►
From YouTube: Blockchain Job Market: How To Fill Your Pipeline
Description
A virtual meetup hosted by Hyperledger Princeton on July 29, 2021. The event is part of the Blockchain Employment series and features a panel discussion covering the following topics:
* The demand for blockchain related skills and roles
* How companies define roles and opportunities
* How candidates can build their skills, brand for roles
* How candidates find companies
* How companies find candidates
* How the hiring process is managed
* Tips for the first 90 days on a new team.
More about the event is at: https://www.meetup.com/Hyperledger-Princeton/events/279722655/
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
Webinars: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/webinars
Events: https://www.hyperledger.org/events
Vendor Directory: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/vendor-directory
Subscribe to the Hyperledger Newsletter: https://www.hyperledger.org/newsletter
Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
#Hyperledger #Blockchain
A
Good
to
go-
and
let
me
so
david
you're
recording
right.
This
is
now
streaming
on
youtube.
Yes,
you're
live
and
recording.
Okay,
all
right!
I
can
record
it
here.
Oh
no,
that's
all
right!
You're,
recording
it,
I'm
good!
Okay.
So
I
want
to
welcome
everybody
to
the
blockchain
employee
summer
2021
series
that
has
been
sponsored
by
the
hyperledger
project
and
the
linux
foundation,
and
so
what
we've
been
doing
is
trying
to
basically
offer
sort
of
an
on-ramp
for
people
to
understand
about
how
to
find
a
career.
A
If
you
will
in
blockchain
specifically
a
little
bit
so
there's
plenty
of
technical
careers
out
there
and
it
we
thought
it
would
be
helpful
and
actually
I'll
give
bobby
mascara
credit
she's,
the
one
that
invented
alcohol,
the
entire
concept
of
this
so
bobby.
Do
you
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
before
we
get
to
the
panel.
A
B
B
B
B
Okay,
so
the
agenda
for
today
we're
going
to
go
into
jim's,
going
to
run
a
panel
discussion
and
we
have
three
panelists
gary
singe
ben
townsend
and
brian
nelson,
who
will
talk
to
us
today.
We
have
certain
questions
to
pose
to
them
about
hiring
practices
in
the
blockchain
arena
and
then
we'll
open
it
up
for
questions
and
answers,
and
if
we
have
time
we'll
go
through
just
some
hiring
plans.
That
corporations
should
think
about
implementing
before
starting
to
hire
for
blockchain.
A
Thank
you
very
much
bobby,
so
let
me
flip
to
a
I'll
call
it
my
deck,
give
me
one
second
here
it
is,
and
let
me
go
back
to
slideshow
again
here
we
go
so
tonight.
We
want
to
talk
about
what,
in
a
sense
the
I'll
call
it.
The
employer
perspective
is
in
the
blockchain
job
market
in
general,
so
the
focus
is
there
I'm
lucky
enough
to
have
three
excellent
panelists
with
me
tonight,
and
I've
got
in
the
presentation.
A
You'll
get
a
copy
of
this
we'll
we'll
post
a
pdf
file
along
with
the
reporting
plus.
The
reporting
will
also
be
up
on
youtube,
but
you
can
read
obviously
the
descriptions
here.
What
I'd
rather
do
is
just
introduce
the
panels.
Let
them
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
themselves
before
we
kick
off
the
discussion
so
gary.
A
C
Yeah
sure,
thanks
jim
so
yeah,
I
guess
gary
saying
I
mean
in
the
in
the
blockchain
space
I
spent
five
years.
I
guess
at
ibm
leading
kind
of
blockchain
development
there
we
had
hyperledger
fabric,
obviously
as
a
core
core
contribution
that
we
that
we
started
way
back
when
with
the
linux
foundation.
And
yes,
I
did
that
and
did
the
open
source.
I
still
still
am
part
of
open
source,
my
job
there.
I
ran
all
of
by
the
end
of
the
time.
C
A
Cool
awesome,
that's
great
background
and
you
said
earlier
when
we
were
talking
that
you've
been
on
both
sides
of
the
fence,
so
you
just
recently
you
transferred
over
to
google.
So
you
went
through
that
hiring
process
and,
as
you
said
before,
you've
done
a
lot
of
hiring
in
the
past
as
well
excellent
ben.
Can
I
have
you
introduce
yourself
to
the
audience
absolutely.
D
D
I've
been
recruiting
it
for
10
years
solely
in
the
development
space,
but
in
the
last
two
years,
specifically
solely
within
within
the
blockchain
space
of
you
know,
building
building
and
development
teams
from
scratch,
but
also
working
with
sort
of
startups
and
smes
as
well
just
on
sort
of
one-off,
one-off
developers,
and
you
know,
and
assisting
them
with
their
projects
but
yeah
nice
to
meet
you
all
and
looking
forward
to
to
talk
for
everyone.
Answering
your
questions.
E
Yeah
sure,
thanks
jim
hello,
everyone,
I
am
a
currently
a
technical
recruiter
at
an
agency,
so
we
help
about
60
different
companies
here
in
the
pacific
northwest
with
their
recruiting
efforts.
Prior
to
that,
I
was
recruiting
in-house
corporate
recruiter
for
a
startup
here
in
seattle,
and
that's
where
I
kind
of
got
my
start,
but
I
really
enjoy
what
I'm
doing
now,
because
I
get
to
work
on
all
technologically
sound
jobs
from
front
end.
A
Cool
all
right
and
then,
although
bobby
already
introduced
herself,
I'm
going
to
pick
on
her
anyway,
because
I'm
accidentally
forcing
her
to
be
on
our
panel
as
well
for
commentary.
I
know
she's
done
a
lot
of
research
on
the
job
market
as
well,
and
I
think
she
has
a
lot
to
bring
to
the
table
so
welcome
bobby
to
the
panel
surprise.
A
C
Yeah
I'd
say
it's
probably
on
the
cusp
of
it's
not
as
obvious.
Sometimes
I
think,
but
it's
probably
growing-
maybe
steady,
but
maybe
fast,
I'm
sure
some
of
the
recruiters
will
be
better
better
off
than
me
on.
You
know
telling
the
exact
rate
of
how
many
folks
that
there
are
on
there,
but
I
think,
there's
a
wide
variety
of
there's
a
wide
spectrum
of
stuff
right.
There's,
there's,
definitely
developers
right,
there's
been
a
lot
of
focus
on
you
know
in
on
the
consulting
and
services
business
right.
C
All
of
them
are
generally
been
hiring.
I
mean
you
can
find
a
ton
of
jobs
there.
I
think
you've
got
other
stuff
in
this
space
right
that
people
think
of
as
blockchain
right
but
like
coinbase,
right,
big
hiring
right.
You
know
other
companies
that
are
out
there,
like
companies
like
security
and
whatever
all
are
all
hiring
and
you'll,
also
see.
I
think,
you'll
see
in-house
right.
You
can
find
in-house
jobs
right,
you
saw
jpmc
right
was
hiring
starting
up
stuff,
so
I
say:
there's
you
know
plenty
of
them
from
a
development
perspective.
C
Also,
there's
you
know
you
can
find
companies
that
are
blockchain
doing
blockchain
stuff
that
are
actually
looking
for
normal
development,
devops
running
cloud,
that
type
of
stuff
as
well
right,
so
you'll
see
that
across
the
board.
So
I'd
say
it's
you
know,
definitely
a
you
know
growing
market.
I
guess
I
would
say.
D
Absolutely
I
think
the
demand
is
is
very,
very
high.
You
know
in
the
blockchain
space
sort
of
in
general
that
the
roles
that
I've
sort
of
been
working
recently
and
the
clients
I've
been
partnering
up
with
a
lot
of
it
is
smart
contract
focused
at
the
minute,
decentralized,
finance
and
applications
a
lot
of
stuff
with
hyper
ledger
as
well
and
I'll
be
honest.
D
You
know
if
he
was
to
go
on
linkedin
recruiter,
which
is
obviously
a
tool
that
we
use
as
as
recruiters
if
he
was
just
to
go
across
the
whole
of
the
usa
and
just
use
the
term
blockchain
developer.
Now,
that's
obviously
you
know
that's
not
the
the
finite
number,
because
the
software
engineer
software
developers,
but
if
you
used
to
just
look
at
blockchain
developer
across
the
us,
it
only
brings
up
about
2000
candidates
who
solely
market
themselves
as
blockchain
developers,
which
gives
you
an
idea.
D
Obviously
it's
a
very,
very
candidate,
short
market,
but
that's
obviously
not
to
say
that
that's.
That
is
the
the
bill
and
endl
of
it,
because
there
is
a
lot
of
developers
that
have
dabbled
in
certain
parts
of
blockchain
who
don't
market
themselves.
Like
that,
but
just
to
give
you
an
overview
across
the
whole
of
the
us
2
000
candidates
that
are
solely
marketing
themselves
as
blockchain
developers.
It
gives
an
idea
of
the
sort
of
supply
and
demand
that
we're
dealing
with.
A
D
D
E
I
am
probably
in
a
I
mean
it's
a
small
market
right,
because
I
work
for
one
boutique
firm
here
in
seattle.
A
lot
of
the
roles
just
give
you
an
idea
in
the
past
six
months,
a
lot
of
the
roles
that
we
focus
on
I've
seen
two
that
involve
blockchain
and
it
wasn't
purely
blockchain.
It
was
like
okay,
they
have
to
have
blockchain
and
security
and
crypto
you
know,
or
and
fintech
or
something
else.
E
So
it
was
all
these
groupings,
so
it's
very
challenging
to
find
candidates
a
lot
of
stuff
we
do
up
here
because
we
are
pacific.
Northwest
central
is
more
just
full
stack,
front-end,
back-end,
ux
design
very
specialized
skills
where
they
maybe
need
to
know
up
to
maybe
three
languages,
and
then
I
get
a
very
broad
search.
But
when
I
dive
into
this
to
the
blockchain,
I
get
a
very
narrow
search.
A
B
Well,
I've
been
monitoring
a
lot
of
the
sites
that
offer
or
looking
for
applicants,
and
I
would
have
to
say,
accenture
consensus,
hyperledger
and
a
lot
of
aws
have
been
posting
enormous
amounts
of
jobs
weekly.
I
mean
at
least
20
to
25
brand
new
jobs
every
week
for
those
like
heavy
hitting
companies,
so
the
demand
is
is
growing
enormously.
I
mean
for
for
just
that
kind
of
turnover
for
new
jobs.
B
A
Well,
yeah,
thank
you
for
trying
to
keep
it
current,
which
I
realize
is
an
impossible
task
and
if
they
have
things
like
rss
feeds,
something
like
that
or
apis.
That
would
always
help
to
get
the
postings,
but
you're
right.
There's
many
places
there.
My
next
question
is
back
more
to
the
company
side
and
I'm
going
to
ask:
how
do
companies
define
their
needs?
A
Blockchain
is
one
thing,
but
just
in
general,
it
can
apply
to
any
kind
of
a
technical
role
with
in
a
sense,
my
panelists.
How
are
they
defining
what
their
staffing
roles
and
opportunities
are?
How
do
they
decide
whether
it's
a
full-time
or
a
contract
that
person
that
should
be
filling
a
role
gary
any
thoughts
on
your
own.
C
C
C
I
I
see
them
because
I
get
offered
them
a
lot,
but
so
there's
a
linkedin,
but
I
think
in
general
right
when
we
were,
you
know,
if
you
look
at
the
the
bigger
ones
right,
I
think
things
you
know
span
a
couple
of
things
on
the
development
side.
You
know
definitely,
as
bobby
said
right.
All
those
companies
are
looking
for.
You
know
full-time.
I
think
the
roles
are
generally.
You
know.
I
think
many
of
the
consultancies
have
gone.
