►
From YouTube: FireFly Meet the Experts
Description
Brian Behlendorf, Executive Director, Hyperledger
Peter Broadhurst, Co-Founder, Head of Engineering, Kaleido
Steve Cerveny, Founder & CEO, Kaleido
Jon Labrie, SVP, Blockchain Systems & Applications, Greenfence
Sophia Lopez, Founder & COO, Kaleido
Tony Sasso, Head of Product Operations, RiskStream Collaborative
Gari Singh, PM, Google
Hear from leading experts in the space on the pain points addressed by a multi-party system, and what are some of the unique challenges and opportunities.
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
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Events: https://www.hyperledger.org/events
Vendor Directory: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/vendor-directory
Subscribe to the Hyperledger Newsletter: https://www.hyperledger.org/newsletter
Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
A
Okay,
well,
thank
you,
everyone,
I
think
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
started,
appreciate
all
the
participation
here
we
have
in
our
book
for
this
discussion.
We've
got
a
lot
of
folks,
I'm
looking
at
that.
We've
smiling
faces
here
that
have
worked
with
in
different
contexts:
different
perspectives
in
the
industry,
some
really
cool
projects
as
well.
So
I'm
looking
forward
to
this
discussion
we're
going
to
keep
it
pretty
free-flowing
and
and
just
kind
of
roll
with
the
topics
we
obviously
wanted
to
to
focus
on.
A
You
know
firefly
a
bit
and
multi-party
systems
and
and
why
we
we
think
this
could
be
really
interesting
and
get
your
guys's
input
on
on
that
and
sophia's
gonna
join
back
as
in
in
a
second
as
well
and
she's
participating.
I'm
gonna
be
the
moderator
on
on
this
session.
I
think
before
we
jump
in
if
we
could
just
give
everyone
like
a
20-second
intro
just
to
introduce
yourself
and
I'll
do
the
roll
call,
starting
with
you
tony.
B
C
Great
john
labrie,
I'm
the
cto
of
green
fence
and
that
that
greenpence
has
two
sort
of
business
verticals.
If
you
will,
one
is
consumer
side
which
is
coupons,
rebates
and
collectibles
in
conjunction
with
retailers
and
the
supply
chain,
side
which
is
centered
around
food
safety,
and
we've
been
a
user
of
colorado
technology
for
gosh
a
couple
of
years.
Now
I
don't,
I
think
it's
a
couple
of
years,
at
least.
C
A
D
Through
my
mouth
there
yeah
so
yeah
everything
worked
with
a
few
of
you
characters
in
various
capacities
over
the
years.
Currently
I
I
actually
currently
work
for
for
google
not
related
to
blockchain,
but
you
know
where
google
allows
you
to
work
on
the
open
source
stuff,
especially
if
it's
apache
licensed
so
yeah.
I
was
been
a
maintainer
and
contributor
for
hyperledger
fabric
on
hyperledger.
Tsc
ran
blockchain
at
ibm
for
a
bit
and
yeah
excited
about.
E
B
Thanks
steve
yeah,
this
is
actually
I'm
one
of
the
founders
co-founders
of
collido
and
this
panel's
great
I'm
just
looking
at
all
the
faces.
Gary
we
had
the
privilege
to
work
together,
and
that
was
it's
really
great
to
see
you
again
reconnect,
I
know
guillaume
and
john
have
been
we've
been
working
with
you
guys
for
almost
I
think.
B
Three
years
now,
you
actually
interacted
quite
a
bit
with
some
of
our
open
source
components
of
econnect
that
are
now
part
of
a
firefly
john,
and
you
know
your
team
launched
nfts
three
years
ago,
when
no
one
knew
what
nfts
were,
but
you
were
working
with
all
the
biggest
t-mobile
kroger
sony,
fox,
heineken
and
others,
and
then
tony
tony
leads
a
team.
That's
one
of
the
most
sophisticated
approaches
we've
seen
in
the
industry
for
working
through
use
cases,
bringing
clients
together
into
building
the
consortiums
and
the
product
management,
discipline
and
professionalism
there.
B
Just
mapping
that
now
to
building
decentralized
ecosystems.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
insight
there
and,
of
course
brian.
You
know
it
feels
like
coming
home
coming
back
to
hyperledger,
since
you
know
we
were
there
at
the
the
start.
When
hype,
you
know,
hyperledger
whispers,
formed
and
came
always
loved
your
vision
and
love
to
see
and
how
it's
grown
and
developed
over
the
years
so
welcome
everyone.
I'm
happy
to
be
here
on
the
panel
with
you
guys,
tony.
A
F
A
A
You
know
my
role
is:
is
helping
30
of
the
largest
insurance
companies
in
the
u.s
to
develop
shared
applications
in
the
insurance
and
risk
management
space,
so
really
excited
to
be
here
to
speak
to
y'all
cool.
Well,
just
let's
jump
in
on
right.
There
tony,
you
know
you're
talking
about
the
shared
applications.
A
Maybe
you
could
start
it
with
with
a
couple
thoughts
on
on
you
know,
just
what's
different
about
these
decentralized
applications
that
you
know
the
other
stuff
that
we've
been
doing,
and
we
continue
to
do
what?
What
what
makes
these
particularly
difficult
sure.
So
I
guess
for
me
it's
kind
of
a
or
for
a
wrist
stream.
I
guess
it's
a
double
whammy,
because
not
only
are
our
applications
decentralized,
our
design
process
is
decentralized
as
well.
A
So
you
know
what
makes
this
kind
of
different
is
that,
instead
of
you
know
an
aig
or
instead
of
a
usaa
or
instead
of
a
company
trying
to
put
together
a
core
system
or
something
that
a
technology
product
that
they're
trying
to
put
in
place
to
solve
one
problem
just
for
themselves.
They
need
to
be
able
to
solve
that
problem
collaboratively
with
everybody
else,
and
everybody
on
the
network
needs
to
get
some
sort
of
value.
Out
of
that,
you
know
achieving
that
problem.
