►
Description
Often the boundaries and uses of public and private blockchain networks are blurred. Join our guest speaker Anthony (Developer Advocate, Digital Asset) to sit down and talk about when you'd choose one type of network over the other and how different choices make sense for different applications and requirements.
More about the event is at: https://www.meetup.com/Hyperledger-NYC/events/277530956/
----
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A
But
appreciate
y'all
joining
today,
so
we
have
anthony
lucerti
from
digital
asset
here
again
to
talk
about
when
to
use
digital
asset,
modeling
language,
demo,
smart
contracts
and
really
going
into
do.
They
need
to
be
public,
permissionless
and
centralized,
and
we're
very
grateful
that
he's
here
today
and
anthony
I'll
hand
it
off
to
you
now
yeah
awesome
yeah.
Thank
you
very
much
everybody
for
having
me
here
thanks
chris
for
helping
me
put
it
together
and
david
as
well.
A
I
really
appreciate
getting
the
opportunity
to
talk
about
these
things,
which
is
less
about
damos,
specifically,
except
at
the
end,
talk
a
little
bit
about
it
and
more
about
you
know.
When
do
we
need
our
smart
contracts
to
be
public,
permissionless
and
decentralized,
and
also,
I
would
caveat
one
small
small
thing
there
is
that
demo
actually
doesn't
stand
for
anything
anymore.
So
it's
really
just
a
demo.
A
A
So
I'll
drop
my
email
in
the
chat
and
if
you
are
one
of
those
people,
this
is
basically
on
the
honor
system.
Just
email
me
with
and
I'll
I'll
get
back
to
you
with
all
the
info.
I
need
in
order
to
to
get
you
your
shirt,
but
anyway
that's
my
email
address
and
yeah.
Let's
get
started
so
to
answer
my
question
for
myself
at
least,
I
would
say
that
some
of
our
smart
contracts
absolutely
need
to
be
public,
permissionless
and
decentralized,
but
all
of
them
don't
and
I'll
disclaim.
A
A
I'm
definitely
approaching
this
from
a
aspect
where
I
think
that
these
technologies
coexist
and
they
accomplish
largely
different
goals
from
each
other,
but
they,
but
on
the
more
private
side,
it
happens
to
be
inspired
by
the
public
side,
but
does
some
things
a
little
different,
and
so
that
leads
me
to
the
first
question
for
the
audience
and
since
this
is
a
hyper
ledger
audience,
I
imagine
some
people
might
have
thoughts
on
this.
So,
if
you
do,
you
know,
can
you
maybe
I'll
give
you
a
moment
to
think
about
it?
A
A
All
right,
no
takers,
so
I'll
I'll,
actually
I'll,
say
mine,
then,
and
if
anybody
comes
up
with
anything
in
between
then
feel
free
to
chime
in,
but
anyway,
it's
in
my
mind.
It's
because
decentralization
doesn't
really
solve
every
problem
and
really,
unless
your
asset
on
a
public
network
is
fully
issued
by
it
and
enforced
by
it
by
the
network
itself.
Decentralization
would
actually
leave
you
in
a
situation
where
applications
become
much
more
costly
in
their
operation,
much
more
exploitable
and
aren't
really
providing
the
guarantees
that
you
expect
applications
to
provide.
A
As
we
see
fairly
regularly
in
the
news-
and
you
know
you
lose
out
on
those
guarantees,
so
that
that
is
unfortunate
for
a
lot
of
different
applications
and
then
further
when
it
comes
to
public
chains,
what
we're
really
seeing
is
a
very
narrow
band
of
applications,
succeed
particularly
financial
applications,
and
we
don't
really
see
much
else
and
my
own
feeling
on
why.
That
is-
and
I
think
that
this
is
actually
well
supported
by
the
facts
as
I'll
show
on
the
next
slide.
Is
public
blockchains
need
transaction
fees?
A
There's
a
lot
of
claims
out
there
that
you
can
get
rid
of
them,
but
it
is
my
opinion
and
quite
a
well
accepted
one
that
transaction
fees
are
needed
for
public
blockchains
because
they
incentivize
the
block
producers
to
sustain
the
blockchain
to,
and
they
also
help
prevent
spam
and
because
they
encourage
a
wide
amount
amount
of
block
reducers.
