►
From YouTube: Hosted Discussion: Rhode Island Leads on Digital Identity Solutions with H... Liz Tanner & Jim Mason
Description
Hosted Discussion: Rhode Island Leads on Digital Identity Solutions with Hyperledger - Liz Tanner, State of Rhode Island & Jim Mason, DTCC
The smallest state in the US has become a leader in digital transformation in government under the leadership of Liz Tanner, Director, Dept. of Business Regulation. She has led the transformation for Digital Identity and Credentials in the state. Her department manages all the licenses and credentials for businesses and individuals. That covers accounting, restaurants, banking and all other types of businesses and professionals operating in the state. Leveraging Hyperledger Indy and Aries, Liz has delivered an MVP solution to issue SSI ( Self-Sovereign Identities ) to individuals and organizations using digital wallets. Licenses issued are credentials that a party can choose to share with others to validate their identity or credentials. Liz will cover Rhode Island’s digital transformation journey: how they got here, the opportunities they are focused on, the challenges they’ve identified and the forward strategies they use to deliver identity and digital solutions for digital government.
Sessions Details & Slides (if available): https://sched.co/14H6e
Access All Sessions: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/hyperledger-global-forum/program/schedule/
----
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
A
A
But
it's
been
fascinating
to
me
to
be
in
all
the
sessions
today
that
are
very
much
focused
on
Wolf.
We
could
all
get
the
government
to
do
more
and
so
I'm
gonna
I'm
gonna,
give
you
the
Insight
of
why
we
don't
do
more,
but
also
to
give
you
some
pointers
on
what
what
would
be
helpful
to
us
when
people
are
trying
to
sell
things
to
us,
or
at
least
present
Solutions.
A
That
I
have
very
much
tried
to
model
in
in
an
American
way
to
bring
things
and
Jim.
If
you
want
to
flip
to
the
next
slide
sure
you
don't
have
a
lot
of
time.
So
we'll
talk
about
it
all
later,
he's
The,
Tech,
Guy,
so
he's
who
he
is,
who
we've
hired
to
do
our
project?
Our
project
has
ended
and
he's
now
very
busy
doing
lots
of
other
things.
Jim.
You
want
to
just
give
a
quick
highlight.
B
Of
your
right
yeah,
so
my
background,
I'm,
a
DLT
architect
today
at
dtcc,
working
on
what
I
call
refinance
where
we're
we're
reimagining,
how
Finance
works
in
the
I'll
call
it
a
new
technology
era
and,
of
course,
I'm
part
of
hyperledger
hyperledger
project,
public
sector
group
leader
in
that
and
work
on
a
bunch
of
other
things.
I
have
a
long
history
that
I
don't
care
about
and
you
shouldn't
either
so
we're.
A
Done
with
that
between
now
and
the
Guinness,
so
so,
how
do
we
get
here?
So,
like
I
said
it
was
my
job
to
try
to
make
it
easier
to
do
business.
We
discovered
the
European
models
and
said:
oh
somebody
is
actually
doing
this.
Better
I
have
been
very
much
focused
on
the
Estonian
model.
That
has
been
my
my
guide
that
I
have
looked
at
I'm
actually
going
next
month
to
get
a
one-on-one
session
with
them.
I'm
very
excited
about
it,
but
we
what
we
finally
did
was
to
say.
A
Okay,
what
do
we
want
to
do
so?
We
put
out
a
RFP
request
for
proposals
to
do
a
proof
of
concept
to
introduce
blockchain
technology
to
government,
and
this
was
back
in
2018-19.
We
received
over
60
ideas
from
over
30
companies,
unprecedented
number
of
responses
for
for
our
state,
and
we
vetted
it
down
essentially
to
one
company,
and
we
worked
with
emphasis
who
worked
with
us
on
what
ultimately
ended
up
being
a
credentialing
project.
A
So
what
I'd
like
to
try
to
show
you
is
is
what
that
project
looked
like,
but
as
far
as
many
governments
who
have
asked
me,
where
do
you
start?
Where
do
you
begin
the
person?
The
answer
is
the
person
who
has
the
most
enthusiasm
for
it
because
you're
not
going
to
get
anybody
to
do
it
if
they
don't
want
to
do
it.
A
What
we
did
here
was
our
traditional
identity
was
to
start
with
Emily,
who
has
to
submit
documents
to
prove
her
identity
at
the
Department
of
Motor
Vehicles
for
her
driver's
license.
She
then
sort
of
registers
herself
to
apply
for
the
license
has
to
show
her
proof
of
identification,
makes
her
way
down
to
filling
out
all
sorts
of
other
pieces
of
paperwork
to
prove
that
she
can
be
an
accountant,
that's
what
we
chose
to
do
and
ultimately
it
does
get
her
license.
But
by
creating
the
self-sovereign
identity
model,
it's
a
far
more
streamlined
approach.