A
D
Message:
buses,
service,
oriented
architecture
right:
how
do
we
make
everything
loosely
coupled,
etc,
sort
of
inside
the
enterprise?
Maybe
even
add
you
know
processes
on
top
of
that
and
you
know,
and
then
there
was
some
ability
to
move
data
in
and
out.
You
know
edi
vans,
you
know
sort
of
b2b
stuff
right,
but
as
the
world's
kind
of
going
on
now
right.
D
We
actually
now
need
to
take
those
workflow
and
data
systems
and
they're
now,
not
not
just
part
of
your
company,
but
they
they
have
to
involve
all
of
those
parties
right
and
I
think
for
a
while
there
really
weren't
good
ways
of
making
sure
that
we
could
have.
You
know
the
right
so
the
right
consensus
protocols,
for
example,
right
for
sharing
right
across
this
data
right.
You
know,
especially
when
you
trust,
but
don't
trust
right.
You
know
trust
but
verify
you
know
if
you
will
sort
of
mechanism
right.
So
I
think
that's
been.
D
D
Now
I've
got
this
sort
of
layer
that
handles
the
transactions,
some
of
the
business
logic
and
rules
and
execution.
But
how
do
I
actually
like
build
applications
that
orchestrate
that
stuff
right?
Because
everybody
again
is
still
used
to
just
building
like
my
app
that
I
share
right,
we've
moved
to
a
world
where
I
have
a
web
app
and
everybody
uses
that
web
app
right,
but
this
is
sort
of
different
right.
D
It's
like
I
need
to
have
my
version
of
it
or
your
stuff
right,
it's
more
of
that
interaction
like
workflow
type
type
applications
right,
so
we
got
as
far
as
the
plumbing
layer.
I
think,
but
then
the
next
layer
up
to
really
make
this
take
off
to
match
all
the
stuff
that
you
know.
Sort
of
tony
was
talking
about,
is
to
have
this
kind
of
orchestration
layer
that
spans
enterprises
and
can
leverage
blockchain
technology
so
that
that
had
been
the
gap.
I
think
up
until
you
know
now.
Hopefully.
B
Gary
was
talking
about
just
building
a
whole
solution
around
it,
so
it
ended
up
taking
you
know
a
lot,
a
lot
more
time.
You
know
they
thought
it'd
be
a
couple.
You
know
number
of
months
it
ended
up
being
a
number
of
years.
Maybe
they
never
even
got
into
production
spent
tens
of
millions
of
dollars
a
lot
of
custom
consulting
because
there
was
no
real
open
source
project
that
tackled
those
sorts
of
plumbing
layers
for
them.
B
So
each
time
was
being
rebuilt,
so
I
think
one
of
the
things
we
were
excited
from
the
early
days
is:
how
can
we
really
accelerate
the
adoption
of
this
tech?
You
know
make
sort
of
the
plumbing
the
easy
parts
people
could
focus
on
the
business
application
logic,
business
value,
doing
the
hard
work
like
tony's
doing
around
bringing
stakehold
holders
together
in
the
insurance
industry,
john
who's,
doing
that
indian
entertainment
and
retail
and
supply
chain
spaces.
B
A
Brian
from
from
your
perspective,
you
know
how:
how
has
how
have
you
seen
hyper
ledger
projects
helping
with
some
of
those
problems
and
and
where?
Where
do
you
think
are
sort
of?
Do
you
come
up
against
the
wall
and
you
know:
is
there
an
opportunity
for
another
generation
or
another
wave
of
projects
to
come
and
help?
Maybe
in
some
of
those
areas.
G
Sure
I
mean
you,
you
often
see
conversation
on
the
different
mailing
lists
and
in
in
chat
and
that
sort
of
thing
where
people
are
asking
questions
that
aren't
really
specifically
like,
like.
I
think
I
found
a
bug-
or
I
think,
there's
a
question
with
a
specific
feature,
but
really
questions
about
how
to
do
design
for
distributed
applications
and
this
realization
that
everyone
seems
to
independently
make
once
they
get
in,
but
really
should
be
more
front
center,
which
is
that
blockchains
are
not
a
big
data
tool.
G
Everyone
is
so
wired
around
big
data
and
machine
learning
models,
and
you
know
that
they're
like
this
must
just
be
like
a
gigantic
enterprise
service
bus
right.
You
know,
I
just
want
to
throw
everything
into
it,
but
really
it's
more
of
a
small
batch
artisanal
data
tool
right
and
and
that
you
really
want
to
use
it
as
sparingly
as
as
possible.
G
This
is
how
you
wire
up
the
erp
systems
of
the
world
into
you,
know
one
big,
automated
flow
and
their
examples
you
know
were
just
like
the
worst
there
were
things
like
well,
let's
imagine
you're
the
shoe
industry,
and
this
is
how
you
would
use
this
software
if
you
were
the
shoe
industry.
Well,
no
one
person
is
the
shoe
industry
right.
Everyone
has
their
roles
to
play
and
so
figuring
out
how
to
do
design
of
even
these.
These
individual
blockchain
networks
that
you
build
is
necessarily
a
collaborative
process.
G
It
necessarily
means
talking
with
people
outside
your
organization.
That's
the
kind
of
thing
that
open
source
projects
when
they're
done
right
know
how
to
do,
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
resonance
here
between
those
two
and
I
think,
the
more
that
we
can
try
to
help
people
understand
how
to
how
to
do
those
kinds
of
collaborative
you
know,
communication
and
design
processes,
the
the
better
off.
Even
the
individual
blockchain
projects
built
using
these
tools
will
be.
E
What
you've
got
is
usually
there's
some
kind
of
network
operator.
Maybe
it's
the
you
know
the
best
people
who
know
blockchain
phone
into
a
mix
from
a
whole
bunch
of
companies.
Maybe
it's
a
separate
business
entity.
That's
been
created
and
they're
kind
of
the
only
people
in
the
whole
organization
or
the
whole
of
the
the
network,
that
kind
of
understand
blockchain
at
its
core
and
then
what
you've
actually
got
are
a
whole
bunch
of
business
people
trying
to
use
the
next
generation
of
the
way
that
they're
they're
going
to
solve
a
really
hard
problem.
