►
From YouTube: IETF101-PLENARY-20180321-1710
Description
PLENARY meeting session at IETF101
2018/03/21 1710
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/proceedings/
A
Hun
I'm
Alisa
Cooper
I'm,
the
chair
of
the
IETF
and
in
case
you're,
not
sure
where
you
are
in
this
hotel
you're
in
the
plenary,
so
welcome
to
the
plenary
here
in
lovely
London
I
will
say
that
I'm
one
of
the
first
days
that
I
was
here
for
this
meeting
end
of
last
week.
I
was
trying
to
figure
out
where
my
next
meeting
was
in
the
in
the
hotel
and
walked
over
to
the
elevators
and
was
kind
of
shuffling.
With
my
phone
looking
at
the
floor
plan
and
I
figured
out.
A
Okay
I
need
to
be
in
the
West
Wing,
which
is
where
we
are
now
and
then
realize.
I
actually
don't
know
which
wing
I
am
in
a
moment
and
so
I
sort
of
looked
up
for
my
phone
to
see
you
know
maybe
the
wall.
It's
gonna
tell
me
what
sign
which
wing
I'm
in
but
of
course
it
didn't,
but
what
I
did
see
on
the
wall
was.
A
A
Why
am
I
looking
at
this
guy
who's
in
the
labyrinth
and
I'm
in
a
labyrinth,
and
it
only
took
a
second
but
then
I
realized,
of
course,
that
this
is
part
of
our
our
dear
Secretariat's
scavenger
hunt
to
help
people
familiarize
themselves
with
this
venue
and
I
just
wanted
to
take
a
moment
to
thank
AMS
and
all
the
Secretariat
folks
for
all
the
support
they
provide
to
the
IETF
and
in
the
very
unique
way
in
which
they
understand
our
needs
and
tailor
to
them.
So
thank
you
very
much.
A
And
you
know
that
extends
to
things
like
showing
up
with
a
leprechaun
suit
in
honor
of
st.
Patrick's
Day,
which
happened
on
the
weekend
in
case
for
those
new
who
weren't
here
Alexa
was
wandering
around
as
a
leprechaun,
as
was
I,
think
Stephanie
and
she,
as
you
can
see
it
was
not
wearing
a
red
lanyard
and
gave
me
consent
to
use
her
photo
in
the
plenary
so
kudos
to
AMS.
Thank
you
so
much
for
all
that
you
do
for
the
IETF
today
we
will
have
our
sort
of
typical
agenda
so
welcome
to
the
plenary.
A
We
will
hear
from
our
one
of
our
hosts
at
this
meeting
and
then
we'll
have
brief
updates
on
hot
topics.
So,
as
people
have
seen
in
the
plenaries
the
last
couple
of
years,
we
have
sent
out
many
reports
in
advance
of
the
plenary
that
contain
a
lot
of
detail
about
all
the
things
that
are
going
on
in
the
IETF,
and
we
are
attempting
to
make
the
plenary
presentations
short
and
to
the
point
and
highlighting
just
the
most
current
issues
for
the
community
so
well.
A
I
will
give
one
of
those
we'll
have
administrative
update,
an
update
from
the
IR
to
get
chair,
Alice
and
Menken
here
from
the
past
and
in
coming
non-pom
chairs,
and
we
will
hear
from
I
sock
about
the
Jonathan
V
Postell
award.
Then
we'll
get
a
bit
of
a
preview
of
IETF
102
coming
up
this
summer.
We
will
recognize
some
folks
in
the
community
who
are
transitioning
in
their
status
and
then
we'll
have
the
technical
plenary
which
I'm
very
excited
about
about
the
future
of
Internet
access.
A
A
We
really
we,
we
really
could
not
have
the
meetings
without
the
hosts,
although
we
occasionally
do
there
just
not
nearly
as
good.
The
host
plays
a
really
important
role
of
not
just
through
their
financial
support,
but
other
logistical
and
administrative
support
at
the
meeting,
and
so
we
really
appreciate
that
and
now
I'd
like
to
ask
urine
to
come
up
to
the
stage
and
we're
gonna
hear
from
one
of
our
co-hosts
I
can't.
B
Anyway,
thank
you,
I
never
happens
in
I,
never
have
received
so
many
instructions
going
to
any
meeting
since
I
saw
it
for
right
now.
I
just
want
to
share
with
you
some
of
them.
My
first
mission
here
is
to
make
make
sure
that
I
don't
embarrass
my
team.
Where
is
my
team
I
think
yeah?
They
also
told
me
they'd,
be
nice
and
be
yourself,
that's
contradiction
in
terms.
Isn't
it
and
I
didn't
I,
don't
I
don't
have
to
I
shouldn't,
wear
a
suit
and
a
tie
which
most
people
never
seen
me
have
anyway.
B
So
I,
don't
know
what
that
I
was
actually
thinking
of
wearing
a
suit
of
attire.
Yes,
for
that,
thank
you,
I,
don't
know
how
much
you
know
about
ICANN
itself
or
myself
by
I.
Actually,
I
am
called
the
most
nerdiest
CEO
like
that
ever
I
have
a
background
in
switching
routing
mobile
telecom,
but
for
the
last
year
and
now
a
recovering
telecom
regulator,
so
I've
seen
them.
B
Does
the
policy
are
the
Ori
ORS
or
the
numbers
community,
and
from
the
outside
and
I'm
not
supposed
to
say
this?
According
to
my
share,
we're
in
this
together,
I
didn't
say
that
did
I.
Thank
you
for
listening
and
that's
important
to
me.
A
couple
of
years
ago,
when
I
was
appointed
this
year,
I
had
the
pleasure
of
going
to
you
as
Congress
to
meet
a
guy
called
Ted
Cruz
and
one
of
the
things
I
talked
about.
All
the
time
is
in
the
voluntarily
of
the
system
we
do.
This
is
set
up
to
be
voluntarily.
B
We
work
together
because
we
have
to
in
a
voluntarily
wife,
everybody
can
sort
of
walk
away
and
do
something
different
I.
Don't
do
this
to
sell
the
main
names
I.
Do
this
because
I
think
it's
intensely
important
that
the
internet
stays
open
and
interconnected
I
think
you
have
done
a
great
job,
all
of
you,
despite
all
you
even
have
more
acronyms
than
we
have.
Yes,
you
did
you're
the
winners,
but
now,
for
the
first
time,
I
also
see
that
the
things
we
do
together
collectively
in
this
ecosystems
is
treasured.
I
can
give
you
one
example.
B
There
are
many
legislative
proposals
and
discussions
around
the
world
right
now
here
in
Europe
in
the
US
and
other
parts
of
the
world,
then
maybe
for
the
first
time
ever
will
have
an
effect
on
our
abilities
to
makes
policies,
and
there
are
any
discussions
and
I.
Don't
judge
from
that.
Well
being
good
or
bad
I,
don't
say
that
that
is
the
stupid
idea,
but
I
know
that
some
of
them
can
actually
have
hurt
the
interconnectivity
of
Internet
that
itself
and
I
think
that
we
need
to
continue
to
work
together.
B
What
I
heard
from
this
law
this
week
has
been
very
interesting,
and
my
team
has
been
stopping
me
for
going
in
or
having
opinions
about
technical
stuff,
which
I
don't
know
about
that
is
otherwise
what
I
love
to
do,
but
to
continue
this
work
together,
and,
hopefully
me
being
here
and
you
coming
to
us
and
we
can
work
on
the
issue
base
together.
We
can
make
sure
that
what
I'm
here
for
and
what
I
know
that
many
of
you
are
there
for
is
to
make
sure
that
infinite
states
open
and
interconnected.
A
So
first
a
participant
statistics.
At
this
meeting
we
have
one
thousand
one
hundred
and
eighty
nine
people
on
site,
and
we
have
two
hundred
and
eighteen
attendees
for
whom
it's
their
first
meeting.
So
thank
you
to
all
of
you
for
coming
for
the
first
time
to
experience
an
IETF
in
person
and
thank
you
to
all
of
those
who've
been
coming
for
a
long
time
who
have
helped
those
newcomers
find
their
way.
A
If
we
compare
two
meetings,
our
most
recent
Spring
Meeting,
which
is
last
spring,
we
have
more
people
have
showed
up
here
than
did
in
Chicago
at
IETF
98.
If
we
compare
to
our
most
recent
European
meeting,
which
was
last
summer,
we
had
more
people
show
up
in
Prague
then
than
we
did
here.
You
can
see
the
country
breakdown
on
the
slide.
A
A
We're
gonna
continue
to
experiment
with
that
sort
of
thing.
So
if
you
have
feedback
about
that
event
or
about
the
hackathon
itself,
you
can
always
email
it
to
the
hackathon
list.
You
can
email
me.
You
can
email,
charles
eckle
who's
who's
been
the
main
driver
behind
the
hackathon
and
for
planning
purposes.
We
are
certainly
planning
to
do
the
hackathon
again
at
IETF,
102,
July,
14
and
15,
this
Saturday
and
Sunday
at
the
start
of
the
meeting
week.
A
At
this
meeting
we
also
tried
a
new
event
on
Sunday
night
organized
by
Aaron
Falk,
with
support
on
the
IHG
from
Ilya
Atlas
and
Spencer
Dawkins.
It's
called
request
for
conversation,
otherwise
known
as
hot
RFC.
So
this
was
an
opportunity
for
people
who
wanted
to
give
brief
lightning
talks
to
encourage
brainstorming,
to
find
collaborators
to
advertise
their
their
bar
buffs
or
to
just
generally
raise
awareness
about
some
new
idea
that
they
have
or
that
they
that
they've
been
working
on
and
by
all
accounts
it
seems
the
feedback
that
we've
gotten
so
far
is
quite
positive.
A
We
had
17
lightning
talks
that
were
given
we
had
about
somewhere
between
80
and
100
people
in
the
room.
It
ran
concurrently
with
the
second
hour
of
the
Welcome
Reception,
and
you
can
find
the
proceedings
online.
All
the
slides
are
up
there.
The
is.
She
is
very
interested
in
hearing
from
the
community
about
what
they
thought
about
this,
whether
we
should
do
it
again.
A
What
we
should
change
or
do
differently,
so
please
send
that
feedback
to
iesg
at
IETF,
org
or
happy
to
talk
about
it
at
the
open
mic
session
here
as
well
and
and
big
thanks
to
Aaron
for
all
his
work
in
helping
to
organize
that
we've
also
continued
our
experiment
at
this
meeting
with
side
meetings
and
and
the
code
lounge.
So
what
we've
done
for
side
meetings?
A
And
so
it's
important
to
remember
the
line
between
those
things.
The
code
lounge
is
a
portion
of
ITF
meeting
room
space
which
has
been
set
aside
for
people
that
get
together
and
pack
together
to
continue
their
activities
from
the
hackathon
or
just
generally,
do
some
development
work
on
the
side
of
the
IETF
meeting
and
both
of
these
are
still
kind
of
in
the
experimental
stage.
A
A
Now
to
the
IETF
administrative
support,
activity
or
I
asset
Udo,
so
I
asset
is
the
name
that
we
use
to
describe
the
way
that
we
structure
the
administration
of
the
IETF.
That
means
the
meeting
planning
the
financial
planning,
the
fundraising
and
so
on.
I
asked
a
to
toe
is
an
activity
that
started
in
November
of
2016,
with
a
sort
of
project
plan
that
URI
Arco
the
previous
IETF
chair,
mailed
out
to
the
ITF
list.
A
And
yesterday
we
had
a
Bop
session
where
we
talked
in
even
greater
detail
about
several
of
these
different
options
that
have
been
considered
and
that
about
which
we
had
sought
legal
advice
and
what
happened
in
the
bathroom
is
a
couple
of
things.
First,
by
by
the
end
of
the
session,
we
had
rough
consensus
in
the
room
in
favor
of
creating
a
limited
liability
corporation
that
would
be
treated
as
a
division
of
I
sock
for
tax
purposes
in
order
to
house
just
the
administrative
piece
of
the
ietf.
A
So
this
doesn't
really
have
anything
to
do
with
the
standards
process
and
everything
that
the
IHG
and
the
I,
if
you
do,
and
that
it
happens
in
the
working
groups
and
among
document
authors
just
for
the
administration
of
the
IETF,
and
this
particularly
goal
structure,
has
a
number
of
values
and
properties
to
recommend
it.
As
you,
several
of
the
others
that
we
considered,
but
that
was
kind
of
where
the
the
room
landed.
And
if
you
want
more
details
on
any
of
this,
it's
all
available
on
the
is
a
Cheeto
mailing
list.
A
The
Charter
for
the
working
group
would
be
to
update
our
assisting
RFC's
that
describe
all
of
all
of
these
administrative
structures
and
then
outside
the
working
group.
We
would
begin
working
on
the
actual
legal
documentation
which
we
would
not
write
in
the
working
group,
since
that's
not
an
appropriate
venue
to
do
that
kind
of
thing
and
these
processes
would
work
in
parallel.
So
if
you're
interested
in
any
of
this,
please
join
the
mailing
list.
I
asked
a
to
toe
I
know
that
many
people
are
not
interested
in
this,
but
for
some
people
it's
an
it's.
A
The
choice
of
an
administrative
structure
embodies
a
lot
about
the
IETF
and
and
how
we
operate
as
a
community,
and
so
I
really
wanted
to
just
take
a
few
minutes
of
your
time
to
raise
awareness
about
this
in
case.
It's
something
that
people
haven't
been
following.
I
also
wanted
to
just
take
a
moment
touch
on
respectful
behavior
in
our
community.
So
on
the
slide
you
can
see,
we
have
a
list
of
our
existing
policies
that
govern
behavior
in
the
IETF.
We
have
guidelines
for
conduct
which
is
encoded
in
a
PCP.
A
So
you
can
take
a
minute
and
you
can
kind
of
peruse
the
policies
familiarize
yourself
with
them.
If
you
haven't
before,
but
perhaps
more
important
than
reading
the
policies,
I
think
it's
important
for
everybody
to
think
just
for
a
minute
about
what
happens
in
this
community
and
how
much
it
is
derived
from
the
individual
choices
that
we
all
make.
So
this
community
is
really
made
up
of.
A
It
is
what
we
make
it,
and
if
you
want
to
be
treated
respectfully,
then
you
need
to
treat
other
people
respectfully
and
I
think
sometimes
I
gets
a
little
bit
lost
like
it's
really
easy
to
get
really
amped
up
about
whatever
technical
topic
you're
discussing
or
if
you're
having
to
be
discussing,
say
one
of
these
policies
on
a
mailing
list.
It's
easy
to
get
lost
in
details
and
get
overheated
about
those
things
and
I.
Think
it's
important
for
all
of
us
to
kind
of
take
a
check,
sometimes
and
and
think
about.
A
A
So
other
experiments
are
running
information
about
Appeals,
which
we
haven't
had
any
of,
and
the
last
cycle
status
update
about
how
we're
trying
to
handle
some
Demark
issues
with
IETF
mailing
lists
and
lots
of
other
reports
from
other
parts
of
the
IETF
that
you
can
find
online
in
addition
to
the
blog
or
were
regularly
providing
narrative
content
about
what's
going
on
in
the
IETF
and
with
that,
I
will
turn
it
over
to
administrative
hot
topics.
So
Beyonce
you're
gonna
come
up
to
the
to
the
mic
and
Portia
when
Sam.
A
So,
just
to
explain
why
the
name
fiance
is
on
the
slide,
so
the
the
IASE,
which
is
the
administrative
oversight
committee
of
the
IETF.
It
doesn't
elect
its
chair
in
the
ITF
week
until
Tuesday
morning.
So
yesterday
morning
was
when
we
elected
the
new
chair
of
the
IOC,
and
yet
the
slides
for
this
presentation
need
to
be
built.
A
F
F
E
E
E
E
And,
of
course,
in
the
background,
there's
so
many
people
who
are
working
to
who
come
into
the
into
the
venue
so
early
to
make
sure
that
everything
is
going
as
it
should
and
also
just
working
behind
the
scenes.
We've
got
our
code
sprint
and
I.
Each
have
data
tracker
enhancement
of
volunteers
for
that
and
for
some
reason
that
the
slides
are
going
faster
than
I
am
and
next
for
the
hackathon.
Thank
you
so
much
to
Cisco
and
dev
net.
We
appreciate
everything
that
you've
done
for
us.
E
E
E
Reminder
that
Thursday
is
tomorrow:
we've
got
Dave
Conrad
for
Thursday
Tech
Talk,
and
hopefully
everyone
will
have
a
chance
where
most
of
you
will
have
a
chance
to
stop
by
and
for
that
and
last
but
not
least,
certainly
we'd
like
to
announce
our
go:
global
host
for
Montreal
100,
ETF,
105,
July
20th
through
26
2019,
and
thank
you
very
much.
Comcast
NBC
Universal.
D
D
You
may
not
know
this,
but
not
everybody
in
this
room
is
always
entirely
nice
to
the
IOC
and
and-
and
these
are
the
people
who
who
took
many
of
those
slings
and
arrows
of
arrows
over
time
and
and
I
understand
something
about
how
you
can
you
know.
Sometimes
you
misjudge
things.
Sometimes
the
community
is
not
perfectly
clear
about
all
of
the
things
that
it
wants
and
I
think
that
both
Leslie
and
tibias
did
some
wonderful
work.
They
helped
us
over
time,
so
I
really
want
to
thank
them
very
much.