A
One
of
the
questions
I
get
is:
why
did
you
choose
accountants,
so
United
States
accountants,
while
they
are
licensed
in
every
state
for
the
most
part,
when
you're
a
good
in
one
state,
you're
good
in
all
50
states?
And
so
when
you
do
taxes
in
other
states,
you
constantly
have
to
prove
your
credential,
and
so
it
was
really
important
for
them
to
be
able
to
have
a
way
to
show
their
credential.
A
So
we
are
actually
working
with
the
National
Association
that
oversees
CPA
credentials
called
nasba
and
they're
very
interested,
because
what
they
would
love
to
do
is
use
this
as
a
model
in
all
50
states,
so
that
all
CPAs
can
now
use
this
as
a
credential.
I
will
also
say
from
what.
How
can
you
start
this
project?
Why
did
we
choose
CPA
credentials
because
that's
just
about
as
boring
as
it
can
get?
We
didn't
want
to
do
anything.
That's
right.
A
We
do
love,
CPAs,
I'm,
a
lawyer
right
so
I'm
here
with
you,
but
we
purposely
chose
something
that
was
really
boring
because
we
wanted
to
show
success.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that's
going
on
in
the
world
right
now
is
governments
Can't
Fail.
They
constantly
are
being
kind
of
dinged
for
doing
something
wrong
or
wasting
taxpayer
dollars.
A
So
we
started
something
very
safe,
very
secure,
very
simple,
because
we
wanted
to
be
able
to
prove
it
and
make
sure
that
people
could
start
to
get
on
board
with
it
because
anytime
we
use
the
word
blockchain,
which
I
almost
never
use
anymore.
People
got
nervous,
you
know
when
you
say
blockchain
in
government.
All
they
know
about
is
the
guy
who
lost
a
million
dollars
because
they
lost
his
password.
That's
all
that
I
hear
over
and
over
and
over
again,
so
we
purposely
said
all
right:
we're
going
to
try
to
talk
about
digital
government.
A
B
C
Residents
and
businesses
need
to
produce
these
credentials
to
do
business
in
and
access
various
services
offered
by
the
state,
whether
applying
for
a
professional
or
business
license
applying
for
a
driver's
license
or
when
documents
need
to
be
requested
from
different
departments.
Repeating
the
same
process
is
costly
for
the
state
and
time
consuming
for
the
applicant.
However,
there
is
an
easier
way:
let's
consider
Emily's
scenario.
She
works
in
an
accounting
firm
and
wants
to
get
her
CPA
license
for
this.
C
She
needs
to
get
her
educational
credentials,
CPA
exam
results,
work,
experience
and
identity,
verified
Emily
visits
the
DMV
to
get
her
driver's
license,
which
verifies
her
identity
and
residency.
She
then
submits
all
the
documents
and
ID
proofs
to
the
Department
of
Business
regulation
for
verification.
C
Her
employer
also
needs
to
verify
these
credentials
and
every
time
she
interacts
with
the
government,
she
has
to
repeat
this
process.
Emily
wishes
that
multiple
departments
could
collaborate
to
provide
services
more
reliably
and
simply
and
that
she
could
have
more
visibility
over
the
information.
Being
shared
with
these
different
departments,
this
collaboration
is
possible
if
government
departments
and
other
institutions
establish
an
identity,
blockchain
Network
to
digitize
and
automate
workflows
and
exchange
relevant
information
in
a
secure
manner.
C
The
state
of
Rhode
Island,
along
with
its
digital
transformation
partner,
Infosys
Public
Services,
has
developed
a
blockchain-powered
citizen-centric
ecosystem
where
digital
identities
can
be
created
and
shared.
The
ecosystem
will
enable
State
departments
to
provide
services
in
a
seamless,
transparent
and
fully
secure
manner.
A
So
because
that
worked,
I
get
to
skip
a
couple
of
slides
because
I
didn't
know.
If
that
video
was
going
to
work
or
not.
But
one
of
the
important
things
that
happened
for
us
was
to
be
able
to
create
that
Hub
and
smoke
Approach
at
the
end.
So
we
proved
that
it
could
work
and
Jim's
going
to
go
through
some
of
the
technical
parts
of
it.
A
Whether
it's
get
a
fishing
license
from
the
environmental
Department
get
a
restaurant
license
from
our
department
of
health,
their
CPA
license
or
their
engineer
or
their
real
estate
license
and
build
it
and
grow
it.
We
also
want
to
try
to
start
to
be
able
to
register
a
business
in
one
place.
Every
state
in
America
wants
to
be
able
to
have
a
One-Stop
shop,
and
so
that's,
ultimately,
what
we're
trying
to
create.
B
Okay-
okay,
so
here
you
can
hear
me
okay,
this
was
the
use
case
again
that
Liz
just
covered
and
the
video
did
about
the
CPA
license
and
we're
just
showing,
in
a
sense
the
journey
that
the
user
had
through
the
Department
of
Business
regulation
to
issue
and
verify
an
identity
credentials.