E
You've
got
web
developers
trying
to
build
great
user
experience
to
to
show
how
these
business
people
can
do
something
better
because
of
blockchain
and
trying
really
hard,
but
not
to
look
like
the
really
ugly,
slow,
multiple
second
for
transaction
mess,
that
they've
seen
else
else
elsewhere
in
the
blockchain
space
and
have
something
that's
great,
feels
good,
responsive
and
and
then
and
then
you've
got.
And
I
guess
I
care
a
lot
about
these
these
guys,
because
I've
worked
with
them
so
long.
E
You've
got
the
enterprise
integration,
people
inside
of
the
organizations
that
look
after
the
core
data
systems
and
the
on-ramps
in
your
fans
of
the
data
and
no
one
ever
gets
passed.
No
one
can
ever
get
to
shadow
production
or
even
and
definitely
not
pass
shallow
production
without
integrating
those
core
systems,
and
so
you've
got
like
you
know,
in
networks
with
10
20,
30
large
organizations,
that's
10,
20,
30
integration
teams
that
need
to
know
how
to
connect
in.
E
A
When
thinking
about
someone
who's
dealt
with
large
organizations
that
may
or
may
not
care
that
blockchain
is
actually
part
of
the
solution,
and
I
see
you
on
the
screen.
But
certainly
you
know
some
ideas
come
to
mind
there.
I
mean
how
how
have
you?
How
have
you
dealt
with
you
know
some
of
these,
these
larger
initiatives
and
projects
over
the
years
and
and
maintaining
that
balance
and
customer
interest,
but
but
trying
to
maintain
the
velocity
of
what
you're,
what
you're
doing.
C
Yeah,
it's
a
great
question.
I
think,
speaking
a
bit
to
what
peter
was
just
saying.
I
think
one
of
the
areas
in
which
we
can
do
better
is
to
to
do
a
little
bit
better
in
terms
of
education
and
and
and
helping
in
the
sort
of
cultural
discussions
that
surround
blockchain
technology
right.
There's
these
natural
tensions
that
exist
when
we're
trying
to
build
a
consortium,
for
example,
if
you're
trying
to
find
four
or
five
or
six
or
ten
organizations
that
would
naturally
want
to
collaborate
together
on
a
a
source
of
shared
truth.
C
Then,
generally
you
would
you
would
you'd
find
you'd
find
that
organizations
that
generally
were
attracted
to
collaborating
in
general
would
be
the
best
candidates,
but
those
aren't
necessarily
the
best
candidates
to
operate
a
shared
of
source
through
a
shared
source
of
truth
right.
You
actually
want
competitors
to
be
in
to
be
in
that
space
because
they
are.
The
narrative
that
you
can
tell
around
that
to
the
rest
of
the
world
is
that
these
people
wouldn't
aren't
naturally
inclined
to
collude
so
you've
got
that
challenge
right.
C
This
natural
tension
between
best
people
would
be
collaborators
the
best
to
to
actually
share
data.
The
best
people
to
actually
operate
a
shared
data
system
are
not
collaborators
at
all.
So
we
have
to
tell
that
story.
I
think
a
little
bit
better.
It's
certainly
something
that
we
struggle
with
the
next
is,
besides
the
sort
of
technical
practitioners
that
are
right
in
the
space.
C
There
are
legacy
systems
and
nobody
really
wants
you
to
disrupt
a
legacy
system
in
order
to
demonstrate
that
you're
gonna
add
value
to
their
operations
unless,
of
course,
you're
gonna
replace
everything
because
everybody
hates
their
legacy
system
right.
So
they'd
love
for
somebody
to
come
in
and
say
you
know.
Actually
tomorrow,
when
you
come
in,
it's
all
going
to
be
different.
It's
all
going
to
work
better,
that's
sort
of,
naturally
in
a
sort
of
balance.
C
If
I
could
jump
into
that.
Very
briefly
is
that
you
know
I
I'm
I've
been.
I
started
out
as
a
miner
in
the
ecosystem.
I've
been
an
ethereum
fan
forever
and
I
see
what's
happened
in
decentralized
finance
there,
specifically
with
the
composability
of
you,
know:
smart
contract
development
across
that
ecosystem,
and
so,
as
these
pieces
become
available,
people
do
crazy
com.
You
know
unimaginable
stuff
with
it
right.
If
you
were
talking
about
smart
contracts
in
2017,
we
were
looking
for
an
example.
C
Everybody
would
say
escrow
right,
an
escrow
contract
today
what
you
can
do
with
maker
and
alchemy
and
curve-
and
I
mean
you,
can
you
can
layer
seven
things
together
to
achieve?
You
know
crazy
returns
on
tokenized
value
that
nobody
could
have
imagined
or
even
described
three
years
ago,
and
I
so
I
think
that
you
know
as
me
as
a
technical
practitioner
and
I'm
sorry.
If
I'm
talking
too
much,
you
know
the
first
thing
I
do
when
I
try
and
solve
a
problem.
C
Is
I
say,
what's
out
there
like
what
what
do
I
not
have
to
build,
because
it
already
exists
right
and
I
and
I
immediately
go
to
the
open
source
community
as
what
I've
done
since
the
late
80s
right,
I'm
sure
there
are
smarter
people
than
me
that
have
already
either
faced
these
problems
and
and
come
up
with
specific
approaches.
So
the
availability
of
something
like
this
even
three
years
ago
would
have
been
like.
Oh,
this
is
great.
I
don't
have
to
solve
any
of
these
issues
any
of
these
technical
issues.
C
A
Thanks
john
dio,
what
what's
your
perspective
on
on
some
of
the
topics
that
that
we've
been
discussing?
You
know?
Maybe
the
mix
or
how
big
is
the
integration
to
the
back
office
system?
