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Description
A virtual Hyperledger meetup on August 9, 2023 featuring David Palmer, Blockchian Lead at Vodafone Business, and hosted by Tanveer Ali. In this event they are discussing how global brands leverage Web3 & Metaverse to drive business transformation.
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Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
B
Thanks
so
much
David
appreciate
it
hello,
everyone,
my
name
is
tan.
Vir
I
would
like
to
extend
a
warm
welcome
to
all
of
you
for
joining
us
for
the
hyperledger
Meetup
that
we're
doing
virtually.
We
do
several
meetups
that
are
in
person,
but
we
do
a
lot
a
lot
more
meetups
that
are
virtual
and
allows
us
to
get
speakers
who
are
in
other
parts
of
the
world.
Like
David
Palmer,
really
appreciate
David
joining
us.
He
heads
the
the
blockchain
group
at
at
Vodafone.
B
C
B
B
C
So
so
yeah
I
mean
I've
I've
been
in
blockchain
web
3
for
for
for
many
years,
so
I
started
looking
at
Bitcoin
when
it
was
not
fashionable
fashionable
when
we
were
all
crazy
trying
to
mine
it
on
our
hard
drive
and
and
really
got
got
excited
with
ethereum.
So
so
you
started,
you
know
trying
to
to
program
smart
contracts.
C
But
it's
really
looking
at
what
What
attracted
me
to
it
is
the
potential
of
the
the
technology
to
extend
the
the
automation
boundary
right,
yeah,
just
so
the
simplest
level
yeah
the
ability
to
provide
trust
and
transparency,
which
you
know
is
the
use
case-
that's
supporting
cryptocurrencies
but
can
be
used
for
so
many
other
corporate
use
cases.
I
was
really
attractive
because
it
takes
it
to
the
other
level.
C
You
know
we
can
have
a
lot
of
automation
internally,
because
we
trust
the
organization,
but
organizations
don't
even
trust
themselves
internally,
but
there's
enough
in
the
there's
enough
systems
and
processes
to
be
able
to
to
have
that.
But
externally.
This
is
where
you
have
credit
checks.
You
have
supplier
checks,
you
have
you
know
so
many
checks
and
the
ability
to
have
trust
and
automation.
C
You
know
with
that
external
boundary
with
when
you're
dealing
with
external
companies,
it's
something
that
was
financed,
which
was
you
know,
I
found
fascinating,
so
so
so
so
really
I
was
really
attracted
by
what
could
blockchain
and
web3
do
for
telcos?
You
know
what
could
they
do
for
roaming
agreements?
What
could
it
do
for
iot?
What
could
it
do
for
Contracting?
C
Your
smartphones
are
also
devices
but
but
where
those
devices
can
trust
each
other
across
organizations
and
ecosystem
boundaries,
where
they
can
digitally
sign
using
encryption
where
they
can
transact
using
wallets
and
tokens.
You
know
it
is
essentially
what
the
digital
asset
broker
platforms
about,
and
then
we've
used
web3
to
provide
that
new
age
of
automation,
so
so
yeah,
that's
what
I've
been
doing
for
the
past
years
and
also
very
big
taking
that
into
metaverse,
taking
that
into
broader
web
3.
B
I
can't
wait
to
get
to
that.
You
know
to
set
the
stage
right
and
actually
before
I
do
that
for
those
who
are
not
familiar
with
Buddha
phone,
they
have
a
it's
among
the
largest
Telecom
providers
or
in
Wireless
providers
in
the
world.
You
know,
I
looked
them
up,
I
read
a
little
more
about
them
and
I
think
they
directly
operate
in
about
22
countries
and
then
through
Partners
In,
Another
48
different
countries.
B
C
B
So
I
am
an
alumni
and
I
have
a
lot
of
respect
for
the
company,
the
brand,
the
network,
the
operational
discipline
and
also
when
I'm
in
India
I
always
use
a
Vodafone
mobile
phone.
You
know
when
I
land
there
so
I
I
am
a
customer
whenever
I'm
in
your
markets,
so
I
think
it's
it's
a
phenomenal
story
of
what
you
know.
Vodafone
has
accomplished,
and
now
it's
you
know
going
Beyond
as
we
get
into
connected
devices
and-
and
you
know,
connected
transportation
and
autonomous
transportation
and
Mobility
I.
B
C
So
so
so
so
so
difficult
question,
it's
always
hard
to
go
to
the
basics.
So
so
so
I
I
would
say.
Blockchain
and
web3
is
about
trust.
It's
about
digital
trust,
about
digital
asset
ownership,
portability
and
transactions,
and
I
would
say
that
the
medevas
is
yeah.
The
the
murder
of
us
I'm
not
I'm,
going
to
take
a
bit
more
time
on
right,
because
I
believe
that
if
we
take
the
metabaster,
this
Basics
we'd
say
it's
immersiveness.
C
It's
about
a
new
immersive
virtual
reality,
which
you
know
allows
us
to
do
things
that
we
can
do
in
the
real
world
in
the
virtual
world.
But
actually
it's
a
lot
more
because,
as
I'll
explain
later,
I
believe
that
the
murder
of
us
will
replace
the
web
browser
I
believe
the
medevas
will
be
the
place
where
people
interact
with
content
and
where
businesses
interact
with
the
digital
world
and
as
as
a
new
operating
system.
C
You
know
it
should
be
able
to
draw
on
a
number
of
Technologies
AI
web3
Erp
web
2.
You
know
to
to
provide
the
right
components
for
the
right
solution,
so
so
I
I
would
say
you
know
to
to
you
know
a
business
executive
that
the
medevas
is
not
just
immersiveness.
It's
actually
a
new
digital
operating
system
now,
which
will
allow
users,
businesses
and
consumers
to
incorporate.
B
Scooper,
thank
you
for
that
now.
Last
year
you
know
there
was
so
much
of
talk
and
a
lot
of
hype
around.
You
know
metaverse
and
web3.
