
which
I'm
sure
everyone
knows.
You
collect
little
groups
of
happy
families
together.
B
It's
not
strategic
as
such,
and
the
eu
has
only
recently
realized
that
it
does
have
that
amount
of
power
as
a
regulatory
superpower
to
make
a
difference
in
the
sustainability
space,
and
I
would
argue
that
that
is
actually
the
most
important
thing
that
the
eu
can
do.
It
can
actually
lay
down
frameworks
because
it,
although
it
accounts
for
32
percent
of
world
trade,
it's
reaches
far
wider
in
terms
of
where
it's
importing
from
how
it
imports
and
the
types
of
products
that
it
imports
and
the
extent
to
which
it
can
lead.
B
So
the
eu
trade
strategy
is
also
really
interesting,
because
it
is
a
very
different
perspective
on
trade
compared
to
the
way
in
which
the
way
in
which
the
framework
is
happening
in
the
united
states.
So
the
the
eu's
trade
strategy
acknowledges
the
fact
that
it
wants
to
be
autonomous.
It's
quite
assertive
in
terms
of
its
language,
in
the
same
way
that
the
one
from
the
united
states
or
the
united
kingdom
is
but
what's
interesting
about
the
eu
trade
strategy.
B
B
I
just
want
to
dwell
on
a
few
numbers
here,
because
I've
been
looking
at
intra
regional
trade
via
our
coriolis
data
intra-regional
trade
between
the
eu
27,
so
I've
taken
the
united
kingdom
out
and
if
you
look
at
what's
going
on
you're
beginning
to
see
a
pattern,
that's
common
across
the
world
which
is
more
intra-regional
trade
and
particularly
in
these
sustainability
products.
So
there's
a
lot
of
self-sufficiency.
B
B
Similarly,
wind
turbines
nearly
7
6.5
and
in
solar
panels,
where
there
was
a
lot
of
chinese
influence,
for
example,
trades
has
been
growing
at
nine
percent
since
2016
within
the
european
union
itself,
so
there
is
a
sense
in
which
there's
going
to
be,
and
trade
did
fall
back
in
2020,
there's
no
doubt
about
it.
But
if
you
look
at
the
patterns
that
were
there
before
the
pandemic,
this
is
actually
sustainability
is
a
way
that
intra-regional
trade
within
europe
can
grow.
B
But
let's
go
back
to
this
compliance
question,
because
unless
we,
unless
we
talk
about
this-
and
unless
we
find
a
way
of
dealing
with
all
of
this
from
a
sustainable
perspective,
using
the
digital
tools
that
are
at
our
fingertips,
this
growing
regulatory
pressure
is
risky
for
trade.
It's
it
what
it
will
do.
Is
it
the
more
regulations
we
have,
the
more
likely
we
are
to
exclude
small
and
medium-sized
companies
and
exclude
emerging
markets
from
what
we're
doing,
and
let's
have
a
look
at
legal
and
regulatory
risk.
B
First
of
all,
the
pressure
to
comply
and
maintain
a
license
to
operate.
These
are
the
pressures
that
banks
are
under
at
the
moment.
Operational
risk,
what
are
clients
doing?
What
are
they?
What
are
they
doing
in
terms
of
rainforest
risk
climate
change
risk
and
what
are
the
consequences
in
terms
of
the
legal
and
regulatory
framework
that
the
the
banks
are
operating
in
and
then
in
terms
of
reputation?
B
B
B
A
trade
finance
provider
is
is
facing,
and
the
problem
is,
I
remember,
sitting
on
a
committee
a
few
years
ago
or
a
presentation
a
few
years
ago,
when
a
bunch
of
lawyers
were
talking-
and
they
said-
oh
well,
we
we're
going
to
find
it
really
difficult
to
measure
sustainability
and
it's
just
going
to
become
another
thing.
Another
check
check
box
exercise,
it's
box
sticking
exercise
and
it's
just
going
to
add
to
the
compliance
nightmare
that
we
have.
That
doesn't
mean
we
shouldn't
be
doing
it.
B
It
means
that
we
have
to
find
a
technological
way
of
solving
that
problem,
and
here
is
the
problem.
There
is
no
easily
accessible
and
complete
data
set
up
to
this
point
to
date
to
support
commercial
banks.
So
there's
nothing.
That's
simple
out
there,
the
more
I
dig
into
this.
