►
Description
A recording of a panel discussion on Saturday, December 17 from Noida as part of the Blockchain TechFest 2022 hosted by the Hyperledger India Chapter.
Moderator: Vikram Sharma, Blockchain Practice Lead, HCL Technologies
Panelists:
Sandeep Shukla, Professor, CSE, IIT Kanpur
Naresh Jain, Co-founder, Snapper Future Tech
Prasanna Lohar, CEO, Block Stack
Deepak Ghadke, Co-Founder, Stealth Blockchain Startup
----
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
A
Thank
you,
everyone
for
joining
us
at
blockchain,
Tech
Fest.
For
this
you
know
panel
discussion
on
the
topic
of
emerging
teams
in
blockchain,
ESG,
tokenization
and
metaverse
I.
Have
you
know?
I
am
Vikram
Sharma.
You
know
moderator
for
this
parallel
discussion
and
in
my
professional
life,
I
lead.
You
know
blockchain
practice
at
HCL
and
I'm.
A
You
know
the
community
with
you
know:
Meetup
organizations
as
well
so
I
have
with
me.
You
know
four
of
the
esteemed
panelists.
You
know
best
in
the
industry
that
we
could
have
right.
Each
of
them
has
you
know
such
strong
credentials
that
you
know
it
would
have
taken.
You
know
me
a
complete
hour
if
you
know
if,
if
I
were
to
do
them,
Justice
right,
so
please
excuse
me
for
that
and
I'll
just
introduce
them,
and
then
probably
you
know
they
can.
You
know,
introduce
them
better.
You
know,
but
I
suppose
you
know.
A
I
I'll
definitely
miss
out
on
some
of
those
details.
So
I
have
with
me,
starting
with
Professor
Sandeep
Shukla.
So
Sandeep
is
you
know,
IEEE
fellow
and
ACM
distinguished
scientist.
He
is
currently
professor
of
computer
science
and
engineering
at
IIT
kanpur,
which
he
had
it.
You
know
during
2017
to
2020
before
joining
IIT
kanpur.
You
know
he
was
you
know
a
professor
at
Virginia
Tech
USA
and
he
is
currently
associate
directors
of
ACM
transactions
on
Cyber
physical
systems
and
general
of
British
blockchain
Association
welcome
Professor
Sandeep.
B
You
want
to
thank
you
for
inviting
me
to
the
panel
and
thank
you
for
the
introduction.
I
am
running
the
national
blockchain
project
funded
by
the
national
cyber
security
coordinates
office
since
2018,
and
we
have
been.
We
have
developed
a
number
of
Solutions
which
are
actually
deployed
like
the
land
registry,
on
blockchain,
in
Karnataka
and
in
procurement
solution
in
Karnataka.
We
also
have
a
self-serving
identity,
blockchain,
which
is
used
for
giving
credential
verifiable
credentials,
and
mostly
it
currently,
it
is
being
used
for
providing
degrees
of
IIT
kanpur
IIT
in
the
ignou.
B
A
Yes,
thank
you
Professor
Sandeep,
so
next
we
have
with
us.
Naresh
Jain
is
co-founder
at
Snapper
future
attack
with
more
than
three
decades
of
Industry
experience
with
more
than
two
decades
of
management
and
I.T
Consulting.
So
naresh
is
also
a
proud
entrepreneur
and
investor
in
blockchain
technology,
and
he
has
you
know,
multi-domain
expertise
and
various
accolades
and
certifications
to
his
name.
So
welcome
naresh,
a
couple
of
words
from
you.
C
Thank
you
Vikram,
and
thank
you
for
inviting
me
for
this,
as
a
panelist
I'll
be
glad
to
share
my
whatever
knowledge
I
have
gathered
in
last
five
and
a
half
years
so
currently,
as
a
company,
we
are
really
doing
a
lot
of
innovative
work.
We
are
hypology
certified
service
provider
and,
as
such
we
are
working
on
multiple
blocking
framework,
but
it's
all
across
industry,
different
kind
of
use,
cases
and
products
and
train.
All
of
that.
Thank.
A
You
yes
welcome
and
then
next
we
have
with
us
prasanna
loha.
So
he
see
you
at
block
start
and
is
practicing
blockchain
research,
digital
transformation
and
Innovation
implementation.
So
he
has
a
vision
to
make
India
a
hub
for
blockchain
and
web
3.0.
He
is
also
director
at
Association
of
emerging
Technologies
in
India,
and
previously
he
was
also
CIO
for
DCB
Bank.