How
big
of
a
piece
is
that
in
the
puzzle,
and
what's
your
sense
for
the
mix
of
effort
that
you
apply
to
a
project
sort
of
from
the
business
use
case
down
through
the
plumbing.
F
Yeah
so
yeah
happy
to
share,
and
you
know
we're
working
typically
with
banks
or
other
financial
institutions.
So,
like
john,
is
saying
they're
in
production,
they
have
systems
they're
already
running.
So
I
guess
a
big
part
of
the
the
challenge
then,
is
in
on
the
integration
with
those
systems,
and
you
know
when
I,
when
we
look
on
a
tattoo
side
at
the
state
of
blockchain
today
you
know
we
have
ethereum
like
like
we
were
discussing.
You
know
it's
an
amazing
tool.
F
F
We
see
it
kind
of
like
an
operating
system.
You
know
we're
still
in
the
early
stages,
so
maybe
it's
the
dos
of
you
know
those
new
types
of
computers
that
we
call
blockchains
right
and
so
with
dos
you
can
do
io.
You
can
do
you
know
some
management
features.
You
can
do
some
kind
of
utility
function
that
you
must
build
when
then
you
want
to
develop
applications
on
top
of
it,
and
so
you
know
nobody
today
would
go
and
say:
I'm
gonna
build
a
new
application.
Let's
start
by
writing.
F
You
know
companies
do
not
have
to
reinvent
the
wheel
like
generally
saying,
and
we
can
turn
to
open
source
tools
like
firefly,
and
so
you
know,
I
think
it's
so
complex
that
it's
natural,
that
it's
taken
a
few
years
for
the
community
to
realize
what
shape
a
blockchain
operating
system
has
you
know
and
what
functions
we
want
from
it,
but
to
me
firefly,
it's
kind
of
that
step
along
the
way.
You
know
we
start
to
have
a
better
vision
of
what
it
takes
to
do.
A
E
Maybe
I'll
start
and-
and
so
here
you
can
go
after
I-
I
I
think,
we've
learned
what
success
looks
like
we've
we've
fished
enough
people
out
the
soup
with
tech
to
to
know
kind
of
the
what's
needed,
but
I
think
the
problem
you
know
if,
if
body
party
systems
are
gonna,
be
a
thing,
the
scale
is
big.
You
know
for
ai
to
be
a
thing.
The
scale
is
big
and-
and
I
believe,
as
a
developer
and
as
an
engineer,
because
it's
the
only
way
I
build
anything.
E
The
only
way
that
that
kind
of
scale
of
change
happens
is
through
open
source.
Nowadays
it
just
just
is,
and
while
we
know
for
hyperledger
we're
potentially
like
upper
layer
from
where
hyperledger
has
been,
we
also
see
the
diversity
inside
of
hyperledger,
which
is
fantastic
to
diversity
of
people
of
backgrounds,
particularly
with
bessu.
Having
come
come
in
that
there's,
there
really
is
the
community
to
come
together
to
solve
the
hard
the
hard
problems.
E
So
it's
really
really
exciting
for
us
and
it's
new
for
us
to
be
part
of
something
that
could
only
could
only
be
successful
by
being
collaborative
and
being
big
in
a
way
that
open
source
can
do
that,
and
you
know
don't
want
to
have
a
to
grander
for,
but
we
we
do
think
that,
like
blockchain
tech
and
multibody
systems
needs
done
for
it.
What
kubernetes
did
for
docker
right
and
we
don't
know
what
piece
of
the
puzzle
firefly
fits
into,
but
we
know
we
want
to
be
a
part
of
that
community.
B
B
It
seemed
like
a
natural
place
from
from
the
timing
perspective
and
I
think,
if
you
look
at
other
new
emerging
technologies
like
ai,
you
know
there
were
fits
and
starts
for
decades
because
it
wasn't
consumable,
even
maybe
I'm
reflecting
now
seven
years
ago,
eight
years
ago,
you
know
if
you
went
to
some
large
major
I.t
vendors,
I'm
not
gonna
name
names
who
had
very
prominent
ai
offerings.
They
were
huge
services
engagements
it.
B
B
If
that
doesn't
appear
in
the
community
now,
I
think
just
the
adoption
would
stall
under
the
weight
of
all
these
projects,
where
people
have
spent
a
lot
of
money-
and
you
know
some
are
able
to
restart
and
do
you
know,
because
there's
so
much
business
value
and
they've
got
the
momentum,
but
it'd
be
a
shame
to
sort
of
clip
the
wings
of
all
this
innovation.
That's
needed.
B
B
And
governments-
and
it
boils
down
to
you-
know
our
healthcare
experience
of
looking
for
a
provider.
You
know
some
of
these
things
are
even
just
public
data,
but
the
way
companies
share
them.
We
can't
find
the
doctors
accepting
new
clients
in
network.
We
can't,
you
know,
get
an
appointment,
maybe
the
wrong
phone
number.
In
there
I
mean
there's
just
basic
problems
that
could
be
solved
tony.
I
know
you're
one
project
you
worked
on
and
this
was
during.
B
You
know
coven
and
you
know
march,
and
you
look
at
what
was
happening
in
new
york
last
year.
You
know
families
were
affected
by
someone
who
passed
away
what
they
didn't
know
if
they
had
life
insurance.
There
was
no
coordination
between
all
the
parties.
There's
no
master
death
record
in
the
us,
which
can
sound.
B
But
when
you
lose
a
loved
one
and
now
you
need
to
get
15
paper
copies
of
a
certificate
stamped
and
then
take
it
to
a
bank.
Take
it
to
your
funeral
home.
You
know,
spend
many
hours
with
insurance
companies.
You
know
it's
great
to
see.
Companies
want,
like
the
carriers,
want
to
solve
that
problem
and
tony
works
with
them
on
that.
So
we
want
the
technology
to
be
there
for
them
in
a
forum
where
they
can
really
move
fast
and
get
to
those
outcomes
to
help
people.
A
A
You
know
in
general,
insurance
companies
are
not
incentivized
to
share
information
with
other
insurance
companies.