C
There's
operating
it,
there's
running
and
managing
maintaining
it
so
I'd,
say:
you'd
see,
you'll,
see
all
those
you
know
types
of
types
of
roles
right
at
companies
that
are
out
there
and
then
yeah.
It
just
depends
on
whether
it's
you
know
an
enterprise
itself,
probably
looking
more
like
smart
contract
stuff,
the
ibms
and
accentures
looking
for
full
stack,
blockchain,
stuff,
aws
looking
for
developers
right,
so
that's
kind
of
the
variance.
A
Yeah
a
good
point,
though
you're
right,
because
there
are
some
blockchain
apps
that
are
I'll
call.
It
heavily
blocked
channels
say
where
that's
the
primary
focus,
but
a
lot
of
the
apps
you're
right
are
having
all
kinds
of
other
services
plugged
in
not
just
ai
or
device
integration,
but
other
types
of
things:
mapping:
services
messaging.
A
C
I
just
said
that
we
were
looking
just
as
a
thing.
You
know
the
jobs
that
we
hired
for
right
when
we
were
running
fabric
and
blockchain
as
a
service.
Right
I
mean
we.
We
were
also
looking
for
skills
in
those
sort
of
languages
too
right
that
were
out
there
right.
When
we
were
looking
for
specific
things
right,
we
were
looking
for
people
who
that
we
thought
had
a
way
of
thinking
right.
So
can
you
show
what
kind
of
projects
you
worked
on
and
what
was
your
method
of
thinking?
Were
you
skilled?
C
In
you
know,
I
could
take
a
go
programmer
and
you
know
make
them.
You
know
we
needed
some
people
who
could
do
that.
We
needed
people
on
kubernetes.
You
know,
for
example,
because
that's
what
we
were
running
on
so
we
had.
You
know
various
roles
you
know
like
like
that.
I
don't
think
that
we,
ironically,
even
though
we
were
working
on
hyperledger
fabric,
we
never
actually
on
my
team.
We
never
defined
like
hyperledger
fabric.
You
know
developers
right
or
something
like
that.
C
A
Or
whatever
right,
yep
yep,
that
makes
sense
yeah.
That's
an
interesting
perspective,
though,
because
you're
right,
you're,
saying
that
the
in
a
sense
the
people
you
want
on
the
team
are
probably
I'll
call
it
skill
motivated,
intelligent
but
they're
skilled
utility
players
that
probably
can
play
lots
of
roles
where,
when
you're
going
with
the
contract
side,
you're
saying
I
got
a
real
need
right
here
right
now
boom
you
know
show
me
that
you
can
address
that,
need
specifically
jump
in
and
fill
a
gap,
quickly
kind
of
a
thing
which
is
different.
D
Yeah
I'll
be
honest,
I
can
echo
what
gary
was
saying
a
little
bit
there,
some
some
sort
of
out
and
out
developers
who
maybe
don't
have
any
experience
in
in
blockchain.
But
if
there's
a
blockchain
developer
in-house
a
lot
of
companies
will
look
at
talented
developers.
You
know
java
go
c
plus,
plus
rust
is
being
used.
You
know
a
vast
amount
at
the
minute
and
you
know
that's
obviously
some
advice
that
we're
giving
to
clients.
D
It
is
a
very
candid
short
market,
it's
very
candidate-led,
very
candidate-driven,
and
if
you
do
want
to
bulk
up
and
strengthen
your
permanent
team,
then
that's
obviously
the
rule
that
we
can
go
down
as
well.
If
the
skills
aren't
necessarily
there.
Having
said
that,
if
it
isn't,
you
know
a
company
a
bit
of
a
startup,
that's
got
some
funding,
you
know,
they've
got
the
idea.
They've
got
the
they've
got
the
money
there.
Now
then
sort
of
nine
times
out
of
ten
is
going
to
be
a
contractor.
That's
that's
gonna!
D
E
A
E
Yes,
so
actually
there's
a
stage
that
we
do
before
we
hit
contract
or
contract
to
hire
and
a
lot
of
companies
when
they
say
I
want
full
time
they
also
say
I
want
someone
in
the
area
that
can
potentially
come
into
the
office
on
a
hybrid
work
model.
If
that's
not
working,
then
we
need
to
broaden
our
search.
So
then
we'll
say
what
about
a
remote
person
full
time.
So
that
would
be
step
two
then,
as
as
a
third
step,
it
would
be
open,
let's
open
it
up
to
contract
a
higher
slash
contract.
A
So
now
I
want
to
ask
you
guys
to
flip
perspective
and
now
you're
a
candidate
and,
if
you're,
giving
advice
to
a
candidate
and
obviously
we're
covering
more
than
one
type
of
role,
developers,
one
role
but,
as
gary
said,
there's
many
roles
here
that
need
to
get
filled
typically
on
any
kind
of
a
blockchain
project,
because
blockchain's
a
piece
of
it,
but
how
any
thoughts
on
how
candidates
in
a
sense
can
improve
their
I'll
call
it
attractiveness
to
employers
in
terms
of
skills,
branding
training.
Any
of
that
stuff.
C
Sure
so
the
brand
one
is
interesting.
I
I
guess
I
guess
you
know.
If
you
haven't
worked,
you
know
it's,
you
know
in
a
growing
market
right,
it's
hard
to
say
you
know
it's
hard
to
be
like
what
was
your
experience
on
blockchain
right,
it's
kind
of
like
there
was
a
joke
that
there
was
a
job
ad
by
some
company.
That
said,
they
needed
somebody
who
had
15
years
of
experience
on,
say,
kubernetes
right
kubernetes.
C
You
couldn't
possibly
have
15
years
the
company,
but
it
was
a
mistake,
but
you
know,
but
somebody
applied
right
and
I
think
you
saw
that
aws
joke
right
on
their
product,
that
the
made-up
product
right
that
they
did
right
and
people
they
put
it
as
a
skill.
So
but
I
think
on
the
brand
side
right
things
like
hyper
ledger
right,
you
know
communities
right
if
you're,
if
you're
working
in
those
type
of
communities
right
you're
gonna,
be
you
know,
people
will
see
you
there,
but
it
also
just
works.
C
As
you
know,
we
looked
at
it
right,
but
you
know:
did
you
contribute
to
open
source
right?
Because
it's
obviously
the
easiest
way
for
us
from
a
coding
perspective
to
not
give
you
a
coding
test,
but
just
see
what
you've
done
see.
What
your
motivation
is
right
were
you
kind
of
a
self-starter,
so
I
think
that's
sort
of
on
the
you
know
on
the
development
side.
C
I
think
the
other
thing
is,
though
I
think
in
in
in
the
space
right
is
to
you
know
if
you're
not
on
the
technical
side
right,
I
think
it's
but
getting
a
oh.
I
guess
I
would
say
on
the
technical
side
too,
you
don't
have
to
learn
other
every
product
per
se.
I
think
what
you
need
to
figure
out
to
have
an
educated
discussion
with
people
is
the
basics
of
how
the
how
the
technology
itself
works
right.
C
I
don't
think
you
have
to
be
sort
of
hands-on
with
it,
but
there's
different
models
right
fabric
has
a
model.
You
know,
sawtooth
had
a
model,
there
there's
commonalities
between
them,
but
they
all
have
sort
of
different
ways.
You
know
why
would
people
best
who
has
a
different
sort
of
model
as
ethereum,
based
so
kind
of
like
getting
your
heads
around?
That,
I
think
is
you
know,
is
important
right
just
to
kind
of
understand
the
range
of
things
and
why
you
might
apply
those
technologies,
and
then
I
guess
the
so.
C
C
Expertise
might
be
right,
because
I
think,
in
a
lot
of
ways,
right,
you'll
start
seeing
those
pop
up
in
various
companies,
whether
it's
supply
chain,
financial
services
et
cetera,
right,
and
you
can
see
a
lot
of
this
stuff
on
the
sigs
on
hyper
ledger
of
different
ideas
that
are
out
there.
But
I
think
if
you
start
to
have
you
know
that
right
then
you
have
the
domain
expertise
plus
you
can
apply.
You
know
blockchain
your
sort
of
new
thinking,
so
that's
how
I
would
kind
of
build
up
my
thought
of
mine.
You
know.
A
That's
a
huge
point,
though
I
think
you're
right
that
when
you're
trying
to
figure
out
I'm
looking
at
job
descriptions,
if
you
say
that
yeah
I
understand
the
technology,
I
have
experience
if
you
will
delivering
software
products
or
projects
successfully.
I
understand
what
success
looks
like
and
then
to
your
point,
if
you
say
wait
a
minute,
I
have
a
couple
years
of
domain
experience
in
something.
A
D
Yeah,
I
think
you
know
sort
of
getting
yourself
immersed
in
as
much
training
or
accreditations,
as
you
possibly
can
is,
is
always
going
to
help
and
be
a
benefit
if
you've
got
any
sort
of
personal
or
passion
projects
that
you've
done
to
to
get
those
out
there
as
well
promote
those
on
linkedin,
any
linkedin
forums.
Any
other
groups
and
expect,
like
I
said,
get
yourself
out
there
in
in
the
market
come
on.
D
You
know
come
on
to
sort
of
panels
like
this,
and
you
know
just
get
yourself
out
there
as
as
much
as
you
can,
and
you
know
the
more
the
more
you
immerse
yourself
in
the
market
and
and
the
more
you
network.
You
know
the
an
opportunity
will
present
itself
at
some
point,
even
without
the
experience
I
believe.
E
E
So
what
I'll
typically
ask
candidates
is
tell
me
about
what
project
that
you
were
working
on
and
how
did
it
impact
the
organization
as
a
whole
and
then
I
let
them
answer
that
and
then
you
know
I
can
ask
follow-up
questions
like
was
the
project
delivered
on
time
or
is
it
you
know
still
in
process?
What
was
the
size
of
the
team?
E
You
know
I
I
try
to
see
if
the
candidate
can
answer
the
question
succinctly
directly
without
you
know
kind
of
hopping
all
around
because
hiring
managers
nowadays,
you
know
everyone's
limited
for
time
and
they
don't
want
to
spend
45
minutes
on
an
initial
interview
and
not
really
get
their
actual
question
answered
because
they
have
to
keep
redirecting
the
question
back
because
it's
not
getting
the
answer.
So
that's
what
I
try
to.
A
A
Well,
okay,
so
that's
not
forever!
I
apologize,
but
it's
a
long
time
so
and-
and
you
you
probably
I
don't
know
anybody
else
that
has
more
perspective
on
different
types
of
training
in
the
technical
space,
those
that
work
and
those
that
don't
I
mean
you
bring
a
lot
to
the
table.
Any
thoughts
specifically.
B
Well,
I
think
first,
the
the
most
important
comment
that
was
mentioned
in
discussing
this
is
community,
because
all
the
blockchains
are
just
based
on
communities
and
if
you
want
to
get
involved
in
the
community,
the
different
communities
there's
so
many
ways.
Gary
mentioned
hyperledger
working
groups,
consensus
has
working
groups
and
the
global
or
government
blockchain
association
has
working
groups.
Now
what
these
working
groups
can
give?
B
So,
for
instance,
if
you're
working
in
trade
financing
want
to
make
the
jump
into
blockchain,
go
to
a
trade,
finance,
blockchain
working
group
and
just
introduce
yourself
and
say
I'm
just
here-
to
learn
and
listen
and
and
the
connections
you
make
and
the
communities
you
get
tied
into.
You
know
you
don't
know
what
training
you're
going
to
need
until
you
know
where
you
want
to
be.
B
The
field
is
so
wide
open
so
for
candidates
looking
to
get
involved,
it's
better
to
work
from
what
you
know
and
there's
areas
of
blockchain
coming
up
in
every
area,
and
you
just
have
to
find
it
and
I
think
the
working
groups
again
there's
so
much
free
education
out
there,
the
all
the
classes
are
mostly
auditable
from
hyperledger
the
linux
foundation.