Welcome
prasanna
to
the
conversation
couple
of
words
from
you.
D
A
So
he
is
co-founder
at
stealth,
blockchain,
startup
and
co-founder
at
Master,
mentors
advisory.
You
know
private
limited,
a
blockchain,
Consulting
and
developing
company
in
partnership
with
natsoft.
He
comes
with
25
years
of
experience
across
Industries,
his
passion
for
blockchain
and
its
potential
to
change
the
the
business
environment
led
him
to
you
know:
blockchain
ecosystem
I'll.
Let
him
introduce
himself
and
you
know,
on
the
points
that
I
might
have
missed.
B
B
The
pilot
I
think
we
are
seeing
going
to
see
an
incredible
growth
in
terms
of
cbdc
implementation,
as
well
as
G20
presidency,
where
we
are
currently
hosting
the
G20
people
who
are
based
of
Indian,
and
there
are
some
good
newses
which
are
coming
through
Feeling.
By
end
of
this
presidency,
we
will
achieve
a
lot
and
thanks
a
lot
for
that.
A
Yes,
welcome,
Deepak,
and
so
you
know
I'll,
you
know
in
Trust
of
time.
I'll
you
know
I
would
you
know
get
started
with
our
you
know
discussion.
So
the
theme
for
today
is
emerging
themes
in
blockchain,
ESG,
tokenization
and
metaverse.
So
to
start
with
ESG,
so
I
would
you
know
so
I
see
that
you
know
many
of
the.
You
know
my
industry
leaders
and
everyone
is
talking
about
ESG,
right
and
so
on.
Observing
you
know
the
blockchain
happenings
in
business,
so
sustainability
has
become.
A
You
know
a
center
point
and
sort
of
Center
focus
for
everyone
and
I
think
you
know.
In
coming
years
we
are
going
to
see
you
know
a
lot
when
it
comes
to.
You
know
sustainability,
so
it
is
actually
a
good
thing
in
that
you
know
the
focus
is
coming
over
there.
So
I
want
to
hear
AR
views,
Professor
Sandeep,
that
how
do
you
believe
that
you
know
ESG
is
going
to
the
focus
on
ESG
is
going
to?
You
know,
build
us
for
the
future
and
how
blockchain
can
help
us.
B
Yeah,
so
sustainability
and
environment
is
becoming
more
important
every
day
because
of
global
warming
and
and
population
explosion,
and
so
on,
and
there
are
certain
things
that
various
governments
are
bringing
on:
for
example,
carbon
credit.
They
are
talking
about
water
saving,
they're
talking
about
you,
know,
various
kinds
of
credits
for
for
doing
sustainable
practices
and
environmental
friendly
industrial
practices.
B
So
a
few
months
ago,
I
was
talking
to
a
company
that
does
sensors
for
Water
Systems
in
the
industry
and
they
have
iot
based
sensors
through
which
they
actually
metered
the
amount
of
water
they
actually
use
and
and
save,
and
they
actually
were
talking
about
using
those
iot's
to
actually
give
create
a
credit
system
for
water
saving
practices
over
a
blockchain.
The
reason
why
you
use
why
they
wanted
to
use
blockchain
is
because
right
now,
which
is
currently
it
is
self-reporting
system.
Now
the
self-reporting
system
may
or
may
not
be.
B
You
know
transport
the
and
therefore,
if
the
iot
devices
can
directly
put
the
the
data
on
the
blockchain
and
that
data
can
be
actually
then
used
for
analytics,
then
one
can.
Actually.
The
government,
as
well
as
public
in
general,
can
actually
have
a
view
on
how
the
water,
sustainable
practices
of
water
usage,
especially
industries,
that
are
very
intensive
in
water
usage,
can
do
that.
Similarly,
I
know
a
number
of
companies
that
are
using
carbon
credit
system
on
blockchain.
B
So
I
I
see
that
there
is
a
movement
for
this
environmental
and
sustainability
practices
to
be
transparent
to
Common,
People
and
the
government
so
that
the
regulations
are
complied
with,
as
well
as
the
reputation
of
the
organizations
can
be
actually
put
out
to
public
in
a
very
trustworld
demand.
So
I
think
there
is
a
lot
of
scope
of
blockchain
in
this
space
and
there
are
a
lot
of
movement
in
that
direction
and
I
think
more
movements
will
come
so
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
good
practices
of
blockchain.
A
You
know
I
couldn't
agree
more
on.
