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Description
The rate of technological change in trade has never been quicker, but in an industry still reliant on paper documents and processes, as well as complex supply chains, there remain significant challenges. Senior management executives from Bank of America, IBM and Marco Polo Network discuss the opportunities digitization can bring to trade, and how partnerships are becoming key to integrating next-generation technology into the innovation cycle.
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
A
Great
well
welcome
everybody
to
the
26th
of
July,
2022,
hyperledger
supply
chain
and
trade
Finance
special
interest
group
session
today.
We're
going
to
have
Dave
minell
from
the
international
Chamber
of
Commerce
talked
with
all
about
us
talk
with
us
about
uniform
rules
for
digital
trade
transactions,
which
you
see
on
the
screen
right
there
and
we're
glad
to
have
them
here.
A
We
I
guess
since
we're
part
of
hyperledger
here,
first
off,
we'll
just
go
through
the
standard
disclaimer
all
are
welcome,
so
glad
that
everyone's
here
also
in
a
trust
Provisions
that
please
don't
share
anything,
that's
competitive
information
or
inclusion,
or
anything
like
that.
This
is
an
open
session
for
all
of
us
to
learn
as
well
as
collaborate
and
have
open
questions
and
all
those
kind
of
wonderful
things.
So
this
is
Tom
Klein
I'm,
one
of
the
co-chairs
of
the
special
interest
group.
A
We
also
have
on
Eric
bellaquette,
who
is
based
in
Montreal
who's,
another
one
of
our
co-chairs
and
then
Andrea
frassenini,
who
you
see
underneath
Dave's
name.
There
is
another
one
of
our
co-chairs
and,
depending
on
what
day,
it
is
he's
either
based
in
Vinci
in
Italy
or
Pisa
or
Florence,
so
basically
Italy
there.
So
with
that
Dave
has
asked
to
allow
him
to
go
through.
A
His
presentation
have
questions
at
the
end.
Please,
if
you
have
questions,
maybe
put
him
in
chat
and
then
we
can
use
them
as
you
know,
so
you
don't
forget
about
them
or
have
to
save
them,
and
then
we
can
go
through
at
the
end,
we'll
go
for
till
the
top
of
the
hour
and
as
I
mentioned
we'll
get
this
out
on.
So
you
can
listen
to
the
recording
if
you
want
to
go
back
to
something
so
with
that
Dave,
it's
all
yours.
B
B
If
we
look
at
the
different
elements
of
financing
different
things
that
go
on
around
the
world,
trade
Finance
has
probably
been
the
slowest
over
the
previous
decades
in
moving
into
a
digital
world.
There's
so
much
paper
there,
unfortunately,
but
the
circumstances
of
the
last
two
to
three
years
now,
I
thought
was
to
rethink
in
the
trade
Finance
Arena
and
it's
really
bought
the
digitalization
into
Focus
as
never
before.
B
In
fact,
I'd
say:
we've
we've
seen
a
progression
that,
in
normal
times,
would
have
taken
us
about
five
years
to
reach
we're
still
at
the
early
stages.
But
if
you
can
see
in
this
Slide
the
building
blocks
via
numerous
evolving
Technologies
are
in
place.
The
challenge
that
we
have
is
to
digitally
replace
what
is
estimated
by
the
ICC
to
be
something
like
4
billion
documents
that
circulate
in
the
trade
system.
Four
billion
paper
documents
I
mean
that
has
to
go
digital.
It's
just
obvious.
B
Now,
on
this
slide,
you
can
see
some
of
the
new
technologies
that
actually
are
enabling
the
digitalization
of
trade
and
where
they
fit
into
the
cycle
from
pre-transaction
to
transaction
processing
to
post
transaction.
It's
not
one
of
my
slides.
You
can
see
at
the
bottom
is
produced
by
the
world
economic
forum
and
I
find
it
to
be
a
very
useful
picture
actually
in
order
to
illuminate
how
and
where
certain
Technologies
are
already
providing
benefit.
B
For
instance,
if
you
look
at
the
dlz
the
one
they
read
at
the
bottom
being
used
to
create
smartnesses
of
credit
to
enhance
document
Examination
for
real-time
verification
and
Reconciliation,
then
you
have
the
OCR
near
the
top,
the
optical
character,
recognition,
enabling
text
recognition
checking
for
completeness
of
documents.
Then
we
have
the
internet
of
things
with
the
ease
of
tracking
goods
and
documents
and
tracking
document
and
Goods
locations.
So
there's
a
lot
going
on.
B
It
has
been
going
back
to
the
G7
again
they
mentioned
last
year.
The
transferable
records
such
as
bills
of
lading
to
use
very,
very
heavily
in
trade,
are
the
most
important
commercial
document
in
trading
trade,
finance
and
yet
currently
Leicester.
One
percent
of
bills
of
loading
are
electronic
form
and
some
people
have
actually
said
it's
less
than
0.1.
