►
From YouTube: Chainstack @ Hyperledger Trade Finance SIG
Description
A meeting of the Hyperledger Trade Finance SIG on October 5, 2021 with Laurent Dedenis, CEO & Co-founder of Chainstack, who shared some insights with our community on the challenges in setting-up a network on (digital) trade finance with some thoughts on the related problems for scalability and governance.
More about the Hyperledger Trade Finance Special Interest Group is at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/TFSIG/
More about Chainstack is at: https://chainstack.com/
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
Webinars: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/webinars
Events: https://www.hyperledger.org/events
Vendor Directory: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/vendor-directory
Subscribe to the Hyperledger Newsletter: https://www.hyperledger.org/newsletter
Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
#Hyperledger #HyperledgerTradeFinanceSIG #Blockchain
A
Perfect,
I'm
recording
right
now
by
the
way,
welcome
around
joining
us
today.
I'll
go
through
the
reading
of
the
policy
as
usual.
They
are
used
to
do
linux
foundation
meetings,
involve
participation
by
industry
competitors
and
it
is
the
intention
of
the
limits
foundation
to
conduct
all
of
its
activities
in
accordance
with
applicable
and
trusting
competition
laws.
A
Obviously,
if
you
have
a
question
about
about
this
matters,
please
contact
your
company
council
or,
if
you're,
a
member
of
the
limits
foundation,
feel
free
to
contact
andrea
up
the
grove
of
the
firm
of
gastro
of
llp,
which
provides
legal
counsel.
The
linux
foundation,
hyper
ledger
is
committed
to
creating
a
safe
and
welcoming
community
for
more
information.
Please
visit
our
hyperledger
code
of
conduct
perfect
by
the
way
again
welcome
to
this
strong
community
glad
to
have
you
here
today.
A
B
Okay,
very
good,
so
good
good
morning
and
good
afternoon
to
everyone
and
well
thank
you
andrea
for
you
know,
organizing
this
session
and
I'm
glad
you
know
and-
and
I'm
going
to
try
in
the
next
hour
to
make
this
to
make
this
session
as
interesting
as
I
can.
Actually
that's
the
second
time
that
I
have
an
opportunity
in
the
past
year.
I
think
to
talk
to
the
hyperledger
special
interest
group.
The
first
time
was
not
in
trade
finance.
B
If
you
would
ask
me,
because
I
think
it's
going
to
create
amazing
opportunity
for
some
of
you
on
discover
and
some
of
the
companies
involved
with
the
hyperledger
ecosystem
and
other
ecosystems
in
the
blockchain
industry,
to
basically
create
new
processes,
automate
these
processes
in
some
different
ways
and
that's
what
trade
finance
is
all
about.
So
I'm
really
glad
I'm
given
the
opportunity
to
to
talk
to
to
talk
to
you
today.
B
Let
me
make
a
short
introduction
of
myself.
Let
me
make
a
short
introduction
of
myself,
so
I'm
I'm
a
french
citizen,
but
I've
been
living
outside
of
france
for
about
25
years.
I
spent
most
of
my
time
in
between
the
west
coast
and
east
coast
of
the
us
for
about
11
or
12
years
and
the
rest
of
the
time
I
actually
spent
in
asia
in
a
beautiful
place
called
singapore,
and,
as
many
of
you
I'm
sure
on
this
call,
I
I
don't
necessarily
come
from
the
crypto
world.
B
Now,
if
you
think
of
trade
finance
from
sourcing
to
manufacturing,
to
financing
to
distribution
and
basically
the
seamless
exchange
of
data
and
value
being
possible
throughout
all
actors
in
the
supply
chain,
then
you're
looking
at
a
major
optimization
opportunity
across
the
board.
You're
talking
of
you
know
a
few
percentage
point
of
margins
that
you
can
save
and
intermediary
that
you
can
basically
manage
better
or
reduce
and
providing
a
better
solution
all
together.
