Internet Engineering Task Force 106, 17 Nov 2019

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From YouTube: IETF106-HOTRFC-20191117-1800

Description

HOTRFC meeting session at IETF106
2019/11/17 1800

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/proceedings/

A

Yeah yeah, don't worry it's friendly crab.

A

Yes, okay, so you're all warmed up.

A

B

A

Right, the whole idea is if you can find that community of people who want and the shared.

C

B

C

B

A

Can pull it I? You know there's a bit of a vetting process of like you know,.

B

How are you different and are you.

A

Reinventing wheels.

B

What is the to see from the camera like I, haven't.

A

But I feel like there's a there may be or.

C

Have been somebody else.

A

Involved in the.

A

A

D

C

Not written I'm kind of a transport.

A

A

C

It's not, that is.

A

That is in fact important to some people, but that's not you know when I say transport, I'm, talkin, TCP,.

E

Udp, yes, which.

D

A

B

The test port area.

A

Yes, well, I mean you know, they're, just labels. Is this your first night, but you did. They have like an orientation.

A

Only just barely works but well there's versus there's a good document called the Dow of the idea. Okay, that yeah, that was yeah yeah. It's there's like there's a bunch of keywords. You know in the community and unpacked some of those at least understand in.

B

What to conclude when these, it's the shared.

B

A

Process here is is different in some fundamental way.

A

Yeah and it's you know, it is an organization, that's that sort of research as its DNA and so there's.

A

Research sometimes may be things like routing documents, slowly.

A

So I think basically, so the goal of this session is to help identify people who will have something that they want to work on to help identify collaborators and yeah yeah. And so you know if you're you're, bringing you know.

A

One thing that.

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C

The whole sessions.

A

Gonna run probably about an hour and 15 minutes, so.

A

There we go okay, you are 12 out of 17, so you you're, probably about 45 minutes in, maybe maybe oh well. You probably got time to go ahead and grab some food and come back. You know.

F

A

Worry about it: okay, nice meeting, you Nick.

A

Okay, folks, let's get started it's about five after we've got 17 talks tonight and it's probably gonna take us I, think, probably a little bit over an hour to get through them. Usually things move pretty quickly, would somebody mind closing the door at the back of the room.

A

Thank you all a so my name is Erin Falk. This is the hot RFC lightning talk session. If this is the first one of these that you've been to. Let me just explain very briefly what it is. The idea here is to give a forum for folks who've got something that they want to work on an opportunity to find collaborators and to do it in a way that makes that's sort of an efficient use of time.

A

Lets us get through a lot of ideas, so we see things that are advertisements for boss, which are new work coming into the IETF or folks. Who've just got an idea, might not be at the boss stage or have a particular paper or a topic or a research area that they're looking for people who share that interest, so I think you're going to see a wide range of stuff tonight we try to do this at every ITF, and so, if you're inspired next time feel free to shoot an email.

A

The link here has a little bit of context for the session and contact email address for me and so feel free to reach out so I think that I've probably spoken long enough and so Tommy's gonna be our first speaker. Let's bring on Tommy. Oh sorry, one format thing so the talks are restricted to last. No more than four minutes when the speaker starts.

A

I start a little timer when the timer quacks were using the Lars Eggert time management rules, which is that when you hear the timer quack I would like everybody in the room to clap. So I'm gonna count on you for help. This is how we stay on schedule. Great, get warmed up very good. Okay, please welcome Tommy Pali, our first speaker Tommy. You got the clicker yep.

A

G

H

Right, your honor all right, hello, everyone, I'm Tommy from Apple and we're going to talk about DNS privacy. It's maybe a controversial topic, but I think it's one, that's very interesting. So this is what DNS traditionally looks like. You have a resolution that you often do to your local resolver. You connect to the name that you get from that some people are concerned that the local resolver may be seeing things and be able to profile you in ways that you don't want. If you don't trust it.

H

So one approach to solve this is say: oh, we trust some other resolver in the cloud a lot more. So let's do that. People have concerns about this too, because how do we know? We trust that, and that also can see everything you do and it's another point that can also be monitoring you.