So
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
was
great
about
that
use
case
is
the
ability
to
actually
build
an
infrastructure,
whether
it's
a
tokenized
infrastructure
through
some
other
incentives
that
you
know.
One
party
sharing
information
with
another
creates
value
for
both
parties
and
and
in
in
the
end.
F
D
Yeah,
you
know,
I
think
you
know
looking
looking
back
at
a
lot
of
the
times
when
we
saw
people
like
in
some
of
the
solutions
that
people
were
building
with.
Like
you
know,
fabric,
you
know,
for
example
right,
but
but
it
could
have
been,
you
know
any
kind
of
blockchain
right
and
then
and
then
sometimes
even
looking
at,
like
what
people
do
with
you
know,
corda,
sometimes
especially
right
more
like
because
it
was
more
like
sort
of
like
you
know,
peer-to-peer
right.
There
was
really
this
notion.
D
I
saw
where
people
people
really
conflated
what
I
would
call
like
workflow
with
like
like
interactive
workflow,
with
actual
like
consensus
protocols,
they're,
not
they're,
not
actually
the
same
thing
right.
Consensus
protocols
like
you
and
I
come
into
like
people
always
have
this
as
like
as
people
coming
to
agreement,
but
that's
not
really
it
right,
and
these
things
these
are
like
computerized
algorithms
that
determine
like.
D
You
know
agreement
about
a
state
right
that
are,
you
know,
based
on
you,
know
more
or
less
a
set
of
rules,
but
not
not
opinions
and
tasks
and
flowing
right,
and
we
used
to
people
used
to
show
it
in
like
fabric
they'd
say
like
you
know
we
have
endorsements
is
how
we
did
it
right.
I'm
getting
endorsement
from
these
people
that
wasn't
really
the
same
thing
as
like
approval
right
endorsement
was
just
checking
at
the
state
that
the
thing
executed
correctly
according
to
a
set
of
rules,
but
it's
not
really
not.
D
You
know
workflow
distributed
systems,
but
you
know
it
really
was
across
multiple
parties
right
and
if
you
look
at
most
workflow
stuff
right
there
built
for
the
intra
company
use
case,
and
can
you
if
you
take
another
step
back
right,
b2b
systems,
b2b
ecosystems
right
had
sharing
of
data
right.
So
you,
if
you
kind
of
break
it
down
right
the
only
things
that
really
share
data
per
se.
Right
I
mean
you
know
there
are
people
who
do
don't
get
me
wrong,
but
b2b
has
always
been
big
on
this
right.
D
You
share
edi
records
and
whatever
supply
chain,
etc.
But
it's
data
right.
I
have
my
system,
you
have
your
system.
We
just
agree
that
we're
using
you
know
this
x.12
or
this
edi
format
or
whatever
right
healthcare,
the
same
thing
with
hl7
or
whatever
the
systems
are
still
completely
different.
You
could
be
epic,
you
could
be
cerner,
but
hl7
was
flying
around
and
we
think
that
solved
data.
You
know
integration
problems
right,
it
didn't
right.
D
So
then
you
had
blockchain,
which
allowed
us
to
put
the
rules
around
that
and
give
me
a
shared
view
of
the
data
right.
That's
cool
and
synchronized,
and
things
like
that,
but
it
doesn't.
Let
me
mimic
the
actual
process
of
like
the
activities
that
actually
happen
in
in
a
step-by-step
kind
of
process
that
aren't
consensus,
protocol
driven
right,
and
I
think
that's
what
you
know.
D
We
were
looking
at
right
and
this
allows
you
to
break
things
down
whether
there's
50
people
involved
or
three
people
involved
right
or
you
could
have
an
ecosystem
of
50
people
and
sometimes
there's
only
three
parties
involved
right
in
something,
but
they
wanted.
The
whole
aggregate
is
actually
performing
sort
of
blockchaining
pieces
right
for
verification,
etc,
but
the
interaction
and
data
movement
was
there
and
we've
tried
to
like
overlay
all
that
stuff
in
fabric.
We
tried
to
do
it
with
like
private
data.
I
know
even
like
in
the
ethereum
stuff.
D
They
try
to
do
this
with
it's.
It's
a
force,
fit
right
of
something.
That's
not
that's,
not
the
right
way
to
solve
that
particular
problem.
So
I
think
that's
been
the
missing
element
right
and
then
I
think
if
you
can
model
so
if
you
want
to
solve
problems,
sort
of
to
answer
a
different
question,
but
that
was
asked
before
right.
I
think
there's
two
two
ways
to
advance
this
stuff,
because
you
can
solve
problems.
D
D
I
am
sure
that
we
can
find
some
plumbing
right
in
today's
stuff
that
can
make
the
blockchain
pieces
happen
or
or
not
it
could
be
a
centralized
database
if
that's
acceptable,
for
some
people
right
or
it
could
be
blockchain,
you
know
if
it's
not,
so
I
think
that's
the
piece
that's
been
missing
and
that's.
That
was
the
part
that
I
liked
about
firefly
right.
I
like
the
term,
I'm
not
a
buzzword-y
person,
but
I
think
you
know.
D
Multi-Party
systems
is
a
better
term
for
what
we're
trying
to
do
than
calling
them
like
anything,
calling
it
like
enterprise
blockchain
for
sure,
because
that's
just
too
you
know
broad
of
a
term
and-
and
I
guess
the
last
thing
I'd
say
is:
if
you
give
people
tooling,
that
allows
them
to
be
a
bit
above
the
tech
right.
It's
just
going
to
make
it
easier
for
them
to
get
started
and
maybe
apply
this
stuff
and
I'd
say.
D
One
thing
that
slows
things
down
is
that
people
create
architectures,
like
people
have
a
queue
of
problems
to
solve.
So
I'm
not
a
big
fan
of
enterprise
architecture.
I
should
put
that
out
there
right.
I
think
that's
why
enterprises
are
too
slow.
They
make
decisions
three
years
in
the
past
on
what
their
architecture
is
going
to
be
right.