The
more
I
realize
that
the
problem
we've
created
for
ourselves
is
actually
that
there's
just
too
much
information
and
getting
all
of
this
in
one
place
and
taking
it
down
to
a
solution
that
is
really
simple
and
obvious
is
is
something
that
needs
to
happen
now.
B
I
have
a
huge
advantage
here,
I'm
an
economist,
so
I'm
very
used
to
reducing
things
down
to
their
supply
and
demand
and
their
product
basics.
But
let's
have
a
look
at
what
the
problems
are
for
banks
at
the
moment
are
currently
not
required
to
report
by
esg
by
law,
so
the
data
is
patchy
so
until
that
actually
comes
in
where
a
company
is
required
to
report-
and
there
are
changes
that
is
beginning
to
happen
in
across
the
eu
and
the
us
and
the
uk,
it
is
beginning
to
happen,
but
the
benefits
of
reporting
aren't
clear.
B
So
there's
no
incentivization
there
at
the
moment
there
are
one
or
two
green
bonds.
There
are
one
or
two
credit
incentives
out
there
beginning
to
emerge
one
or
two
banks
beginning
to
put
this
into
their
framework,
but
the
process,
but
the
benefits
are
still
not
so
widely
known
that
companies
do
it
automatically,
and
this
is
part
of
the
problem.
B
There
are
supply-side
incentives.
There
are,
as
I
said,
one
or
two
credit
incentives
out
there
that
can
solve
the
problem,
but
the
problem
is
that
there's
no
standardized
or
default
process
for
allocating
esg
scores
and
that's
the
biggest
one,
which
is
that
we
we
we
don't
have
a
standardized
digital,
automated
and
independent
way
of
doing
this
at
the
moment,
that's
going
to
enable
us
to
take
this
through
in
a
standardized
and
uniform
and
autonomous
way.
So
it
means
that
the
net,
the
it's
almost
a
vicious
circle.
B
B
So
let's
unpack
it.
There
are
three
ways,
and
this
is
the
problem
that
coriolis
has
been
trying
to
solve.
If
you
like,
so
I'm
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
now
about
our
solution,
you
can
understand
shipping
and
logistics
through
trade
flows,
and
a
lot
of
the
data
that
I've
collected
has
been
about
in
this
present
together
in
this
presentation
has
been
about
the
shipping
and
logistics
flows
that
we
see
in
our
data.
B
So
we
can
understand
if
you
like,
the
the
the
likelihood
that
the
country
overall
it
has
a
sustainable
approach
to
its
trade.
So
we
can
look
at
the
regulatory
framework,
but
we
can
also
look
at
physically
what
comes
into
the
country
and
goes
out
of
the
country
or
region
and
what's
traded
in
terms
of
sustainable
goods.
In
order
to
understand
the
propensity,
if
you
like,
of
a
country
to
become
more
sustainable.
B
So
these
really
what
we
did
was
we
boiled
down,
and
I
I
mean
it's:
we
boiled
everything
down
from
a
from
a
sustainability
point
of
view
from
all
the
complexity
that's
out
there,
including
how
many
pieces
of
rubbish
you,
recycle
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
how
your
sustainable
reporting
goes.
If
you
boil
it
down
to
the
very,
very,
very
simple
basics.
B
B
B
So
denmark
you've
actually
got
nearly
600
percent
difference
between
what
it
says
it's
doing,
and
what
it's
actually
doing,
canada
over
200
percent
france,
nearly
100
germany
round
about
65.
You
can
see
that
all
of
these
countries
actually
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
in
this
this
figure
here,
is
in
terms
of
oak.
It's
actually
creating
a
big
difference,
as
some
of
the
biggest
economies
in
the
world
are
actually
over
or
under
reporting
the
amount
they
trade
or
misreporting
anyway.
B
B
So
it's
almost
inevitably
going
to
be
financing
stuff
that
shouldn't
be
financed.
We
need
this
data
to
understand.
What's
going
on,
let's
have
a
look
at
second-hand
clothing,
and
this
is
one
of
my
favorites.
We
have
a
worrying
growth
in
trade
in
news
clothing
and
the
united
kingdom
is
one
of
the
worst
over
the
last.
B
If
you
look
in
terms
of
exports
as
well,
china
is
also
exporting
large
amounts
of
used
clothing
as
well.