So
it's
absolutely
my
new.
B
This
is
a
huge,
missed
opportunity,
given
that
electronic
transferable
records
will
make
it
easier,
cheaper,
faster
and
Greener
for
companies
to
trade,
it's
going
to
bring
Global
trades
or
into
the
21st
century,
basically,
when
enabling
businesses
across
the
globe
to
move
from
paper-based
to
digital
based
transactions
when
buying
and
selling
internationally,
but
I,
purposely
say
21st
century,
because
one
of
the
laws
that
Finance
of
international
trade
is
based
on
is
from
the
19th
century.
The
bill
of
exchange
acts
in
the
UK.
So
this
really,
as
you
can
tell,
really
leads
the
change
now.
B
None
of
this
will
happen.
We'll
never
achieve
these
design
objectives
if
the
regulatory
environment
remains
static
and
also
be
the
legal
side
as
well.
Fortunately,
that
is
far
from
the
case.
There
are
many
initiatives
in
developments
at
the
moment.
I'll
briefly
touched
on
the
one
on
the
top
left,
the
ICC
digital
Standards
Initiative.
B
You
know
what
I
really
want
to
emphasize
is
the
one
in
the
top
row,
which
is
unsitral
I
mentioned
earlier.
The
ongoing
work
by
the
G7
on
adoption
of
electronic
transferable
records,
this
work.
Well,
that
is
leveraging
upon
the
answer:
trial
model
law
on
electrons
on
electron
transferable
records
on
Molita
in
the
show
which
has
come
to
be
known.
The
scope
of
the
G7
work
is
going
to
Encompass
all
documents
of
title
and
transferable
records
relevant
to
International
Trade
transactions,
and
this
includes
bills
of
lading
promise.
B
B
What
we
are
suddenly
seeing
in
the
Market
at
the
moment.
It's
the
first
time:
it's
really
happened:
there's
a
convergence
finally
emerging
between
technology
between
platform
providers,
Market
practice
law
and
international
Chamber
of
Commerce
rules.
What
this
is
doing
is
slightly
what
I
call
the
industrial
tradition
so
frequently
when
I
talk,
unless
especially
banks,
by
the
way
when
we
talk
to
Banks
about
International
Trade,
they
have
done
things
in
a
certain
way
for
decades,
and
many
of
them
are
very
reluctant
to
change
and
see
no
reason
to
change,
let
their
inertia
of
tradition.
B
B
B
Then
three
years
back,
the
ICC
produced
two
sets
of
ICC
rules,
the
eucp
version
2.0,
the
eurc
version
1.0,
and
these
are
supplements
for
electronic
presentations
and
the
letters
of
credit
and
collections
and
then
last
year
October,
the
the
the
the
focus
of
this,
this
webinar,
the
ICC
uniforms
with
additional
trade
transactions,
which
serves
as
the
overarching
framework
for
the
digital
trade
transactions
that
are
background
to
the
urdtt.
As
I've
said,
it
came
into
Force
last
year
on
the
1st
of
October,
so
it
is
still
very
much
in
its
infancy.
B
At
the
exception
of
the
drafting
process,
the
drafting
group
was
given
a
strict
mandate
to
develop
a
higher
level
framework
outlining
obligations,
rules
and
standards
for
the
digitalization
of
trade
transactions,
and
this
was
and
is
the
purpose
of
the
rules.
Now
this
work
has
now
been
supplemented
by
a
commercialization
substream,
which
was
established
early
last
year.
It's
got
cross-industry
representation
from
all
key
trade
regions,
and
this
group
is
examining
both
the
ICC
e-rules
and
the
urvt,
and
it's
developing
a
framework
to
evaluate
the
challenges
and
ideas
to
drive
commercialization
and
adoption
forward.
B
There'll
be
a
very
comprehensive
plan
coming
out
later
this
year
and
recommendations
and
how
we
move
forward,
but
in
the
meantime
there
is
already
an
implementation
Guide
to
the
urdgt
that's
been
published
for
those
that
are
interested.
This
can
be
downloaded
free
of
charge
from
the
ICC
website
and
this
guy
details
kind
of
various
generic
themes
which
need
to
be
taken
into
account
when
we're
utilizing
the
urdt
and
includes
the
buyer
and
seller
agreement
legally,
choose
which
I'll
touch
them
again
later.
B
Any
digital
trade
transaction
subject
to
the
UI
DT
must
be
digital,
only
no
paper,
all
of
ICC
rules
in
our
paper.
These
rules-
don't
we're
only
looking
at
this
of
a
as
a
digital
world,
of
significant
importance
is
the
basis
of
the
rules
in
that
they
are
not
Bank
Centric
everything
did
rise
from
the
buyer
and
a
seller
agreement
and
of
equal
significance.