You
know
Facebook
changed
it.
You
know
stock
sticker
symbol
in
June,
I
believe
in
October
they
rebranded
the
whole
company
as
as
metaverse
this
year.
You
know
some
of
that
buzz
may
have
you
know
that
hype
may
have
died,
but
I
think
we've
actually
seen
companies.
You
know
you
know
making
progress
and
you
know
bring
that
utility
or
adding
you
know
creating
that
value.
C
So
so
so
so
you're
absolutely
right.
Last
year
or
2021,
you
know
the
mother
of
us
was
at
the
top
of
the
hype
cycle
and
we
had
all
of
The
Usual
Suspects
coming
out
and
saying:
okay,
it's
going
to
be
a
15
trillion
opportunity.
It's
going
to
be
a
5
trillion
opportunity
Unity
by
2030.,
so
we
had
a
lot
of
big
forecast
numbers
this
year.
C
Of
course,
the
the
headline
has
been
chat:
GPT
open,
AI,
generative
AI,
a
hundred
million
followers
and
six
or
100
million
users
in
six
weeks
and
and
it's
taken
over.
But
actually
you
know
as
I
said
I.
Just
repeat
my
point:
you
know
the
metaverse
and
AI
are
linked.
The
metaverse
and
web
3
I
think
the
weather,
Versa
and
web
two
are
linked
right.
As
you
accurately
said,
you
know,
Facebook
changed
his
name
to
murder.
C
C
C
What's
really
interesting
is
is
at
the
moment
this
4.5
billion
digital
wallets
and
by
2030
we're
expecting
5.6
billion
digital
wallets.
So
if
you
look
at
the
things
that
that
you
know
that
have,
and
social
media
over
4
billion
may
be
approaching,
5
billion
pretty
soon.
So
if
you
look
at
the
things
that
have
penetration
right
in
here
in
the
world,
it's
the
mobile
phone
yeah
people
increasing
mobile
phones,
increasing
social
media,
medium
wallets.
Those
are
the
things
that
have
got
penetration.
C
If
you
look
up,
web3
amount
of
digital
wallets
is
just
300
million,
just
over
300
million
right.
So
it's
nowhere
near
the
penetration
of
wallets.
Now
we're
near
the
penetration
of
social
media,
nowhere
near
the
penetration
a
smart
one.
So
that
indicates
to
me
that
if
the
metaverse
is
going
to
get
adoption,
if
web3
is
going
to
get
the
adoption,
it's
not
going
to
be
with
each
other
is
actually
going
to
be.
C
C
I
keep
getting
these
Snippets
of
you
know:
AI
writing
code
and
AI,
generating
film
content,
Etc
and
actually
I
I
believe
that
that
for
AI
to
have
a
presence
on
this
app
for
us
to
be
able
to
interact
with
it
for
the
for
AI
to
be
at
the
end
of
a
web.
Browser
with
with
Dynamic
prompts
not
just
voice
or
or
text
in
an
interactive
way
that
AI
is
going
to
have
to
take
on
a
personal
environment
which
will
be
provided
by
the
metabest.
C
C
Is
such
an
important
thing
so
in
terms
of
use
cases,
I,
I,
I
I,
think
some
of
the
use
cases
in
film
I
think
some
of
the
use
cases
in
Virtual
showrooms
I
think
some
of
the
industrial
metaverse
use
cases
in
terms
of
digital
twins,
I
think
some
of
the
retail
use
cases
which
are
linked
to
showrooms
Etc
are
really
exciting,
but
I
believe
they're
only
the
beginning,
because
I
believe
that
the
use
cases
that
will
come
where
we
start
to
mesh
these
these
Technologies.
So
you
mess
the
metaverse
with
tokens.
C
C
We
were
on
the
back
of
being
at
home
for
two
years
right,
you're
on
the
back
of
a
pandemic
and,
of
course,
being
at
home
for
two
years.
It's
like
okay.
What
can
I
do
virtually,
which
I
can't,
which
I
cannot
do
physically
I,
can't
go
out?
I
can't
go
to
a
party,
so
let's
have
a
virtual
club:
let's
have
virtual
virtual
socializing
and
what
we've
seen
now
post
pandemic.
You
know
we
we
were
told
that
nobody
would
travel
again
or
not
many
people
would
travel.
C
Not
many
people
would
go
to
conferences,
selling
out
right.
People
are
now
enjoying
physically
socializing
right.
So
so
so
this
idea
of
a
of
a
all-encompassing
medevas
that
would
replace
the
real
world
and-
and
it
would
be
this
big
persistent
thing
like
the
Matthew
ball
definition
I
think-
is
dead
right.
I
honestly,
believe,
that's
not
going
to
happen
right
now.
Right,
I,
think
where
we
are
with
the
metaverse
right
now
is
that
we
will
have
several
mini
verses
right.
You'll
have
the
Apple
metaverse
you'll
have
the
meta
metaverse.
C
You
have
other
meta
verses
that
will
spring
up
and
then
in
order
to
get
Dynamic,
Journeys
and
portability
of
identity
and
ownership
and
all
the
rest
of
it
across
it.
You'll
start
to
see
some
interoperability
and
then
eventually
down
the
road.
You
may
see
some
convergence
and
and
I
think
that's
yeah,
that's
important
in
terms
of
realizing.
You
know
the
development,
but
in
terms
of
use
cases
I
don't
think
you
know
the
metaverse
will
replace
the
physical
world.
It
was
never
going
to
do
that.
I.
C
Don't
think
that
we
want
to
do
everything
we
do
in
the
physical
world
in
the
virtual
world.
It's
going
to
be
where
it
adds
value
where
it
add
value
from
our
entertainment
point
of
view
and
where
it
adds
value
from
a
business
point
of
view,
and
and
in
my
book
I
map
out
a
feature
set
right.
So
so,
there's
two
features
in
particular
that
the
the
the
that
I
used
to
so
I
thought
this
business
opportunity.