Rather
in
a
DVR
after
you
had
your
identity
issued
by
DMV
or
Secretary
of
State,
and
then
the
whole
point
is
once
you
had
your
credentials
public,
any
public
user
that
you
wanted
to
share
with
could
could
validate
your
credentials
were
accurate.
B
So
that's
a
summary.
There
part
two
of
The
Journey.
If
you
look
at
the
sequence
of
what
happened,
if
you
looked
as
an
individual,
you
want
to
be
a
CPA
Again.
The
video
showed
this,
but
the
DMV
will
issue
you
a
state
ID
card.
If
you
check
that
option
that
we
added
to
their
registration
process,
the
ID
got
stored
in
the
user's
wallet
you
saw
in
the
video,
you
would
then
apply
for
the
CPA
license.
B
Then
Department
of
Business
regulation
would
request
validation
of
the
applicant's
identity,
but
that
would
happen
automatically
because
all
you
had
to
do
is
consent
to
that.
So
you
approved
the
verification
request.
So
the
nice
part
about
this
system
is,
you
are
in
control
of
who
gets
your
credentials
and
your
identity
that
isn't
automated.
You
have
to
decide
as
the
individual.
You
want
to
share
the
stuff
which
is
really
nice.
B
So
then
business
regulation
can
independently
verify
the
identity
identity
card
because
it
for
your
request
because
it
came
from
DMV,
so
that's
automatic,
given
that
you
prove
the
request
to
share
it
and
then,
after
via
verify
application,
the
DVR
would
issue
you
the
CPA
license
say
you
had
all
the
right
credentials.
Here's
your
license
that
license
credential
goes
into
your
user
wallet
and
then,
after
that,
anybody
can
search
through
the
portal
to
check
the
fact
that
your
license
your
registered
accountant
in
the
state
of
Rhode
Island.
B
So
whether
you're,
an
accountant,
a
lawyer
or
anything
else,
having
a
public
registry
available
to
check
is
important
to
you.
And
so
the
idea
is
she
said
earlier.
Was
that
it's
not
just
within
Rhode
Island,
outside
of
Rhode
Island,
everybody
could
start
using
this
form
of
digital
identity
and
credential
verification,
and
really
the
the
other
side
as
a
individual
or
a
firm,
too
is
the
idea
that
there's
consent
management
formally
happening
all
the
way
through
the
process.
A
B
Yeah
I
agree,
so
that
said,
oh
look.
We
Liz
already
summarized
this
so
I'm
not
going
to
repeat
this
part
on
the
blockchain
project,
so
we'll
talk
about
just
the
basic
flow
of
how
it
actually
happened
at
the
DMV.
So
what
we
did
is
modify
the
DMB
registration
process
to
say,
okay
step,
one.
The
way
this
system
worked,
we
got
from
the
DMP
because
you
checked
the
box.
That
says
yes
give
me
a
digital
identity.
We
got
a
data
file
from
them
automatically
in
Json
format
that
came
into
this
process
flow.
B
So
we
created
a
wallet
for
you,
created
an
identity
as
well
that
we
put
in
the
wallet
store
that
in
the
wallet
and
then
actually
took
your
identity
and
stored.
It
in
a
state.
Credential
registry
then
verified
access
to
everything
and
then
ended
with,
in
a
sense,
an
output
response.
That
said,
okay,
look.
We
just
actually
made
all
those
registrations
happen
and
they
all
actually
work.
This
I
won't
go
through
to
explain
it
except
to
say
the
simple
concept
is.
This
is
the
trust
over
IP
model
that
shows
you
the
concept,
there's
an
issuer.
B
In
this
case,
the
legal
issuers,
the
state
of
Rhode
Island,
the
holder,
was
Emily,
who
wanted
a
CPA
license
and
an
identity,
and
then
the
verifier
would
have
been
an
employer
that
wanted
to
hire
her
right,
and
so
the
fun
part
is
the
verifier
says,
prove
you
are
a
CPA
in
the
state
of
Rhode
Island.
So
obviously
she
approved
the
request
to
share
her
credential,
which
got
approved.
The
bigger
thing
is:
does
that
CPA
firm
trust,
the
state
of
Rhode
Island
as
an
issuer,
so
there's
a
trust
relationship
there.
B
They
said
okay,
because
that
credential
was
signed
by
the
Department
of
Business
regulation,
State
of
Rhode
Island,
we're
going
to
trust
that
she's
a
real
CPA
and
that
they
did
the
due
diligence
to
verify
that
so
in
the
whole
part
of
I'll
call
it
the
trust
over
IP
model
with
self-sovereign
identity.
Is
that
there's
also
governance
right?
So
that's
the
other
side
of
this
equation
that
says:
here's
a
firm
relying
on
the
fact
she's
a
CPA.
B
Do
they
trust
in
this
case,
it's
a
government
service,
that's
legally
entitled
to
issue
credentials,
so
they
did.
