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From YouTube: IETF105-WGLUNCH-20190724-1215
Description
WGLUNCH meeting session at IETF105
2019/07/24 1215
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/proceedings/
A
A
This
this
is
an
IETF
meeting.
This
is
a
note.
Well,
so
anything
all
of
the
standard
rules
of
the
note
will
apply.
You
all
are
working
group
chairs
or
leadership
of
some
for
some
form
or
another.
So
I'm
sure
you
understand
the
note
well,
the
next
thing
is
administrative,
so
the
agenda,
no,
no,
no,
not
the
education.
B
Do
we
need
to
turn
the
mic
and
no
microphone
how's
that
okay,
you
all
may
have
heard
that
I'm
working
on
changing
the
RFC
format.
Is
this
a
surprise
to
anybody
in
this
room?
You're,
lyin?
Okay,
so
as
a
reminder,
primary
goals,
xml
is
the
under
changing
underlying
format
means
you
don't
edit
the
document
once
it's
published.
It
doesn't
mean
that
the
vocabulary
doesn't
ever
change.
Ever
again,
the
outputs
will
be
text
PDF
a3,
which
is
an
archival
target
and
HTML
there
will
be
SVG.
B
B
C
B
The
RFC
production
center
is
working
very
hard
to
make
sure
that
they
are
ready
by
the
end
of
August
of
this
year
to
be
published.
V3
documents,
there's
there's
still
a
little
bit
of
question.
Well,
the
tools
be
quite
ready
and,
of
course,
the
end
end
process.
At
this
point
you
can
submit
v3
XML
into
the
data
tracker,
and
you
know
how
many
of
them
there
are
11.
B
B
There
are
a
couple
of
URLs
up
there.
One
is
sort
of
the
just
the
high-level
checklist
of
what
things
do
we
need
to
do
and
when
do
we
expect
to
have
them
done
by
for
implementing
from
the
RFC
editors
perspective
and
another
thing-
and
this
is
though,
if
you
get
nothing
else
out
of
me
talking
to
you
today,
the
FAQ
XML
to
RFC
v3
HTML,
go
there
bookmark.
It
make
sure
your
folks
have
seen
it,
because
it's
going
to
answer
a
lot
of
questions
about
how
do
I
do
or
what?
B
B
So,
as
we
get
more
questions,
we
will
be
updating
this,
but
that's
that's
probably
one
of
the
best
resources
we're
putting
out
right
now
tell
people
know
what
to
do
in
that
FAQ.
Some
of
the
highlights
basics:
how
to
create
a
draft
using
references,
because
guess
what
the
RSC
editor.
We
really
care
about.
Those
references
use
how
to
use
lists.
Some
finer
points
about
C
data
as
special
characters
and
just
new
and
B
3.
B
How
do
I
do
the
following
thing:
Krista,
stuff
right
now:
the
RPC
is
actively
training
converting
v2
files
to
be
three
files
asking
people
for
input
on
that
the
files
are
being
reviewed
by
tools
developers
and
by
volunteers
on
the
XML
to
RFC
dev
list,
the
RPC
will
be
sharing
files
with
authors
that
they've
said
you
know
you
seem
friendly
and
willing
to
work
with
us.
So
please
help
us
review
these
things.
They
won't
get
published
as
v3,
but
but
help
us
kick
the
tires
on
what
the
process
we
think
will
look
like.
B
So,
if
you
you
may
hear
from
sandy
and
Alice
and
crew
as
they,
they
ask
for
specific
help,
a
little
more
just
additional
information.
What
are
we
going
to
expect
in
all
48,
because
when
we
get
to
the
point,
where
we're
ready
to
say
we
are
switching
over
what's
in
the
off
48
queue
as
V
2
will
be
converted
to
V
3
files.
The
RPC
will
do
that.
B
The
authors
that
had
perhaps
already
approved
their
document-
you
know
maybe
2
out
of
3
authors-
have
approved
it's
not
3
off
48.
Yet,
with
all
the
approvals
they're
going
to
asked,
be
asked
to
review
it
again
and
redo
their
approvals
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
this
right
and
then,
as
I
mentioned,
where
we're
aiming
to
be
ready
to
get
this
done
by
the
28th
of
August.
B
The
one
other
point
I
threw
in
here
so
as
I
mentioned,
this
is
going
to
mean
documents
take
longer
to
get
published.
There's
three
where
we
used
to
be
looking
at
the
text.
Format
now
we're
looking
at
okay,
but
this
the
HTML
right
is
the
text
right
is
the
PDF
right
is
the
new
XML
right,
so
there's
definitely
gonna
be
more
work
there
and
because
the
gods
are
very
unkind,
cluster
238
it's
going
to
release
about
the
same
time,
so
we
are
absolutely
expecting
to
miss
the
service
level
agreement.