C
Quadrant
and
there's
two
features
that
I
map
on
on
that
quadrant
one
is
the
added
value
of
immersiveness
and
the
other
one
is
the
the
added
value
or
the
benefit
of
removing
geography.
Because
two
of
the
key
features
of
the
metabus
is
it
removes
geography
and
it
can
bring
a
level
of
immersiveness
that
you
would
otherwise
get
so
so
when
you
look
at
those
where
you
have,
you
know
high
high
benefit
from
immersiveness
and
you
have
high
benefit
from
removing
geography.
Those
are
The,
Sweet,
Spot
use
cases.
C
C
It's
removed
and
the
level
of
immersiveness
is
high
because
it's
a
cost
that
involves
physical,
touching
that
you
couldn't
do
before.
So
you
could
do
online
courses,
but
you
couldn't
interact
with
your
class.
You
know
in
a
massive
way
and
you
couldn't
do
medical
procedures.
You
couldn't
do
engineering
stuff
in
the
same
way
as
you
could
now,
but
but
the
metabus
now
makes
that
possible.
Then
I
think
you're
in
a
position
where
you
know
the
mediverse,
universities
or
medivers
training
and
education
becomes
really
exciting
and
I.
C
Think
that's
one
of
them
that
you
know
that
really
excites
me,
because
it
can
bring
about
real
change.
It
can
actually
increase
the
improve
the
productivity
of
the
world
right
by
making
people
more
productive
and
providing
extending
the
the
amount
of
Education
that's
available,
all
the
opportunities
in
education.
But
there
are
others
I'm
talking
a
lot
or
maybe
trying
to
give
you
an
opportunities
to
ask
some
questions,
but.
B
We'll
we'll
we'll
delve
a
little
deeper
into
one
or
two
use
cases
in
a
minute:
I
love,
one
of
the
things
you
share,
I,
follow
you
on
LinkedIn
and
you
put
up
some
great
posts.
One
of
your
articles
you
shared
was
how
Bank
of
America,
which
really
surprising
because
banking
is
fairly.
You
know
they
are
slow
to
adopt
they're
very
risk-averse
they're
highly
regulated,
but
even
a
banking
institution
is
now.
You
know
how
banking,
how
banks
are
also
leveraging.
B
The
matter
was
where
they
do
their
new
higher
orientation
for
Bankers,
and
you
know
you
can
put
on
the
you
know
the
the
Oculus
like
glass
right
and
now
you
can
get
simulation
on
how
to
deal
with
the
irate
customer
or
you
know,
like
a
bank
robbery,
that's
happening,
and
how
do
you
deal
with
that
right?
I
thought
those
are
very
powerful,
real-life
uses,
you
know
using
the
the
you
know
the
metaverse
right,
and
so
when
you
spoke
about
education,
I,
I
think
yeah,
that's
definitely
a
very
exciting
area.
B
C
Yeah,
so
so
the
economy
is
so
so,
as
you
all
know,
yeah
and
I
I've
been
in
this
sort
of
Internet
of
things
that
machine
to
machine
a
long
time.
So
we've
gone
from
machine
to
machine
to
internet
of
things,
and
now
we're
talking
about
the
economy
of
things.
The
Internet
of
Things
is
about
connected
devices
and,
and,
as
some
of
you
may
may
know,
you
know
Vodafone
and
companies
like
at
T
and
other
operators.
C
C
A
lot
of
75
of
the
data
is
in
use,
that's
the
first
thing
and
monetization
or
return
on
on
investment,
isn't
as
high
as
it
could
have
been
or
or
in
mind
with
expectations,
and
why
is
that
is
because,
essentially
the
models
have
been
cycled
models
right,
so
it's
been
okay,
I'll
put
my
devices
on
the
platform
or
connect
them
and
I'll.
Take
the
data
and
I
use
it.
Another
company
who
put
their
devices
on
the
platform
they'll
connect
them.
They'll
use
the
data,
but
there's
been
no
interoperability
right.
C
So
so
you
have
Silo
connected
connected
devices,
site
load,
data,
siled
use
and
the
economy
of
things
was
looking
at
okay
yeah.
Can
we
have
a
yeah,
a
position
where
you
know
a
street
light
can
sell,
send
data
cell
data
to
a
mobile
camera,
or
could
you
have
a
camera
selling
data
to
a
drone
or
or
a
car
selling
data
to
a
car
park,
and
and
could
they
do
that
across
organizations?
Could
we
break
the
silos?
Could
we
make
it
interoperability?
C
Could
we
make
them
trust
each
other,
and
that
is
really
the
economy
of
things
it's
about?
Okay,
you
know
what
what
is
going
to
be
the
biggest
currency
in
the
world
going
forwards.
It's
going
to
be
data
right.
The
med
of
us
will
need
data,
there's
going
to
be
the
explosion
of
demand
for
data
going
into
llms
ail
llms,
because
that
needs
data
right
yeah.
We
we've
got
this
false
impression
that
AI
happened
overnight.
C
They've
been
training,
those
open
AI
models
for
years
and
it'll
only
be
as
good
as
the
data
that
goes
in
there
right.
So,
on
the
one
hand,
you
have
a
load
of
iot
devices
that
are
producing
data.
On
the
other
hand,
you've
got
demand
for
data,
and
you
can't
Bridge
them
right.
The
economy
of
things
is
basically
opening
up
devices
so
that
they're
interoperable
right.
So
what
does
that
mean?
It
means
that
two
devices
that
are
from
different
owners,
different
parts
of
the
ecosystem
can
identify
each
other
and
trust
each
other.
Why?
C
Because
they've
got
an
interoperable
digital
identity,
as
you
do
in
web3,
right
and
and
how
do
you
authenticate
that
you
have
verifiable
credentials
and
you
have
cryptography
and
a
digital
signature,
and
if
you're
going
to
do
all
that
and
my
device
can
communicate
with
your
device
and
I've
got
data
you
want,
then
then
I
want
to
be
able
to
transact
it.