D
I
want
to
do
that
mostly
because
sometimes
I
was
the
sling
holder
on
so
Glenn
and
I
are
joining
the
the
IOC
again
I
for
my
sins
of
coming
back,
and
so
my
colleagues
picked
me
as
the
fool
who
put
his
head
in
the
sling,
so
here
I
am
on.
We
have
some
other
welcome
to
make.
We
have
a
new
legal
counsel
and
this
has
been
split
up
a
little
bit.
So
a
brad
is
actually
here
and
will
be
coming
up
a
little
bit
later.
D
D
Now
we
put
up
the
detailed
report
already
so
I'm
not
going
to
go
into
all
kinds
of
details
here,
but
it's
there
on
the
on
the
slides
and
of
course
you
can
find
it
on
the
web,
but
I
do
want
to
remind
people
of
a
couple
of
things.
First
of
all,
we
have
this
new
venue
selection
committee,
so
the
meetings
committee,
what
is
is
coming
to
an
end
and
the
new
venue
selection
committee
has
been
announced.
D
Now,
why
am
I
standing
up
here?
Well
because
of
budgets?
That's
the
reason
we
have
the
IOC,
we're
the
you
know,
people
who
are
nominally
responsible
to
you
in
order.
You
know
having
to
do
with
anything
to
do
with
the
money
here
and
the
the
news
is
not
as
good
as
we
would
like
on.
So
we
put
up
the
expenses
and
the
annual
the
the
budget,
and
also
the
budget
narrative
that
was
announced
a
little
while
ago,
and
it's
on
the
list
I
urge
you
to
read
it.
D
This
is
how
we,
how
we
are
accountable
to
you.
You
know
we
do
the
counting.
So
this
is.
This
is
something
that
I
really
urge
you
to
have
a
look
at
because
after
all,
you
pay
to
be
here,
or
most
of
you
did
anyway,
and
so
the
the
the
the
budget
is
not
going
down
it's
the
same.
But
but
what's
really
happening
is
our
expenses
are
static
and
our
revenue
is
not
it's
falling.
D
In
particular,
we
got
a
problem
with
meetings,
so
so
we're
having
a
hard
time
predicting
what
the
attendance
is
going
to
be,
and
we
don't
know
why
it
would
be
great
if
we
knew
why,
then
we
would
have
a
model
and
they'd
be
fine,
but
actually
our
models
broken.
Our
sponsorship,
however,
appears
to
be
stable.
Other
challenges
there
as
there
always
have
been.
D
That's
the
reason,
of
course,
that
ken
has
joined
us,
but
you
know
that
part
seems
to
be
pretty
good,
but
I'm
quite
worried
about
the
attendance,
so
we're
gonna
have
to
do
some
things
about
this
now.
Well,
it's
been
how
many
in
the
past
is
every
time
we
run
into
a
shortfall.
I
socks
says:
well,
don't
worry
about
it.
We're
gonna,
look
after
that,
but
that
can't
go
on
forever
right,
so
we're
the
this
this
year.
D
What
we're
gonna
do
is
we're
gonna,
take
last
year's
actual
contribution
and
we
just
increase
the
budget
by
that
much
the
budgeted
I
saw
contribution,
which
means
that
we
better
come
in
inside
our
our
targets
right.
So
that's
one
thing:
we're
planning
to
keep
the
meeting
registration
fees
the
same
in
2018.
There's
no
current
plan
to
raise
them
this
year,
but
I
want
to
draw
your
attention
to
that
third
bullet.
The
current
forecast
is
that
we're
gonna
raise
the
meaning
fees
next
year
and
the
guidance
that's
currently
in
the
system
is
that
we're
gonna.
D
D
At
the
same
time,
we
know
that
I
asked
a
2-0
is
coming
along.
We
don't
know
how
that's
going
to
affect
ietf
finances,
there's
lots
of
things
that
could
happen
there
and
nobody
knows
what's
going
to
happen,
that
could
affect
registration
fees
as
well.
So
you
need
to
be
prepared
for
that.
There
is
the
Budget
and
Finance
page
I
urge
you
once
again
to
have
a
look
at
that
budget,
because
that's
how
we're
held
accountable
to
you,
so
a
quick
snapshot
of
the
numbers.
D
So
far,
we've
got
paid
attendance
of
about
1200,
which
is
just
40
fewer
than
projected.
So
this
meeting
is
looking
better
than
the
last
couple.
We
have
418
remote
participants
registered,
however,
and
that
that
is
changing
you
know
fairly
rapidly,
which
has
some
implications
for
our
budget
as
well,
because
we
have
to
support
all
of
that.
There
were
two
hundred
and
thirteen
letters
issued
visa
letters,
so
we've
got
some
registration
revenues
and
sponsorship
revenues
there
I
don't
think
any
of
this
is
final.
Usually
this
there's
some.
You
know
final
adjustment.
D
That
happens,
but
these
are
pretty
close.
So
you
know
these
are
the
numbers
right
now.
So
thanks
very
much
for
this.
There
are
some
additional
materials
at
the
end
of
this
slide
deck
that
you
can
download
online
if
you
want,
but
I'll
stop
talking,
so
that
we
can
get
on
to
the
interesting
things
in
this
meeting.
Thanks
very
much.
E
Hello
I
think
people
know
who
I
am
and
I
want
people
to
know
more
about
what
the
I
RTF
is
as
well,
but
I'm
Allison
Lincoln.
This
is
you've,
seen
this
mission
statement
before
in
others
of
these
plenaries,
but
we
have
a
parallel
organization
of
research
groups
that
do
work.
That's
forward
out
ahead
of
what
is
reasonable
to
standardize
and
the
goal
is
to
strongly
have
a
close
tie
between
them
to
make
this
a
great,
a
great
place
for
new
and
innovative
thinkers
to
bring
work
that
can
then
become
applied.
E
This
is
a
list
of
all
the
research
groups
and
I
just
want
to
mention
that
they
are
continuing
to
meet
avidly
here
and
so
I
think.
There's
a
lot
of
it.
There
seems
to
be
a
lot
of
bringing
together
of
people
who
are
researchers
with
people
who
have
been
more
traditionally
not
researchers,
and
we
have
a
method
of
something
called
proposed.
Research
groups
where
you
can
meet
quite
freely.
If
you
have
a
good
idea
for
three
meetings
and
then
will
be,
will
decide
that
that's
actually
progressing.
E
It
is
going
to
be
useful,
so
we
have
two
of
those
at
the
moment
path.
Aware:
networking
and
the
decentralized
Internet
infrastructure
group
that
are
are
moving
along
in
that
process
and,
in
fact,
path
aware
had
its
third
meeting
yesterday
and
the
room
was
strongly
in
support
of
it.
Moving
forward
and
I
think
that
will
happen
another
bit
of
news
tonight.
The
technical
plenary
is
partly
brought
to
you
by
the
IRT
F,
because
it's
its
co-organized
by
the
the
IV's
committee
and
by
the
Gaia
global
access
to
the
Internet
for
all
research
group.
E
So
they're,
the
only
one-
that's
actually
not
meeting
here,
because
they'll
be
meeting
at
a
conference
and
anti-b
and
then
we've
started
initial
discussion
because
of
some
wonderful
advocates
for
it
for
a
quantum
internet
research
group
and
the
room
there,
we
didn't
actually
take
a
hum
I
I,
don't
know
what
a
quantum
hum
would
be
like,
but
we
did
actually
ask
about.
We
got
some
comments
about
the
fact
that
this
might
actually
be
timely.
E
Now,
there's
a
lot
of
likelihood
that
protocols
will
be
developed
to
manage
this
really
cool
low
layer
that
can
do
quantum
entanglement
and
those
protocols
could
be
developed
by
not
us
if
we
don't
take
action,
so
keep
your
eye
on
that
join
this
mailing
list,
which
is
currently
called
quark
q,
ir
g
and
c.
That's
very
interesting,
and
also
eventually
we
I've
set
make
this
joke.
So
he
knows.
Probably
people
have
already
heard
it
from
me
somewhere,
but
you'll
eventually
have
to
call
yourselves
the
classic
IETF
and
loss
of
the
quantum
IETF
classical
IETF.
E
I've
also
want
to
mentioned
that
we
have
a
yearly
workshop,
which
intends
to
slightly
formalize
how
we
do
research
being
brought
together
with
with
protocols
and
the
submission
date
is,
is
April
20th.
So
it's
it's
still
in
time.
For
you
to
do
your
submission,
you
can
either
submit
a
paper
that
was
published
in
the
last
year
or
a
short
new
paper
that
would
be
sort
of
like
a
lightning
talk
and
it
will
take
place
in
Montreal
at
the
next
meeting.
E
E
We're
still
I
need
to
have
a
conversation
with
Beyonce
about
the
way
that
and
team
about
the
way
that
we're
going
to
handle
the
registration
fees,
but
but
the
goal
is
again
to
bring
the
people
together
and
we'd
like
for
people
to
stay
and
go
to
our
g's
and
working
groups
now
that
there
so
people
have
never
come.
We
have
quite
a
few
people
who
are
new
attendees,
who
are
here
because
of
the
IRT
F
and
then
learned
something
about
many
of
the
speakers
were
or
new
attendees
I
should
probably
start
tracking.
E
That,
and
the
other
thing
we'll
do
is
we'll
have
topical
blocks
so
that
sono
research
groups
will
meet
that
day,
but
also
will
make
it
so
that
it'll
be
easier
for
the
ietf
areas
to
say
most
of
the
routing
things
are
there
so
I'll
try
not
to
schedule
routing
things.
Work
and
I'll
have
to
hope
that
this
doesn't
blow
the
minds
of
our
very
wonderful
Secretariat,
as
we
try
to
work
on
this,
but
but
I've
been
active
in
the
scheduling
anyway.
E
So
there's
another
another
note
on
the
relationships
we
have
and
there
should
be
a
good
song
for
this,
but
anyway
we
have.
We
have
many
times
when
I
say:
oh
I
wish
that
people
from
such-and-such
research
group
had
been
here
because
look
at
this
great
stuff
that
is
being
presented,
which
is
from
the
measurement
world,
or
something
like
that.
E
So
I
want
to
advertise
that
yesterday.
For
example,
the
map
RG
had
great
new
Nena
and
analysis
about
about
current
research
working
group
topics,
ipv6
the
HDTV
to
push
quick,
DNS
SEC.
You
get
the
idea
so
corner
me
or
send
me
mail
send
mail
to
the
IR
s
G
about
what
you
think
might
be
useful
in
way
of
ways
that
we
can
help
with
the
interworking.
Here
we
have
another
feature
which
is
a
every
year.
E
We
pick
two
best
papers
at
the
applied
networking
research
prize,
a
NRP
for
each
ITF
and
announced
them
just
before
the
ITF.
We
had
presentations
today
during
the
IRT
F,
open
group
and
I'll
mention
them.
These
are
sponsored
by
Comcast,
NBC,
Universal
and
Internet
Society
and
I'm.
Very
we're
very
grateful
for
that.
The
sponsorship
has
been
in
increased
this
year
and
we're
looking
forward
to
adding
some
ability
to
give
more
people
chances
to
come
back
after
they've
done,
live
these
presentations
and
continue
their
engagement.
E
We
had
the
biggest
set
of
submissions
ever
this
year
and,
as
a
result,
we
could
have
actually
had
ten
or
twelve
of
these
awards,
but
we
don't
really
have
enough
time
to
have
presentations
and
and
finally,
I
RTF
dollar.
Org
is
where
you
can
find
all
of
our
info.
But
if
you
also
go
to
our
Twitter
feed
in
your
taco,
you
can
see
the
Victoria's
picture
of
the
two
and
our
P
folks
that
I
just
posted
today
and
find
out
more
and
I'm
very
happy
to
talk
with
people
or
answer
questions
during
the
open,
mikes.
G
G
G
As
part
of
the
Nam
Nam
Commons
work,
we
also
bring
up
some
areas
of
weaknesses.
These
are
things
that
we
notice
well
we're
doing
going
through
the
NomCom
process,
and
this
is
not
new.
We
brought
up
these
issues
last
year
as
well.
It
still
remains.
These
still
remain
areas
of
concern,
so
some
areas
have
very
small
leadership
rules
and
perhaps
even
smaller
pipelines
of
future
leaders,
the
internet
area
transport
area.
We
just
find
it
difficult
to
get
nominees
there
and
we
would
very
much
encourage
anyone.
G
There's
also
the
obvious
concern
about
employer
support,
and
so
we
are
giving
some
consideration
about
maybe
address
that
about
an
earlier
call
for
nominees
to
give
people
more
time
to
line
up
employer
support
because
it
takes
a
while.
We
understand
that-
and
sometimes,
if
you
don't
get
into
the
process
early
enough,
it's
hard
to
get
feedback
as
well
and
going
to
be
engaged
in
the
the
non-common.
G
So
our
requests
of
the
community
check
your
eligibility
eligibility
to
volunteer
for
the
NomCom
I
think
last
year
we
had
about
125
people,
you
can
check
online
and
you
can
actually
volunteer
for
the
NomCom
just
by
putting
a
checking
the
s
box
on
the
registration
form.
I
think
looks
back
a
year,
so
I
know
that
we
surprised
some
people
last
year
when
we
announced
the
selections
for
the
NomCom
and
some
folks
couldn't
remember
having
actually
volunteering.
So
we
will
work
on
that.
I
Thank
you
very
much
so
I'll
just
introduce
myself
real,
quick
I,
don't
want
to
take
a
lot
of
time:
I'm,
Scott,
Mansfield
I.
Of
course
an
individual
of
representing
the
ietf
community,
but
my
employer
is
Ericsson
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
chance
to
see
who
I
was
and
if
you
have
questions
about
NomCom,
please
come
and
ask
me:
I
would
really
like
to
start
the
process
a
little
bit
earlier
this
year,
so
that
we
can
get
some
more
feedback
and
try
to
get
a
much
bigger
pool.
I
J
Spencer
Dawkins
third
term
area
director
for
Transport
and
I
was
I
was
just
going
to
suggest
to
the
community
that
we
also
remember
the
Oh
No.
Thank
you
all
for
serving
and
thank
you.
The
Mount
comes
for
service
serving
up
a
pretty
impressive
group
of
leadership
over
a
bunch
of
years,
which
I've
had
the
opportunity
to
serve
under
and
serve
with.
It
seems
to
me
that
at
least
a
little
bit
of
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
kind
of
like
the
Kobayashi
Maru
thing
where
it's
like.
J
Basically,
this
is
a
fascinating
problem
to
solve
about
how
we,
how
we
recruit
leadership,
there's
a
couple
of
areas
and
that
there
may
not
be
any
way
to
solve
that
other
than
during
the
james
t.
Kirk
thing
saying
we're
going
to
reprogram
the
simulator
b
and
that's
not
your
problem
to
solve.
Okay,
and
that's
not
the
I
es
cheese
problem
to
solve
for
the
I
Obispo
versus
all
particular.
I
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
I
think
that
that
is
excellent
input
and
what
the
NomCom
can
do
is
continue
to
bring
that
that
message
back
to
to
the
leadership
and
help
foster
the
discussion
because,
like
we
always
say
with
these
non
comms,
it's
it's.
Basically,
you
get
a
big
box,
you
put
it
in
the
middle
of
room,
you
let
the
cat
jump
in
it,
and
then
you
close
the
lid.
I
G
So,
just
a
real,
quick
things.
I
wanted
to
thank
everybody
who
did
volunteer
for
the
NomCom
2017-2018
look
for
scott's
email
shortly,
asking
for
volunteers.
So
if
you
haven't
fallen
tier
previously
on
a
registration
form,
you
can
do
that
by
email
as
well.
I'd
like
to
thank
all
of
those
who
were
nominated
and
accepted
their
nominations.
Obviously,
as
we've
said,
we
need
more
of
you
a
special
thank
you
to
the
secretariat,
who
makes
it
so
easy
for
us
to
have
NomCom
meetings
bomb
comm
sessions
here
at
the
meetings.
G
G
A
Just
want
a
second
that
appreciation
for
the
NomCom
for
for
Peter
and
everyone
else
who
was
on
the
NomCom
last
year.
It's
it's
an
arduous
task,
particularly
in
the
in
the
November
meeting
and
the
fall
and
winter
timeframe,
and
those
who
volunteer
I
think
deserve
special
recognition
from
us
for
their
willingness
to
commit
the
time
and
energy
that
it
takes
to
help
us
find
the
next
generation
of
leaders
for
the
ITF.
So
big
thanks
to
all
of
you
and
to
Scott
for
being
willing
to
Shepherd
it
this
year.
So.
K
I'm
Kathy
Brown,
and
it
is
that
time
of
year
again
that's
my
great
pleasure
to
introduce
and
that
the
pastel
wore
to
those
who
don't
know
John
pastel
was
in
the
center
of
the
the
internet.
You
can
see
by
the
relationships
almost
everything
some
of
us
all
of
us
are
doing.
He
was
there
at
the
beginning.
K
There
are
some
makes
a
fabulous
recognition
here
on
this
list
of
people.
I
know
in
the
last
four
years
that
I've
had
the
privilege
to
be
involved.
This
community
has
nominated
and
then
selected.
Some
incredible
contributors
and
I
have
noted
that
the
delight
the
delay,
those
who
win
is
quite
authentic,
real
and
they
feel
quite
privileged
to
have
received
it.
So
I'm
asking
you
to
think
about
the
nominations
for
this
year.
K
Here
are
the
criteria
for
the
award
for
those
who
might
ask
the
leadership
award
committee
is
actually
the
past
recipients,
they
appreciate
a
good
list
and
that
list
mostly
comes
from
you
all.