The
rules
recognize
that
Financial
Services
providers
these
days
are
no
longer
restricted
to
just
Banks.
B
Both
of
these
issues
are
very
big
departure
from
previous
ICC
rules,
but
they
fit
into
the
modern
world
in
which
we
are
now
dealing
a
high
level
process.
I
mean
you're
all
going
to
get
this
presentation.
I
guess
so
you
can
spend
some
more
time
looking
at
it
separately,
but
very
briefly,
it
isn't
a
high
level
overview
of
the
actual
process.
B
B
A
conditional
payment
obligation
is
incurred
by
a
buyer
among
upon
compliance
by
the
seller
in
submitting
electric
records
that
evidence,
the
underlying
sale
of
purchase
of
the
goods
or
services
and
an
unconditional
payment
obligation
is
incurred
by
a
buyer
bomb.
Compliance
want
to
seller
in
submitted
electorate
records,
the
evidence,
the
actual
delivery
or
receipt
of
these
goods
or
services.
B
A
financial
services
provider
can
add
a
payment
undertaking
to
a
payment
obligation
at
any
time.
Even
when
it's
conditional
I
mean
it's
added
to
a
paper
obligation,
it's
Inseparable
from
that
payment
obligation,
the
payment
obligation
itself
is
always
independent
of
the
commercial
contracts
and
as
the
financial
services
provider,
payment
undertaking
is
also
added
to
that.
The
same
applies.
That
is
a
very
quick
brief
overview.
B
I
know
it
doesn't
give
you
any
time
to
assimilate
the
contact,
the
content
there,
but
at
least
it
gives
you
a
very
quick
picture
to
go
for
it
in
depth
is
a
couple
of
hours
to
be
honest,
so
the
key
principles,
what
is
a
digital
trade
transaction
I
mean
I've
already
touched
on
this?
It's
a
process,
as
agreed
by
the
buyer
and
seller,
whereby
electronic
records
are
used
to
evidence
the
underlying
assailant
purchase
of
good
source
services
and
incurring
of
a
payment
obligation
in
order
to
be
subject
to
the
to
the
rules.
B
So
what
are
the
benefits?
The
urdt
T
allow
for
transactors
in
an
electronic
format.
That's
the
key
thing.
The
changes
in
law
that
were
derive
from
the
uncontrollable
leaders
rules
allow
for
possession
of
digital
negotiable
instruments.
Possession's
always
been
a
stumbling
block
in
the
past.
Moving
to
a
digital
world,
it's
easy
to
evidence,
possession
with
a
piece
of
paper
not
so
easy
they
just
want,
and
for
this
the
rules
themselves
are
already
ready,
just
a
recap
on
digital
trade
instruments.
B
A
quick
word
again,
I'm
a
leader,
it's
already
been
enacted
in
a
few
countries,
including
Bahrain
Singapore
Paraguay
and
the
uie,
and
it's
envisaged
at
the
UK
will
introduce
compatible
legislation
later
this
year
or
early
next
year,
and
we
expect
lots
of
other
G7
countries
to
follow.
Additionally,
in
view
of
the
fact
that
many
countries
from
the
Commonwealth
share
a
common
legal
history
with
the
UK,
an
English
law,
we
could
see
a
very
quick
uptake
in
these
locations
as
well,
which
is
something
like
54
to
56.
Independent
countries.
B
They
need
to
authenticate
messages
and
they
need
to
be
able
to
execute
electronic
signatures
at
the
basic
minimum.
A
data
processing
system
should
be
able
to
process
the
data
and
maintain
adequate
standards
on
the
adoption
side.
Various
platforms
have
already
stated
their
intention
to
adopt
and
work
with
a
urvtd.
B
In
fact,
if
you
already
are
including
it
within
their
rule
books
on
this
slide,
you
can
see
the
commitment
from
the
Marco
Polo
Network
to
adopt
urdt
terminology
and
scope
in
this
one
here,
sdox
that
they've
already
Incorporated
the
urdt
into
their
platform
Solutions
and
the
only
last
one
I
have
here.
The
third
example
is
console
or
actively
looking
at
developing
trade
products
based
upon
the
urvtc
and
then
very
quickly.
I
just
grab
three
of
four
examples
here,
where
there's
public
support
out
there
in
the
market.
B
Two
more
here,
the
ICC
sensor
for
digital
trading
innovation.
It's
obvious
that
digitalization
is
going
to
enable
us
to
deliver
a
more
inclusive,
sustainable
and
Greener
trading
system
where
more
smes
can
participate
in
trade,
the
trade
is
finance
becomes
more
accessible
and
paper
is
no
longer
required.
