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Description
A virtual meetup hosted by Hyperledger Washington DC on October 20, 2021 featuring Jeff Stollman and Tom Klein from the Hyperledger Supply Chain Special Interest Group. They share their insights from the group and the state of blockchain adoption for Supply Chain applications. Topics include current industry challenges, success stories, and organizations active in applying blockchain to supply chain use cases.
The Supply Chain Special Interest Group is open to everyone and you can find out more at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/SCSIG/
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#Hyperledger #HyperledgerMeetup #Blockchain
A
A
A
A
B
Sure,
well,
here,
I'll
I'll
I'll
even
go
for
a
little
furthest.
How
come?
I
can't
flip
forward
on
my
charts.
There
we
go
here.
You
can
see
our
smiling
faces
here,
so
tom
klein,
as
daniel
said,
I
am
one
of
the
co-chairs
for
the
hyper
ledger
supply
chain.
Special
interest
group
been
involved
with
it
from
last
year.
B
Actually,
when
I
was
out
in
phoenix
the
week
before
everything
shut
down
at
the
global
forum
for
hyper
ledger
and
I've
been
very
interested
in
logistics
and
supply
chain
and
got
involved,
and
it's
been
a
very
good
group
here
and
I
decided
to
work
with
it
my
background,
I
worked
at
ibm
an
awfully
long
time,
retired
there
back
in
2017-
and
I
said
you
know
what's
next
and
I've
always
loved
systems.
You
know
true
story
here.
Back
in
college,
I
took
a
class
that
was
advertised
as
a
systems
class.
B
It
turned
out
to
be
an
assembler
language,
programming
class,
which
was
totally
different,
and
I
knew
it
at
the
time
that
it
wasn't
right,
but
with
300
students
and
being
you
know,
college
student.
I
wasn't
ready
to
challenge
the
professor
and
I
kind
of
view
blockchain,
as
kind
of
I
don't
know
if
it's
penultimate,
because
there'll
be
something
after
blockchain,
but
it's
certainly
a
great
representation
to
allow
us
to
take
from
individual
systems
and
really
talk
about
ecosystems
out
there.
I'm
also
interested
in
sustainability.
B
C
C
It
occurred
to
me
when
I
heard
about
blockchain
that
that
was
a
natural
supply
chain
was
a
natural,
and
I
actually,
my
real
introduction
to
blockchain
was
developing.
Solutions
for
supply
chain
actually
have
some
pending
patents
in
that
specifically
in
supply
chain,
as
well
as
for
some
enterprise
tools,
for
rapid
block
validation
and
for
migration
of
blockchains
from
one
to
another.
So
you
don't
have
blockchain
lock-in.
C
And
I've
been
working
on
various
supply
chain,
related
scenarios,
designing
solutions
for
them
and
I
think,
for
the
most
part,
it's
actually
a
very
doable
doable
area.
Unlike
some
other
areas,
but
of
course
it
has
its
challenges
and,
depending
on
what
which
supply
chain
you
want
to
talk
about,
it's
can
be
easy
or
hard
and
we'll
get
into
that
as
we
go
into
some
examples.
B
Good
deal
thanks:
jeff
daniel
you,
okay,
if
we
roll
from
here,
okay
good
deal
so
as
everyone
said,
supply
chain
definitely
seems
like
a
natural
here.
There's
tons
of
interest.
There's
lots
of
work
going
on.
There's
lots
of
startups
out
there
in
the
supply
chain.
Space
and
really
supply
chain
touches
everything,
and
you
really
can
even
think
about
supply
chain.
We
think
of
it
usually
in
terms
of
physical
goods.
B
If
you,
since
we're
we're
doing
this
in
washington,
or
at
least
that's
the
origin
of
this
there's,
some
really
good
nist,
twice
white
papers
out
there
on
the
basics
of
blockchain,
one
around
identity
and
then
one
around
tokenization
that
I
found
very
helpful
and
there's
80
pages,
but
they
have
the
executive
summary
that
will
give
you
a
little
bit
of
flavor
for
maybe
some
of
the
underpinnings
of
this.
If
that's
where
you
are
starting
off
right
now,.
B
Okay,
great
thank
you
here
since
I'm
running
off
of
my
laptop
I'm
not
going
to
mess
with
things
here
jeff.
So
since
it's
a
hyper
ledger
session
here,
anti-trust
policy,
this
is
these
are
open
meetings.
Please
don't
share
any
competitive
information
since
we're
governed
by
any
trust
income,
competition
laws
here
in
the
united
states.
B
B
If
there's
something
we
can
either,
you
know
we
can
try
to
snap
to
it
if
you'd,
like
some
clarity
on
something
or
we'll
have
we'll
have
time
at
the
end,
also
to
have
a
longer
discussion,
and
even
even
before
we
started
the
recording
here
we
have
a
discussion
about
tokenization
that
will,
you
know,
maybe
maybe
goes
offline.
Maybe
we
have
time
at
the
end.
B
Okay,
we
already
talked
about
that.
So
here's,
here's,
a
nice
word
cloud
and
we're
gonna
talk
about
supply
chain.
In
the
more
general
sense,
because
a
lot
of
people
think
about
supply
chain
just
in
terms
of
logistics,
but
it
really
is
in
the
logistics-
is
part
of
it.
But
really
it's
really
starts
from
where
something
actually
comes
and
how
do
you
get
it?
And
what
is
what?
What's
that,
all
about
to
how
it
gets
there,
the
logistics
to
how
does
it
turn
into
something?
