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From YouTube: Asset Tokenization Done at Scale
Description
A recording a virtual meetup hosted by the Hyperledger India Chapter on May 20, 2023 featuring Ashwath Govindan, Co-Founder of Sydra, speaking about asset tokenization done at scale.
Asset tokenization is the process by which an issuer creates digital tokens on a distributed ledger or blockchain, which represent either digital or physical assets.
Enterprise tokenization using Hyperledger Fabric can use Spydra’s powerful APIs to create, update, track & trace Assets in different industry use cases like Supply chain, Logistics, Medicine, etc.
If you're interested in learning more about tokenization, check out Hyperledger's Capital Markets Special Interest Group at:
https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CMSIG/
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
B
All
right,
yeah,
thanks
kamlesh
and
thanks
everyone
for
joining
this
session,
so
I
must
govindam
as
someday
shortly
introduced.
I
am
the
co-founder
of
spider
and
before
spider,
a
quick
introduction
about
myself
right,
so
the
first
spider
I
used
to
work
for
almost
16
years
with
Microsoft,
mostly
focused
on
the
cloud
Technologies
and
security
identity,
and
eventually
blockchain
and
I
I
helped
a
lot
of
customers
around
the
globe,
adopt
various
Cloud
scale
Technologies
and
build
Solutions
on
top
of
it
for
a
long
time.
B
So,
as
we
all
know
right,
there
is
a
lot
of
use
cases
in
in
any
business
or
traditional
Enterprise
space,
where
blockchain
can
help
right
where
there
are
multiple
parties,
parties
or
organizations
in
this.
In
this
context,
that
are
involved
in
a
business
process
and
blockchain
is
one
of
the
way
where
you
know
to
some
of
those
business
process
can
be
streamlined
and
data
can
be
shared
transparently,
with
all
the
goodness
of
blockchain
right
that
we
all
understand,
but
in
today's
world
right
it's
a
bit.
B
If
you
look
at
any
organization
that
wants
to
adopt
blockchain
and
do
something
with
it,
there's
a
lot
of
friction
as
such
right
and
organizations
find
it
difficult
to
move
from
traditional
web
to
technologies
that
they
understand
very
well
to
something
like
blockchain
right
and
that's
where
most
of
that's,
where
we
are
focused
on
as
a
company.
So
our
mission
fundament
pleased
to
make
the
adoption
of
blockchain
technology
is
very
easy
for
Enterprise,
and
you
know,
customers
which
organizations
so
that
they
can
basically
use
and
integrate
with
blockchain.
B
Just
like
you
would
do
with
the
regular
database,
for
example
right
and
not
worry
too
much
about
how
the
technology
works.
You
don't
have
to.
You,
know,
fully
understand
the
internals
of
how
blockchain
works
and
what
it
does,
and
you
know
things
like
order
appear
in
a
hyperledger
fabric
environment,
for
example.
Right.
So
that's
why?
B
Where
we
have
been
working
with
a
lot
of
customers
to
implement
a
lot
of
the
blockchain
use
cases
for
various
Industries
right
and
then
what
we
found
was
that
we
are
doing
a
lot
of
repetitive
work
right
right
from
deploying
infrastructure.
So
because
we
are
talking
about
the
private
or
Enterprise
blockchain
space,
so
there's
always
some
infrastructure
that
you
have
to
deploy
that
to
at
scale
right
and
then
multiple
organizations
are
involved
and
when
you
have
to
actually
scale
your
use
case
and
onboard
multiple
participants.
B
There's
a
lot
of
infrastructure,
definitely
involved
so
right
from
that
to
actually
developing
the
solution
on
blockchain
to
integrating
it
with
existing
applications.
There's
a
lot
of
things
which
which
are
not
available
out
of
the
box,
but
at
the
same
time
you
know
those
are
repetitive
kind
of
tasks
that
you
have
to
do
for
every
customer.
B
So
that's
where
you
know,
based
on
our
learnings,
we
came
up
with
the
asset
tokenization
platform,
which
is
basically
a
platform
that
we
provide
to
easily
tokenize
any
online
or
off
offline
physical
assets
on
a
blockchain
and
make
it
very
easy
for
customers
to
do
so.
So
our
platform
is
currently
fully
built
on
hyperledger
fabric
and
basically
covers
you,
know
different
use
cases
across
different
Industries,
but
more
focused
on
the
Enterprise
use
cases
or
the
Enterprise
side
of
blockchain
at
this
point
of
time,
yeah.
B
Okay,
so
what
is
asset
organization?
First
of
all,
right?
I'm
sure
you
all
know
about
it,
but
you
know
just
to
just
to
level
set
everyone
right,
so
asset
tokenization
is
basically
all
about
turning
any
asset,
which
is
of
value
value
could
be
actually
actual
value.
It
could
be
intangible
also
right,
but
turning
that
into
a
digital
representation,
so
that,
then
you
can
do
a
lot
of
things
around
it
right.
B
You
can
start
tracking
things,
so
you
know
a
lot
of
the
in
the
supply
chain
use
cases
you
can
start
tracking
things
or
you
can
start
trading
things
after
that.
After
doing
that,
so
it
could
be
physical
objects,
it
could
be.
You
know,
intangible
objects,
like
you
know,
intellectual
property.
It
could
be
things
like.