If
you
look
at
these
figures,
there's
a
huge
amount,
if
you're,
literally
the
rag
trade
going
on
around
the
world,
and
what
was
really
interesting
was
that
when
I
looked
at
this
data
on
our
systems,
when
you
look,
it's
actually
the
2020
figures
that
have
grown
most
substantially.
B
So
during
the
covert
pandemic,
where
we
might
have
been
locked
down
in
terms
of
what
we
were
doing,
we
were
buying
cheap,
second
hand
or
or
re
non-recyclable
clothing.
All
the
way
through
there
was
an
exponential
increase,
even
though
trade
everywhere
else
in
the
world,
in
in
a
lot
of
other
sectors,
went
down.
So
this
second-hand
clothing,
this
sort
of
cheaply
non-recyclable
clothing,
is
a
real
issue
for
the
trade
sector,
and
it's
something
that
we
need
to
be
watching.
B
So
this
just
tells
you
a
little
bit
and
about
what's
going
on.
You
can
see
as
well
that
the
the
countries
that
are
at
fault
here
and
growing
most
they're
all
developed
nations,
so
we're
importing
loads
of
this
stuff
and
we're
ex
and
the
countries
that
are
exporting
china,
vietnam.
We
need
to
be
watching
those
particular
trade
flows
in
order
to
see
see
where
we
might
be
financing
something
that
is,
that
is
not
necessarily
compliant
with
sustainability.
B
B
Now.
The
problem
here,
of
course,
is
that
the
world's
really
big
trade's,
really
big-
you
handle
billions
of
data
points
at
any
one
point
in
time,
so
we
have
to
be
looking
at
a
digital
solution
to
this.
It
has
to
be
automated
and
it
has
to
be
independent
because
it
can't
be
fixed
by
the
companies
themselves.
B
But
if
we
can
do
this,
what
do
banks
need
to
know
they
need
to
have
product
and
transactions
level
esg
scores?
They
need
to
know
company
esg
status
akin
to
an
aml
or
kyc.
The
eu
taxonomy
does
a
lot
of
that.
They
need
to
know
the
supply
chain
esg
status
and
then
obviously
the
country
as
well
so
again
taking
it
to
the
level
where
we
can
actually
start
to
measure
things,
it's
that
product
and
transaction,
that
matching
of
products
every
single
time.
B
That
makes
this
the
very
simple
thing
that
we
should
start
with:
it's
crazy
to
even
try,
isn't
it
well.
My
answer
to
that
and
coriolis's
answer
to
that
is
always
no,
never
never
try
boiling
the
ocean.
Let's
take
it
down
to
something
very,
very,
very
simple:
we
can
map
products
to
sustainable
development
goals
on
our
website.
You'll
see
how
we've
done
this
for
the
top
20
trading
nations,
the
ones
that
are
positive,
the
ones
that
are
negative
against
sustainable
development
goals.
B
It
immediately
means
that,
because
we
have
mapped
the
hs
codes,
which
are
the
goods
that
ever
codes,
that
every
single
exporter
has
to
have
and
every
single
importer
has
to
have
against
their
product
as
they're
trading,
because
it
goes
through
customs
and
excise
that
has
to
be
tracked.
That
is
track.
So
that's
a
uniform
measurement.
The
second
uniform
measurement
is
the
united
nations
sustainable
development
goals.
We
can
map
all
of
this
and
we
can
score
it
according
to
their
negative
or
positive
impact
on
sustainable
development
goals.
B
Now
I've
put
I've,
put
some
links
there
because
of
time.
I
won't
go
through
and
demo
now,
but
if
anyone's
interested
at
the
end
of
the
session
I
can
do,
but
then
we
can
also
take
that
product
level
and
that
product
level
scoring
and
and
match
the
sustainable
development
goals
and
because
we've
got
the
product
level
information
we
can
also
match
to
dual
use
goods,
in
other
words,
goods
that
are
used
for
sustainable
goods
that
are
used
for
military
or
civilian
process
purposes.
B
Bill
of
lading
data
and
coriolis
has
access
to
bill
of
lading
data
as
well
as
trade
flow
data
around
the
world
gives
the
product
codes
so
at
a
company
level
and
a
supply
chain
level.
If
we
have
those
product
codes,
we
can
match
them
and
then
we
can
match
the
company
and
score
the
company
for
every
single
aspect
of
sustainable
development
and
that
then
becomes
very
powerful.
B
So
it's
a
mind-numbingly,
simple
process
that
we
have
here:
it's
simply
to
match
the
product
or
the
service
by
in
terms
of
what
it's
doing
to
either
dual
use
goods
or
sustainability
through
sustainable
development
goals.