B
And
then
how
does
it
get
to
consumer
and
or
some
sort
of
end
user?
And
how
does
what's
the
feedback
a
loop
associated
with
that,
so
we're
going
to
talk
about
in
a
broader
sense,
think
about
things
like
erp's
enterprise,
resource
planning,
think
about
tms
and
his
transportation
management
system,
things
about
wms's,
warehouse
management
system
or
warehouse
execution
systems
think
about
oms's
order
management
systems
out
there.
B
Okay,
so
in
this
area,
there's
certainly
lots
of
challenges
that
that
come
along
with
this
and
translation
transformation
resilience.
But
I
get
certainly
good
when
I
get
drunk
to
talk
about
those
and
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
jeff,
and
you
know
at
the
world
right
now.
The
marketplace
is
demanding
continuing
continuing
innovation.
It's
not
like
we
can
stay
stay
the
same
resilience.
I
mean
there
always
needs
to
be
a
plan
b
in
some
way,
shape
or
form,
and
we
all
have
heard
over
the
last
couple
years.
C
B
Platform-Based
economies
are
not
all
they're
cracked
up
to
be,
and
so
blockchain
provides
an
ability
to
potentially
an
ability
to
execute
and
make
take
away
some
of
the
challenges
associated
with
platform-based
economies
or
the
resilience
issues
that
are
out
there
right
now,
although
realistically
I
think
we
could
have
if
blockchain
was
underpinning
in
all
of
the
current
supply
chain
world
and
these
ecosystems
out
there
we'd,
I
think
we'd
still
have
the
same.
So
we'd
have
similar
supply
chain
issues,
because
these
are
pretty
dramatic,
but
I
think
the
edge
would
be
off
of
them.
B
C
C
You
know
a
digital
twin
so
and
somehow
keep
those
things
completely
locked
together,
so
that
whatever
you're
representing
in
the
blockchain
actually
has
something
meaningful
outside
of
the
blockchain
in
the
real
world,
where
these
goods
are
actually
moving
back
and
forth
and
that's
can
be
easy
and
it
can
be
hard
depending
on
the
value
of
the
goods
and
the
threats
to
to
the
value.
If
there's
a
lot
of
counterfeiting
going
on,
then
you
might
you
know
it's
easy
to
stick
a
a
qr
code
label
that
gives
a
unique
identity
to
an
item.
C
If
it's,
however,
a
valuable
item,
that's
likely
to
be
counterfeited,
you've
got
to
put
in
all
kinds
of
counterfeit
protection.
Just
in
the
label
itself.
You
know
just
the
physical
label
has
to
be
tamper.
Proof
in
addition
to
the
fact
that
the
blockchain
is
tamper-proof.
So
those
are
some
of
the
types
of
issues
that
you
get
into
in
digital
identity
as
well.
There's
something
called
there's,
there's
an
aggregation
problem
and
I
don't
know
how
many
people
work
in
in
in
supply
chain
to
appreciate
it.
C
C
B
Okay,
good,
so
let's
talk
about
business
solution
patterns
a
little
bit.
What
what
we've
seen
out
there?
I
went
back-
and
I
looked
at
our
last
year
or
so
of
speakers
that
we
had
on
our
calls
for
the
hyperledger
supply
chain
sig
over
the
last
year,
just
to
kind
of
get
a
little
flavor.
For
that
also,
let
me
back
up
a
little
bit
back
at
the
beginning
of
2020
into
2019
pre-coveted.
B
I
did
some
research.
Everyone
has
their.
You
know
hey
what's
new
in
2020
type
of
thing
and
the
number
one
thing
that
came
out
in
all
of
those
was
visibility,
supply,
ch
people
in
supply
chain,
wherever
they
are
they're,
looking
for
better
visibility
in
some
way,
shape
or
form
out
there.
I
think
that
still
isn't
true.
Now
I'd
be
surprised
that
that
changes
when
the
2020
stuff
comes
out
for
2022,
it's
hard
to
say
that
2022
predictions
come
out
in
addition
to
that.
B
I've
also
seen
a
lot
over
the
last
year
or
so
a
lot
of
interest
around
sustainability,
not
a
lot
of
ideas.
Yet
on
what
exactly
to
do
around
that?
But
the
idea,
the
the
thought
is
there,
they
know
the
pressure
is
there,
and
so
now
we
have
to
figure
out
what
to
do
about
that.
On
the
right
hand,
side,
if
you
have
no
idea
where
to
start
a
good
place,
maybe
to
start,
is
a
digital
capabilities
model.
B
This
comes
from
the
association
for
supply
chain
management,
asm,
the
old
apex
folks,
and
they
have
they
have
some.
I
don't
say:
well,
let's
just
call
them
digital
capabilities.
They
have
a
previous
model,
that's
kind
of
linear
called
the
score
model,
and
then
this
is
put
on
top
of
that
model
or
complementary
to
it.
B
If
you
will
in
order
to
bring
things
along,
so
you
can
see
in
the
right
hand,
side
there
around
synchronized
planning,
for
instance,
and
then
you
see
smart
operations
and
dynamic
fulfillment
and
underneath
these
there's
a
bunch
of
level
twos
and
eventually
they
get
to
metrics,
and
I
found
it
to
be
a
good
model
to
help
and
play
in
laying
out
where
blockchain
can
provide
some
value,
because
these
are
really
capabilities
that
most
everybody
wants
within
their
world.
So
with
that,
then,
let's
come
over
to
the
left
and
the
bottom.