I
know
the
class
that
ledger
academy
just
finished
writing
the
blockchain
for
business.
B
You
can,
and
this
is
how
a
lot
of
the
classes
are
structured.
You
can
sit
in
the
class
for
free,
but
you
want
that
certificate
to
put
on
your
linkedin
or
on
your
resume.
You
have
to
pay
for
the
class
and
take
the
exam,
but
you
can
sit
in
on
all
the
classes,
basically
and
just
learn
whatever
you
can
so
that
to
me
from
an
education
perspective.
Is
it
it's
like
the
wild
west
out
there
insofar
as
grabbing
information.
A
Yeah
you're
right
there
are
a
lot
of
sources
today,
if
you
well
obviously,
blockchain's
alcoholic
as
a
market
is
not
that
old
and
at
the
beginning
of
a
market,
there's
not
a
lot
of
sources
for
stuff,
but
certainly
for
something.
That's
several
years
old.
There's
plenty
of
sources,
usually
all
over
the
place.
So
that's
good
to
know
cool
next
thing:
finding
jobs
candidates.
So
here's
a
really
good
question,
and
maybe
just
because
I'm
old
and
I
I've
had
more
jobs
than
anybody.
A
I
know
I'll
say
one
thought
is
sometimes
you
look
at
a
job
other
times,
you're
looking
for
a
company
and
so
you're,
it's
put
your
candidate
head
on
again
and
say:
hey
whatever
it
is
the
company
sunk
or
I
need
to
move
on
to
something
different.
Whatever
reason
you
want
to
leave,
where
you
are,
you
want
to
go
somewhere
else.
How
do
you
decide
as
a
candidate
where
to
focus
so
gary?
Let
me
flip
that
to
you.
First.
C
You
think
you
want
to
work
right,
and
maybe
it's
because
you've
seen
you
know,
people
speak
from
those
companies
whatever
it
may
be
right
the
and
then
I
think
that's
also
where,
like
you
know,
community
comes
in.
So
what
I
would
say
is
it's,
you
know,
try
to
try
to
find
something
less
than
six
degrees
of
separation
between
you
and
somebody
who
works
at
that
company
right.
C
Go
scour
the
company's
site
and
all
that
type
of
stuff
right
I
mean
the
usual
job
hunting
things,
but
you
know,
I
think
we
found
people
right
just
from
people
reaching
out
right
and
you'd,
be
surprised
how
you
can
get.
You
know,
opportunities
that
are
in
there
right
and
I
think
and
and
reach
out
to
other
folks.
You
know
in
the
community
right
if
they
may
know
things
right,
I'm
not
I'm
just
not
a
meat
thing,
but
a
lot
of
people
do
reach
out
to
me.
A
C
Somebody,
you
know
this
company
right,
you
know
any
advice,
so
I
think
that
those
those
things
you
know
do
work
well
on
jobs,
the
the
jobs
that
fits
interesting
right
and
the
other
side
is
too
right.
An
interesting
point
is,
if
you
want
to
do
blockchain,
but
you're,
not
finding
it,
for
whatever
reason
right,
it
does
is
asking
a
skill
set.
That's
not
there.
You
know.
Take
you
know
bobby
mentioned.
C
There's
it's
viable
in
every
industry
right
think
about,
like
think
about
companies
that
may
want
to
do
something
in
blockchain
right,
like
even
at
google.
We
don't
really
hire
blockchain
people
right,
but
we
have
a
small
group
of
people
who
do
blockchain
right.
So
it's
like
a
20
thing
right,
but
many
initiatives
and
many
companies
are
always
started
by
like
just
somebody
who
had
an
idea
right.
So
if
you're
motivated
right,
you
have
something
find
a
job,
a
company
that
you're
comfortable
with
or
whatever,
and
try
to
push
the
blockchain
agenda.
A
A
That's
a
win,
because
even
if
they're,
not
in
your
department,
doing
what
you
want
to
do,
the
point
is
they
do
know
about
the
company
from
the
other
side
of
the
fence,
they're
you're,
not
looking
over
the
fence
to
say:
what's
that
company
like
you
get
a
second
perspective
on
that
and
that's
huge
and
then
the
other
side,
of
course
is.
Maybe
they
can
tell
you?
Well,
it's
not
my
department,
you
know,
but
I
know
the
guy
gary
who
runs
in
the
cloud
department
call
him.
A
You
know
he
may
have
an
interest
in
that
type
of
candidate.
So
you
get
two
wins
there.
One
is
learning
more
about
the
company
directly
from
somebody
you
know
so
it's
kind
of
like
if
you
gave
an
opinion
on
google,
it's
a
lot
different
than
me
reading
an
opinion
from
somebody
who
I
don't
know.
Do
you
know
what
I
mean.
D
I
I
think
this
is
like
a
question
where
I
can
probably
add
the
the
most
value.
So
if
somebody
as
an
example
is
is
new
to
the
space,
they
may
not
have
an
extensive
network
in
terms
of
you
know,
who's
who
they're
looking
for
and
what
they're
looking
for.
It's
obviously
very
bespoke
to
them
as
an
individual.
D
So
that's
where
we,
I
feel
like
as
a
sort
of
specialist
recruiter
in
the
space.
I
can
add
a
lot
of
value
so
if
they,
if
they
do,
have
a
list
of
companies
that
they're
keen
to
work
for
or
keen
for
me
to
approach
on
their
behalf,
I
might
work
with
some
of
them
and
therefore
I
can
give
them
a
much
more
in-depth
idea
of
the
team,
the
culture,
the
projects
they're
working
on.
D
A
E
Yeah
anytime,
we
bring
on
a
new
company
or
an
existing
company
has
a
new
role
we
like
to
set
up
a
call
similar
to
what
we're
all
doing
now
and
we
ask
questions
of
the
hiring
manager.
You
know
what
what
what's
this
role
all
about?
How
does
it
contribute?
What
specifically,
are
you
looking
for
in
terms
of
candidate
skills?
E
You
know
soft
skills
and
hard
skills,
and
we
just
try
to
get
really
in
depth
on
that
initial
intake
call,
and
then
we
look
at
their
job
description,
which
is
typically
a
wish
list
right.
It's
going
to
be
20
bullet
points
or
whatever,
and
then
we
condense
that
for
them
into
like
the
top
five-
and
you
know,
do
a
write-up,
that's
going
to
appeal
to
people
and
then
we'll
post
it
up
here.
A
lot
of
candidates
find
companies
and
jobs
that
are
a
fit
by
referrals.
E
I
I
would
say
by
and
large
seattle
is
very
networking,
I'm
not
sure
if
that's
a
word,
but
that's
people
will
rely
on
their
their
network,
whether
it's
you
know
their
local
college
that
they
went
to,
or
maybe
they
know
a
friend
that
works
at
a
large.
You
know
one
of
the
fang
companies
once
in
a
while
someone,
you
know
anytime.
Someone
reaches
me
directly.
My
first
question
is:
how
did
you
find
out
about
this
role?
You
know
and
they'll
say
well.
E
A
You
hit
another
point:
brian
you,
which
I
thought
was
a
good
one.
You
said
the
company
and
I
don't
know
whether
it's
the
hr
department,
the
hiring
manager
or
both
how
they
come
up
with
it.
But
somebody
writes
up
a
job
description
says
this
is
what
I
want
for
a
blockchain
developer
and
usually
they'll
they'll.
A
I've
even
seen
really
good
what
I
call
humorous
job
descript
descriptions
written
by
something
that
about
superman
and
all
of
his
friends
couldn't
possibly
fill,
and
when
you
read
these
I'll
call
it
I'll
use
the
general
term
insane
job
descriptions,
they'll,
say
things
like
required
languages
and
they'll
list,
and
they
don't
even
say
prefer
they'll
just
say
required.
Languages,
they'll
say
something
like
java,
javascript,
node.js,
python,
rust
and
cobalt.
And
it's
like
okay,
that's
a
list
of
languages!
Fair
enough.
A
When
you
read
that
you
go
well,
let's
see
when
I
get
hired,
I'm
not
going
to
be
doing
all
of
that
for
sure,
and
what
bothers
you
when
you
read
a
job
description
as
a
candidate
is
when
somebody
hasn't
vetted
it
well
enough
to
figure
out
when
you
read
the
job
description,
what
were
they
really
looking
for?
You
know
what
I
mean
yeah
and
those
wish
lists
are
just
that,
and
I
don't
really
any
thoughts
on
what
the
purpose
of
the
wish
list
is.
I
guess,
from
the
from
the
company's
perspective.
E
I
think
they
look
at
the
job
as
a
whole
and
when
we're
on
the
intake
call,
you
know
oftentimes
they'll,
throw
in
oh
yeah
and
they
need
this
and
they
need
this.
What
we
try
to
do
is
say:
okay,
most
of
the
time.
What
are
they
going
to
be
coding?
You
know
what's
the
primary
language
and
then
okay,
so
it's
javascript,
seventy-five
percent
sign,
okay
and
then
what?
What
would
be?
Second
to
that
right?
Oh
it's
gonna
be
they're.
E
Gonna
have
to
know
sql
server,
so
some
of
these
other
ancillary
ones,
like
you
know,
rust
or
cobalt
or
whatever
that's
something
they
may
have
to
have
some
familiarity
with,
because
we're
going
to
be
doing
it
some
of
the
time.
So
that's
really
not
that
important.
We
can
find
the
candidate
that
has
the
heavy
javascript
and
the
heavy
sql
server
right,
and
then
that
broadens
our
net
and
then,
through
our
discussions,
we
can
touch
on
those
what
we
call
nice
to
haves.
B
Well,
just
how
the
candidates
find
the
companies
again,
there's
there's
so
much
to
be
said
for
skill
matching.
You
either
have
the
skills,
you
don't
have
the
skills,
but
because
people
are
mentioning
in
the
chat,
there
are
business
roles
that
don't
have
anything
to
do
with
coding
in
blockchain
and
they're
enormously
available,
such
as
project
managers
and
all
different
types
of
marketers
front-end
designers,
which
is
kind
of
a
little
coding.
C
C
I
guess
I
would
say
the
primary
thing
you
know,
since
the
market
is
fairly
like
it's
growth
right,
so
you
know,
I
think,
when
people
look
at
pr
for
product
management
skills
right,
it
means
that
they're
looking
to
you,
know,
move
on
or
do
something
more
right,
because
a
lot
of
times
you
end
up
with
like
development,
cto
kind
of
doing
all
you
know
all
of
it
right.
Well,
I
mean
what
we
look
so
you're
really
looking
for
something
in
somebody's
resume,
one
that
they
have
good
product
management
experience
two
you
know
have
they
had?
C
C
E
C
A
Yeah,
but
so,
but
you're
hitting
a
really
big
point
and
you
use
the
example
of
product
manager
and
all
I
can
say
is
in
my
little
experience
you
wind
up
in
a
sense
saying
somebody
gives
you
a
role
and
I've
had
a
bunch
of
common
roles,
whatever
they
are
and
some
of
those
roles
it
you
wind
up,
saying:
oh
okay,
maybe
I'll
put
a
really
large
company
out,
use
the
example
of
google,
maybe
ibm.
I
don't
know
about
that.
In
the
old
days
they
didn't.
A
I
was
in
the
field
in
ibm
and
ibm,
wasn't
always
well
resourced
in
the
field
to
meet
what
they
were
trying
to
deliver
a
service.
If
you
were
in
a
lab
that
was
better
funded,
that's
fine,
but
I
think
my
little
experiences,
especially
in
product
management
roles,
is
yeah.
Okay,
you
got
to
know
the
basics
of
product
management
number
one.