You
know
even
invoices
and
things
in
the
supply
chain,
industry
or
financial
industry.
B
It
could
actually
be
real
money,
also
right
fiat
currency-
or
you
know,
cryptocurrencies
cbdc
loyalty
points
things
like
that
right,
so
anything
which,
which
you
want
to
have
a
digital
representation
and
easily,
basically
crack
or
trade
between
multiple
entities
that
are
involved
in
a
trustless
manner
right.
So
that
is
what
asset
tokenization
is
all
about.
B
B
B
Mostly
these
come
from
the
ethereum
side
of
things,
but
you
know
they
are
standards
right,
so
you
can
actually
Implement
them
in
any
any
blockchain
as
such.
But
when
it
comes
to,
you
know,
really
scaling
asset.
Tokenization
scaling
means
I'm,
not
really
talking
about
performance
at
this
point
of
time,
but
basically
using
the
concept
of
asset
tokenization
across
Industries
for
different
kinds
of
needs,
right
and
basically
really
utilizing
blockchain
across
Industries
right.
B
It's
not
even
just
about
these
standards
right,
because
a
lot
of
the
use
cases
would
require
you
to
do
things
Beyond
these
standards
as
well
like,
for
example,
right
if
you
are,
if
I
take
the
same.
You
know
example
of
a
shipment
that
you
tokenize
in
a
in
a
blockchain.
Let's
say
you
create
an
nft
right,
which
represents
the
the
actual
shipment
now
as
part
of
the
ERC
721
or
1155
standards.
B
B
B
Once
you
add
a
record
into
the
system,
then
you
can
start
querying
and
do
a
lot
of
things
with
that.
With
a
lot
of
flexibility,
unfortunately,
when
we
talk
about
blockchain,
that's
not
it's!
It's
not!
You
know
as
flexible
as
a
traditional
database
right.
So
once
you
start
creating
Assets
in
the
blockchain,
there
are
limited
things
that
you
can
do
with
it
right.
You
can
execute
certain
functions.
If
you
want
to
go
beyond
that,
then
you'll
have
to
start
rolling
your
own
things
right.
B
You
have
to
start
looking
at
going
above
and
beyond
beyond
these
standards
and
then
start
doing
things
your
own
way.
So
those
are
good,
related
presentation.
Also
on
this,
which
just
happened
couple
of
weeks
ago,
which
in
a
similar
you
know
hyperledger,
Meetup,
I,
believe
in
in
U.S,
where
Daniel
Barbosa
was
talking
about.
You
know,
asset
organization,
it's
it's
really
far
more
than
nfts
and
crypto
right.
B
So
today
what
I'll
talk
I'll
talk
about,
is
you
know
not
the
typical
nft
and
crypto
use
cases
which
I
believe
has
been
talked
about
a
lot
right?
But
what,
if
you
want
to
do
asset
tokenization
and
use
as
a
asset?
Tokenization,
and
maybe
you
know
solve
other
other
use
cases
like
track
and
Trace
in
a
supply
chain,
or
maybe
something
in
the
fintech
space
or
Insurance
space,
where
you
have
to
participate
collaborate
with
multiple
participants
and
do
things
like
supply,
chain,
financing
or
invoice
discounting.
B
So
these
kind
of
things
right
so
so
I
I
was
talking
about
what
asset
tokenization
is
fundamentally
right.
But
what
is
this?
What
can
you
actually
do
with
it
right?
There
are
a
lot
of
things
that
you
can
do
with
it,
or
a
lot
of
things
that
it
does
really
you
can
be.
It
brings
in
transparency,
which,
obviously
we
all
know
is
what
blockchain
really
stands
for,
so
it
makes
the
same
set
of
data
available
to
different
participants
and
that
itself
basically
unlocks
a
lot
of
use
cases
right.
B
It
can
bring
in
efficiency
across
systems
that
are
owned
by
multiple
participants.
So
the
moment
you
enable
this
information
flow
and
a
single
source
of
Truth,
where
you
know,
instead
of
having
different
disparate
information
systems
and
data
that
is
stored
in
different
systems.
Once
you
have
a
single
source
of
truth,
that
information
can
be
accessed
by
multiple
participants
and
systems
that
are
owned
by
multiple
participants
and
that
can
actually
bring
in
operational
efficiencies
and
even
eventually
cost
savings.
B
Because
of
that-
and
you
know
we
can
do
things
like
do
a
lot
of
Automation
in
the
blockchain
itself,
via
Smart
contracts,
which
can
basically
use
that
data
and
then
execute
some
business
processes
automatically
rather
than
you
know,
a
lot
of
the
manual
business
processes
that
happen
today
and
then,
of
course,
there's
the
you
know:
trading
and
fraction
fractionalization
part
of
it
where
you
can
convert
real
world
assets
into
tokens.
And
then
you
can,
you
know,
start
trading
them.
B
B
The
real
value
comes
when
blockchain,
when
other
other
applications
applications
that
are
there
in
a
customers
or
organization's
ecosystem
already
they
can
be
integrated
with
blockchain
and
blockchain
can
be
truly
integrated
into
existing
business
processes.
Right,
that's
in
the
true
value
of
it
comes
so
that's
the
that's
the
last
thing,
which
is
integrating
applications
into
existing
ecosystem
right.
B
So
so,
let's,
let's
start
talking
about
all
of
these
one
by
one
right.