You
know
that
self-reporting
it
will
continue
to
pose
challenges,
and
you
know
so
iot
based
you
know,
reporting
is
important
and
use
a
blockchain
for
transparency
is
also
you
know.
Very.
You
know
important
in
my
at
least
in
my
view,
and
you
know,
if
I
leave,
that
you
know
the
continent
of
Antarctica
I.
Think
in
rest,
all
of
the
you
know,
continents
I've
been
having.
You
know,
conversations
with
customers,
or
you
know
you
know
working
on.
You
know
you
know
Mass
sustainability
and
ESG.
You
know
methods.
A
C
All
right,
first
of
all,
let
me
start
by
saying
iot
and
blockchain.
Definitely
both
are
going
to
play
a
big
role,
no
doubt
about
that
and
there,
because
the
major
challenge
what
we
are
facing
today,
we
are
going
to
face
because
it
just
started.
We
are
targeting
2050
for
now,
Net
Zero
carbon,
for
that
for
for
decades
for
centuries,
in
fact,
in
India
we
have
been
collecting
waste
right
and
that
process
of
recycling
it's
only
there
there
in
global
level.
C
That
process
recently
started
so
major
challenge.
What
we
are
facing
today
is
that
we
are
not
able
to
track
so,
whatever
recycling
we
are
doing,
even
though
we
are
producing
less
carbons
and
we
are
saving
it,
we
are
not
able
to
produce
a
show,
a
showcase
and
over
there
it
becomes
very,
very
important
that
how
do
we
prove
that?
What
has
been
recycled
over
how
much
carbon
saving
we
have
done?
C
A
Yes,
some
excellent
views,
and
especially
you
know.
You
talked
about
traceability
and
compliance.
So
if
I
talk
about,
you
know
standardization,
because
you
know
if
I
look
at
you
know
ESG
scores,
there
are
so
many.
You
know
different
standards
of
how
you
report
data
and
what
you
report
that
data
into
how
do
you
calculate
your
ESG
score?
That
has
also
been
you
know,
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
people
have
been
talking
about
that
you
know
there
is
no
standardization
across
right.
A
Different
entities
or
different
organizations
are
reporting
using
different
schema
or
different.
You
know
method
of
calculation,
so
my
question
to
you,
prasanna
is:
how
do
you
believe
that
you
know
we
should
be?
You
know
working
towards
it
that
you
know
with
so
many
different
standards.
You
know
accepted
across
you
know
different
geographies
or
you
know,
places
you're
on
mute,
Personnel,
yeah,
I,
think
yeah.
D
I'm,
audible,
yes,
yeah,
I,
think
very,
very
good
question
and
nothing
worked
without
right
standards.
It
all
research
and
isolation
towards
much
more
Innovations.
Imagine
we
have
a
very
good
standard
around
the
data
transformation
on
the
internet.
Likewise,
it
has
not
remained
a
particular
organization,
relevant
agenda
where
governments
are
involved,
public
bodies
are
involved
and
the
whole
aspiration
today
may
not
be
that
intense,
but
why?
D
The
time
we
reach
2025
or
2013
the
need
of
a
meeting
sdg
guidelines
as
well
as
the
ESG,
the
pointers
is
going
to
be
very,
very
critical
and
important.
Today
there
are
some
business
model
where
countries
and
events
and
various
government
associations,
even
G20,
it
was
being
discussed,
are,
are
driving
it
and
there
are
a
lot
of
tech
companies
and
startups
are
coming
with
some
kind
of
innovation
which
is
being
adopted
by
bodies
of
Industries
example.
D
In
Maharashtra
we
had
this
Water
Resource
Group,
who
has
come
up
with
some
guideline
for
all
the
hotel
industry
to
use
recycled
water.
Now,
although
this
deadline
is
there,
how
do
you
really
go
and
measure
and
calibrate
whether
the
particular
hotel
is
utilizing
the
Recycled
water
in
the
major
capacity
at
a
10
o'clock
today?
So
how
do
we
bring
on
that
stuff?
Where
technology
he
can
complain
to
role?
D
Where
spoke
about
how
to
have
a
accuracy
of
our
data,
capturing
and
actual
accuracy
reporting
out
there
to
the
government
so
that
the
government,
whenever
want
to
audit
and
see
against
these
particular
ISD
guidelines,
whether
the
teams
are
really
going
ahead,
the
adequately
or
not,
I
think
those
kind
of
stuff
where
we
can
really
practice
it
or
not.