E
F
B
F
C
F
B
If
you,
if
you'd
like
bonus,
points
and
gold
stars
sure,
but
that
was
never
in
my
head
for
y'all
to
have
to
do
at
least
from
my
perspective-
and
perhaps
it's
a
bit
naive
with
the
HTML,
it's
what
you
see.
That's
going
to
be
particularly
important
with
that,
because
the
it's
the
XML,
that's
it's
like
the
normative
language
and
being
transformed
and
everything.
So
any
other
questions
for
me.
G
Yeah,
this
would
be
very
quick.
I
spoke
with
y'all
IETF
104.
Try
to
remember,
which
number
is
which
and
I
wanted
to
just
give
a
quick
follow-up
on
that
about
behavior
of
behavior
in
your
working
groups
and
our
request
to
you
to
help
us
make
it
better.
So
the
message
we
want
to
give
you
is
that
the
the
message
we
want
to
give
the
community
is
that
the
IETF
community
as
a
whole
does
not
accept
insulting
abusive,
unprofessional,
behavior,
that
sort
of
thing,
and
we
expect
to
be
treated
respectfully.
Even
during
strong
disagreement.
G
We
will
help
you
with
it.
We'd,
like
you
to
be
very
active
in
in
pushing
this
down
to
the
community
and
if
needed,
we
are
looking
at
ways
to
get
some
resources
for
techniques
to
help
you
and
that
sort
of
thing.
So
this
isn't
the
last
word
you're
going
to
hear
from
the
iesg
about
it.
But
now
you're
going
to
hear
some
stuff
from
the
Ombuds
team.
H
So
Melinda
said
that
she
will
what
her
two
cents
in
as
we
go
along
here
so
I
expect.
Many
of
you
are
aware
that
some
of
the
ietf
nameless
discussion
has
generated
heat.
In
addition
to
light,
and
some
of
that
heat
is
a
little
hot,
so
we've
been
talking
for
some
time
about
what
you
all
can
do
to
help.
We,
the
Ombuds
team
and
some
folks
from
the
isg,
had
a
meeting
on
Wednesday,
know
Monday
Monday
Monday
at
lunch.
Thank
you.
H
It's
such
a
long
week,
the
other
Wednesday
with
some
folks
and
we're
looking
to
bring
in
other
resources
professional
resources
to
sort
of
help.
With
this
we
understand
that
none
of
us
in
leadership-
and
none
of
you
as
chairs
in
general,
have
been
hired
on
the
basis
of
your
wonderful
and
incredible
HR
management
abilities.
H
We
are
all
in
the
same
boat.
We
learn
as
we
go.
Some
of
us
have
more
experience
some
less,
but
we
want
to
start
to
give
you
some
ideas.
Some
hints
about
how
to
go
forward
and
how
to
manage
your
groups.
That
will
help
this
along
and,
as
you
have,
questions,
bring
them
up,
and
you
can
do
that
on
the
working
group
chairs
list.
You
can
do
that
directly
to
the
Ombuds
team.
H
There
are
techniques
that
you
can
use
that
will
help
this
along.
The
main
problem
that
I've
seen
so
far
is
a
lot
of
inconsistency,
which
is
people
start
acting
a
little
rambunctious
and
it
gets
let
go
and
then
it
gets.
Let
go
a
little
further
and
then
chair.
Whoever
panic
sets
in.
Oh,
my
god.
I
have
to
do
something
about
this.
This
has
gotten
out
of
hand
and
then
the
action
start
to
look
arbitrary.
H
So
you
want
to
start
those
conversations.
As
someone
is
getting
a
little
heated,
maybe
awfulest
drop
a
note
say:
let's
just
make
sure
to
keep
this
in
check,
and
one
of
the
nice
things
you
can
do
is
get
that
person
on
board
with
you.
We
want
to
show
other
folks
in
the
group,
especially
the
new
folks,
that
this
is
not
the
way
to
go.
It
would
be
ever
so
nice
if
you
a
person
who
did
this
little
offense
would
post
and
say
you
know
what
I
got
a
little
heated
there.
H
Sorry
about
that,
let's
try
that
again
without
as
much
rambunctiousness,
you
can
do
that.
It's
also
very
important
to
do
the
same
kinds
of
things
in
your
working
group
sessions.
We
consistently
see
chairs
who
sit
up
at
the
table
and
are
not
paying
attention
to
what's
going
on
at
the
mics.
It's
well
they're
having
a
conversation
I'll,
let
it
go
until
it
gets
out
of
control
and,
generally
speaking,
you
have
a
second
chair.