What
have
you
got
for
certifications?
A
What
can
you
show
me
on
your
skill
sets
blah
blah
blah,
but
then
you
get
past
that
and
say:
okay
now
I
want
to
know
about
your
experience,
as
you
just
said
so
tell
me
about
your
experience
as
a
project
manager
right
and
when
you
start
talking
about
whether
it's
successes
or
failures
when
we
dive
into
that.
What
you're
going
to
be
finding
out
about
me
as
a
candidate
is
okay,
so
here's
a
project
that
failed
all
right.
So
what
did
jim
do
during
the
failure?
A
What
it
was
he
said
was
the
ability
to
find
risk
in
the
rest
of
the
output
delivery
cycle
and
the
delivery
teams
that
other
people
hadn't
found.
You
know
what
I
mean
gaps
so
he's
telling
you
you
know
it's
like
he's
telling
you
the
market's
going
to
crash
10
days
before
it
crashes,
because
he
knows
that
you
know
what
I
mean
and
it's
that
kind
of
which
is
hard.
A
I
don't
see
that
in
job
descriptions-
it's
more
of,
I
guess
I
would
say-
probably
learning
when
you're
talking
to
the
candidates
as
you
go
through
those
kind
of
things
really
getting
their
stories
and
not
every
company.
I
guess,
is
going
to
go
to
that
depth.
I
guess
some
do
and
from
what
you
said.
I
assume
google
has
a
about
an
in-depth
hiring
process.
You
mentioned
you
to
get
there.
You
had
to
go
through
a
fair
amount
of
hiring,
I
guess
as
interviews
and
stuff.
A
E
E
If
it
goes
on
too
long
and
one
of
their
other
interview
loops,
you
know,
is
much
quicker,
they're
going
to
have
an
offer
in
hand
and
then
have
a
decision
to
make.
Do
I
want
to
take
this
or
continue
on
so
the
ones
that
I
prefer
is
and-
and
this
is
becoming
more
common-
is
the
initial
hiring
manager
technical
interview
and
if
that
goes
well,
an
on-site
interview
with
the
team
and
then
make
a
call,
but
when
we're
working
with
some
of
the
larger
companies,
sometimes
you
have
to
let
the
candidates
know.
D
D
You
know
within
a
week
if
you
can,
but
you
know
just
just
advising
on
on
streamlining
and
shorten
the
time
between
the
first
and
the
final
and
then
there
if
there
is
an
intent
to
offer
there
to
get
that
out
asap-
and
you
know
sometimes
it
can
be
fastest
fastest
finger
first,
so
yeah
we
do
advise
and
consult
as
best.
We
can
on
that.
Obviously
we're
never
going
to
change
it.
D
A
Yeah
but
you're
right,
that's
another
good
point.
In
a
sense,
I
thought
hot
technical
jobs
and
and
areas
technically
are
much
like
real
estate
in
the
u.s
they're
exploding
off
the
map
and
just
like
real
estate.
What
used
to
be
a
quote,
a
six-month
process
to
sell
your
house
is
probably
never
going
to
be
more
in
about
three
or
four
days
in
many
markets
today
and
the
same
thing
you're
right.
A
So
it's
one
thing
to
have
say
my
company
has
a
job,
and
I
want
to
get
one
person
in
fair
enough,
but
when
you're
large
enough
that
you
in
a
sense
have
a
quote
a
relatively
ongoing
demand
for
resources,
even
if
it
varies
a
little
bit.
The
question
is:
how
do
you?
What
how
do
you
traditionally
find
candidates
that
make
sense,
and
how
do
you
create
a
pipeline
process,
in
effect,
so
gary
thoughts
on
that.
C
Right
and
what
exactly
what
you're
looking
for
right
and
we
tried
to
be,
not
as
I
guess
you
know,
we
always
try
to
be
a
little
bit
broader,
but
then,
like
sprinkle
in,
like
you
know
some
specific
things
to
sort
of
you
know
blockchain
right
and
I
I
guess
you
know
a
number
of
companies
out.
There
obviously
are
doing
this
and
I
think
the
only
way
to
do
it
is
to
really
use
folks,
like
you
know,
ben
bryan
and
whatever
right.
C
I
think
it's
a
big
market
for,
like
you
know,
you
know
external,
recruiting
right.
I
think
you're
just
not
going
to
find
companies
that
have
the
expertise
to
do
it
or
the
time
to
do
it
themselves
right,
so
they
may
have
their
developers.
Who
can
do
the
interviews,
so
you
know
we
sort
of.
Did
that
and
then
you
know
you
have
to
you
have
to
kind
of
know
what
your
growth
spectrum
is
right.
So
are
you
in?
Are
you
in
a
development
phase?
So
is
that
what
you're
really
looking
for?
C
Are
you
looking
for
hardcore
developers?
Are
you
you
know
opting
out
because
it
can
take
a
while
to
find
candidates
right,
so
you
have
to
kind
of
like
plot
out
like
where
you
are
and
what
roles
you
want
to
bring
on
right
and
when
you
actually
need
them
right,
and
it's
going
to
be
a
mix
early
on
it's
going
to
be
a
mix
of
development,
so
we
did
that.
But
at
the
end
time
we
were
looking
more
for
we
had
enough
developers.
C
C
And
you
want
people
who
have
like
you
know
new
thinking,
so
you've
got
to
start
scanning
and
looking
for
people
out
there
right,
so
you
know
see:
what's
out
there
see
who's
out
there
or
see
candidates
that
you
like
and
then
use
those
as
sort
of
profiles.
You
know
future
profiles
that
you
might
sort
of
put
out
there
yeah.
A
That's
a
great
point,
yeah
a
lot
of
good
points,
I'll
say,
but
the
thought
of
saying
gee.
I
want
to
build
something
and
therefore
I
need
builders
makes
sense
early
on
to
something.
But
the
ultimate
thing
is
anything
that
you
put
money
into
is
an
investment
and
so
in
the
world
we
live
in
that's
run
by
capitalism.
You
eventually
have
to
say
somewhere.
A
I've
got
to
see
a
real
return
on
this
thing
and,
and
there
are
multiple
types
of
returns,
I
recognize
that
we
have
in
a
sense
social
responsibilities,
we're
looking
at
stakeholders
and
lots
of
other
things
that
we
can
do.
We
can
deliver
value
I'll,
say
in
many
ways,
but
the
concept
is
you
can't
just
say:
I'm
going
to
deliver
value
without,
in
a
sense
figuring
out
a
way
to
be
long-term
profitable
on
something:
that's
usually
not
a
sustainable
model.
A
So,
given
that
reality
of
having
to
figure
out
how
to
monetize
something
like
you
said,
one
of
the
it
sounds
stupid
one
of
them
and
well
I'll,
say
you
your
career.
Actually,
when
I
knew
you
at
ibm
and
what
you
were
doing,
here's
a
dumb
question:
how
many
you
know
in
a
given
three-month
period,
how
many
companies
did
you
in
your
role
when
you
were
the
blockchain
cto,
how
many
companies
you
actually
get
to
talk
to
about
what
they
were
trying
to
do
from
their
perspective?
A
A
So
here's
what
I'm
picking
on
I'm
I'm
now
doing
this
thing
called
future
food
test.
All
I'm
doing
is
we're
trying
to
research
about
the
food
supply
chain.
We're
trying
to
understand.
You
know
what
all
the
different
roles
from
these
different
companies.
We're
trying
to
understand.
Tell
me
about
your
company.
Are
you
responsible
usda
for
regulation
and
compliance
or
something
are
you
a
supplier
or
packager
whatever?
You
are
talk
to
me
and
just
tell
me
what
you're
interested
in
it's
a
much
more
open-ended
conversation.
A
What
amazes
me
is
when
you
listen
to
these
companies,
like
you
were
doing
the
stuff
you
learn
is
phenomenal
and
you
talked
earlier
you
mentioned
about.
We
want
people
to
think
differently.
Oh
my
god!
If
you
spend
three
hours
in
a
quarter
having
the
right
conversations
and
asking
the
right
questions
in
a
sense
you
I
think
you
get
a
world
shift
in
how
you
think
it
just
it's
literally.
You
can
work
on
something
for
a
year,
get
locked
in
a
box
and
have
no
great
thoughts
other
than
your
own
ideas
gee.
A
A
If
the
only
thing
you're
working
on
is
an
algorithm,
but
once
you
have
that
view
about
the
business,
not
the
business
perspective
from
one
company
but
multiple
you,
it
just
opens
you
up
your
eyes
so
much
in
terms
of
what
you
can
come
back
with
as
input.
So
I
would
flip
it
around
and
say
for
all
those
conversations
you
had
if
I
asked
the
people
who
you
were
talking
to,
they
said:
oh,
my
god,
his
ideas.
A
He
had
a
lot
of
ideas,
but
the
trick
to
it
is
that
you
were
having
a
lot
of
conversations.
You
know
what
I
mean.
Does
that
make
sense
so
anyway,
the
the
ability
to
have
conversations?
I
think,
a
lot
of
conversations
and
back
to
bobby's
point
earlier
about
the
hyperledger
stuff
in
the
community.
That's
one
of
the
other
things
you
get.
There
is
you're
going
to
hear
a
lot
of
perspectives,
whether
it's
you're
jumping
into
the
healthcare
domain
supply
chain.
You
know
a
climate
action
whatever
it
is.
A
D
Even
those
businesses
sometimes
have
to
hedge
their
bets
and
and
reach
out
to
a
recruitment
partner
like
myself,
for
either
like
a
really
niche
or
an
ad
hoc
role.
But
if
the
shoe
was
on
the
other
foot-
and
I
was
internal
I'd-
be
I'd-
be
utilizing
my
my
existing
my
existing
staff
for
referrals
and
I'd
also,
you
know
certain
development
roles,
you're
going
to
need
more
than
one.
D
So
I'd
just
be
constantly
building
up
a
database
and
even
networking
around
those
candidates,
even
even
when
there
isn't
a
live
role
there,
letting
them
know
about
the
business.
What
we've
got
coming
up
a
little
bit
about
our
company,
our
company
ethos-
and
you
know
our
values
as
a
business
and
then
when
an
opportunity
does
come
up
just
just
like
I
would
do
with
with
my
network
of
candidates.
You
know
pick
up
the
phone
have
a
conversation
or
vice
versa,
when
the
time's
right
they'll
reach
out
to
you.
A
Yeah
awesome,
you're
right
and
that's
the
perspective
of
saying
yes
you're,
able
to
see
there's
both
sides
of
that
I'm
an
outsider
or
external,
recruiting
service.
How
can
I
add
value
but
you're
right,
you
think
about
what,
if
you're
internal,
what
you're
trying
to
do
and
deliver
and
the
process
that
you
set
up
for
the
company
on
the
other
side
of
the
fence.
Brian.
At
your
end,
I
know
you
have
at
least
one
large
client
that
you
work
with,
so
I
assume
that
you
understand
more
about
their
process
on
the
inside.
A
E
E
The
other
thing
is
I
like
what
everyone's
saying
about
just
having
a
conversation
with
somebody
because
oftentimes
I
will
see
recruiters
they're
focused
so
much
on
one
role
and
they'll
have
a
candidate
say:
oh,
I
don't
actually
have
java
javascript,
I'm
more.
You
know
c
sharp
and
then
the
conversation
ends
there
right
where
that
recruiter
could
just
say:
oh,
hey
cool.
I
think
we
should
still
have
a
conversation
if
you're
interested
in
looking,
because
we
also
have
a
couple
c
sharp
roles.
E
In
terms
of
the
question
here,
how
companies
find
candidates
university
recruiting
is
pretty
big
up
here
in
seattle,
where
you'll
get
involved
with
one
of
the
departments
at
the
big
college.