But
as
far
as
the
standards
and
the
procedure
concerned,
it
is
I
think
it
is
a
long
way
there
has
to
be.
D
This
should
become
a
Right
agenda
ahead
of
adoption
of
or
many
other
areas,
so
I
think
in
a
nutshell,
we
have
to
reach
to
that
Milestone
to
have
a
right
set
of
processes
and
standards,
but
law
of
huge
efforts
are
being
taken
by
governments,
relevant
corporates
and
startups.
Or
tech
companies
also
participating
what
we
have
seen
two
years
before
and
today
many
corporates
are
now
coming
and
imparting
lot
of
a
contribution
to
the
AIG
implementation.
D
So
it's
I
think
we
need
to
be
part
of
this
and
create
the
right
state
of
standards
and
the
processes
so
that
it
becomes
win-win
situation
rather
than
ultimate
guideline
or
a
corporation
to
to
have
this
whole
particular
practice.
The
way
we
have
a
various
departments
so
now,
as
of
now,
this
responsibility
is
being
taken
care
either
by
some
of
the
CSR
groups
within
a
corporates
or
marketing
guys
to
bring
on
but
I,
think
ASG
becomes
agenda
for
every
corporate
senior
election.
Every
government
out
there
state
or
a
central.
D
We
need
to
have
a
standardization
now
within
India.
There
are
some
standards.
There
are
some
bodies
where
are
coming
up
with
some
kind
of
Standards,
but
the
way
we
have
a
global
standard
is
we
have
to
reach
a
that
Junction.
What
I
mean
it's
a
continuous
Journey.
We
need
to
at
least
put
more
investment,
more
Innovation,
more
research
around
these
areas
to
bring
what
is
that
needed
for
our
next
steps
here.
A
Yes
yeah,
so
we
lost
your
video
Personnel
for
some
time,
but,
yes,
you
were
Audible,
and
so
essentially
what
your.
So,
if
I
gather
your
thoughts,
so
you
are
saying
that
you
know
you
know
that
there
has
to
be
a
structure
put
in
place
with
different.
You
know
with
the
government
bodies,
I
suppose
you
know
there
could
also
be.
There
would
also
be
some
role
of
you
know
how
there
has
been
some
role
of.
A
You
know
how
people
have
been
you
know,
or
investors
have
been
talking
about,
or
you
know
investing
into
you
know
only
when
you
know
in
the
business
is
sustainable
and
not
just
sustainable
from
the
you
know,
sustainable
and
you
know
friendly
for
ecosystem
as
well
right
so
yeah.
So
with
that
in
mind,
you
know
Deepak.
My
question
to
you
would
be
that.
Do
you
believe
it?
It
has
to
be
a
global
effort
or
you
know
like
when
it
comes
to
carbon.
A
You
know
like
emissions
tracking
or
you
know,
but
like
something
at
the
you
know,
level
of
United
Nations
or
something
like
that
or
it
has
to
be.
You
know
Regional
efforts,
you
know
to
bring
up,
you
know
those
standards
and
you
know
do
that
tracking
and
and
what
would
be
the
role
of
you
know,
individuals
in
there
or
investors
into
it.
B
B
This
is
an
impact
of
climate
change.
Probably
one
of
the
reasons
right
and
every
other
city
is
around
20
22
degrees.
Mumbai.
Today,
in
the
last
week,
it's
soaring
around
34
to
37
degrees,
which
is
not
quite
obvious,
which
is,
which
is
a
deviation
actually,
and
this
is
a
global
problem
and
it
has
to
be
addressed
at
a
global
level
where
prasanna
also
spoke
about
the
standardization
where
it
will
eventually
evolve,
but
at
a
regional
level
you
do
not
have
to
wait
for
things
to
happen
at
a
global
level.
B
Today
we
are
talking
about
G20
presidency.
We
are
talking
about
that
cryptocurrency
and
climate
as
one
of
the
hard
topics
where
the
G20
plus
people
are
discussing
to
close
this
come
to
a
conclusion
by
end
of
this
2023
and
there
as
an
country.
If
you
want
to
take
the
position
or
a
leader
as
a
presidency,
you
need
to
have
a
foolproof
system
to
eradicate
or
reduce
the
emission
carbon
emission
of
the
waste
management
product
see
in
the
western
world,
probably
I,
think
Sweden
or
Norway,
where
they
have
specific
areas.
B
Where
you
can
put
your
e-wasts,
where
you
can
dump
your
image,
it
will
go
directly
to
the
E-Waste
collector.