B
Last
week
we
had
a
team
that
was
presenting
a
a
track
and
trace
solution
and
in
their
ideas,
they're
using
off-the-shelf
types
of
sensors,
which
I
probably
myself,
I
probably
like
a
little
bit
better
than
proprietary
sensors
out
there,
and
then
we
see
things
like
invoice
reconciliation
in
in
taking
it
to
the
next
level,
from
your
traditional,
two-part
or
three-part
invoice,
reconciliation
now
actually
being
able
to
have
the
data
and
be
able
maybe
to
not
even
get
to
that
reconciliation
process.
The
coca-cola
bottlers
group.
B
They
use
it
for
inventory
control
in
order
to
manage
stuff
between
the
distributors,
your
local,
but
and
your
local
bottler
here,
and
how
do
they
get
the
syrup
from
one
place
to
the
other?
And
then
the
next
two
go
together.
Payments
and
trade
finance
the
whole
the
whole
idea
that
we're
moving
to
some
this
this
stuff
in
different
ways
and
usually
money,
is
going
to
be
involved
in
some
way
shape
or
form.
B
So
we
do
want
to
provide
some
way
to
monetize
it
and
you
could
even
think
of
trade
finance
as
in
terms
of
a
factoring
solution.
If
you
want
to
think
about
it
from
that
perspective,
if
you
or
think
about
it
factoring
like
invoice
reconciliation
but
somewhat
similar
flavor
with
trade
finance,
the
sustainability
we're
seeing
some
really
work
around
carbon
tracking,
in
fact,
there's
a
hyperledger
climate
action
group,
sig
out
there
that
you
can
participate
in
also.
So
with
that.
Let
me
go
to
the
next
one
here
and
let
jeff
talk
about
these.
C
Okay,
well,
one
of
the
one
of
the
issues
of
in
supply
chain
is
kind
of
what
your
scope
is
and
typically
there's
a
demand
for
one
for
either
upstream
or
downstream,
upstream,
meaning
where,
where
are
your
components
coming
from
making
sure,
for
example,
that
you're
buying
stuff
from
people
who
have
you
know
fair
trade
practices,
proper
labor
practices,
proper
environmental
controls
or
you
might
be
some
you
know,
and
then
that's
that's
pretty
typical
in
in
a
lot
of
consumer
goods.
Another
issue
with
your
downstream
control
to
avoid
counterfeits.
C
So
you
have
you
know.
Handbags
are
one
of
the
largest
counterfeit
markets
in
the
world
today
and
if
you're
able
to
track
your
handbags
and
with
a
little
bit
better
control-
and
you
can
give
them
some
form
of-
I-
you
know
unique
identifier-
you
can
then
make
sure
that
your
retailers
are
getting
legitimate
products
and
that
the
consumer
can
ultimately
validate
that.
Yes,
this
is
a
really
a
coach
handbag
or
really,
you
know
all
the
other
companies
that
make
handbags.
But
it's
it's
not.
You
know.
Handbags
is
just
one
example.
C
Tom
already
mentioned
how
transparency
in
supply
chains
is
a
big
deal,
and
everyone
wants
transparency,
but
no
one
wants
to
expose
a
lot
of
their
own
data.
They,
a
distributor,
might
not
want
to
show
the
manufacturer
who
his
customers
are
for
fear
that
at
some
point,
he'll
be
disintermediated
and
won't.
It
won't
be
in
business
any
longer,
so
they
don't
want
to
put
some
of
that
data
on
the
chain
and
show
who
they're
selling
to
sometimes
people
don't
want
to
show.
You
know
where
they're
getting
the
goods
to
their
retailers.
C
C
I
mean
pseudonymity
is
a
very
big
deal
and
you
know
cryptocurrencies
people
really
like
the
fact
that
no
one
knows
you
know
how
much
you've
invested
in
a
particular
coin
or
something
like
that.
But
in
a
lot
of
business
transactions,
there's
no
need
for
pseudonymity
in
the
in
the
pharmaceutical
industry,
a
manufacturer
can
only
sell
to
authorized
distributors
and
distributors
can
only
sell
to
authorized
dispensers,
and
so
everybody
has
to
be
known.
C
C
If,
let's
say
you
went
to
a
ethereum
blockchain
and
put
put
your
supply
chain
on
the
ethereum
blockchain
and
then
ethereum
gets
very
you
know
the
gas
fees
just
get
exorbitant
more
than
you
anticipated,
and
you
don't
want
to
be
there
anymore
or
somebody
makes
a
change
to
the
ethereum
blockchain,
where
the
majority
of
people
think
it's
a
great
change,
but
for
your
particular
industry,
it's
not
a
very
good
idea,
so
you
might
want
a
private
blockchain.
The
problem
with
a
private
blockchain,
of
course,
is
you
have
to
set
up
your
own
infrastructure.
C
It
may
be
limited
because
why
the
supply
chains
will
tend
to
grow
once
they're
in
place
and
working
you'll
want
to
add
more
products.
It's
like
right
now,
walmart
has
has
a
leafy
greens
blockchain,
but
as
that
becomes
more
successful,
they'll
want
to
start
adding
more
and
more
products
to
it
and
which
also
involves
more
and
more
vendors,
the
suppliers
for
them,
and
it
becomes
sometimes
complicated
to
add
more
people
in
a
private
blockchain.
They
may
not
agree
with
the
rules.