B
Now
the
center
for
digital
trade,
Innovation
or
C4
DCI
for
short,
provides
a
unique
opportunity
to
make
this
a
reality
and
it
meets
it's
in
the
UK
and
it
makes
the
UK
government's
Ambitions
have
a
modern,
open
trading
system
with
the
rest
of
the
world
and
other
relations
in
the
regions
such
as
Australia,
China,
Germany,
Japan,
Netherlands,
Singapore,
Thailand,
there's
many
more
are
moving
also
quickly
to
capitalize
upon
the
benefits
of
digital
trade.
So
this
is
an
opportunity
for
the
UK
to
develop.
B
The
electronic
trade
documents
which
I've
mentioned
on
here
legislation
I've
touched
this
already
is
actually
underway
in
the
UK
to
implement
such
a
bill.
Now,
whilst
this
may
look
like
a
small
piece
of
legislation
from
the
outside,
it's
actually
a
game.
Changer
for
World
Trade
much
of
World
Trade
is
underpinned
by
English
law.
B
It's
a
legacy
of
the
UK's
historic
role
in
trade,
not
just
across
the
Commonwealth,
but
for
every
buyer
seller,
insurer,
financier
intermediary
that
uses
English
law
as
a
basis
for
contract
law
or
handling
trade
transactions
and
documents.
The
bill
will
actually
have
a
disproportionately
large
and
positive
impact
on
global
trade.
B
A
time
when
companies
are
looking
to
get
their
trade
costs
reduced
they're
unsustainably
high
these
days
because
of
paper
documents-
and
this
was
particularly
so
for
smes
and
parts
of
the
world
where
the
cost
of
a
trade
can
be
higher
in
the
actual
value
of
the
trade.
So
industry
can
now
finally
start
standardizing
the
digital
trade
system
and
start
connecting
the
platforms.
B
I
was
last
on
the
on
the
former
slides.
This
presentation
is
about
the
urdgc
I've
also
mentioned
about
electronic
trade
documents.
The
ICC
UK
has
actually
already
released
a
paper
on
the
urdtt
and
electronic
trade
documents
Bill,
and
this
examines
how
the
ICC
rules
are
compatible
with
the
proposed
legislative
change
in
the
UK.
With
regards
to
the
use
of
possessable
electronic
trade
documents,
assets
out
and
recommendations
of
law
Commission
is
also
downloadable
free
of
charge
from
the
ITC
UK
website.
B
If
you
guys
want
to
have
a
look
at
it
and
then
finally,
the
ICC
digital
Standards
Initiative,
the
idea
of
that
is
to
establish
a
globally
harmonized
trade
environment
to
address
challenges
and
Bridge
trade.
Digital
standard
gaps-
and
these
include
lack
of
coconut
standards
that
we
have
at
the
moment
the
legal
uncertainty
regarding
the
acceptance
of
digital
trade
documentation.
The
fact
we
have
platform
Rule
books
are
hindering
change
document
exchange,
neutralization,
unclear
requirements
for
trade
standards
and
insufficient
standards
to
simplify
blockchain,
a
non-blockchain
based
integration.
B
A
Great
thanks
Dave
for
sharing
that
and
you're
right,
we'll
be
wanting
to
go
through
those
charts
after
this
and
dive
in
in
more
details.
So
thanks
for
sharing
the
charts,
we'll
get
them
out
together
with
the
video
for
this
recording
of
this.
So
there
are
a
couple
questions
in
the
in
the
chat
here.
So
the
first
question
is
from
Michael
Darden
and
he
asks
how
do
ISO
8
000
standards
for
portable
quality
data
align
with
your
work.
B
Okay,
now
I'm
no
expert
on
that,
but
I
am
fully
aware
that
the
ICC
commercialization
subgroup,
I
talked
about
is
looking
very
closely
at
ISO
standards.
Now.
The
brief
information
I
have
at
the
moment
is
that
there
is
nothing
within
ISO
standards
that
conflicts
with
a
urdt
team.
There
is
a
compatibility
there
already,
so
I
would
hope
that
the
as
some
say
that
commercialization
group
I'm
talking
about
will
release
a
paper
explain
that
in
more
depth,
but
all
up
inside
this
stage
they
seem
to
be
compatible.
There's
no
conflict
well,.
A
B
That's
a
great
question
Chris.
Yes,
we
are
actually
in
fact
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
work
coming
out
of
China
on
this
issue.
They
themselves
are
fully
aware
of
the
problems
that
would
be
faced
if
they
also
got
into
a
digital
world.
If
I
just
talk
about
the
ICC
China,
their
National
Committee
they're
spending
a
lot
of
time
are
they
translated
these
uniform
roles?
They
translated
the
guidelines
and
implementation,
guys
that
we've
introduced
and
they're
working
with
all
the
banks
and
corporates
in
China
to
see
how
they
can
start
implementing
these
they've.
B
Also,
they
had
their
own
different
technology
platforms
over
there.
They
have
the
same
problems
that
the
technology
papers
around
the
world.
In
fact
they're
almost
like
digital
Islands
or
silos.
They
know
we
had
to
get
interoperable
and
work
together.