So
if
you
are
keeping
any
loopholes
in
the
system,
then
you
will
always
allow
things
to
crop
up,
and
then
it
will
create
a
new
problem
rather
like
if
we
have,
if
I
have
to
dispose
my
mobile
or
a
laptop
or
something
I
need
to
have
a
full
proof
mechanism
that
my
laptop
or
a
mobile
has
been
sent
to
a
registered
E-Waste
company.
B
Either
it
is
refurbished
or
it
is,
it
is
made
carbon
neutral
for
Industries
also.
It
has
to
be
tracked
at
such
a
level
where
the
auditor,
the
regulator,
the
auditor
and
the
owners
of
the
carbon
emitter.
They
need
to
know
what
is
happening
at
that
level
and
till
we
bring
a
foolproof
system
or
we
Innovative
foolproof
system
and
bring
our
own
standards
for
each
industry,
because
each
industry
has
its
own
emission
limits
and
it
has
gots
its
own
processes
as
well.
A
B
Alone
will
not
help
Vikram
see
there
has
to
be
huge
penalties,
so
otherwise
people
will
not
adhere
to
the
the
compliances
right
see.
Today
we
have
we
break
rules
on
the
road,
most
of
us
do
it
by
knowing
or
unknowingly,
but
there
is
no
UAV
penalty.
The
moment
you
put
penalty,
everything
will
get
normalized.
C
Yes,
sir,
so
let
me
add
one
another
example:
as
Deepak
is
talking
about
penalty
in
India.
Currently
every
year
battery
manufacturers
or
the
companies
who
are
dealing
battery,
they
are
paying
a
penalty
of
more
than
6
million
dollar
every
year
as
on
today,
that
is
just
a
penalty
cost,
because
they're
not
compliant
or
some
kind
of
issues
are
there,
and
that
is
happening
why
that
is
happening
it's
only
because
they
are
not
able
to
track
the
whole
thing.
C
So
there's
a
big
gap
in
terms
of
where
the
battery
has
come
and
how
it
has
been
recycled
and
worker
process
has
been
followed
so
till
the
time
we
don't
have
such
kind
of
solutions
and
in
fact
the
process
is
already
started.
In
fact,
a
vev,
as
a
company
also
are
involved
in
that
we're
working
on
that
solution,
but
it
requires
a
big
push
from
the
government,
also,
not
only
you
have
to
be
compliant
and
putting
a
penalty
in
place,
supporting
companies
in
creating
or
developing
solutions
to
fulfill.
B
Also,
just
adding
one
more
Point
today
where
people
are
becoming
directors
or
independent
directors
or
startups,
and
on
company
boards
there
is
also
a
certification
on
ESG.
So
while
people
are
identifying,
the
boards
are
independent
directors,
they
should
have
somebody
who's
qualified,
independent
director
or
director
with
an
ESG
certification
so
that
they
can
guide
them
on
this
ESG
standards
and
how
to
how
to
follow
these
compliances
and
processes.
A
Yep
so
some
excellent
thoughts,
so
I
think
you
know
we
can
spend
you
know
a
good
amount
of
time
on
this.
You
know
topic
and
you
know
there
would
be
you
know
so
many
inputs
that
I
think
we
all
have
so
but
I'll.
You
know
try
to
move
on
to
the
next
topic
that
we
have
is
tokenization
and
when
I
say
tokenization,
you
know
all
the
you
know
lights.
You
know
all
the
bulbs,
you
know
start
you
know
blowing
when
because
of
the
nfts
right,
so
most
people
are
relating.
A
You
know,
tokenization
with
nfts,
because
that's
how
you
know
it
has
been
commercialized
right
so
that
that
one
part
is
there
and
you
know
many
of
them
are
buying
nfts
for
the
sake
of
buying
it
and
also
but
yes,
so
it
does
give
us.
You
know
good
repo
blockchain,
you
know
at
least
it
criminalizes
people
with
blockchain,
and
but
it
does
set
some.
You
know
expectations
as
well
and
when
something
goes
wrong
with
crypto,
you
know,
blockchain
also
takes
the.
You
know,
blame
as
well
right,
so
I
want
with
that.
A
B
Yeah
yeah,
so,
first
of
all,
the
UPI
is
the
payment
method,
and
cbdc
is
a
currency
right.
So
so
there
is
a
difference
so
also
in
UPI.
You
have
to
have
settlement
Banks.
You
have
to
go
through
your
Central
Bank.
You
have
to
settle,
whereas
in
cbdc
the
settlement
is
real
time
and
without
the
intermediary
right.