They
provide
security
to
the
network.
So
these
transaction
fees
are
actually
very
necessary
and
transaction
fees
are
going
to
be
a
core
part
of
why
you
would
use
private
chains.
A
A
A
It
becomes
when
you're
doing
large
applications
on
them.
It
becomes
very
cost
prohibitive
because
cost
fluctuates
so
much
not
so
much
with
value
transfers,
because
they're
so
small,
but
as
your
transaction
gets
more
and
more
complex,
it
just
becomes
more
and
more
costly
and
then
that
will
itself
be
a
factor
that
compounds
based
on
the
congestion
of
the
network.
A
As
you
can
see
even
right
now
it
costs
about
15
just
to
swap
a
token
on
ethereum,
and
that's
basically,
all
I'm
going
to
talk
about
application
specifics
here.
But
it's
something
to
keep
in
mind
that
public
blockchains
have
really
limited
themselves
to
these
things
by
necessity,
which
is
which
is
fine.
I
mean
it's
a
huge
space
in
in
general,
but
it
doesn't
really
leave
room
for
some
other
creativity,
and
so
I
have
another
question
for
the
audience
and
really
I
wanted
to
know.
What
do
you
think
then?
A
A
Absolutely
that's
a
well
that
that's
a
pro
on
the
private
side,
because
you
get
to
well
both
you
get
to
run
your
notes,
but
you
actually
get
full
control
over
how
your
note
is
structured
rather
than
having
to
be
very
broadcasty
talking
to
the
entire
world
and
yeah
jess
also
says
you
know
where
trust
needs
to
exist
versus
where
it
needs
to
be
developed.
That's
also
true.
That's
that's
another
trade-off.
A
A
You
can't
really
predict
next
month
what
your
costs
are
going
to
look
like,
because
you're
at
the
behest
of
the
other,
all
the
other
participants
in
the
network
and
also
yes,
interop
is
much
easier
because,
while
there
is
still
there
are
still
elements
of
trust
in
a
private
network
that
actually
makes
it
so
that
you
can
interrupt
in
much
more
traditional
ways,
it's
actually
very
hard
for
two
public
chains
to
truly
trustlessly,
as
they
would
really
need
to.
You
know:
transfer
assets
between
themselves.
A
There
are
a
variety
of
schemes,
but
really
much
much
simpler,
interoperability
there.
So
yeah,
that's
another
great
point
and
yeah.
So
one
of
the
things
I
had
here
is
simpler,
upgrade
authority.
So
really,
like
I
mentioned
earlier,
even
on
permissionless
ledgers
centralization
is
a
major
upgrades,
are
a
major
source
of
centralization.
A
A
That,
by
necessity,
is
going
to
be
controlled
by
a
small
group
of
people
or
an
equally
small
group
of
large
token
holders-
and
this
is
true
in
both
public
and
private
chains,
there
will
be
upgrade,
there's
different
ways
of
structuring
it,
such
that
you
know,
people
can
selectively
upgrade
and
opt
into
upgrading,
also
again
on
both
public
and
private
chains.
That's
actually
kind
of
the
methods
that
we
recommend
with
demo
ourselves
and
that
a
lot
of
other
people
are
doing.
A
I
know
in
a
variety
of
languages
and
on
other
platforms,
but
that's
always
something
to
consider.
Is
that
upgrades
introduce
centralization
in
some
way
to
some
degree,
and
it
largely
is
the
same
across
public
and
private
chains,
except
when
you're
talking
about
base
layer
upgrades,
and
so
then,
in
that
case
you
know
having
this
authority
rather
than
having
it,
be
abstracted
deep
in
a
smart
contract
and
rely
on
very
new
untested
forms
of
governance.
You
can
actually
just
have
a
very
simple.
A
A
But
privacy
really
really
opens
up
that
window
maximum
to
the
most
amount
of
people
who
would
be
capable
of
exploiting
this
now
current
now
are
now
are
able
to,
and
so
on,
private
ledgers.