But
how
do
they
know
automatically?
How
does
that
firm
know
automatically
that
they're
legally
entitled?
Why?
Because
there
is
in
this
registry
on
the
blockchain,
they
can
identify
that
that
is
actually
the
legal
entity
that
signed
it
properly
right.
They
have
a
public
key
out
there,
so
they
know
that
and
then,
if
they
have
any
questions,
they
say.
Yes,
if
you
want
to
go,
look
it
up.
B
The
laws
say:
the
state
of
Rhode
Island
is
entitled
to
make
those
legal
contracts,
and
so
then,
if
you
look
how
we
did
it
in
hyperledger,
I
won't
go
through
that,
except
to
say
it.
Obviously
you
know
Indie
Aries
and
Ursa,
or
this
plane
stack.
What
doesn't
show
on
the
slide
here
is
that
the
emphasis
team
was
smart
enough
to
say.
Oh
look,
there's
more
here,
we'll
go
steal
the
virtual
organizations
Network
that
Stephen
and
the
rest
of
the
team
built
for
British
Columbia.
B
B
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
that
again,
but
you
can
just
see
the
one
thing
the
diagram
shows
is
the
blockchain
is
where
everything
got
recorded
on
the
bottom
side
right,
so
all
of
the
in
a
sense
whatever
was
recorded
and
registered
as
identities
and
credentials.
There
was
a
copy
that
was
out
here
and
including
the
public
key
for
the
state
as
an
issuer,
so
any
verifier
is
going
to
say
yes,
I
can
now
verify
that
the
state
actually
did
issue
that
credential,
which
was
a
big
deal.
B
B
Yeah
the
thing
is,
we
never
even
came
close
to
hitting
a
volume
limit,
in
fact,
actually
I
cheated
once
again,
I'm
a
smart
guy,
smart
guys,
don't
bother
actually
doing
the
work
they
cheat,
and
so
the
smart
thing
was
say
well,
Rhoda
Liz
said
Rhode
Island's
a
small
state,
so
we
have
a
million
residents.
We
had
about
750
000
corporate
registrations,
so
the
smart
guy
says:
okay,
let's
call
British
Columbia.
Oh
look.
They
built
this
thing.
What
do
they
run
and
I
looked
at
it
and
I
think
at
the
time
I
talked
to
them.
B
Like
I,
don't
know
14
million
credentials
in
their
Enterprise
registry,
and
then
they
told
me
that
they
had
shared
it
and
Ontario
had
picked
up
the
same
thing
and
Ontario
was
bigger,
so
I
called
them
and
they
said
they
had
like
27
million
credentials
in
their
Registries.
They
said:
okay,
Rhode
Island
is
good
for
the
next
10
years,
we're
not
going
to
run
out
of
space
using
the
same
technology,
so
it'll
work
for
us.
That
was
my
cheat
way
of
answering
a
tough
question.
So.
A
And
we're
very
grateful
to
all
of
these
other
governments,
I
think
Jim
and
I
have
talked
to
all
of
them
across
the
globe,
those
that
speak
English,
that's
for
sure
to
ask
them
and
it's
funny,
because
we
do
share
a
lot
of
these
pains
and
I'm
talking
very
often
to
CIO,
folks
of
which
I
am
not,
but
I
think
it's
really
useful
to
understand.
If,
if
you
want
to
work
with
those
like
what
works,
how
does
it?
How
does
this
actually
go
so
very
important
for
us
is
leadership
from
the
top.
A
You
know
so
I
had
this
idea.
This
crazy
idea
just
use
this
technology
that
nobody
heard
of
I
got
into
the
space
about
2016-17
more
from
a
space
of
I
regulated
crypto
as
the
in
my
department
I,
oversaw
financial
services.
So
we
did
a
lot
to
make
crypto
easier
to
to
happen
in
the
state
of
Rhode,
Island
and
Gina
raimondo
who's.
Again
now
the
Commerce
Secretary
said
to
me:
Liz
you're,
the
blockchain
expert
for
the
state,
which
was
hysterical
right
because
he's
like
here
I
am
now
I'm
charged
of
all
things
blockchain.
A
So
I
came
up
with
this
idea
and
she
said:
let's
do
it,
let's,
let's
do
it
if
you
don't
have
leadership
from
the
top.
It's
never
going
to
happen.
So
whatever
your
top
is
is
is
is
absolutely
critical.
So,
even
if
you
have
somebody
who's
super
enthusiastic,
if
you
don't
have
people
supporting
that
person
at
a
higher
level,
it's
never
going
to
work.
A
For
me,
it
was
also
about
getting
everyone
in
the
room
trying
to
make
sure
that
I
had
acknowledged
everyone
who
touched
the
space
rather
than
trying
to
force
something
upon
the
Department
of
Motor
Vehicles
I
had
to
really
sit
with
them.
Explain
to
them.
This
is
what
we're
going
to
do.
