►
From YouTube: Panini NFTs on Hyperledger Sawtooth
Description
A discussion hosted by Hyperledger's Media and Entertainment Special Interest Group on March 23, 2021 with a review of the technical, legal, and business challenges of creating officially licensed digital collectibles. The presentation will start with a review of the Panini Blockchain platform, will describe the business and legal issues that we have faced and will end with a review the technical aspects of our implementation. A video about the Panini Blockchain platform is below.
More about the Media and Entertainment SIG is at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/MESIG/
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
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Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
#Hyperledger #HyperledgerMedia&EntertaimentSIG #Blockchain
A
So
the
youtube
live
stream
is
now
up
just
as
a
note.
There
is
a
chat
on
the
live
stream
page
as
well.
So
when
we
get
to
the
discussion
and
qa,
we
can
just
keep
an
eye
on
the
zoom
chat
and
the
youtube
chat
to
see
if
people
have
questions.
But
with
that
take
it
away
david
very
much
to
all
of
you
who
are
attending
the
talk
either
here
with
us
on
zoom
or
on
youtube.
We
are
collectively
the
media
and
entertainment
special
interest
group
at
hyperledger.
A
A
B
All
right,
thank
you
very
much
david.
We're
excited
to
be
participating
in
this
sig
and
yeah.
This
time
is
really
really
exciting
for
us,
the
the
mainstreaming
of
the
nft
technologies
and
it's
it's
a
rival,
it's
it's
rapid
arrival
into
the
public
consciousness
and-
and
you
know
showing
up
on
major
talk.
Radio
and
news
shows
all
over
the
world
just
really
exciting
for
panini.
Well,
actually,
first,
let's
we'll
start
off
with
some
introductions,
I'm
brendan
cooper.
B
C
Right
well,
my
name
is
roshan
and
I'm
with
x-cube
labs,
and
I
head
up
the
you
know
the
additional
practice
for
customer
experience
at
texas
and
we've
been
working
very
closely
with
brendan
and
his
team
at
panini
on.
You
know:
curating
the
blockchain
marketplace
at
panini,
so
yeah
really
excited
to
be
here
and
looking
forward
to
this
conversation.
B
But
it's
huge
and
of
course,
the
trading
card
category
has
exploded
in
the
last
few
years
and
we're
the
official
officially
lice
collectibles
in
that
category,
with
nfl
fifa,
mlbpa
and
lots
of
other
licenses
we're
charged
with
the
taking
care
of
and
being
stewards
of
120
year
old
category
and
protecting
a
60
year
old
brand
of
some
of
the
most
globally
recognized
brands
in
the
world.
And
so
we
feel,
like
we've,
been
really
conservative
in
how
we've
approached
our
implementation
of
nfts.
B
C
So
I
think
panini
is
in
the
position
now.
Poised
to
you
know,
just
go
upwards
from
here
and
we've
been
happy
to
be
a
part
of
that
journey
and
yeah
and,
like
coop,
said
some
of
the
following
slides
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
the
architecture
of
the
way
we
structured
in
terms
of
the
blockchain
itself
and
yeah.
C
B
All
right,
okay!
So
when
we
started
evaluating
what
was
possible
with
blockchain
technology,
we
knew
that
scarcity
was
key
and
in
the
collectible
industry
scarcity
is
the
game.
Scarcity
is
what
we're
trying
to
achieve.
We
don't
have
to
create
real-time,
complex
game
experiences.
We
need
to
deliver
scarcity
and
so
creating
the
most
collectible.
B
Officially
licensed
nft,
that's
possible.
It
was
our
objective
and
we
strongly
believe
that
the
thing
you
experience
is
the
thing
you
collect
and
owning
only
a
token
isn't
really
a
collectible,
and
because
we
deployed
the
hyperledger
sawtooth
and
we're
running
a
private
network,
we
can
make
strong
representations
legal
representations
about
what
you
get
and
about
the
customer
experience,
whereas
lots
of
other
competitors
in
this
space
aren't
able
to
do
that,
because
they're
using
public
infrastructure
as
their
their
primary
blockchain
and
they're.
B
B
Okay,
so
right
now
our
penide
blockchain
products,
we're
basically
have
three
variations:
we're
selling
a
digital,
nft
collectible
and
that's
a
digital
only
product
we
have
a
digital,
nft
collectible,
with
a
physical
trading
card
as
a
gift
and
and
then
finally,
we
have
a
physical
bonus
card,
which
is
a
physical
card
that
can
be
redeemed
with
the
scratch
off
on
the
back
and
and
so
you
can
actually
redeem
it
for
the
digital
nft
collectible.
