Internet Engineering Task Force 104, 24 Mar 2019

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From YouTube: IETF104-TUTORIALIDS-20190324-1230

Description

This tutorial (11:30-12:30 UTC on 24 March 2019) provided an overview of xml2rfc v3 and markdown, two tools available to create an Internet-Draft.

TUTORIALIDS meeting session at IETF104
2019/03/24 1230

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/proceedings/

A

Nothing wrong with markdown. They can't be expressed in two spaces.

B

Okay, it is 12:30 on the dot, so I'm going to go ahead and get started. I am Karen O'donoghue from the edgy team and we do tutorials currently on Sundays and at other teams at other times during the week. First of all, we there will be a survey at the end of this. We are really seriously interested in your feedback. So please take the survey, we're interested also in additional topics and volunteers for those topics and we're also interested in additional people that would like to help with the edgy team.

B

So if you are at all interested in this space, there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of things that people suggest that we should do that. We just don't have the resources to do so. I would I would love your health and the edgy team.

B

Mailing list is now an open mailing list, so you can actually just join it and start participating and with that the tutorial for this session, we have one on how to create an internet draft use an XML or a markdown, and we have Matt Miller to talk about the XML RFC stuff and we have Dan York to talk about the markdown. So thank you and have a good tutorial.

C

D

Karen I'm, hoping everybody can hear me all right, all right, so hello ray as Karen said, I'm matthew, miller and I'm here to talk about how to create a internet draft using xml to RFC. So this tutorial overall we're going to go through we're gonna briefly highlight some. Some of the various options that are available but I'll be talking about xml to IRC and dan will be then be talking about creating it with markdown and then, even though we'll have a dedicated area for questions at the end feel free to.

D

If you have something particular feel free to, let us know and well we'll try to explain so so the internet, you, the overall process for get a publishing your document here. Is you have your you, have your draft, whether it's working group or internet draft and submit to the isg go through the community process and get to the art editor. That's that's how you get things done, but obviously to get started. You need to know what it is that you're, creating and some of your options for how to do.

D

That here are there's obviously XML de Arce. That we'll be talking about today, there's an cramdown which Dan will be talking about. There's also m-mark, there's also a few other options, whether it's with pen, pan doc likes in Roth or even a word, template and I believe I think I saw recently. Somebody has an Emacs mode to help out, but today we're talking about XML RC.

D

What is it well, it's a tool that will generate your own address, those those nrcs from an XML source file and there's a couple of vocabularies, some of you if you've written them before if we can get a sense, who's who's written in XML draft before so Wow. Many of us right, so the formal most of you are probably familiar with the version two, but there's now upcoming a version. Three, that's RFC, 79 91, plus some updates that Henrik has been working on.

D

So this will take that XML file and be able to convert it to text or to an HTML PDF, even a fully expanded, and you can you can either use it today through the website or download it yourself through Python.

D

Some good reasons to use this is it does create it in the right format. With the right boilerplate helps you get the formatting for your entries and be able to include them, and your in your cross references plus, you can get some outputs that are a little bit easier for for for us to read in whether it's HTML or PDF, and it also has some better support this latest. The v3 has support for non ASCII characters and and SVG diagrams.

D

So you can do all this with. Obviously you can then pass this around this file around for comments. You got all your metadata in there, so you can. You can extract it back out or find these things and the RC editor it. It simplifies their life. So now the XML to RFC tool is what you will use once you've written up your your text, in whatever editor you like to be able to do that conversion. The v3 is up at at this URL for the experimental version or you can download it again.

D

It's if you've remember with Python you can pip install XML, RFC and run it with this v3 option. Then does all this v3 stuff we're about to talk about, there's place you can file bugs or whether it's the data, try the track tools or an email, or you can reach out to Henrik here. If you've got any particular questions, so the quick start side is, you can use the tool online.

D

There's there's a couple options we'll be talking about in a bit that help you get started, so you can use the two online ticket to get a source source document. There's number of citation libraries that will then help you because I mean I. Don't think any of us have written something I'm, hope, I'm, not sure, I, pretty sure nobody here is written it completely from scratch, with no references.