There
is
a
obviously
a
a
crystal
trophy
and
and
a
dollar
award,
but
it
is
really
the
honor
of
receiving
it.
The
nominations
opened
today
they
will
close
May
the
second
and
you
can
do
your
nominations
at
this
website.
L
K
N
O
Okay,
well,
these
two
people
are
currently
in
the
routing
area
and
as
chairs
their
influences
extended
way
past
the
Browning
area
and
I'm
sure
you
all
are
very
familiar
with
them.
The
first
one
is
George
swallow.
We
want
to
thank
him
for
all
his
contributions
and
best
wishes
for
his
retirement.
He
has
been
chair
of
them
he'll,
it's
working
group
for
more
than
20
years.
O
That
means
going
on
21
plus
now
you're,
our
third
more
than
40
RFC's,
the
our
third,
the
first
RFC
on
RSVP
traffic
engineering
and
also
many
have
pointed
to
me
that
his
LSP
ping
has
also
been
one
of
the
most
famous
of
his
accomplishments.
And
yes,
as
they
say,
it's
we
still
put
up
and
he's
mentored
many
ihe
efforts
throughout
his
time
with
us,
including
myself,
so
George.
Would
you
like
to
stand
up,
would
give
you
a
hand.
O
She
has
I've
heard
held
the
most
leadership
positions
in
I,
Triple,
E
of
any
person,
so
last
week
or
the
week
before
they
really
honored
her
there
and
we
are
honoring
her
here.
Her
first
idea
for
Tennant
we
estimated
IETF
50
and
she
most
instrumentally
helped
us
form
our
IETF
I
Triple
E
802
Committee
coordination
group,
which
has
really
helped
or
relationships
and
currently
she's
the
dead
networking
group
chair
of
Pat.
A
So
next
we're
gonna
recognize
our
outgoing
iesg
members,
so
we
have
three
people
rotating
off
this
year.
First
alia,
atlas
from
the
routing
area
alia
has
been
a
persistent
voice
on
the
iesg,
at
least
in
my
experience,
keeping
us
honest
as
far
as
the
way
that
we
operate
the
way
that
we
try
to
shepherd
work
and
steer
the
community
in
order
to
make
sure
that
our
process
is
open
to
as
wide
a
variety
of
voices
and
interests
and
individuals
as
possible
and
I.
A
A
A
So
next
we
have
been
long
plays,
he's
been
that
one
of
the
oxen
management,
a
DS
so
on
Sunday
I,
think
it
was
the
Sunday
IHG
meeting
this
week.
Benoit
put
his
hand
up
to
speak
on
some
topic:
I,
don't
even
I.
Don't
remember
the
exact
agenda
item
that
we
had
in
the
is
she's
on
Sunday
morning
meeting
and
on
Jabra.
One
of
the
other
area
directors
immediately
wrote
to
me
and
said:
what
do
you
want
to
bet?
He
mentions
Yang
and
the
crazy
thing
is
he
didn't?
It
was
crazy.
A
A
And
finally,
we
have
Kathleen
Moriarty
this
who
will
be
rotating
off
as
well
from
the
security
area.
Kathleen
has
been
a
stalwart
colleague
of
mine.
Personally,
I
would
say
we
joined
around
the
same
time
has
really
brought
a
view
from
the
operational
security
community
into
the
IETF
itself
and
on
to
the
isg
that
I
think
didn't
really
exist
in
its
in
its
current
form
before,
and
that
has
I
think
enlightened.
A
All
of
us
into
many
of
the
aspects
that
were
not
often
considered
in
protocol
development
in
the
IETF
as
recently
as
four
or
five
years
ago,
and
so
I
think
she
I
hope
she
will
continue
to
provide
that
perspective
in
her
future
endeavors
and
as
an
individual
participant,
and
that
we
will
continue
to
carry
that
work
forward
as
we
transition
to
the
new
iesg
now
Kathleen,
we
dug
since
we,
you
know,
had
to
go
with
either
ponies
or
unicorns.
We
got
you
a
unicorn,
because
you
know
security
area,
but.
A
C
C
A
A
J
J
And
for
each
of
them,
we've
developed
an
architecture
tester
so
that
they
can
go
out
into
the
world
and
continue
to
serve
the
Internet.
This
particular
one,
which
is
a
dev
device,
triple
zero
to
make
sure
that
the
network
is
connected
to
is
ipv6
capable,
has
no
Nats
on
it
and
traverses
with
absolutely
no
interference.
So
please
take
it
with
you
and
make
sure
that
you
use
it
well.
J
Joe's
service
to
the
IAB
started
at
the
same
time
as
mine
and
I'm
desperately
sorry
to
lose
him
as
a
colleague
because
he
helped
me
birth.
So
many
bad
ideas
and
I
even
helped
him
birth,
one
or
two.
The
the
one
thing
I
really
want
us
to
focus
on
from
from
Joe's
service,
in
addition
to
his
tremendous
knowledge
of
both
modern
development
practices
and
how
middleboxes
work
and
how
the
web
works
is
his
insistence
that
we
think
about
explicitness
in
the
network.
J
J
Don't
see
Neville,
sir,
so
let
me
let
me
tell
you
a
brief
story
before
we
appreciate
him
in
his
absence
and
that
is
Neville
actually
served
a
year
longer
than
he
asked
to
serve.
He
actually
tried
to
retire
last
year
and
Robert
sparks
and
the
rest
of
the
IAB,
basically
through
our
collective
arms,
around
his
knees
and
said
we're
not
ready.
J
Yet
please
wait
and
he
was
kind
enough
to
give
us
an
extra
year
of
his
time
and
attention,
and
this
year
he
spent
a
great
deal
of
time
with
our
incoming
ISE
Adrian
Farrell,
to
bring
him
up
to
speed
and
to
make
sure
that
the
RFC
editor
function
had
no,
no
blip
because
of
any
lack
of
information
being
transmitted.
And
so,
although
he
has
probably
escaped
for
a
very
well
earned
pint
somewhere
I'd
like
you
to
join
me
in
expressing
your.
F
P
Q
Good
evening
and
thank
you
very
much
for
staying,
we
have
three
fabulous
speakers.
I'm
not
gonna,
speak
very
long,
but
what
I
am
gonna
do
is
let
you
know
who
is
up
here
with
me.
We
have
Leandro
Navarro
who's,
a
professor
at
UPC
in
Barcelona,
but
he
also
works
with
we
feed
net,
which
is
a
community
network.
Q
In
Spain
we
have
Steve
song
who,
if
you
haven't
seen
as
many
possibilities
dot
in
that
website,
take
a
look,
don't
crash
it
right
now,
but
he
has
great
mapping
and
he's
one
of
a
fabulous
host
of
humans
that
I
work
with
on
community
networks.
John
brewer
knows
a
lot
about
community
networks
and
a
lot
about
what's
up
in
the
sky
with
satellites.
So
if
you
give
us
one
sec,
we'll
get
started,
I
just
lost
my
phone
and
got
it
back
so
I'm
very
excited.
So.
Q
How
do
these
people
all
weave
together
in
this
network
of
networks,
so
one
on
community
networks
I,
have
the
privilege
to
work
with
people
every
day
who
are
building
networks
from
the
bottom
up
ground
up
community
up?
We
call
it
for
the
community,
with
the
community,
by
the
community,
its
partnering
at
the
local
level,
to
provide
connectivity
where
there
isn't
connectivity,
as
many
of
you
know,
there's.
Q
The
spectrum
cocktail
Steve
will
talk
about
that
and
you'll
see
some
of
the
stories
with
respect
to
infrastructure
gaps
from
his
Maps.
Then
wants
to
move
over
to
John
to
talk
about
the
future
in
the
sky.
Many
of
you
also
know
that,
with
respect
to
spectrum
and
satellites,
you
need
orbital
slots,
something
very
important.
We
don't
do
that
here.
The
ITU
helps
out
with
that,
but
that's
part
of
the
birds
in
the
sky.
Q
So
that's
a
network
architecture
that
meets
spectrum
coos,
the
technical
innovation
and
the
question
is:
is
that
really
going
to
be
the
future
of
connectivity?
So
I
think
satellites
are
almost
as
cool
as
submarine
cables,
but
that
will
be
up
for
you
to
decide.
Each
of
our
speakers
has
12
minutes.
Then
we'll
take
you
a
so
beyond.
Oh
you're,
up
first.
R
Right,
okay,
so
I'm
going
to
start
talking
about
the
local
part
of
of
connectivity,
so
so
this
is
about
community
networks
or
in
other
words
this
is
about
about
everyone,
but
not
everyone
in
the
room,
but
everyone
in
the
world-
and
that
is
not
initially
technical.
It's
about
rights,
human
rights.
So
if
you
look
at
article
19
well
before
the
internet
appeared,
it
says
that
we
have
the
right
to
seek,
receive
and
and
exchange
information
and
ideas
through
any
media.
And
now
we
are
talking
about
the
internet.
R
So
you
don't
know
that
everyone
has
access
to
the
Internet,
but
even
worse,
not
evil.
Everyone
can
provide
it.
So
it
is
quite
diverse.
If
we
look
at
this
map
about
the
world's
population,
you
see
is
quite
diverse
in
density,
if
we
focus
on
the
that
the
part
we
are
like
London
and
and
that
column
we
see
that
Europe
is,
is
well
calculated
as
it
is
most
part
of
Africa,
but
when
we
move
to,
let's
say
the
IPA
space
Europe,
is
there
it's
a
hot
area,
even
the
northern
part,
which
is
not
that
populated?
R
It's
also
well
connected,
but
you
don't
see
Africa
there,
why
I
mean
we,
you
know,
and
it
has
to
do
also
with
any
other
type
of
infrastructure.
So
when
you
look
at
electricity
or
lighting,
you
see
that
Europe
is
bright.
As
what
else
Africa
is
it's
not
so
we
know
there
are
many
obstacles,
but
we
are
aiming
or
I
think
many
of
us
are
aiming
to
what
we
call
it.
Well,
people
call
it
the
universal
service,
so
it
is
the
right
of
having
functional
internet
connection
that
is
affordable
for
those
means.
R
So
the
solution
to
have
sustainable
infrastructure,
sustainable
services.
It
is
a
combination
of
business
models,
diversity,
business
models
and
technology,
diversity
in
technology.
So,
just
looking
quickly
about
what
is
the
distribution
of
offline
population
that
there
is
a
kind
of
market,
a
big
market
in
in
Africa
by
more
than
about
billion
people?
If
you
look
at
the
asian-pacific
2.4
billion,
so
I
think
it
deserves
a
lot
of
attention.
R
Also,
when
you
look
at
at
the
gaps
there
is
in
addition
to
the
geography,
there
is
a
gap
of
gender.
There
is
a
gap
of
income.
There
is
a
cup
of
non-being
in
urban
areas.
There
is
a
gap
of
age,
there
is
a
gap
of
Education,
so
there
are
many
gaps
and
and
well
I
mean
it's
a
challenge
really
to
deliver
in
such
a
diverse
environment.
R
So
how
do
we
offer?
How
do
we
provide
affordability?
Well,
there
is
one
model
we
know.
Is
we
bring
the
connectivity
to
do
them
and
then,
while
they
pay,
if
they
can,
or
the
other
way
is
like
we
try
to
to
help
develop
those
infrastructures
locally
in
an
in
an
bootstrap,
an
economy
in
a
way,
so
the
limb,
farms,
fields
and
less
profitable
places?
R
They
found
out-
oh
my
god,
that
that
is
possible
to
do
to
do
that,
not
at
market
prices,
but
maybe
a
local
provision
and
people
learn,
and
there
are
many
examples
to
learn
how
to
do
it
and
they
created
their
own
infrastructures.
So
that's
what
we
call
community
networks,
I
mean
networks
which
are
we
call
it
crowdsource,
which
are
built
by
citizens
and
by
contribution
and
interconnection,
sounds
like
the
Internet
and
then
so
we
end
up
having
a
shared
networking
infrastructure
and
in
that
infrastructure
is
built
on
anything
anything
that
works.
R
That
is
cheap
enough
that
it's
interoperable
enough
with
the
different
other
components.
So
you
will
see.
Community
networks
are
not
by
far
emojis.
Anything
is
interconnected
and
then
governance
is
quite
open.
It's
like
you
would
see
some
examples
later
or
one
example.
It's
open
to
anyone
it's
cooperative,
sometimes
because
it
is
no
other
way
than
doing
it
at
cost.
There
is
no
margin
for
profit,
initially
at
least
who
invests
anyone.
Anyone
small
investments
together,
make
produce
results
and-
and
of
course,
it's
open
to
anyone.
R
So
openness
in
many
senses
is
critical
for
the
development
of
these
local
infrastructures.
This
is
how,
for
instance,
looks
like
one
of
these
networks
in
a
semi
rural
area
where,
where
you
see
a
lot
of
connections,
a
lot
of
homes
connected
through
Wi-Fi
links,
this
is
part
of
giving
it
which,
in
a
way,
is
a
small
Internet
in
in
in
this
region
of
the
world.
Many
local
networks,
many
groups
they
connect
with
each
other,
and
then
they
share
some
internet
connection.
All
these
islands
are
not
in
many
cases,
are
not
interconnected
among
themselves.
R
They
just
belong
to
a
community
that
have
common
governance
principles,
so
they
they
are
not
alike
like
a
restaurant
model.
I
we
call
it
like
I
it's
not
that
you
have
to
go
to
a
license
place
to
get
connectivity.
Of
course,
that
is
a
operator
model,
but
it's
more
like
a
homemade
home,
cooked
connectivity
produced
by
by
volunteers
that
becomes
sometimes
operators
has
more
craters
by
it,
based
mostly
on
five
on
Wi-Fi
nowadays
also
including
fiber,
and
they
learn
how
to
organize
and
grow
themselves
and
they've
created
like
an
optical
backbone.
R
They
share
a
number
of
internet
connections.
There
are
very
successful
lean
in
traffic
and
interconnection
with
the
local
exchange
so,
and
this
is
only
like
in
about
1213
years,
the
governance
of
many
of
these
community
networks
are
hundreds
around
the
world.
They
are
typically
based
on
on
the
idea
of
a
common
sort
of
an
infrastructure
Commons
similar
to
Fisheries
for
community
forests.
I
mean
it's
an
old
model
formalized
by
Ellen
rostrum
on
old
price
of
economy
and
and,
of
course,
the
objective
of
these
initiatives.
R
It's
about
sustainability,
mainly
which
is
they
call
it
avoiding
the
tragedy
of
the
Commons
and
ensure
that
everyone
has
an
opportunity
to
expand
the
network
and
use
the
network,
and
everyone
means
not
only
citizens
but
also
professionals,
small
companies,
private
public
organizations
that
benefit
from
that
infrastructure
in
that
place.
So
so
you
know
if
we
want
to
address
a
problem
of
the
deciphers
needs
of
the
unconnected.
R
There
must
be
multiple
myths
and
smokers,
probably
adapted
to
different
local
conditions.
We
know
the
large
operators,
we
know
the
wisps,
we
know
Frances
community
networks
and
then
they
defer
in
in
many
aspects,
which
is
good.
So
you
can,
you
can
find
an
optimal
solution
and
also
the
we
have
to
be
careful,
because
technologies
usually
come
already
with
some
business
models,
think
about
GSM
or
5g.
They
they
have
the
operator
model
behind,
but
also
there
are
more
decentralized
technologies
like
Wi-Fi
manage
Bitcoin
all
that
stuff
which
allow
these
kind
of
initiatives.
R
And,
of
course,
all
these,
all
these
models
are
supported
by
the
idea
of
infrastructure
sharing,
which
makes
things
more
complicated,
but
that's
costly
and
open
access
networks
have
useful
internet
exchanges
are
useful.
Even
some
community
nethers
become
become
that
in
along
the
growth
so
related
to
our
IETF
community.
R
R
There
are
a
lot
of
like
expansions
towards
like
creating
originally
internet
exchange,
about
experimenting
with
network
virtualization,
anything
and
also
in
the
economic
model,
because
this
base
not
on
a
centralized
authority
but
on
on
a
compensation
system.
We
call
it
that
we
compensate
consumption
and
contribution
incentives
and
now
they
are
exploring
for
years
the
idea
of
blockchain
crypto
coins
as
a
way
to
decentralize
that
so.
R
R
Cooperation
is
the
basis
to
construct
these
infrastructures
there,
not
a
single
one
can
build.
A
lot
of
lessons
learned
from
community
net
was
not
just
in
bring
it
in
connectivity,
but
also
bring
in
development
building
business
models,
bringing
income,
bringing
jobs,
bringing
local
resilience
to
the
digital
infrastructure
of
many
communities.
R
We
need
standards,
we
need
interoperability,
we
need
commodity
components.
We
need
ways
to
incrementally
upgrade
the
networks.
We
need
to
decentralize
all
the
aspects,
and
my
point
is
that
I
think
that
connect,
if
for
the
next
50
percent
of
the
global
population,
will
come
bottom
up
and
and
that's
a
hot
topic
of
the
gaia
working
group.
So
you
are
welcome
to
come
tomorrow
to
discuss
the
details.
Okay,
thank
you.
S
Good
evening
my
name
is
Steve
song
I
work
with
the
network,
startup
Resource
Center,
on
on
increasing
access
to
wireless
spectrum,
I'm
also
a
senior
fellow
with
the
Mozilla
Foundation
digital
access
and
inclusion
that
I'd
like
to
apologize
in
advance
for
the
title
of
my
slide.