So
when
we
are
talking
about
managing
infrastructure
right,
there's
the
automation
part
of
it
right,
and
we
believe
truly
that
you
know
infrastructure
can
be
managed
at
scale
and
in
a
long
run
only
through
automation.
A
lot
of
organizations
and
teams
start
with
you
know
deploying,
for
example,
hyperledger
fabric
manually
right
and
then
the
problems
start
emerging.
Initially,
you
know
just
to
get
a
very
small
Network
up
and
running
is
probably
very
easy.
B
You
can
also
also
use
a
test
Network,
and
you
know
it
will.
It
will
be
done
in
five
minutes
right
or
couple
of
minutes,
but
then
the
real
challenges
start
coming.
When
you
have
to
onboard
multiple
organizations,
those
organizations
can
really
be.
You
know
distributed
across
different
geographies,
everybody
has
their
own
would
be
have
their
own
cloud
could
have
their
own
on-premises,
where
they
want
their
notes
to
be
hosted
so
on
and
so
forth.
B
So
when
it
comes
to
hyper
layer
fabric
right,
you
can
create
multiple
channels.
You
can
have
different
organizations
participating
in
those
channels.
There
could
be
multiple
nodes,
you
can
have
chain
codes
or
different
versions
of
change
codes.
You
can
upgrade
a
chain
port,
a
lot
of
those
things
right.
So
all
of
this
you
know
eventually
requires
some
sort
of
automation.
B
So
there
are
keys,
there
are
certificates,
even
the
nodes
in
a
hyperledger
fabric,
infrastructure
requires
certificates
of
user
certificates
right
and
then,
in
the
long
run,
even
if
your
provision
certificates
in
the
first
place,
they
will
expire
after
some
time
right
so
you'll
have
to
start
renewing
them.
So
there's
a
lot
of
automation
that
goes
into
it.
You
need
to
figure
out
where
to
store
those
certificates
securely.
B
What
we
are
seeing
is
that
a
lot
of
customers
who
deploy
hypologist
fabric
follow
the
test
Network
and
then
the
certificates
are
stored
in
a
files
file
system
somewhere,
which
is
not
the
right
way
to
do
that.
Right
certificates
are
sensitive.
Okay,
who
are
gets
access
to
a
certificates
can
really
compromise
the
entire
system
right.
B
So
that's
where
you
know
what
we
have
done
is
basically
we
have
automated
a
lot
of
this
in
our
you
know.
So
we
did.
We
started
with
automating
this
for
our
customers
that
we
have
been
working
with
and
then
eventually
you
know
brought
it
into
a
platform
that
now
customers
can
use
directly.
So
I'll
show
you
that,
but
before
that
you
know
I'll
talk
about
how
how
we
have
gone
about.
A
D
A
D
B
A
D
D
B
I
hope
you
can
see
my
screen:
yeah
yeah,
okay,
yeah,
so
so
basically,
I
was
talking
about
the
automation,
right,
automation
of
the
infrastructure.
So
the
way
that
we
had
done
the
automation
is
made
primarily
by
using
hyperledger
bevel
right,
where
we
basically
have
a
central
control,
plane
kind
of
where
you
know,
users
can
come
in
and
then
I'll
show
you
that.
But
then,
once
you
perform
network
operations
on
the
console,
we
basically
use
Jenkins
to
schedule
the
Automation
and
then
which
it
only
uses
hyper
legit
level.
B
And
eventually
you
know
the
the
network
is
managed
through
that.
So
we,
although
we
have
used
hyperledger
bevel
as
such,
we
had
to
do
some
modifications
to
it,
because
bevel
is
more
general
purpose
right,
which
deals
with
different
blockchain
networks,
but
we
specifically
deal
with
high
quality
Fabric
and
then
specific.
You
know
in
a
specific
way
right
where
we
want
to
provision
multiple
organizations,
for
example
together
or
multiple
nodes,
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
B
So
so
we
had
to
do
some
optimizations
in
terms
of
performance,
and
you
know
the
type
taken
to
do
all
of
that.
So
we
have
done
some
parallelization
rather
than
sequentially
operating
things
and
things
like
that
and
eventually
you
know
basically
using
that
we
we
basically
manage
the
network,
so
I
quickly
show
you
how
how
we
do
that
in
our
platform.
So
let
me
switch
to
the
the
platform,
so
you
can.
B
Actually
you
can
also
go
to
spider
dot
app
and
then
you
can
sign
up
to
our
platform
and
once
you
sign
up
you
know
you
get
a
certain
set
of
free
credits,
so
you
get
almost
400
credits
that
you
can
use
to
use
to
try
out
the
platform
as
such.
So
once
you
sign
up
right,
this
is
the
kind
of
a
view
that
you
will
get
and
on
the
platform,
as
you
can
see
right,
you
can
create
organizations,
networks
and
applications.
B
So
network
is
basically
the
blockchain
network,
but,
as
you
all
know
before
for
a
blockchain
network,
you
need
to
the
multiple
participants
in
a
Enterprise
or
a
private,
blockchain
Network
or
are
organizations,
so
you
create
organizations
first.
So
creating
organization
is
nothing.
You
know
it's
pretty
simple.
You
provide
the
name
and
a
few
other
details
which
I'll
not
go
into.
What
I'll
focus
more
is
in
the
network
part
right,
so
we
have
tried
to
make
it
a
little
bit
more
simpler,
as
you
can
see.