D

And then you can use your favorite tool to do the editing and use the XML to RFC in order to generate those outputs you can submit to the RFC to.

E

D

D

The what are the citation libraries so we'll go into that in a while, but there it's basically a very it's it's all the references you would normally put in a in an RFC for your other documents. It's a nice collection and easy way to use those.

D

Right so so, there's the command line to be able to generate a v3 from an existing v2 or you can use the web service and that will give you the thesaurus XML you can use. Then, with your editor of choice, editing existing one. There are a couple of options to get started. If you have an existing internet draft text format, you can use the the ID 2 XML to do this conversion or there's webs, there's a web service to do this, and that will take that format and and give you an XML file.

D

You can start start working from it's better if you've got an existing XML file, the the ID tool does the best to can, but every once in a while there's some hiccups, so you'll have to go back and maybe clean some things up, make sure if some references get correct, there's so there's the XML file. If you've got an XML file, you can do that conversion. If you got a markdown, you can use, you can run cramdown and update, and then you can do whatever updates. You need to do bread, yes,.

A

D

D

Henrik, do is there a I, don't recall there is one in the. Is there any exist? Is there an explicit DTD.

F

So that the schema for v3 cannot be expressed as an DTD, it exists as a relax. Ng schema as RNC or oranjee files, and it's embedded in the distribution of XML to RFC ice can send either both of those to you separately.

F

If it's a fairly up-to-date editor, it should be able to take in the schema in that form.

A

So the easiest way for me to generally to be free file is to create be to birth and, oh by the way, if I wanted to grab it.

F

So if you're I assumed that the follow-up question is because you're, not certain that your editor can handle a relax, ng schema is that right.

F

A

F

So if you, if your editor, cannot take in the v3 schema, then going the way you mentioned converting a v2 should work further for the illustrations. I haven't tested using PNG, so I'm not going to say that it will work, but you'll I would recommend that you find a way and I've looked myself for tools to create SVG's free tools, and there are a number of them. So you shouldn't have to buy anything new, but if you want to work with SVG's, you will have to get some tools to to do so.

F

You can't expect it to come out of nothing.

D

So there is a there is a slide on this, but generally as long as you've kept them pretty simple and keep them black-and-white, then the conversion should work. So gradients are gonna, be a problem. If there's really advanced like essentially embedded images, that'll be a problem, but if they're, if they are paths boxes they they should generally, it should generally convert correctly.

D

D

Yeah, so the XML RFC will take some steps to to render it correctly, as as an ASCII at least that's why I think I saw and so that you'll be in the in the in the internet draft and the HTML will come out with with a rendered image. I, don't recall, I, admit I, don't recall what looking at see whether it was a PNG that it's bad out or an SVG most all modern browsers can handle SVG natively.

D

D

Right all right, so some other options for creating this. This XML file is again we'll have Dan, go over cram down or there's m mark. So if you're willing to start from from markdown- and there is a creation, weather wizard does spit out the the v2 format, so you'll need to go through through the the v2 to v3 conversion mentioned earlier to work with that. But so there are some tools to help you get started so creating this internet draft obvious. So, as we said, we start with an existing file.

D

You make your your author element for yourself within your within your text. You'll you'll wrap your paragraphs around a tee or text element any any artwork you would put in there. You would wrap with that with an artwork element, source code with the source code element and citations with the next ref and we'll go over here soon. What those some details in the citation references, so one of the new things with the v3 format is support for non-ascii for unicode.

D

So here's an example of rendering jinwoo with both his asking information and his in chinese information, and so you could do this.

D

You can put these characters with this XML format and as long as you haven't done any as long as you use the utf-8 encoding for the XML document you can put in in the normal places, you would have put your author name or organization information, your email address, postal address and even reference titles in series information you can put in that Unicode in for me, you can put in the Unicode characters and all of those elements have a have a have an ASCII attribute to put in the ASCII text for for rendering out for those that need the ASCII representation.