Opening
I
don't
really
know
how
to
connect
everyone,
but
I
do
have
some
ideas
about
how
how
we
could
improve
things
I'm,
the
guy
you
see
on
the
right-hand
side.
In
that
slide,
his
name
is
Peter
Blume.
S
In
case
you
don't
know
it's
the
kind
of
global
shindig
for
mobile
network
operators
and
he
came
back
from
it
and
he
said
to
me
he
said
Steve,
you
know,
I
get
the
feeling
that
people
care
more
about
connecting
refrigerators
to
the
internet
than
they
do
about
connecting
the
poor
and
I
and
I
think
this
is
actually
true.
I
mean
if
you
look
for
a
conference
on
the
Internet
of
Things
I
mean
you
probably
go
around
the
corner.
S
I
mean
you
go
to
one
every
week
for
the
for
the
rest
of
the
year,
not
run
out,
whereas
trying
to
find
people
to
talk
about
connecting
that.
Those
who
can't
afford
the
internet
or
or
where
the
internet
doesn't
exist,
that's
a
lot
thinner
on
the
ground
and,
and
that
matters
and
and
the
reason
it
matters
is
because
of
this
I
mean
the
internet
is
in
mutant
superpower,
I.
T
S
Is
there
anyone
who
doesn't
feel
like
the
Internet
is
a
mutant
superpower?
I
mean
it
hasn't
been
like
just
profoundly
changed
by
the
way
the
internet
sort
of
enables
you
to
to
learn
to
manifest
things
in
the
world
to
connect
with
people?
It's
incredible,
as
we
were
discussing
at
lunch
today,
it's
not
always
a
good
evening
superpower,
but
it
is
indeed
a
superpower.
S
You
would
not
want
to
be
without,
and
the
problem
then,
is
that
for
those
without
access,
they're
moving
backwards,
only
by
standing
still
as
the
Internet
becomes
a
more
and
more
valuable
resource,
and
so
by
not
focusing
on
connecting
the
unconnected,
we're
creating
an
increasingly
large
digital
divide,
and
this
this
is
not
okay.
At
least
it's
not
okay.
For
me,
and
so
most
of
my
work
is
in
sub-saharan
Africa,
so
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
about
the
sort
of
technological
development
of
access
and
I'm
I'll
start
here.
S
This
was
2005
and
The
Economist
had
worked
out
that
mobile
phones
were
actually
going
to
be
the
big
thing
in
terms
of
access,
and
indeed
you
know,
even
in
2005,
we
had
no
idea
just
how
important
mobile
phones
were
going
to
be
in
terms
of
connecting
the
those
without
access,
and
that
was
before
before
you
could
actually
get
the
the
internet
on
mobile
phones,
and
there
was
a
general
perception
I
think
it
persists.
Now
they
basically
the
problem
solved
right.
S
Mobile
phones
are
just
going
to
sort
of
eventually
connect
everyone,
but
the
reality
isn't
actually
like
that.
Subscriber
penetration
is
now
tapering
off
and
the
business
models
for
the
large
operators
simply
don't
make
it
into
sparsely
populated
rural
areas.
We
we
actually
need
something
different
and
before
I
talk
about
that.
S
I
want
to
talk
about
one
other
technology
that
doesn't
get
talked
about
as
much
as
as
as
mobile
networks
or
mobile
telephones,
but
I
think
it's
a
technology
that
is
having
this
big,
an
impact
in
sub-saharan
Africa
as
mobile
phones
themselves,
unless
fiber-optic
networks
so
10
years
ago
there
was
effectively
no
fiber-optic
undersea
cables
reaching
sub-saharan
Africa.
Well.
S
Technically
there
was
one,
but
it
was
controlled
by
a
cartel
and
it
was
more
expensive
than
the
satellite,
so
we'll
just
say
no,
but
and
and
fast
forward
to
2018,
and
there
were,
over
a
dozen
high-capacity
undersea
cables,
reaching
sub-saharan
African
countries
with
six
more
and
in
the
next
couple
of
years,
and
for
me
this
is
staggering.
I
would
never
projected
this
level
of
investment
and,
of
course,
that
investment
sparked
a
tsunami
of
investment
in
turn,
terrestrial
fiber
infrastructure.
S
Now,
to
the
extent
that
primary
and
secondary
cities
across
the
continent
have
access
to
fiber
optic
infrastructure,
which
is
amazing
because
once
you're
on
fiber,
you
are
on
a
milliseconds
from
the
living
eating
heart
of
the
internet,
but
the
challenge
then
becomes
how
do
we
actually
get
from
those
fiber
points
of
presents
out
to
reach
everyone
and
that
that
answer
lies
in
wireless
spectrum
and,
of
course,
we've
all
seen
headlines
like
this?
You
know
the
spectrum
crunch
cometh,
the
axis.
The
spectrum
has
become
a
real
issue.
S
It's
part
it
partly
a
real
issue
simply
because
of
the
pace
of
technological
change,
that
the
regulation
simply
isn't.
Keeping
up
with
technological
change
and
I'll
give
an
example
of
this.
This
was
a
decision
taken
in
2006
among
African
countries
to
make
a
transition
from
analogue
terrestrial
broadcasting
to
digital
terrestrial
broadcasting,
and
it
was
projected
it
would
take
about
10
or
11
years,
which
is
pretty
speedy
by
regulatory
standards
for
the
reef
farming
of
spectrum,
and
mostly
it
hasn't
quite
kept
up
with
that.
It's
it's!
It's
not
done
yet.
S
But
what
is
interesting
is
what
2006
did
not
know
about
the
future.
It
didn't
know
about
the
smartphone
which
was
going
to
be
introduced
in
the
next
year.
Actually,
it
didn't
know
about
Netflix,
but
the
prime
means
of
delivery
of
Netflix
in
2006
was
the
US
Postal
Service
and
it
didn't
know
about
tablets
and
the
confluence
of
those
things
streaming
media
on
tablets.
So,
while
this
decision
is
chugging
along
technologies,
just
blew
right
past
it
in
terms
of
the
delivery
of
media,
and
this
is
going
to
happen
more
and
more.
S
We
need
regulations
that
can
cope
with
the
pace
of
technological
change
and
we
need
access
to
spectrum,
and
so,
as
demand
has
exceeded
the
administrative
available
availability
of
spectrum,
we
needed
a
model
for
making
spectrum
available
and
the
dominant
model
is
now
the
spectrum
auction
which
the
colonists
tell
us,
is
the
fairest
way
of
making
spectrum
available,
because
those
who
value
it
are
willing
to
pay
the
most
for
it,
but
it
becomes
problematic,
especially
in
poor
countries.
Now
these
are
some
spectrum
auctions
in
the
last
four
or
five
years
across
a
number
of
African
countries.
S
So
much
you
can
see
they're
near
the
price
pay
paid
for
a
perspective.
Is
you
know,
between
twenty-five
and
a
hundred
million
dollars?
But
that's
this
is
successful.
Bidders
for
that
spectrum,
we're
a
maximum
of
one
and
that's
typically,
the
largest
mobile
network
operator
or
the
incumbent
who
got
access
to
that
spectrum
or
in
fact
sometimes
it's
none,
because
the
actual
price
floor
in
the
spectrum
is
so
high
and
what
happens
when
the
price
floor
is
that
high
a
you?
S
But
this
is
the
future
we
are
promised.
This
is
a
right
now
in
the
UK
there's
an
auction
going
on
for
four
5g
spectrum
and
that
mobile
networks
will
will
will
solve
all
these
problems
by
rolling
out
everywhere.
But
in
fact
this
is
not
going
to
lead
to
increased
rollout
into
poor,
sparsely
populated
rural
areas,
because
this
model
doesn't
incentivize
anyone
to
do
that
and
then
there's
another
piece
of
spectrum:
a
tiny
unloved
corner
of
the
spectrum
band.
The
is
M
bands
and
Wi-Fi,
which
I
mean
I,
think
we
all
know
and
love.
S
But
the
meteoric
rise
of
Wi-Fi
technology,
in
terms
of
its
pervasiveness
and
embeddedness
in
everything,
is
absolutely
phenomenal
and
doesn't
get
sufficient
back
to
get
recognition
by
regulators
in
terms
of
its
impact,
and
it's
not
just
Wi-Fi
in
you
know:
Heathrow
Airport,
in
this
hotel
across
the
African
continent,
there
has
been
in
the
last
two
to
three
years.
A
spectacular
rollout
of
Wi-Fi,
enabled
networks
and
those
models
are
some
are
community
led
models?
S
Some
are
government
led
models,
some
are
commercial
models,
but
it
happens
because
the
technology
is
cheap
and
powerful
and
because
you
don't
require
a
license,
the
barrier
to
actually
rolling
out
rolling
it
out
is
very,
very
low.
So
you
have
you
know
and
and
the
way
on
it
the
way
I
sort
of
think
about
it
is
you
know
if
you've
seen
the
movie
Aladdin,
you
know
in
there
and
the
genie
describing
himself.
You
know
phenomenal
powers,
maybe
living
space.
You
know
and
that's
so
that's
the
tiny
amount
of
spectrum
that
is
available
for
for
Wi-Fi.
S
It
is
quite
small
compared
to
the
rest
of
the
available
spectrum.
One
of
the
things
we
could
do
is
simply
expand.
That
those
is
M
bands
a
little,
especially
in
five
gigahertz.
Just
by
expanding
those
is
M
bands.
We
can
increase
the
amount
of
innovation
that
goes
on
by
community
networks
like
effets
net,
but
it
doesn't
stop
there
because
there's
a
host
of
new
companies
out
there,
building
incredibly
inexpensive
power
technology,
inexpensive,
low
power
and
low-cost
technologies
and
those
might
be
in
dynamic
spectrum
like
TV
white
space
technologies.
S
They
might
be
in
a
new
generation
of
fat
at
LTE
base
stations.
But
you
know,
what's
the
point
of
having
a
$3,000
LT
base
station,
if
you
pay
twenty
five
million
dollars
for
your
spectrum
right,
it's
ROS,
the
entire
sort
of
you
know:
affordable
access
to
the
business
model
off,
so
we
need
new
models.
I
mean
our
current
regulatory
frameworks
for
photo
for
spectral
a
bit
like
a
19th
century
hotel.
You
know
where
von
Sternberg
has
his
room
reserved
whether
he's
traveling
or
not.
S
You
know,
and
many
of
the
rooms
are
empty
and
it's
just
not
an
efficient
way
of
making
things
happen,
and
one
thing
we
know
about
software
is
is
very
good
at
resource
management.
So
a
more
Airbnb
style
approach
to
the
allocation
of
spectrum
might
serve
us
better
and
not
just
for
spectrum.
That's
that's
been
unassigned,
but
even
spectrum
that's
been
been
assigned
to
operators
where
they
aren't
using
it.
S
Perhaps
they
can
get
a
rebate
on
their
Universal
service
obligations
by
allowing
other
people
to
use
that
spectrum,
so
the
way
I,
think
of
it
and
I'm
trying
out
a
new
metaphor,
so
bear
with
me.
It's
like
a
jar
filled
with
these
large
rocks.
You
know
and
and
that's
their
current
regulatory
regime
is
just
we
have
a
job
we
have.
We
have
large
rocks,
we
have
the
jar,
but
it
doesn't,
though,
jar
looks
for
the
full,
but
it's
not
it's.
S
U
U
We
need
to
understand
a
bit
of
language,
so
first
we're
going
to
start
to
talk
about
why
we
need
satellite,
then
I'm
gonna,
introduce
you
to
the
three
main
orbits
and
they're
Layton
sees
of
satellite
networks,
we're
going
to
talk
a
lot
about
radio
spectrum,
we're
going
to
talk
briefly
about
satellite
architectures
and
I'm,
going
to
take
you
through
three
new
commercial
ventures
so,
first
off
why
we
need
satellite.
This
is
pretty
easy.
This
is
a
chart
of
the
cost
and
relative
cost
and
complexity
of
various
technologies.
U
Servicing
broadband
access
with
population
density
along
the
x-axis
once
you
get
to
ten
or
fewer
people
per
square
kilometer
satellite
is
less
costly
and
less
complex
than
any
other
access
method.
I've
adapted
this
chart
from
a
communications
research
Canada
chart
they
submitted
to
the
802
22
working
group
about
15
years
ago.
It's
an
amazing
chart,
though,
and
it
holds
true
today,
so
we're
gonna
get
into
the
orbits
and
latency
here.
U
I've
got
a
scale
drawing
here
of
the
earth,
with
the
three
main
orbits
will
talk
about
low
Earth
orbit,
léo
medium
Earth
orbit,
Leo
and
geo
geosynchronous
orbit.
We've
got
Leo
down
there
at
about
a
thousand
kilometers
above
the
earth.
Give
or
take
a
few
hundred.
We've
got
mio
at
ten
thousand
k's
give
or
take
a
few
thousand,
and
we've
got
geo
sitting
about
thirty.
U
Six
thousand
kilometers
above
our
heads,
I've
got
Layton
sees
down
there,
and
these
latencies
are
actually
for
one-way
trips
put
together
because
when
you're
sitting
at
a
computer
on
a
satellite
terminal
sending
a
request
up
to
the
satellite,
it's
going
down
to
her
station,
it's
going
out
to
the
internet,
fetching
your
data
coming
back
to
the
earth
station
going
up
to
the
satellite
down
to
your
terminal.
So
these
are
the
latencies
before
you
hit.
U
The
internet
best
case
in
leo
is
going
to
be
about
12
milliseconds,
that's
imperceptible,
neo,
120,
milliseconds,
still
pretty
much
imperceptible
and
you
at
480,
milliseconds,
yeah,
that's
gonna,
be
perceptible,
and
so
I've
got
this
little
curve.
This
funny
bunch
of
dots
there
in
the
middle
and
that's
actually
a
about
40
million
samples
from
of
human
reaction
time,
where
people
have
sat
in
front
of
a
computer
and
they've
looked
at
an
image
flash
up
and
they've
clicked
on
it.
U
Basically,
this
shows
that
about
half
of
all
people
are
going
to
perceive
something
as
being
slow
if
it's
slower
than
270
milliseconds.
So
very,
very,
very
few
people
are
going
to
notice
a
latency
of
120
milliseconds.
Everybody
is
going
to
notice
a
latency
of
480
milliseconds.
That's
before
you
get
your
webpage,
so
the
perception
of
satellite
to
date
has
been,
oh
god,
it's
slow
and
yeah.
That's
gonna!
Keep
going
for
a
bit
with
some
technologies
now
introduce
you
to
the
spectrum.
U
Here
are
three
terms:
I
want
you
to
know
in
spectrum,
our
c-band
K
event
and
ka
band.
I've
got
a
little
note
down
at
the
bottom,
about
L
band
and
V
band,
which
are
also
satellite
technologies,
but
they're
not
really
used
for
broadband
access.
Steve
was
talking
about
the
small
amount
of
Wi-Fi
spectrum.
Yeah
I've
got
that
in
blue
down
there
at
the
bottom
and
then
I've
also
got
the
2g
3G
4G
bands
in
orange.
U
Still
a
very
tiny
amount
of
radio
spectrum
C
band
is
is
the
smallest
of
the
broadband
satellite
bands
and
it's
got
a
couple
of
holes
in
it
because
of
Wi-Fi,
but
there's
still
a
bit
of
spectrum.
There
see
van
kayuu
band
starts
in
about
12.
Gigahertz
goes
up
to
about
18
gigahertz
and
there's
a
bit
of
interference
from
microwave,
linking
and
other
technologies
there,
but
at
least
in
New
Zealand
we're
starting
to
shift
shift
some
some
microwave
services
out
of
that
band
and
freeing
it
up
for
satellite.
U
That
ka
man
starts
at
about
26
gigahertz
and
goes
up
to
40
and
there's
no
a
lot
going
on
there,
a
little
bit
of
microwave
linking
a
little
bit
of
lmds,
which
never
went
anywhere.
So
it's
pretty
clean,
pretty
empty
huge
amounts
of
spectrum
and
ka
quite
a
bit
and
K
you
not
very
much
in
C
man,
a
quick
primer
on
satellite
spectrum.
We've
got
four
things
that
we
think
about
for
spectrum.
We
think
about
available.
We
use
antenna,
sizes
and
rain
fate
and
Steve
man
very
little
spectrum
ka-band.
U
Quite
a
lot
reuse,
which
we'll
talk
about
in
the
next
slide.
We've
got
very
low,
Reeves
in
seam
and
very
high
reefs
and
ka-band
antenna
size,
pretty
obvious
huge
antennas
for
cement,
tiny
antennas
for
K
a
band
and
then
rain
fade.
Very
little
rain
fade
in
see
quite
a
bit
in
ka
band.
I'll
quantify
that
in
a
few
slides.
First
off
we've
got
reusability,
so
reusability
is
a
function
of
the
frequency,
the
size
of
the
waves,
little
waves
spread
less
and
also
the
distance
away
from
Earth.
U
So
your
low
Earth
orbit
satellites
are
going
to
have
better
reusability
of
spectrum
than
your
geo
satellites
just
because
the
spot
beam
has
less
time
to
spray
it
with
seaman
spectrum.
Imagining
we're
at
a
geostationary
satellite
orbit.
Now
36,000
Kay's
up,
you
may
get
a
sieve
and
channel
covering
about
half
of
Australia
I
made
this
slide
for
the
AWS
nog
meeting.
So
it's
Australia,
okay,
you
Bend
you're
gonna,
get
about
four
spots
of
the
same
of
the
same
channel.
U
You're
gonna
get
to
reuse
the
same
channel
about
four
times
in
the
same
area
as
you
would.