C
Well,
blockchain
is
a
very
good
solution
to
be
able
to
resolve
that
problem,
and
the
government
is
a
sufficiently
large
buyer
that
if
they,
if
somebody
created
a
blockchain
and
the
government,
wanted
to
use
it,
they
could
dictate
to
their
suppliers.
You
must
use
it
and
that
kind
of
solves
some
of
the
issues
of
participation.
C
A
lot
of
goods
purchased
by
the
defense
and
intelligence
communities.
They're
very
concerned
with
where
things
are
made.
I
have
a
a
lenovo
laptop
and
one
of
my
clients
was
a
defense
contractor
and
I
wasn't
allowed
to
bring
that
into
their
data
center
because
it
was
made
in
china,
and
there
was
a
concern
about
that.
I
think
they
were
right.
C
It
was
annoying
to
me,
but
it
was,
I
think
they
made
the
right
choice
and
cmmc
is
something
that's
gonna,
where
you
basically
know
the
providence
of
all
the
components
and
all
the
all
the
products
that
you
use
so
that
you
avoid
that
type
of
problem
central
bank
distributed
currencies.
Cbdc's
are
getting
a
lot
of
talk
right
now.
El
salvador
is
now
using
bitcoin,
that's
not
their
own
currency,
but
a
lot
of
countries
are
talking
about
china
in
particular
about
issuing
their
own
cryptocurrencies.
C
There's
a
lot
of
research
there's
not
much
in
the
way
of
policies
on
that,
yet
commercial
aircraft
integrity.
All
the
faa
requires
that
all
parts
that
go
into
airplanes,
both
new
and
replacement
parts,
have
a
verified
provenance
and
that's
an
excellent
opportunity
for
a
blockchain
solution
and
the
commercial
counterfeit
drug
problem,
which
is
hundreds
of
billions
of
dollars
a
year
in
counterfeit
drugs
throughout
the
world.
B
B
Jeff
talked
a
little
bit
about
leafy
greens
earlier
on
here.
It's
really
driven
by
consumer
demand
and
regulatory
systems
and
there's
a
from
the
federal
government
fda
new
era
of
food
safety.
You
gotta
look
at
that.
A
lot
of
that
is
driven
by
some
of
the
work
that
was
originally
done
at
walmart,
with
food
trust,
blockchain
and
leafy
greens.
B
Now,
taking
that
and
expanding
into
a
broader
sense
there,
pharmaceuticals,
like
jeff,
just
mentioned
the
eu,
also
has
a
similar
act,
called
the
fair
medicines
directive
fmd
to
do
something
very
similar
there
luxury
they
want
us
because
of
consumer
demand
and
they
want
to
differentiate.
They
get
a
they're
getting
into
provenance.
We're
talking
about
the
high
value
parts
that
you
talked
about
in
finance,
so
that
gives
you
a
little
flavor
for
some
of
the
places.
B
B
It's
an
interesting
one,
because
it
establishes
the
credentials
of
the
trust,
that's
inherent
within
blockchain
blockchain
and
in
their
case
they
have
these
designs
that
they
want
to
trademark
copyright,
authenticate
in
some
way
shape
or
form
so,
and
they
do
it
in
a
manual
fashion,
call
it
a
lawyer
and
where
it
is
also
to
work,
etc,
etc
and
set.
It
costs
a
lot
of
money
and
takes
a
lot
of
time.
The
other
challenge
they
had
is
that
it
wasn't
just
folks
within
the
houses,
the
maisons
within
richmond
that
were
only
working
on
their
own.
B
So
previously
you'd
have
some
super
designer
and
maybe
a
couple
others
that
were
all
within
the
same
group
and
they
did
their
work
and
you
kind
of
knew
where
it
came
from
well
now,
if
you're
having
a
collaboration,
for
instance
between
one
of
the
maisons
and
nike,
so
the
intellectual
property,
that's
associated
with
that.
How
does
that
actually
get
parsed
out
with
this?
How
do
we
authenticate
that
etc,
etc?
So,
in
their
case
this
this
was
driven
out
of
their
legal
department,
they're
a
corporate
council
and
what
that
team
did
is
they
said.
B
Okay,
we
want
to
find
a
more
automated
way
to
authenticate
these
designs.
That's
going
to
reduce
the
cost,
give
us
the
ability
to
work
with
them
amongst
multiple
organizations
here
and
shorten
the
time
for
this,
and
so
basically,
now,
instead
of
a
a
chop,
is
what
it's
called.
I
never
knew
this
term.
The
shop
is
like
the
standard,
the
stamp
that
the
the
designer
would
put
on
previously
now
and
then
it
would
you
take
that
chop
and
then
you
put
it
into
this
big
old
process.
Now
what
they
can
do
is
through
a
system.
B
So
this
is
interesting.
This
is
walmart,
canada,
not
walmart
united
states.
This
is
one
of
one
of
the
hyper
ledger
partners,
dlt
labs
up
in
toronto,
work
with
walmart,
canada
and
their
their
problem
was
that
they
had
300
carriers
that
were
moving
information
between
or
not,
information
moving,
goods
between
distribution,
centers
and
stores.
Not
all
everything,
not
everything
was
a
captive
walmart
driver.
So
these
300
carriers
are
moving
stuff
between
all
of
these
distribution,
centers
and
stores.
B
But
70
of
those
shipments
ended
up
in
some
sort
of
dispute.
That's
a
problem.
If
you
have
70
70
of
something
like
that,
probably
is
not
a
good
is
not
something
you
want
to
continue.
The
idea,
then,
is
well.