B
As
you
probably
know,
right
in
high
College
of
fabric,
there
are
a
lot
of
things
like
order
POS,
and
then
there
are
a
lot
of
options
that
you
can
configure
right,
but
but
basically,
as
a
customer
right,
you
may
not
need
to
configure
all
of
those
options
up
front.
So
we
have
pick
the
most
important
things
which
are
meaningful
for
any
organization
and
any
use
case
and
basically
expose
those
of
those
as
options
to
start
with.
Of
course,
you
can
customize
things
as
you
go
along
and
change
things
right.
B
So,
for
example,
when
you
create
a
network,
basically
you
select
an
organization
as
the
organization
that
is
sort
of
creating
the
network,
and
then
you
can
invite
other
organizational
organizations
also
to
be
part
of
the
network.
I'll
just
give
a
name.
So
this
is
pretty
simple,
but
then
most
of
the
options
or
the
interesting
happen.
Things
happen
in
the
configuration
screen
right.
Yeah
we
provide
an
option
of
creating
a
network
in
a
shared
environment
or
a
dedicated.
B
The
fundamental
difference
is,
you
know,
in
a
dedicated
environment,
there's
a
lot
more
isolation
completely
at
the
at
the
infrastructure
level
like
where
the
servers
are
the
servers
that
host
the
nodes
or
the
kubernetes
Clusters.
That
host
the
notes,
and
even
the
network
through
which
you
know,
influence
right
so
dedicated
virtual
private
networks
and
things
like
that.
B
We
support
multiple
Cloud
regions,
so
this
is
our
test
environment,
so
you
only
see
coupled,
but
we
support
multiple
regions
across
if
f,
plus,
ews,
and
then
you
know
there
are
built-in
configurations
that
you
can
directly
deploy
like
I
can
say
that
you
know
if
I
want
to
support
like
around
20
requests
per
second
for
a
proof
of
concept,
then
I'll
create
a
small
Network
and
there
are
some
pre-configured
settings
which
apply
right.
So
this
is
where
I
was
saying.
Instead
of
going
and
individually
saying.
B
Okay
I
want
to
have
this
many
nodes.
This
many
size,
these
are
the
settings.
These
are
the
endorsement
policies.
These
are
so
on
and
so
forth.
Right
You
can
basically
select
a
pre-configured
configuration
and
then
deploy
it.
As
such,
there
is
an
advanced
mode
also
where
we
can.
You
can
basically
tweak
a
lot
of
those
settings
as
well.
So
that's
pretty
much
it
right.
As
you
can
see
once
you
do,
that
the
network
gets
sort
of
created
or
start
oops,
where
I
do
something
wrong.
B
Okay,
I
think
I
have
a
little
bit
of
problem
with
my
internet.
This
connection
is
not
stable,
so
what
I'll
do
is.
Let
me
go
back
and
show
you
an
actual
Network.
Okay,
so
I
think
it
actually
got
created,
but
maybe
the
network
is
switching
on
and
off
so
that's
pretty
much
it
right
which
got
created
and
then
then
things
start
happening
behind
the
scenes
where
the
actual
automation
starts
kicking
in.
B
So
if
I
look
at
the
one
of
the
existing
networks
right
that
we
have
created,
so
you
can
see
that
once
you
create
a
network
right
there
are,
you
can
actually
add
other
organizations
so
either
you
can
add
organizations
that
you
yourself
want
so
I
can
create
multiple
organizations
as
an
administrator
and
then
you
know
add
them
to
the
blockchain
network.
That's
one
way
of
doing
it
or
I
can
invite
someone
from
a
different
organization
right
by
providing
an
email
address
and
basically
inviting
them
right.
B
You
can
also
select
the
level
of
level
of
permissions
or
level
of
access
in
general
that
the
second
organization
will
get
to
the
same
network
that
you
are
inviting.
So
you
can
say
that
this
other
organization
is
a
network
admin
which
means
they
get
equal
rights
and
exactly
the
same
kind
of
Rights
on
the
network.
So
here
basically
we
are
talking
about
you
know,
or
the
kind
of
endorsement
policies
that
that
are
applied
and
whether
they,
the
if
the
other
organizations
in
network
admin
right,
so
they
can
literally
administer
the
network
completely.
B
They
can
also
so
deploy
order,
no
order
notes
into
the
network.
While
if
you
are
a
network
or
contributor
right,
then
you
cannot,
for
example,
deploy
order,
nodes
and
be
part
of
the
ordering
process.
And
similarly,
if
you're
a
network
contributor,
you
cannot
invite
other
organizations
so
basically
not
cannot
decide
who
else
who
else
to
who
else
gets
to
be
part
of
the
network
and
so
on
and
so
forth
right.
B
And
then,
of
course,
you
know,
once
you
have
an
infrastructure,
you
can
start
doing
more
granular
configurations
like
you
can
create
channels.
You
can
basically,
you
know,
add
or
modify
the
existing
nodes.
You
can
start
adding
applications
which
are
nothing
but
chain
code,
so
we
basically
provide
a
pre-configured
application,
also
which
I'll
talk
come
come
to
in
the
next
set
of
slides.
But
essentially
you
can
also
bring
your
own
application,
as
in
you
know
your
own
chain
Port.