You're
not
going
to
lose
any
information
you're
not
going
to
end
up
on
the
front
page
of
the
newspaper
for
something
going
wrong.
You
know
we
have
to
really
take
your
time
to
make
everyone
feel
comfortable
with
the
technology.
A
A
If
we
failed
in
any
way
wouldn't
be
the
end
of
the
world,
we
could
go
back
to
paper
if
we
absolutely
had
to
for
whatever
circumstance,
but
as
we
move
on
now
now
we're
trying
to
find
problems
to
solve,
and
one
of
the
important
things
for
me
now
is
trying
to
get
people
on
on
board
so
that
I
can
get
this
adopted
much
faster
than
just
me,
trying
to
push
it
in
one
government.
So
we've
been
spending
a
lot
of
time.
Saying:
okay,
who's
got
problems
that
we
think
that
this
can
solve.
A
Great
example,
for
us
is
the
unemployment
fraud
that
happened
during
covid.
We
lost
a
half
a
billion
dollars
to
people
pretending
to
be
somebody
else
if
they
had
to.
If
we
had
an
identity
solution,
we
would
have
been
able
to
see
save
a
half
a
billion
dollars
that
sure
gets
people's
attention
right.
So
that's
that's!
What
we
try
to
focus
on
is
the
actual
problems
you
can
solve.
A
There's
some
really
cool
things
you
can
do,
but
it's
it's
not
going
to
actually
solve
a
problem
in
government,
it's
all
about
how
much
money
you're
spending
and
how
much
time
you're
saving
and
if
you're
not
doing
one
of
those
two
things.
It's
probably
not
going
to
get
very
far
getting
external
experts
and
internal
supporters.
I
talked
about
the
internal
supporters,
but
the
external
experts.
You
know
having
someone
like
Jim
and
our
emphasis
team
and
others
who
really
explained
things
to
us
and
you'll,
see
on
the
next
slide.
A
How
I
I
think
I
feel
like
I,
taught
a
lot
to
a
lot
of
our
external
partners,
because
when
we
received
those
60
ideas
from
30
different
vendors,
I
can't
tell
you
how
confusing
all
of
those
proposals
were
for
us
and
I'll
explain
that
in
a
second
setting,
an
expectation
of
no
no.
We
are
going
to
do
this
right
because
I
think
a
lot
of
people
thought
oh,
this
will
just
go
away
after
a
while
it's
some
technology
that
nobody's
going
to
care
about
in
a
couple
years.
A
If
anything
covet
brought
it
far
more
to
the
Forefront
of
what
the
possibilities
are
absolutely
doing
it
and
then
sharing
the
success,
you
know
one
thing
that
we
have
failed
on
is:
we
have
not
promoted
it.
It's
fascinating
to
me
to
hear
all
the
folks
getting
all
this
great
credit
which
they
certainly
deserve
because
again
they've
helped
me
as
As
Leaders,
but
we
have
not
shared
our
success.
We
were
way
too
bogged
down
and
coveted.
A
Now
we're
really
hoping
to
try
to
make
that,
because
again,
that
will
get
the
politicians
who
are
going
to
be
able
to
fund
our
project
if
they
can
get
some
Face
Time
on
TV
or
whatever
for
doing
you
know,
sharing
the
success
of
the
project,
then
I'm
going
to
be
able
to
get
some
more
money,
so
I
have
to
always
be
mindful
of
that
too,
and
then
you
know
it
opportunities
with
government.
So
again,
when
I
read
those
60
plus
proposals
from
30
different
vendors,
I
barely
understood
any
of
it.
A
I
would
consider
you
know
telling
me
what
it
actually
does
right
like
you
know.
Sometimes
these
proposals
that
that
come
in
it's
so
big
and
fluffy,
and
it's
like
that's
great,
but
how
is
it
going
to
affect
Susie
Jones
at
her
desk
tomorrow?
You
know
I
need
to
know
what
it
actually
will
do
so
consider
a
section
two
for
non-it
folks
that
I
understand
what
it
is
without
using
all
these
big
fancy.
Words
that
don't
make
any
sense
to
me
giving
examples.
He
knows
a
lot
about
the
metrics
too.
A
How
are
you
going
to
save
me
time
right,
because
if
it
used
to
take
me
two
weeks
to
process
this-
and
now
it's
only
going
to
take
me
two
days
or
two
hours,
I
need
to
understand
that
be
careful,
though
don't
come
and
tell
me
that
I'm
going
to
be
able
to
fire
all
my
employees,
because
I
won't
need
them
anymore.
That's
not
gonna
work
either
in
government
right.
You
know
the
unions
are
not
going
to
like
that.
A
So
I
need
to
be
able
to
say
I'm
going
to
save
a
ton
of
time,
and
we
all
know
what
that
means,
but
don't
put
it
in
the
proposal
right
like
don't.