So,
yes,
China,
are
working
very
very
closely
the
rest
of
the
world
in
the
mood
for
moving
forward
on
this
and
I'm
obviously
very
pleased
to
see
that.
B
The
US
are
also
introducing
you
have
a
commercial
card,
The
Uniform,
Commercial
Code
in
the
states
that
already
from
now
I
don't
know
this
in
depth,
but
I
understand
that
certain
parts
of
the
unit,
The
Uniform
Commercial
Code,
are
being
that
improved
change
revised
to
ensure
that
electron
transferable
records
will
be
acceptable.
That
work
is
set
to
be
completed
later
this
year
or
early
next
year.
So,
yes,
the
US
is
very
very
much
in
a
game
and
in
fact,
quite
a
way
ahead
of
many
countries.
C
B
No,
no,
no
I,
don't
I'm
kind
of
not
specifically,
but
as
I
say,
they're
certainly
can
be
aware
of
what's
happening
in
the
U.S
with
a
uniform
commercial
code.
They
can
be
very
aware
of
what's
happening
in
the
UK
with
the
electronic
document.
Trade
documents,
Bill
and
Canadian
law
I
think
is
also
has
an
underlying
basis
of
English
law.
So
it
shouldn't
be
that
difficult
for
them
to
take
on
the
work
from
the
electron
trade
documents
bill
into
Canada.
A
B
This
is
a
brilliant
question.
This
is
actually
key
to
the
Future
one
of
the
problems
that
we
have
or
the
banks
have,
especially
is
it
on
boarding,
clients,
new
customers
because
and
it's
a
very
expensive
time
consuming
business
to
embold
a
new
customer,
but
if
we
could
have
some
kind
of
global
identifier,
a
legal
entity
identifier,
as
is
mentioned
there
by
Michael,
it's
going
to
make
the
work
a
lot
easier.
B
B
We
were
hoping
that
the
smes,
especially
who
do
the
bulk
of
global
trade,
would
start
adopting
legal
entity
identifiers.
The
problem
is
they've
not
been
convinced.
The
market
has
not
been
able
to
convince
smes
of
why
they
should
do
that.
They'd
be
happy
to
do
so.
They
could
see
the
benefits.
So
some
of
the
work
that's
been
done
by
various
organizations
around
the
world
at
the
moment
is
to
find
to
highlight
what
the
benefits
are
for
a
legal
entity
identifier.
B
The
fact
is
that
will
be
one
of
the
key
issues
we'll
be
moving
forward
to
ensure
that
the
smes
can
get
involved
in
digital
trade
more
easily,
because
it
will
enable
Banks
to
onboard
customers
far
more
quickly.
So
yes,
well,
a
lot
of
work
is
going
on,
but
it's
too
slow
because
the
benefits
haven't
been
explained
properly.
Yet.
D
D
B
What
I
can
say
is
that
a
few
people
did
a
lot
of
work.
Last
year
are
looking
to
see
if
the
rdt
were
compatible
with
laws
with
standards
with
developments
that
go
ongoing
all
around
the
world,
they
couldn't
find
any
Clash
anywhere.
So
as
far
as
is
known
in
my
mind
anyway,
the
compatibility
is
there.
I
can't
guarantee
that
they
looked
at
this
specific
standard.
I
can't
be
certain
okay.
A
C
B
C
B
A
B
A
D
Sorry
Tom
just
a
couple
of
questions
that
I've
been
having
in
mind
you
see
for
Dave,
Dave
and
I
would
talk
on
a
regular
basis,
all
over
LinkedIn.
We
do
participate
to
events
in
common
Dave.
Just
my
thought.
You
see
it
being
a
trade
Finance
specialist
for
a
long
time,
I
see
the
release.
Now
by
the
ICC
of
the
uniform
rules
for
digital
trade
transactions
and
I'm
guessing
see,
we
saw
the
release
of
the
EU
CP
2.0
a
while
back
in
time
and
related
URC
the
electronic
uniform
rules
for
collection.
D
B
That's
a
fair
question:
I
mean
people
say
why.
Why
are
there
already
three
sets
of
digital
roles
out
there
from
the
ICC
we've
had
to
look
at
what
they
really
are
in
the
eucp
is
primarily
for
documentary
credits
and
nothing
else.
The
EU
RC
is
primarily
for
documentary
collections,
nothing
else.
So,
there's
a
supplement.
Those
existing
paper
solutions
that
are
there,
the
urdtt
is
not
specifically
linked
to
any
products.
It's
an
overarching
framework
for
all
products.
Now,
where
will
we
go
in
the
future?
In
my
opinion,
Andrea
Nirvana,
the
future.
B
It
could
be
10
what
years
15
years
away
still
there
will
only
be
one
set
of
digital
rules.