It
looks
kind
of
like
this.
This
is
an
example
of
one.
B
B
B
We
use
to
carry
these
licenses
and
their
subjects
the
athletes
we're
doing
several
thousand
individual
contracts
a
year
with
athletes
and
entertainers
all
over
the
world
to
create
our
products.
Let's
go
to
the
next
slide:
roshan.
Okay.
So
I'm
about
to
show
you
the
panini
blockchain
platform,
we're
gonna
go
to
the
site,
we'll
review
it.
B
There's
a
few
things
you
should
know.
We
have
the
blockchain
store
and
we
have
a
dutch
auction,
a
flash
auction
and
just
a
direct
buy
or
a
straight
buy
and
we
have
an
auction
marketplace
and
then
we
have
this
unique
code
that
can
be
redeemed
that
we're
talking
about
on
the
physical
cards
which
we're
calling
bonus
cards.
B
So
I
think,
from
there
we
can
jump
in.
The
point
is:
there's
lots
of
different
ways
to
actually
purchase
these
collectibles
and
there's
different
ways
to
actually
for
users
once
they
purchase
them
to
auction
them
to
each
other,
and
it's
a
pretty
exciting
game
to
play.
Where
scarcity
is
the
game.
So
here
we're
at
the
the
landing
page
of
the
panini
america
site,
and
if
we
you
can
see,
we
can
click
through
and
we
can
look
at.
B
You
see
it's
trending
down
over
time.
Normally
these
are
set
up
at
five
days
at
a
time,
I'm
sorry
for
a
five-day
span
and
then
the
value
will
decrement
over
time
until
someone
claims
the
card
and
actually
purchases
it.
Now.
This
is
a
panini
blockchain
card
with
the
the
gift,
so
we
have
a
a
contractually
guaranteed
nft,
which
is
here,
and
we
have
a
physical
card
that
will
actually
accompany
this
and
we'll
ship
it
to
you
wherever
you
are
in
the
world
and
we'll
ship
that
card
to
you
we're
using
a
dutch
auction.
B
So
you
can
see
those
were
currently
priced
at
about
sixteen
thousand
dollars.
We've
had
products
that
have
individual
cards
that
have
been
selling
for
sixty
five
thousand
dollars
and
that's
really
exciting
price
point.
For
some
of
the
some
of
these
are
going
to
be
the
earliest,
officially
licensed
nfts
ever
ever
issued,
and
we're
excited
about
that.
B
You
can
see
that
there's
a
timer
on
everything
that
creating
scarcity
regimes
in
the
context
of
collectibles
is
really
important,
and
these
scarcity
regimes
apply
to
the
products
themselves,
but
also
the
point
of
sale
where
we
see
here.
Auctions
really
benefit
from
focusing
on
the
time
dimension
and
the
scarcity
of
time
in
which
to
acquire
these
assets,
and
so
it's
really
really
exciting.
B
We
need
lower
price
points
and
we're
really
excited
about
our
next
steps,
and
I
can't
talk
about
what
that
looks
like,
but
there's
a
lot
of
new
stuff
coming
in
the
future,
and
we
think
we've
got
some
of
the
best
nfts
in
the
world
right
here.
Let's
see
so
this
is
a
look,
a
brief
look
at
what
we've
got
the
cards
that
are
acquired
go
into
your
panini
wallet.
What
you're
looking
at
is
the
panini
america
e-commerce
platform,
everything
that
you've
seen
has
a
mobile
companion
and
we've
got
a
a
mobile
app.
B
B
So
you
can
see
here
we
have
a
a
description
and
everything
that
you
see.
That's
part
of
the
detail,
the
name,
the
sku,
the
photo
the
description.
All
of
this
is
being
hashed
and
put
on
the
blockchain,
and
we
we're
really
excited
about
that,
because
what
it
means
is
the
consumer
has
an
immutable
record
and
they've
got
ownership
of
that
record.
B
That
gives
them
a
claim
on
the
asset
themselves,
the
assets
themselves,
so
both
the
images
and
the
the
metadata
that
represents
it,
and
so
that
makes
a
really
really
strong
collectible
in
the
future.
There's
a
way
and
the
technology
is
emerging
to,
let
us
create
a
fully
encapsulated
encapsulated
digital
collectible
and
nft
that
can
actually
go
into
your
wallet,
your
cold
storage
or
it
can
be
placed
elsewhere
in
the
in
the
public
infrastructure,
and
so
that
technology
is
developing
very
rapidly.