So
part
of
what
we
we
looked
at
was:
okay,
we
can
connect
the
devices
we
can
make
that
we
can
provide
that
interoperable
identity.
C
We
can
have
verifiable
credentials,
but
actually
can
we
put
a
wallet
on
the
device?
Can
we
attach
a
payment
credential,
and
can
we
link
that
to
a
Smart
contract,
so
we
can
automate
payments
for
different
things
and
then
that
is
it
right
and
we
believe
that
those
that
set
of
capabilities
opens
up
a
whole
economy
of
services
and
data.
C
You
know
for
these
billions
of
devices
that
are
out
there
right,
providing
new
monetization
opportunities.
Some
of
the
things
you
think
about
are
fleets
right.
If
you
look
at
big
fleets,
you
know
that
are
on
the
road.
If
they've
got
a
dash
cam
could
that
data
at
a
specific
point
in
time
be
sold
to
an
insurance
company?
C
If
you
look
at
yeah,
you
know
or
the
supply
chain
problems,
we've
had
how
many
of
you
have
seen.
Amazon
trucks
come
to
your
house
so
to
my
house.
The
parcels
are
never
for
me,
but
I
have
three
or
four
deliveries
in
a
day
and
from
the
same
Amazon
right
and
they'll
go
back
empty
you'll,
see
them
come
by
the
startup
for
they'll
go
back
empty.
C
You
know
what
about
if
you
could
sell
data
on
the
capacity
of
those
vans
or
those
trucks
and
sell
the
spare
capacity
right,
so
they
they
come
full
and
they
go
back
full.
You
know,
and
you
have
other
sort
of
opportunities
where
you
know.
Data
in
near
real
time
could
make
a
difference
right
and
that
can
be
sold
and
that
can
lead
to
services.
C
C
C
You
know
to
to
essentially
access
smart
contracts
for
automation,
yeah,
the
the
facilities,
the
verifiable
credentials,
and
that
allows
it
to
scale
because
it's
a
decentralized
model
right.
So
it's
not
a
centralized
model
and
so
that
that's
what
we've
been
doing
and
we
believe
that
there's
a
bridge
to
the
Future.
Well,
so
we
believe
that
there
will
be
a
metaverse
of
things.
So
we
believe
that
the
data
from
iot
devices
and
the
link
to
of
digital
twins
of
devices
in
the
industrial
metabass
will
be
pretty
big,
but
also
we're.
C
Seeing
now
that
you
know
billions
of
devices
across
the
world
in
different
scenarios
being
used
for
different
things,
what
better
source
of
information
coming
going
into
AI
large
language
models-
and
we
want
to
now
in
the
future,
connect
the
the
data
coming
from
devices
and
allow
that
to
be
sold.
Real-Time
to
to
llms.
B
So
because
imagine
this
right,
like
especially
in
the
in
the
scenario,
the
fleet
of
cars,
you
know
hundreds
of
cars
in
a
fleet-
and
you
know
daily.
These
need
to
be
charged,
or
sometimes
more
than
once
a
day
there's
so
much
of
you
know,
transactions
happening
can
that
could
potentially
all
be
made
seamless
now
for
a
use
case
like
that.
Is
that
already
you
know?
Can
that
already
happen
today
or
we're
talking
in
the
very
near
future?
No.
C
So
so
one
beauty
of
the
digitalizer
broker
platform
and
what
we're
really
proud
of
is
that
we've
taken
it
from
an
idea
from
proof
of
concept
through
to
MVP,
but
it's
actually
live
so
we
launched
the
digital
Esther
broker.
Platform
is
launched
by
our
past
CEO,
a
Vodafone
Accra
at
the
at
the
Mobile
World
Congress
in
Barcelona,
in
February,
2021.
C
I'm
and
we've
been
sort
of
pushing
it
ever
since
we
launched
EV
charging
last
year,
live
in
the
UK,
we're
now
extending
that
across
Europe
and
it's
live
and,
and
it's
a
great
example
of
what
I
said
before,
which
are
devices
having
identity.
Now,
in
this
case
cars
having
identities,
these
are
individual
cars
or
fleet
cars
or
OEM.
C
You
know
auto
manufacturer
cars
and
then
communicating
with
another
device
which
are
the
charges
right
and
you
have
charges
with
an
identity
caused
with
an
identity
and
and
what's
what's
even
even
more
exciting.
Is
that
if
you
look
at
the
identity,
quadrant
or
triangular
triangle,
you
have
people
business
and
things
right.
C
You,
Got,
You
always
have
people
business
and
things
a
device
cannot
exist
on
its
own.
It
has
to
be.
It
has
to
have
a
derived
identity
of
a
business
or
or
a
person,
but
in
this
case
you
have
a
device
which
is
a
connected
car,
a
device
which
is
a
charger
and
and
we
can
also
link
that
to
the
identity
of
the
person
driving
it
right.
C
So
you
put
the
you
attach
the
wallet
and
the
payment
credential
to
to
the
vehicle,
and
you
can
then
authenticate
different
drivers.
Different
feed
drivers,
temporary
whatever
to
that
vehicle
and
authenticate
them
to
use
that
one
payment
credential
in
the
vehicle,
so
you've
got
many
drivers
who
can
use
one
payment
credentials
so
so
that
makes
that
simplifies
the
model
for
the
for
The
Fleets.
C
But
then
the
the
link
of
the
digital
asset
broker
identities
and
wallets
and
transactions
and
smart
contracts
makes
the
actual
transaction
itself
simple
right
and
seamless.
Now,
Tesla
are
able
to
do
this
because
you
know
the
car
is
Tesla.
The
drivers
Tesla
the
Chargers
are
tested,
so
they
have
a
closed
loop
system.
But
what
we're
able
to
do
with
web3
is
allow
different,
auto
manufacturers,
different
fleets,
different
charging
companies
across
and
different
people
to
all
trust
each
other
using
web3.