It's
uniform,
it's
standard,
it
can't
be
gained
by
the
company
and
what
we've
done
here
is
develop
a
product
which
actually
scores
a
business
automatically
from
outside
by
checking
for
governance
things,
so
it
checks
every
single
company
for
governance.
It
checks
every
single
company
for
whether
their
directors
are
sanctioned,
whether
the
company
is
sanctioned.
B
What
currency
it's
trading
in
whether
it's
website
is
valid,
is
valid
or
not
or
prone
to
fraud,
but
then,
most
importantly
of
all,
it
provides
a
score
for
sustainable
development
and
dual
use
goods.
It's
automated
and
it
doesn't
need
any
intervention
from
the
company
at
all.
So
it's
something
that
banks
can
actually
use
now.
This
is
a
coriolis
score,
actually
313..
B
The
maximum
score
we
can
get
is
330.
But
if
you
look
the
reason
why
down
here,
I've
got
lower
scores
for
coriolis
is
because
the
company
address
doesn't
quite
match
bureau
of
van
dyke
and
we
couldn't
find
ourselves
in
one
of
the
other
company
databases.
So
we
need
to
go
back
and
check
that,
but
it
gives
an
automated
idea
of
of
the
sustainability
of
a
company
and
it
can
be
taken
down
to
every
single
transaction
automated
in
exactly
the
same
way.
B
So
we've
scaled,
this
we've
taken
it
through
the
world
is
our
cosmos.
We
call
our
sustainability,
esg
monitoring,
tool,
cosmos
and
this.
So
what
we've
done
is
we've
scaled.
This
whole
approach
from
the
product
to
the
company
to
the
supply
chain
to
the
country
and
we've
we've
started
working
on
this
with
the
uk.
We
can
see
where
the
most
sustainable
suppliers
are
country-wide.
B
We
can
see
where
the
most
sustainable
supply
chains
are.
Andrea
will
be
delighted
that
italy
is
at
the
top
there
and
we've
looked
at
the
most
sustainable
companies
as
well.
So
this
is
just
a
way
of
using
the
product
and
what
the
company
is
doing
to
score
a
company
and
score
a
supply
chain
and
score
a
country.
B
So,
just
to
conclude
and
then
I'll
take
questions
is
sustainability.
Another
digital
island
can
it
afford.
Can
we
afford
to
make
this
another
digital
island?
I'd
say
the
answer
to
that
question
is
absolutely
no.
The
solution
is
in
data
aggregation
and
standardization
and
the
best
way
to
standardize
something
is
obviously
through
the
things
that
we
know
not
the
things
that
we
don't
know
all
the
things
that
we
could
make
up.
We
know
about
a
company's
product
that
data
is
available
in
customs
and
excise
data.
B
We
know
that
the
product
code
is
standardized
and
we
know
that
the
sdgs
at
a
united
nations
level
and
dual
use
goods
are
also
standardized.
We
need
to
scale
this
quickly.
If
it's
going
to
work,
we
need
a
collaborative
approach.
We
need
to
hook
up
with
with
digital
frameworks
and
hyperledger
excellent,
excellent,
starting
points
we
need
to.
B
We
need
to
think
about
e-bills
of
lading
how
we
include
products
in
those
e-bills
of
lading,
but
it
means
that
we
could
actually
start
passporting
esg
very
soon
at
a
product
level
for
trade
finance
compliance,
it's
independent,
that's
a
prerequisite
for
the
sector,
and
it
must
be
interoperable.
We
have
a
web-based
platform,
it
can
be
built
in
through
apis
as
well.
The
problem
is
universal.
We
have
to
work
together
on
this
and
the
problem
is
universal.
So
mr
solution
b-
and
thank
you
very
much
indeed
for.
A
Thank
you
so
much
rebecca.
It
was
a
very
compelling
presentation.
I
really
enjoyed
it.
I
lived
into
the
attendance
to
to
make
questions
to
rebecca.
This
is
a
unique
chance
to
to
hear
from
her
directly
I'm
going
to
particularly
enjoy
this
topics,
because
I'm
deeply
interested
in
esg
and
in
climate
change-
and
you
know
we
just
launched
two
weeks
ago-
a
project
which
is
called
breaking
silence
for
coming
up
together
with
blockchain-based
solutions
that
integrate
trade,
trade
fans
with
other.