You
don't
tell
me
that
how
much
money
am
I
going
to
save
right,
that's
huge,
but
because
how
not
only
do
I
need
to
spend
money
to
get
this
project
to
happen.
I
also
need
to
figure
out
how
I'm
going
to
pay
for
it
on
an
ongoing
basis.
So
is
every
user
going
to
have
to
pay
a
x
dollar
fee?
A
Is
that
fee
going
to
increase,
because
if,
if
that's
the
case,
it's
going
to
be
really
hard
for
me
to
get
this
adopted
on
large
scale,
we
need
to
come
up
with
something
so
that
it
is
want
to
be
used
by
my
citizens
and
my
businesses,
and
that's
really
tough
one
to
to
make
happen,
and
what
else
are
the
benefits
and
then
I
have
to
say.
I
actually
took
some
notes
right
so
based
on
everything
that
I
heard
today.
A
A
You
know,
so
if
I
was
to
take
on
a
blockchain
project
and
promote
it
to
do
pretty
much
anything
that
anybody
talked
about
today,
if
we
fail
and
we
wasted
X
millions
of
dollars
of
taxpayer
dollars,
you'll,
never
see
that
happen
again
in
government
right,
so
one
the
project,
Can't
Fail.
We
have
to
figure
out
a
way
to
make
it
not
fail.
A
A
First
of
all,
there's
a
lot
more
forms
than
you
can
impossibly
imagine
in
any
piece
of
government
right
and
to
try
to
simplify
that.
That
needs
to
be
a
part
of
the
solution
right,
so
you
need
to
have
a
lean
expert
comes
in,
come
in
with
a
bunch
of
lawyers,
who's
going
to
say,
let's
look
at
the
form
and
make
sure
the
form's.
Even
right.
A
I
can't
tell
you
how
many
times
the
form's
wrong
it
asks
for
things
they're
not
supposed
to
it,
doesn't
ask
for
things
they're
supposed
to,
and
the
form
is
just
wrong
and
clunky
and
it
has
to
touch
So
Many
Bodies.
Can
we
try
to
streamline
in
some
way
the
process
for
the
form
one
of
the
things
I
like
to
say
a
bad
form
on
paper
is
still
just
a
bad
form
on
the
computer,
so
making
that
conversion
is
super
important
and
it's
much
higher
harder
than
you
think
it
is.
It
involves
lawyers
and
Regulators.
A
It
involves
the
industry
groups
that
you're
affecting
it
involves
the
unions,
and
you
have
to
do
it
one
form
at
a
time.
I
think
I
read
that
the
city
of
Boston
converted
their
paper
forms
to
electronic
and
I.
Don't
know
how
many
of
the
habits
took
them
three
years
to
do
that.
That's
a
major
process,
one
of
the
things
I
heard
today
was
why
don't?
Why
don't?
Why
don't
you
like?
Why
don't
we?
Why
don't
governments
like
throw
their
hands
in
the
air?
A
They
got
a
million
other
fires
they're
trying
to
put
out
you
know,
there's
just
so
many
wrong
things
and
that
everything's
fine,
the
way
it
is
right,
like
that's
the
way
people
like
in
government
tend
to
think
is
everything's
fine.
The
way
it
is.
Why
do
we
have
to
make
change?
You?
Don't
have
to
make
you
know:
everything's,
fine,
fine,
fine,
fine,
so
you've
got
to
really
get
them
on
board
to
understand
that
it
will
make
their
lives
easier,
that
it
will
save
time
it
will.
A
Save
money,
will
do
all
of
these
things
and
again
understanding
that
they're
just
putting
out
fires
all
day
every
day
on
all
whatever
problems
same
thing
about
justifying
spending
of
dollars.
How
do
you
justify
spending
millions
of
dollars
on
a
new
IT
project
when
this
is
happening
or
that
is
happening
or
that
right,
because
in
every
place
where
all
of
you
live,
there's
always
something
worse,
that's
going
on,
so
it
is
just
a
matter
of
really
talking
about
investing
in
dollars
and
looking
at
the
future.
You
know
that.
A
That's
something
that
I'm
often
repeating
to
the
people
that
I'm
asking
for
for
dollars
is
to
say
if
we
start
small
and
then
we
build
it
and
we
grow
it,
you
don't
have
to
spend
50
million
dollars
all
at
once.
That's
what
it
might
cost
at
the
end
of
the
day,
but
if
I
can
just
just
get
I,
don't
know
two
and
a
half
five
million
10
million
and
and
and
do
per
year
we're
just
gonna
slowly
keep
working
on
it.
A
That's
how
I
can
prove
the
concept
and
get
people
on
there
and
then
I
just
can't
say
enough
about
the
metrics
as
far
as
the
dollars
being
saved
moving
as
far
as
people,
don't
people
in
government
don't
move
fast
like
ever
so
trying
to
try
to
get
them
to
you're
gonna
have
to
come
down
to
their
level
of
having
the
pace
that
they
need
to
be
able
to
work
at
and
their
prioritization
as
well.