You
can
whisper
to
your
second
chair.
Could
you
go
whisper
in
that
person's
ear?
H
I
I
I
I
have
absolutely
to
thank
the
people
in
the
IETF
who
actually
helped
us
because
I
wasn't
point,
there
was
threats
of
violence
and
the
Boston
Police
was
involved
and
I
agreed
that
there
is
a
lot
of
things
that
you
should
do,
but
I
think
we're
basically
nonviolent
people
and
when
people
start
having
bad
behavior
we'll
let
it
go
because
we
do
not
want
to
confront
the
person
and
I
don't
know
if
there
are
ways
to
do
that.
In
our
case,
it
really
got
bad
and
it's
actually
the
fun.
I
You
think
that
you
know
when
we
were
in
the
middle
of
it,
which
was
last
year.
We
were
told
that
it
was
not
the
first
time
which
I
found
was
amazing,
because
I
thought
we
were
so
you
know
out
of
it,
but
I
would
say
I
agree
with
all
with
what
you
said,
but
I
think
I
don't
know
how
that
can
be
done,
but
sometimes
within
the
group
you
will
not
have
the
resources,
because
we're
involved,
we
know
the
person.
I
In
our
case
we
knew
the
person
from
other
activities,
I
think
I,
don't
know
if
there's
a
way
to
have
some
kind
of
link
in
between
the
groups
when
you
start
having
someone
who
is
completely
out
of
it.
But
for
us
we
tried
everything.
You
said
we
confronted
the
person,
we
confronted
the
person.
Personally,
we
confronted
the
person
via
Skype,
we
confronted
the
person
and
actually
every
time
it
was
getting
worst.
So
this
is
my
comment.
I
think
everything
you
said,
I
think
works.
Well.
If
you
think
that
people
are
fairly
rational
right.
H
H
Excellent
point
and
something
that
we
should
all
keep
in
mind.
There
is
no
time
at
which
it's
too
early
to
escalate.
Okay,
right
that
you
know
the
ADEs
are
there,
we
are
we,
as
the
Ombuds
team
are
here
and
they're
escalating
to
quickly
can't
happen
right,
someone,
someone
does
something
and
it
gets
to
us,
and
we
say
you
know
what
not
time
to
escalate.
Yet
no
big
deal
with
that,
but
yeah
having
the
ability
to
have
the
community.
H
Certainly
asking
questions
of
other
chairs
on
the
working
group
chairs
list
is
fine,
but
that
one
sounds
like,
and
eventually
you
got
to
you
just
had
to
escalate
all
the
way
up
and
I.
Think
no
one
should
be
worried
about
doing
that.
No
one
should
feel
like
they
have
to
do
any
of
this
on
their
own.
That's
that
that's
the
worst
possible
outcome.
H
We
do
need
to
act
as
a
community,
so
yeah
I
don't
want
to
minimize
exactly
what
you
were
talking
about
by
saying
they're,
all
these
little
tools,
that's
for
the
general
case,
and
we
all
know
that
we
I
mean
we
have
hit
multiple
of
those
cases
on.
Although
physical
violence
is
really
rare
to
be
threatened,
but
thankfully
but
yeah
it
has
to
be
dealt
with
quickly.
Jeff.
E
Has
so
I
want
us
to
share
some
experience
from
other
mailing
list
context
that
I
have
done
moderated
other
listened
various
forms
within
the
people
that
are
very
hot-headed,
hungry
hot
topics,
and
it's
been
my
experience
that
when
things
have
started,
you
know
heating
up
past
a
certain
point,
the
feedback
cycle
of
it
being
semi.
Real-Time
is
what
tends
to
cause
things
to
go
a
little
bit
crazy.
You
know
everybody
that
is
running
a
mailing
list.
Any
of
your
their
chairs.
E
Have
you
know
log
in
for
a
mailman
to
be
able
to
manage
your
mail
lists,
have
minimally
a
tool
on
there.
That's
called
emergency
moderation.
You
can
click
this
button
and
every
bit
of
mail
to
the
list.
Just
stops
you
you
can
at
that
point
control
which
ones
actually
go
through
and
if
necessary,
you
can
selectively
moderate
people.
This
is
not
saying
your
job
is
to
censor
the
people,
but
just
simply
by
introducing
that
delay
and
the
responses
things
sometimes
can
get
better
on
their
own.
H
Suresh
mentioned
directly
that
he
did
this
as
a
chair
with
one
working
group
and
the
effective
tool
for
him
was
he
turned
on
moderation
completely
and
then
went
to
the
individuals
and
said
I'm
moderating
this?
Do
you
really
want
me
to
post
this?