C
B
So
I
think
this
is
the
this
is
the
exact
example
of
that,
creating
that
real
world
utility
right
if
I
go
back
attending
conferences
two
three
years
ago,
the
whole
thing
was
like
hey:
we
need
to
see
utility
and
I
think
now
this
is
coming
to
fruition,
which
is
great
for
the
industry
right
now.
You
you
work
for
a
very
big.
You
know,
name
in
in
the
in
the
mobile
phone
business.
B
C
Now
yeah
I
I
can
give
you
my
my
opinion,
so
so
I,
you
know,
I
do
a
number
of
presentations
on
The,
Meta,
verse
and
you'll
see.
There's
one
slide.
I
present,
where
you
know
you
start
off
with
the
8
million
smart
for
8
billion
smartphones,
and
then
you
start
seeing
the
smartphone
with
the
glasses,
which
is
kind
of
what
Apple
presented.
C
And
then
you
start
just
seeing
the
glasses
so
so
I
think
you'll
have
convergence
of
of
access.
You
know
access
devices,
but
we've
got
to
be
realistic.
There's
eight
billion
smartphones
in
the
world.
It's
taken
us
a
long
time
to
get
that
level
of
penetration
and
a
lot
of
the
use
cases
that
we
have
a
lot
of
the
user,
Journeys
and
experiences
and
everything
we
do
is
app-based
and
it's
based
on
the
phone.
So
I
don't
see
the
phone
going
going
anywhere
soon.
C
I
think
there's
some
developments
that
need
to
happen
with
the
glasses.
So
so
at
the
moment
you
have
two
ways
of
content
being
delivered
right.
Two
main
ways
you
have
streaming
and
with
streaming
you
need
less
Hardware.
You
need
less
bulky
devices
because
it's
about
buffering,
Etc
and
then
you
have
then
you
have
downloading
and
and
where
you
need
memory
and
I.
Think
at
the
moment
you
know
the
the
the
devices
that
we
use
to
access.
C
C
Then
the
glasses
become
Tinder
and
and
I
think
that's
the
point
of
which
you'll
start
to
see
more
convergence
with
with
the
mobile
phone
as
we
get
more
used
to
the
the
net
of
our
space
and
that
and
interacting
with
content
through
the
metabust
but
I
think
for
now
the
glasses
will
be
there
and
and
and
and
they'll
coexist
with
the
smartphone,
and
we
will
need
that.
So
so.
C
So
what
will
be
important
is
that
the
we
that
people
are
able
to
access,
metaverse
content
and
taught
participate
in
metaverse
communities
via
the
mobile
right
I
think
you
know
if
we
look
at
some
of
the
forecasts
for
metaverse
opportunity,
which
everybody's
backing
up
from
now,
but
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
hold
them
to
it
anyway,
but
you
you
had.
You
know
McKinsey,
for
example,
that
forecasts
back
in
2022.
C
You
know
the
mediverse
opportunity
would
be
worth
five
us
five
trillion
and
we
had
City
come
up
with
something
yeah
in
the
trillions
and
I
think
now
they're
they're
sort
of
moving
away
from
that.
But
even
if
it's
one
trillion
right,
that's
one
percent,
roughly
of
global
GDP,
that's
not
people
at
home
with
a
set
of
glasses
right!
That's
people
driving
their
Vans
people
that
work
people
in
different
circumstances.
So
so
so
I
I,
don't
see
everybody.
You
know
in
the
workspace
or
whatever
walking
around
with
the
big
glasses
right.
C
B
C
B
B
David
I
wanted
to
talk
about
nfts
for
a
couple
of
minutes
right.
So
when
we
talk
about
you
no
matter,
whereas
battery
nfds
or
you
know,
come
up,
Starbucks
is
doing
some
cool
things
with
nfts
and
creating
loyalty
points.
Nike
is
doing
a
lot
with
nfts
right,
I
think
they
they
a
lot
of
the
the
shoes,
both
high-end
and
different
price
points.
You
know,
there's
nfts,
there
I
think
they
even
sold
a
shoe
for
twenty.
B
C
Think
if
you
look
at
nfts,
they're
very,
very
exciting
I
think
they're
exciting
for
a
number
of
reasons,
because
they
represent
digital
ownership
but
they're
getting
more
sophisticated
right.
So
if
you
look
at
you
know
what
nfts
can
do
yeah
there's
a
number
of
you
know,
there's
a
number
of
things
they
can
do.
C
You
know
which,
which
are
really
exciting.
I
I
think
some
of
the.
If
you
look
at
some
of
the
new
standards
that
are
coming
out,
you
know
you
have
time
bound
nfts
right.
So
so
so
you
know
you
had
nfts,
which
which
are
non-fungible
and
they
represent.
They
represented
ownership
of
the
asset
and
now
we're
seeing
the
emergence
of
time-bound
nfts.
Where,
essentially
that
and
the
asset
could
be
rented
out,
it
could
be
leased
out.
It
can
be
a
temporary
ownership
that
you
transfer
recently.
C
We
we've
also
seen
Royal
loyalty
or
royalty
nfts
were
essentially.
If
you
create
an
asset,
you
you
know,
be
it
a
service
or
a
software
or
whatever.
You
know,
every
time
that
asset
is
sold
or
exchange,
you
can
get
a
royalty
from
it
right
so
that
that's
another
cool
thing
and
then
recently
you're
seeing
smart
contracts
come
out.
Where,
essentially
you
can.
C
You
can
bundle
nfts
in
with
other
tokens,
so
you
know
fractionalized
tokens
or
erc20
tokens
in
ethereum
language,
so
I
think
nfts,
you
know
are
going
to
be
a
very,
very
big
part
of
the
token
economy.
I
think
that'd
be
a
very
big
part
of
the
economy.
Again,
you
know
they
were
at
the
top
of
the
hype
cycle
in
2021.
C
C
You
know
the
the
token
of
ownership
represent
ownership
in
the
car
right.