You
know,
disciplines,
supply,
chain,
climate
change,
coming
all
together
for
delivering
interesting
projects.
B
I
can
see
a
question
there
from
thomas
yeah
that
it
should
be
as
simple
to
understand,
as
the
energy
efficiency
scale
absolutely
agree
with
you
completely,
and
the
idea
that
we're
working
on
now
is
that
this
is
totally
simple,
because
it's
it's
hs
code,
it's
related,
so
the
advantage
of
an
hs
code
is
that
it
is
a.
It
is
a
tool.
That's
out
there
already
it's
a
matching
product,
that's
already
there,
so
it
either
is
a
sustainable
matching,
a
sustainable
development
goal
or
isn't
what
zero
one
and
it's.
B
If
it's
matching
a
sustainable
development
goal,
then
it's
either
doing
that
in
a
positive
way
or
a
negative
way,
zero
one.
So
the
idea
is
that
if
you
use
already
existing
frameworks
and
coding
and
the
eu
taxonomy
we've
looked
at
that
in
detail,
the
eu
taxonomy
actually
does
the
same
thing
it
matches
by
sector
and
behaviors
to
sustainable
development
goals
and
says
where
they
think
it's
improving
or
or
or
damaging.
So
what
we
can
do
is
then
scale
that
into
a
score,
that's
very,
very
simple:
zero
one.
It
either
is
positive
or
it's
negative.
B
It
matches
or
it
doesn't
match,
and
so
the
idea
with
all
of
this
is
yes,
it's
as
simple:
it's
intuitive
anybody
in
trade
trading
products
and
anybody
in
trade
finance
understands
the
need
that
this
has
to
be
at
a
contract
level
and
has
to
be
at
a
at
a
at
a
transactions
level.
That
transaction
is
always
associated
with
a
product
going
across
a
border
that
metric
is
always
there.
So
it's
desperately
simple.
I
mean
I'm
I'm
in
in
willing
the
poo
terms.
B
I
am
a
bearer
of
very
little
brain,
I'm
an
economist,
and
I
like
reducing
things
down
to
their
very,
very,
very
simple
levels.
You
start
with
the
product
because
we
know
that
we
start
with
sustainable
development
goals,
because
we
know
that
and
we
can
take
it
out
and
make
it
more
complicated
from
there.
But
the
basic
premise
is
a
very
simple
one.
A
B
Okay,
I
mean,
I
think
blockchain
is
incredibly
important
as
a
digital
tool
within
the
framework
of
within
the
framework
of
trade
finance,
and
I
agree
it's
going
to
become
incredibly
important.
I
I
think
blockchain
solutions
are
are
most
important,
where
it's
handling
data
from
the
user
or
from
either
either
on
the
supply
side,
the
banks
or
the
demand
side.
B
Because
there's
this
huge,
I
mean
the
big
blockchain
problem,
the
big
digital
problem,
the
big,
the
big
problem
that
the
banks
have
in
terms
of
standardization,
automation
through
blockchains
and
through
supply
chains,
is
the
fact
that
there
is
this
3.4
trillion
dollar
gap
in
sme
trade
finance
you
get
you
can.
You
can
do
blockchains
with
very
large,
very
large
organizations,
but
once
you
start
getting
down
to
the
demand
side
in
small
companies
like
coriolis,
like
all
of
us
around
on
this
call,
once
you
start
getting
down
to
that
type
of
level,
it's
very
very
difficult.
B
So
we
have
that
gap
that
three
that
that
3.4
trillion
that
gap
is
there,
because
it's
a
market
failure.
So
what
we're
trying
to
do
with
our
solution
actually
is
is
inject
the
demand
side
into
this,
so
that
we
begin
to
understand
now
ultimately
we'll
be
handling
so
much
data
that
we
will
need
blockchains
as
well.
I
think
blockchain
becomes
a
critical
part
of
that
data
infrastructure.
B
The
problem
that
blockchain
has
is
that
data
gets
locked
in
it
and
we
need
to
be
able
to
find
a
way
of
analyzing
the
metadata
within
a
blockchain
to
be
able
to
understand,
because
actually
that
then
makes
tokens
easier.
It
makes
digital
currencies
easier.
It
means
that
we
can
start
to
release
all
sorts
of
potential
within
the
blockchain
world
and
into
a
blockchain
universe.