B
As
I
mentioned
earlier,
sebastian
pos
at
lithium.app
and
with
the
iscc
and
the
occp
is,
is
really
doing
a
lot
of
work
that
most
of
the
industry
doesn't
know
about
yet,
but
I
assure
you
is
going
to
be
extremely
critical
to
the
future
of
nfts
in
general
and
nft
collectibles,
very
especially
so,
let's
I
think
from
there.
I
think
we're
back
to
the
presentation.
B
Let's
see,
let's
mark
time
here
roshan,
I
think
I
took
about
four
minutes
of
your
time
and
but
I
think,
that's
okay.
I
think
we're
good
we're
shooting
for
about
30
35
minutes
here
on
on
the
presentation.
Hopefully
we
can
open
up
for
questions,
and
I
guess
if
you
have
questions
jump
in
or
we
can
take
them
at
the
at
the
end
of
the.
C
Presentation
so
real,
quick,
just
jumping
off
from
where
coop
left
off
just
showing
all
an
example
of
what's
there
on
the
website.
So
some
of
the
key
elements
that
go
onto
the
blockchain
itself
are
the
key
part
being
the
product,
the
art
or
the
the
card
that's
created,
which
are
beautiful
cards
that
go
under
the
chain.
So
pekko
mentioned,
we
hash
those
the
metadata
on
the
card
is,
you
know,
stored
on
the
chain.
The
other
information,
of
course,
is
of
the
customer.
C
You
know
the
the
private
keys
at
least
those
are
stored
on
and,
like
you
all,
saw
the
we
have
a
public
auction
marketplace
so
anytime,
there's
a
transfer
of
ownership
that
takes
place
from
panini
to
a
user
when
they
buy
the
car
first
time
or
once
the
transfer
happens
in
the
public
option,
there's
always
a
change
of
ownership,
that's
also
recorded
on
the
on
the
chain.
So
some
of
the
key
information
there
that
goes
on
to
the
chain
and
in
terms
of
the
technology
itself
that
we're
using
you
know
when
cooking.
C
When
coop
and
the
panini
team
approached
us
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago
to
build
this.
You
know
private
blockchain
network,
some
of
the
key
requirements
they
had
was.
You
know
one
was
to
have
a
distributed
ledger
architecture,
which
is
an
enterprise,
great
blockchain
system,
and
also
to
have
a
private
blockchain
system
which,
probably
at
a
later
point
in
time,
can
be
bridged
or
have
a
gateway
to
some
of
the
public
networks
out
there.
C
So
a
user
that
currently
has
a
card-
or
maybe
the
panini
network,
may
have
an
option
at
a
later
point
to
choose
to
move
their
car
from
the
panini
network
over
to
any
of
the
public
networks
that
panimi
chooses
as
well.
So
that's
something
that
we
had
to
keep
in
mind
while,
while
you
know
making
a
technology
choice
and,
of
course,
the
ability
to
have
a
ledger
which
is
publicly
visible
at
a
time
that
planian
decides
to
make
that
visible
as
well.
C
So
those
were
some
of
the
key
constraints
or
key
challenges
that
we
had
in
terms
of
picking
the
network
and
during
our
proof
of
concept
that
we
were
working
with.
The
sort
of
hyperledger
was
a
was
a
clear
winner
in
that
that
sense.
So
that's
the
reason
why
we
chose
the
the
sawtooth
network
and
then
built
our
framework
and
our
our
back
end.
You
know
based
on
this
this
technology,
and
I
just
want
to
quickly
take
you
all
through
two
journeys.
C
One
is
that
of
the
the
back
office
or
the
admin
who
helps
mint
these
cards,
as
coupe
mentioned,
there's
a
there's,
a
rarity
aspect
that
goes
into
it
and
then
there's
also
the
front
end
user,
which
is
the
customer
himself
when
he
buys
these
products
and
then
decides
to
transfer
it
out.
So
just
just
the
admin
journey
when,
once
once,
the
team
at
panini
has
decided
the
rarity
of
what
goes
into
a
collection,
what
kind
of
cards
go
into
the
collection?
C
This
is
where
we
build
all
our
business
rules,
where
you
know
some
of
the
card
validations
of
the
card
matter,
property
that
and
goes
as
a
part
of
the
the
product
itself
need
to
be
available,
and
this
is
where
any
duplication
of
data
is
checked
and
deleted
or
eliminated,
and
then
from
there.
You
know
these.
These
are
written
onto
the
blockchain
and
then
in
turn,
your
your
transactions
then
completed
as
an
admin.
C
That's
when
the
the
birth
of
the
card
play
takes
place
or
that's
the
genesis
point
and
from
there
the
the
journey
shifts
hands.