D
So
if
you
really
want
to
have
it,
you
have
to
say
here's
the
problem
I
need
to
solve,
and
now
let
me
go
find
the
is
there
a
technology
today
if
I
was
making
the
decision
today
on
how
to
solve
this
problem,
would
it
be
the
same
way
that
I
thought
would
have
that?
I
mean
when
I
made
my
decision
three
years
ago
right
and
I
think
that
blockchain
becomes
more
palatable
if
people
can
actually
like
use
it
and
get
get
above.
The
bits
and
bytes
right
and
multi-party
systems
matches
that
much
better
than
having.
D
G
G
I
mean
it's,
it's
somewhat
similar
to
the
way
that,
in
in
the
linux
operating
system,
there's
always
been
debates
about
different
ways
of
doing
things,
and,
if
you
can,
you
know
all
the
way
up
to
like
what
windowing
environment,
to
use
and
and
really,
if
we
can
engineer
for
optionality
at
these
different
layers,
it's
why
the
focus
on
plugability
in
firefly
is
so
cool.
Then
we
can
have
the
best
of
both
worlds.
We
can
try
the
different
approaches
and
and
for
a
use
case,
figure
out
the
right
ones.
A
F
You
know
coming
from
our
clients,
our
banks,
financial
institutions
broker,
so
for
them
it's
a
mix
of
on
one
side.
You
know
they
want
to
do
d5.
They
want
to
get
licenses
to
open
an
exchange,
get
a
worker
business
going
for
crypto,
for
example,
and
then
on
the
other
side.
They've
got
all
those
problems
of
data
exchange
and
you
know
they're
building
consortium
and
they
want
to
have
private
change
to
do
certain
workflows,
and
so
from
our
perspective,
then
the
the
complexity
is
okay.
F
There's
these
various
technologies,
some
is
fabric,
some
it's
basis,
some
it's
quorum.
Some
is
public
network,
some
that
we're
building
now
are
going
to
be
like
layer,
2,
ethereum
solutions.
So
the
complexity
is
that
you
know
from
an
engineering
perspective.
Then
we
have
to
get
quite
far
into
the
understanding
of
the
underlying
technology,
and
you
know
sometimes
one
is
better
than
the
other,
but
it's
kind
of
like
you
know
digging
into
what's
difference
between
an
amd
cpu
and
an
intel
cpu.
F
F
Changer,
like
you,
said
to
have
this
kind
of
early
version
of
a
standard
interface
to
work
with
the
blockchain,
so
that
more
effort,
more
energy
can
go
on
actually
building
the
application
you
know
and
enabling
something
useful
for
the
business,
so
yeah,
I'm
sure
in
five
years
we're
gonna,
look
back
and
and
think
that
was
an
important
moment.
Yeah.
A
John,
what
what
about
like
a
digital
assets
or
a
token
perspective,
I
know
a
lot
of
your
your
focus
is-
is
is
really
around
taking
that
particular
powerful
construct
that
blockchain
brings
along
and
trying
to.
You
know
plumb
that
through
an
ecosystem,
you
know
how
how
how
challenging
is
it
to
really
build
collaborative
apps
with
the
token
for
a
set
of
enterprises
these
days
and
and
how
much.
C
Yeah,
it's
an
interesting
question.
When
you
say
token,
I
I
have
a
little
allergic
reaction
right
now.
I
think,
as
you
said
earlier,
sophia
we've
been
we've.
We
started
doing
coupons
and
rebates
using
nfts,
literally
erc,
721
nfts,
two
or
three
years
ago.
Now,
and
of
course,
now
all
the
phone
calls
we
made
over
those
last
two
or
three
years
to
people
saying
you
know
you
really
should
start
paying
attention
to
this
technology.
C
C
Tokenization
is
extremely
powerful.
We
see
it
generally.
We
see
tokens
as
a
great
way
to
incentivize
behavior
right.
So
coupon
is
a
great
example
of
you
know.
A
a
a
discrete
fixed
digital
object
that
can
be
used
by
a
brand
to
incentivize
behavior
in
the
customer
or
at
the
other
end
of
the
farm-to-fork
chain
could
be
used
to
in,
in
other
words,
data
about
the
conditions
that
he
finds
locally
in
his
working
area.
So
we
think
that
that
stuff,
like
that
tokenization
like
that
to
encourage
data
sharing
or
sustainability,
is
really
important.
C
I
don't
have
any
good
answers
for
how
to
fix
it.
I
just
know
these
are
the
these.
Are
the
narratives
that
we're
constructing
now,
as
we
talk
to
potential
partners
and
and
are
trying
to
encourage
people
to
operate,
notes
like
we
want
you
to
be
responsible
for
making
sure
that,
as
we
have
tokenized
value
flowing
through
our
system
to
incentivize
behaviors
and
to
do
instantaneous
settlement
that
you're
a
responsible
shepherd
right.
That's
the
hardest
part.
A
Expect
abstraction
right,
you
guys,
with
wrist
stream,
you've
been
thinking
about
really
building
an
industry
platform.
Yep
right
you've
been
on
this
journey.
What
what?
What
does
it
mean
for
for
you
building
it
a
platform
that
ambitious
to
take
a
bunch
of
the
plumbing
problem
off
of
the
table,
for
you
to
focus
maybe
focus
on
some
some
other
things,
and
the
second
part
of
the
question
is
on
maybe
the
multi-protocol
side.
A
How
do
you
think
about
different
protocols
and
how
valuable
would
you
know
having
some
amount
of
flexibility,
be
there
with
maybe
a
common
api
sitting?
On
top
of
that
great
question
steve,
I
can
say
that
our
relationship
with
collido
and
and
now
with
the
the
firefly
platform,
has
been
kind
of
a
game
changer
for
a
stream.
A
We
were
able
to
do
in
six
months,
but
it
took
us
kind
of
two
years
to
do
through
other
methods
through
consulting
and
kind
of
building
things
in
a
custom
way,
and
I
think
that
one
of
the
things
that
we're
finding
over
and
over
again
is
not
only
is
that
speed
to
market
really
important
for
us.