Maybe
there's
a
way
to
establish
a
better
set
of
data
here,
so
I
can
reduce
those
disputes.
So
in
their
case
they
use
hyperledger
fabric
with
some
dlt
editions.
Here
they
have
170
data
points
on
the
shipment
that
they're
tracking
and
those
data
points.
Here.
Here's
the
I
mentioned
sensors
earlier.
B
They
already
had
the
sensors
in
place
to
collect
those
170
data
points.
So
if
you're
starting
out
from
scratch-
and
you
have
no
sensor
based
data-
you
could
still
start
off
just
don't
don't
expect
that
you're
going
to
ramp
up
into
those
170
data
points
with
the
sensors
of
the
appropriate
sensors
right
off
the
bat
here.
So
these
disputes
in
general
were
happening
because
of
accessorial
charges.
I
had
a
weight.
I
showed
up
late,
those
kind
of
things,
gas
costs
more.
I
mean
in
the
sense
of
my
gas
surcharge.
I
don't
agree
with
that.
B
So
all
of
those
kind
of
ideas
can't
or
all
those
kind
of
problems
were
causing
these
disputes
and
it
was
making
the
carriers
upset
here
and
so
the
solution
either
created
hey
if
you're
sophisticated.
You
can
interface
with
the
cdi.
Otherwise,
we'll
give
you
a
sim
or
an
api,
sorry
or
if
you're,
unsophisticated,
simple,
you
don't
have
big
systems
or
a
lot
of
help.
Here's
an
app
that
allows
you
to
basically
pre-populate
the
invoice
so
that
I
can
take
these
11
steps
where
I
was
negotia
negotiating
back
and
forth.
B
In
order
to
create
an
invoice,
I
can
reduce
those
down
to
five
and
you
saw
in
their
case
the
disputes
were
reduced
less
than
five
percent
and
I
think
now
they're
down
to
somewhere
around
three
percent
or
so
okay.
So,
lest
you
think
that
blockchain
and
supply
chain
is
only
for
big
companies
out
there,
this
company
chemcore
is
a
25
million
dollar
in
revenue.
Company
based
out
of
singapore
and
their
problem
was
they're.
B
Shipping
mining
chemicals
from
the
far
east
to
mines
and
like
most
of
theirs,
were
in
the
democratic
republic
of
congo
so
and
it
turns
out
there
aren't
any
ports
that
could
load.
So
if
the
mining
chemicals
have
to
go
through
a
number
of
countries
in
order
to
get
to
the
mines,
so
they
had
a
problem
with
getting
there
on
time
and
in
full
those
orders.
B
They
couldn't
track
things
and
they
had
lots
of
people
who
were
holding
things
up
along
the
way,
and
so
they
partnered
with
this
company
competec
to
utilize
hyper
ledger
and
build
a
little
blockchain
site
based
solution
for
tracking
tracing
these,
as
well
as
providing
some
credentialing.
So
that,
as
as
this
as
the
materials
are
going
through
the
different
system,
the
different
systems,
the
different
checkpoints,
they
have,
the
visibility
associated
with
where
that
stuff
is
as
well
as
it
makes
it
easier.
For.
I
mentioned
trade
finance
earlier.
B
Lastly,
this
is
just
a
combination
of
different
one
case:
conflict,
minerals,
cobalt,
specifically
with
volvo
using
hyper
ledger
fabric
here
and
then
caring
in
the
sense
of
a
luxury
good,
as
was
talked
about
previously
in
tracking
and
tracing
and
the
walmart
story
associated
with
with
food
trust
and
leafy
green
vegetables,
etc.
So
I
am
able
to
recall
information
or
have
recall
information
at
the
tip
of
my
hands
as
opposed
to
having
to
dig
it
up
and
getting
it
days
or
weeks
later.
Here.
B
A
C
C
C
I
already
mentioned
that
all
the
people,
all
the
players
in
this
supply
chain-
have
to
be
certified
by
their
states,
not
by
the
federal
government
by
their
states.
So
if
you
you're
a
walgreens,
you
have
to
be
certified
in
every
state
in
which
you
have
a
walgreens
drugstore,
and
each
of
your
facilities
has
to
be
certified.
C
The
manufacturing
sites
have
to
be
sort
of
have
to
be
registered,
so
you
can
only
sell
two
parties
who
are
you
know,
state
approved,
but
one
of
the
issues,
and
then
we
have
the
issue
of
aggregation
is
a
big
problem.
This
law
actually
requires
track
and
trace
only
of
the
ownership,
not
the
custody
and
the
distinction.
There
is
that
a
lot
of
counterfeiting
actually
happens
while
goods
are
in
transit.
C
It
turns
out
that,
while
hundreds
of
billions
of
dollars
of
counterfeit
drugs
are
sold
in
the
world,
very
little
of
that
actually
occurs
in
the
u.s,
and
this
system
won't
actually
prevent
the
biggest
problem,
which
is
people
buying
from
online
pharmacies
who
aren't
part
of
this.
You
know
they.
They
often
claim
to
be
from
canada,
but
who
knows
where
they
are
from?
They
could
be
from
you
know,
usually
from
somewhere
in
eastern
europe
that
doesn't
have
laws
that
allow
that
that
criminalize
fraud.
C
Because
there's
this
law
requiring
it
the
industry,
is
you
know
it's
a
very
it's.
The
one
of
the
largest
industries
in
the
world
is
is
going.
You
know
headlong
into
developing
a
solution,
and
so
it's
one
of
the
one
of
the
areas
where
there
will
be
not
just
a
pilot
but
a
real
solution
soon.