B
You
know
some
of
those
use
cases
that
that
we
see,
but
it's
all
about
significant
efficiency
in
automating
processes
and
and
across
multiple
parties,
which
is
very
difficult
to
to
do
today
in
a
more
traditional
setup,
so
the
digital
transformation
process
that
I
started
is
fascinating
by
itself.
I
think
you
you
hear
every
day
and
I
have
many
examples
in
my
presentation
about
entities
consortiums
banks-
you
know
some
of
you
with
your
company,
I'm
sure
on
on.
B
So
I
think
at
this
stage,
I'd
like
to
not
really
give
an
example
of
of
what
trade
finance
or
an
exhaustive
ufo
trade
finance,
because
I'm
sure
you
guys
are
well
aware
of
this,
but
I
wanted
to
share
a
little
bit
more
about
what
we
have
seen
and
also
what
we
have
touched
in
chain
stack
in
the
past
year,
12
months
18
months,
and
they
are
basically
organized
around
four
different
type
of
use.
Cases
right.
B
One
one
case
which
we
see
more
and
more
recently
is
basically
to
build
a
more
efficient
capital
market
process.
Right
and
here
you
see
such
use
cases
as
digital
collateral
and
compliance
use
cases.
You
also
see
optimizing
otc
derivatives
and
post-trade
processing
right,
and
I
think
these
use
cases
you
know
for
a
few
years.
You've
seen
a
few
and
what's
interesting
here
is
justin
acceleration
of
many
banks,
especially
in
asia,
that
are
interested
in
improving
both
digital
collateralization
and
and
the
compliance
aspect
now.
B
A
second
type
of
use
case
we
see,
is
basically
building
digitally
native
trade
and
supply
chain
processes
and
and
that's
the
most
common.
I
think
that
has
existed
in
most
of
the
consortium
and
most
of
the
trade
finance
use
cases
that
we've
been
involved
with
for
probably
four
years,
even
five
years
right,
starting
back
in
2008
in
2019,
it
was
already
fully
developed,
and
here
you're,
looking
at
two
a
separate
track.
B
I
think
one
track
is
really
untraceability
interesting
data
across
the
supply
chain,
which
I
think
is
what
has
progressed
the
faster
simply
because
tracking
and
and
creating
audit
trail
and
trusted
a
certain
level
of
trust
within
the
supply
chain
is,
is
probably
a
very
natural
criteria
for
blockchain
to
be
based
on
and
and
it
works
very
well.
The
second
use
case
is
trade
based
money
laundering
and
we've
seen
some
use
cases
here
in
asia.
I
think
in
the
philippines
you've
seen
some
ideas
around
this.
B
B
Certainly
we
we
see
it
happening
in
the
u.s
in
in
specific
conditions,
and
we
also
see
it
happening
over
europe
in
in
western
europe
countries,
even
though
it's
it
seems
to
be
a
little
bit
slower
than
what
we
see
in
asia
now.
So
that's
trade,
finance
and
I'm
sure
you
guys
can
come
up
with
multiple
other
examples
of
of
project
that
you
might
have
been
involved
with
or
that
production
that
have
gone
live
in
the
past
in
the
past
years.
B
But
that's
what
we
have
seen
as
far
as
chain
stack
is
concerned
now.
The
reason
I
wanted
to
set
the
stage
is
because
every
single
one
of
those
four
different
examples
are
basically
conditioned
by
a
very
active
and
very
digital
and
more
automated
collaboration
and
collaboration
is
imperative
in
trade
finance
and
I'm
sure
all
of
you
have
noticed,
if
not
experienced
firsthand,
that
this
is
a
very
complicated
process
to
make
all
these
different
players
of
the
trade
finance
area
work
together.
B
Now
what
blockchain
brings
and
what
decentralized
solution
brings,
is
basically
a
certain
level
of
collaboration
based
on
trust
right
and
I'm
not
going
to
give
you
a
one-on-one
class
on
how
blockchain
create
trust.
But
I
think
it's
important
to
make
people
remember
that
there
is
an
interesting
aspect
in
the
technology
itself,
which
is
that
it
creates
immutability
and
and
and
certain
level
of
auditing,
which
makes
collaboration
easier,
and
the
reason
I
stress
this
is
because
it
seems
that
especially
in
trade.