That's
when
you
have
the
the
either
the
dutch
option,
like
coop,
showed
us
a
little
while
ago
takes
him
or
we
have
a
flash
option
or
a
buy
now
concept,
where
users
can
then
decide
to
buy
these
products,
and
you
know
once
they
buy
it
at
a
decent
price
point.
C
They
can
then
decide
to
put
it
on
a
public
auction
and
then
trade
it
out
or
or
decide
to
keep
it
in
their
wallets
and
then
preserve
it
for
forever
right.
So
so
that's
kind
of
like
the
the
journey
that
the
user
has
from
an
architectural
standpoint
and
how
we're
leveraging
the
the
sawtooth
network
to
accomplish
this
this
part
and
we
have
several
nodes
that
are
running
on
the
aws
cloud.
C
So
once
these
nodes
come
together,
you
know
they
sink
in
and
every
time
there's
a
request
that
passes
through
either
for
a
user
making
a
purchase
or
maybe
the
admin
making
a
new
card.
Those
are
all
passed
through
these
services
and
they
come
together
and
that's
when
the
the
entire
network
kind
of
comes
together
so
yeah
in
a
nutshell,
that's
that's
the
flow
on
the
on
the
architecture
side
that
I
had
to
showcase
beyond
yeah
back
to
you.
B
C
So
I
mainly
had
you
know
a
few
things:
few
more
things
on
the
on
the
high
level
architecture
itself
on
the
slides,
so,
okay,
this
is
just
getting
into
more
detail
in
case
we
need
to,
but
I
guess
our
previous
slide
in
terms
of
that
journey
kind
of
did.
You
know
narrates
the
whole
story
about
how
that
journey
happened
so
yeah.
I
think
we
can
open
it
up
to
any
questions
or
anything
else
that
you
have
to
do.
B
B
You
know,
there's
always
those
surprise
moments,
and
I
can
tell
you
that
this
one
we
felt
really
confident
going
into
and
of
course,
one
of
the
exciting
things
and
and
great
things
about
panini
is
that
the
company
takes
a
really
long
view
of
the
market
and
when
they
decided
to
enter
this,
they
made
a
a
really
strong
commitment
to
this
to
the
space.
It
wasn't
the
kind
of
thing
where
okay
brendan
you
have
to
go,
discover
the
market
and
find
it,
and
you
know
it
needs
to
work
in
in
2020.
B
and
of
course
it
did
it.
It
worked
immediately.
It
was
well
received
we
when
we
launched,
we
really
just
focused
on
our
existing
collector
base.
We
didn't
reach
out
to
the
larger
community.
We
felt
like
that
was
kind
of
like
boiling
the
ocean,
we're
happy
that
everyone
else
has
been
able
to
do
that.
For
us,
I
mean
honestly,
that's
been
it's
fantastic
for
us,
because
that
can
be
really
difficult
and
you
don't
know
how
long
it's
going
to
take,
and
now
the
nfts
are
in
the
common
vernacular.
B
We
can
we're
really
excited
about
that.
It
really
is
makes
everything
from
here
on
out
easier,
but
working
living
with
this
technology
and
using
it
day
in
and
day
out,
has
proven
to
be
better
and
easier
and
faster
than
I
certainly
expected.
I
I
I
stepped
into
this
space
with
several
years
of
watching
it,
and
you
know
it's
it's
difficult.
It's
a
difficult
technology,
it's
punishing
when
you're
wrong,
and
I
mean
it.
It
requires
you
to
it's
just
different.
B
D
About
that,
as
a
rights
holder
right
like
in
this,
so
as
a
rights
holder-
and
this
is
a
new
palette-
this
is
new
real
estate.
This
is
a
new
technology,
it's
just
like
getting
the
camera
for
the
first
time
or
getting
the
film
you
know
whatever,
and
a
new
technology
like
how.
How
is
panini
approaching
that
I
mean.
Are
you
approaching
it
strategically
or
is
it
just?
You
know
we're
going
to
put
our
in
the
water,
because
everybody
knows
this
is
a
big
deal,
and
this
is
a.
B
You
know
there.
There
was
some
risk
and
there
is
technology
risk
with
this.
But
fundamentally
we
we
have
cut
our
teeth
on
digital
collectibles.
Prior
to
this,
with
mobile
free
to
play
apps,
we
have
officially
licensed
mobile
free
to
play
apps
on
the
google
and
apple
stores.
We've
also
deployed
them
for
the
fifa
world
cup,
on
10
cents,
sports
and
news
network
inside
in
china,
and
so
these
mobile
free
to
play
games.