Here,
while
the
two
big
colleges-
and
you
know,
you'll
have
a
recruiter
specifically
work
on,
you
know,
campus
and
and
try
to
get
those
candidates
right
out
of
college.
A
Yeah
yeah,
you
hit
one
big
thing
and
I
going
back
my
own
history.
It
was
the
concept
of
using
employee
referrals
and
there's
a
normal
process
for
that.
In
most
companies
I
had
my
own
company
that
was
a
manufacturing
business
and
I
was
desperate
to
find
good
people
to
work
for
me
and
I
thought
to
myself.
A
A
Oh
look
and
my
friend
bob
you
know
quit
four
months
into
this
thing
right,
even
if
you
got
your
bonus,
that's
a
bad
deal
for
you,
so
you're
going
to
actually
help
me
properly
recruit.
That
was
the
one
thing
that
really
was
effective
for
little
companies.
I
think
if
you
can,
if
you
don't
have
what
I
call
a
lot
of
money,
it's
look
around
for
that
referral
concept
and
see
that
work
bobby
any
thoughts.
D
A
Yeah,
it's
a
very
good
right.
Actually,
I
did
see
you
have
a
lot
on
that,
and
that
is
a
huge
point,
because
you're
right
somehow
some
ponds
are
relatively
shallow
and
some
are
going
to
be
deeper
and
if
you're,
if
you're,
only
looking
at
one
or
two
places
you're
going
to
lose
a
lot
of
opportunity
to
find
good
candidates
for
sure
and
so
you're
right
figuring
out
a
strategy
on
how
to
do.
A
That
is
a
really
important
part,
and
I
don't
want
to
move
too
deep
into
that,
because
you're
going
to
hit
it
later
so
I'll.
Let
that
go
actually
this
sort
of
hits
it
again
but
I'll
say
managing
diversity,
just
a
thought
in
a
sense
when
you
think
about
companies-
and
it's
it's
not
just
I'll
call
it
typical
identities.
It's
beyond
that.
It's
getting
a
mix
of
thinking,
not
just
roles
but
perspectives
and
everything
else
to
get
views
into
a
team.
A
C
I'm
probably
not
the
right
one
to
be
on
that
one.
I
think
that's
more
corporate
stuff,
I
mean
to
me,
you
know
I
I
you
know
I
always
just
kind
of
went
with
yeah.
I
get
the
right.
You
know
mix
of
people
from
a
lot
of
different
places,
so
I
probably
didn't
think
about
this.
The
right
way
at
the
time
so
yeah.
A
Okay,
all
right,
fair
enough,
I
mean-
and
I
would
say
you
know
I
when
I
was
hiring
it
was
many
many
years
ago.
The
only
thing
I
was
looking
for
was
and
I'll
say
that
gary
because
you
run
teams
and
what
to
me,
a
healthy
team
was
a
team
that
could
argue
in
a
productive
way
with
itself.
Does
that
make
sense,
yeah.
C
Means
a
lot
of
things
right.
So
if
you
can
get
diversity
of
opinions
backgrounds,
you
know
whatever
it
may
be
right
and
then
figure
out
how
to
make,
and
I
always
kind
of
mix
you
know,
combine
diversity
and
inclusion
to
a
degree
right
because
a
lot
of
times
you
know
you
need
to
have
you
want
everyone
who's
going
to
be
willing
to
speak
right.
You
want
to
have
you
know
team,
that's
in
there,
so
I
guess
you
know.
Part
of
the
other
side
is,
I
think
you
know
we
used
to.
C
We
had
some
hires
that
didn't
fit
in
for
a
variety
of
reasons
right
because
they
were
just
kind
of
hired
not
by
the
people,
the
people
who
were
actually
going
to
work
with
never
got
to
meet
them
right,
and
you
know
I
think,
that
that's
kind
of
and
some
of
the
teams
and
things
like
that.
It
is
important
right
to
see
that
a
team
will
actually
gel
right
just
to
see
that
you'll
kind
of
fit
into
sort
of
personalities
right
and
that
becomes
a
pretty
important.
A
Important
thing:
yeah
yeah
good
point,
one
of
the
things
I'll
say
in
my
experience
being
on
teams.
Is
that
sometimes
a
really
bad
sign?
It's
almost
a
it's
almost
a
health
issue.
You
can
have
a
upload,
a
bad
meeting
where
you
have
a
meeting
and
you
have
a
team
and
you're
expecting
a
lot
of
input
and
discussion
and
you
don't
get
it
it's
either
either
I
have
90
of
the
input
or
somebody
else
bobby
has
90
output.
A
If
it's
only
one
meeting
or
something
like
that,
fine,
it's
not
a
problem,
but
when
you
realize
that
successively
that
you're
getting
what
I
call
a
lack
of
diversity
in
views
and
opinions
and
so
on
so
on
then
at
least
in
the
experience
I've
been,
you
have
a
really
potentially
high
risk
that
something
is
going
wrong
in
the
organization
itself
and
that
doesn't
matter
what
the
code
you're
delivering
or
the
commits
you're
doing
and
what's
getting
tested
is
bigger
than
that.
You
have
risks
that
you
may
be
way
off
track
in
a
lot
of
things.
A
I
just
talked
to
another
company
last
week
that
actually
had
that
problem
where
everything
was
very
smooth.
They
had
an
organization,
it
was
all
there
and
kind
of
like
when
you
dropped
in
and
said
how
things
are
going.
They
were
always
saying
fine
and
then
you
say
well:
where
are
you
now
and
it's
like?
Oh,
so
something
wasn't
happening
that
should
have,
and
you
realized
that
there
wasn't
any
real
controversy.
A
It
was
really
an
easy
going
environment
kind
of
a
thing
and
they
weren't
getting
enough
of
what
I
call
challenge
all
around
the
place
and
you
want
it
in
a
respectful
way,
but
you
want
it
to
be
a
healthy
thing
that
you
know.
I
say
something
and
you've
got
to
come
back
and
challenge
me.
If
that's
not
happening,
you
know
it's
probably
not
a
healthy
environment
anyway.
That's
you
know
I'll
quote
my
experience
in
that
ben
any
thoughts
so.
D
I
I
looked
at
this
question
more
from
a
diversity
and
inclusion
perspective,
and
I
think
from
from
my
side
on
that,
a
lot
of
the
the
larger
enterprise
clients.
It's
it's
such
a
sort
of
major
thing
for
them
and
such
a
huge
push
and
shift
that
they
are
moving
towards,
as
is
obviously
like
women
in
tech
and
things
like
that.
D
We've
we've
partnered,
specifically
with
a
couple
of
businesses
just
from
a
women
in
tech
perspective,
where
that
you
know
they've,
approached
us
and
all
they're
looking
for,
is
female
developers
to
to
diversify
their
teams
and
then,
but
most
of
those,
like
I
say,
do
come
from
from
an
enterprise
level.
I
find
it
sort
of.
You
know
an
interesting
example.
D
If
you
will,
there
was
a
a
candidate
who
was
a
hyper
ledger
candidate
recently
he
was
halfway
through
the
interview
process
and
then
decided
to
withdraw
because
the
company,
when
he
checked
him
out
on
linkedin,
look
for
the
people,
wasn't
wasn't
diverse
enough
for
him
and
it
was
a
four
person
startup.
So
you
know
it
kind
of
kind
of
wears
both
ways
from
from
a
candidate
and
a
client
perspective
in
hong.
A
Yeah
and
that's
true,
that
is
a
good
point,
and
so
the
deal
is
when
you
talk
about
companies
that
have
a
strong
focus
to
build
a
more
diverse
team
at
any
level,
then
they
have
to
have
a
way
to
two
things:
one:
they
have
to
figure
out
a
way
to
measure
their
progress
in
that
one
and
two,
I'm
asking
to
your
point:
do
they
they?
As
you
said,
women
in
tech,
more
women
coders,
whatever
whatever
their
focus
is
going
to
be?
A
Yeah
a
good
great
point,
because
the
reality
is
it's
no
fun
being
what
I
call
the
first
diverse
candidate
into
a
team.
If
you
think
the
culture
is
not
going
to
be
right,
so
you're
right,
if
you're
doing
your
job,
then
you
got
to
be
looking
both
sides
of
that
and
say
hey
as
the
recruiter.
You
know
I've
done
enough
to
say
it's
not
just
that
they're
looking
to
hire
somebody
with
a
label
they're
actually
looking
to
provide
support
for
a
more
diverse
workforce
in
an
operating
mode,
not
just
the
hiring
process.
E
Well,
I
can
tell
you
this
almost
every
company
that
we
work
with
when
we
have
that
initial
intake
call.
They
always
say
you
know:
okay,
here's!
The
skill
set,
here's
what
we're
looking
for.
We
want
them
on
site
on
a
hybrid
model
three
to
four
days
a
week,
and
please
please,
please,
if
you
can
find
diverse
candidates,
send
those
you
know
first,
so
I'm
hearing
that
every
time
from
the
companies
but
I'm
starting
to
see
a
trend
from
the
candidates
saying,
what's
the
leadership
makeup,
what
do
they
do
in
terms
of
diversity?
E
Training
or
you
know,
how
diverse
are
they
so
the
candidates
are
starting
to
become
more
aware
that
they
want
to
be
part
of
an
organization
where
the
leadership
and
their
peers
are
going
to
be
from
different
backgrounds.
Different
companies
stuff
like
that,
so
I'm
starting
to
hear
that
more
and
more.
A
B
What
are
the
challenges
in
being
female
and-
and
you
know
breaking
into
this
new
field-
and
I
guess
they
wanted
me
to
say:
oh
they're
horrible
challenges
they're
there
and
I
I
spoke
honestly
and
instinctively-
and
I
said
it
has
been
the
blockchain
arena,
the
most
welcoming
workforce,
I've
ever
entered.
No
one
has
questioned
my
work
again.
A
I
don't
see
a
lot
of
that,
at
least
they
don't
hear
about
a
lot
of
that.
I
should
say,
but
good
excellent,
hiring
process
real
quickly.
Gary
you
did
talk
about
and
I
guess
we
can
pick
on
google
as
an
example.
I
don't
know
if
that's
normal
or
different,
but
you
know
your
thoughts
if
I
see
a
job
out
there
and
I
fill
out
an
application
or
I
talk
to
ben
at
some
point
and
ben's
got
a
hold
of
it.
A
C
I'll
try
to
be
quick,
google's
process.
You
can
read
about
it's
hard,
but
the
google
pro
it
is,
and
it
can
be
long
and
time
consuming
right.
The
the
model
there
is
right
there
looking
for
the
right
candidates
right,
it's
a
lot
of
interviews,
a
lot
of
skill
tests
right.
I
will
say
that
in
in
in
some
of
the
like,
I
interviewed
a
few
other
places
too,
like
there's.
There's
a.
C
C
You
can
it's
fine
right
if
you've
learned
on
your
own-
and
you
know
it's
a
catch-22
right
like
hey,
I
don't
have
any
experience
doing
it
a
job,
but
I
just
want
to
say
I
know
rust
well,
they're
going
to
come
in
and
you're
going
to
have
to
code,
rust
and
you're,
going
to
do
algorithm,
testing
and
stuff
like
that
right.
So
there's
a
lot
of
like
that's
tougher,
like
I
think
on
on
on
you
know,
going
for
those
type
of
companies.
I
think
on
the
I.
C
C
So
just
be
aware,
right
going
in
like
ask
you
know
how
long
the
process
is
going
to
be,
like
you
know,
know
your
time
frame
and
that
type
of
stuff,
because
some
of
these
some
some
of
the
bigger
companies
like
somebody's
thinking
about
coinbase
coinbase,
has
a
pretty
long
hiring
process
right.
A
startup
might.