As
is,
and
he
said
he
got
a
pretty
good
response
of
a
lot
of
people.
Saying
no,
that's
okay,
and
this
is
the
thing
I
mean
I.
H
Think
most
of
the
participants
are
rational
and
will
respond
well,
and
some
of
them
will
continue
to
be
hot-headed
and
will
need
to
deal
with
them
in
a
different
way,
but
yeah
I
moderating
the
list.
You
are
completely
empowered
to
do.
One
of
the
other
things
you
should
note
that
you
are
completely
empowered
to
do
is
during
a
working
group
session,
refuse
the
mic
to
someone.
If
someone
is
getting
out
of
control,
you
can
have
them
sit
down
and
say:
that's
it
you're
not
getting
up
to
the
mic
again
and
that's
a
24
18.
F
Benedick
I
was
also
talking
to
Suresh
and
just
to
point
out
that
the
caveat
to
that
is
that
it
only
stops
traffic
to
the
list.
So
if
a
message
is
sent
to
the
list
and
the
other
person
they're
being
hot-headed
with
the
individual,
the
single
copy
still
goes
to
the
other
individual,
and
it's
just
be
aware
of
that.
You
know.
Yes,
this
is
a
very
effective.
H
G
H
So
when
Melinda
and
I
were
talking,
we
thought
this
would
be
sort
of
freeform.
Do
you
have
any
questions
of
approaches?
Do
you
want
to
talk
about
particular
instances?
Name
names,
don't
name
names
whatever
you
like,
but
we
are
being
recorded
and
we
are
being
you
know
we
are
being
NIDA
code
and
all
that
stuff.
J
One
thing
I
want
to
highlight:
is
it
it's
okay
for
people
to
be
angry
and
it's
okay
for
them
to
express
that
anger
that
doesn't
need
to
be
stopped?
That's
when
they're,
abusive
and
hostile
and
causing
other
people
to
be
abusive
and
hostile,
because
we
know
that
participants
do
model
other
participants
behavior
that
there
needs
to
be
an
intervention.
So
it's
not
the
anger
and
I.
You
know
I
think
that
a
lot
of
people
here
are
actually
capable
and
do
frequently
express
anger
in
a
very
straightforward
way,
and
that's
that's
good.
C
But
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
it's
it's
all
very
well
to
say
that
you
know
we
have
the
formal
authority
to
do
that,
but
probably
most
of
us
certainly
I,
have
encountered
more
than
once
the
case
where
some
of
these
filibustering
and
won't
sit
down-
and
you
know
sometimes
it
you
know-
turns
into
a
shouting
match
between
the
chair
and
the
person
who's
filibustering,
I,
wonder
if
it
might
help
to
have
a
mic
cut
button.
Although
you
know
it's,
it's
tempting
to
always
have
a
technological
solution
to
a
human
problem,
so.
H
I
an
earlier
conversation
reminded
me
of
this.
You
should
have
come
if
you
are
finding
contentious
meetings
right
that
you're
running
contentious
meetings.
You
should
have
the
conversation
with
your
ad
upfront
right.
You
aren't
power
to
do
that,
but
you
need
absolute
unequivocal
backup
from
your
ad
to
pull
that
off.
So
when
you
say,
John
sit
down,
you're
done
at
the
mic
and
the
person
keeps
going,
and
you
say
it
the
second
time
by
the
third
time
your
ad
should
be
standing
up
and
going.
This
is
John's
call
he
is
chairing
this
meeting.
H
H
Luckily,
that's
not
gonna,
be
the
case,
and,
and
the
comment
can
be,
you
need
to
sit
down
until
you
know
you're
not
being
abusive
anymore,
and
we
can
talk
after
the
meeting
about
this
or
whatever
and
also
try
and
keep
your
cool
about
it
because
it
gets
harder
and
harder.
The
more
amped
up
you
get
so
with.
F
2007
is
on
a
list,
did
that
change
recently,
so
what's
the
difference
between
that
process
and
what
you
just
described,
where
you
can
actually
flag,
I'm
gonna
moderate
that
person
wondering
the
whole
list
is
probably
something
you
can
get
away
with
in
a
crisis.
But
if
moderating,
one
person
we
have
a
process
for
that
to
take
steps
to
get
to.
So,
what's
due.
H
H
F
H
K
Collin
Parkins,
just
on
the
the
meeting
management
side,
I've
seen
working
groups
that
have
post
the
meeting
and
taken
a
10-minute
break
carefully.
So
it
on
the
meeting,
management's,
I've,
seen
working
groups,
take
a
pause
and
take
a
10-minute
break
in
the
middle
to
let
things
come
down,
which
is
sometimes
a
good
approach.