H

So we have a proposal that we're calling adaptive DNS privacy to try to have more different resolvers in the mix. We want to be able to discover many decentralized, OU servers. We want to be able to designate doe servers for given domains so that you can say what you should be using for a certain set of names. We also want to discover what the local policy is, so that we can do the right things on the local network and then have a good algorithm for how to use all of our DNS queries.

H

So you can get something, looks like this lots of possible options that can coexist and hopefully make sense together that give us privacy without tying us to one option. There is, of course, an interesting question of how do you bootstrap this system, especially if you don't want to just use the local resolver without just trusting someone else. Instead? For this, we have a second document which you may be interested in. It's called oblivious doe. It takes inspiration from the work on oblivious DNS.

H

It allows you to proxy doe queries in order to mask your client IP address, so that no one DNS server knows both your IP address and your query content picture kind of looks like this. You have one more hop in here, but it gives you really good privacy properties, so that creates a whole ecosystem around this, that we can hopefully improve DNS privacy for everyone and have it be very scalable and something that even the local networks can participate in.

H

So if you want to learn more about this or get involved, we're gonna be talking at the ABCD Boff. We're also going to be presenting this work in more detail about how the protocol works at deprive. We have two documents here and we also have a github where we really welcome any issues or pull requests that you want to have get a discussion going. We want to solve this issue for operating systems in general and anything we can do to make this situation better. We are open to so please participate. Thank you. Thank You, Tommy,.

A

So let me just point out that all the slides and contact information are posted on the meeting material site. So if you want to download anything for the contact to show up at the stuff feel free all right so Simon you.

I

The afternoon everyone, my name is Anil I'm from Shanghai University, it's America I to be here to share work with you. Our work is deadline, we're transport protocol. As we all know, the entire Internet is becoming real-time, more and more applications as deadline requirements for their data transmission, such as video conferencing and cloud vr gaming. The deadline of this application can be divided into two categories.

I

The first one is: if the application is push based, then the deadline means the one-way anytime and if the application support based, then the deadline means the rtt and those applications are transferring data in block affection, like the frame in the video conferencing. The block is the minimal, minimal processing units of application, and the deadline is also means the block completion time this these applications are early generating and the transference transferring multiple multiple blocks, concurrently, so different blocks of different importance to the user.

I

Experience like in some scenario of video conferencing, the audio data may be more important than the video data. However, existing transport protocol like support for these transmission requirements, even though such some researchers has proposed the deadline concept or in various protocols like a CDP and some modified a TCP, but they have their problems. The first first one is that they are hard to deploy. Second, they are, they have no optimization for the deadline transmission. They may be just drop some stale data and the third one is that they like support for, pool based transmission.

I

As a result, applications are forced to to their own customized the solutions like specified for video conferencing. These solutions are in cross-layer fashions and these efforts are very complex and redundant. So we need a transport protocol to provide a deliver before deadlines device. Our solution DTP spewed on top of quick and is very easy to deploy. It can rebuild EDP both in transport, layer and HTTP layer and way TTP provides block based the data transmission instead of quick stream.

I

Application can mark their days. How is priority and the deadline parameters you can see in the figure in the figure is our architecture.

I

The EDP will schedule block transmission order based on the deadline, priority and the natural convention, and it will also drop some low priority or still blocks if necessary, and we also apply redundancy for some kill packets, of a block to about the transmission delay. The congestion control is responsible for controlling the RTT below the deadlines and about we can talk about the implementation of DDP later, maybe after just how to habit.

I

I have seen if you are interested- and then you can also refer to our draft here is some part of our evaluation results that we can talk about it later. If you are interested and we are looking for some co-operators to develop application based on the DDP and do some for the job. If you are interested, please catch me during this week or you know me at least advice, and you can learn more about our.

A

Stephen Christian is our next speaker.

J

Ok, so hi everyone, I, am Steven from the university of glasgow and together with mark who's somewhere in the audience we've got. A couple of drafts are looking at formal languages and how they're used in the IETF so broadly.