D
A
Yeah,
no
you're,
that's
a
great
point
because
yeah,
all
I
can
say
is
when
I
talk
to
startups
what
you
just
said
makes
sense
and
you're
right
these
bigger
companies
that
have
plenty
of
options:
they're,
not
looking
just
to
fill
some
somebody
in
two
weeks
to
fill
a
slot.
Typically
they're,
going
to
be
a
lot
more
selective.
So,
following
up
on
that
ben
your
thoughts.
D
D
But
as
long
as
you
ask
the
question,
and
as
long
as
you're
educating
the
client
that
you
know
these
candidates
do
come
and
go
off
the
market
very,
very
quickly,
at
least
at
least
you
do
in
your
part.
Sometimes
sometimes
it
works
and
sometimes
they'll
work
with
you.
Sometimes
they
have
to
stick
to
what
they
have
to
stick
to
and
that's
just
that's
just
the
layer.
They
learn
sometimes.
E
Well,
my
answer
is
probably
going
to
be
a
little
different
because
I
am
out
of
the
process
once
the
candidate
accepts
the
offer
I
slowly
fade
out.
So
what
I
typically
do
is
obviously
call
the
candidate
congratulate
them,
see
what
start
they
that
they
arrived
at,
introduce
them
to
the
in-house
recruiter
and
then
maybe
follow
up
once
a
week.
Just
to
see
hey,
you
know
any
questions,
anything
I
can
help
with.
Have
you
been
in
communication
how's,
the
onboarding
going,
but
their
hr
internally
and
their
recruiters
internally
handle
that
post
hey?
E
A
Yeah
cool
all
right,
great
all
right.
I
know
we've
hit
this.
I
don't
want
to
spend
too
much
time
on
this
I'll.
Just
I'll
go
go
through
everybody
fairly
quickly,
but
the
we've
talked
about
skills
and
experience
earlier
a
little
bit
and
gary
you
mentioned
that
I'll
start
with
you,
but
you
did
mention.
There
are
different
ways
to
measure
candidate
skills
and
experience
based
on
the
way
the
company
wants
to
work.
As
you
said,
any
response
there.
C
Yeah
I
mean
I,
I
think
you
know
we
we
looked
for
you
know
on
the
development
side,
we
looked
to
see
that
you
could
like
develop
and
do
something
right.
I
mean
I
wasn't
as
hardcore
and
like
coding
tests,
we
had
some
basic
tests,
basic
tests
of
thinking
and
things
like
that,
and
I
think,
on
the
you
know,
on
the
on
the
more
product
management
side
right.
C
C
You
know,
and
maybe
some
of
your
background
I
think
we
moved
away
from
you
know
we
used
to
ask
people
to
tell
us
stories
about
what
they've
done
in
the
past,
but
then
we
started
to
take
more
of
leverage.
They
should
leverage
what
they
did
in
their
past
but
apply
it
right.
So
come
up
with,
like
some
story
of
how
would
you
solve
x
right?
How
would
you
do
you
know?
What
would
you
do
here
yeah,
so
that
was
kind
of
what
we
jugged
more
than
anything
else
right?
C
D
So,
in
regards
to
candidate
skills,
I'll
come
in
from
a
slightly
different
angle
and
say
like
the
skills
on
the
resume,
when
you're
either
sending
it
to
a
recruiter
or
for
a
role,
I
would
say:
keep
it
as
simple
as
you
can
so.
A
pet
hate
that
I
get
from
a
lot
of
hiring
managers
is
that
candidates
send
every
single
language
framework
that
you
know
that
they've
even
heard
of
on
on
a
resume.
D
Sometimes
I
said
just
keep
it
simple,
show
what
you're
strong
at
whether
it's
you
know
beginner
intermediate
expert
rank
it
like
that.
Keep
it
simple
and
just
make
it
nice
nice
to
read
nice
and
simple,
and-
and
you
know,
when
you're
discussing
your
skills,
you
know
that's
what
they'll
focus
on
they're,
not
going
to
focus
on
something
that
you're
weak
at
they're,
not
going
to
call
you
out
on
it
unless
they're
a
really
difficult
hiring
manager.
But
you
know,
focus
on
your
strengths
and
accept
your
weaknesses
in
terms
of
your
skills.
E
E
Tell
me
what
you
do
on
the
front
end
and
then
tell
me
what
you
did
on
the
back
end,
and
hopefully
they
can
succinctly,
tell
you
exactly
what
they
did
on
the
front
and
exactly
what
they
did
on
the
back,
because
sometimes
someone
calls
themself.
You
know
a
full
stacker,
but
maybe
they're
90
back
in
and
only
10
on
the
front
and
and
really
it's
a
little
lighter,
because
the
roll's
50
50
or
whatever.
C
B
All
the
people
who
are
working
to
build
your
linkedin
profile
so
that
people
can
look
at
what
you've
been
up
to
for
the
past
year
say
so,
if
you
don't
have,
I
was
at
this
meetup
look
at
my
picture.
You
know
like
promote
yourself
on
your
linkedin,
so
people
say
wow
she's
involved
in
this
community
or
he's
been
doing
this
and
the
easiest
way
to
do
that
is,
is
just
put
it
out.
There.
A
Yeah
good
point
and
then
now
the
other
side,
which
is
maybe
a
little
more
challenging,
which
you
guys
have
talked
to
as
well,
but
is
the
concept
depending
upon
who
you
are
small?
Startup,
big
company,
temporary
role
or
full-time
long-term
hire
for
a
career
kind
of
a
thing
is
understanding
how
important
culture
fit
is
between
the
candidate
and,
in
a
sense,
your
team.
Your
company,
gary
thoughts.
C
Yeah
I'll
just
give
two
one,
so
so
google,
whether
you're
on
any
role
one
of
the
interviews
you'll
get
at
google,
is
one
they
call
googliness.
You
can
look
at
what
googliness
is,
but
there's
basically
a
method
of
set
of
questions
that
they
have
that
are
kind
of
in
there
that
they
have
interviewers.
Ask
right
that
you
know
determine
right
and
then
people
write
their
responses,
and
then
you
know
a
hiring
committee
kind
of
decides
like
do
you
fit
that
and.
C
I
think
you
know
we
we
moved
to
you
know
I
generally
more
move
to
you
know:
can
you
fit
with
the
sort
of
you
know
team
right,
it's
more
sort
of
just
some
enterprise.
So
maybe
we
test
you
know
teaming
this
or
whatever
separate
thing,
but
I
always
think
that
you
know:
can
you
work
with
the
team
right?
So
it's
always
good
to
get
feedback
from
the
people.
C
You
know
let
the
people
who
are
going
to
work
with
the
people
like.
Let
them
meet
right,
don't
just
blind
hire
people
right
yeah.
I
think
it
can
result
lead
to
bad
things
in
the
end
right.
So,
if
you
can
like
have
your
team,
the
team
they're
joining,
they
don't
have
to
go
to
the
interview
process
per
se,
but
at
least
have
them
meet.
Have
them
chat?
Have
them
do
whatever
right?
That's
how
you
can
determine
if
there's
a
you
know.
A
Yeah,
that's
that's
a
I
yeah,
that's
a
really
strong
point
I'll
say
because
I've
been
in
multiple
jobs
in
my
life
and
I've
been
in
a
couple
of
cases
where
I
did
get
hired
by
a
company
that
I
thought
was
a
good
company,
but
the
funny
part
was
out
of
the
interview
process.
Maybe
I
talked
to
five
or
six
different
people
on
interviews
and
it
turned
out.
A
I
only
got
to
work
with
one
of
them,
so
I
had
five
people
saying
yeah
you're,
the
guy,
and
yet
none
of
them
are
going
to
be
involved
with
me.
You
know
it's
like
maybe
you're
the
only
person
I
work
with
so
that
that's
a
bad
deal
on
both
ends
because
the
candidate
doesn't
know
what
he's
getting
into
for
sure.
I
only
talked
to
one
person
and
the
reverse
of
it.
Is
the
company?
Has
the
team
that
I'm
going
to
work
with,
doesn't
know
anything
about
me
either?
That's
a
big
quote:
a
red
flag.
D
D
If
you
will,
but
you
know
you
can
teach
technical
skills,
you
can't
teach
someone
to
be
a
good
team
and
culture
fit,
and
sometimes
I've
had
candidates
who
are
technically
very
strong,
not
get
the
job
to
someone.
You
know
slightly
less
technically
strong
with
less
years
experience
just
because
they've
been
a
better
fit.
B
I
know
you
could
have
a
team
that
looks
great
on
paper,
but
they
just
can't
seem
to
get
stuff
done,
and
I
think,
speaking
to
your
point,
jim
the
ability
for
someone
in
charge
of
that
team
to
notice
that
and
make
the
proper
adjustments
minor
adjustments.
It
might
be
a
team.
One
of
the
players
on
the
team
is
just
not
going
to
work
with
the
rest
of
them,
but
you
have
to
be
able
to
analyze
that
and
make
judgment
calls.
A
C
Yeah,
I
think
the
blockchain
space
is
tricky
right
for
hiring
right
to
a
degree
right.
You
know
with
when
there's
a
shortage
of
people
that
are
around
right.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
expectations,
so
I
think
if
you're
a
person,
who's
hiring
know
what
your
limits
are
going
to
be
and
know
who
you're
really
looking
for,
and
then
only
when
there's
really
really
a
candidate
that
you
know
you
think
is
like
super
super
awesome
right
go
go
outside
of
it.
C
Otherwise,
you
get
into
you
know
you
can't
end
up
like
overpaying
and
overpriced
out
of
it
on
the
candidate
side,
I
think
you
have
to
be
aware
of
what
the
type
of
company
you're
going
with
is
right.
I
think
people
see
all
these
great
salaries
and
all
these
coins,
and
all
this
great
value
and
potential
in
here,
and
sometimes
it's
not
always
going
to
be
the
case
right,
be
aware
of
whether
you're
going
for
a
startup.
You
know
the
right,
the
right
mixes
right.
I
think
those
are
always
key.
D
E
C
As
a
as
on
the
hiring
side,
right
is
that
you
know
you
may
lose,
you
may
lose
some
candidates
right.
You
know
this
base.
I
think
the
challenge
on
the
invite
my
advice
on
the
candidate
side
is:
if
you
want
to
try
to
challenge
an
offer
or
have
more
than
one
offer
yeah
the
only
thing
that's
ever
gonna
work
there
right
is
showing
another
offer
right.
I'm
never
gonna
believe
that
you
have
another
offer
unless
you
show
it
to
me.
A
Yeah
good
point:
I
actually
was
lucky
enough
once
I
had
that
in
my
career.
The
thing
that
made
it
easy
was,
it
was
the
same
company
that
had
two
offers.
It
wasn't
like
you
had
to
say:
oh,
go,
call,
google
and
see
if
they
really
want
me.
No,
it
was
within
the
same
company,
so
one
hr
department
said
no.
This
is
the
deal,
and
that
makes
it
simple.
If
you
get
multiple
from
one
company
ben
your
thought.
D
So
with
offers,
I
do
prefer
them
to
come
through,
sometimes
me
as
a
recruiter,
as
opposed
to
being
extended
to
the
candidate
directly
and
there's
obviously
a
few
reasons
behind
that
some
clients
don't
like
it,
but
there
is
a
few
reasons
behind
that.
Sometimes
the
candidate
may
not
necessarily
be
a
sort
of
strong
negotiator.
He
may
want
the
role,
but
the
salary
might
come
in
just
slightly
below
the
expectations.
They
could
end
up
then
losing
out
on
that
candidate
to
another
opportunity.
So
if
it
does
come
through
us,
you
know
to
the
candidates.