M
Working
yes,
I'm,
Rochelle,
cotton,
I'm
with
Diana
and
yes,
I
did
post
a
question
to
the
list.
We
did
get
a
suggestion
about
having
a
maybe
a
short
little
video
directed
at
a
working
group
chair
on
helpful
hints
for
how
to
do
something
related
to
your
Ana
considerations,
and
it
got
us
thinking
a
little
bit
more.
We
wanted
to
open
up
the
discussion
to
you
all
and
not
necessarily
get
the
feedback
today,
but
at
least
get
you
thinking
as
you
review
documents
in
your
working
group,
especially
new
ones
coming
in.
M
Is
there
any
type
of
resource
any
type
of
material?
Maybe
it
is
a
short
little
video.
Maybe
it's
something
else
that
would
help
you
either
you
and
your
in
your
position
as
working
group
chair
or
something
you
can
say
to
one
of
your
authors
go
watch
this
go
look
at
this.
We
do
have
RFC
8126.
It
is
a
beast.
M
That
is
often
the
first
time
we're
looking
at
documents
and
in
those
documents
there
could
be
a
request
for
some
parameters
in
an
expert
review
registry,
and
so
at
that
time
we
initiate
the
expert
review
and
sometimes
it's
a
little
bit
late.
Sometimes
maybe
there's
no
expert
for
that
registry,
and
so
it
takes
time
to
get
the
expert
aside
and
then
get
the
request
to
them.
Sometimes
the
experts
can
take
a
little
while
so
we've
been
trying
to
figure
out
how
we
can
try
to
move
that
a
little
bit
of
review
earlier
into
the
process.
M
M
Just
looking
at
my
notes
here,
I
think
that's
mostly
at
Barry
and
I
are
working
on
an
update
to
8126
to
add
in
a
few
things
and
fix
a
couple
areas
in
there.
So
if
there's
something
that
you
feel
like
is
violently
missing
from
there,
we
would
also
like
to
hear
that
so
either
in
person
here
or
if
you
want
to
go
back
and
think
about
it
and
as
you're
working,
please
send
us
email
or
to
the
working
group
chairs
list
where
we're
just
happy
to
listen.
N
I'm
sure
that
noticeable
follow-up
was
just
really
made
only
list,
which
is
much
as
we
respect
to
value
the
work
of
Ayana.
Many
considerations
are
often
one
of
the
last
things
the
authors
get
to.
So
what
I
was
going
to
suggest
on
the
squish
cream
in
here
was
in
the
same
way
that
we
have
templates
for
for
draft
write-ups.
If
there
are
common
cases,
are
the
common
cases
Ayana
sees
where
if
the
authors
were
just
used,
this
text
every
time
I
Anna,
wouldn't
have
to
spend
time,
parsing,
Putt,
Putt
parson,
but
the
author.
N
But
templates
mean
the
thinking
is:
look
if
the
author
Isaac,
if
lots
of
runs
using
a
clever
with
a
brand
new
registry,
go
read,
8126
and
and
stop
complaining.
However,
they
just
want
to
do
something
routine.
Just
out
ketta
point.
If
you
had
a
template,
what
might
you
might
start
seeing
the
template
takes
coming
back
every
time
and
it's
one
glance:
okay,
I,
okay,
the
I
interview
is
exactly
the
author
wanted,
as
opposed
to
oh,
you
left
that
name
in
the
registry
or
wait
a
minute
you
need
to.
N
O
M
O
P
So
Michelle
we
talked
about
this.
This
is
Dave
waltemeyer.
We
talked
about
this
briefly
earlier
in
the
week.
You
know
I'm
a
programmer,
I
think
about
things
and
design
patterns.
You
know
a
lot
of
the
IANA
registrations.
You
know
tend
to
follow
some
fairly
common.
You
know
patterns,
it
might
be
useful
to
organize
templates
and
some
some
guidance
around.
You
know
developing
an
Diana
registry
and
to
follow
certain
common
patterns.
You
know
things
like
this
is
a
register.
That's
how
you
do
a
registry
of
registries.
This
is
how
you
do
a
simple
indexed
registry.
P
You
know
that
that
has
a
name
and
an
index
number.
You
know,
you
know
things
that
that
are
sort
of
repeating
concepts
that
exist
in
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
drafts.
We
might
even
be
able
to.
You
know,
take
a
look
at
you.
Do
it
do
a
brief
survey
and
see
where
there's
a
lot
of
commonality
across
you
know
drafts
and
try
to
develop
a
shortlist
of
design
patterns
to
focus
on
first
and.
M
In
in
that
document,
that
I
mentioned
that's
linked
from
8126,
we
do
have
some
of
those
very
frequently
used
samples.