Can
that
then
allow
you
to
have
a
digital
copy
of
it?
You
know,
can
the
nft,
then,
if
you
have
a
car
which
is
with
the
ownership,
is
represented
by
an
nft?
Does
the
nft
become
the
point
of
sale
right,
so
you
sell
the
digital
version.
You
get
the
real
version,
you
know,
will
you
have
nft
mortgages?
Will
you
have
nft
credit
default
swaps?
Well,
you
have
an
nft
hedge
funds.
C
I
mean
the
the
potential
of
nfts
as
I
said,
we're
only
beginning
to
see
to
see
them,
so
I'm
really
excited
about
them.
I!
Think,
there's
you
know
in
terms
of
digital
asset
broker.
You
know
we
would
look
at
nft.
You
know
issuing
nfts
for
every
iot
device
that
we
register
on
them
right,
so
so
that
you
know
that
that
that
that
represents
the
digital
ownership
in
both
sides
and
and
could
be
the
basis
for
for
transaction.
You
know
the
means
of
transacting
those
assets
going
forward
before.
B
And
I
you
know
I
when
I
look
at
all
of
this
it
you
know,
regardless
of
you
know
where
the
use
cases
happen.
Etc
right
with
you
know,
everything
is
happening
with
with
web
free,
metaverse,
I.
Think
5G
being
the
underlying.
You
know
all
this
massive
sharing
of
data
it
5G
makes
it
so
much
of
easier,
so
I
think
a
lot
of
the
the
you
know.
C
Time
yeah
I
mean
most
of
the
Technologies.
You
look
on
need
connectivity,
Cloud,
mad
of
us
AI
web3
web
2,
I
mean
they're.
All
you
know
the
connectivity
is
is
underneath
all
of
them
right
and
connectivity
is
needing
to
evolve.
So
I
think
5G
is
one
of
those
Evolutions
or
improvements
we
have
but
there's
other
things.
C
Network
slicing
aggregation,
there's
a
number
of
things
that
that
are
on
the
way
to
to
make
you
know
that
connectivity
more
efficient,
but
but
but
but
it
is
the
basis
of
everything
you
can't
have
a
metaverse.
Without
connectivity,
you
can't
without
the
connectivity
you
can't
have
a
AI
without
connectivity,
especially
where
we're
talking
about
going
with
AI,
which
is
real
time
right.
B
Now
when,
when
this
exchange
of
value
between
devices
right,
does
it
still
make
sense
for
the
for
the
Fiat
currencies
to
be
the
the
the
the
the
you
know
for
the
for
that
value
to
happen,
or
does
it
make
sense
it
will
it
be
more
efficient
if
these
machines
are
buying
and
selling
data
or
the
exchange
of
value
is
through
a
cryptocurrency
right
or
a
digital
asset?
Or
will
we
see
a
hybrid
approach
right.
C
Really
good
question
so
I
think.
If
we
look
at
the
original
use
case
for
Bitcoin
and
others,
it
was
as
a
medium
of
exchange
right,
it
was,
it
was
okay,
I
I
can
use,
and
we
had
the
famous
yeah
story
of
the
Bitcoin
pizza
right,
the
guy
who
beat
the
Bitcoin
these
pizza
with
Bitcoin,
and
it's
God
knows
how
many
millions
is.
Oh,
it's
it's!
C
The
other.
The
other
thing
that's
been
really
negative
with
you
know
tokens,
as
you
know,
crypto
as
a
medium
of
exchanges,
being
the
gas
fees
right
and
the
variation
and
the
gas
fees
and
the
time
to
finality
and
some
of
these
other
issues,
we've
had
you
know
low
TPS,
making
that
finality
really
hard.
C
Of
course,
one
of
the
big
stories
in
web3
and
blockchain
has
been
layer,
twos,
right
and
layer
twos.
You
know
CK
Roll-Ups,
optimistic
Roll-Ups,
you
know
or
yeah
yeah.
These
things
are
are
making
you
know
the
the
transaction
costs
or
the
the
the
the
the
unit
cost
of
transactions
go
down
and
we're
also
seeing
some
pragmatism
in
terms
of
what
can
be
done
on
chain
and
what
can
be
done
off
Gene,
so
I
think
things
are
getting
better,
but
I.
C
I
also
think
that
the
fintech
and
banking
world
are
also
coming
to
the
party.
So
so
one
of
the
partners
we
went
with
MasterCard
recently
introduced
something
called
tokenized
deposits,
so
you've
got
the
MasterCard
token
Network
and
essentially,
what
that's
doing
is
allowing
potentially
allowing
users
to
take
money
directly
out
of
their
bank
accounts
and
and
and
and
move
it
into
tokens
so
acting
as
a
stable
coin,
but
without
having
to
eat
in
the
intermediary
of
my
money,
I
buy
a
stable
coin.
C
You
know
the
money
in
your
bank
is
a
stable
coin
in
whatever
denomination,
so
that
is
potentially
pretty
big
right
and
that
could
that
that
could
lower
the
barriers
between
you
know
between
tokens
and
and
Fiat
money,
but
there's
another
way
to
look
at
it
right.
So
that's
where
you're
going
from
Fiat
to
tokens,
but
the
other
way
you
look
at
it
is
okay.
Why
are
why
are
people
going
from
tokens
to
theater?
Why?
Why
are
we
doing
that
right?
Part
of
it?
C
Is
that
that's
what
people
are
charging
in,
but
where
you
have
exchange,
which
are
exchanges
which
are
already
allowing
you
to
you
know
to
to
exchange
tokens.
Actually,
if
you
look
at
exchanging
tokens
the
different
tokens,
why
can't
you
just
pay
in
tokens?
You
know
and
and
exchange
one
token
for
another?
Why
can't
you
know
you
know,
for
example,
you
know
Vodafone
pay
for
office
space
using
a
Vodafone
token,
and
we
work
paper
connectivity
using
a
rework
token
right.