I
don't
know
that
they'll
meet
the
2023
deadline,
but
it
will
be
a
very
good
example
of
a
complete
downstream
from
the
manufacturer
supply
chain
solution.
D
C
Digital
identity
is,
as
I
kind
of
mentioned
earlier,
is,
is
a
big
issue
with
the
supply
chain,
because
it's
a
matter
of
you
can
assign
an
identity
to
you,
have
to
assign
a
unique
identity
to
every
item
in
the
supply
chain,
and
that
assigned
identity
has
to
be
verifiable
and
it
has
to
be
at
least
tamper
resistant.
Depending
on
on
the
industry,
you
have,
I
was
working
on
a
solution
for
a
company
in
china
that
sells
rice
wine.
C
C
So
the
digital
identity
problem
is
is
can
be
non-trivial
depending
on
you
know
what
the
goods
are
in
other
cases.
However,
it's
the
sierra
nevada
brewers,
who
make
beer
etch
a
qr
code
onto
their
kegs
to
keep
track
of
their
kegs.
They're,
not
so
worried
about
counterfeit
beer,
they're
just
worried
about
losing
their
kegs.
C
Another
issue
is
the
proliferation
of
blockchains.
I
mean,
if
you
can
imagine
all
these
kind
of
point,
solutions
that
are
being
created.
Some
companies
are
going
to
be
faced
with
you.
Take
a
department
store
such
as
walmart.
Well,
that
maybe
they'll
have
the
the
produce
blockchain
they
may
have
the
handbag
blockchain.
C
You
know
there
may
be
dozens
and
dozens
of
blockchains
that
they
have
to
interact
with
each
of
which
may
have
different
rules
for
how
the
products
are
treated.
How
they're,
how
they're
identified
in
a
you
know
what
is
it
just
a
smart
phone
scanner
that
you
can
scan
anything
with
is?
Are
there
unique,
you
know
special
scanners?
Do
some
of
these
systems
have
encryption?
C
You
also,
then,
have
the
upstream
problem,
as
I
mentioned
in
the
in
the
drug
example
right
now.
The
dscsa
is
only
a
downstream
issue.
If,
somewhere
along
the
line,
manufacturers
are
concerned
about
the
provenance
and
the
authenticity
of
their
upstream
component
products,
the
chemicals
that
they
use,
they're
going
to
have
to
have
upstream
blockchains,
and
eventually
that
could
be
problematic,
especially
when
each
if
you
have
a
bunch
of
private
blockchains,
all
with
unique
rules
that
are
not
consistent.
C
C
Tom
mentioned
the
one
example
where
they're
actually
using
bitcoin
as
a
blockchain
and
that's
a
pretty
slow
blockchain
to
use.
If
you
have
a
high
throughput,
it
doesn't
scale
very
well.
So
these
are
issues
that
will
come
about
and
some
people
are
concerned
about
getting
started
because
they're
worried
about
lock-in.
C
C
C
But
some
of
the
dispensers
are
small.
Non-Pop
pharmacies,
one-offs
they're,
not
all
walgreens
and
cvs,
and
their
requirements
are
different
and
it's
very
hard
to
come
up
with
requirements
that
are
not
only
fair
to
everybody.
You
know
if
you're
charged,
if
you're
charging
a
fee
per
transaction,
the
people
who
are
doing
lots
of
transactions
consider
that
onerous.
But
if
you
charge
a
flat
rate,
then
the
people
who
are
just
doing
one
or
two
transactions
will
find
it
onerous.
So
you
have
these
conflicting
goals
and
as
blockchains
improve
or
blockchain
improvement,
proposals
arise.
C
B
Okay,
let
me
just
add
a
couple
things
here:
around
governance,
I'm
pretty
firm
on
the
grounds
that
governance
of
blockchains
will
involve
humans.
Hopefully
that's
not
terribly
controversial,
but
some
people-
these
things-
can
be
set
up
and
run
your,
but
there's
always
some
sort
of
founding
groups.
That's
going
to
be
making
some
decisions,
so
there's
always
going
to
be
humans
in
the
loop
associated
with
this.
B
So
you
can
kind
of
think
about
different
categories
of
users,
whether
they
be
founders,
whether
they
be
observers,
whether
they
be
suppliers,
so
there's
different
categories
of
users
that
come
into
the
governance
of
the
blockchain
system
and
the
other
heuristic.
I
guess
for
right
now
is
in
general,
we're
not
going
to
start
off
with
kind
of
like
170
sensors,
we're
not
going
to
start
off
with
a
huge
democratized
system.
B
Most
of
the
governance
blockchains
getting
going
is
around
is
having
some
small
group
that
forms
it
with
plans
to
make
it
into
something
broader
out
there
for
the
objects
of
governance.
What
are
they
going
to
be
the
mechanics
of
governance
that
jeff
was
talking
about
and
then
what
are
the
incentives
associated
with
the
governance?
So
you
stay
stay
with
with
that
that
the
program
there
and
there's
a
life
cycle
associated
with
that.
B
So
let's
go
on
to
the
next
chart
here,
because
I'm
seeing
that
we're
got
six
minutes
left
just
here's
some
groups
that
are
doing
work
within
this
space
out
there.
Some
of
you
may
know
some
of
you
may
not
know,
let's
say
specifically
with
hyper
ledger
here.
We
have
our
calls
every
thurs
every
other
thursday.