D
The
candidate
will
be
a
lot
more
open
and
honest,
and
obviously,
if
we
need
to
go
back
then
then
we
will
sometimes
clients
are
adamant
that
they
manage
it
and
and
obviously
that's
fine,
but
it
does
come
with
with
some
risks
and
sometimes
when
they're
putting
out
budgets
and
things
like
that.
For
us,
there
is
always
an
element
of
flexibility
there,
just
like
there's,
always
an
element
of
flexibility
with
with
the
candidates,
but
no,
I
prefer
to
have
involvement
in
in
the
office
stage.
Sometimes
I
do,
and
sometimes
it
works
perfectly.
D
A
Yeah
good
point
yeah,
that's
it
interesting
and
I
assume
is
part
of
that
process
somewhere
in
there
brian,
the
candidate
is
going
to
wind
up
with
a
number
when
he
gets
an
offer.
That
says:
hey
here's
your
base,
salary
around
that
all
the
other
stuff
has
to
come
into
play
on
the
benefit
side
right,
so
the
the
client
needs
to
measure
full
picture
right.
I
know
what
my
mortgage
payment
is.
A
E
Yeah,
ideally,
the
benefits
conversation
happens
and
later
on.
In
the
day,
the
hiring
manager
comes
in
with
the
actual
number
of
the
offer,
or
vice
versa,
but
they
want
to
get
two
touch
points
on
that
candidate
in
the
same
day.
So
they
understand
the
equity.
The
bonus,
the
sign
on
bonus,
the
base
annual
increases
pto,
all
that
stuff
401.
A
C
Guess
I
would
say
this:
I
won't
use
my
exam
because
I'm
different,
but
the
I
think
you
should
always
a
good
thing
to
ask
is
like.
Can
you
speak
to
somebody
like
you
know,
on
the
team
right
after
accepting
the
job
or
whatever
right,
depending
on
the
thing
right
and
ask
them
what
it's
actually
like,
because
some
companies
have
good
onboarding
some
companies
don't
have
good
onboarding
right
right.
You
know,
I
would
say
that
we
weren't,
very
good
at
ibm.
C
D
C
We
weren't
prepared
to
onboard
people
right.
We
were
just
working
at
rapid
pace,
right,
we
slowed
down
and
then
we're
prepared
to
onboard
people
right,
make
them
feel
included,
etc.
So
you
know
identify
whether
there's
a
process
or
not
for
onboarding.
When
you
get
there
and
then
you
know
find
a
you
know,
make
a
friend
you
know.
C
C
And
you
know:
you'll
have
to
go
through
that
and
you're
sort
of
like
hiring
experience
right,
they're
going
to
expect
you
to
get
started
like
right
away,
and
I
think
part
of
it
is
you
got
to
know
whether
or
not
you're
a
self-starter
or
not
right.
So
anyway,
I
would
say
so.
My
tip
is
be
prepared
right
to
think
about
what
your
90
days
are
going
to
be
at
any
given
company
as
part
of
your
decision-making
process.
D
Ben
yeah,
so
I
would
just
say
just
be
as
open
and
honest
as
you
can.
You
are
gonna
you're
gonna
have
problems.
You're
gonna
have
challenges
things
you're
not
used
to
at
your
comfort
zone,
different
methodologies,
ways
of
working.
It
is
completely
natural.
In
the
first
90
days,
don't
throw
in
the
towel.
You
will
hit
a
few
walls.
D
Keep
going
part
of
the
service
that
we
offer
as
a
recruitment
company
is
an
aftercare
service,
but
we
do
check
in
very
regularly
with
the
candidates
in
their
first
three
months,
because
those
are
the
times
where
they
are
most
prone
to
dropping
out
of
of
the
process.
And
you
know
after
after
a
couple
of
months
it
you
know
it.
It's
always
very
sad
to
see
it
does
happen,
but
we
just
try
and
mitigate
that
as
much
as
we
can
just
by
having
as
much
involvement
in
that
transition
into
the
new
role.
E
Well,
I
know
that
when
I
worked
in-house
when
I
was
a
corporate
recruiter
anytime,
we
brought
on
a
new
engineer.
We
gave
them
a
buddy
for
the
first
90
days,
so
hiring
managers
often
are
busy
in
meetings
or
whatever.
So
this
is
like
someone
dedicated
that's
going
to
literally
work
side
by
side
with
you
for
that
first
90
days,
so
that
a
new
hire
doesn't
feel
like
they're
on
their
own
island
and
they
don't
know
where
to
go
for
help.
A
Yeah
you
can,
especially
if
that
person
that
you're
budding
up
with
has
some
understanding
of
your
job
role.
They're
somewhat
related,
you
know
it's,
it
doesn't
help
me
it
probably
it
I
learned
about
the
company.
If
you
butting
me
up
with
somebody
who's
in
marketing
and
I'm
a
developer,
I
might
learn
a
lot
about
the
company,
but
I'm
probably
not
going
to
learn
a
lot
about
my
specific
job
and
how
to
be
successful.
But
if
you
have
people
that
are
in
my
domain,
my
area,
my
workspace,
my
team,
then
you're
right.
A
A
Yeah,
that's
a
great
thought:
okay,
cool!
That's
literally
one
last
thing,
as
just
I
thought
of
this
on
the
pandemic,
is
it
I
don't
need
a
long
answer
is
the
short
answer
you
know.
If
we
look
at
2019
say
there
was
an
old
world
and
now
we're
coming
in
we're
coming
out
of
a
pandemic
into
a
different
world,
any
quick
thoughts
gary
on
what
what's
different
about
about
jobs,
hiring
and
from
your
point
of
view,
after
the
pandemic.
Now.
C
I
would
say
that
they're,
really,
I
mean
the
the
short-term
ones.
Are
there
there's
just
some
that
were
short-term
right?
Some
people
aren't
right
back
to
a
hybrid
they're,
going
back
to
more
normal
or
whatever
right.
I'd
say.
You
know
longer
term,
there's
probably
more
of
a
sort
of
hybrid
market,
but
I
think
the
more
most
important
point
is:
there's
a
ton
of
companies
now
that
we're
never
hiring
remote
people
that
are
hiring
remote
people.
C
So
there's
a
lot
more
opportunity
out
there
right
and
you
see
that
across
the
board
right
and
that's-
and
that's
that's
that
that's
pretty
interesting
right,
because
you
now
have
you
don't
you
now
don't
no
longer
have
to
move
to
silicon
valley
to
work,
for
you
know,
companies
that
are
out
there
right.
So
it
really
expands
the
the.
A
Yeah,
that's
great
and
you're
right
from
the
company's
point
of
view
it
rapid.
When
they
did
say
we
would
accept
remote,
full-time
remote
with
some
travel.
Whatever
the
deal
is,
as
opposed
to
you
got
to
be
able
to
drive
to
the
office
within
an
hour.
Their
candidate
pool
goes
way
up
for
sure.
That's
a
big
deal
cool,
so
ben.
D
Yeah,
I
think
I
think
it's
a
gift
and
a
curse
with
the
remote
side
of
things
as
well,
because
so
many
more
companies
are
accepting
it
even
even
longer
term
now
sort
of
post
post
post
pandemic.
I
think
the
gift
and
the
curse.
What
I
mean
by
that
is
there's
going
to
be
so
much
more
choice
and
so
many
more
candidates.
But
then
you
are
you've
just
you're
up
against
so
much
more
competition.
A
E
E
So
you
have
to
understand
the
commute
and
the
parking,
and
is
that
something
you
want
to
do,
and
that's
a
big
thing
that
I
talk
to
candidates
about
because
it
does
come
up.
Can
it
be
remote
100?
I
don't
want
to
come
into
the
office.
You
know.
So
it's
going
to
be
the
hybrid
100,
remote
or
driving
into
the
office.
A
B
A
A
Yeah,
actually,
that's
a
great
point.
I
work
for
one
company,
maybe
the
best
software
company
ever
worked,
for
they
only
had
two
meetings
a
year.
That
was
it.
Everything
else
was
just
your
teams
working
and
they
literally
worked
with
you
didn't
have
to
be
together.
You
could
be
anywhere
in
the
world
and
they
networked
you
and
that
was
25
years
ago,
but
they
were
focused
on
the
idea
of
everybody
knew
what
everybody
was
doing
all
the
time
sound.
It
was
like
a
big
brother
kind
of
thing
you
didn't
have
to
ask.
A
You
didn't,
have
to
tell
it
a
time
sheet,
because
you're
all
connected
like
gary
was
saying
earlier,
instead
of
just
sort
of
casually
looking
at
your
repo,
we
had
an
automated
repository,
so
that
literally
touched
everything
and
everything
was
event
driven.
You
could
see
what
the
work
was.
You
know
what
the
backlog
was
and
you
didn't
need
somebody
sitting
there.
Looking
at
you
or
saying,
can
we
go
to
lunch
to
talk
about
this?
You
kind
of
knew
and
you
we
did
have
at
least
the
communication
tools
that
we're
using
today
that
make
that
easier,
too.
A
A
A
B
B
A
B
B
B
So
basically,
you
have
to
have
a
hiring
plan
and
it's,
in
my
opinion,
a
five-part
plan.
First,
you
have
to
figure
out
what
roles
and
what
jobs
you're
going
to
be
hiring
for
then
how
to
find
skilled
people
for
these
new
positions,
qualified
applicants-
and
how
long
is
this
process
going
to
take
a
gentleman
on
the
panel
before
was
mentioning
you
know?
Are
they
going
to
do
the
recruitment
and
the
interviews
in
the
same
week
month?
B
How
long
is
this
this
process
dragged
out
and
then,
most
importantly,
now
is
the
inclusivity
of
the
hiring
process.
So
first
is
what
are
the
rules
and
positions,
so
a
lot
of
the
popular
ones
that
are
mentioned
are
like
the
blockchain
developer,
administrator,
architect,
consultant
and
engineer,
so
those
are
really
the
most
blockchain
specific.
So,
oh
sorry,
so
when
we
talk
about
the
the
engineer,
that's
kind
of
the
person
who
is
deciding
the
frameworks,
how
is
it
going
to
be
structured?
What
smart
contracts
are
going
to
be
in
there?
B
How
are
they
going
to
be
built?
The
developer
again,
a
lot
of
these
jobs
overlap.
Now
this
is
the
one
who
has
to
have
the
language
in
their
belts
has
to
do
the
actual
coding
and
figure
out
the
structure.
What
blockchain
you're
going
to
use
private
public?
You
know
the
whole
nine
yards
decision
making
and
the
administrator
that's
more
looking
at
the
company
as
a
whole.
How
are
you
going
to
implement
this?
What's
your
tech
stack
going
to
be
look
like?
B
How
is
that
going
to
be
divvied
out
through
the
company's
existing
resources
and
the
consultant?
That's
more,
you
know:
can
this
blockchain
technology
work
in
my
company?
Is
this
project
even
viable?
How
are
we
going
to
devise
a
strategy
to
implement
a
blockchain
strategy
and
then
the
architect,
that's
the
one
who
like
does
the
actual
developing?
How
are
you
going
to
use
interfaces?
How
are
you
are
you
having
a
cloud
solution?
So,
there's
all
different
positions
that
are
available
and
then
there's
specific
trainings
that
go
with
these
specific
positions.
B
For
this
initiative
bc:
employee
we've
partnered
with
the
hyperledger
training
partner,
the
indian
blockchain
institute
and
they're,
offering
classes
for
specific
skills.
So
a
hyperledger
fabric
developer
would
be
able
to
design
a
fabric
solution,
a
certified
blockchain
architect
again
they
have
specific
job,
titles
and
job
duties
and
the
certifications
will
give
you
the
skills
needed
and
then
it
will
also
give
you
a
certificate
that
you
can
put
on
your
linkedin
or
wherever
to
show
that
you've
actually
had
those
skills.
B
Again
here
are
for
the
developer.