D

The ASCII representation helps with searching. Not all of our tools are the greatest on on searching across all of Unicode correctly, so it helps with that helps with rendering in some places where utf-8 may not be universally available. Yet the only other places whenever you're putting the new the new system does allow you to put Unicode just about anywhere.

D

The one requirement is using the the: u element that helps validate and be able to put in some additional information, such as you can put in your unicode string and able to tell it I'd want to spit out I want to output booth out port, now put the Unicode representation plus the Unicode code points that would be relevant for that. So for anybody that that could point may, for whatever reason not render at least they still have the representation just a description, the representation.

D

So you, the u element, is- is brand-new with v3 updates. So it's not in RFC 79 91 itself, but it is in the updates that Henrik has been working on in that. So there's some details we can. We can point you towards.

D

So here is an updated author template, as you can see, there's the normal value, the normal things we've been used to now, surname well, plus surname and full name all our ascii, but with these new ascii I'll ASCII attributes really put in the the ascii versions of whatever unicode values you have put in.

D

So, as we said, there's support for SVG diagrams. Here's one generated probably from like something like plant UML that and spit out SVG's and, like I said so, you can use them. They need to be black-and-white images and a subset of this SVG tiny profile. They will be included in your HTML and PDF I mean, as I said. Just all all current browsers know how to render these render these there's a couple ways. There's the the X include to actually put it into your internet draft source and ask you our equivalent.

D

You can add that but and one will be generated if, if it's not there, but you can't include it. If you think you can get that formatted better. Our see seventy-nine 96 has more tips on on making use of SVG's within your within your drafts.

D

So also with the new with that comes up. Is new tech stylings. If you are familiar with semantic hTML, these should be pretty pretty familiar eeehm for italics, strong for bold TT, for your fixed width and sub and sub for super and subscript and superscript, and here's an example of some renderings.

D

Also, new here is differentiated list types so before you might have been used to putting in lists and T elements in order to render out and having to do some fiddling with attributes. Now, there's differentiation between ordered lists, unordered lists and definition lists. So there are the the owner, the ordered lists, this your normal with numbers or with letters there's also some some additional customization. You can do via that type out attribute on the o, L ul for unordered lists. So this is your normal bulleted lists.

D

If you put empty equals true, then, instead of getting a bullet you will, you will get an indented line with that text and then the definition lists. So often in your terms, if you got expanded definition terms, this is a good way to render here's the name of the term and here's here's the description for it, and these elements, similar to as you would find in Exim in HTML, render out some of the other new elements.

D

We have our source code so, instead of using artwork, there is now a source code element that has a number of types that it supports. Natively and if on request, ensure henrik can can point us to any any additions there may be if others come up, so block quote this is good for in intended quotes from if you're, quoting certain lines from other documents or other other things good way to put them in.

D

In an aside again incidental text like warning, a call out, a note gives you some more flexibility, I'm putting these these things together in your document, so now references. So this is where the citation libraries come in and listed here are a number of the existing citation libraries. If you ever go looking at any one of these, you will find them it's essentially, a directory of of xml files in each of those xml files essentially includes that reference element you would have put in by hand.

D

So these are very handy, especially our C internet drafts actually I believe. All of these are essentially rendered for you, as these drafts are updated. So there's not really a need to go back and keep continuously updating your your references manually in your draft as long as you're using the citation libraries.

D

So here's some examples of making use of these references, so this is where the xref element comes in and you can put a target. As you can see, the targets are pretty much what you would have used. They match what you will find in the citation libraries, so RFC's are see, and the number internet drafts start with IE D and the name. The draft and the version number at the end, and then I tripolis format and Zepps also have a similar thing.

D

If you're doing anything with X and BP with those reference tags, you can do some customization.

D

So if you prefer to have numbered references instead of the named references, you can do that with the with a ref element and specify some ref sequels now, instead of its default, if you'd rather have names instead of these, if you'd rather have more familiar names rather than RFC numbers or internet draft names, there's a way to put in a display reference element that then you can essentially create an alias from your existing included references and say this now this this is now to this target. Instead of what was in the citation.