B
For
any
reason
we
could
take
those
things
down
tomorrow
and
users
have
no
recourse,
but
what
we
learned
is
that
users
they
want
the
content.
You
know
the
content
is
key
and
the
token
is
not
key
and
when
we
took
this
platform
we're
talking
about
nfts,
but
when
we
took
it
into
production
14
15
months
ago
we
went
to
our
existing
collectors
and
you
know
what
they
didn't.
Really,
we
didn't
get
a
lot
of
questions
about
the
technology
like
they
trusted
the
brand.
B
They
know
that
panini's
a
world
leader
in
collectibles
and
if
we
say
this
thing's
a
collectible,
they
trusted
us
to
deliver
them
a
collectible
and
now
that
the
concept
of
the
nft
is
mainstreamed
and
there's
a
lot
of
people,
new
people
entering
this
space
and
they're
asking
really
hard
pointy
questions
about
what
they're
getting
and
why
it's
collectible
and
we're
in
exactly
the
right
position.
We're
right
where
we
want
to
be.
We
have
a
very
collectible
product
because
it
was
engineered
from
the
ground
up
to
be
as
collectible
as
the
technology
would.
B
B
B
But
as
part
of
that,
you
also
make
a
public
claim
of
how
many
of
something
your
mate
you're
making
and-
and
that
that's
I
mean
that's
in
our
dna-
we
don't
make
a
collectible
product
where
we
don't
tell
you
and
we
call
them
checklists,
but
everything
we
make
every
product
is
going
to
contain
multiple
cards,
there's
going
to
have
different
levels
of
scarcity,
buy
cards
and
card
type
and
players,
and
we
explain
that
we
make
public
representations
about
what
those
are.
So
that
and
and
we
never
change
that
and.
B
Yeah,
so
so
the
legal
requirements
don't
actually
require
us
to
well,
they
require
specify
the
odds
of
getting
something
okay,
and
so
we
either
have
to
specify
the
odds
per
pack
or
we
have
to
specify
the
product
and
and
the
content
that's
in
it,
and
so
we
represent
that
using
a
checklist
that
people
can
download
and
and
can
verify
so
we're
making
those
claims.
And
again.
B
This
is
something
that
a
lot
of
the
earl,
the
the
startups
and
the
the
early
participants
in
the
nft
collectible
space
aren't
doing,
and
you
know
when
you're
in
a
collectible
category
there
is
this
really
strong
pressure
to
to
to
create
supply,
to
match
demand
and
in
the
collectible
space
supply
has
to
always
be
but
below
demand,
and
so
you
you've
heard
the
the
meme
going
around
the
money.
Printer
go
brewer,
okay,
so
because
in
currencies
and
cryptocurrencies
you
know
the
the
attraction
of
the
cryptocurrency
is
you
can't
just
run
the
presses?
B
B
So
we
can't
just
run
the
pr
presses
forever
and
make
more,
and
we
can't
just
make
the
nft.
We
can't
just
keep
putting
the
clicking
the
nft
button
forever
and
and
make
millions
of
them.
We.
We
have
very
defined
parameters
and
claims
that
we
make
publicly
so
that
everyone
can
be
assured
of
what
they're
getting
and
the
value
that
they're
getting.
A
C
Yeah,
that's
a
good
question
eddie.
So
at
this
moment
no
of
a
fan
can
not
buy.
You
know
cryptocollectible
using
a
cryptocurrency.
It's
just
on.
You
know
using
it's
it's
traded
on
usd
and
then
you
know
you
can
just
use
your
credit
card
or
your.
You
know
a
paypal
account
to
go
ahead
and
make
a
purchase,
but
this
is
something
that's
definitely
in
the
works
in
terms
of
being
able
to
use
the
cryptocurrency
to
make
a
purchase
on
the
panini
marketplace
itself.
C
B
Yeah
and
for
the
yeah
and
for
the
secondary
market
right
now,
it's
only
on
the
panini
market,
for
secondary
sales
and
creating
those
gateways
and
on-ramps
is
is
a
obvious
step
and
is
something
that
we're
looking
at
very
carefully
and
excited
about.
You
know
that
future
possibility.
I
can't
talk
about
anything.
That's
on
the
roadmap,
though
so
I'm
sorry
heidi
did
you
have
another
question.
I
was
just
gonna.