As
you
know,
the
the
cycle
for
insurance
companies
is
is
a
little
bit
different
or
maybe
a
little
bit
different
than
in
other
areas.
A
Where
there's
this
underlying
mistrust
of
anything
new
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
they
kind
of
see
and
it
works.
And
it's
like
all
right.
We
want
it
now,
so
that
allows
us
to
kind
of
move
at
a
maybe
not
a
a
slow
and
steady
pace,
but
we
can
kind
of
move
in
kind
of
leaps
and
bounds
when
it
comes
to
that,
and
you
know,
given
the
fact
that
you
know
in
the
insurance
industry
since
since
technology
is
a
bit
of
a
dirty
word.
But
but
a
word,
that's
necessary.
A
You
know
having
the
ability
to
kind
of
do
things
through
the
the
flat,
the
firefly
platform
and
kind
of
using
that
to
build
we're
building
with
canopy.
It
allows
us
to
actually
focus,
as
you
said,
on
the
business
problem,
and
you
know
where
blockchain
developers
are
kind
of
scarce
resources
or
scarce
resource
with
many
of
the
custom
customers
that
we
deal
with,
you
know
being
able
to
kind
of
use
resources
that
one
would
use
to
develop.
A
Any
other
technology,
or
any
other
application
and
kind
of
leverage,
the
apis
that
you
guys
put
out.
There
makes
the
whole
blockchain
process
a
heck
of
a
lot
more
accessible
to
our
members
than
it
traditionally
would
have
been.
You
know
before
I
know
there
was
a
second
part
to
that
question.
I'm
trying
to
remember
what
the
protocol
yes.
C
A
Know
one
of
the
things
that's
really
interesting
and
and
certainly
being
a
not
for
profit.
It's
one
of
the
challenges
that
we
face
is
that
you
know
we
always
have
to
make
critical
decisions
on.
You
know
where
we
spend
our
time
where
we
spend
our
money
and
and
what
protocol
or
what
technology
is
fit
for
purpose.
D
A
B
There
I
think
people
always
would
have
wanted
that,
but
now
that
it's
available,
certainly
they
see
that
as
a
big
differentiator
they
could
offer
to
their
the
ecosystems
they're,
putting
together
in
their
respective
industry.
So
you
know
tony's
doing
it
for
property,
casualty,
life
and
annuity
reinsurance
and
we
have
others
in
healthcare
and
other
domains.
Yeah
multi-protocol
is
really
important
to
them.
It's
interesting.
I
I
think
it
gets
to
a
comment
earlier,
a
lot
of
times.
B
People
focus
too
much
on
the
tech
decisions,
and
I
think
something
else
tony
said
just
now
is
really
interesting:
they
don't
they
don't
when
they
see
it,
they
want
it.
So
we've
seen
a
lot
of
that.
Where
people
don't
really
understand,
you
know,
guarantee
your
point:
enterprise,
blockchain
versus
multi-party
system
or
what
a
decentralized
app
really
entails,
and
sometimes
we
even
hear
you
know
they
don't
even
care
about
the
ui
or
app
they're.
Just
you
know
not.
B
They
just
want
to
focus
on
the
plumbing,
but
the
minute
they
actually
see
it
come
to
life
and
they
see
it
on
the
glass
and
it
looks
like
a
real.
You
know
real,
a
real
product.
Then
all
you
know
everyone
wants
to
use
it
and
what
you
know
wiring
production
yesterday,
and
they
want
to
onboard
you
know
all
their
friends
and
family
in
the
industry.
B
It's
just
amazing,
seeing
the
acceleration
that
could
happen
when
you
actually
get
to
where
the
people
who
you
know
they're
operating
huge
sets
of
call
centers
in
one
use
case
that
just
you
know,
calling
on
making
sure
the
date
is
accurate.
You
know
they
want
to
arm
all
these
people
use
this
new
app
on
the
new.
You
know
multi-party
system,
but
you
need
to
get
to
that
stage
to
then
get
the
buy-in
and
acceleration.
I
think
that
you've
seen
tony
we've
seen
that
in
other
places
too.
B
E
E
I
think
interoperability
between
development
communities,
the
ability
to
build
solutions
that
can
be
more
of
an
app
store
model
where
your
application
can
work
in
multiple
communities.
I
think,
is
a
different
way
to
scale
this.
This
great
fan
that
the
blockchain
has,
I
think,
that's
really
exciting.
A
G
Yeah,
well,
you
know
an
observation
from
25
years
of
this
is
that
you
know:
building
a
successful
open
source
project
is
a
lot
different
from
building
a
successful
commercial
product
and,
and
you
have
to
think
about
them
very
differently,
and
that
means
you
know
kind
of
designing.
For
I
know
it's
it's
a
trope
designing
for
inclusion,
designing,
for
you
know
that
that
first
user
experience
and
making
sure
is
they're
coming
in
and
getting
used
to
how
to
use
the
code.
G
You
know
the
beginner
questions
pretty
quickly
or
pointing
to
an
faq
answering
the
deeper
questions
very
publicly,
even
when
they
are
kind
of
thorny
and
then
always
having
a
parking
place
for
new
ideas
about
what
what's
next,
so
that,
even
if
the
team
that's
been
on,
it
can't
get
to
adding
a
certain
feature
or
integrating
with
another
ledger
or
others.
There's
always
a
place
to
direct
people,
so
that
that
that
energy,
you
know,
isn't
dissipated
because
once
dissipated,
it's
it's
hard
to
bring
it
back.
C
You
know
like
ourselves
to
advance
these
initiatives,
but
we're
not
doing
a
very
good
job
of
of
educating
the
public
at
large
all
say
about
about
blockchain
technology,
we're
sort,
we've
sort
of
relegated
that
to
mainstream
media.
I
don't
think
they're
doing
a
very
good
job,
and
so
anything
we
can
do
maybe
not
at
parties,
but
in
terms
of
making
ourselves
available
to
talk,
you
know
more
intelligently
or
help
to
improve
the
narrative
you
know
kind
of
in
the
in
the
you
know
the
wider
culturally
in
the
wider
community.