D

Also here is, and there's now, support for tables if you are familiar with semantic HTML. The table format here is is very similar and it's way for you to put a table in without having to resort to trying to get the trying to get the the ASCII art work lined up just right.

D

This also gives you better support in HTML and PDF outputs and here's an example of an HTML output, so some some do's and don'ts around this so rather than hard coding, your references in and the extra fan be used for references even to your own sections, so you can instead of using instead of saying in section such-and-such of this of my of our of this document, you can put an xref to their yeah. You should also be using xrefs when pointing to other documents again with the X with the XML RFC tool. This will.

D

The output will do all the right things if, especially, if you've ever need to reorganize your document change its change. The outline possibly have to update some references. This will take care of those details for you.

D

The other thing is instead of using artwork, we shouldn't be with v3 instead of using artwork for your lists, or your tables. Artwork should just be used for the actual diagrams you're trying to put into your document. Instead, you should be using the the ordered list, honored list or definition lists or the tables table format. Instead,.

D

Now, with all of this, especially for source code and sometimes with even with the artwork there's a need to do, you know if your this is an XML format. Sometimes you need to be able to drop XML in or you need to drop characters that are special to XML C data. This is, if you've already been doing, XML v2, you've, probably run into run into this C data's is essentially an escape mechanism for XML.

D

It will, then, let you put in anything between that angle, bracket, C data and a closing square brackets pro racket angle bracket. You can put anything in there other than that square brackets program at angle bracket and that will be rendered. It is typed, so you will, instead of seeing instead of you getting some sort of weird error with an xref like in this example.

D

You would see angle bracket ex-raf, close angle, so now that you've got some idea of what how to put these together, you can start putting your files to work turn around for comments co-op with your with your co authors or editors or so, especially, if you use a some other Cobra viewing tool or document review tool can be handy to be able to point back to lines.

D

You can upload your XML to the ID submission tool and it will, if you submit just the XML from mote, it should output the correct formats for it's for the the text, the HTML, the PDF. Once your draft has a proof publication. The RFC editor would really like your XML format. It helps them get started very quickly and if you've been submitting it through, the data tracker they've already got it, and we said you can use these to render your your internet draft to HTML. So it's maybe possibly more accessible.

D

Some people there's a lot more functionality than we can cover in this tutorial, so you can always go out and try it as I said XML the RFC you can do with pip install read more in 79, 91 and level. It says document Henrik's, updates here and then for SVG's. There 76 seventy nine. Ninety six there's frequently asked questions. If something's, not there, you can reach out to Henrik and he'll do his best to answer and there's a quick intro. It goes over this plus some some more details.

D

If you have any questions or suggestions for this part, can ask now there's also the mailing list and the RFC editor or you can either reach out on that email address or visit them at their desk this week and as Karen said, there is a survey we'd really like you to be able to take.

G

Hi I think writing RFC's at least as long as Freddy is so I can't claim complete ignorance. This process, however it it seems to me from what you've said that as we transition to version 3, if I'm someone who's got good editing tools which are dtt, dependent that if I create version 2 and then convert to version 3 as who suggested that I don't get any of the version.

G

3 features, including the ability to spend a lot of my time these days and internationalisation, the ability is not ASCII, characters which diversion to GTD were challenged so from what you said, I think I'm, more or less out of luck unless I learn, install and use a completely new set of tools. Is that correct.

D

If you need, if you absolutely need use of the v3, then unfortunately, that that is the case right now, although Henrik its back and forth Eric's going to the mic and.

F

The chemical, that's so I've been thinking, I, don't know how hard it will be to produce a DTD for tools that can't read than you were. Relax ng schema, but it should be possible to add most of the new elements in DTD form. I.

F

As I said, I, don't know how much work it will be to try to to convert a schema to something close that can be expressed as a DTD, but I will actually make a try at that which should help both Fred and JAMA. He would be a big.

G

Help it's it's also big help for another reason, which is that, insofar as the RFC editor is planning on making the XML for whatever that means, the archival form, the continuing evolution of these new forms is, is potentially quite problematic and and things which can be expressed as GT DS are, in that sense, probably more archival. A stable.