A
B
We
have
millions
of
customers
all
over
the
world
and
the
one
thing
that
we
know
for
sure
and
anyone
operating
in
the
mass
market
does
is
that
if
a
user
consumer
can
lose
their
password,
they
will,
and
you
know,
trying
to
explain
that
these
are
bare
instruments
and
if
you
lose,
your
keys,
they're
gone
forever
and
you've
got
a
hundred
thousand
dollar
or
a
million
dollar
portfolio
which,
by
the
way,
is
not
unusual
for
some
of
our
larger
customers
explaining
to
them
that
if
they
lost
their
keys,
it's
gone
forever.
Like
that's
real
hard
marketing.
B
That's
you
know
my
vp
of
marketing,
jason
howard
is
like
yeah
that
that's
not
a
story.
I
can
tell
I'm
not
telling
that
story
in
2019
when
we're
giving
shake
to
this
and,
of
course,
at
this
time
the
wallets
are
maturing
their
social
recovery,
their
shaffer.
You
know
recovering
models,
multi-sig,
there's
lots
of
things
that
are
gonna
emerge
that
are
gonna.
B
Let
consumers
recover
their
keys
and
and
be
in
a
position
and
we're
gonna
put
them
in
a
position
where,
if
they
want
their
own
custody,
they
can
have
it
and
panini's
out
and
it's
your
keys
and
if
you
lose
them,
they're
gone
or
you
can
share
custody
with
us
and
you
get
in
trouble.
We're
gonna
help
you
out
it's
a
climate.
B
D
Well,
that's
that's
an
interesting
thing
too.
I
mean,
and
I'm
assuming
that
I
mean
I
don't
want
to
get
everyone
too
far
away
from
the
the
nuts
and
bolts
and
technical
stuff.
But
the
legal
side
of
things
like
how
does
the
legal
line
up
with
the
code
and
you
know
is
it
is
it
is
the
technology
something
that
gives
you
more
of
a
palette
of
opportunities.
Kind
of
like
a
creative
commons
was
invented
for
that
purpose.
A
D
B
Yeah
well
so
so,
there's
a
whole
world.
That's
as
you
suggest
that
we
can
absolutely
look
into
the
future
and
see
lots
of
different
rights,
the
rights
we
give
our
users
a
claim
in
the
digital
asset,
which
is
a
more
a
legal
claim
and
they
have
rights
in
the
digital
asset
and
that's
more
than
than
most
all
other
nfts
that
are
being
published
today.
So
we're
really
proud
of
that
in
the
future.
B
Yeah
there's
a
lot
more
rants
and
rights
and
derivative
works
that
could
at
the
option
of
the
license
or
panini's
the
licensee
that
could
emerge
and
and
be
attached
to
these
these
digital
assets.
And
you
know
that
would
be
something.
That's
that's
possible
in
the
future.
If
the
licensors
want
to
do
that,
and
I'm
expecting
at
some
point
the
market's
going
to
emerge
for
those
those
types
of
arrangements.
B
Yeah
a
lot,
I
think,
there's
lots
of
standards.
You
know
it's
one
of
the
things,
that's
really
missing
in
the
industry
and
you
can
see
it
based
on
the
actual
technical
implementations.
You
know
if
you
go
to
a
major,
licensor
and
you're,
trying
to
articulate
why
your
nft
is
better
and
offers
stronger
claims
on
collectibility.
B
You
know,
there's
not
a
third
party
to
evaluate
that
you
know
so.
I
use
the
example.
If
you're,
if
you're
disney
company
and
disney's
licensing
out
little
princess
umbrellas,
you
know
disney's
not
an
expert
in
umbrellas,
but
they
do
know
that
in
the
contract
they
can
have
the
ul
listing
right
and
they
can
have
that
that
that
umbrella
certified
as
being
safe
and
workable
for
their
brand
and
for
the
demographic
it's
targeted
at
and-
and
you
know
so,
there's
different
certifying
bodies.
I
expect
to
emerge
meeting.
C
C
A
B
So
the
description,
the
the
the
long
description,
the
short
description,
all
of
that
is,
is
hashed
and
on
the
blockchain,
and
we
can
make
a
strong
legal
claim
because
of
the
way
that
that's
been
engineered
and
and
that's
in
our
terms
of
service-
and
I
think
it's
it's
one
of
the
strongest
ones
in
the
industry-
and
you
know
we're
dedicated
to
making
that
even
stronger
in
the
future.
But
frankly,
the
only
thing
that's
really
left
is
is
custody.
C
Right
so
so
I
hope
I
answered
your
first
question
so
that
that
one's
on
you
know
hyperledger
framework
on
the
sawtooth
java,
the
javascript
framework
on
hyperledger
and
to
answer
your
second
question:
we
are
not
using
the
ipf's
framework,
we're
currently
on
our
on
our
secure
cloud
network
where
we're
storing
the
images
there.