So
we
support
node.js
and
golang
at
this
time.
B
So
you
can,
you
know,
create
the
application,
and
once
you
create
an
application,
you
can
add
different
versions
to
the
application
and
then,
basically,
you
can
deploy
an
application
on
a
particular
Channel
and
things
like
that
right.
So
the
typical
typical
chain
board
life
cycle
operations.
You
can
do
and
all
the
other
you
know
or
the
other
typical
operations
that
you
would
do
on
a
fabric.
Network
right
hyper
is
a
fabric.
Network!
B
That's
that's!
You
know,
that's
the
first
part
right,
which
is
more
about
automating.
The
infrastructure
side
of
things
also,
which
we
believe
is
you,
know
fundamental
to
any
to
to
running
any
blockchain,
Network
and
basically
productionizing
it
right
and
running
it
at
scale.
There
are,
you
know,
you'll,
have
to
monitor
the
network.
You'll
have
to
look
at
statistics
for
the
network.
B
You
know
things
like
that
right,
it's
a
lot
of,
and
you
know
if
you,
if
there's
something
wrong,
you
need
to
get
alerted,
and
you
know
a
lot
of
things
like
that
right.
So
so
you
need
a
platform
which
does
all
of
that
and
the
the
intention
of
Designing
our
platform
also
or
creating
our
platform
was
to
do
that
itself
right.
B
But
then
that's
not
where
you
know
things,
that's
not
everything
right
once
you
have
a
infrastructure
right.
The
question
is,
then:
what
right?
The
second
step
is
all
about
developing
smart
contents.
Now,
of
course,
you
can
develop
smart
contract.
You
can
start
writing
code
in
golang
node.js,
specifically
when
it
comes
to
hypology
fabric
or
Java.
You
know
whatever
language
you're
comfortable
with,
but
then
you
know,
let's
take
a
step
back
to
asset
tokenization
again
right
and
basically,
what
is
an
asset.
B
So
there's
a
lot
of
you
know
different
terminology
that
folks
use
right.
Of
course,
nfts
and
fungible
tokens
are
definitely
assets
which
everyone
is
familiar
familiar
with,
but
then
you
know
nfts
today
is
mostly
used
for
you
know
creating
a
so.
What
is
it
an
nft?
Really?
So
it's
if
you
look
at
it,
it's
really
an
object
with
a
unique
identifier
right
where
one
token
is
not
the
same
as
a
separate
as
a
different
token.
So
there
is
something
unique
between
these
two.
B
So
if
the
NFD
is
that
of
a
painting,
for
example,
painting
number
one
and
painting
number
two
has
something
unique
which
which
which
makes
them
different
right
so
think
of
it
like,
if
you
think
of
it
at
a
fundamental
level.
It's
an
object
with
a
unique
identifier
or
a
unique
property
right
is
what
an
nft
folks
talk
about.
B
Dynamic
nft,
which
is
more
about
saying
that,
okay,
you
know
nft
doesn't
have
to
be
constrained
only
you
know
something
with
the
URL
and
an
image
right
where
the
the
properties
of
any
the
nft
is
hosted
or
how
the
image
looks
like
or
a
video
or
or
you
know,
actual
some
object
of
the
actual
nft
right.
It
can
have
its
own
properties
right
so
in
in
a
traditional
sense.
B
B
B
B
Related
information,
patient
and
healthcare
related
information
in
a
standard
way,
so
that
different
participants
can
basically
consume
the
same
information
easily
right.
So,
as
you
can
see
right
here,
there
are
almost
150
different
types
of
objects
right
so
ranging
from
let's
say,
an
observation
which
is
basically
a
diagnosis
that
happens.
There
are
documents
or
diagnostic
reports
that
are
created.
There
is
definitely
you
know,
patient
it's
kind
of
difficult
to
find
in
this
yeah,
so
yeah
there
are
there's
a
specific
schema
for
patient
a
specific
scheme
for
insurance,
for
example.
B
So
insurance
plan
is
here
when
you
are
doing
a
claim
settlement.
How
a
claim
form
should
look
like
how
this
should
look
like
increasing
payments
right.
So
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
schemas
which
are
already
defined
and
literally,
if
you
are
talking
about
representing
all
of
this
in
the
blockchain
now,
of
course,
everything
did
not
go
into
the
blockchain,
but
at
least
a
lot
of
lot
of
the
information
needs
to
go
into
the
blockchain
if
we
are
to
really
solve
the
insurance
claim
settlement
use
case
in
the
healthcare
industry.
B
A
B
Okay,
yeah,
okay,
sorry,
yeah,
okay,
so
yeah.
So
what
I
was
saying
was
that
these
are
the
kind
of
assets
that
need
to
go
into
the
blockchain
right.
So
that's
where
you
know
mostly
what
and
mostly
then
in
today's
world,
right
you'll
have
to
start
writing
code
to
do
all
of
that
right,
unlike
even
in
any
other
blockchain.
There
is
no
concept
of
a
table
or
you
know
a
collection
or
whatever
you
call
it.
B
So
then,
you
have
to
start
defining
permissions
and
all
of
that
right,
of
course,
you
can
write
J
input
to
do
all
of
that,
but
there's
a
lot
of
complexity
that
comes
into
it
right,
so
this
is
kind
of
an
asset
model.
This
is
a
very
simplified
asset
model.
They
come
up
with.