It
won't
matter
if
it's
a
letter
of
credit,
an
open
account
financing
supply
chain
financing
in
whatever
it
can
all
be
covered
by
one
set
of
rules,
but
at
the
moment
that's
not
the
way
the
market
works,
the
Market's
not
ready
for
it.
They
want
these
individual
sets
of
rules
linked
to
their
individual
types
of
their
solution.
It's
not
ideal,
but
we
have
to
start
somewhere.
D
Oh
wonderful,
Dave,
you
anticipated
a
little.
You
see
my
next
question.
Maybe,
regarding
you
see
the
products
for
trade
Finance,
we
know
very
well
what
they
are.
You
see.
There's
credits
guarantees
it's
going
to
be
in
new
new
standards,
we're
talking
about
standards
as
well.
How
do
you
see,
as
you
see,
progress
in
time,
the
interaction
with
ISO,
20
or
22,
suppose
that
we
have
meetings
even
with
the
six
see
about
the
LPC
and
ISO
20
or
22
last
year,
it's
going
to
come.
D
B
I
mean
I
mentioned
earlier
about
the
ICC
Digital
Services
initiative.
They
are
specifically
looking
at
standards
very,
very
in-depth.
In
fact,
they
have
a
standards
toolkit
already
out
in
the
market,
which
you
can
also
download
free
of
charge
from
your
ICC
website
and
they've
identified,
something
like
a
hundred
different
standards
because
we're
using
trade
Finance.
So
the
idea
is
to
make
sure
that
all
of
these
are
interoperable,
make
sure
they
can
work
together.
So
this
is
ongoing
work
Andrea,
but
it's
not
been
forgotten
at
all.
It's
very
very
highly
agenda.
B
The
thing
we
have
to
do.
We
all
know
this
because
it's
been
said
now
for
three
four
five
years:
we're
in
a
world
of
digital
Islands,
because
there
are
so
many
digital
Solutions
out
there,
but
so
many
of
them
don't
talk
to
each
other.
They
don't
interoperate,
but
that's
okay,
for
if
we
talk
to
a
corporate
a
multinational,
they
don't
mind
on
boarding
lots
of
different
solutions.
They
do
that
already,
but
you
can't
expect
an
SME
to
do
that
they
have
to
if
they
are.
B
If
they
take
on
one
one
solution,
they
have
to
ensure
that
solution
can
talk
to
their
client
solution.
So
this
is
where
the
standard
side
of
it
comes
in.
If
we
don't
have
standards,
they
can't
talk
to
each
other,
so
bottom
line.
Yes,
Andrea.
That's
been
looked
at
very
very
carefully
and
by
the
way,
not
just
by
the
ICC
and
by
and
by
the
UN.
It's
also
been
looked
at
governmental
levels
and
Regional
levels
as
well.
D
I
subscribe
to
your
words
100
day,
and
this
is
awesome,
I
guess
there
should
be.
Maybe
two
manages
to
allowance:
they
should
start
talking
to
each
other
yeah
open
way.
Otherwise,
we'll
come
to
know
where
so
I
think
we
can
go
ahead.
I
have
another
question
with
a
leader
for
last
David,
just
maybe
for
the
closure.
Let's
go
ahead,
maybe
Tom
with
the
the
questions
on
the
on
the
chat.
A
B
A
B
At
this
stage,
there
is
no
list
of
the
different
types
of
platforms
that
can
work
with
the
urdtc.
However,
this
the
ICC
commercialization
group
I've
spoken
about
earlier,
are
already
talking
to
a
number
of
platform
and
Technology
providers
about
perhaps
endorsing
their
solutions
by
making
them
urdtt
compliance.
Now,
that
would
be
a
very
good
idea,
because
then
we
would
have
a
list.
However,
it's
very
early
days
on
this
one,
the
time
so
that
works
not
yet
been
completed,
but
I
expect
something
by
the
end
of
the
year.
So.
A
B
A
B
A
C
B
C
B
I
I,
don't
know,
I
mean
the
commercialization
group
which,
by
the
way,
is
headed
up
by
Merlin
daus,
though
you
may
know
from
JP
Morgan
in
the
US,
but
it's
one
of
the
things
they're
looking
at
I'm
helping
them
out
with
this,
but
they
told
me
it's
one
of
their
priorities.
I'm
with
you,
John
it'll
be
a
great
idea.
B
Well,
not
for
me
to
answer
probably
better
for
you
guys
to
answer
that
I
mean
the
rules,
as
I've
said,
are
technology
and
platform
agnostic?
We
don't
endorse
any
particular
technology.
We
just
know
the
blockchain
or
DLC
is
one
of
the
key
enablers
for
us
to
move
forward,
so
it
can
be
used.
It's
not
for
me
to
tell
you
how
to
do
it.
B
B
B
A
B
Question
that
is
something
sorry
that
needs
to
be
looked
at
more
closely.