So
you
know
that
part
becomes
a
little
little
tricky
for
the
users
right.
C
C
Yeah,
you
know
I'm
really
intrigued
by
the
use
of
sawtooth
by
you
guys.
You
know
right,
and
maybe
ben
can
add
to
this
as
well.
In
terms
of
you
know,
I
think
brendan
was
talking
about
how
there's
a
limited
amount
of
cards
that
are
minted
or
the
limited
amount
of
copies
that
that
are
there
in
circulation
right.
C
So
I
think,
where
panini
is,
is
done
or
doing
an
excellent
job
in
terms
of
preserving
that
rarity
or
the
ownership
for
users
comes
in
that
that
portion
where
there
are
limited
amount
of
assets
that
are
printed,
there's
no
duplication
of
these
assets.
Each
one
of
these
are
our
unique
individual
assets.
B
Yeah,
every
every
card
is
unique,
we're
not
wrapping
it
and
putting
a
number
next
to
it
and
saying:
okay:
this
is
the
first
one
and
having
another
wrapper
for
the
next
one.
That's
the
second
one.
Each
each
digital
asset
is
a
unique
asset
and
if
it's
run
through
a
hashing
function
is
going
to
give
you
a
different
hash
value
and
again
that's
that's
by
design
and
that's
to
make
the
each
individual
digital
collectible
the
the
strongest
nft
that
that
we
can
make
and
the
most
collectible
assets
we
can
make.
A
Yeah,
I
think
these
are
some
really
key
differentiators,
so
yeah
thanks
for
elaborating
on
those
sure,
brett's
got
a
really
vital,
archival
question,
which
is:
will
panini
offer
to
rework
their
legacy
trading
cards
for
their
clients
who
are
adapting
to
nft?
So
are
you
going
to
work
your
way
through
your
back
catalogue.
B
Well
I'll
tell
you
what
I
think
the
nft
technology,
so
maybe
not
as
it's
deployed
today,
there's
still
some
things
to
really
complete
and
and
make
the
nft
collectible
as
strong
as
it
can
be.
But
there
are
companies
with
many
many
billions
of
dollars
in
back
catalog
assets
that
can
be
monetized
in
the
future.
D
B
B
Well,
I
can
say:
well
I
mean
there's
a
lot
in
the
public
domain
and
I'm
happy
to
to
share
that
nathan
and
what's
understood
in
the
public
domain
is
if
you
take
a
physical
collectible
and
you
have
strong
authentication
on
it,
you
can
separate
ownership
using
an
nft
and
then
have
custody.
Okay,
someone
so
panini
or
a
third
party
could
custody
the
asset
and
have
it
in
their
vaults
that
are
super
secure.
So
I
don't
have
to
to
ensure-
or
I
have
uninsurable
assets
worth
millions
of
dollars.
B
That's
right,
and
so
in
this
case
and
then
the
nft
can
trade
on
an
aftermarket
and
of
course
it's.
It
represents
a
call
option
on
the
physical
thing
anytime
that
you
want
to
take
custody
of
it
and
that's
a
pretty
exciting
thing.
You
know
all
the
d5
rails
that
enable
that
same
asset
to
either
have
fractional
ownership
or
be
part
grouped
together,
so
that
it's
part
of
a
an
investment
portfolio
and
then
you
buy
shares
into
that
all
that's
possible.
D
D
Well,
it's
interesting
david
because
you
know
there's
an
opportunity
to
have
effects
in
the
film
industry
where
you
can
allow
contributors
and
assets
and
clearance
to
happen
in
this
method
and
reduce
eno
insurance
and
time
to
get
movies
into
distribution
by
orders
of
magnitude,
and
it's
something
that
I've
been
working
on
for
about
two
years.
Okay,
talk
to
afi
about
as
well,
and
you
can
imagine
what
kind
of
an
effect
that
would
have
in
the
industry
in
terms
of
velocity
and
content,
and
also
the
derivative
and
the
the
cap.
D
C
B
B
You
created
something
where
now
you
have
to
have
really
really
surprising,
world-changing
economic
impact
to
actually
infringe
upon
whatever
you
might
own
on
a
blockchain,
that's
on
a
consortium,
so
maybe
panitti
wants
to
embrace
that
and
develop
that
consortium.
Maybe
they
don't
either
way
we're
in
a
position
where
we
can
pivot
and
do
that
if
it
looks
like
that's
more
valuable
than
our
other
choices.
B
A
B
A
That
well,
that
was
my
point.