As
always,
the
cost
is,
is
super
important,
so
I
think
that's
what
we've
got
here.
A
B
Oh,
you
know
well,
so
the
deal
is
I'll
speak
for
I
have
no
Authority
on
anything,
so
everything
I
say
has
no
impact
on
anything.
So
I'll
say
absolutely
yes,
and
the
answer
is,
as
she
said,
she
doesn't
even
control
it
yet
because
she
doesn't
have
funding
so
until
she
gets
funding
and
authorization.
Nothing
even
happens
on
that
side,
but
I
think
you're,
right,
I
think
the
the
argument
that
I
can
make
as
to
why
it
makes
sense.
B
I
can
easily
show
you
back
the
metrics
if
I
said,
here's
Rhode
Island
and
what
what
did
we
do
as
I
said?
Being
a
cheater
I
started
at
the
highest
point,
I
could
so
I
stole
everything
I
even
stole
all
the
performance
stuff.
There
was
no
end
to
what
I'll
steal
I
even
dropped
in
on
Steven's.
You
know
occupy
work
groups,
just
to
say,
I
need
to
know
more,
so
I
stole
everything.
B
I
could
I'm
really
good
at
that,
and
knowing
that
I
steal
a
lot,
I
can
say
here's
the
value
of
what
I
brought
back,
because
I
can
show
you
what
it
would
have
cost
emphasis
to
build
all
this.
Without
that,
so
the
fact
that
I
was
smart
to
steal,
it
all
says:
hey
he's
a
smart
guy.
More
importantly,
in
effect,
if
I
gave
back,
if
we
built
something
useful
and
we
donated
back
some
contribution
back
to
add
into
that
pile
I'd
say:
look
what
we
did.
B
B
So
in
my
every
company
I've
worked
at
has
failed
to
do
a
good
job
of
working
with
open
source
communities
like
Linux
foundation,
hyperledger
and
so
on,
and
forget
hyperledger,
but
even
the
bigger
ones,
Apache
Linux
Foundation,
all
the
ones
have
been
around
a
while,
and
you
say
my
God,
the
economics
are
insane
you
get
so
much
out
of
those
groups
and
no
matter
what
you're
producing
on
the
other
side,
you're
paying
back
a
very
small
value
into
that.
So
the
the
reverse
we
say:
well,
we
don't
have
to
do
that.
B
What's
going
to
happen
is
we're
not
stealing
from
the
groups
anymore?
You
get
the
we're
building
it
in-house,
which
is
an
insane
main
idea.
So
I
have
lived
everywhere
where
we
built
stuff
over
and
over.
In
fact,
I
was
famous
at
IBM,
because
I
invented
the
reinvent
the
wheel
award,
which
I
handed
out
liberally
to
everybody
at
IBM
all
the
time.
So
what.
A
I'll,
just
add
that
you
know
so
we
did
so.
We
finished
our
project,
June
30th.
We
received
two
and
a
half
million
dollars
in
funding,
and
that's
another
thing
you
have
to
worry
about.
Is
it's
not
like
I
can
just
say:
hey
I
need
some
money
to
do
this
project
I've
got
to
come
up
with
a
proposal.
That's
due
at
the
end
of
September.
That
gets
vetted.
A
That,
hopefully
goes
into
the
legislature
in
January,
which
gets
voted
on
June
and
then
I
get
the
dollars
in
July
for
an
idea
that
I
came
up
with
in
April
of
the
following
the
year
before
right,
so
it
just
takes
a
long
time
to
get
those
dollars.
Now
again
we
got
our.
We
got
our
first
two
and
a
half
million.
A
We
now
know
we're
asking
for
a
minimum
of
five
million
on
an
ongoing
basis,
but
if
I
don't
get
it
for
one
year
the
project
dies
for
a
year
until
I
can
get
somebody
interested
back
in
it.
That's
how
that's
how
tough
it
is
for
us
to
get
the
those
projects
going,
but
it
would
be
Our
intention
to
keep
it
open
source
is.
D
A
Your
plan,
so
that's
a
good
question,
I
think
it
depends
on
how
our
RFP
goes.
We
haven't
decided
what
we're
going
to
do.
There
I
think
we
want
to
take
the
same
idea
and
build
it
and
grow
it,
but
the
question
is
whether
we
have
to
start
from
scratch
or
not.
I
think
that
will
depend
on
procurement.
So
another
good
point
of
we
had
a
company
with
a
contract.
That's
over
now
I
have
to
re-rfp
it
out.
It
might
be
the
same
company,
it
might
be
a
different
company
and
that
will
change
things.
B
In
a
sense,
there
is
an
application
that
was
built
under
contract
for
the
state,
so
the
state
owns
the
work
product,
I'm,
guaranteed,
I,
haven't
read
the
contracts,
I
know
they
own
the
work
product,
it
belongs
to
the
state
period.