C
You
know
that's
where
you
have
what
I
call
digital
Bata,
which
is
essentially
where
you
have
tokens
being
tokens
which
have
a
service
value
being
exchanged
for
other
tokens
which
have
a
service
value.
Now
you
don't
need
to
go
out
of
the
token
economy,
and
essentially
you
know
that's
something
that
hasn't
been
exploited.
It's
always
okay,
let's
on-ramp
an
off-ramp,
but
why?
Why
are
you
doing
that
for
everything?
C
Why
do
you
need
to
do
that
when
you've
got
exchanges
that
are
coming
in
the
the
the
that
are
there
and
you
can
exchange
one
token
for
another
and
I?
Think
the
more
you
know
the
the
more
vendors
or
you
know,
suppliers
who
are
able
to
take
token
Etc.
You
know,
then
maybe
that
could
be
a
useful
supplement
to
you
know
where
things
can
be
done
from
start
to
finishing
tokens
right
and
consumed
in
that
way,
but
but
where
you're
going
into
Fiat,
then
then
there
have
been
barriers
but
I.
B
This
has
been
a
riveting
conversation.
David
now
I
want
to.
You
know,
take
a
couple
of
questions
from
the
audience,
and
this
is
a
great
question
and
I'll
just
modify
it
a
little
bit.
The
question
is
around
what
what
do
you
think
of
some
of
the
elements
that
can
speed
up
the
metaverse
adoption,
but
before
you
address
that,
could
you
also
tell
me
what
are
some
of
the
challenges?
C
All
right,
so
it's
obviously
the
challenge
is
to
adoption,
are:
are
the
handsets
right,
so
I
think
there's
there's
two
major
things
right.
The
medivas
generally
needs
consistent
high-speed,
low
latency
connectivity
and
what
you'll
find
is
that
a
lot
of
the
countries
that
need
it
both
who
can
benefit
most
don't
have
that
kind
of
infrastructure
right.
So
there's
got
to
be
equality
of
connectivity
and
that's
a
challenge
at
the
moment
because,
generally
the
rich
countries,
you
know,
have
the
infrastructure,
the
poor
one
stone.
C
C
We
were
all
excited
about
the
Apple
Pro
headset
announcement,
but
then,
when
we
saw
the
price
point
you
know,
yeah
I
think
you
know,
professionals,
you
know
I'll
be
the
first
to
put
my
name
down
to
buy
the
headset
right,
but
you
know
you're
thinking,
you're
a
poor
person
in
African
or
Asian
or
another
country,
and
you
simply
can't
afford
it
right.
That's
the
year's
wages
or
you
know
earnings.
So
so
so
so
you
know
those
are
barriers.
C
If
you're
gonna
get
High
scale,
adoption
the
cost
of
Entry
needs
to
be
low
and
the
means
to
entry
needs
to
be
widespread
and
I.
Think
at
the
moment
those
two
things
are
are
challenging
and
I.
Think
one
thing
that
was
exciting
and
very
smart
about
Apple's
announcement
was
they.
They
came
with
content
so
straight
away.
They
said
right.
You
can
get
all
these
movies
that
you
can
watch
on
the
headset
you've
got.
You
know
everything
on
the
App
Store
will
be
available
on
there.
So
straight
away.
C
There
was
content,
and
that's
going
to
be
a
big
turret
for
people
to
be
able
to
to
adopt
is
like
okay,
I'm
gonna
go
on
there,
because
I
can
get
this
content
or
I
can
get
I
can
use
all
my
content.
I've
got,
but
I
can
get
some
new
content.
So
I
think
those
are
our
considerations.
How
do
you
meet
those
challenges?
C
C
Eight
million
people
and
you've
got
to
make
I
work
with
wallets
and
you've
got
to
make
it
work
with
social
media,
because
I
think
where
you,
where
you
embedded
in
those
things
and
I,
think
we're
closer
to
that
now,
because
yeah
I
believe
what's
happening
naturally
is
we're.
Moving
away
from
building
this
infrastructure
called
the
metabass,
which
is
this.
You
know
this
all-encompassing
medavast,
which
sits
alongside
the
real
world
and
I
think
a
more
pragmatic
view.
Now
is
you're
going
to
have
the
meta
metaverse
you'll
have
the
Apple
metaverse
you'll.
C
Have
you
know
other
metabuses,
the
Instagram
metaverse
and
Twitter
metaverse
and
eventually
they'll
come
together.
So
that
allows
you
to
get
quick
adoption
because
it
allows
these
platforms
to
have
the
ecosystem,
to
quickly
embed
immersive
experiences
and
and
to
get
people
familiar
with
it.
And
then
then
they'll
want
to
move
that
and
Port
that
across
which
will
start
converging
towards
what
more
of
the
ideal
metaverse.
B
And
then
so
we
spoke
with
challenges
and
then
any
suggestions
you
know
do
in
terms
of
speeding
up
the
adoption.
What
advice
would
you
give
you
know
is
any
of
your
peers
right
based
on
maybe
some
of
the
challenges
you
saw
in
your
own
organization.
You
know
getting
you
know,
buying
from
you
know,
at
the
board
level,
Senior
Management
level
to
from
that
perspective,
any
any
suggestions
on
what
what
are
some
of
the
things
they
could.
C
Do
to
drive
so
so
in
terms
of
the
business
matter,
best
I,
think
digital
twins,
you
know,
and
and
the
industrial
Med
of
us
is
doing
pretty
well
in
terms
of
the
consumer
mode
of
us.
I
I
think
that
the
the
this
exciting
one
of
the
big
things
I'll
say
is:
don't
try
and
sell
a
big
plan
right.
It's
not
going
to
be
a
big
buying.
As
I
said.
It's
not
going
to
be
this.
C
You
know,
you're
gonna
sit
down
one
day
and
the
next
day
you
switch
on
and
there's
this
madiverse
and
we
all
go
into
it.
It's
not
gonna.
It's
not
gonna
arrive
like
that.