You
actually
get
quite
strong
permissions
on
on
who
has
shared
on
what
is
shared
with
who
and
when
and
later
I'll,
actually
show
you
how
that's
achieved
in
tamil
and
also,
similarly,
trust
is
made
explicit.
A
Well,
you
don't
have
that
layer,
because
you
are
trading
off
and
getting
get,
putting
a
little
more
trust
in
the
system
and
that
greatly
reduces
your
operational
costs.
Also
is
going
to
make
them
much
more
predictable.
You'll
know
if
I'm
putting
through
this
many
transactions
on
average.
It's
going
to
cost
me
this
much
if
I
suddenly
need
to
burst
and
increase
my
capacity
to
do
10
times
more
than
that,
I
know
roughly
how
much
that's
going
to
cost
me,
whereas
on
a
public
chain.
A
A
A
But,
of
course,
that's
also
now
exactly
what
we
mean
when
we're
talking
about
permissionless
public
chains.
So
what
we
mean
there
is
that
anyone
anywhere
on
a
permissionless
chain
can
access
the
contract
as
long
as
they
can
pay
the
transaction
fee
to
do
so.
This
is
not
something
that's
possible
on
private
blockchains.
You
know
you
can
create
really
open
a
low
permission,
federated
entities
with
it,
but
you
cannot
entirely
remove
the
permissioning
of
it.
A
So
it's
really
worth
considering
whether
or
not
your
public
and
permissionless
application,
and
probably
less
probably
applies
less
so
for
the
hyperledger
side,
but
really
it's
worth
considering
whether
or
not
you
need
these
things.
If
you
truly
need
permissionlessness,
which
will
give
you
the
next
point,
censorship
resistance,
then
you
want
a
public
permissionless
chain
and
so
with
censorship
resistance.
A
You
know
you
can.
There
is
the
argument
that
you
even
public-
even
sorry,
even
private
chains,
are
censorship
resistant
because
you
can
go
ahead
and
deprive
deploy
your
own
private
ledger
and
nobody
else
can
stop
you.
It's
not
censorship
resistant
in
the
way
people
talk
about
it
in
the
public
space,
where
really
any
node
can
choose
to
exclude
any
other
node,
and
you
know
they
have.
A
They
have
positives
and
trade-offs
to
that
or
any
node
can
choose
to
exclude
any
other
party
and
there
there's
positives
and
negatives
to
that,
but
it
is
possible,
whereas
with
the
public
chain,
it's
not
so
those
are
really
the
two
major
things
that
you
won't
be
able
to
get
in
the
in
the
private
blockchain
space.
You
know
you
can
still
receive.
A
You
can
still
get
to
a
very
high
degree
of
censorship,
resistance
in
in
a
private
blockchain
somewhat,
but
not
anywhere
near
the
same
degree.
You
will
in
a
public
one
and
there's
actually
quite
a
lot
of
detail
there
that
I
think,
would
probably
take
up
the
rest
of
this
talk.
So,
let's
just
leave
it
at
that
for
right
now,
and
so
now
I
just
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
demo
itself
and
kind
of
what
the
pros
and
cons
of
it
are
so
or
really
the
pros
of
demo.
A
A
A
A
Where
I
said
you
know,
if
you
need
to
trust
somebody
in
part
of
your
business
application,
then
you
should
at
least
make
sure
you're
explicit
about
it,
and
this
really
like
make
sure
that
you
can
specify
who
can
read,
who
can
write
and
who
can
execute
on
this
smart
contract
without
other
parties
being
able
to
read,
write
or
execute
if
they're
not
allowed
to,
and
you
also
get
a
lot
of
platform,
flexibility
and
interoperability.
As
just
mentioned
earlier
code.
A
The
platform
that
it's
running
on
will
be
used
for
its
data,
persistence
and
consensus,
which
are
very,
very
valuable
parts
of
this
whole
equation.
But
then
you
then
also
have
the
flexibility
and
the
ability
to
interrupt
with
other
other
platforms
or
even
just
other
nodes,
running
running
running
the
same
same
software
as
well
and
yeah.