B
One
point
that
we
noticed,
which
I
think
is
interesting,
is
the
fact
that
collaboration
in
trade
finance
already
exists.
Right,
I
mean
one
could
argue
that
trade
finance
by
itself
is
already
a
big
supply
chain
and
full
chain
of
successive
collaboration
working
together,
most
of
them
one
to
one
or
some
one
too
many,
and
that
basically
allow
people
to
create
certain
level
of
efficiency.
B
When
you
talk
to
the
people
today
in
the
chain
of
say
a
trade
finance
documentation
all
together.
You
know
every
probably
single
chain
of
this
big
chain
creates
some
level
of
value,
but
the
value
they
had
also
created
efficiencies
and
and
and
potential
optimization,
which
I
think
is
why
blockchain
can
truly
make
trade
finance
look
better
than
this
picture
right
I
mean
this
picture
is
probably
a
good
example
on
how
people
discuss
argue
and
come
together
now.
B
The
reason
I
choose
this
picture
here
is
because
I'd
like
to
explain
that
for
people
to
collaborate,
it's
not
only
a
a
technology
agreement,
it's
also
a
scope,
it's
also
a
governance.
It's
also
a
way
to
work
together
and
frequently,
especially
in
the
early
trade
finance,
use
cases
that
we've
been
involved.
B
It
looks
like
people
had
not
really
think
about
how
this
could
be
scaled
and
strive
as
network
creating
network
effect,
which
I
think
in
trade
finance
will
be
amazingly
powerful,
so
blockchain
is
offering
partially
a
solution
to
trust
and
to
basically
improve
collaboration
all
together
by
providing
certain
level
of
verification,
traceability,
maintain
privacy
and
remove
intermediary.
So
all
the
bugs
are
checked
when
it
comes
to
trade
finance
and
in
fact
this
is
probably
why
you've
seen
so
many
trade
finance
consortium
developing
in
the
past
five
or
six
years.
B
Right
I
mean
you,
have
you
know
some
familiar
name
here,
I'm
sure
most
of
you
knows
trade
lands,
I'm
sure.
Most
of
you
know
we
trade,
I'm
sure
you
know-
and
you
are
also
familiar
with
some
of
the
r3
consortium
in
trade
finance,
which
are
also
based
in
asia
like
control
and
marco
polo.
Now,
if
you
look
at
this
ecosystem,
which
I
think
is
a
good
view
of
the
ecosystem,
even
though
this
is
dated
2019,
so
the
ecosystem
has
changed
a
little
bit,
but
I
did
not
find
a
better
representation
of
it.
B
Basically,
those
consortiums
they
also
compete
together
and
another
thing
which
is
kind
of
interesting
in
the
construction
of
this
consortium
is
many.
Players
are
actually
part
of
multiple
consortiums
right.
A
little
bit
like
an
enterprise
would
basically
open.
Multiple
bank
bank
accounts
to
mitigate
each
risk
right,
so
that's
kind
of
the
landscape,
and
I
was,
I
think,
involved
in
many
discussions
with
at
least
six
of
those
five.
I'm
sorry
of
those
different
protocols-
and
I
was
very
bullish
back
in
2018
2019-
that
they
would
basically
grow
and
organize
themselves
very
fast.
B
Well,
in
fact,
depending
on
whether
you
look
at
you
know
your
glass
being
half
full
or
half
empty,
one
could
argue
that
the
formation
of
this
consortium
was
very
fast.
Another
one
could
argue
that
the
scale
and
the
number
of
partners
involved
and
participant
involved
with
this
consortium
as
not
grow
as
exponentially
as
what
some
people
thought,
and
I
think
the
reason
for
this
is
mostly
linked
to
the
challenges
of
creating
a
consortium
and-
and
I
don't
think
those
are
naturally
trade-
finance
related
consortium
issues.
B
And
what
I'd
like
to
do
in
this?