So
so
so
part
of
the
advice
I
would
give
is,
is
pick
an
area
of
the
metabaster.
That's
value
and
the
metabus
will
not
add
value
to
every
business.
Right
again,
you
look
at
yeah
two,
two
key
factors.
C
You
know
the
value
added
from
removing,
so
so
the
benefits
of
removing
geography,
the
value
added
from
the
levels
of
immersiveness
and
clearly,
if
you're
a
car
mechanic,
maybe
the
the
industrial
metaverse
will
help,
but
if
you're
selling
hamburgers-
maybe
not
right,
you
know
it
depends
so
you've
got
to
find
the
right
area
where
it
adds
a
value
and
and
don't
sell
the
big
bang
and
take
take,
take
take
value-added
steps.
You
know,
use
it
where
it's
going
to
add
value
and
I.
C
Think
that's
where
we're
going
with
it.
Now,
where
does
it
add
value
education?
Yes,
you
know,
you
know
immersive
3D
movies,
yes,
I,
I,
think
I.
Think
I
think
those
are
the
sensible
things,
but
then
the
other
thing
I
would
I
would
say-
and
this
is
from
being
on
the
ground
with
it-
is
that
the
metabus
does
not.
It
doesn't
exist
in
isolation
right.
The
metaverse
works
with
AI,
it
works
with
web3,
it
works
with
web
2.
C
and
the
magic
will
be
how
you
combine
the
metaverse
or
how
the
medavast
can
combine
these
Technologies
to
provide
new
businesses,
new
Solutions,
New,
Opportunities
and
I.
Think
one
of
the
key
ones
where,
where
these
two
things
really
need,
each
other
is
AI
on
the
metabus
I
think
they
go
together.
Right
AI
needs
a
Persona.
You
cannot
interact
with
AI
in
isolation.
C
If
AI
is
going
to
replace
300
million
jobs,
then
it's
going
to
replace
people
that
we
call
people
that
we
interact
with
physically
and
how's
how's,
the
ai
ai,
going
to
bridge
the
physicality
and
the
environment.
It's
going
to
be
metaverse
and
in
the
same
way
the
metabus
needs
the
intelligence
of
AI
to
bring
personalized
experiences
right.
So
you
look
at
these
two
things
and
and
I.
C
Think
part
of
the
magic
of
the
medavask
is
how
you
can
then
use
it
as
a
bridge
to
interact
with
these
other
Technologies
and
give
them
personal
physical
interaction,
experiences
and
I
think
that
that
is
the
key
to
unlocking
it.
Once
you
realize
that
Ai
and
the
metaverse
go
together,
Ai
and
web3
go
together.
Ai
and
web
2
go
together.
C
Then
you
realize
that
the
metaverse
doesn't
exist
in
isolation,
but
it's
a
complementary
technology
that
that
actually
brings
all
these
things
together
for
our
benefit
and
the
benefit
of
the
customer
experience
and
our
convenience
and
that
that
then
has
more
power
than
just
we're.
Moving
to
the
metaverse
super.
B
And
I'm
so
glad
you
addressed
that
that
was
one
of
the
questions
I
had
on
my
list.
You
know
should,
should
you
know,
leaders
like
you
businessly,
you
know,
Executives
leaders
like
you
driving
blockchain
projects.
Should
you
do
the
Big
Bang,
sell
the
big
Vision
approach
or
prove
one
use
case,
and
you
know
and
start
from
there.
So
thank
you
for
advertising
that
we're
almost
done.
I
just
want
to
take
a
quick
pause
here.
B
I
did
see
a
question
on
real
estate
and
nfts
I
want
to
share
with
the
hyperledger
community
that
on
August
22nd
we
are
hosting
an
event
called
token
Expo,
it's
in
collaboration
with
hyperledger
and
a
few
other
entities
in
the
ecosystem.
We
have
a
great
lineup
of
speakers,
we'll
be
covering
use
cases
on
real
estate,
Capital
markets
and
supply
chain
and
many
other
areas.
So
it's
a
four
hour
event:
9
A.M
California
time,
which
I
believe
is
4,
P.M,
GMT
and
I.
B
Believe
David,
and
some
of
the
folks
at
hype
at
hyperledger
will
make
those
announcements
very
soon.
So
please
try
to
join
us
on
August
22nd
David.
Before
we
end,
you
didn't
tell
me
the
name
of
the
book.
You
know
you
mentioned
you're
writing
when
is
it
available?
When
is
you
know?
Where
can
we
find
it
and
and
what
what's
the?
What's
the
What's
the
title
of
the
book
right.
C
So
so
the
call
the
book
is
called
the
business
of
the
medevas
and
it's
published
by
Cogan,
page
and
I
will
I
I?
Will
I
will
put
a
link
in
the
chat
here,
but
I'll
try
and
do
it
now
so
so
yeah
really
excited
I
put
my
heart
into
it.
So
so
you
know
I
I
do
come
with
with
maybe
different
viewpoints
from
what
you'd
normally
find.
B
Put
it
on,
while
you
post
the
link,
there
was
a
couple
of
questions:
yeah
I
will
we
will
share
the
the
event.
Is
token
Exposed
on
the
22nd
I'll
work
with
David
Boswell
and,
like
I,
said
the
hyper
privilege
of
folks
to
you
know
to
push
that
out
to
the
hyperledger
community.
It's
the
22nd,
not
the
26th.
B
It
perfect
so
David.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
time.
We
are
reaching
the
end
of
our
hour.
This
was
a
fascinating
conversation.
I
wish
we
had
more
time
but
I'm,
hoping
in
the
future
we'll
have
you
back,
join
us
for
a
future
event
and
maybe
even
do
an
in-person
event
in
London.
If
that's
possible
and-
and
you
know,
do
something
you
know
in
person
in
the
future,
but
that
I
want
to
turn
it
over
to
David
Boswell
folks,
everybody
thank
you
for
joining
us
David.
Thank
you.