Just
for
this
demo,
let's
say:
there's
a
patient
right
and
patient
visits,
a
hospital
there's
an
insurance
plan
that
the
patient
has
they
perform.
The
doctor
performs
a
diagnosis
which
is
an
observation.
B
B
B
B
B
B
So
things
like
that
and
then
you
can
also
Define
permissions
right
like
in
this
case.
We
are
saying
that
the
hospital
can
actually
create
earlier
update
and
delete
the
patient
records.
They
can
do
everything
with
observation
procedures,
but
insurance
plan
they
can
only
read
Because
insurance
plan
is
actually
created
by
the
insurer
right
and
there's
a
hospital
or
sorry,
the
third
party
administrator.
We
who
can
also
read
a
lot
of
this
information
because
they,
you
know
they
are
in
the
middle
of
facility,
facilitating
the
plane
settlement
process.
B
So
you
you
do
all
of
that,
and
then
you,
you
know,
deploy
the
application
and
what
you
get
after.
This
right
is
a
set
of
rest,
apis
and
graphql
apis.
So
this
is
where
you
know
the
third
step
right
once
you.
So
what
this
does
right
once
you
create
the
application
and
the
settings,
is
it
basically
deploys
a
smart
contract
behind
the
scenes
right
and
once
it's
not
contract
is
deployed.
B
The
Next,
Step,
obviously
is
to
be,
as
I
was
saying
was-
is
to
integrate
your
existing
applications
into
the
blockchain.
So,
of
course,
I
apologize
fabric
itself
provides
a
grpc
interface
and
basically
you
can
actually
integrate
with
it,
and
you
can
there
is
you
can
use
certificates
and
all
that
for
signing
the
transactions
and
all
of
that
right,
but
that's
a
bit
difficult
to
use.
B
First
of
all
right,
even
if
you're
using
a
custom,
your
custom
application,
but
then
what
if
we
are
talking
about
integrating
into
an
existing
erpm,
that
a
customer
has
right,
for
example,
in
supply
chain
industry,
many
customers
would
have
sap
or
Dynamics,
and
things
like
that
right.
So
integrating
your
systems.
B
So,
of
course,
there
are
a
lot
of
operations
where
you
can
use
to
create
get
update,
delete
assets
right,
but
what
we
also
provide
is
a
little
bit
more,
which
way
of
doing
things
like
when
you
get
an
asset.
I'll
talk
about
references
and
resolving
that
we
also
provide
ways
for
changing
ownership.
We
also
provide
Advanced
operations
on
changing
ownership
like
instead
of
directly
changing
ownership.
Somebody
can
request
for
change
of
ownership,
and
then
the
ownership
gets
changed
and
things
like
that
so
really
diving
into.
B
B
Sorry
about
that,
okay,
so
where
we
believe
that
you
know
there's
a
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
for
improvement
right
and
where
in
the
real
value
comes
in.
So
basically,
if
you,
if
you
look
at
this
right,
this
is
basically
a
claim
right.
So
a
claim
has,
as
you
can
see,
it's
a
very
it's
an
extensive
Json
structure.
B
So
the
way
that
we
have
modeled
our
platform
is
that
anybody
can,
basically,
you
know,
create
an
asset
using
the
rest
apis
and
only
mandatory
field
is
the
primary
key
that
that
that
has
been
defined
right.
Everything
else
is
sort
of
optional
right,
as
in
or
you
know,
extensible,
so
you
can
bring
in
your
own
Json
structure
all
the
way
as
you
want,
and
basically
this
is
completely
extensible
right.
So
this
is
whatever
exists
in
the
existing
system,
and
this
is
based
on
fhir
standards.
B
So
you
can
see
that
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
attributes
that
that
belong
to
a
claim
right,
but
fundamentally,
if
you
see
claim,
has
belongs
to
a
has
details
about
a
patient
in
details
about
an
insurance
and
these
themselves
are
different
assets
in
their
own
right
right.
So
what
we've
basically
done
is
that
when
we
get
a
claim
right
so
let's
say
I'm
getting
this
claim
so
at
that
time
right
what
happens
is
if
you
see
the
result
right,
the
the
when
I
created
a
claim
right.
B
All
that
it
has
is
it
says
that
it
belongs
to
this
particular
patient
right,
and
this
is
the
diagnosis
and
the
diagnosis
ID
or
the
observation
ID.
But
if
I
look
at
the
get
part
of
it
when
I
get
the
same
claim
within
diagnosis,
this
is
a
diagnosis
ID,
but
we
automatically
expand
the
observation
right
with
the
actual
data
from
the
observation.
So
why
do
we
do
that
querying
the
blockchain
is
basically
not
a
very
easy
or
it's
not
as
performant
as
a
regular
database
right.
B
So
if
you
have
to
do
multiple
queries,
it's
it
slows
down
the
system
a
bit.
So
we
have
developed
a
system
where
you
can
actually
get
the
get
an
asset
with
all
the
referenced
information.
So,
for
example,
if
I
look
at
a
more
more
complex
case
here,
there
is
a
procedure
right
that
the
the
patient
went
through,
so
the
procedure
hasn't
has
a
part
of
which
basically
points
to
an
observation.
So
the
observation
itself
is
expanded
and
the
observation
actually
has
a
subject
which
points
to
a
patient.