F

I'm Henrique again I'm, not that I expert on on schema schema languages.

F

My understanding is that DTD is not used as much as relax, ng D stays, but anyway, I will make it right. One more thing.

F

For the v3 features you will need v3 language, but if you only want the v3 output you're perfectly fine continuing in v2, so you don't don't feel forced into v3 until you actually want to use the.

G

What it is no question: when talking about non ASCII characters, the comic was made about handling utf-8. The difficulty is that properly rendering not ASCII characters, especially for complex scripts, requires a lot more than simply handful utf-8. It requires script, specific and sometimes language, specific rendering tools has that been dealt with or are we still pretending that if we can simply put utf-8 up on the screen, that's sufficient.

F

Henrique again, if.

G

If the question makes.

F

H

G

Offline conversation there's no time no need to take up tutorial time right.

F

But shortly what XML 12 RFC does today is to process everything as unicode, so any any conversion to utf-8 happens when the result is output, and I probably can look at whether additional things are needed there, but I need more information. If there is if there are problems. Your.

G

Conversation, thank you.

I

So really quickly, this is Joe from CDT, be sure to check your tools, guys and everybody relax ng should be widely supported unless you wrote it yourself, so it may just be pointing to a different schema and playing around like that, at least for the for the document. Definition.

D

Now I will hand you to Dan thanks man.

J

So I'm gonna talk now about using markdown to create drafts. Let me ask a first question: how many people have used markdown to create a draft, how many people use markdown for other stuff, alright, another people? Okay? So basically the question is sort of why we talked about markdown and the answer is because, if you look at the text in the screen that text there is probably easier for most people, except for those in this room, okay, to be able to understand alright. So it's that's. What markdown is it's a lightweight formatting language?

J

It's been around for a bit since John, Gruber and Aaron Schwartz and Co created it first there. The goal is that it is a writing format. It's just a text file you're just going in and writing stuff you've seen it used. Many of you will have seen agendas for working groups that are written in markdown here, etc. It looks something like this. You know using the number sign hashtag octothorpe. What are we going to call it for headings the text? You know dashes or bullets hella bad? It's a very simple format like that.

J

You could see how you could do a link you put square back, that's around the target text, you put parentheses around the the URL it's a this is how markdown is you just write this in a text file using any kind of edit or anything like that, and then you work with it. You know in RFC 77-64, which is about using markdown and design guidelines. Has this nice chart which sort of shows where markdown fits in the in the formatting of things? There are many different flavors, there's long discussions around John.

J

Why John Gruber did not want markdown standardized in different ways and, as a result, there's a lot of different flavors out there in different forms. We're going to talk specifically about one of them. You should know there is actually now an I in a registry for markdown variants, which has a number of different registrations inside of there. Rfc 77-64 talks about guidance on markdown, and it provides a good good reading, a good background about what it is. What the tools are, what the pieces are in there to talk about, creating an internet draft you.

J

Actually, it's a two-step process. You write your draft in markdown and then you run it through some tool that generates XML, and then it actually goes through the XML to RFC tool. That Matt was just up there talking about so you're, just basically doing the first part to go and create the draft or to create the XML file you're using this as a way to get that XML file to use. Now you don't actually have to edit that XML file, you can do everything in markdown.

J

If your draft is, you know, relatively straightforward and not doing super complex things, but you do us so there are people, I know who use markdown as a way to generate the XML files which they then go and edit further using an XML editor of some form.

J

There are a couple of different markdown tools that are out there, two of the ones that I know a number of people using are with what I'm going to talk about today, cramdown RFC, which is developed by a Karsten Borman who you'll see around here and another one called M mark and actually I just will say, I just discovered before puddings up there that URL slightly wrong. He has a different repo now for where he's doing his updated code, but it's an marques out there as well or two different ways.

J

They differ slightly in the way they provide. The header info and other stuff like that, but they're both out there so cramdown is, is a very simple tool to use. If you've got Ruby on your system or something or you know most operating systems, these days often have it installed in some form, you can just type gem install cramdown, RFC 2629. You might have to have root access or use sudo or something like that to go and install it. But once you do that, then the process is really simple.