You
know
often
there
a
number
column,
a
description,
column
and
a
reference
or
some
some
variation
of
that.
So
we
can
look
at
that
more
and
see
how
we
can
present
it.
The
other
way
and.
P
D
This
is
Robert
sparks
I'm,
going
to
bring
the
conversation
back
to
the
point
that
you
made
about
trying
to
push
recognizing.
That
expert
review
needs
to
happen
impossibly
initiating
that
expert
review
earlier
in
the
process.
I
wonder
if
it
would
be
possible
to
develop
a
culture
in
working
groups
across
working
groups
where
there's
an
expectation
on
authors
to
put
in
there
I
in
a
consideration
section,
even
if
they
are
pasting
it
in
at
the
very
last
minute,
before
the
draft
submission
an
explicit
statement
about
whether
or
not
the
registry
they're
touching
needs
expert
review.
D
So
we
train
them,
train
the
individual
authors
to
learn
how
to
know
whether
or
not
an
expert
review
needs
to
happen
so
that
they
know
how
to
put
this
in
it's
in
and
it
can.
You
know
we
can
I,
don't
want
to
dive
too
deep
in
and
the
mechanics.
The
draft
would
need
to
have
something
where
he
didn't
end
up
lying
around
in
the
RSC
at
the
end,
so
it
could
be
in
in
the
you
know.
D
Rfc
editor,
please
remove
this
kind
of
kind
of
bracket,
but
we
just
set
the
expectation
that,
when
these
drafts
come
in
when
they're
you
know
when,
when
they're
submitted
is
working
group
drafts
anything
anytime,
it's
touching
a
registry.
There
is
a
sentence
in
there
that
the
author
populates
saying
this
requires
expert.
Reviewer
does
not
require
expert
review.
M
So
definitely
a
kind
of
a
culture
change
there
on
what
we
expect
authors
to
be
doing
may
think
a
little
bit
about
whether
there's
some
type
of
resource.
We
could
provide
that
working
group
chairs
could
point
authors
to
and
say
hey
before.
You
are
asking
me
to
do
a
final
review.
If
your
document
touches
any
I,
Anna
stuff
go
look
at
this
or
watch
this
or
read
this,
and
that
would
be
maybe
one
of
those
check
marks
on
there.
Robert.
D
The
would
learn
ahead
of
time.
There
is
a
barrier
to
having
my
RSC
published
that
that
you
know
he
might
not
otherwise
have
learned
until
the
thing
was
in
the
is
G's
hand,
and
he
is
G
member
figured
it
out.
The
chair,
who
might
not
have
been
paying
attention,
might
see
this
line
in
this
thing
you
know
don't
address
the
mission
and
say
oh
well,
I
should
cue
that
up
and
be
watching
for
the
point.
D
C
John
Scudder
so
to
the
earlier
comment
that
you
know
stuff
gets
pasted
in
30
minutes
before
the
the
deadline
and
then
never
touched
again.
If
it's
never
touched
again.
That
means
that
the
document
shepard
is
also
kind
of
calling
it
in
because
there's
like
a
specific
thing
in
the
document,
shepard
guidelines
that
says
you
know
the
document
shepherd
has
reviewed
the
Ayana
section
and
you
know
thinks
that
it's
not
broken,
so
you
know
number
one.
I
guess
you
know
for
us.
We
should
probably
make
sure
that
our
document
shepherds
are
actually
reviewing
those
ino
sections.
C
I
personally,
when
acting
as
document
shepherd,
have
pretty
much
completely
rewritten
more
than
one
of
those
I'm
afraid
and-
and
I
think
something
you
would
you
know
earlier-
you
were
talking
about
trading
materials
templates.
Where
do
we
link
those
from
etc
and
it
might
be
productive
to
stick
a
link
right
there
in
the
document
shepherd
template
that
says
over
here
is
where
the
templates
are
just
in
case.
You
need
to
rewrite
somebody's.
I
anna
section.
F
Rate,
I'm
also
a
mini
type
of
viewer.
There
are
plenty
of
terrible
examples
of
what
you
should
submit,
so
please
don't
copy
those.
The
problem
is,
of
course,
someone
writing
up.
A
template
doesn't
know
if
what
they're
looking
at
is
a
bad
example.
Things
change
over
time
of
what
we're
prepared
to
accept
the
role
or
not.
So
anything
we
can
do
to
arrange
to
encourage
authors
to
approach
reviewers
early
and
say
designated
experts
for
the
other
des
in
the
room.
First,
can
you
identify
that
who
a
reviewer
should
be?