So
that's
not
an
issue.
The
issue
is
I,
guess
maybe
your
question
is
getting
back
to.
Is
there
anything
from
that?
That
would
be
worth
contributing
back.
I'm,
not
sure
there
is
I.
Don't
know
that
that's
the
case.
B
The
reality
is,
if
you
look
at
what
BC
gov
and
the
other
guys
have
already
done,
I
can't
say
that
we
quote
extended
the
boundary.
What
we
did
is
reapplied
it
to
a
different
use
case
for
sure,
and
so
it
would
really
be
her
team
that
would
have
to
not
only
do
the
RFP,
but
do
the
assessment.
Is
there
anything
at
this
point
worth
contributing
back
so
I
don't
have
an
answer
to
that.
D
B
Is
the
credential
custody
for
the
accountant,
so
there's
there's
an
Enterprise
wallet
that
has,
in
a
sense
all
of
the
credentials
and
the
identities
that's
been
issued
and
you've,
of
course
got
everything
recorded
on
a
blockchain.
But
then
you
have
your
own
individual
wallet
that
has
your
identity
and
the
credentials
you've
been
issued.
You
know
for
that,
for
what
it's
worth
so.
Does
that
mean
that
the
individual
accountants.
B
D
B
A
That's
rarely
how
government
works.
You
know
the
the
covet
dollars
were
a
little
bit
different.
That's
that's
kind
of
how
we're
going
to
get
the
project
started,
but
no,
it
would
be
in
every
year.
It
is.
It
is
rare
for
them
to
invest
long
term.
There
are
different
mechanisms
that
might
be
helpful
to
me,
but
on
an
ongoing
basis,
I'm
only
going
to
be
able
to
know
that
I
can
commit
to
so
much
per
year.
I
might
get
lucky,
I
might
not.
It
depends,
probably
on
Election
Cycles
who's
in
charge.
C
A
A
B
And
yeah,
so,
to
be
honest,
I
did
a
lot
of
research
not
just
for
them,
but
also
after
that
in
the
public
sector
space.
Looking
at
all
the
states
and
trying
to
drive
into
where
they
were
an
identity.
There
were
a
lot
of
States
doing
a
form
of
digital
identity
which
mostly
boiled
down
to
digital
driver's
licenses,
which
I
don't
know
if
it's
15
or
20
states
have
them
it's
nothing
like
this
at
all
as
a
technology
zero
so
like.
B
If
you
look
at
the
benefits
of
this
that
she
was
going
through,
not
just
the
efficiencies
but
the
trust
in
a
sense
and
all
of
those
models,
the
Privacy
controls.
None
of
those
other
identity
projects
are
touching
this,
so
I
was,
as
I
tell
everybody
the
luckiest
guy
in
the
world
to
stumble
into
getting
to
work
with
Liz
and
her
team
on
trying
to
implement
something
that
is
really
different.
So
to
be
fair,
yes,
we
didn't
invent
it.
I
I
personally
said:
let's
steal
it
all
which
they
did,
but
the
beauty
is.
B
It
was
great
stuff
and
a
completely
different
model
for
how
to
manage
identity,
credentials,
privacy,
consent,
trust
and
all
of
that
stuff,
and
it's
automating
digital
trust
at
a
much
higher
level.
The
other
governments
she's
right.
They
do
blockchain,
they
do
digital
identity.
And
it's
nothing
like
this
for
sure
and
that's
why
I
think
this
thing
has
a
lot
of
legs.
B
You
know,
thanks
to
all
the
work
that
you
guys
did
as
well,
that
in
the
long
term,
this
is
going
to
be
a
solution
that
really
wins
it'll
take
a
while
it's
going
to
wind
up
being
paired
identity
solutions
for
a
long
time,
but
there's
no
doubt
that
the
technology
is
a
winner.
It's
not
just
a
winner
from
a
control
and
a
governance
perspective
in
terms
of
what
it
can
do,
but
it's
a
huge
winner
from
a
productivity
perspective
across
the
board.
So
if
you
look
at
the
use
case,
they
did
it's
ridiculous.
B
A
You
know
that
brings
up.
Another
good
point.
Is
the
legislation
piece
if
you
want
to
do
a
digital
digital
driver's
license
pretty
much.
Every
state
would
require
legislative
change
for
that
right
and
that's
to
a
certain
extent,
once
a
year
for
Most
states,
it
doesn't
sometimes
it's
every
other
year.
It
doesn't
even
happen
every
year.
A
B
A
Well,
listen,
my
everyone!
Thank
you
very
much.
If
you,
if
you
see
stuff
that
you
think
I'd
be
interested
in
I'm,
always
a
big
fan
of,
please
send
it
to
me
if
you
think
it's
really
good
stuff,
because
we're
always
again
beg
borrowing
and
stealing
from
everybody
else
and
I'll
be
tonight
at
the
event.
If
anybody
has
questions,
then
thank
you
very
much.