F
But
thanks
thanks
a
lot
for
giving
me
the
chance
to
japan.
I
really
appreciate
it
and
yeah.
You
know
just
to
echo
on
what
john
was
saying
you
know
to
take
away
from
me
is
that
you
know
we're
gonna
go
back
in
our
community
here
in
southeast
asia,
in
our
monthly
meetups,
and
you
know
all
the
meetings
that
we
do
and
basically
try
to
share
the
vision
of
we
want
to
get
to
a
world
where
there
is
thousands
of
blockchain
tens
of
thousands
of
consortium.
You
know
and
thousands
of
those
shared
computers
running.
F
If
we
want
to
build
that,
like
we're
sharing,
we
need
a
community
of
people
who
know
how
to
use
a
certain
number
of
tools.
We
know
those
open
source
software
and
if
we
do
all
of
that,
like
peter
was
sharing
that
was
sharing.
You
know
we
can
then
start
to
scale
blockchain,
and
I
just
want
to
finish
with
a
simple
example:
I
have
a
friend
who's
got
a
factory,
and
yesterday
he
called
me
and
he
said:
hey.
I
have
this
3d
drawing
I'm
going
to
send
it
to
the
supplier,
I'm
a
bit
worried.
F
They
might
take
it
and
make
a
copy
of
it.
Can
I
do
anything
and
I
was
on
the
phone
with
him,
and
I
told
him,
no,
you
can't
I
mean
technically
yeah
there's
you
know
some
irm
solutions
and
you
know
if
you
spend
money,
you're
gonna
set
it
up,
but
practically
you
cannot
today
right
now,
and
this
is
insane
like
when
we
have
this
technology
now
like
blockchain,
where
you
can
do
very
secure
proof
of
ownership
using
tokens,
cryptographically,
secure
methods
of
exchanging
value.
D
Yeah
so
first
thing
I
know
this
is
this
is
been
fun
good,
to
see
everybody
again
and
meet
some
some
new
faces.
I
guess
my
my
deep
thought
for
the
day
would
be
I
I
like
in
you
know
I
did
iot
like
in,
like
I
don't
know,
2012
2013
right,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
hype
around
it
right,
like
25
billion
devices
and
whatever
this
huge
curve
very
similar
to
actually
blockchain
and
enterprise
blockchain.
D
If
you
think
about
it,
and
actually
it
had
the
same,
you
know
didn't
quite
take
off
as
much
as
we
might
have
thought
at
the
time
right
like
there
was
just
too
much
talk
about
the
tech
and
all
this
other
stuff.
Now,
actually
iot
is
everywhere.
We
don't
talk
about
it
that
much,
but
it's
actually
pervaded
everybody's
lives
and
it's
used
by
major
corporations.
D
Ledger
side
is
when
we
stop
talking
about
blockchain,
that's
when
we
have
success
right,
and
I
think
that
the
way
you
do
that
is
you
to
these
points
here.
Is
you
solve
problems?
So
tools
like
firefly,
I
think,
go
up
up
above
that
level.
Right
you're,
actually
solving
a
problem
showing
people
how
they
can
solve
a
distributed
industry
problem
moving
stuff
around
then
you
layer
that,
on
top
of
whatever
the
appropriate
underlying
technology
is,
but
again
you
started
with
the
end,
not
the
means
right
to
date.
D
A
lot
of
people
have
been
about
the
means
and
not
the
end.
So
I
think
that's
why
you
know
things
like
fire
that
made
sense
in
my
head.
I'm
sure
I
love
more
since
if
I
play
the
recording
back
but
anyway,
so
that's
why
I
think
you
know
firefly
is
well
positioned
in
here.
So
thanks
for
including
me,
tony.
A
Sure
thanks
this
was
awesome,
really
exciting
thing
to
talk
to
y'all,
I'm
just
amplifying
one
thing
that
john
said:
I
would
extend
education
to
the
business
users
as
well.
I
can
tell
you
it's
a
challenge
that
we
face
every
every
day
and
again
once
they
kind
of
understand
it
and
they
feel
comfortable
with
it.
They
want
to
move
forward
and
then
the
second
thing
to
amplify
something
that
gary
said
is
is
accessibility.
A
One
of
the
things
that's
critical
for
the
insurance
industry
is
to
be
able
to
pull
together
all
the
different
channels
and
all
the
different
data
sources
that
are
out
there
and
using
tools
like
firefly
to
actually
make
that
easier
and
make
that
simpler
and
take
a
lot
of
the
the
worry
and
the
administrative
burden.
Out
of
doing
that.
Really
positions,
awesome
positions,
our
industry
for
really
good
continued
success
going
forward.
So
thanks,
everybody
sophia,
bring
us
home.
B
Yeah
well
we're
coming
out
of
the
dark
ages
point
just
a
once-in-a-generation
shift,
as
people
are
digitally,
transforming
moving
to
the
cloud.
We've
got
a
set
of
technologies
for
the
first
time.
It
goes
all
the
way
back
into
the
system
of
record.
So
it's
really
it's
really
exciting
times.
I
think
guillaume
also
said
five
years
from
now.
We'll
look
back
at
this,
so
I
hope
all
of
us,
eight
of
us
get
back
on
a
panel
in
five
years
and
we
could
we
could
be
reflecting,
but
thanks.
A
A
Well,
thank
you
to
all
the
panelists.
It's
been
a
lot
of
fun
quarterbacking
this
and
lots
of
good
input
and
and
insight
and
wisdom.
So
we,
I
know
everyone
on
this
panel
is,
is
wishing
that
the
firefly
community,
you
know
a
happy
launch
and
a
continued
success,
and
so
with
with
these
sorts
of
stakeholders
and
interested
parties,
we
are
very
optimistic
about
that
path.
Ahead,
transitioning
to
the
agenda
here,
we've
just
got
one
more
hour
of
the
launch
day
to
go.