B
So
so
cbdc
is
kind
of
a
tokenization
of
the
money
which
is
cryptographically
secured
and
which
can
be
transferred
from
wallet
to
wallet
without
an
intermediary
like
cash
and
therefore-
and
so
also
cbdc-
has
these
other
advantages,
for
example
the
cbdc
being
a
token.
A
smart
contract
can
actually
be
used
to
program
it.
B
It
can
be
used
for
welfare
by
actually
making
sure
that
the
cbdc
pushed
to
the
wallets
to
welfare
would
be
only
usable
for
food
and
clothing,
and
things
like
that
and
not
for
anything
liquid.
For
example,
you
can
actually
also
use
monetary
policy
for
cptc,
for
example,
you
can
decide
to
give
a
interest
on
cbtc
stored
in
wallets.
If
you
want
to
control
some,
you
know
some
put
some
monetary
levers.
B
You
can
also
expire
the
money
like
now,
if
you,
if,
if,
if
that
situation
arises
in
terms
of
the
sync
also
cbdc,
hopefully
will
be
actually
provide
anonymity
to
the
extent
that
the
laws
in
India
or
or
the
country
of
jurisdiction
allows
Anonymous
transactions
of
cash,
for
example,
but
Beyond
a
certain
limit
caches
also
cannot
be
legally
anonymized
anonymously.
Transferred
same
thing
would
happen
to
cbdc,
but
the
anonymity
would
be
built
in
through
technology
and
through
legal
backings,
so
UPI
cannot
be
anonymous.
B
For
example,
UPI
is
leaving
too
many
digital
Trails
UPI
cannot
be
programmed
or
Square
purposed,
so
UPI
is
a
is
basically
a
payment
method,
but
you
are
paying
by
your
bank
money,
whereas
cbdc
is
a
central
bank
money
that
is
provided
to
you
by
bias
and
above
via
a
bank,
but
it
is,
it
is
redeemable
by
the
fit
of
the
central
bank.
So
it's
a
it's
a
very
different
system.
A
B
Well,
it's
of
course
required
the
wallets
have
to
have
some
built-in
features
that
that,
because
cbdc
another
another
aspect
that
cbdc
has
to
be
has
to
be
has
to
have
is
that
I
should
be
able
to
pay
Offline.
That
is,
if
I
in
India,
for
example,
there
are
a
lot
of
Internet
denied
environment.
Therefore,
there
are
requirement
for
offline
payments.
B
A
Okay,
so
my
question
to
naresh
then
inclusivity
is
you
know
by
is
quite
important
when
it
comes
to
Central
Bank,
digital
currency.
Right,
especially,
you
know,
when
about
what
more
than
100
countries
are
right
now
you
know
working
on
the
on
such
projects
right,
including
India.
So
what
are
your
lots
of
inclusivity
and
how
cbdc
promotes
it.
C
C
They
don't
have
to
really
go
to
the
bank
and
they
don't
have
to
really
go
through
a
complicated
process
of
opening
the
account
and
all
that
it's
just
a
simple
wallet
like
it's,
your
cash
wallet
so
which
is
in
your
pocket.
It's
it's
going
to
work
exactly
like
that.
It
is
a
simple
as
that,
once
you
have
money
in
your
in
your
wallet,
you
keep
on
using
it,
you
keep
on
getting,
you
can
keep
on
transferring
it
and
that
is
going
to
help
inclusivity.
B
A
C
A
Yeah
so
infrastructure
that
means
infrastructure,
and
you
know
how
easy
it
is,
for
you
know
people
to
acquire
that
infrastructure
is
important.
So
my
question
over
to
prasanna
is
you
know,
but
do
you
believe
you
know
there
are
certain
steps
that
needs
to
be
taken?
You
know
in
that
regard
to
make
you
know
that
Central
Bank
digital
currencies
available
and
should
there
be
a
mechanism
to
actually
interoperate
right,
so
interoperability
is
another.
You
know
big
theme
right,
so
I'll
just
introduce
it.
A
A
D
Yeah
so
I
think
what
I
was
saying,
I
think
it's
a
very
good
question
you
have
spoke
about,
but
I
think
there
are
lots
of
things
are
going
to
happen
as
far
as
a
journey
of
a
CBD
system.
I
think
it
is
just
the
beginning
of
something
big
which
is
good
for
all
of
us
right.
Cbdc
is
a
currency
and
it's
a
digital
currency.