B
So
the
patient
is
fully
expanded
here
and
then
you
know
the
policies
that
belong
to
a
patient
and
the
policies
are
also
expanded.
So
you
can
get
everything
in
one
one
call.
Basically
that's
one
thing
you
know
which
we
have
found
very
useful.
The
querying
part
of
it
right
when
you
have
to
vary
multiple
objects
and
get
it
out
of
the
system.
B
The.
Of
course,
you
can
get
a
history
about
a
claim
right,
so
we
have
apis
for
that
which
will
give
you
the
entire
claim
and
the
history
of
when
it
was
created
when
it
was
approved,
for
example,
in
this
case
right
in
this
case,
the
claim
was,
there
are
three
records
for
the
claim
it
was
created
by
this
organization.
So
we
add
a
lot
of
metadata
automatically,
which
tells
you
a
lot
of
information
about
who
the
owner
is,
who,
when
it
was
created,
updated
so
on
and
so
forth.
B
It
was
created
by
this
organization,
which
is
the
hospital,
and
then
eventually,
it
was
approved
that
the
it
was
approved.
The
claim
status
was
approved
by
a
different
organization,
which
is
a
TPA
in
this
case
right.
What
we
also
do
provide
apart
from
the
regular
rest,
API
interface,
is
a
graphql
phase.
So
basically
graphql
is
a
way
of
querying
is
a
you
know,
is
a
is
a
very
popular
way
of
representing
query
kind
of
language
over
the
over
rest
or
HTTP
interface
right.
B
So
basically,
what
we
have
done
is
we
have
done
some
engineering
on
top
of
hyperledger
fabric
and
specifically
when
coach
TV
is
the
back
end
right.
So
we
we
basically
support
a
graphql
interface
where
we,
where
you
can
basically
write
graphql
queries,
which
eventually
gets
transformed
into
Laos
DB
Rich
queries,
and
then
the
information
is
sent
back
the
way.
So
so
using
this
right,
you
can
actually
write
a
query,
any
assets
in
a
much
more
Rich
fashion,
for
example
right
in
this
particular
case.
B
If
you
want
to
get
all
the
claims
that
are
pending
right,
you
can
say
that
okay
get
the
get
me
all
the
claims
where
approval
status
is
pending
and
get
me
these
attributes
of
that
right.
So,
basically,
when
it
there
are
four
four
planes
which
are
pending,
and
these
are
the
attributes
of
that
right
or
something
more
complex
way.
You
know
get
me
all
the
claim
where
there's
a
particular
type
of
claim
and
the
code
is
831
or
832.
B
So
the
code,
basically
in
this
particular
case,
tells
you
what
kind
of
what
kind
of
proceed
procedure
was
done
right
in
this
case
it
says:
Hospital,
outpatient
surgery
performed
right.
Something
like
that.
So
I
want
to
get
that
kind
of
an
information.
So
you
can
see
that
I'm
getting
a
complex
query,
which
does
all
of
that.
So
that's
what
we
have
done
with
graphql,
which
basically
you
know,
and
it's
all
all
about
making
that
integration
easier.
If
you
think
about
it
right
what
it
actually
does
right.
B
You
get
a
framework
where
you
can
actually
Define
and
do
things
yourself,
and
then
you
know
you
can
basically
query
stuff
out
and
get
stuff
out
in
a
very
rich
and
rich
and
easy
manner
right.
So
this
is
what
how
graphql
Works.
Basically,
we
convert
graphql
query
into
accounts
to
be
rich
query
and
then
Parts
it
and
pass
a
response
and
give
it
back
in
a
graphql
format
yeah.
B
So
we
have
a
graphical
engine
which
does
that
there's
also
a
concept
of
event
listeners
where
you
know
it's
all
about
listening
to
listening
to
events
that
happen
in
the
blockchain
and
so
that
you
can
react
to
those
events
in
on
on
your
system
right.
So
we
provide
a
way
to
listen
to
those
events.
Have
those
events
delivered
to
a
web
hook
or
a
websocket?
And
then
you
can
filter
the
events
that
you
want
to
be
delivered
with,
whether
you
know
it's
something:
got
added,
updated
or
approved.
B
B
What
we
also
provide
is
a
or
some
additional
Integrations,
and
we
believe
you
know,
integration
of
the
blockchain
system,
with
with
existing
ecosystem
or
applications,
is
really
the
key
for
adoption
right
and
that's
where
we
actually
have
gone
beyond
just
exposing
apis
but
providing
Integrations,
which,
which
are
really
no
code
Solutions,
which
can
directly
integrate
with
the
existing
customer
ecosystems
and
the
way
that
we
have
done.
It
is
by
actually
using
some
of
the
existing
workflow
automation
platforms.
If
you
are
aware,
like
zapier,
is
there
power
automate?
B
Is
there
so
we
have
created
connectors,
which
can
be
you
know,
used
fit
along
with
zapier
or
power
automate
and
I'm?
Basically,
you
can
do
something
like
you
know
once
when
something,
when
a
record
is
added
into
sap,
a
particular
type
of
entities
added
that
will
trigger
a
workflow
in
jpr,
which
will
basically
call
the
Spicer
apis
and
create
that
asset
in
the
blockchain.
So
you
don't
have
to
write
any
any
code
for
that
or
similarly,
you
know
even
to
the
level
of
once.