F
And
secondly,
what
you
please
take
an
early
look
at
this,
because
if
I
can
avoid
a
round
trip
with
you,
because
all
round
trips
sometimes
take
a
while,
you
should
try
to
avoid
those
so
yeah
I
definitely
encourage
that
anything.
We
can
do
to
smooth
that
process
out.
We
get
a
lot
at
a
crap
and
the
might
and
then
mind
types
reviewers,
and
we
have
to
do
two
or
three
round
trips.
We.
M
Know
to
add
on
what
Marie
said.
We
also
offer
early
review
at
any
point
in
time
too,
you
don't
have
to
wait
till
last
call
to
review
a
document.
So
if,
as
working
your
chairs,
you
see
a
document
and
you're
like
oh
my
gosh,
this
section
is
absolutely
awful
and
you
know
you
can
also
tell
them:
hey:
go
contact,
Diana
and
and
they're
gonna
help
you
to
improve
your
section.
M
One
thing:
I
do
notice
at
IETF
meetings
is
that
we
are
getting
more
authors
coming
to
us
at
the
table
to
say
this
is
what
I
want
to
do.
How
do
I
do
it
and
when
their
document
goes
through,
there's
a
lot
less
pain
because
they've
already
done
it
the
right
way
from
the
very
beginning,
so
you
can
always
tell
them
to
contact
us
early
and
we
can
help
too.
Q
Brian
Rosen
two
things
by
far
the
most
common
I,
an
action
is
added,
add
a
value
to
a
registry.
We
could
automate
that
right.
You
know
what
the
shape
of
the
registry
is.
So
you
know
what
the
values
are,
so
you
could
put
up.
We
could
put
something
in
XML
RFC,
which
is
an
add,
a
value
function
that
you
know,
pull
down
what
registry
you're
doing
and
you
know
fill
it
all
in.
Q
J
Barber
start
so,
while
we're
on
the
topic
of
expert
review,
but
coming
at
it
from
the
other
side
of
things,
you
know
you
and
I
have
traded
emails
where
I
actually
try
and
come
from
broadband
forum
and
try
to
get
I
ana
stuff
and
it's
takes
forever.
You
know,
fortunately,
I
know
that
it's
going
to
take
forever.
J
M
M
That's
really,
of
course,
up
to
you
all
and
your
working
groups
of
what
you
want
to
choose.
Unfortunately,
with
the
requests
that
you've
experienced,
we
we've
the
issue
with
getting
fast
response
rates
and
we're
continuing
to
work
through
it,
and
we've
had
actually
some
additional
meetings
to
try
to
see.
If
we
can
improve
the
template
to
ask
the
right
questions,
so
we're
constantly
trying
to
think
about
how
we
can
make
things
easier,
better,
improve
the
doc
that
improve
the
information
when
we
originally
get
it.
So
there's
less
back-and-forth
with
experts.
It's
it's
something.
M
We
constantly
want
to
know
what
we
can
do
to
make
it
better
and
in
time,
because
we
have
a
couple
more
things
there
any
feedback
you
guys
have.
You
can
send
it
directly
to
me
you
can
send
it
to
our
Jana
at
Ayana,
org
or
on
the
working
group
chairs
list.
If
you
want
to
start
a
discussion
on
anything,
come
visit
us
at
the
table.
We
love
to
get
feedback.
We're
trying
to
find
some
common
themes
from
the
working
group
chairs
to
I
mean
help
your
lives
pretty
much,
which
ultimately
will
help
us.
S
So
I'd
really
had
just
one
question
which
I'll
ask
at
the
end,
but
I
wanted
to
see
the
question
with
some
discussion
around
meeting
minutes
and
talk
about.
Well,
maybe
some
of
the
reasons
why
we
have
meeting
minutes
and
after
I'd
put
imagine
some
but
I'm
sure
there
are
more
that
you
can
think
of
as
to
why
we
do
take
meeting
minutes
the
the.
How
is
this
a
little
bit
of
a
problematic
part
in
the
sense
that
we
have
to
find
someone
willing
to
take
those
minutes?
S
I
might
have
to
actually
go
to
some
tools
and
the
tools
are:
what
idea
provides
the
audio
stream,
the
media
Co
recordings,
and
he
there
was
even
a
suggestion
of
some
apps
that
have
been
developed
for
meeting
minutes.
So
maybe
we
should
be
using
those
so
by
virtue
of
the
fact
that,
oh
so
some
BC
peas-
and
this
is
just
a
view
of
me
and
my
co-chair-
that
we
tend
to
land
up
usually
using
the
minutes
that
were
taken
in
the
minutes
as
so-called
temporary
minutes.