J

What we want to try and do is to use formal and structured languages to improve the quality of the standards that are produced at the ITF, so want to either generate documents that are written using formal and structured languages, or we want to try and extract structured elements from within the documents themselves, and once we've done that, we can then use to link that can maybe generate parser code for the protocol, that's being specified or approved properties about the protocol, or perhaps just generate the examples that are within the document from the document itself, so that they're consistent within the same document.

J

Now the particular draft that I'm working on is trying to describe machine, readable format for specifying the syntax of protocol data units and for the most part, that looks very much the same as the way we're specifying the format for binary protocols at the moment. So we've got a packet header diagram, followed by a sort of description list of each field. That's in that packet, header diagram and essentially what the drafters trying to do is to bring some consistency to this.

J

So if we all use the same format, then we can develop some tooling that can extract these diagrams from the draft and then we can start to do some interesting things with that. So, first of all, we can do some sort of simple checks, a simple but effective check. So we can check that the diagram matches the description list and quite often it doesn't and perhaps we're interested in whether we can maybe generate some partial code from the definition of the protocol itself.

J

No, the draft that mark is working on is quite different, so he's proposing that you write your internet drafts using asciidoc, which is a markdown variant and the same file as that as your internet draft. You then add a formal description of the protocol written in idris so with dependent and linear types. As I say, this is Mark's draft. So if you have questions about that, you should ask him, but what that then gives you, then, is the ability to generate an XML, RFC v3 file. That has examples that are correct by construction.

J

You have definitions and formal languages like a BNF that have been verified and you get a formal proof of that application of pastels law and much more now, we're aware that there's a lot of other languages, other formal languages that are used in the ITF things like yang or ABN, F or C, D, DL, and so beyond. These sort of narrower projects and drafts that we've got. We want to try and bring about a broader discussion about the use of formal languages in the ITF.

J

To do that, we're going to have an informal side meeting we're going to have that on Thursday night. It is a clock at the winery at James, that's just across the road from the venue you could downstairs into the courtyard. If you're planning to come along, then send us an email and we'll make sure we don't miss anyone and if you're interested in the work, but you can't come along again, send us an email, I'm printers in the hallway and we'd love to discuss it. Thank you.

A

Thank You Steven, why not bug next speakers, Philip Helen Baker folks in the back here? Okay, raise your hand if you're having trouble.

G

Hearing the speaker not me I'm getting real close okay, so people are fine. Alright,.

K

Hello, I'm, Phil ham, Baker and I'm here to talk about the math mesh mathematical mesh off tomorrow, Monday morning, first thing after breakfast, so the objective of the mesh is to make computers easier to use by making them more secure, so use security to make the process easier for the user for a change and the basis for this is that, first of all, we're going to cryptographically connect together every device that alice owns so that her her phone, her tablet or laptop, etc, and all our IOT devices all have a public/private key pair on them and we've got messages that can flow between them to manage all that, and so whenever we want to set up a communication between those devices or with another party, we've got the public and private key there as the basis for to be able to do that.

K

So there are three core problems that we address in the mesh provision. The private keys of the device provide the means to obtain the corresponding public key and to secure data at rest. So, oh so security. Today. What we have to do is we've got a whole bunch of different applications about SSH PGP and all that stuff and they're all silos.

K

They're all law unto themselves and security tends to fall down between the cracks between applications. We need to be able to join all those applications together into one security infrastructure and the mesh is a proposal for that infrastructure. So what we have here is a picture of the mesh in the large and, as you can see, there are a lot of moving parts there.

K

This is a platform and it's architected as such, because you know I'm a systems guy, so the mash mesh itself is that green box in the middle, and that rests on three core technologies- UDF, which is the naming technology PGP fingerprints on steroids Deir, which is a cryptographic message, syntax blockchain in Jason, with encryption and meta cryptography, which is a way of going beyond the crypto in PGP and Bruce Schneier Bluebook yeah. Most of us have been using the same crypto for 25 years.

K

They developed a whole load of stuff in the 90s that we don't use here. I want to start using some of that and I'll be talking about how we can do that in the buff. So there's a lot of stuff here and a lot of applications that could be built on top of it. I've gotten the mesh for the purposes of the buff and starting a working group. We're proposing to focus on just warm and the one I'm proposing that we start off with is providing a end-to-end secure way of managing passwords.