If
you
downloaded
the
implementation
guide,
I
mentioned
for
your
DCTC
from
the
ICC
website.
It
will
give
you
some
some
examples
of
case
studies
for
supply
chain
Finance
or
what
I
would
like
I
think
that's
a
terrific
question
by
the
way
and
I'm
going
to
pass
it
on
to
the
commercialization
group.
C
A
D
B
Baby,
how
I
had
a
fatal
flaw
in
that
it
was
based
on
banks
being
a
central
universe.
That's
not
the
case
of
a
trade
transactions,
the
Central
University,
that's
what
urdgt
is
based
upon
my
CC
and
the
people
that
adopt
the
roles
Are
banks,
so
the
banks
like
to
see
themselves
in
the
middle
I
used
to
work
for
a
bank
I'm
very,
but
the
fact
is,
the
BPO
was
too
Bank
Centric.
Furthermore,
I
don't
think
the
marketing
was
done
properly.
The
benefits
were
not
explained
to
the
market.
B
Regulatory
authorities
didn't
understand
the
BPO
didn't
understand
where
it
fitted
lots
of
work
wasn't
done
properly,
but
the
great
thing
is
we
were
able
to
leverage
upon
that.
We
looked
at
the
mistakes
that
the
UR
BPO
made
to
make
sure
the
urdtt
hasn't
made
the
same
mistakes.
So
we
now
had
a
set
of
rules,
a
buyer
seller-centric,
which
is
where
the
trade
originates.
It
also
identifies
that
not
only
banks
could
be
Financial
Services
providers,
we
have
fintechs
Etc,
we
have
corporates.
Even
that
can
do
that
sort
of
thing.
B
A
B
I'll
tell
you
what
it's
a
great
question
now.
This
is
always
if
we'll
go
back
to
your
BPR
with
this
one.
That
was
a
problem
with
Ur
BPO.
As
I
said,
I
used
to
work
for
bank
I
was
at
Deutsche
Bank
for
many
many
years.
I
was
all
over
the
world
with
them,
and
one
of
the
big
problems
we
faced
in
banking
was
budget.
At
the
end
of
the
year.
Your
government
projects
we've
got
your
money,
you're
all
fighting
for
for
money
to
do
your
business
together
and
basically,
obviously,
for
the
sake
of
stakeholders.
B
Most
banks
remember
the
short
term.
Initiatives
have
brought
in
money
very
quickly.
Digitalization
takes
a
lot
longer,
so,
unfortunately,
lots
of
our
stuff.
We
didn't
get
the
money
for
it.
We
didn't
go,
didn't
go
forward.
Your
BPO
was
one
of
them.
The
change
we've
got
now
is
just
not
the
banks
pushing
the
urdt,
it's
going
to
be
the
buyers.
The
sellers
and
the
fincept
providers
are
pushing
the
UI
vtt.
There's
going
to
be
a
platform.
Providers
are
pushing
a
UI
BTC.
B
The
buyers
and
sellers
in
particular
big
guys,
are
going
to
end
up
forcing
the
banks
to
go
forward
now
to
be
fair.
Many
many
banks
are
already
involved
in
this.
Another
commercialization
group
there'll
be
as
a
dozen
banks
on
there
that
you
will
all
recognize
that
working
very,
very
hard
to
get
this
forward.
B
So
when
A
bank's
going
to
adopt
it,
they're
going
to
adopt
it
as
long
as
soon
as
their
buyers
and
sellers
want
to
move
forward
with
the
rules
and
the
likes
of
console
were
Marco
Polo
et
cetera,
so
I
said,
I
wouldn't
mention
names
forget
those
names.
Some
platform
providers
are
already
talking
to
Corpus
and
talking
to
Banks
about
moving
transactions
forward.
B
So
when
our
bank
is
going
to
adopt
the
rules,
a
number
of
banks
already
have
adopted
the
rules,
but
we
still
need
to
get
some
Market
traction
here
so
to
get
this
forward
and
I
think
it
won't
happen.
Just
before
was
alone.
This
is
where
we
need
the
technology
providers.
We
need
the
legal
Regulators
to
move
forward.
We
need
governments
to
move
forward
with
us
to
make
people
be
aware.
They
can
use
these
rules
safely
and
beneficially
cool
cool.
A
C
A
B
B
and
he's
told
me
that
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
need
to
change.
I
want
to
go
to
look
to
modernize
I,
don't
know
because
I'm
not
involved
in
that
working
group
should
the
urdtt
become
more
pervasive
as
I'm
sure
it
will
in
international
trade
than
the
inco
terms.
Group
are
going
to
have
to
look
at
it
whether
it
needs
they
need
to
change
anything
I,
don't
know,
but
modernizing
yeah
I
think
they're
going
to
have
to,
but
I'm
not
involved
in
that
particular
group.
So
I
can't
say
for
certain
at
this
stage.