S
You
need
to
have
something
in
place,
so
we
take
whatever
we
gather
in
the
meeting
and
we
have
had
at
least
one
occasion
where
the
audio
stream
went
down
and
we
actually
didn't
have
a
part
of
the
recording.
So
it
was
good
to
have
some
minutes,
but
really
at
the
end
of
the
effort.
What
happens?
Is
we
go
back
into
and
listen
to
the
stream
and
use
some
transcribing
to
to
get
the
output
of
the
and
then
edit
it
and
make
it
generally
available
as
the
meeting
minutes?
T
Or
just
a
data
point
for
the
for
the
plenary,
we
tried
to
do
an
automatic
transcript
a
couple
of
meetings
ago.
We
had
the
the
Secretariat
generated
and
take
a
look
at
it,
and
their
conclusion
was
that
the
amount
of
time
it
took
to
correct
that
automatically
generated
transcript
and
turn
it
into
language.
That
could
be
understood
by
somebody
who
hadn't
attended
the
plenary
or
watch
the
video
was
essentially
equivalent
to
the
amount
of
time
it
took
for
them
to
just
take
the
notes
from
watching
the
video.
So
we
decided
not
to
do
that.
T
I
think
I
think
there's
some
special
challenges
also
because
we
have
you
know
people
like
we
like,
sometimes
to
have
no
people's
names
as
you're.
Taking
the
minutes
attribution,
we
use
a
lot
of
acronyms
people
with
very
different
accents
from
all
around
the
world
and
I
think
some
of
the
tools
as
good
as
they've
gotten
still
struggle
with
with
those
aspects.
So
we
found
that
it
was
easier
to
just
have
somebody
take
the
minutes.
J
So
for
me,
I
actually
find
it
useful
to
have
it
the
very
least,
a
sequence
of
who
spoke
and
in
what
order.
So
then,
when
I
bring
up
the
video
stream
I
can
kind
of
find
that
place
in
the
video
stream
by
comparing
it
against
the
minutes,
and
then
I
can
listen
to
you
exactly
what
they
said.
But
you
know,
if
there's
a
brief
summary
of
kind
of
the
topic
of
what
they're
saying.
O
Decision
is
nearly
worthless
if
you
don't
know
the
reasons
for
it
and
retaking.
So
we
have
to
have
that
information.
I
originally
came
up
here
to
express
my
unhappiness
that
either
paired
crashed
four
times
during
our
morning
meeting,
but
really
the
one
thing
that
may
be
useful
to
you.
If
you
look
at
the
YouTube
recordings,
there
is
a
well
hidden
button
get
transcript.
So
if
you
have
to
enjoy
the
deliriousness,
you
know
where
to
get
it.
F
You
almost
took
all
the
wind
out
of
my
sails.
I'll,
give
you
an
example.
Suppose
all
you
record
is
the
decisions
made
and
the
only
decision
is
made.
Is
we
made
no
decision?
Let's
take
this
back
to
the
list.
If
you
don't
have
all
those
points
record
somewhere,
you're,
just
gonna
repeat
the
discussion
on
the
list.
So,
okay,
it's
really
important
to
have
at
least
the
summaries
Pia
was
talking
about
all.
F
I
think
one
of
the
things
this
is
pointing
out
is
there's
a
lot
of
uncertainty,
particularly
by
the
minute
takers
about
the
level
of
granularity
that
they
should
include,
and
we
need
to
have
some
guidelines
somewhere
and
we
need
to
have
them
somewhere
that
or
maybe
I
just
haven't,
found
him
yet,
but
somewhere
that
when
we
ask
for
volunteer
at
a
meeting.
They
know
what
level
of
stuff
to
write
in
in
the
notes.
Because
we're
often
asking
on
the
fly
for
a
note-taker
and
somebody
says
well
I'll
help.
U
A
K
P
A
Okay,
so
the
last
thing,
besides
open
mic,
which
we
are
not
going
to
get
to
today,
is
next
steps
for
edgy
activities.
We're
going
to
spend
a
little
bit
of
time
talking
about
what
a
Jew
activities
currently
are
and
what
we
might
do
with
them.
I
think
the
really
short
thing
that
I
want
to
get
to
all
of
you
on
is
we're
still
working
on
getting
it
fixed
on
the
slides,
but
on
the
data
tracker.
A
It
would
be
great
if
we
had
a
little
bit
better
materials
for
the
working
group
chairs,
and
you
know
there
might
be
an
opportunity
to
have
some
professional
and
developed
resources.
What
would
those
resources
need
to
be
so
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
work
that
needs
to
be
done
and
I
would
strongly
encourage
people
that
are
interested
in
this
space
to
join
the
edgy
team
and
not
as
you
discuss
as
you
team
and
we'll
get
all
that
fixed
eventually.