It
speaks
a
lot
about
the
difference
between
UPA
and
cbtc
and
Sandeep
sir,
as
mentioned,
which
very
well
as
far
as
the
infrastructure
is
the
concerned.
D
Like
a
country,
we
are
very
strong
atom,
molecular
policies,
so
the
challenges
which
faced
by
any
some
countries
on
a
monetary
policy
we
will
not
suffer
but
then
next
level,
whether
it
is
a
decentralization
or
centralization.
So,
moreover,
the
decision
is
already
taken
or
we
could
see
that
it
will
be
a
decentralized
mechanism
backed
by
some
Enterprise
blockchain.
That's
what
we
look
at
it
and
the
way
how
other
countries
like
China
or
Cambodia
have
taken
a
leap
with
some
of
those
well-known
blockchain
platforms.
D
So
similarly,
we
will
also
build
on
the
story
for
us,
but
Although.
Our
aspirations
will
be
different.
Our
population,
the
adoption
curve
which
we
are
looking
at
not
for
only
payment,
because
up
under
relevant
railroads,
are
only
for
payment
but
cbdc.
Today
it
will
go
behind
RBI,
where
we
will
see
how
insurance
and
where
culture
will
interact.
D
So
I
think
the
scalability
is
going
to
be
very,
very
important
aspect
around
at
the
end
of
the
day,
because
cbdc
is
not
only
for
user
experience
on
the
wallet
side
which
which
is
being
already
solved
with
the
help
of
a
UPI
kind
of
vehicle
system
on
Smart
Force.
But
when
you
talk
about
a
offline
on
feature
phones
or
some
momentum,
where
we
I
think
spoke
about
financial
inclusion,
it's
a
Global,
Financial
inclusion
agenda,
so
how
my
cbdc
should
talk
with
some
other
cbdc
of
other
country.
D
So
can
we
not
have
some
interoperable
little
standards,
which
is
going
to
be
very,
very
important
where
bis
comes
into
picture
banking,
interesting
settlement
or
notifications?
Are
guidelines
by
IMF
keeps
on
talking?
If
you
are
creating
cbtc
at
a
country,
level,
always
talk
to
some
other
country
on
a
on
a
monetary
standards
as
well
as
the
technological
standards.
D
So
I
think
there
are
a
lot
of
ways
where
we
could
see
some
experiments
like
Embrace
or
a
project
helvetica
where
countries
like
Sweden,
Switzerland
or
singapurs
are
taking
part
and
doing
that
kind
of
a
research
around
this.
But
typically
today,
the
if
you,
even
if
you
talk
about
adoption
of
a
cbdc,
is
in
a
prominent
countries.
D
Some
10
12
countries
are
live,
so
it
is
not
more
than
two
to
three
percent
or
even
you
talk
about
the
Cambodia
adoption
is,
as
a
download
has
done
it
for
50
of
population,
but
eight
to
do
for
an
actual
adoption.
So
it's
appeal
for
RBA
also
when
they
are
talking
about
foreign
concept
node,
it
should
cover
more
of
a
adoption
curve.
D
Also,
apart
from
the
learnings,
which
you
will
see
in
a
retail
cptc
or
wholesale
cbtc
over
period
of
two
to
three
months
where
we
will
see
the
scalability
or
a
security
part
of
a
learning
on
a
blockchain
network.
But
we
need
to
see
how,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
all
reconciliation
of
all
transactions
done
on
today
should
be
nullified
at
a
zero.
That
is
the
ultimate
aim
of
a
cptc.
D
It's
not
only
to
bring
a
financial
inclusion
or
it's
not
only
to
bring
some
kind
of
a
one
wallet
for
a
better
customer
experience,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
how
do
we
nullify
all
those
operations
which
we
are
doing
since
so
many
years
on?
Current
payment
ecosystems
like
it
takes
t
plus
one
or
something
plus
two
and
a
lot
of
manual
efforts
to
do
that?
A
frequency
settlement
which
will
be
do
away
with
the
with
the
cbdc?
So
it's
a
it's
a
larger
game.
D
I
think
we
keep
announcing
pocs
Pilots,
it's
a
good
for
that
larger
game,
but
ultimate
leads
very,
very
important.
How
do
you
have
a
right
infrastructure
and
interoperable
infrastructure
which
can
work
from
one
country
to
another
country
and,
moreover,
it
should
onward
not
only
current
payment
railroads,
but
eventually
the
way
we
have
seen
insurance
was
not
there
right.
Digital
insurance
or
a
wealth
was
not
in
90s
or
2000.