A
C
A
A
B
Well,
it's
not
actually
competing
with
anything
they're,
not
standards.
These
are
rules
alone,
Standalone
rules.
The
standards
are
being
developed
separately
by
different
technology
providers
and
by
organizations
such
as
the
UN,
the
ICC
and
government.
So
there's
no
competition.
This
is
just
a
set
of
overarching
rules
that
could
apply
to
any
digital
trade
transaction.
It's
not
competing
with
anybody.
They're,
independent,
neutral
rules
that
give
benefits
to
all
parties.
C
A
D
Here,
thank
you
and
John
by
the
way,
then,
because
Dave
and
I,
as
I
said
we're
in
chat
going
to
double
this.
This
occasion
go
for
more
say
in
two
days:
Rick
now
we're
gonna
go
for
another
meeting,
not
on
this
topics.
Exactly
there's
something
related
to
this,
so
we're
going
to
bring
the
flame
digitization
more
and
more
so
you
see
on
LinkedIn
I'm,
pretty
active.
So
you
see
more
announcement
of
meetings
and
chats
like
this
one.
It's
really
important
for
the
adoption
is
this
great
great
new
Frameworks.
Well,.
B
D
It's
it's
mutual
Dave
we're
into
this
together.
It
might
seem
like
guitar.
You
can
see
that
it's
not
at
all.
So
it's
a
joint
effort.
That's
why
we
see
we.
At
the
start
of
the
year,
we
had
Thomas
Kubiak
from
ICC
delivering
a
speech
about
the
SEC
sustainability
program,
we're
into
that
being
digitization,
one
of
the
pillars
of
sustainability.
D
So
we
we're
we
bring
the
flame
of
Base,
see
with
my
colleagues
Reagan
and
Tom
and
more
and
more
in
the
future,
so
stay
tuned
on
each
side
and
see
that
to
all
Steve
glad
to
have
you
between
the
attendants
again
in
the
future.
Of
course,
John
join
us
again
and
again
for
the
future
meetings
cake
pose
by
the
way.
This
is
very
last
meeting
before
summer
kicks
in,
but
in
September
we're
gonna
go
gonna,
be
back.
B
C
B
B
C
B
B
Well,
he's
quite
I
mean
Dan.
Taylor
was
one
of
the
guys,
together
with
myself
and
Gary,
who
have
always
been
very
ProActive
at
UICC
and
pushing
the
sort
of
thing
forward
and
as
with
any
big
bureaucratic
organization,
sometimes
you
hear
barriers,
but
something
like
Dan
yeah.
He
helps
break
the
barriers
he's
retired
now
by
the
way,
but
so.
A
B
C
B
C
D
That's
why
I
didn't
turn
my
camera
on.
You
see
I'm
such
an
in
condition.
You
see
we're
in
a
drought
here
in
Italy,
so
we
it's
kind
of
crappy
in
the
moment.
So
I
didn't
want
to
spoil
you.
They
seriously
kidding.
You
see
I'm
always
in
camera.
So
no
no
worries
I
know
it's
visually
very
important.
Okay,.
C
D
A
Good
deal
well
thanks
thanks
Dave
for
joining
and
Simona
said
earlier,
thanks
to
me,
I
I,
I'm,
Andrea
and
Dave
are
the
ones
that
coordinated
it.
I
I'm
the
host
for
today,
sensor
Andrea,
was
I.
Think
incapacity
today
at
the
beginning
here
I
mean
we
all
Andrea
myself
and
Eric.
We
all
work
together
here
to
hopefully
bring
some
good
stuff
and
hopefully
add
some
value
in
the
supply
chain
and
trade
Finance
space,
and
you
know
maybe
a
future
session-
will
be
one
of
these
blockchain
implementations
of
urdtt.
A
So
with
that
Andreas
said
we're
going
to
take
a
little
break
here
in
August
when
we
all
go
off
on
vacation,
or
at
least
at
least
even
if
it's
in
your
mind,
you
get
to
go
on
vacation
here,
sometime
in
August
and
then
we'll
be
back
in
September
with
some
new
and
and
fun
things
I'm
sure
Andrea
will
be
posting
stuff
on
our
LinkedIn
site
for
our
group
and
hopefully
we'll
get
the
wiki
going.
Also
Alicia
is
going
to
help
us
with
that.
A
Thank
you
so
that
we
can
use
that
a
little
bit
more
and
if
you
haven't
heard
I'll,
remember,
there's
the
global
forum
for
the
hyperledger
for
hyperledger
in
Dublin
Ireland
in
the
early
part
of
September
and
I'm
sure,
there's
still
available
tickets
and
openings.
There
then
I've,
you
know
suspect
at
least
the
initial
look
that
I
went
through
looked
like
there
were
some
really
good
sessions,
including
ones
around
our
topics.
So
with
that
Andrea,
Eric
and
Alice,
you
want
to
share
before
we
close
out.