Our
next
one
is
the
next
week
the
28th
we're
going
to
have
daniella
barbosa
the
new
leader
for
hyper
ledger
overall
who's
going
to
be
on
for
the
first
15
minutes
and
then
we're
going
to
talk.
B
Gonna
have
a
discussion
about.
What's
the
what's
a
good
try,
how
do
you
set
up
a
good
trial
of
using
blockchain
and
supply
chain
and
then
specifically
the
hyperledger
grid?
Folks,
they
actually
comes
out
some
work
with
cargo
and
target
they're,
actually
building
a
platform
if
you
will
or
a
framework
that
can
be
used
specifically
in
hyperledger,
and
they
just
had
their
their
o2
0.2
release.
That
is
focused
really
on
kind
of
a
master
data
management,
product
information
master.
B
That
kind
of
information
out
there
as
an
underpinning
with
that,
so
it
gives
you
a
little
flavor
and
jeff
and
I
are
happy
to
talk
without
any
of
these
offline
going
forward.
So
thank
you
for
joining
us
today.
Here
we'll
do
some
questions
daniel.
Hopefully
some
of
this
stuff
inspires
you
in
some
way,
shape
or
form.
A
A
E
E
E
If
you
go
by
the
the
shoot,
his
name
just
the
vilsack,
the
guy
heading,
it
look
at
what
happened
in
jensen,
farms
here
in
colorado.
It's
a
study
that
we've
actually
based
colorado.
The
colorado
department
ag
has
done
a
lot
about
when
jensen
farms
happened
about
10
12
years
ago,
and
it
took
10
to
12
days
to
get
root.
Cause
analysis,
I.e
need
for
blockchain.
B
E
C
You
can
bring
up
a
very
good
point
and
there
was
a
great
example
of
that
ibm
and
maersk,
which
is
the
largest
shipper
in
the
world
by
ship
yeah,
exactly
created,
created
a
blockchain
and
they
had
great
difficulty
getting
anybody
to
join
any
other
major
shipping
lines
to
join,
because
in
the
original
governance
structure
it
appeared
that
they
had
control
of
all
the
data
and
people
didn't
want
to
be.
You
know
just
little
servants
to
them,
and
so
there
was
a
lot
of
readjustment
in
order
to
start
bringing
on
other
trading
partners.
C
I
mean
a
supply
chain
is
only
as
good
as
how
much
of
the
network
it
represents
and
they
were
getting
no
traction,
and
so
it
took
them
a
couple
years
to
get
get
their
act
together
to
where
they
were
able
to
start
bringing
on
other
other
parties,
and
they
had
to
start
making
the
data.
You
know
more
data
ownership,
more
widely
dispersed.
E
C
C
They
said
as
of
such
and
such
a
date,
if
you
want
to
sell
products
to
walmart-
and
this
was
before
blockchain
was
an
issue
you
know
you
have
to
put
on
a
you-
have
to
put
a
code
on
your
on
your
product
to
label
it,
so
we
can
scan
it
at
the
register,
and
so
people
did
it
and
like
for
the
us
government,
you
know
going
forward
since
they're
one
of
the
biggest
buyers
in
the
world.
They
can
start
imposing
their
own.
C
B
Let
me
add
a
couple
quick,
quick
thoughts
to
that,
and
I
put
my
email,
my
gmail
email
in
the
the
chat
there
anybody's
welcome
to
contact
me
and
then
I
can
get
jeff
daniel.
You
have
our
email
too,
because
we're
not
going
to
get
to
everything
but
real
fast.
I
I
am
not
a
purist,
I'm
more
pragmatist
on
these
kind
of
things
and
from
a
governance
perspective
and
then
actually
into
implementation.
B
There's
going
to
be
times
where
you're
going
to
do
a
the
use
case
is
going
to
say
you're
going
to
need
to
have
distributed
nodes
across
different
places
and
other
times
you're
going
to
have
it
somewhat
centralized
with
plans
and
kind
of
see.
Well
what
goes
on
what
I've
generally
seen
is
more
from
a
ui
or
ux
perspective
is
kind
of
what
was
done
with
the
walmart
canada
story,
where
you're
going
to
give
somebody
an
api
if
they
don't
have
their
own
it
shop
right,
there's
for
a
small
it
shop,
they're,
not
very
sophisticated
others.
B
You
can
give
an
api
to
and
that's
how
they
want
to
integrate,
and
some
will
just
want
to
do
edi
augmentation
in
some
way
shape
or
form.
So
you
kind
of
give
those
on-ramps
to
folks
to
the
blockchain
and
then
figure
out.
How
can
you
how
how
you
can
bring
them
in
closer
over
time
with
additional
capability.
A
C
It.
It
shows
that
that
you
know
a
particular
number
is
a
case
number
that
case
has
12
packages
that
each
have
50
pills
in
them
and
and
so
that
data
could
be
maintained
off
the
chain,
but
it
needs
to
be
ultimate
because
it's
any
anything
that
has
that
code.
It's
going
to
use
that
it's
going
to
have
that
same
description.
So
you
don't
need
all
that
description
in
there.
You
just
need
the
code
in
other
situations.
C
You
may
have
things
that
have
different
grades.
You
may
have
bolts
and
is
this
a
grade
two
bolt
a
grade.
5
bolt
a
grade,
12
bolt,
and
so
you
not
only
is
it
a
5
16
18
thread
8
inch
carriage
bolt,
but
it's
a
grade
2
or
it's
a
it's.