K

So we provide an end-to-end secure, password vault on every machine that the user has, that is their ubiquitously, so they can start using long and strong passwords, because they're going to be available on everything that they're going to use. So we can get away from this problem, and you know you've all seen this.

K

The problem here is the shortest password that is secure is far longer than any user could ever be expected to learn, and you cannot get round that with any algorithm hack or whatever I can go through the math of. Why that's not possible? We've got to get away from passwords and the mesh provides a way to do that.

A

Okay, thank you. So our next speaker is Samuel. Marais did I get that right.

H

A

L

So hello, I'm, sorry from the federal University of fugitive from the lab net and I'm going.

A

A

You see on the nope look at one point.

M

L

I'm going to present my proposal of extinction to the mother of C, so the problem is that the more FC is not efficient against movin are given our abilities. This is not exactly a problem because of mirth because they are. This is not the proposal, but a new vulnerability. King can use a whitelist a traffic by the mud, and this needs a femur or a mud update by the manufacturer in the problem of the point of a point of your security. If that is that, we have only one point of failure, that is the manufacturer.

L

So distant can take a long time to be done by the manufacturer. They may exist. No more or or can just decide, do not fix the bug or solve the problem. So the good part and the good part of the history is that the security of the operation center, every time discover and school affirmation about botnets and all the vulnerabilities, and we can use this information.

L

The behavior of the botnet or or vulnerability to protect ourselves and another important to stick holder in this part is the ISPs that has their amended if being used by DDoS traffic and other unwanted traffic and, in the other part of the stakeholders. The end user won't protect a security, security and privacy, so the proposed extension is chose to use they about vulnerabilities. In this case, we are talking about botnets, and the data about botnet is being collected by honey pots.

L

They see this sock, collect the data and process and make a fire just like the mod file, but describing the in botnet network communication between the botnet network description and making available by AB savage HT HTTP, just like the mud server and in the in the end user can use this data can configure his home gateway to consume this data and the home gateway will match the botnet traffic and IOT devices traffic to address the vulnerabilities to the devices that are exposed and, in the critical case, the blocks or ask to the end users.

L

The administrator of the network, ask for a block or an auto, only alert. So in the in the end, the the blocks are done and the vulnerabilities are blocking. So thank you very much for the attention. If you have any question or interest on the discussion, this is my mouse and I'm here by other week.

A

Thank You Savior, okay, our next speaker is Richard Lee.

N

Thank you, I'm Richard, Lee and thanks to Alan vulcanizing. This event is quite useful, and so people are always smart about the past. Sometimes they are also smart about now, it's very dangerous to say something about the future. It's a big, especially for something as dynamic as unit and as hugely scale as internet, but fortunately, or unfortunately, I'm now, on that Angeles zone now today is released.

N

So before I talk about the future. Let's take a look, a brief look at the kernel image, so Indonesia has been really really successful, but it's called hard. It's based on a few principles, concepts and technologies. Fundamentally, it's based on something called statistically multiplexing. So the major purpose is to maximally utilize.

N

The link on the protocol stack party, it's evolving idea today, that's more or less capture their corners, like a protocol stack except in POS, its message, the being sit somewhere and internet is huge, but it's built by sweet switches and routers from these switches and routers. You can only expect no more than we can three types of capabilities. One is the effort. That's the most popular are mostly used and default. Second tip serve especially for the some like voice, video applications. You can expect no more than a the classes of services. Another one is chocolate.

N

Annealing in current, it's based on chapter stealing Express departs and mean hi. We can also provide some guarantee, but not stupid, and sometimes if your needlework is broken can provide some fast reload. But if we look at history of all the internet protocols, you Caesar the mostly use the particles are pretty old. It's only the more than one generation, for example, like ipv4, is still a like. You stay mostly used states already 20 38 years, even for ipv6, it's only 24 years. So it's all generation.