It's
the
second
part
of
my
question
right
on
it
either
or
yeah,
and
I
think
your
answer
brandon
was
right
on
and
by
the
way,
I'm
on
hyperledger
staff.
So
your
answer
was
right
on.
Is
that
you've
chosen
a
technology
that
allows
you
to
start
at
one
point
and
if
needed,
or
if
the
market
demands
or
essentially,
if
your
customers
right
and
the
your
network
demands
that
you
can
expand
that
way
as
well.
So
that's
great
to
hear.
C
Yeah,
I
think
I
can
take
the
next
question
from
on
the
gas
core,
so
so
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
we
chose
the
private
network,
you
know
also
bouncing
off
your
earlier
question-
was
that
the
entry
barrier
we
wanted
to
keep
that
low.
So
in
this
case
there
is
no,
you
know
minting
costs
or
a
gas
cost
involved
here,
it's
more
just
the
compute
cost
in
terms
of
what
we
incur.
So
none
of
that
is
passed
on
to
the
user.
So
it's
it's!
C
A
C
A
B
And
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
that's
certainly
exciting
about
this
technology
is
panini
can
create
these
experiences
and
the
consumer
gets
to
operate
on
the
platform
and
and
conduct
the
and
do
the
kinds
of
things
that
they're
used
to
doing
out
in
the
wild
and
web
2.0
infrastructure
like
ebay,
for
example,
and
there's
no
packaging.
They
don't
have
to
authenticate,
they
don't
have
to
take
photos
and
upload
them
and
post
them.
It's
a
it's.
B
The
modern
trading
card
trades
anywhere
from
a
dollar
to
ten
thousand
dollars
per
pack,
and
you
know
so
on
the
high
end,
there
are
jewels
and
autographs
and
game
used
memorabilia
and
that
that
and
precious
metals
that
are
going
into
the
products,
and
so
a
lot
of
people
don't
know
that
about
the
category.
But
on
the
lower
end,
this
is
where
people
get
embrace
and-
and
we've
got
a
really
broad
population
that
are
interested
in
trading.
B
Well,
so
so
our
products
we
we
specialize
in
officially
licensed
products
and
video
typically
falls
into
a
different
licensing
category
and
there's
different
ways
for
the
licensors
to
partition
that
I
think
the
the
short
answer
is
no,
because
that's
not
really
what
we're
doing
as
a
as
a
collectible
company.
We
do
have
lots
of
fantastic
video
where
we
spend
lots
of
time
with
the
athletes
throughout
their
career
and
each
year
throughout
the
season
as
they
play
they're
autographing
our
cards,
and
it's
part
of
that.
So
we're
we're
really
engaged
with
athletes.
B
They
know
who
we
are
and
we
get
to
interact
with
them
a
lot,
and
so
we've
got
a
lot
of
video
there.
You
know
those
possibilities
exist,
but
you
know
videos.
For
example.
I
think
the
nfl
just
signed
the
200
billion
dollar
agreement
for
their
video
rights.
They
take
those
pretty
seriously.
They
really
help
pay
the
freight
for
for
the
for
the
big
license.
Yours
and
so
video,
maybe
maybe
not,
but
we
could
I
mean
we
could.
D
B
B
No
well,
it
was
really
just
a
standalone
card
that
was
had
had
a
pretty
thick
aspect
and
it
was
interesting.
People
collected
them,
but
we
didn't
the
the
community.
The
trading
card
community
didn't
really
feel
like
they.
They
were
part
of
what
they
were
doing
and
again
that's.
That
was,
I
think
we
experimented.
B
Sure
so,
yeah
so
on
on
the
panini
site,
there's
lots
of
different
memorabilia
that
we
sell.
We,
we
have
officially
autographed
our
panini
authentic
division,
specializes
in
basketballs
and
jerseys
shoes
and
helmets.
You
know
lots
of
different
memorabilia,
that's
signed
by
the
athletes
and
so
yeah
I
mean
the
the
bundling
and
unbundling
of
those
is
super
exciting.
Using
this
technology.
B
B
D
D
A
B
C
A
Yeah
we'll
be
in,
and
you
know
one
of
the
I
know
you
know
we
want
to
wrap
up.
We
want
to
be
respectful
everyone's
time.
Is
you
know,
as
you
can
imagine,
we're
getting
a
lot
of
inquiries?
You
know
at
hyperledger
from
a
staff
perspective
from
companies,
so
you'd
love
to
you
know
like
brandon
and
motion.
If,
if
someone
came
to
you
from
you
know
an
indus,
you
know
in
the
media
industry,
for
example,
or
collectibles
industry,
where
would
you
tell
them
to
start?
Where
do
you
start
this
journey.