These
are
the
curriculum
topics
that
would
be
covered
in
the
classes.
Same
thing,
the
fabric
developer.
Again
it
just
marks
war
with
the
hyperledger
fabric
solution
and
the
administrator,
whereas
certified
blockchain
architect
works
with
all
different
blockchain
solutions,
not
just
one
specific
one
and
again
those
would
be
the
ways
that
companies
could.
B
You
know
train
employees
say
you
must
have
this
certification
from
a
verifiable
blockchain
educational
facility
and
there
are
a
few
reputable
facilities
again
like
the
indian
blockchain
institute
and
then
again,
where
are
the
qualified
applicants?
If
I
was
looking
for
someone
and
I
was
developing
a
fintech
solution,
I
would
go
to
the
hyperledger
working
group
for
trade
finance.
There's
a
capital
market
run.
They
have
these
meetings
every
week,
if
they're
open
to
the
public.
B
You
would
just
go
to
the
hyper
wiki.hyperledger.org
and
find
out
when
the
working
groups
meet
and
get
involved
in
the
community.
That
way
people
will
know
you
know
you
go
to
those
communities
and
you
see
who's.
The
hard-working
people
in
those
communities
start
a
conversation
with
them
and
see
if
they'd
be
interested
in
a
permanent
position.
B
Another
good
place
to
look
is
linkedin.
A
lot
of
people
have
on
their
linkedin
profiles
open
for
work,
and
you
can
search
different
variables
in
their
qualifications
to
see
if
they
fit
what
you
need
and
then
specific
employment
websites
like.
I
know
ours,
the
bc
employee
website.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
match.
B
B
A
lot
of
them
are
remote,
so
opportunities
are
all
over
where
to
find
the
qualified
applicants
again
we're
trying
to
not
only
get
them
opportunity
seekers
trained,
but
we're
trying
to
get
them
some
kind
of
experience
through
working
groups
again,
not
just
hyperledger
working
group,
that's
the
one
that
I'm
familiar
with,
but
consensus
has
working
groups.
The
gba
has
working
groups
everywhere,
you
you
know.
Big
companies
like
this
are
trying
to
get
solutions
going.
I
know
one
person
put
on
their
resume.
B
So
again
you
can
get
these
trainings.
Here's
definitions
for
you
of
what
the
different
jobs
are.
So
again,
there's
websites
out
there
for
opportunity
seekers
in
the
blockchain
market
and
there's
other
recruitment
tech
firms
that
are
out
there.
That
will
help
you
get
qualified
employees,
but
for
your
plan
itself,
it's
always
good
to
have
a
timeline.
So
say
you
have
a
hiring
for
project
blockchain
project
one.
Well,
you
have
to
figure
out
what
you're
going
to
need,
who
you're
going
to
need
to
hire.
What
positions
are
you
going
to
need
project
managers?
B
Like
where
are
the
needs
for
this
project,
and
then
where
are
you
going
to
recruit
the
qualified
applicants?
How
are
you
going
to
get
these
people
in
for
your
review
and
and
how
are
you
going
to
make
your
selections
and
you
should
put
it
in
a
timeline,
so
say
all
right
at
the
end
of
september
6,
whoever
applied
for
this
job?
B
There
are
so
many
things
that
companies
don't
realize
they
can
do
little
things
that
will
make
a
big
difference,
for
instance,
include
diverse
people
in
the
hiring
process.
Don't
just
have
the
same
makeup
of
the
people.
Hiring
and
doing
the
interviewing
have
diverse
people
interview
people
in
the
community
to
let
them
know
your
culture
is
accepting
of
all
groups,
all
kinds
address,
bias
and
subjectivity
in
the
interview
process.
There
are
some
words
that
women
will
steer
away
from
in
a
job
description.
B
Next
time
you
have
a
group
of
candidates
and
you're
going
for
a
process,
hide
all
their
identifying
data
and
just
give
the
resumes
to
the
cat
to
the
people
deciding
without
any
indicators
just
metadata
taken
out
and
just
what
their
qualifications
are
and
and
see.
If
that
makes
a
difference,
update,
again
update
your
job
description
to
avoid
gender
specific
language
like
gentlemen,
for
this
job,
will
you
don't
want
to
say,
gentlemen?
B
You
want
to
say
everyone
for
this
job
and
again,
the
diversity
of
the
talent
pool
will
directly
reflect
the
diversity
of
your
teams.
So
if
you're,
not
looking
at
diverse
people,
you're
not
going
to
have
that's
obvious
you're
not
going
to
have
diverse
teams
and
then
find
your
way
to
get
your
recruitment
strategy
to
people
that
you
usually
don't
go
to
different
social
media
groups.
Try
different
professional
organizations
that
usually
are
excluded
from
your
interview
process
and
look
for
professional
populations
in
locations.
B
You
generally
wouldn't
have
tried
to
pick
from
up
and
finally
publish
salary
ranges.
This
is
key
because
a
lot
of
women
and
a
lot
of
minorities
feel
that
that
changes
depending
on
their
job.
The
worst
thing
an
applicant
wants
to
see
on
an
application
is
what
are
your
salary
requirements?
It's
like.
I
don't
know.
What
are
you
going
to
pay
me?
B
B
I
have
a
lot
of
qualifications,
so
I
want
more
towards
the
end
of
that
range
or
to
the
beginning,
and
it
it
kind
of
makes
the
candidate
feel
like
they
have
a
level
playing
field
and
educate
your
team
on
your
diverse
policies,
make
sure
everyone
knows
that
you
are
looking
for
an
inclusive
and
diverse
workforce
and
then
that's
it,
for
I
think
we're
on
questions.
Let
me
see
if
I
have
our
questions
and
answer
slide
there.
We
go
so
basically,
that's
just
a
hiring
plan
to
get
rolling
on
a
project.
A
Thank
you
bobby.
That
was
awesome,
and
I
knew
I
wanted
to
hear
from
you
because
some
of
the
stuff
is
you
can
find
anywhere,
but
some
of
the
ideas
you
brought
up,
especially
about
inclusion,
you
really
pulled
them
together
very
well
to
come
up
with
the
same
information,
would
take
a
long
time
for
most
of
us,
so
that
was
really
really
good.
Let
me
ask
briefly:
I
looked
at
the
chat
a
little
bit.
There
was
a
lot
of
discussion
in
there.
B
A
Haven't
heard
any
so
I
think
mostly
I
it
to
the
credit
of
the
panelists
I'll
say
they
covered
an
awful
lot
for
the
time
we
went
through,
which
was
actually
much
longer
than
I
thought
we
were
gonna
take,
and
that's
probably
my
fault,
but
appreciate
the
fact
that
gary
ben
and
brian
all
stuck
with
it
for
the
whole
time
giving
us
their
input
and
so
on.
I
know
gary
had
to
leave
so
he's
gone
and
ben.
I
want
to
thank
you
and
brian.
A
The
two
of
you
were
fantastic
as
panelists
gary
was
tremendous
as
well.
What
I
would
ask
ben
and
brian,
is
we're
gonna.
Obviously,
this
whole
presentation
is
gonna,
get
published
up
on
youtube
in
the
hyperledger
channel.
We're
also
gonna
wind
up
publishing
the
slide
deck
as
well
up
to
bc
employee.
So
is
there
anything
I'll,
say,
ben
bryan
that
you
want
to
send
me
that
I
can
add
to
the
slide
deck
specifically
about
yourselves
or
your
company,
because
I'd
be
happy
to
do
that.
D
A
Okay,
yeah
so
brian,
if
you're
on
mute
but
bobby,
did
point
out
that
this
is
a
series.
We
have
two
more
coming
up
the
session
three
princeton
one
and
then
finally,
the
job,
fair
and
bobby.
Who
again
is
the
expert
on
most
things?
What
will
explain
that?
But
I
think
the
neatest
thing
about
the
job:
fair
idea:
it's
not
necessarily
that
you're
going
to
go
to
the
job,
fair
and
somebody's
going
to
say
great
I'll
hire
you.
A
But
the
idea
is
we're,
hopefully
going
to
have
enough
input
there
from
a
wide
variety
of
resources
that,
if
you're
a
candidate,
you
should
be
able
to
talk
to
people
and
get
a
much
better
perspective,
maybe
one-on-one,
or
at
least
one
on
a
couple
on
what
you're
trying
to
do.
People
can
listen
to
you
and
give
you
some
real
direct
feedback.
If,
if
that's
helpful
so
bobby
back
to
you,.
B
Yeah,
and
also
for
the
job
fair
for
anyone
who's
on
this
call,
who
will
be
needing
a
pipeline,
filled
we'd
love
for
you
to
have
a
table
at
the
job
fair
to
meet
the
people
who
would
be
candidates.
So
please
reach
out
to
me
if
you're
interested
in
that-
and
we
just
have
a
few
announcements
to
make
tomorrow.
B
There's
a
lot
going
on
in
the
community
first
well,
mine
comes
at
noon,
is
the
giving
chain
project
and,
if
you're,
not
familiar
with
that,
that
is
a
social
impact,
blockchain
project
that
is
this
year,
sponsored
by
the
linux
foundation's
mentorship
program.
So
I
do
have
a
mentor
on
this
program.
This
is
a
picture
from
2019
when
we
won
the
big
apps
blockchain
challenge
honorable
mention
and
the
governing
blockchain
award
for
social
impact.
B
This
infrastructure
backbone
would
be
available
for
people
who
need
to
get
donations
to
recipients,
and
this
year
we're
doing
three
projects
at
the
same
time.
Last
year,
we
just
did
one
project
to
the
farmers
to
the
food
banks
in
the
princeton
area
this
year.
We're
doing
that
project
as
well
as
aid
to
flood
victims
in
india
and
as
well
as
the
humanitarian
crisis
for
women
in
india.
Right
now
for
hygiene
products,
they
just
there's
no
supply
chains
for
them,
so
this
year,
we're
taking
on
those
three
projects.
B
If
you're
interested
in
learning
more
join
us
tomorrow,
we
meet
every
friday
at
noon.
Also,
tomorrow
we
have
jim
is
doing
at
10
o'clock.
His
public
sector
group
is
hosting
the
non-fungible
tokens,
which
is
a
new
field
in
blockchain.
It's
the
hottest
topic
jim.
Do
you
have
any
comments
on
your
event
tomorrow,.
A
Yeah,
I'm
actually
counting
on
a
wide
ranging
intelligent
audience,
bringing
all
of
their
use
cases
and
their
experience
my
presentation
to
actually
add
to
it,
because
I
don't
intend
to
cover
it
all
by
myself.
So
I
guess
the
opportunity
is
to
hear
from
a
lot
of
people.
The
threat
is,
if
you
show
up,
I
might
ask
you
questions
so
certainly,
everybody's
welcome.
A
It
is
an
interesting
area
in
a
lot
of
ways.
I
I
spend
more
time
in
the
legal
aspects
I
work
with
the
european
blockchain.
We
were
doing
work
and
one
I
was
on
the
legal
team,
not
the
regular
nft
team,
but
we
do
sort
of
have
a
fair
amount
of
information,
but
it's
a
strange
place
because,
unlike
some
things
like
blockchain
came
out
of
cryptocurrency
sort
of
very
slowly
and
moved
into
the
rest
of
the
world
in
other
applications
over
a
number
of
years
with
nft,
it's
not
like
that.
You
know.
A
Yes,
somebody
created
an
art
piece
as
nft,
but
nft
literally
is
like
sort
of
there's
no
normal
progression
for
this.
It's
popping
up
on
a
one
by
one
case,
all
over
the
place,
so
somebody
says:
oh,
I
could
make
this
an
nft
and
tomorrow,
hopefully
we'll
give
you
some
ideas
on
that
and
try
to
pull
in
some
experience
and
some
ideas
from
the
audience
as
well.