A
Lastly,
there's
really
no
need
for
reconciliation,
and
this
is
one
of
the
biggest
pros
of,
I
would
say,
blockchains
in
general,
in
the
space,
and
I
think
when
you
boil
it
down
like
when
people
talk
about
using
blockchains,
to
solve
business
problems.
What
they're
really
talking
about
is
the
fact
that
there
are
all
these
people
out
there
who
desperately
desperately
want
to
work
together
on
a
business
problem
and
what
they
end
up
with
is.
If
you
keep
a
copy
of
your
data,
your
client
keeps
a
copy
of
their
data.
It's
not
in
the
same
format.
A
It's
not
following
the
same
schema.
It
doesn't
have
the
same
exact
expectations.
You
could
imagine
if
you
were
to
give
five
programmers
the
same
exact,
rf
c
and
say,
implement
this
spec
such
that
it
could
such
that
it
could
such
that
these
applications
can
interoperate
with
each
other
of
those
five
programmers.
You
might
get
back
six
or
seven
different
implementations.
A
A
So,
like
I
said
before,
you
know,
demo
has
these
abilities
to
say
who
can
sign
off
on
my
contract.
This
is
like
a
signatory
to
a
real
life
contract
that
you
would
sign
on
a
piece
of
paper.
This
is
the
person
authorizing
it.
These
are
observers.
These
are
who
you
share
the
contract
with
such
that
they
can
see
it,
and
you
know
you
can
have
guarantees
of
things.
A
Can
you
can
enforce
any
sort
of
prerequisites
that
you
want
essentially,
and
then
you
can
be
very
explicit
about
who
can
do
what,
when
with
the
contract
so,
for
example,
to
accept
a
beer
iou,
that's
over
here,
the
recipient
can
actually
choose
to
accept
it
and
go
ahead
and
create
that
actual
obligation
or
the
recipient
can
go
ahead
and
reject
it
and
essentially
archive
this
contract.
All
this
little
function
down
here
does:
is
it
archives
the
contract?
A
Actually
this
is
all
the
code
to
my
front
end,
I'm
not
the
best
at
writing
front
end
code.
Maybe
somebody
could
write
somewhat
neater
code
than
me
and
obviously
this
presentation
is
very
clear
because
it
was
too
much
to
fit
on
a
slide,
but
it
does
show
you
that
you
get
quite
a
lot
for
free
such
that
you
can
have
a
full
featured
application
with
very,
very
little
behind
it
other
than
the
business
logic
here.
You
know
right
now,
you'll
notice
we
haven't
worked
with.
We
haven't
worried
about
our
data.
A
A
All
that
is
free,
and
I
think
that's
pretty
great,
and
yes
so
in
conclusion-
and
obviously
if
anybody
has
any
comments
or
questions,
you
know
we
have.
We
still
have
a
bit
of
time
here,
but
I'd
say
not.
Everything
needs
to
be
public
and
really
in
most
interactions.
You
do
end
up
trusting
someone,
so
you
might
as
well
be
explicit
about
it
and
yeah.
That's
my
talk.
A
If
oh
just
asking
the
question
here
is
demo
hosted
as
a
platform
or
simply
a
programming
language,
it's
actually
both
so
demo
itself
when
I
referring
to
demo
for
the
most
part,
I'm
referring
to
the
programming
language,
but
we
also
have
a
essentially
an
sdk
on
top
of
it
that
we
call
democonnect-
and
that
includes
your
json
api
grpc
api.
It
includes
a
bunch
of
tooling
to
help.
You
develop
your
applications.
A
It
includes
code
generator
tools
that
can
make
sense
of
your
demo
code
itself
and
make
interfaces
such
that
your
user
interface
can
easily
hook
into
it
in
both
javascript
and
java
and
a
lot
of
other
stuff,
and
then
yes,
there
are
also
places
to
host
and
deploy
demo
code,
so
we
have
hub.demo.com
and
that
we
also
have
a
bunch
of
partners.
You
know
at
vmware,
oracle
and
other
places
where
you
can
go
ahead
and
use
them
as
well,
and
so
can
I
talk
a
bit
more
about
interoperability.