So,
all
of
a
sudden,
with
the
digital
adoption
there
are,
a
lot
of
instruments
are
coming
in
our
life.
D
Now
UPI
account
aggregator
and
many
more
ecosystems
are
coming,
but
cbdc
coming
in
it
will
open
up
multiple
business
models
right,
and
so
how
do
you
have
a
appetite
for
those
many
transactions
when
today,
UPI
can
handle
some
thousands
of
TPS
or
5
times
20
000
of
TPS?
This
will
go
over
70,
70,
000
PPS
in
current
capacity.
Now,
what
we
are
building
today
is
as
a
cptc.
It
should
remain
at
least
for
the
next
five
to
ten
years.
D
C
D
Indian
congestion
in
the
Indian
context
and
when
it
comes
to
cross
border,
how
do
you
take
care
of
my
cptc
to
another?
Cbtcs
are
all
together
but
good
to
see
that
RBI
is
a
very,
very
clean
on
top
of
it,
and
government
of
India
is
also
supporting
I
can
say
as
a
as
a
humor
that
we
have
seen
digital
or
rather
demonetized
in
2016.
Can
you
not
see
some
digital
demonetization
and
say
from
Tomorrow
onwards,
all
paper
currency
is
gone
and
we
are
on
the
verge
of
only
dealers.
A
A
B
See
I
will
first
finish
couple
of
points
on
the
cbdc
part,
I
think
the
esteem
panel
is
already
spoken
about
infrastructure.
Like
prasanna
said
cbdc,
it's
a
it's
a
very
early
stage:
we've
still
not
gone
production,
it
is
still
on
pilot
and
there
are
other
countries
where
they
have
already
moved
to
production.
B
There
is
a
lot
of
learning
which
we
are
going
to
carry
through
these
10
level
countries,
and
there
is
a
lot
of
opportunities
where
the
fiat
currency,
who
is
not
able
to
solve
the
fear
the
cbdc
is
going
to
solve,
because
the
traceability
of
the
currency
itself
is
going
to
solve
a
lot
of
problems,
and
there
is
a
lot
of
NPA
issues
with
the
microfinancing
and
Banks
and
lending
ecosystem
which
can
be
traced
and
which
can
be
transparent.
It
can
reduce
NPS
in
case
of
farmers.
Then
the
microfinancing
is
happening.
B
They
take
the
loan
for
farming,
but
they
spend
it
for
Vedic.
So
there
are
a
lot
of
things
which
can
be
controlled
and
we
can
build
the
ecosystem
there
info
structure,
as,
of
course
4G
is
still
not
4G
across
India.
Now
we
are
talking
about
5G
by
the
time
5G
matches.
Probably
all
of
India
gets
4G
properly
and
there
are
freebies
where
governments
are
issuing.
Maybe
some
governments
will
come
and
issue
smartphones
to
their
collect
electoral
agenda.
Manifesto.
B
Cptc
is
born
to
change
the
game
for
for
the
exchange
itself,
for
the
purpose
where
fiat
currency
is
being
used,
and
it
is
going
to
solve
a
lot
of
infrastructure
issues
as
well,
because
since
it
is
digital-
and
it
is
it's,
a
lot
of
Education
needs
to
happen
at
the
deep
roots
of
the
corners
of
the
country.
But
the.
B
With
post
covered
has
happened
faster
than
any
other
country,
I,
don't
see
any
challenge
in
India
for
adoption
of
digital
currency.
We
have
been
living
with
multiple
currencies
in
the
past
history,
where
we
had
more
currencies
than
any
other
country
itself,
so
I
don't
see
as
any
roadblock.
It
is
going
to
be
a
great
opportunity
for
India,
where
India
needs
to
now
step
up.
The
whole
process
is
to
cbdc
diplomacy.
Like
we
had
a
vaccine
diplomacy.
B
A
You
know
we
wanted
to
discuss
and
you
know
there
are
so
many
you
know
burning
questions
right
and
you
know
thank
you
all
for
you
know
being
here,
and
you
know
giving
such
wonderful
answers
and
you
know
enlightening
us
with
your
thoughts
and
it
was
definitely
an
intriguing
discussion.
I
I
hope
everyone
enjoyed
in
that
session.
So
we
were
live
at.
You
know
three
locations
night
of
Bangalore
and
thiruvanthapuram
in
addition
to
our
virtual
audience,
so
I,
thank
you
all
for
being
here
and
you
know
be
participating
in
this.