A
zinc
coated
versus
a
galvanized,
and
so
the
kind
of
descriptive
requirements
are
going
to
vary
depending
on
what
the
product
is,
that
you're,
that
you're
handling
and
what's
what's
critical,
to
be
able
to
identify
it?
A
Ray
thank
you.
Thank
you
jeff.
I
think
that's
that
answers
the
question
someone
asked
about
whether
this
recording
will
be
available
on
youtube.
Yes,
it
will
be.
You
can
simply
search
for
the
word
of
this
presentation
or
we
can
also
send
out
a
link
after
the
presentation
once
the
recording
has
been
completed.
A
C
C
Obviously,
throughput
is
going
to
be
a
relatively
important
characteristic
in
selecting
your
blockchain
and
some
blockchains
come
with
a
particular
consensus.
Algorithm
I
mean
if
you're
in
some,
you
have
the
ability
to
create
your
own
consensus
algorithm,
but
there's
no
there's
nothing
about
a
supply
chain
solution
that
dictates
a
particular
consensus.
Algorithm
be
used,
so
you
could
use
proof
of
work.
If
you
could
tolerate
that
speed
problem,
you
could
do
proof
of
stake.
Distributive
proof
of
stake.
C
A
D
A
D
Please
yeah
go
ahead.
I
have
one
jason
john
here
I
curious
about
the
off-chain
records.
What
are
some
of
the
document?
Archiving
implementations
that
that
you've
seen
out
there
right
because
we're
we're
talking
about
provenance
and
custody
and
all
of
that
so
there's
a
lot
of
documents
and
records,
and
you
know
diagrams
and
when
you
talk
about
faa
parts
and
records
and
all
that,
what
are
some
of
the
record-keeping
implementation
infrastructure
you've
seen
out
there
that
that's
being
deployed.
B
Let
me
take
a
first
crack
and
then
give
jeff
a
thought
in
general
you're
talking
about
how
do
I
get
stuff
from
wherever
it
is
all
the
great
existing
systems
and
interact
this
in
some
way
shape
or
form
with,
is
my
as
my
read
on
what
you're
saying,
with
some
sort
of
credibility
and
veracity
there
and,
interestingly
enough,
the
iso
definition
for
an
oracle,
and
I
think
of
oracle
is
the
mechanism
that
blockchains
use
to
get
off
chain
data
on
chain.
The
iso
definition
just
says:
basically
it's
a
pipe
now.
B
I
have
a
problem
with
that,
because
I
believe
that
oracle
should
also
put
some
veracity
into
it,
but
it'll
be
that
as
it
may,
and
I
think
most
people
would
expect
that
now,
in
terms
of
what's
out
there,
I
got
to
do
some
more
there's.
Another
hyperledger
project
called
cactus
in
terms
of
interoperability.
So
one
of
my
to-do's
here
I
think
I
actually
have
a
call.
I
have
an
hour
blocked
on
my
calendar,
whether
I'll
get
there
or
not.
We
all
know
how
that
works.
B
To
look
more
at
hyperledger
cactus
is
an
herb
opability
mechanism
and
the
other
one
that
I've
been
seeing.
A
lot
is
a
baseline
protocol,
which
is
more
of
it
comes
more
out
of
the
ethereum
world.
But
what
looks
interesting
with
that
is
that
you
can
set
up
some
of
the
standardization
between
your
two
different,
two
or
broader
set
of
groups
here
in
order
to
take,
for
instance,
sap
data
into
whatever
blockchain
system
you
have
out
there.
So
look
a
baseline
protocol,
that's
the
other
one
that
would
come
along
jeff
I'll.
C
So
they
don't
want
to
have
a
completely
transparent
system
where
the
manufacturers
can
see
downstream,
even
though
the
manufacturers,
when
they
have
a
recall,
they
need
to
reach
those
people
downstream,
and
so
the
data
that
the
the
data
that
the
distributors
have
they're
in
a
solution
they're
proposing
is,
they
would
maintain
that
data
themselves
and
if
the
manufacturers
want
to
see
downstream,
they
have
to
go
through
the
wholesaler,
the
distributors
and
it's
just
because
they
have
so
much
power
they're
implementing
that,
and
so
that
data
is
off
chain.
That's
not
on
the
chain.
C
No,
it's
just
in
there,
it's
just
in
their
erp
system,
you
know,
but
they
don't
they
don't
make
it.
They
don't
bring
it
to
the
blockchain.
I
mean
ultimately,
in
most
of
these
supply
chain
systems
have
will
interface
with
with
an
erp
system
and
in
fact,
the
the
solution
in
the
pharmaceutical
industry
proposed
by
the
wholesalers
they've
teamed
up
with
sap,
which
is
happens
to
be
this,
the
erp
that
most
of
them
use
most
of
the
big
players
use.
A
A
Okay,
I
think
that
covers
all
of
our
questions
here
from
the
chat
log.
We
are
about
13
minutes
over
time.
I
appreciate
everyone's
time
here.
It
was
a
very
informative
and
interesting
presentation.
So
thank
you
so
much
tom
and
jeff,
I'm
sure
everyone
feels
the
same
just
based
on
the
the
conversation
that
I
see
from
the
chat
log.
A
If
anyone
wants
to
reach
out
to
our
speakers
here,
I
think
that
they
have
left
their
contact.
Information,
please
feel
free
to
reach
out
stay
in
touch.
I'm
sure
you
can
also
find
them
on
linkedin,
otherwise,
we'll
go
ahead
and
wrap.
This
up
we'll
also
be
sending
out
a
link
to
the
the
youtube
video
once
the
session
is
over.