A
single
sieve
and
channel
and
kmn
is
16
to
20
times.
So
you
get
an
amazing
amount
of
reuse
from
Kay
event
from
Kay
event.
Now
about
those
antenna
things
well,
an
antenna
basically
focuses
energy,
focuses
radio,
energy,
it
doesn't
make
more
energy,
but
to
focus
a
1
watt
of
radio
energy
in
C
band.
You'd
need
a
1.2
meter
dish
in
K,
you
bench
to
focus
the
same
amount
of
energy.
U
You
only
need
six
hundred
mill
dish
and
in
ka
vent.
Three
hundred
mill
dish
we're
talking
a4
sheet
of
paper
compared
to
1.2
meter,
giant
thing
that
acts
as
a
sail
on
the
wind,
so
really
ka
man,
huge
amounts
of
spectrum,
very
small
antennas,
huge
amounts
of
reusability.
It's
like
a
panacea
until
you
get
to
the
rain,
and
I
could
really
just
leave
this
slide
up
here
at
you.
U
Just
believe
me,
but
I
made
a
chart
that
you
can
download
and
look
at
offline
because
it's
a
bit
dense,
but
here
in
the
right
hand,
side
y-axis,
we've
got
drizzle
light
rain,
medium
rain,
heavy
rain,
tropical
downpours
and,
on
the
left
hand,
y-axis.
We've
got
attenuation
in
decibels
per
kilometer
when
you're
going
from
a
satellite
terminal
on
the
ground
to
a
satellite
and
you're
going
straight
up
you're
going
through
a
couple
of
K's
of
rain.
If
you're
going
in
an
angle,
you
may
be
going
through
a
couple
of
more
K's
of
rain.
U
Having
attenuation
of
a
few
decibels
per
kilometer,
you
quickly
lose
your
link.
Budget
and
you've
run
out
a
signal
in
a
medium
rainstorm,
see
man
doesn't
notice.
K
you,
man
doesn't
notice
k
a
van
starts
to
go
away
in
a
heavy
rain,
see
van
doesn't
notice.
K
you
man
starts
to
flicker,
you
might
get
a
bit
packet
loss
k,
a
man
just
goes
away.
U
It
really
just
goes
away
and
in
tropical
downpours,
which
you
know
happen
every
afternoon
for
a
couple
of
minutes
in
those
tropical
places,
your
cave
and
services
just
gone
even
with
several
meter
dish.
So
I've
got
a
straw.
Man
here
for
temperate
climate,
saying,
say:
I've
got
a
1.2
meter
dish
on
my
roof
I
like
1.2,
your
dishes,
they're
nice
and
big.
So
we
might
out
of
a
KA
service,
get
512
megabits
per
second
off
of
one
of
these
new
satellite
services,
but
only
ninety-nine
point:
seven
percent
reliability.
U
There's
a
satellite
company
in
the
Pacific,
actually
selling
ninety-nine
point
seven
percent,
reliability
and
talking
it
up
is
a
big
deal
and
really
the
people
buying.
It
don't
have
any
idea
that
that
means
they're
gonna
drop
out
like
every
single
day
and
they're
just
gonna
hate
it,
because
they're
gonna
lose
a
few
seconds
here
and
there
all
the
time
I
ke
man
same
size,
dish,
64,
Meg's,
99.9
percent,
reliability,
your
seam
and
service.
U
You
may
get
four
and
a
half
or
even
five
nines,
but
you
only
get
16
megabits
per
second,
because
you've
got
less
spectrum
to
work
with
anyway.
A
couple
of
architectures
to
think
about,
because
this
is
sort
of
a
place
where
people
think
about
architecture,
and
this
is
going
to
matter
we've
our
basic
old-school,
VSAT
up
and
down,
and
some
people
take
two
v
sets
it's
a
very
good
idea,
especially
if
they're
pointed
in
different
directions.
You
go
through
different
weather
and
different
directions.
U
You
may
start
to
have
multimodal
configurations
where
you've
got
a
geostationary
primary
service
and
a
lower
thermia
m--
earth,
backup
service
or
the
other
way
around.
You
may
have
a
multimodal
service,
which
does
exist
where
you
have
a
primary
fiber
connection
and
a
backup,
satellite
or
the
other
way
around.
A
couple
of
providers
in
American
Samoa
actually
use
a
satellite
as
their
primary
and
fibers
their
backup,
because
the
fiber
capacity
from
American
Samoa
Hawaii
has
been
full
for
years.
U
When
I
operated,
a
microwave
network
in
Auckland,
I
could
watch
my
23
gig
links
fade
and
I
could
tell
you
exactly
where
the
storm
was
going
across
the
city,
because
Nagios
would
pop
up
alert,
alert,
alert,
alert
and
they
go
back
and
yeah.
That's
how
that's
how
rain
pay
works
so
considering
the
architecture
you're
gonna
have
companies
starting
to
offer
blended
satellite
services,
where
they're
going
to
give
you
connectivity
over
multiple
modes
of
satellite
you're
gonna
have
different
capacities
on
these
connections.
You're
gonna
have
different
levels
of
availability.
You're
gonna
have
different
Layton
sees.
U
You
may
actually
have
rapid
latency
changes
with
some
of
your
services.
How
do
you
make
this
work
heck?
There
were
a
couple
of
research
groups,
I
sat
in
on
yesterday,
where
they're
thinking
about
these
problems
and-
and
they
come
up
with
the
solution,
so
lots
to
think
about
now.
Three
representative
commercial
ventures
here
number
one:
we've
got
NBN
Co,
that's
Australia's
national
broadband
network
company
and
the
one
thing
that
they've
done
right
is
they
bought
a
couple
of
satellites
a
few
years
ago.
U
Everything
else
they've
done
wrong,
but
a
couple
years
ago
the
Australians
in
the
crowd,
know
what
I'm
talking
about
a
couple
years
ago.
They
they
launched
two
Space
Systems
Loral
satellites,
sixty
seven
and
a
half
gigabits
per
second
look
at
the
engineers
in
this
picture
and
look
at
the
size
of
those
dishes
up
there.
This
is
unfolded
and
the
dishes
are
beaming
down.
Anyway.
Each
of
these
satellites
sixty
seven
and
a
half
gigabits
per
second
twenty
five
Meg
down
five
mega
to
end-users
balanced
across
ten
earth
stations.
U
It
is
ka-band,
so
the
people
that
live
in
the
far
top
local
North
Queensland
Darwin.
They
hate
it
because
it
rain
fades
it's
just
awful
for
them,
but
everywhere
else
and
then
the
dry
bits
of
Australia.
They
love
it
because
it's
it's
really
fast,
it's
kind
of
laggy.
They
know
it's
satellite,
but
it's
much
better
than
what
it
was
expected:
lifespan
until
2030
and
NBN
Co
does
expect
to
increase
the
speed
to
end-users
to
50
Meg's
down
in
the
pretty
near
future.
U
Now
you've
got
another
one,
look
at
this
satellite
here
and
look
at
the
people
next
to
it:
sort
of
compare
those
drawings,
yeah.
Okay,
this
one
is
a
mio
satellite
and
it's
operated
by
o3b.
The
first
real
mio
broadband
network
ever
launched
in
2014
their
a
carrier
I
want
to
say
wholesale
only,
but
they
sell
the
oil
rigs
and
cruise
ships
too,
but
they
only
sell
one
product
which
is
big,
fast
fat
access
pipes,
and
you
basically
need
to
be
buying
a
minimum
of
600
megabit
per
second
for
them
to
care
about
you.
U
They
will
take
one
of
those
satellites
and
they'll
beam
it
down
to
you.
These
satellites
was
around
the
earth.
If
you
take
an
O,
3
B
service,
you
actually
need
to
have
two
antennas.
One
of
the
antennas
is
in
service
and
tracking,
a
satellite
as
it
was
across
the
sky,
while
the
other
is
hunting
for
the
next
one
to
come
off
of
horizon.
They
do
the
handover
with
BGP,
which
is
just
bizarre
because
it's
a
bit
slow,
but
it
does
seem
to
work
anyway.
They've
got
144
gigabits
per
second
of
capacity.
U
Online
they've
been
so
popular,
they've
ordered
another
96
gigs
of
capacity.
There
is
ka-band
and
there
is
rain
faith
even
with
people
with
four
meter
dishes.
Hence
the
whole
multiple
terminals
and
fibre
between
them
and
cloud
avoidance.
Don't
try
and
run
this
in
a
tropical
area
with
two
point:
four
meter
satellites:
you
can
ask
solomon
telecom
about
that.
U
If
you
want
okay
last
one
one
web,
this
doesn't
exist
yet
and
really
we
don't
have
any
low
Earth
orbit,
Network
broadband
networks
yet
but
gosh
we
were
about
to
have
three
of
them
and
there
are
a
few
other
people
who
put
into
the
FCC
for
permission
to
launch
these
networks.
One
web
has
gained
a
bunch
of
investment
from
companies
like
Virgin
companies
like
soft
Bank.
Soft
might
put
a
billion
dollars
in
last
year
met
somebody
from
Softbank
last
week
and
they
said
yeah.
U
U
If
there's
a
couple
of
versions
online,
there's
one
I
did
at
18
akin
Taichung
last
year,
one
I
did
in
New
Zealand
last
year.
Fortunately,
the
oz
nog
talk
was
not
recorded
because
I
swore
a
lot
in
it
anyway.
There's
a
Q&A
at
the
end
of
this
and
of
course
you
can
come
up
and
we'll
Heffer
us
all
with
questions
thanks
thanks
for
your
time,
guys.
Q
C
W
You
were
mentioning
many
about
the
software-defined
radio,
but
they
didn't
mention
much
about
spectrum
sharing
and
were
you
have
some
mechanisms
in
order
that
you
can
get
the
dynamically
allocated
spectrum
and
what
is
developing
there?
You
mentioned
a
little
bit
t
vision,
but
they
are
just
no
TV
white
space.
Sorry
TV,
white
space,
yes,
but
I
would
be
really
curious
to
hear
more
because
I
know,
FCC
was
looking
into
that
in
order
to
make
it
the
more
popular
but
I
haven't
followed
up
lately.
Okay,.
S
So
the
the
the
two
interesting
area
is
one
is
TV
white
space
spectrum,
which
has
particular
application
in
sub-saharan
Africa,
because,
although
that
spectrum
is
virtually
unoccupied,
so
there's
hundreds
of
megahertz
of
spectrum
that
could
be
used
and
the
other
interesting
space
is
the
CBR
s
band
in
in
the
u.s.
that
is
being
promoted
by
Google
and
both
are
basically,
the
same
idea
is
using
a
geolocation
database
to
dynamically
assign
spectrum
based
on
an
availability
map.
That's
calculated
on
on
the
terrain
and
and
available
frequencies.
S
But
if
you
were,
if
you
were
thinking
about
spectrum
regulation
from
a
risk
management
point
of
view,
having
a
really
dumb
investments,
you'd
like
put
all
your
eggs
in
in
one
basket
and
dynamic
spectrum
regulation,
is
actually
fantastic,
because
it's
it's
a
secondary
use
of
the
spectrum,
so
you're
not
committing
yourself
to
to
the
spectrum,
use
you're,
just
allowing
it
to
win
if
it
if
it
wins.
So,
the
risk
of
the
regulator
is
very,
very
low,
and-
and
it's
bit
like
Wi-Fi,
you
know-
is
it
that
that
the
opportunity
to
to
succeed
is
there.
S
The
problem
is
that
it
gets
a
lot
of
pushback,
because
it
is
a
potential
game-changer
if,
if
it
takes
off,
and
so
the
mobile
network
operators
actively
discourage
its
use,
the
ITU
for
reasons
which
I
can
only
imagine
is
industry,
influenced
actively
discourage
its
use.
So
this
technology,
which
has
been
available
for
four
years
now,
is
it
lies
unused
and
and
their
manufacturers
waiting
for
a
regulatory
signal
to
you
to
ramp
up.
W
Q
X
U
In
the
longer
version
of
my
talk,
I
discuss
a
few
high
alts
two
platforms,
but
so
far
there
has
not
been
a
lot
of
success.
I
have
watched
the
Loon
project,
which
started
in
New
Zealand
a
few
years
back
quite
closely,
and
they
really
haven't
achieved
the
speeds
to
end-users
or
the
economics
required
to
make
it
a
viable
platform.
Facebook's
Aquila
was
was
great
for
a
while,
until
it
landed
and
Google
had
another
high-altitude
venture
that
they
purchased,
and
that
also
looked
great
and
they
shut
it
down
last
January
and
moved
the
engineers
somewhere
else.
U
Q
U
There
was
a
bit
of
a
scandal.
A
few
weeks
ago,
somebody
launched
some
micro
set,
some
Seattle
startup
launched
some
micro
sets
out
of
India
and
I
mean
these
things
are
working
much
to
the
dismay
of
the
FCC
and
everybody
else
in
the
world.
They
built
something
in
there
a
workshop.
They
launched
it
into
space
illegally
and
they're.
Actually
transmitting
radio
signals
right.
So,
yes,
the
costs
have
gone
down
of
everything,
so
I
think
we're
we're
not
gonna
have
quite
the
collision.
Z
I'm
Mark
Nottingham
John,
you
mentioned
very
briefly
a
satellite
to
sell
about
communication
and
building
mesh
up
in
space,
wondering
if
you
talked
about
the
technology
used
for
that
and
and
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
and
also
giving
us
a
sense
of
you
know.
Where
are
we
gonna
be
at?
Do
you
think
in
three
five
years?
How
many
satellites
you
know
how
pervasive
is
xs+
that
likely
to
be
with
these
newly
networks?
Okay,.
U
At
all,
honestly,
we
are
gonna,
see
some
optical
cross-linking
of
these
satellites
and
there's
actually
a
neo
platform.
That's
well
into
being
funded,
that
is
gonna.
Do
optical
earth
to
space
links
to
there's
gonna
be
a
lot
of
laser
cross-linking.
But
funny
enough,
since
my
talk
at
oz
nog
last
year,
there's
been
a
huge
race
in
the
band
cross-linking
and
a
couple
of
new
the
event
constellations
planned,
basically
just
to
do
cross-linking,
because
V
band
is
useless
for
going
earth
to
space
unless
you're
in
a
desert,
but
out
there
in
the
sky.
AA
Name
is
signature
wells,
Malina,
young
tech,
fellow
from
if
I
would
like
to
ask
about
the
community
networks
because
perhaps
was
very
very
shortly
at
the
time
that
that
give
to
you.
But
what
about
the
certain
certain
proposal
like
Barcelona
Libre,
one
of
salus
Libre?
It
was
a
group
of
like
hackers
of
wifey
that
tried
to
to
provide
this
kind
of
access,
but
but
what
about
the
names
on
this
kind
of
I
I
mean
if
you
know
how
many
are
or
more
that
about
that.
So.
Q
One
thing
I
would
say
is
that
there
is
a
forum
called
battle
mesh,
but
they
do
a
lot
of
hacking
of
mesh
standards
and
if
you
want
more
data,
I
can
give
it
to
you
later
about
that
people
do
get
together
to
hack
some
of
the
technology,
but
I
would
ask
Leandra
there's
a
initiative
among
some
of
the
community
networks
right
now
with
something
called
libre
mesh.
Leaver
router.
Could
you
tell
the
group
about
that.
R
Yeah
the
difference
or
the
defining
factor
about
community
networks
is
not
that
they
just
not
focus
on
getting
the
connectivity,
but
in
finding
other
ways
to
do
it
and
in
develop
software
and
spur
options
so
so
yeah
there
are.
There
are
many
initiatives,
particularly
this
one
that
is
developing
a
new
meta
distribution
for
for
community
networks.
R
It's
called
liberal
mesh
and
that
builds
on
a
lot
of
contributions
from
many
communities
all
over
the
world,
but
I
mean
yeah
yeah
that
does
cement
so
many
groups,
so
many
forums
and
as
I
said,
the
good
thing
is
that
they're
on
the
way
they
are
experimenting
with
technology.
They
are
creating
new
technology,
new
ways
and
sharing
information
in
many
forums
and
and
that's
like
very
promising,
because
I
mean
many
of
the.
For
instance,
many
of
the
mesh
routing
protocols
there
are
nowadays
came
up
with
from
experimentation
and
and
yeah.
R
AB
Q
Y
Q
Were
there
for
another
meeting,
but
we
are
potentially
in
the
gaia
group:
gonna
try
and
put
together
either
an
informational
and
Greg
would
always
keeps
me
straight
on
this.
It's
either
an
informational
or
an
RFC
that
we
could
put
together
a
doc
RFC,
but
an
informational
document
about
community
networks
which
could
include
some
of
the
data
that
APC
is
putting
together,
they're
doing
an
analysis
of
about
60
different
community
networks
around
the
world,
so
stay
tuned,
pardon,
so
we're
gonna
cut
the
lines
we
did
get
the
lines
Brian's
helping
me
here.
AC
AC
Question
for
John
on
the
satellite,
some
track
that,
hopefully
it's
one
that
also
relevant
to
Steve
I'm
kind
of
fascinated
by
these
flat
panel
antennas
on
the
ground
side
and
wondering
if,
by
avoiding
all
the
hardware
and
the
tracking
and
all
that
stuff,
whether
there's
a
with
there
a
game
changer
in
terms
of
the
cost
of
delivering
receiving
and
having
a
satellite
station
on
the
ground
on
account
of
the
different.
The
different
hardware,
just
wondering
if
that's
game,
changer
that
might
sort
of
have
some
impact
on
the
issues
that
Steve
is
raised.