B
Once
we
start
being
able
to
understand
the
date,
the
metadata
within
a
blockchain-
and
you
know,
as
a
data
scientist,
that
would
be
my
main,
my
main
challenge
in
terms
of
blockchain
over
the
next
five
years.
How
do
we
start
using
that
information
for
good?
Because
with
that,
that's
actually
what
we
need
to
start
doing,
I
think
blockchain
will
grow.
A
There's
one
thing
rebecca:
I
wanted
to
ask
you
what
about
the
sources
of
data?
You
know.
One
of
the
main
arguments
with
sustainability
is
also
energies,
as
you
said
how
to
capture
some
data.
Take,
for
instance,
the
renewable
energies
that
I
see
there
is
how
to
capture
real
data,
the
one
that
is
close
to
reality
and
how
to
bring
into
blockchain
space.
B
B
You
know
that
that
washing
machine
has
a
certain
distance,
that
it's
got
to
travel
on
a
ship
to
china,
so
you
can
measure
the
co2
emissions.
You
can
measure
the
you
can
measure
things
attached
to
that
particular
that
particular
product.
You
know
the
distance,
you
know
the
type
of
ship
you
know
all
of
you
know
the
information
that's
in
there,
because
you
know
how
far
it's
got
to
travel
and
you
know
ultimately
as
well.
B
I
mean,
if
you
you
know,
trade
lens,
for
example,
knows
what
type
of
container
it
is
and
what
type
of
what
type
of
ship
it
is
as
well.
So
I
mean
all
of
that
is
in
the
bill
of
lading
data.
It's
all
there
all
of
that
information
again
if
we
start
with
that
product
level,
and
we
start
with
what's
being
traded
rather
than
start
with
the
environment,
because
it
sounds
crazy.
B
But
but
if
you
start
with
something
you
know,
you
can
build
out
to
more
complicated
as
measurement
techniques
improve
the
problem
with
trying
to
understand
a
planet
in
another
solar
system
is
that
you
can't
actually
see
it
at
the
moment.
You
know
it's
probably
there
or
you're
trying
to
understand
a
black
hole.
It's
kind
of
a
quantum
problem,
if
you
like
you,
know,
there's
something
out
there.
We
can
use
artificial
intelligence
to
try
and
find
it,
but
let's
start
with
something
the
essence
of
artificial
intelligence
is
that
it
starts
with
intelligence.
B
You
start
with
something
that
you
know,
and
then
you
mirror
and
then
you
use
like
we
have
done
with
trade
data.
You
mirror
to
find
out
the
things
that
aren't
happening.
That's
how
we
know
that
that
actually
and
developed
world
g20
countries
are
worse
at
sustainability
than
some
of
the
emerging
companies
when
it
comes
to
treat
untreated
oak,
for
example,
it's
how
we
know
that
used
clothing
is
a
real
issue
for
for
developed
countries,
and
I
think
it's
that
mirroring
process,
and
it's
that
artificial
intelligence.
B
We
need
to
build,
we
the
phrase
we
can't
boil
an
ocean.
Well,
the
ocean's
boiling
itself
at
the
moment.
We
don't,
we
don't
need
to
worry
about
boiling
the
ocean.
Let's
start
with
something
that
we
can
measure
and
then
go
out
from
there
and
it
sounds
it
sounds.
It
sounds
sort
of
almost
glib,
but
if
we
start
with
something
we
can
do,
then
we're
more
likely
to
get
something
up
and
running
quickly.
B
We
can
build
from
there
and
then
once
we're
building
from
there
we're
going
to
be
able
to
have
a
we're
going
to
have
a
more
intelligent
conversation
about
what
we
need
to
do
next,
because
there
are
gis
systems,
I
mean.
If
you
look
at
the
work.
Sorry,
the
world
wildlife
fund
for
nature
has
this
spatial
finance
tool
that
it's
built.
B
If
you
were
the
world
trade
organisation,
the
united
nations
and
the
imf
and
the
world
bank
together,
you
would
not
be
able
to
build
the
world
wildlife
fund
for
nature's
technology
system
for
for
spatial
finance
immediately.
But
we've
started
the
process
of
doing
that
because
we
know
the
product
we
can
take
it
down.
We
can
solve
that
most
difficult
problem.
B
B
I
think
so
I
mean
blockchain
crypto
crypto,
all
of
those
types
of
things,
they're
kind
of
I.