You
know
third
part
of
my
presentation
is
basically
go
through
some
of
those
detailed
issues.
We
we
saw
some
of
our
customers
and
some
of
people
we
work
with
facing
so
that
you
can
maybe
avoid
them
or
or
basically
build
a
solution
for
so
the
first
issue
we
see
in
the
construction
and
establishing
a
decentralized
consortium
is
really
the
scope
of
the
consortium
itself,
and
I
think
this
is
somewhat
linked
to
governance
in
some
way
and
I'll
come
back
to
this.
B
But
the
first
thing
that
we
see
is
basically
the
scope
of
what
the
consortium
is
supposed
to
build
and
deliver
right.
Initially,
most
of
the
consortium
were
built
across
a
very
large
mandate
of
basically
addressing
a
very
large
problem,
and
I
think
what
we
see
today
is
many
of
those
consortium
focusing
on
key
pain,
point
and
narrower
use
cases
so
that
they
can
actually
deliver
value
and
as
they
do
this,
then
they
need
to
think
of
how
the
network
itself
is
going
to
become
a
trusted
entity
and
will
basically
be
operated.
B
B
B
So
we
see
these
two
construction
of
how
those
network
grow,
and
we
you
know,
I'm
not
sure
today,
you
know
what
what's
the
best
model,
I
think
business
network
operator
seems
to
be
kind
of
the
best
way
of
doing
it
from
my
standpoint,
but
it
does
not
check
all
the
boxes
when
it
comes
to
some
of
the
challenges
and
issues
and
one
of
the
issue
that
we
see
a
hundred
percent
of
the
time-
and
this
is
also
our
business.
So
that's
probably
why
we,
we
kind
of
you
know
we
are
exposed
to
this.
B
One
of
the
issues
that
we
see
all
the
time
is
basically
the
infrastructure
requirements
and
compliance
and
security
and
regulatory
aspects,
especially
in
trade
finance,
being
one
of
the
largest
constraint
of
of
a
consortium
growing
and
assembling,
assembling
and
growing
right
and
the
infrastructure
is
really
focused
around.
What
is
it
going
to
be?
What
is
it
going
to
take
for
a
participant
to
basically
join
a
consortium
and
operate
as
part
of
the
consortium?
So
you,
you
have
a
business
network
operator.
You
have
some
governance.
The
value
it
delivers
on
the
use
case
is
good.
B
Now
you
need
to
assemble
in
the
case
of
trade
finance,
we
we
had
discussion
with
some
banks
in
asia
that
have
tens
of
thousands
of
trade
partners
and,
of
course
not
all
of
them
need
to
run
a
node.
Not
all
of
them
need
to
learn
to
run
their
own
infrastructure,
but
many
of
them
actually
need
to
connect
and
and
operate
as
one
of
the
participants
of
the
network.
And
how
do
you
do
to
onboard
them?
B
B
So
we
provide
full
managed
services
for
those
nodes,
and
we
also
provide
an
automated
onboarding
for
people
joining
a
certain
consortium.
So
that's
that's
kind
of
the
solution
we
build
now.
I
want
you
to
come
back
on
this
other
view.
Right
this
view
is,
you
know,
has
a
lot
of
you
know
common
names
but
they're
more
visible,
because
you,
you
see
the
actual
name
of
the
project
or
name
of
the
application
using
it
again.
B
Now,
of
course,
now
the
last
two
issues
that
we
see
are
basically,
how
does
that
scale?
Right
I
mean
how
do
you
scale
your
use
case
with
one
partner,
one
too
many
and
all
the
participants,
and
then,
of
course,
how
does
this
scale
and
what
does
this
scale
mean
from
a
scope
standpoint
and
an
infrastructure
standpoint?
And
here
you
know
what
what
we
see
is
basically
the
best
way
to
to
look
at.
B
This
would
be
to
basically
create
a
process
where
anyone
in
the
trade
finance
space
could
basically
join
any
of
the
consortium
and
basically
become
a
participant
in
some
very
fast
option,
and
this
is
the
level
of
automation
that
we
are
not
there.