Thanks
I.
U
Have
a
feeling
the
flat-panel
antennas
are
gonna,
be
quite
expensive
to
start
a
lot
more
expensive
than
just
a
stamped
aluminum
dish.
I
will
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
Paul
and
a
panic,
because
it
was
a
panic
and
the
issah
program
who
got
me
researching
networks
in
the
Pacific,
which
is
what
introduced
me
to
all
the
carriers
using
these
new
k-band
technologies
like
Oh,
three
B
and
really
gave
me
a
great
perspective
on
their
problems
with
weather
and
their
problems
with
capacity
and
how
these
things
are
gonna
be
solved
Thanks.
Q
J
M
AJ
It
it's
Pete
Resnick
and
one
that
I
am
hoping.
What
you
say
is:
oh
that's,
the
IAS
G's
problem
ask
them
later
be
prepared.
So
a
few
months
back,
I
sent
the
IAS
G
a
message
asking
about
the
state
of
the
RFC
series,
who
gets
to
be
an
author
who
gets
to
be
a
contributor
who
gets
to
be
on
the
front
page.
AJ
J
K
AG
Many
of
them
do
some
of
them
really
wish
they
didn't
have
to,
and
would
love
it
for
to
be
my
problem,
but
this
is
a
a
stream
by
stream
decision.
Our
guidance
continues
to
be
we'd
rather
see
no
more
than
five
authors,
or,
in
this
case
we're
using
the
term
authors
fairly
broadly.
That
can
also
be
editors,
there's
a
lot
of
logistical
reasons
for
that
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
right
now.
AG
AJ
Let
me
short-circuit
a
little
bit
because
the
question
is:
can
contributors
who
are
not
on
the
author
48,
who
are
not
necessarily
on
the
front
page,
appear
in
the
RFC
editors
index
so
that
they
can
get
credit
in
ways
that
this
community
sometimes
asks
for
credit
for
their
publication?
Because
right
now,
people
in
contributors
do
not,
and
they
are
required
to
both
be
on
the
front
page
and
be
in
all
48
if
they
want
that,
and
if
the
IAS
G
insists
that
for
their
stream.
AJ
AG
AJ
J
U
U
But
maybe
one
on
diversity,
I
mean
it's.
The
topic
we're
talking
about
today
is
an
important
one,
but
hearing
it
from
three
white
guys
is
maybe
not
the
best
way
to
address
it,
as
our
Nigerian
colleague
pointed
out,
as
our
Nigerian
colleague
pointed
out,
there's
some
different
considerations
when
seen
from
different
perspectives
around
the
boat,
and
so
it
would
have
been
nice
we've
seen
some
more
diverse
perspectives
on
a
panel
of
the
South.
Thank.
J
D
Thanks,
my
name
is
Andrew
Sullivan
at
the
DNS
saw
meeting
on
Monday.
There
was
a
an
interesting
talk
by
somebody
about
ways
that
maybe
that
protocol
had
gotten
away
from
us,
and
you
know
it
occurred
to
me
listening
to
it
that
that
this
is
another
one
of
those
protocols
where
we're
always
talking
about
ossification
and
at
the
same
time
it
seems
to
be
growing
mostly
bone.
Spurs
and
I.
AD
Besides
yep
it's
self-evidently
true,
and
we
don't
know
what
to
do
about
it.
I
I
would
welcome
that,
and,
and
now
that
you've
pointed
this
out,
I
can
go
home
and
think
about
it,
some
more
buts,
okay,
so
can
anybody
else,
including
on
the
IAB,
because
I
think
you're,
right
I
think
that
we
have
got
to
come
up
with
some
we've
been
having
that
conversation
about
DNS
and
then
are
probably
other
protocols.
AD
H
AB
AL
Han
Baker
I'd
like
the
IAB,
to
further
consider
what
expectations
we
have
from
users
of
the
internet
and
how
they're
using
it
and
how
they
expect
it
to
affect
their
privacy.
Now.
The
reason
for
that
is
obviously,
you
may
have
noticed
we're
currently
approaching
a
constitutional
crisis
in
this
country
as
a
result
of
people
using
the
internet
and
we're
approaching
weapons
of
mass
litigation
and
I.
AL
AI
I
mean
there
is
a
real
problem
that,
as
the
Internet
has
grown
into
a
big
info
socio
for
the
society,
it
has
changed,
I
mean
it
used
to
be
20
years
40
years
ago,
DS,
while
conquests
that
were
making
of
connecting
everybody
in
it,
and
we
were
very
happy
about
that.
Oh
now,
we
have
to
go
to
the
next
level,
clearly,
even
understand
that
we
are
this
infrastructure,
we
have
to
make
it
matter
with,
make
it
more
reliable,
not
to
Finn's
point.
AI
Z
Yeah
I
I
just
wanted
to
add.
I
all
the
covered,
not
all
the
conversations,
but
pretty
much
all
the
rooms
have
been
in
this
week.
I
think
people
have
been
thinking
about
this
and
it's
definitely
on
people's
minds.
The
question
is
always:
how
can
we
help,
and
how
can
we
affect
this
with
what
we
do
here?
It's
it's,
and
this
goes
to
a
lot
of
conversations
we've
had
about
human
rights
and
other
aspects
where
we're
trying
to
respect
the
users
and
trying
to
further
the
goals
of
the
internet
that
we
share.
J
So,
just
as
a
closing
comment
on
this
topic,
I
want
to
point
out
that
I
sock
actually
hosts
policy
fellows
at
many
IITs,
including
this
one,
and
one
of
the
conversations
that
those
policy
fellows
have
is
actually
trying
to
understand
the
interplay
between
the
the
social
systems
of
their
countries
and
the
Internet
as
a
as
a
set
of
platforms
and
I.
Think
it's
very
important
that
we
continue
that
engagement
outside
of
just
the
technical
circles.
J
As
we
look
at
these
problems,
because
it's
quite
clear
that
some
of
our
own
understanding,
which
might
be
based
simply
on
how
the
packets
flow
or
the
pieces
of
information,
traverse
the
network
that
that's
not
actually
capturing
the
whole
problem,
as
it's
seen
by
other
parts
of
ecosystem
and
so
I
really
encourage
everybody
to
remain
engaged,
not
just
with
AIESEC
and
its
policy
program.
But
with
the
policy
and
civil
society.
Folks,
wherever
it
is,
you
will
go
home
to
London
John.
AM
It's
keeping
in
mind
that
I
know
we're
already
over
time.
I'll
try
to
be
brief,
but
apropos
of
the
bones
first,
the
message
I
heard
during
that
excellent
talk
was
that
stuff
has
gotten
beyond
the
point
where
the
actual,
where
the
operators
who
actually
need
to
use
this
stuff,
can
understand
it
and
we're
sort
of
we
have
a
problem
here
that
we're
sort
of
self
selected
to
be
exactly
the
wrong
people
to
evaluate
that
problem,
because
no
no,
no,
because
there
are
operators
here,
but
they
tend
to
be
the
most
sophisticated,
the
Lark.
AM
You
know
it's
like.
Okay,
what
the
ANS
operators
very
well
Google
is
here
at
CloudFlare
is
here
Dominic
and
the
super
the
super
sophisticated
people
are
here.
You
know
sort
of
the
random.
You
know
the
random
business
that
is
trying
to
run
a
DNS
cache
on
there.
You
know
on
their
windows
box
probably
is
not
now,
although
I
could
say,
oh
that
we
just
need
to
get
more
operators
here.
AM
You're,
like
that
ain't
gonna
happen,
but
I'm
wondering
is
there
some
way
that
we
can
figure
out
that
we
could,
like
you
know,
and
perhaps
with
I
socks,
help
figure
out
somebody
we
can
go
and
pull
the
offer.
You
know
figure
out
some
way
to
go
and
talk
to
the
people
who
we
on
whom
we
will
be
inflicting
our
stuff
and
try
to
understand
better
whether
they'll
be
able
to
use
it.
AN
Is
this
a
follow-up
question
or
follow
comment
on
that?
Okay,
please
yeah
Darren
Pettis
speaking
as
a
network
operator,
you
know,
as
many
people
know,
we
brought
a
proposed
internet
draft
forward
on
Monday
and
and
it's
I
don't
want
to
go
on
and
on
it's
just
it
there's
a
dichotomy
here
between
the
need
for
privacy
on
the
Internet,
which
we
completely
understand
and
a
requirement
by
many
operators
to
manage
their
networks
internal
to
the
data
center
and
I'm.
AN
AN
We
would
have
liked
to
have
had
maybe
an
AI,
be
a
contextual
board
review
or
a
board
meeting
for
a
couple
of
days
to
discuss
it.
A
little
more,
maybe
understand
the
situation
a
little
bit
better.
There's
a
lot
of
confusion
out
there
on
that.
But
that
being
said,
the
situation
remains
say.
No.
We
didn't
come
up
with
a
solution
that
was
agreeable
at
the
time,
which
is
understandable,
so
I
have
to
figure
out
how
we
go
forward.
AN
But
but,
as
I
say,
the
situation
remains
that
we
have
to
manage
our
networks
and
we
also
want
things
to
be
secure
on
the
internet.
So
where
we
go
from
here,
I
don't
know,
but
just
wanted
to
share
a
little
bit
with
that.
And
if
anybody
has
any
ideas
of
better
ways
to
accomplish
that
and
get
through
that
Academy
or
it
happened
to
listen
so
before.
J
J
AF
That
is
yes,
that's
a
sophisticated
crowd,
so
I
and
I
don't
know
how
to
reach
out
to
you
know
small
network
operators:
I
know
how
to
find
Darren.
I
know
he's
right
there,
but
I,
don't
know
how
to
reach
I,
don't
know
how
to
reach
people
who
manage
a
small
network
and
don't
go
to
conferences
and
may
not
read
the
same
trade
journals
that
I
do,
and
so
there
that's
I
think
that
the
the
I
I'm
gonna
speak
for
the
maybe
since
I'm
leaving
and
they
had
they
can't
fire
me.
AF
Think
there's
interest
in
continuing
to
find
ways
to
do
that
kind
of
work
to
make
sure
that
we
incorporate
more
stakeholders
perspectives
as
we're
developing
systems
here
at
the
IETF
and
I,
don't
think
that's
limited
to
the
IAB
I
think
it's
also
represented
on
the
iesg.
That's,
but
there's
a
I
think
we
also
need
more
suggestions
on
how
to
do
that
outreach
and
do
so
in
ways
that
scale
because
there's
you
know
there
are
a
limited
number
of
us
and
ours.
Okay,.
AN
One
last
thing:
what
one
idea
was
that
it
could
be
something
similar
to
ipv6,
where
there's
put
into
an
operational
side
and
a
maintenance
side,
because
it's
very
tough
for
non-programmers
to
come
into
a
cryptographer
session
and
try
to
come
up
to
speed
on
what's
going
on.
So
if
there
was
an
operational
side
where
they
could
look
at
the
need
and
then
maybe
partner
with
some
people
on
the
maintenance
side
that
might
bridge
that
gap
a
little
bit.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Oh.
J
Spencer
Dawkins
I
just
wanted
to
follow.
On
the
please
comment,
a
little
bit
just
say
you
know:
I've
gone
to
operator
conferences,
you
know
gatherings
also,
but
you
know,
but
this
this
last
time
I
know
I
was
a
little
bit
different.
We
you
know
we
had
like
six
or
seven
people.
We
had
an
hour
slot,
but
talk
about
IETF
stuff.
We
had
at
least
a
hundred
people
in
the
room.
J
Listening
to
us,
there
was
no
plenary
slot,
but
yeah
that
was,
there
was
a
lot
I'm
I'm
thinking
that
I'm
thinking
that
I
am
sensitive
to
the
part
where
those
are
not
the
right
operators.
I
suspect
that
if
we
had
the
right
question
the
conversations
with
them,
we
might
understand
some
things
better
and
they
might
have
a
better
ability
to
blow
stuff
downstream
to
smaller
operators
than
we
do
so
just
app
level
and
say
the
IB
and
iesg.
J
Both
have
members
that
are
more
intentional
about
contact
with
the
upper
community
than
I've
seen
in
the
last
four
years,
and
I
would
encourage
the
community
to
make
sure
that
we're
talking
to
them
about
the
right
things
it
seems
like
this
is
a
right
thing.
They
could
be
on
our
list
and
I'm
pretty
sure
that
there
are
other
light
things
as
well.
D
Oh
no
I
haven't
yet
they
are
so
while
the
IOC
comes
up
here,
I,
including
the
yes
they're
all
here,
so
I
want
to
apologize
to
to
Leslie
and
to
be
us
because
I
didn't
invite
them
up
here.
I
up
the
the
runner
of
show,
so
I
apologize
to
both
of
you
but
Leslie
is
over
here.
Gnaeus
is
over
here,
we'll
do
the
photographs
with
the
plaques
later,
just
because
we're
running
over
time,
but
again,
I
want
to
thank
them
very
much
for
their
for
their
service.
So
thank
you.
V
D
AH
A
meeting
hi
I
concern
about
the
I
killed
registration
fee
increase
when
I
first
joined
the
registration
fees
or
on
Oh
for
five
hundred
dollars
now
we'll
unite
here,
maybe
or
on
earth
health,
one
thousand
US
dollars.
Maybe
I
was
hanging
on
another
ten
years.
Maybe
two
thousand
US
dollar
I.
Is
it
so
I
can
register
fees
the
most
like
Spencer
fee
I
have
emailed
many
I
in
another
related
her
meetings,
so
I
thought
because
I
my
company
sponsor
me
to
join
the
meeting
so
mm
Oh,
1,000,
Oh,
5,
500
euros.
AH
Lala
is
no
problem
for
me,
but
her.
If
we
have
a
modern
well
one
southern
US
dollar
maybe
is
block.
We
plug
some
open
source
project
manager
or
small
companies
to
join
her,
because
what
once
on
a
US
dollar
is
much
to
them
it
every
year.
Maybe
it's
three
thousand
US
dollars
so
I.
My
suggestion
is,
we
may
be
a
future
to
Sam's
away.
So
what
is
the
maximum
register
feet
that
the
ITM
community
can
endure
except
her?
AH
So
I
also
also
suggest
the
idea
for
use
another
financial
source
rule
for
maybe
have
a
idea
for
discussion.
How
to
increase
the
financial
revenue
for
ITF
I'll,
not
only
force
on
the
registry
fee
if
we
register
fee
like
the
tax
law,
more
tests,
maybe
the
the
command
here.
It
may
be
another
happy
that
my
suggestion.
Oh.
D
AM
People
are
now
struggling,
weird
yeah,
I'll
go
I
mean
we.
When
this
question
comes
up,
I
mean
first
mean
the
the
proposal
we're
our
current.
You
know,
straw
man
proposal
is
to
raise
the
price
from
$700
a
seven
hundred
and
seventy
and
the
one
of
the
topics
that
always
comes
up
is
that
by
the
is
that
nearly
everybody
print,
nearly
everybody
travels
from
far
away.
So
there
is
hotel
costs
and
there's
airplane
costs
and
which,
for
most
people,
I
think
are
probably
more
$700.
AM
I
AM
Okay,
no
we're
meeting
no
we're
meeting
in
Thailand
this
fall,
and
this
is
the
first
time
since
we
met
in
China
that
we
are
meeting
in
what
would
be
considered
to
be
a
middle-income
as
opposed
to
a
high-income
country.
You
know
and
I
could
easily
imagine
they're
people
who
live
in
Bangkok,
you
know
and
can
get
it
could
get
to
the
venue
on
the
bus
for
whom
the
$700
fee
might
be
a
deterrent
and-
and
we've
had
you
know,
and
we
in
fact
it's
not
well.
AM
It's
not
super
well
publicized,
but
in
fact
you
can
ask
you
can
ask
for
fee
waivers,
but
I
am
you
know,
but
as
we
become
more
international,
the
fact
that
different
people
can
pay
different
amounts
will
be
an
issue
and
I
think
that,
particularly
as
you
know,
we're
talking
about
satellites
and
community
networks
and
stuff
like
that
and
to
me
I
think
it's
important
that
we
encourage
people
to
participate
from
countries
outside
of
the
kind
of
traditional
g8,
g8
countries,
so
I
think
so
the
yet.
So
the
actual
answer
to
your
question
is
you
know.
AM
We
are
aware
that
raising
the
price
is
a
problem
and
the
more
we
waive
raise
the
price
and
lower
get
the
more
we're
going
to
scare
people
away.
You
know,
and
we
don't
have
all
the
answers
into
the
exact.
You
know
the
extent
that
people
can
give
us
advice
on
how
to
do
it.
Better
I
think
we'd
like
to
hear
it.
AP
AP
AP
There's
a
number
of
things
that
we
can
debate
or
discuss
in
the
community,
so
one
is,
for
example,
can
we
get
more
sponsorship,
money
or
other
sponsorship
revenues?
Should
we
expect
Isaac
to
pay
more
I
mean
Isaac
is
already
paying
a
lot
more
compared
to
some
years
ago,
but
maybe
I
don't
know
yeah.
Is
there
something
to
discuss
about
remote
attendees?
Should
they
also
care?
Some
of
that?
A
The
only
thing
I
would
say
in
addition
to
that
is
that
we
need
to
look
at
the
financial
picture
as
a
whole.
So
meeting
registration
revenues
is
one
one
source
of
revenue,
but
we
also
have
sponsorships
and
we're
looking
at
some
innovative
ways
to
formulate
those
for
ITF
103,
in
particular,
that
that
Jon
raised
to
try
and
work
with
sponsors
to
help
make
it
possible
for
more
locals
to
attend,
but
there's
lots
of
other
ways
that
you
could
think
about.