B
When
you
add
a
record
in
a
CSV
or
an
Excel
sheet,
then
create
a
recorder
update
report
on
the
blockchain,
or
vice
versa.
When
so,
when
something
gets
created
in
the
blockchain,
then
then
that
event
gets
sent
to
zapier
or
power
automate
and
then
based
on
that
you
can
put
it
into
a
database,
for
example,
and
things
like
that,
all
of
that
without
any
any
coding
required
as
such,
and
we
believe
you
know
this
kind
of
integration
is
what
will
make
it
very
easy
for
blockchain
to
be
adopted
in
typical
Enterprise
use
cases.
B
Of
course,
you
know
you
can
also
write
your
own
code
as
I
was
showing,
but
some
of
the
innovations
that
we
have
done
in
that
space
is
even
with
your
own
custom
chain.
Port
you
get
very
similar
functionalities.
You
can
invoke
your
query
or
custom
chain
Port
methods
using
a
rest
API.
You
can
actually
query
using
graphql
in
your
graphql
as
well,
and
you
can,
you
know,
add
the
event
listeners
or
you
know,
use
the
listener
functionality
with
your
own
chain
board
as
well.
B
Last,
but
not
the
least.
What
we
have
also
done
is
you
know,
if
you're,
if
you're
anywhere
using
your
own
custom
chain
code
or
writing
your
own
custom
change
code,
there
is
no
easy
way
to
debug
code
from
an
IDE
currently
like
from
a
visual
studio
code
or
any
other
ID
that
you
are
using.
So
we
have
actually
published
a
vs
code
extension
which
makes
it
easy
for
for
debugging
applications
right
from
within
Visual
Studio
code.
So
the
way
that
works
is
right.
You
just
have
to
install
the
extension.
B
You
basically
so
basically
provide
some
configurations
to
say
that
this
is
the
debugger
that
you
want
to
invoke,
and
basically
just
you
know,
start
debugging
the
code
right
from
within
Visual
Studio
code,
and
then
you
can
also
submit
requests.
So
in
you
can
invoke
methods
in
your
chain
board
right
from
within
Visual
Studio
code.
You
can
invoke
a
transaction
or
query,
query,
send
the
query
and
then
you
can
get
back
the
results
and
the
debugger
you
can,
you
know,
create
breakpoints
within
within
the
debugger,
and
the
debugger
will
be.
The
break.
B
B
Thanks
thanks
everyone
for
joining.
If
there
are
any
questions,
I
think
I
didn't
get
a
chance
to
look
at
the
chat.
But
if
there
are
any
questions,
I
can
take
that
feel
free
to
stay
back.
You
know
whoever
wants
to
have
any
questions
or
if
you
want
to
ask
ask
something,
feel
free
to
unmute
and
ask
yeah.
A
D
B
Sure
sure
so,
I
think
it
really
all
depends
on.
You
know
what
you're
trying
to
do
right,
if,
if
there
are
a
lot
of
use
cases,
you
know
where,
where
the
data
that
you
are
with
the
assets
that
you
want
to
talk,
talk
nice
yeah,
you
don't
necessarily
necessarily
don't
want
to.
No
don't
want
to
put
it
in
a
public
blockchain
like
if
I
talk
about
an
asset.
Sorry
a
supply
chain
use
case,
for
example.
B
A
Yeah
so
I
agree
so
for
other,
like
even
if
you
read
nowadays
or
maybe
go
to
any
web
clear
and
blockchain
events,
you
must
be
seeing
everyone
is
talking
about
in
building
tokenization,
with
different
different
framework
and
recent
like
say
we
calculation
about
critics
of
regulatory
framework
around
it
fractional
ownership
of
real
estate.
So
even
if
you
read
today's
Economic
Times,
you
know
still
mentioned,
like
technical
ownership
of
holidays.
D
A
B
Yeah,
so
so
yeah,
so
we
have
done
some
work
also,
but
I
think
you
know
in
sort
of
answering
the
larger
question
right,
not
necessarily
wallet.
Integration
is
about
money
or
you
know
cryptocurrency.
It
could
also
be.
You
know,
for
example,
an
asset
that
you
own
right.
It
could
be
a
real
estate
asset,
for
example,
right
when
you
yeah
anything
that
you
own
can
actually
go
into
a
wallet
but
I
think
in
an
Enterprise
case,
use
case
scenario,
right,
I,
think
the
question
is
more
around.
B
Who
are
the
participants
in
the
network
right?
Are
they
end
users
who
are
in
the
participants
in
the
network?
Then?
Yes,
absolutely,
it
makes
sense
to
basically
whatever
you're
issuing
a
token
or
asset
or
nft
goes
into
the
wallet
of
the
user,
but
in
a
lot
of
cases
right,
the
participants
are
organizations
like
in
the
insurance
use
case.
B
I
was
talking
about,
and
insurance
is
an
asset
which
is
owned
by
the
insurance
company
right,
in
this
case,
of
course,
it's
actually
issue
to
a
user,
but
in
the
use
case
it's
the
insurance
company
that
has
to
do
something
with
it.
So,
in
that
case,
the
wallet
sort
of
is
owned
by
the
organization
and
not
really
by
the
end
users.
I
think
that's
where
you
need
to
look
at
what
is
the
actual
use
case
and
where
the
asset
should
actually
be
owned
and
which
wallet
it
should
go
into
right.