You
know
we're
not
there
yet,
but
this
is
a
level
of
automation
we
need
to
see
and
we
need
to
build
if
you
want
this
large
trade
finance
consortium
to
operate
and
be
truly
decentralized,
striving
and
growing
exponentially
from
a
number
of
participants.
B
B
Let's,
let's
gather
everyone
around
one
idea
and
and
on
board
everyone
no
say:
let's,
let's
be
open-minded
and
have
a
start
on
something
that
works,
especially
in
the
in
the
private
permission
chain,
and
let's
make
sure
that
what
we
build
we'll
be
able
to
scale
so
that
we
can
accommodate
the
growth
and
and
the
projects
that
we're
trying
to
that.
We're
trying
to
develop
so
that's
what
we
see
in
this
space.
B
I
think
you
have
all
you
know
noticed
some
of
those
names
that
I'm
sure
you
guys
are
very
familiar
with.
I
wanted
to
share
that
with
you
today.
I
promised
my
presentation
will
be
about
35
minutes,
so
I
think
that's
exactly
what
it
was
and
I
would
be
happy
to
answer
a
question
and
try
to
answer
a
question
about
the
formation
of
the
consortium
or
maybe
on
the
infrastructure
side,
what
we've
seen
or
what
we've
done.
That
might
be
interesting
for
for
the
special
interest
group.
A
A
A
A
A
C
B
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
unity.
So
no,
we
have
not
resolved
alone
the
entire
problem
of
interoperability.
I
think
we
should
consider
interoperability
to
be
to
be
basically
conditioned
to
three
things
right
number
one:
it's
not
going
to
be
a
full
interoperability
across
all
different
protocols,
and
you
know
consensus
that
you
can
think
of.
B
You
know
and
and
that's
how
they
they
want
to
operate
it
and,
at
the
same
time
connect
it
with
and
and
get
members.
You
know
using
public
cloud
or
using
hybrid
cloud
to
basically
also
connect
to
the
same
network,
and
that
creates
an
an
opportunity
for
scalability,
which
is
a
reason
why
we
built
this
solution.
So
having
multiple
networks
and
also
multiple
providers
of
nodes,
not
only
change
stack
but
others
to
basically
work
together
on
on
this,
and-
and
I
think
today
the
solution
is
relatively
good
and
stable.
B
Now
we
don't
know-
or
I
do
not
know
any
case-
nitish
of
of
anyone
that
has
done
work
on
true
interoperability
of
some
of
those
blockchain
consortium,
but
I
can
clearly
see
in
the
trade
finance
space
some
consortium
converging,
maybe
into
addressing
the
same
use
case
on
the
same
protocol
and
maybe
at
some
point
joined
forces
together
and
it's
not
really
happened
yet.
But
I
can
clearly
see
that
some
use
case
and
some
commonalities
might
make
sense
at
some
point,
sounds
good
thanks.
C
C
So
maybe
I
ask
a
question
right,
so
I
think
you're.
What
you're
saying
is
that
it's
the
governance
and
there's
a
lot
more
to
it
than
just
the
tech
right.
So
what
kind
of
proportion
would
you
say
or
what
would
it
be
the
big
experiences
you
think
that
people
should
take?
How
should
they
be
if
they
want
to
set
up
a
network
or
connect
the
network?
What
are
the
kind
of
things
they
should
be
thinking
about.
B
B
Now
I
think
those
are
different
industries
all
together
and
it
would
be
great
to
solve
them
as
one
which
is
what
many
of
the
consortium
are
trying
to
do,
but
I
think
we
have
to
start
and
be
humble
about
the
way
this
can
work
and
in
some
way
you
have
part
of
this
already
addressed
in
supply,
chain
management,
use
cases
and,
I
think,
being
narrow
in
the
use
case.
That
you
address
is
great
now.
The
the
second
thing
is
the
construction
of
the
consortium.