A
D
And
I'm
going
to
cut
the
mic
lines
just
in
case
anybody
else
has
some
great
ideas
up
here.
Only
other
people
are
sending
are
going
to
get
getting
hits
at
that.
But
the
last
thing
that
I
will
say
about
this
is
that,
as
I
said
in
the
earlier
part
of
the
of
the
program,
we
are
not
promising
you
on
this
increase.
D
This
is
this
is
a
warning
now
so
that
you
can
budget
for
it
just
in
case
it
comes,
but
that
doesn't
mean
we're
going
to
do
it
and,
as
you
can
already
tell
we're,
going
to
have
lots
to
talk
about
at
our
retreat
at
April
and
will
definitely
be
reporting
back
to
you
as
soon
as
that
is
done
about.
You
know
what
what
we're
thinking
about.
Also,
if
you
have
bright
ideas
about
what
we
ought
to
be
doing,
please
do
send
them
to
us
right.
D
AR
AR
We
are
often
abrupt
to
each
other,
we're
often
rude
nasty
whatever
on
mailing
lists
or
in
person,
and
what
I
hear
often
in
response
to
being
called
on
that
is,
they
can
take
it,
they
their
long
term
or
their
long
time,
participants.
You
know,
we
know
each
other
or
sometimes
even
I,
really
don't
care.
If
that
person
is
a
jerk
I
really
don't
care
if
I
Drive
them
away,
but
we
don't
consider
that
there
are
10
other
people
watching
this
exchange.
AR
Saying
I,
don't
want
to
put
myself
in
a
position
where
I'm
treated
that
way-
and
this
is
not
just
theoretical
I've
had
more
than
one
person
I've
had
more
than
a
few
people
tell
me
that
they
either
left
or
didn't
participate
because
they
saw
how
other
people
were
treated.
So,
even
if
you
think
the
people
who
are
having
this
discussion
or
thick
skin,
it
is
affecting
other
people
and
we
need
to
not
behave
that
way.
Thank
you.
AR
AK
Kyle
Rose
I
want
to
call
the
AFC's
attention
to
a
grave
injustice,
and
that
was
the
the
lack
the
shortage
of
cookies
or,
as
the
English
call
them
biscuits
I'm
just
wondering
what
you
guys
are
gonna
manage
to
next
time
to
make
sure
that
there's
enough
sugar
to
keep
us
all,
you
know
awake
and
working.
You.
D
So
I
want
to
point
out
actually
that
the
next
time
the
the
ietf
meets
together,
we're
going
to
be
meeting
in
Montreal,
which
is
in
Quebec
and
Quebec,
is
the
maple
syrup,
capital
of
Canada
and
they're.
Actually
there
actually
is
a
store
Nick
there's,
actually
a
strategic
maple
syrup
reserve
in
the
province
of
Quebec,
so
so
I
think
that's
what
we're
gonna
do.
I
just.
D
We
are
sorry
about
the
lack
of
cookies
I
understand
that
that
there
have
been
on
occasion,
various
views
about
the
this
venue
and
the
way
that
we
interact
with
it
and
I
think
that
we
will
look
seriously
at
at
this
venue.
There
were
the
last
time
and
I
will
say:
I
was
on
the
IOC
the
last
time
when,
when
the
decision
to
come
back
here
arose
and
cookies
were
on
the
list
of
complaints,
the
last
time
too,
and
we
thought
we
had
ironed
out
many
of
those
difficulties.
D
My
impression
is
that
this
venue
has
been
better
for
us
this
time
than
last
time.
You
may
decide
for
yourselves
whether
that
is
an
acceptable
answer,
but
I.
You
know
I
recognize
that
some
people
have
faced
some
challenges
here.
I
will
note
that
there
have
been
some
improvements
in
the
in
the
food
handling.
It
appears
to
me
that
there
has
been
some
effort
to
tell
evil
things
a
little
better
and
I
think
that
that
is
mostly
down
to
Mary
Barnes,
but
I
recognize
that
I
recognize
that
there
have
been
some
cookie
shortages.
A
Plug
so
the
Secretariat
sends
out
a
meeting
survey
after
every
meeting
and,
while
you
know
threads
on
the
attendees
list
are
useful
for
collecting
ad
hoc
feedback
about
the
venue
and
any
other
aspects
of
the
meeting.
The
structured
feedback
that
we
received
in
the
survey
is
a
really
valuable
source
of
information
for
us,
it's
really
hard
to
make
decisions
in
a
vacuum
about
what
we
should
do
in
the
future.
So
if
you
have
opinions
about
how
you
thought
the
meeting
went
or
in
venue
itself,
they
tailor
the
questions
specifically
each
time
about
particular
things.
D
AS
Name
is
Malcolm
salmon
from
a
panic,
I
mean.
First
of
all,
let
me
begin
by
acknowledging
that
the
financial
sustainability
of
the
idea,
she'd
always
come,
always
take
a
priority
over
everything
else.
However,
the
same
time,
we
do
realize
that
technology
very
quickly
takes
up
the
character
of
the
people
that
have
created,
which
is
why
I
think
the
goal
to
have
a
lot
more
representation
geographical,
racial.
AS
You
know
also
AM
gender,
sorting,
ortant,
and
when
we
talk
about
the
total
cost
of
attending
a
meeting
for
a
room
like
this,
there's
a
cost
that
most
of
you
don't
ever
understand
the
cost
of
getting
a
visa.
It
could
easily
be
as
high
as
five
hundred
US
dollars
to
a
thousand.
That's
for
someone
coming
from
you
know
so
very
far,
so
I
want
you
to
have
those
things
in
mind.
So
once
you
raise
choose
to
raise
the
fees,
please
do
consider.
AS
What
does
that
mean
for
your
strategy
to
also
have
what
a
lot
more
accessibility,
because
just
the
fees
automatically
is
B
to
shut
down
a
lot
of
people?
A
good
rule
of
thumb
is
to
just
look
at
that
tape.
What
is
the
average
salary
of
the
kind
of
person
from
the
Africa
or
Asia
that
you
would
like
to
be
here,
because
if
this
doesn't
get
to
the
point
where
some
engineers
say
in
Lagos
or
in
Cameroon,
is
that
okay,
actually,
which
could
go
to
this
event
and
pay
for
my
pocket?
AS
Then
it's
always
going
to
be
no
lock
art,
philosophy
and
final
immunity
for
some
of
the
solutions?
The
answers
are
not
going
to
be
found
in
this
room
of
self-selected
people.
Maybe
the
idea
I,
don't
know
whether
you
guys
the
right
people
should
think
about
sending
missions
where
you
go
to
like.
What's
the
African
states
of
it,
go
to
the
Asia
Pacific
and
have
working
sessions,
what
can
we
do
in
other
to
make
the
idea
make
make
make
it
possible
for
you
to
be
more
engaged
in
the
idea?
A
A
But
it's
one
means
that
we've
adopted
and
that
we're
actually
trying
to
adopt,
as
the
consensus
item
of
the
IETF,
to
try
and
spread
some
of
this
cost
across
the
meetings
over
the
years,
so
that,
if
you
can't
attend
one
time,
you
can
attend
another
time
and
just
in
response
to
the
your
second
point.
So
the
IETF
itself
is
all
volunteers.
We
can't
send
people
anywhere
because
we
don't
really
have
the
means
to
even
cause
people
to
come
to
the
to
our
own
meetings.
A
I
sock
does
have
programs
that
are
involved
in
trying
and
trying
to
get
people
to
participate
in
the
ITF
and
to
do
outreach
in
various
parts
of
the
world,
and
it's
something
that
we
could
look
at,
that
we
do
look
at
collaborating
around,
but
for
the
IETF
itself.
You
know,
since
everybody's
a
volunteer,
we
can
just
ask
people
to
do
things.
We
can't
make
them
do
them
and
that's
definitely
something
that
that
I
at
least
experienced
every
day
of
the
job
trying
to
get
volunteers
to
do
things
is
pretty
challenging.
AF
D
I
think
when
I
said
it's
possible,
but
I
did
say
it
can't
continue.
I
think
what
I
meant
in
any
case
is
I'm,
not
sure
it
should
continue
and
I
I.
Don't
control,
I
socks,
budget,
of
course,
so
I
can't
actually
speak
for
what
I
suck
should
do,
but
I
control,
the
part
of
you,
know:
I,
don't
control
anything
to
perfectly
honest
with
you,
I
barely.
D
Mouth
but
but
but
you
know,
I
I'm
part
of
this
body
and
we
have
responsibility
for
our
budget
and
we're
trying
to
stay
within
our
means
that
you
know
there
is
this
danger
that
if
we
continue
to
rise
that
we
we
have
the
opposite
problem
of
what
we've
just
been
talking
about?
That
is
we,
you
know
our
expenses
start
to
eat
away
from
us,
so
we
have
to
be
careful
about
that.
D
The
final
thing
that
I
would
say
is
I
am
concerned
about
about
having
this
this
this
way
of
operating
where
we
come
up
with
all
the
stuff
that
we
want
to.
Do
we
talk
that
up.
We
figure
out
how
much
money
we
got
and
then
we
go
to
you
know
our
our
parents
and
say
you
know:
can
I
have
the
car
I
think
that
there's
a
certain
responsibility
to
live
within
within
our
means
and
to
understand
why
our
budget
works
this
way?
Some
of
this
is
structural.
D
We've
got
all
kinds
of
explanations:
people
who
can
come
up
with
them,
they're
plausible
ones,
but
I,
don't
think
we
have
a
really
good
idea
as
to
why
the
meeting
that
has
has
been
changing
so
much
and
I
think
that
if
we
don't
have
that
it,
it's
unreasonable
for
us
to
ask
the
you
know.
The
wider
I
saw
community
to
just
pay
whatever
it
is
that
we
managed
to
come
up
with
people
are
going
to
start
to
ask
us.
Well,
what
are
you
doing
with
you
know,
with
these
unpredictable
expenses
and
I?
D
K
Think
if
someone
said
it
earlier
about
taking
a
look
at
the
the
whole
of
the
not
just
the
business
model
as
to
who's
supporting
what,
although
we've
gone
through
this
a
number
of
times,
because
there's
basically
three
streams
of
revenue,
right
registration
fees,
sponsorships
and
then
the
I
sock,
piece
and
I
think
that's
okay,
I
mean
the
point
is
when
you
see
this
kind
of
strain
on
the
way
things
are
it's
worth
looking
at
it
across
the
board?
I,
don't
think!
K
There's
any
yes/no,
or
even
maybe
here
there's
a
a
desire
by
all
of
us
to
get
hold
of
what
the
actual
costs
are.
Why
and
and
I
think,
while
some
of
the
cost
got
moved,
I
think
it's
really
about
the
attendance
and
I
think
that
that
issue
is
one
that
deserves
some
attention,
because
that's
I
think
you
put
it
up
on
the
slide
right.
That's
where
you're
seeing
this
gap
and
so
I
think
the
collective
thought
was
well.
It
should
be
examined
as
to
what's
going
on
here.
J
Just
to
follow
up
on
that
a
little
bit,
I
think
that
the
concern
here
is
only
about
money
flows.
It's
about
whether
or
not
it's
signal
that
what
we're
producing
isn't
a
value
to
the
the
folks
who
were
producing
it
for
and
if
the
reason
that
we're
having
lowered
attendance
is
because
the
online
mechanisms
have
gotten
better
and
remote
participation
is
successful
for
people
who
might
have
previously
come
for
one
or
two.
J
That's
not
a
statement
of
the
value
of
the
hf,
and
it
means
that
we
may
need
to
change
the
funding
model
to
not
be
based
on
attendance
over
time,
but
it,
it
doesn't
say
anything
as
signal
to
the
leadership
or
to
the
the
rest
of
the
ITF
about
whether
or
not
what
we're
producing
is,
though,
the
right
thing
or
the
value
needed
by
the
ecosystem
and
I.
Think
that
the
point
andrew
was
making
before
about
this
can't
continue
is
really
about.
J
J
AO
Thanks,
so
I
actually
don't
want
to
speak
to
the.
Why
can't
I
talk
just
pay
all
of
it,
because
I
think,
if
you
want
to
have
that
discussion,
you
need
to
go
to
the
ISO
to
our
meetings,
but
I
do
want
to
speak
a
little
bit
more
about
this
model
question
and
some
work
that
Lou
has
been
spearheading
in
the
Finance
Committee
to
actually
have
a
look
at
well.
What
is
what
is
the
actual
model
of
as
Pete
Resnick
calls
that
oh,
no,
it's
Eliot
Lera
calls
them.
Gizem
design
goes
out
as
right.
AO
What
what
are
our
inbound
flows
of
money
and
what
are
our
outbound
ones,
and
one
salient
thing
that
I
would
pull
up
here?
Is
that
a
decade
ago
or
more
meeting
fees
covered
more
than
the
cost
of
the
meeting,
and
now
they
don't
and
that
difference
is
largely
a
function
of
it's,
not
just
our
costs
that
are
going
up
at
the
costs
of
you
know:
hotels
and
whatnot
and
food,
etc.
So
it
is
a.
It
is
a
bit
of
a
tricky
business.
It
is,
it
is
challenging
to
get
a
picture
of.
You
know
how.
AO
It
was
the
lowest
curve
ever
and
it
was
you
know
we
have
all
of
the
graph,
but
all
of
the
lines
going
up
like
this
and
then
this,
but
this
meeting
was
doing
this
and
it
was
like
it
was
gonna,
be
a
sub
1000
person
meeting
and,
as
you
saw
in
earlier
slides
here,
we
are
1,200.
People
missed
missed
the
prediction
by
40
people
so
yeah.
Some
of
this
is
just
tricky
hard
and
subject
to
new
new
good
work
being
introduced
to
the
agenda.
So.
K
Just
one
last
thing
as
you're
plating,
all
this
I
heard
at
least
two
of
our
colleagues
from
Africa
talk
today
about
the
needs
of
people
in
those
nations,
and
we
here
at
I
saw
a
lot
of
actual
interest
in
people
in
the
other
part
of
the
world
where
there
is
not
an
internet.
Yet
that
would
be
40%
of
the
world
that
we're
hearing
from
those
folks
that
hey
we'd
like
to
create
too.
We
want
to
be
part
of
this
part
of
what
I
wonder
is
whether
there
are
new
demands
that
we're
not
looking
at.
K
That
would
be
served
in
different
ways
that
perhaps
result
in
some
different
costs
structures,
and
so
my
raise
my
hand,
saying
I
sure
hope,
as
you
take
this
issue
up,
that
that
is
part
of
the
discussion
and
that
the
testing
what
those
new
markets
are
for
the
IETF
I
think
would
be
really
smart.
I
know
that
my
last
trip
to
India
all
of
everybody
wanted
to
say
how
do
we?
How
do
we
get
there?
How
do
we
do
this?
We
can't
get
there
from
here
financially,
but
why
don't
you
come
here?
Well?
AF
Want
to
thank
you
all
for
all
those
comments
and
end
points
and
I
do
think
that
looking
at
the
value
that
the
IETF
offers
to
the
not
just
participants
but
potential
participants
does
need
to
be
part
of
that
model
and
I
hope
that
you
will
look
at
that,
probably
with
the
iesg
when
you're
talking
about
how
do
we
make
sure
we're
actually
providing
value
and
and
absolutely
Kathie's.
You
just
said:
we've
heard,
please
make
sure
you
can
include,
we
can
be
inclusive,
and
that
includes
you
know:
financial
inclusivity,
Thanks.
D
All
right,
so
there
are
two
things.
First
of
all,
I
have
now
run
two
mistakes
of
today,
so
I
got
one
more
and
then
I'm
fired,
but
I
run
two
mistakes
today
that
the
second
one
was
I
did
not
in
fact
it
white
bread
and
can
here
on
to
the
the
stage
so
that
you
could
see
who
they
were.
So
if
you
would
come
up
here
now
with
the
remaining
people
who
are
willing
to
do
that,
I'm
going
to
ask
you
to
come
up
here.
While
you
ask
your
thirty
second
question:
that's
you
Erin!
Z
Collect
input,
make
a
decision,
but
there
might
be
a
little
bit
of
chance
for
some
dialogue
since
I
think
that
it
is.
It
is
different
from
the
standard
work
environment
for
ITF,
but
it
might
be
good
to
have
a
chance
to
talk
about
it
if
you're
seriously
considering
locations
for
meetings
that
are
so
different
from
our
current
expectations.
D
So
thank
you
for
that,
but
I
hope
that
you
are
sending
such
such
remarks
to
to
the
relevant
list
to
the
to
the
inbox
that
accepts
them
and
I
also
want
to
remind
you
that
we
have
this.
This
new
committee,
that
is,
is
tasked
with
dealing
with
that
with
that
input
and
also,
finally,
that
you
know
we
do
have
an
open
mailing
list
right
that
the
ITF
mailing
list
is
is
is
open
and
we
can
discuss
those
things
there,
but
I
think
that
it's
very
important
that
people
raise
issues
about.
D
You
know
what
what
the
differences
are
to
that
committee.
We
are
not
going
to
be
able
to
solve
the
problem
for
everybody
all
the
time
and
I
think
that
you
know
raising
the
issues
is
important,
but
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
that's
going
to
be
definitive
and
I'm,
not
sure
that
we
can
decide
meeting
venues
with
1,200
of
our
closest
friends
on
a
list.