I
listened
to
a
consumer
program
on
the
radio
the
other
day
and
they
were
talking
about
blockchain
and
crypto,
as
if
it
were
something
that
was
creeping
into
your
creeping
into
your
living
room
and
you
should
be
very
scared
of
and-
and
I
was
really
cross
because
you're
absolutely
right.
It
is
an
issue
about
getting
people
to
trust
blockchain,
but
it's
not
blockchain.
B
B
You
can't
see
trade
lens
data.
You
can't
see
r3
data,
you
can't
see
tradeix
data,
there's
nothing
voltron
data,
there's
nothing
there.
You
can't
see
it
it's
owned
by
the
user,
and
I
think
that
is
the
message
that
needs
to
get
out.
Actually
you
know
the
issue
is
about
who
owns
your
data
and
on
a
blockchain.
The
user
owns
their
data
if
you're
looking
at
open
banking
implementation
or
you're.
Looking
at
pds2
or
you're,
looking
at
any
of
these
things,
it's
all
about
data,
it's
not
about
the
technology
behind
the
data.
B
So
that's
where
the
lack
of
trust
comes
in.
You
know.
If,
if
data
is
you
know
the
new
trade
war
which,
to
some
extent
it
is,
then
you
know
the
the
risk
at
the
moment.
Is
everybody
saying?
Oh
huawei
owns
all
of
all
of
our
data,
and
so
we
need
to
take
huawei
out
of
5g
systems
and
we
need
to
take
chinese
interests
out
of
5g
systems,
but
if
there
are
blockchains
there,
actually
the
user
still
owns
their
data.
Nobody
else
can
see
it
and
that's
what
we
need
to
get
out.
B
It's
about
promoting
open
data,
it's
not
about
it's,
not
about
promoting
the
technology.
It's
about
helping
people
understand
what
using
their
own
data
means,
and
I
can
see
a
question
on
on
use
of
data
where
we
get
data
from
so
the
data.
We
don't
we
don't
use,
we
we
don't
use
trade
lens
data,
I
I
would
love
it.
If
we
could,
we
don't
use
trade
lens
data.
We
we
cr,
we've
curated
our
own
data,
so
our
data
comes
from
national
statistics
offices.
B
B
So
it's
not
as
detailed
as
some
of
the
bill
of
lading
data
that
you
get
for
from
from
countries
from
companies
like
ihs
or
or
pangeeva-
it's
not
as
detailed,
but
we
can
infer
it
because
we're
matching
it
against
the
trade
flows
that
we
pick
up
from
the
united
nations.
So
we
have
got.
We
have
got
a
data
source
that
we've
actually
curated
ourselves
and
we've
cleaned
it
and
we've
harmonized
it
and
it's
monthly
and
it
goes
up
to
the
end
of
the
last
calendar
month.
So
it's
actually
better.
B
That
data
comes
from
publicly
available
sources,
it
comes
from
web
scraping,
it
comes
from.
It
comes
from
checks
against
sanctions,
it
comes
from
checking
the
product
itself
against
dual
use:
goods
and
esg's
sustainable
development
goals.
So
all
of
our
data
is
curated
ourselves.
We've
been
going
now
for
four
years
before
that
I
ran
another
trade
trade
data
company,
so
the
data
has
been
through
been
through
every
single
possible
testing
mechanism
and
we
use
artificial
intelligence
to
create
data
where
there
isn't
any
so,
for
example,
africa.
The
data
is
absolutely
appalling.
B
Everybody
would
admit
that,
and
so
we,
this
mirroring
process
this
quantum
process.
If
you
like,
we
know
there
is
trade
happening
in
africa
once
you
mirror
it,
and
once
you
begin
to
build
up
patterns
using
other
data
sources,
you
can
begin
to
create
data
for
countries
that
aren't
on
in
in
common
trade
or
or
the
international
statistics.
B
It's
usually
younger
companies
that
have
less
track
record,
and
so
blockchain
is
a
way
of
providing
that
degree
of
security
to
those
businesses
and
reassurance
to
the
banks
as
well
that
there's
that
there's
nothing
going
on,
there's
nothing
and
no
suspicious
activity.
So
I
think
I
I
don't
see
blockchain
as
an
enabling
tool
for
currencies.
I
see
blockchain
as
a
security
mechanism
and
as
a
way
of
providing
greater
security
both
to
the
user
and
and
well
to
the
company
and
to
the
banks
on
the
demand
and
the
supply
side.