B
That
includes
the
infrastructure
right
I
mean,
if
you,
if
you
run
a
consortium
and
you
run
the
infrastructure
and
the
only
choice
is
for
members
to
to
basically
join
your
infrastructure
and
that's
you
know,
take
it
or
leave
it.
Then
you
kind
of
take
away
some
of
the
benefits
of
the
true
decentralized
model
and
also
take
away
the
potential
of
scalability.
B
A
You
say
definitely
by
the
way:
lauren
trade
finance
is
not
an
industry,
it's
more
than
an
industry.
It's
so
many
industries,
get
it
all
together
each
of
them.
You
know
the
cross
path,
it
has
its
own
specific
features.
Payment
is
documents
handling,
it's
you
know,
financing
which
makes
the
picture
even
more
complicated
and,
of
course,
the
governance
in
this
case
follows
the
same.
Pathway,
gets
more
and
more
complicated
and
diverse.
B
So
I
I
guess
nobody
knows
right.
We
have
to
ask,
I
guess
I
can.
I
can
tell
you
that
that
the
consortium
we
are
involved
with
where
a
financial
institution
is
involved,
the
financial
institution
wants
to
make
sure
that
that
whatever
they
run
regardless,
their
partner
will
will
be
compliant
and
and
okay
from
a
regulatory
standpoint,
and
and
that's
probably
the
first.
C
B
Well,
so
we
we,
the
largest
consortium
we
have
been
exposed
to,
and
we
are
working
with
today
are
in
all
in
asia,
but
I
think
that's
also
the
nature
of
the
fragmentation
of
the
markets
here
which
create
this
opportunity,
which
is
fantastic.
So
if
they,
if
they
crack
it,
I
think
it
it
will
be
the
biggest
reward.
A
B
Oh,
I
I
mean
this
is
probably
a
economic
or
an
and
industry-based
question.
I
I
think
singapore
historically,
like
hong
kong,
had
a
lot
of
regional
companies
right,
a
lot
of
regional
banks
and
because
you
have
regional
banks
and,
of
course,
singapore
and
hong
kong
being
a
big
some
of
the
biggest
harbor.
They
have
a
lot
of
trade
and
supply
chain.
So
they
naturally,
I
think,
are
more
inclined
to
to
favor
this
and
that's
why?
Maybe
you
have
more
activities
here.
That
would
be
my
explanation.
C
Yeah,
I
think,
there's
been
also
been
a
lot
of
very
good
government
intervention
right
in
across
many
countries
in
asia,
trying
to
work
out
if
you're,
a
kind
of
like
hub,
like
singapore
or
hong
kong.
You
have
to
perceive
the
future
as
well
right.
Work
make
sure
you're
competitive.
So
I
don't
know
if
you've
seen
that
yeah
sure.
A
C
B
Well,
thank
you
julian
for
this
opportunity.
So
please
I
mean,
if
you
guys,
are
building
or
if
you
guys
are
developer,
just
come
to
changetag.com.
You
click
on
try.
There
is
a
free
developer
plan
for
a
week.
You
can,
you
can
try
change
stack
inside
out
and
there
you
can
actually
deploy
both
public
blockchain
protocol
and
private
permission.
B
Blockchain
like
hyperledger,
and
you
know
you
can
actually
deploy
your
node
and
and
everything
that
goes
with
it
for
hyperledger
and
then
you
can
start
building
or
you
can
actually
start
growing
and
and
connecting
with
other
members,
so
that
that's
what
we
do.
If
you
have
any
question
about
this,
please
go
to
suppor.chainsack.com
or
send
email
directly
at
lte,
dot,
chance
at
chainsack.com
and
and
we'll
be
happy
to
help
you.
B
Today
we
have
a
little
bit
over
8
000
developer
at
the
end
of
september,
using
a
chain
stack
on
on
monthly
basis.
We
have
hundreds
of
customer
running
in
production,
both
in
public
and
private
blockchain,
and
we
have
probably
you
know,
six
or
seven
large
hyperledger
project,
either
testing
experimenting
or
deploying
in
production
in
in
chain
stack
today
across
different
time
zone.