It's
a
fair
point.
AP
So,
to
the
other
tone
of
your
question,
one
one
of
the
ideas
of
the
meeting
menu
off
and
of
asking
reaching
out
to
the
community
is
that
we
want
to
reach
out
early
in
the
process.
This
doesn't.
This
is
not
the
last
step.
This
is
one
of
the
first
steps
where
we
start
contemplating
about
something,
so
we
can
receive
your
feedback
early,
so
see
it.
In
that
spirit,.
AQ
So
I've
now
been
the
median
review
chair
for
I
think
about
twenty
eight
hours
so
how's
it
going
so
how's
it
going
so
far.
Yeah
so
I
will
say:
please
send
the
feedback
in
through
the
channel
we've
established.
It
can
be
good
feedback.
We
positive
feedback
where
you
say
good
things,
but
why
we
should
go
do
with
that
particular
place
that
requested
input
off
as
well
as
reasons
why
we
should
be
concerned
about
it.
We
should
maybe
reconsider
going
to
this
location,
so
it
doesn't
always
have
to
just
be
bad
stuff.
AT
AB
Hello,
I'm
Brad
Biddle
in
the
new
legal
counsel
and
really
I'm
excited
also
about
being
engaged,
a
huge
respect
for
ITF
and
everything
it's
accomplished,
and
it's
kind
of
daunting.
We're
all
to
step
into
ITF,
had
incredible
legal
support,
or
you
know
the
past
number
of
years,
with
George,
Contreras
and
I
feel
like
I'm
standing
on
the
shoulders
of
giants
and
in
one
sense,
because
there's
really
been
amazing.
AB
F
AZ
A
A
So
so
we
sent
you
a
response
Pete,
which
indicated
that
we
thought
that
the
right
time
to
come
back
to
this
discussion
would
be
when
the
new
format
tools
were
a
little
bit
further
along
because
we
might
be
able
to
leverage
them
to
address
some
of
the
issues
that
you
raised.
So
we
had
a
had
a
lively
discussion
about
it
and
there
were
kind
of
differences
of
opinion
and
on
the
topic
itself,
but
it
seems
like
that's.
That
would
be
the
right
time
to
take
it
up
again.
T
Good
so
I
stood
up
here.
Last
is
G.
If
you
remember
and
calling
the
IETF
arrogant
and
how
we
needed
to
get
the
user
community
together
and
I
said,
I
would
take
the
responsibility
to
try
to
get
the
group
together,
and
the
group
that
we
chose
was
own
AAG
because
they
were
interested
in
talking
to
ITF
people.
So
we
had
a
comp.
There
was
a
conference
call.
I
forward
mail
to
the
iesg
asking
people
to
participate.
I
wasn't
able
to
attend,
so
I
have
no
idea.
If
anyone
was
on
that
call,
can
you
comment.
A
AW
Said
you
know
I
know
I
wasn't
able
to
be
on
that
particular
call,
but
we
have
been
having
some
conversations
about
seeing
if
we
could
ask
some
folks
at
oh
not
to
come
either
about
to
talk
and
at
the
routing
area
meeting
or
our
teach
you
w
cheat
and
do
a
better
overview
of
what's
going
on
and
we
are
getting
some
work
coming
into
the
routing
area,
meeting
I'm,
sorry
working
group
that
is
very
related
to
what
Donna
is
doing
so
I
think
we
really
need
to
continue
and
build
that
relationship.
So.
T
AD
AV
So
that's
one
idea
and
I'm
sure
the
new
ad
S
will
take
that
into
consideration.
The
security
area
has
done
pretty
well
for
the
last
few
years,
and
so
we've
been
trying
to
share
with
the
other
areas
what
we've
been
doing
in
case
that
helps
others.
Maybe
it's
easier
for
security,
or
maybe
it's
the
mentorship,
but
we
have
paid
attention
to
who
asks
who's
interested
to
eventually
be
an
area
director
and
have
tried
to
work
with
them
on
different
opportunities,
whether
they're
very
young,
in
their
career.
AV
So
it
does
require
outreach
from
the
area
directors
it
requires
mentorship
and
you
know
showing
interest
in
in
building
people.
So
I
do
hope
that
continues
and
I
know.
Then
a
Necker
are
interested
to
continue
that
right
and
we
discussed
who
was
interested
so
far
and
hope
that
the
list
grows
and
we
encourage
the
de-sect
here
as
well.
Oh.
AW
Yeah,
so
yes,
we
can
do
a
lot
in
our
areas
and
obviously
Alvaro
and
Debra
and
I
have
done
some
of
that,
encouraging
our
chairs
and
appointing
new
people.
But
to
pretend
that
this
is
isolated
from
the
other
industry
effects
and
the
consolidation
that's
happening
in
portions
of
the
industry
would
be
absurd,
and
I
have
to
note
that,
even
when
you
look
up
at
the
iesg
we've
gone
in
the
four
years,
that
I
was
on
the
isg
from
how,
essentially
it
completely
full-time
iesg
to
one
where
that
is
distinctly.
AW
J
J
J
Having
said
that,
this
is
not
the
is
G's
thing
to
fix
is
I
think
it
is.
The
is
G's
thing
to
make
sure
that
we
don't
keep
the
community
from
fixing
and
it's
not
the
num
comes
the
thing
to
fix.
I
mean
you
know
they
can
ask
for
how
many's
earlier,
and
that
would
be
awesome,
but
I
think
that
you
know
I
think
we're
reprogramming
or
simulator
at
this
point
and
I'm
I'm
interested
in
talking
to
people
in
the
community
who
have
ideas
about
that.
I
do
I'll.
Just
say
this
for
a
couple
of
examples.
J
Three
of
them
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
Clue
out
there
that
isn't
up
here
and
I
think
that
I
think
that
might
be
very
helpful
for
the
that
part
of
the
community
that
has
that
clue
to
be
involved.
In
this
conversation,
you
will
notice
that
everybody
on
this
stage
managed
to
figure
out
how
to
get
funded
to
at
least
start
their
terms.
That's
not
true
for
the
rest
of
the
community,
so
we
were
the
wrong
people
to
solve
this
problem.
AU
So
several
I
agree
with
pretty
much
everything
that's
been
said
so
far.
I
won't
go
on
to
say
that
the
art
area,
directors
and
some
of
the
chairs
have
had
a
similar
discussion
this
week
about
how
we
can
better
grow
our
pipeline,
because
the
pipeline
has
been
pretty
thin
some
time.
That's
not
just
at
the
area
director
level,
that's
at
the
chair
level
and
all
the
way
down
where
it's
hard
to
find
people
that
are
both
willing
and
capable
feeling
fill
in
the
roles.
So
that's
something
that
we
are
actively
looking
at.
BA
A
typical
example
is
section
2,
3
4,
which
describes
other
HTTP
other
insertion
in
the
HTTP
flow
when
the
operator
adds
personal
information,
such
as
the
phone
number
as
an
HTTP
header,
so
the
website,
at
the
other
end
I,
have
more
information.
This
sort
on
also
the
rosters
of
this
action.
The
specific
technique
is
sometimes
seen
as
questionable.
It's
not
sometimes
seen
as
questionable
it's
awful
it's
bad
on.
If
encryption
prevents
it,
it's
precisely
what
was
invented
for
so
I
think
that
this
draft
sends
a
very
bad
message.
BA
AX
So
I
mean,
as
I'm
sure
everybody
knows,
this
document
has
had
a
long
and
very
past.
It's
gone
through.
Multiple
IETF
loss
calls
and
yes,
there's
a
lot
in
it.
That
doesn't
make
everybody
happy,
but
what
it
is
trying
to
do-
and
perhaps
doesn't
do
perfectly.
In
fact,
we'll
say
it
doesn't
do
perfectly-
is
the
judgment-free
throughout
no,
we
tried
the
author
tried
multiple
times
to
remove
any
sort
of
judgment
and
Chris
try
to
be.
These
are
things
that
people
do
by
the
way
you
should
know
about
them.
AX
V
AX
It's
one
of
the
very
very
few
documents
where
that
we've
ever
published,
that
has
the
consensus
but
set
you
know
what
which
shows
up
differently
and
the
boilerplate.
So
if
you
have
a
look
in
the
data
tracker,
maybe
that
wasn't
here.
If
you
have
a
look
in
the
data
tracker,
it's
got
consensus
knows
so
it
has
the
different
boilerplate
on
the
front
of
it.
AX
AV
And
I'll
keep
it
short,
so
this
was
a
follow
on
from
RFC,
7258
and
Steven.
One
of
the
authors
of
that
was
the
original
sponsoring
area
director
for
this,
and
he
also
agreed
it
was
a
follow
on
because
if
you
read
the
words
of
that
document,
it
is
also
asking
to
find
a
balance
and
figure
out
what
that
balance
is
between
network
management
and
privacy
and
and
to
consider
those
controls.
AV
J
J
J
I
had
a
fairly
short
but
intense
conversation
with
the
isg
about
that
this
morning,
and
that's
continuing
informational,
sorry,
informal,
our
chats
and
and
retreat
topic
I'm
sure,
but
for
us
to
be
able
to
press
to
be
able
to
get
the
stuff
out.
That
needs
to
be
out
the
way
it
needs
to
be
out
and
I.
Think
we
made
some
I
think
we
actually
make
some
progress,
so
that
would
be
publishing
the
draft
that
we've
been
talking
about.
J
But
I
want
to
uplevel
to
another
thing
and
basically
say
that
you
know
we're
talking
about
a
problem
that
is
difficult.
It
is
a
tussle
it
is.
We
have
managed
to
not
make
it
go
away
for
a
year
and
I
have
no
reason
to
believe
that
it's
going
to
go
away.
So
I
think
that
this
is
the
point
where
we
need
to
be
engaging
with
the
community
and
I
think
this
is
the
point
where
we
need
to
be
steering,
because
we
need
to
be
able
to
do
the
right
thing,
whatever
the
heck.
J
That
is
when
we're
talking
about
G,
we
have
privacy
concerns
G,
we
have
operational
concerns,
that's
been
really
different,
though
the
IAB
has
had
has
had
a
workshop
that
tried
to
you
know,
try
to
engage
the
wireless
operators
and
basically
you
know
it's
this.
This
is
hard
you
know
and
that
you
know
that
conversation
hasn't
stopped
either.
So
I
think
you
know
again.
This
is
a
thing
where
it's
like
you
know.
We
need
help
the
community
and-
and
we
need
to
be
steering
oh
yeah,.
AV
C
AW
So
I
know
why
she
got
the
unicorn,
but
more
seriously,
this
isn't
something
that
the
isg
needs
to
solve.
This
is
something
that
we
all
need
to
solve
as
a
community.
This
is
a
tussle.
This
is
impacting
the
internet.
This
is
impacting
people
out
there
and
it's
a
balance
between,
as
Kathleen
said,
the
endpoint
and
the
network,
and
we've
all
had
their
arguments
about
some
network
and
smart
network.
AW
Since
we
were
in
well
not
preschool
I
guess,
but
you
know
at
least
college
and
at
the
same
time
it
matters,
and
we
also
have
that
lovely
plenary
talk
with
David
Clarke
talking
about
how
one
of
the
things
we
can
do
is
wait
and
figure
out
how
to
make
the
stage
of
the
tussle
something
that
considers
ethics
and
the
challenges
that
are
ahead.
So
the
question
I
have
for
you
back
is
how
do
you
frame
it?
How
do
we
pull
consensus
together
out
of
the
IETF?
How
do
we
get
the
work
moving
along?
AW
That's
needed
because,
no
matter
how
fervently
we
care
about
the
ethics
and
privacy
of
the
internet
and
Internet
users
at
the
end
of
the
day,
folks
are
needing
to
manage
and
run
their
networks
and,
frankly
make
money.
So
we
need
to
figure
out
how
to
balance
the
tussle
and
how
to
do
the
right
technology
to
solve
this,
and
that
I'm
afraid
is
not
something
that
you're
gonna
find
up
here,
because
you
know
there's
so
many
more.
AW
BA
Speaking
about
the
government's
free
collective
of
the
draft
I,
don't
think
that
it's
a
target
in
itself
to
be
driven
free
when
it
sees
things
like
as
a
fool
as
inserting
HTTP
headers
with
personal
information
or
many
other
examples
in
the
draft.
We
should
not
be
judgment
free.
We
should
clearly
say
that
it's
a
bad
thing
on
if
encryption
stop
it
it's
good
for
the
same
reason,
I'm
unhappy
with
the
use
of
terms
like
balance
I
mean
the
priority
is
protecting
the
privacy
of
the
users.
The
rest
comes
after.
We
don't
try
to
balance
everything.
AV
So
I
as
an
author
I'm,
one
of
the
security
area,
directors
and
there's
countless
drafts
in
the
IETF,
has
been
published
during
my
term,
where
I
pushed
for
encryption
to
be
required
on
those
drafts.
I
I
have
firm
belief
that
it
is
helpful
to
have
encryption.
We
are
not
going
to
reach
and
end
encrypted
networks
unless
we
address
these
problems
and
help
people
understand
better
ways
to
tackle
these
issues.
So
publishing
a
draft
like
this
in
my
mind
and-
and
it
says
it
within
the
draft
itself-
is
meant
to
be
helpful
to
overcome
these
obstacles.
AV
AX
C
I
guess
sort
of
a
follow
on
from
that,
simply
continuing
to
say
that
something
is
bad,
doesn't
make
it
go
away,
and
we
spent
a
long
time
saying
that
matt
has
horrendous.
You
should
never
deploy
nap,
didn't
so
much
work
out
well
for
us,
this
document
isn't
saying
that
you
should
spy
on
your
users.
It's
not
saying
that
in
any
way,
the
tone
I
believe
is
these
things
are
things
that
we
need
to
realize
exist.
You
need
to
understand
that
you
know
there
are
these
middle
boxes
that
do
these
sorts
of
things.
AX
If
you
want
to
have
an
encrypted
network
or
you
know
a
network,
we
encryption
is
ubiquitous.
You
need
to
understand
these
things
exist
and
that
if
you
don't
provide
some
other
way
for
people
to
be
able
to
do
the
stuff
that
they
need
you
to
protect
their
network,
they
will
just
not
allow
you
to
deploy
this
and,
oh
dear.
A
Wait
wait
please,
please
there's
other
people
in
the
mic
line
ahead
of
you.
Illya
did
were
you
coming
up
again?
Okay,
so
I,
just
just
an
observation,
which
is
that,
as
Illya
said
this,
the
responsibility
for
trying
to
figure
out
exactly
what
the
precise
thing
to
do
here
on
a
case-by-case
basis
is
not
lie
with
us
lies
with
the
community
I
think.
If
you
review
the
extensive
record
of
commentary
about
this
document,
you
will
find
both
your
own
view
reflected
and
some
of
the
views
that
the
eighties
to
my
right
over
here
have
been
reflecting.
A
This
is
clearly
a
point
of
contention
for
the
community
the
same.
If
you
review
the
extensive
mailing
list,
traffic
on
opps,
AWG
related
to
the
ballots
right,
so
I
think
it's.
It's
not
a
question
that
we're
going
to
resolve
here
today
and
it's
not
even
necessarily
a
question
for
the
iesg
as
a
body
to
resolve.
We
had.
We
made
a
group
decision
about
what
did
the
disposition
of
the
document
based
on.
You
know
many
many
many
many
many
many
rounds
of
its,
but
this
is
really
not
the
end
of
the
story.
A
AX
AL
For
me
as
a
security
person,
my
biggest
priority
is
usually
integrity
and
authentication
and
for
many
users
access
to
their
data
if
you've
encrypted
all
their
pictures
of
the
kids
when
they're
five
and
they
can't
get
access
to
them.
That's
a
much
more
serious
loss
to
them
than
the
fact
that
somebody
might
else
might
have
seen
them.
So
whenever
you
are
designing
a
security
protocol,
if
you're,
not
thinking
about
the
balance
of
the
users,
concerns
you're,
failing
the
user
and
one
of
the
three
things
that
has
frustrated
me.
AL
So
much
is
that
I
got
into
the
internet
because
of
PGP
and
30
years
later,
we're
still
not
using
end-to-end
encryption
and
that
isn't
the
fault
of
the
end
users.
The
fault
is
in
ourselves
because
we
haven't
yet
given
them
the
end-to-end
tools
that
meet
their
needs
and
we
must
understand
their
needs
and
address
their
needs
before
they
will
use
our
stuff.
AW
AY
AY
AY
Positions
to
be
stated
not
only
on
what
exists,
but
on
what
is
good
and
what
is
bad
so
that
destroying
the
integrity
of
other
people's
data,
whether
it's
HTTP,
headers
or
other
things,
is
condemned
as
bad,
even
though
we
have
to
make
it
a
separate
document
in
order
to
do
a
separate,
Constance's
comments,
so
I
commend
you
for
having
gotten
this
far
in
describing
what
goes
on
in
an
Internet.
That
is
for
everybody.
AY
T
Looking
at
this
problem
purely
from
technical
and
not
policy
or
moral
or
anything,
I
think
it's
a
simple
problem
to
solve.
Every
single
packet
on
the
Internet
should
be
encrypted.
I'm.
Looking
at
this
tech
as
a
technical
problem
as
a
trade-off
between
privacy
and
network
management,
every
single
packet
and
then
the
Internet
should
be
encrypted.
Ip
headers
go
in
the
clear,
so
network
management
at
least
has
something
in
outer
headers.
They
don't.
They
can't
look
at
port
numbers,
but
something
has
to
give
they
don't
have
zero
management.