A
A
Have
them
communicate
across
either
the
same
blockchain
like
if
you
have
two
fabric
nodes
and
you
want
to
interrupt
between
them
or
between
completely
different
ones.
So
if
you
want
your
fabric
node
to
talk
to
your
sawtooth,
node
and
they're,
both
running
demo,
smart
contracts,
canton
will
be
able
to
to
do
that.
So
you
can
actually
check
it
out
at
canton.io
and
you
can
also
visit
bit.leash.
A
Try,
demo
and
that'll
get
you
to
a
forum
post
on
our
fairly
active
forum,
where
we
have
a
bunch
of
links
to
these
things.
I
I
don't
know
if
the
canton
was
there,
so
I'm
going
to
add
that
immediately
after
this
call
but
yeah
it's
a
it's
a
great
resource
to
start
off
with
there
and
polly
has
a
question:
can
evm
and
demo
be
run
simultaneously
or
is
it
either
or
say
on
best
suit?
Condemn
will
be
run
on
public
ux
utxo
chains.
So
that's
there's
a
lot
there.
A
A
So
you
know
you
could
always
rig
up
a
compatibility
layer
or
something
there,
but
I
would
say
that
in
general,
when
you're
trying
to
do
these
things,
like
once
you've
committed
to
using
your
demo
code,
it's
not
going
to
be
insert
able
to
interrupt
with,
or
it's
not
going
to
be
able
to
freely
interrupt
with
non-demo
code.
You'll
you'll
need
to
either
have
a
compatibility
layer
there
or
I'd
actually
recommend
you
know
porting
your
code
over.
A
If
you
actually
tried
it
out,
you
might
find
that
it's
actually
pretty
easy
to
do
and
can
demo
be
run
on
public
utxo
chains.
The
short
answer
to
that
is
yes,
of
course,
because
demo
doesn't
care
about
where
it's
persisting.
Data,
but
again
demo
is
just
is
not
actually
wouldn't
actually
be
executing
on
those
chains
wouldn't
be
giving
you
the
trustless
properties
of
those
chains.
It
would
be
writing
data
to
those
chains
that
then
other
people
could
read
off
of
and
maybe
connect
their
own
runtime
too.
A
Yes,
absolutely
so
demo
can
like
pretty
much
anything
else
out
there
interact
with
whatever
you
want.
You
know
you
would
just
need
to
make
it
talk
to
the
json
api
or
grpc
api
and
yeah.
You
could
have
a
hybrid
model
like
that.
Oh,
we
also
have
a
question
from
youtube.
Thanks
steve,
so
hamza
says:
can
we
consider
smart
contracts
used
by
only
one
participant
on
a
private
network?
A
Let's
say
three
participants
are
there
and
each
has
their
own
smart
contracts?
No
one
else
is
using.
Is
this
a
valid
use
case
yeah?
I
can't
see
why
that
wouldn't
be
a
valid
use
case.
That's
actually
one
nice
benefit
of
download,
too,
is
that
you
can
go
ahead
and
deploy
the
single
node
and
a
variety
of
people
can
use
it
for
completely
different
applications,
and
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
your
node
being
application
specific.
A
A
And
yeah
any
other
questions
right
now,
thanks
again
anthony
that
was
that
was
really
informative
and
thank
you,
everyone
who
who
asked
questions
a
lot
of
good,
constructive
discussion
here
yeah
absolutely.
This
is
great,
got
a
lot
of
great
questions
again
before
everybody
leaves
and
I'll
actually
say
it.
My
email
address
is
anthony.lucerti
digitalasset.com,
that's
a
n-t-h-o-n-y
dot
l-u-s-a-r-d-I
at
digitalasset.com.
A
If
you
asked
a
question,
this,
of
course
will
be
on
the
honor
system.
Please
go
ahead
and
email
me
and
I
will
make
sure
you
get
your
t-shirt.
You
know
we
do
have
some
pretty
cool
ones
in
my
opinion,
but
yeah
thanks
chris
and
david
for
having
me
and
thanks
everybody
for
for
listening
and
asking
such
great
questions.