J

You create a markdown file it just with whatever text editor you want to use, and you have it. You know end with MD or dot mkd, and then you run this this one simple command, KD RFC ran down our f ck DRC and that in the markdown file name and that's it, it generates an XML file for you and it generates your text file for you. It has all of the you know appropriate formatting. You can submit directly from those files. You can submit them directly into the data tracker, and this is that's my tool.

J

Change when I'm creating stuff now is I. Just go and I write this file and markdown I do Katie, RFC and then I just upload those files you you can find more at this URL that's shown for for carson's repo on github. He did. Let me know that if, for some reason your system does not have utf-8 support in it, it should these days, but if you're, somehow using an old system, something you may have unpredictable things. If you put utf-8 into your markdown file, you just wanted me to let to warn people about that.

J

You also can, if you want to just experiment with this or if your system doesn't support Ruby or something like that, you can also just go and use the CREM down converter, that's on the tools experimental page. Basically, what you would just do is create your markdown file.

J

You can go to this experimental page, you can upload the file and then it will spit out the XML file, which then you would have to run through XML to RC, so a little bit easier, in my opinion, to use it locally, but it is also possible to use the online tools out there to work with it. It's based on something a variant of markdown called cramdown, which was developed by a Thomas Lightner. If you want to see all of the syntax, you can go to that URL and we'll show you.

J

You know all of the various different things you can do inside of the file. You begin your file with these three dashes and then the header uses yamo. So you would just go and put something like this at the beginning, your title abbreviation all those kinds of things. If you want to incorporate references, you know like as Matt was talking about earlier. The syntax is is really simple. You just go inside the file and you say for a normative reference.

J

You would just put the curly brace curly, brace exclamation point and in whatever it is, you want to have for the normative reference and in two closed curly braces to do it or to make an informative reference.

J

You would put a question mark instead of that, if you're referencing drafts, you do the same thing, you remove the word draft from the name and you put a capital y capital d dot whatever at the beginning, but you can just put those in there and then the creme down the kdr seat will automatically pull the references and put it into its local cache and just build all that for you, so you don't have to get into doing. X includes or any other different pieces like that.

J

You just put that put it in quite like that.

J

There's a lot of references out there there's a lot of pieces that you can go and find examples that are around there. um I have a tutorial repo that has some examples there. Martin Thompson also has a lengthy git repo that has all sorts of tools for getting started, and he has a variety of different kinds of drafts and features that are there and he works with both the crown. The cramdown annieandmark formats, so that was really all I was gonna. Show is talk about it's.

J

It's really that easy and I could talk a little bit more I can show a couple examples of people want, but markdowns a new tool. There's a number of new different tool chains are being created that let us go and create these drafts. Very simply, you can embed some XML, some HTML inside of the files. If you want to do something more example, more advanced and I think that's really it to tell you that there's two RFC's you can look at one is about the repository one's about the design guidelines.

J

Carstens got this this repo up there with his tool. I have a repo which has this slide set and some of the other examples and examples that are out there. There is also a mailing list, RFC markdown, which a number of us are on, and people are very receptive to talking to you about different tools and things that are there and and there's a survey and that's it so questions alright, I.

K

I'll know today, so I wish I had this plantation a month ago, before I did my first ID on markdown.

K

My experience is that it's pretty easy I must say you have to make your experiments, but there's one thing that made me suffer a lot was to enter all the references, because if you miss a single space in the reference, when you have to indent everything, if you have one character wrong, the Kramden RFC does not really tell you where exactly it is right. I could not find a way exactly where I work where to find it so I had 50 plus references. I can tell you.

K

It was very, very long to find exactly where it was so anyway. So, apart from that, yeah I wish I had the foundation before, because I learnt a few things. So thank you very much. Thanks.

J

Yeah well Karstens here. Actually, if you want to not not in the room, but he said he's been in the hackathon, if you want to point out that to him he's very receptive to comments and feedback like this I would also say to one of the nice things with markdown. That I found is that it makes it really. It works really well, when you're, using a git repository to to collaborate with other people, because the insertions and the the diffs the to go and work with.

J

That is a whole lot easier than when you're working with XML and you wind up having to reflow stuff and things get in different pages and stuff on that line. So there's a comment.

L

There DJ, oh yeah, I, think just a good question. You mentioned. There is alternative tool and well you said this is a preferred. Can you say why it's not preferred? It was.

J

A case of I just have a few minutes to talk here and so I was just using KD KD RFC. Is this a little bit easier in terms of just how you go and reference it? It's got this KD RFC command, it's very simple and mark. You have to go a few more command-line options on, but I mean my earlier drafts were written using M mark. The difference is are not that much. It's really just.

L

Pick one coat when we're saying I looked at I Anna. Well, it's not a protocol registry. Much Teresa I am are down registering. There is difference between all these things. Like you know, cuz I know, I I do write more down, sometimes I know there's like a basic and there's people try to make it better right, so so embrace extends. So it's that really important. So.

J

Let me back up a question. One thing would be to if you, as far as the tools go, Chrome downs, written in will be available there and and Marcus written and go so there's partly a you know: language choice. If you want to look at it or if you want to do anything with that or won it in different forms, they also the to diverge slightly in some of the syntax, like the references makes code uses, I think square brackets instead of angled braces and so there's a couple of different systems out of there.

J

But it's really a question of which one you want to use that are there for those who want to install tools with out without doing all the install on your own system. Paul Jones has created a docker image of Meeks set of tools, so that was another way to run that one easier. It's just you know you can experiment really the one.

J

As far as the registry, I was not directly involved with the creation of that or anything around, that my understanding was it's created primarily for other people and tools to be able to have some understanding of what the different variants.

L

Are so that's so, but is good to know that if you use one tool chain and switch your text file wouldn't work correctly, because it's.

J

Markdown right there's no standard, it's not standardized you to pick which variant you're, gonna use just like. If you.

H

Use github flavored.

J

Markdown for something and the.

H

Intelligence emojis on flavors.

J

Different in syntax and.

H

J

Write the basics: they all support. You know John Gruber's original basics, but then they go on from there to do other different pieces, cool things.

D

E

Come and I think. Well. We had a comment, someone saying that you have to reference old. You have to put two older reference in the header, but I don't think that's necessary. So you just put brackets and right.

J

It's no in in lockdown, you don't have to go and put all the references in there. You can just put literally like in here in this example that I've shown here I'm not showing the reference on there. If you scroll down I'm, just gonna like there and in this line to do introduction, more information can be found in blah. You can literally just reference the the draft or the RFC right in the text. You do not have to have your list of references first, what okay, Mike, Bishop singing you please it's a more recent addition.

D

K

You have a question as.

J

Sebastian we just let you come into the queue, but then you disappeared. So if you want to come back, maybe that's you all right, we'll get Sebastian here.

J

D

K

Well, go ahead all right, so I saw in the previous presentation that so there is a story moving from a version 2 to a version. Trees I saw a lot of new vocabulary added or changed when we are in Kramden I guess all of this is taken care of right already or when you produce from crown down to XML, so go ahead and read one up.

F

As far as I know, nobody has adapted any of the markdown tools to work with, with version 3, yet I'm sure that that they will. But no.

F

Let's see, there's someone who has done work, some experimentation with with v3, and he also has a tool so I'm going to send a query, but currently I don't know of a tool that does sweet really for.

K

That you have to ask two things to Caston: Ranas fix the interface and to thank you, yeah.

J

Bye, my understanding was I, think they're looking at you know, but I don't know if they definitely had that support. Yet other questions comments yep somebody coming over here and Sebastian if you want to get back in the queue we'd be glad to have your question.

M

Part of the RFC production Center thanks so much for these presentations.

M

The point I wanted to make goes back to the first one when there are questions about SVG and how do you know your SVG is going to be accepted and there's been a tool created called SVG check, which is for this purpose, which will compare it against the SVG set. That's been defined in RFC 768.

M

Check is available right now from pi PI, so it's pi PI projects SVG check, but it will eventually be a web service, so you could upload your XML file. I would tell you if your SVG is okay for the subset of tiny SVG, that's accepted or an individual SVG file, and it also attempts to correct your SVG to make it match that profile, and the other thing I was going to say was regarding the previous question.

M

If anyone has updated their markdown tool to use the v3 vocabulary, I think m-mark has started the work on that and it's on his his in mark page thanks.

J

Other questions or comments anything.

A

J

Vasiliy another try.

N

I

We go, does yes, we even see you yay.

N

I'm starting to write, RFC's and I've, been playing around with these tools by martin thompson and that cramdown I was wondering, if there's a good reference to all the options and keywords and values that, like there's a lot of things like, including snippets and I'm, not sure where to find those does that mention in there.

J

So I guess there's two things, one in the syntax of super-heroes. So if you look at.

J

Carson's Carson's repo has some information in there and may have I. Don't know if he's got the exact list of features inside of there. The other piece is in Martin's thing: I put a URL down there for some of the features that are in there. That may be, where he's got more of it, there's a couple of other different drafts that that you could take a look at and also quite honestly, if you look at much of I think pretty much all of the drafts written in the quick working group these days, Oh markdown.

J

So in quick, if you look at those like pretty much all of that and I also believe the HDTV bits working group is mostly all marked down as well. So if you look at those, you could see examples from their actual code of how they've gone and done that. That's also a great example of maybe another thing we could do with adding on some more to some more neuron worked in to tutorial Docs.

J

All right anything else, Sebastian no.

N

Thank you very much. I'll take a look at that I guess: I've been looking at all these examples from the DOE group.

N

Is there any difference between the.

N

Sorry, I'm not sure what to call, but you can submit for the standards track under an area or you can submit an independent stream medic. Is there any difference in the markdown for that I'm? Seeing a lot of examples from like the quick and HTTP and oh and they're all submitted under working groups? Is there a difference in markdown format that I would get from those examples?

N

J

I think the the format would be the same. It would just be in the header what'd you put, for you know the working group for the stream or or whatever the piece would be, and if you want to do it, if you're looking at it for independent stream or something fire, one of us an email, and we can help. You find that if you, if you need to put on the RFC markdown list right, listen, thank you all right sure.

J

Anything else. Yes question here.

J

H

In general, I've been using Mac done for all the other purposes, not for the IDE editing. The problem that I faced in general was adding comments to the document and there is no easy way of doing it. You have to use a stabilized XML format to add comments in the markdown itself, so I'm wondering there two questions that I have so in general. In XML we use the comment style, rice.

G

H

Same command style has to be applied in markdown as well in the for the idea dish that.

D

So so mark there and ultimately we'll take, may the supplied format but ultimately we'll take your XML, our HTML and plop it in work where it can so you can I haven't tried this recently, but I I. Believe I've myself have a markdown draft that I've put in comments using the XML comment brackets so Kitka.

H

Can that be simplified I mean? Is it possible that it looks pretty weird and the other question that I have is that's.

G

Fair, that's fair! Go.

H

Ahead, the other question that I have is: will those comments, be I mean the cramdown tool I'm, not I've, not used. That already say, but will that tool in Corbett incorporate those comments in the XML as well or will it just discard those comments? Well, so.

J

I I don't know.

H

I think that's the third question for Carson I guess he was.

J

Gonna come actually but he's probably over at the hackathon working on something there yeah.

D

I believe I believe at one point it did I, don't know if it still does yeah. Okay, thank you sure.

J

J

All right: well, then, that I'll be around for a few more minutes and please do take the short survey and again, please join either the the RFC markdown list or the XML list. If you're interested in being involved with more of these tools and like we said Karsten Borman is the author of cramdown he's here, I, don't know where their makes here, but I've seen Karsten around anyway and he'd be glad to talk to you about tools all right. Thank you very much and.

C

I'll make bishop I'll point out that I'm doing a tutorial specifically on the ID template in the next time slot and it's ten stairs. Yes,.

J

C

You'd like to go.

J

There and see how the ID template works with github and other pieces. Please go, follow, Mike and see you down there. Thank you.