N

If you have a baby, and now it's already public graduate from university so and many people, especially from academia they are thinking, can we do something inside the network? So that's about the canary so and, as I said earlier, it's really predictable. You know about some saying the future. He'll I mean ITT. There is a Folk School on nano work 2030. They have worked the formal for one year or so they have identified something and this triad.

N

To summarize it, the first one is that very large volume and tiny instant communications, for example, holographic fiber communications, and you may or may not know that right now we are starting to deploy 5g one application is air via a RV is next to radio communication, but what we will be after a aria, so people tend to agree. The holographic type of communications will happen sooner or later, and, for example, we could have spotted something called a holographic teleport so that we require really short latency and after meeting.

N

Please ask me why the latency should be as low as like seven milliseconds and also very large volume. It will be a few hundred. Oh.

A

Okay, thank you Richard. Our next speaker is Liang King.

O

Good evening, everyone I'm leon from china mobile and I'm going to talk about computing first networking today. So I start with some background, so edge computing very, very popular nowadays and emerged by the introduction of 5g cool network which actually intrinsically supports this and I'll start with some facts. In china mobiles, we have more than six hundred rows of CDN and those known can be upgraded to virtual at CDN, which have a common interaction layer and then actually can naturally upgrade it to edge computing nodes.

O

So we're talking about from the city level, to county level and even to the unset level of the infrastructure layer. We are going to see more than maybe tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands knows that used to be only router based infrastructure, but nowadays is going to be integrated, router and then back to back with some IT infrastructure installed. So the network original are designed to optimize connectivities and we treat cloud.

O

The data centers are users of the network users of our connectivity, but nowadays, if we have the district district, the distributed manner of edge computing deployed we're actually talking about changing the role of edge computing or cloud computing to be the from the user of the network becoming a part of the network. So seeing the characteristic of edge, confusing it's actually very limited in terms of resource, and it requires heat or genius require resource distributed, because not all the edge computing nodes can have GPU or other Asics capabilities.

O

But some of application really require that, and we have other requirements like we need to dynamically, distribute the traffic to overcome the the outcome of the limited resource caused by the edge computing node. So the question raised here is: how does the network helped application to find the optimized edge computer note and how does Network help as computing knows to offload the traffic?

O

So that's what siphon is designed for? So it actually designed to be able to distribute computing resource status across the network. So we can use that status to do habit, routing habit, algorithm, considering the computing status and the network status together. So it helps at computing to provide local, insensitive equivalence services and dynamic traffic computing offloading and also seamless switchover between edge nose with flow affinity.

O

So we're going to talk about this more in this meeting and we have a site amazing holes in the morning on Thursday, in room VIP a from starting from 8:30, so welcome to join us and have a discussion, and there are three draft after the uploaded on the website and if you're interested have a look and if you have any further information that you need further information, please don't not be hazarded to cut me. Thank you very much. Thank.

G

A

Next speaker is usually.

P

Hello, Joe I'm, going to talk about single slide only so this this is about loops local optimizations on path segments loops is sorry. The the goal of looms is to provide a local in network recovery over some specific segments to optimize the packet delivery. A very typical user scenario is over the when there might be multiple overlay segments and for certain segments there are higher loss compared to the others, and it des contributes to the overall loss most. In that case, we possibly can provide a so-called local in network recovery by either retransmission or FEC.

P

So we had above in last IDF meeting. There was quite a strong interest showing that the standardization of the work who was required so we are going to meet in in this meeting, to discuss more detailed design issues well include the encapsulations and the detailed retransmission operations, possibly sketch FEC version then clearly outlined the work to be done in loops, so who might be interested of course, the transport protocol designers in this time, because we are going to attach a little bit more on the encapsulation, so Tunnel protocol designers and also the FEC experts.

P

You are all welcome to join us and the time will be on Tuesday morning in the room Orchard. There are three drafts available, so you can have a review if you are interested. So thank you.

G

Thank you. You can next speaking, Sofia Sally Charlie.

Q

Okay, hello, my name is Sofia celli and I'm going to present you about the version 4 of the of the record messaging protocol arm. For this.

Q

Okay, so for this first, one of the questions that we are was actually wanting to talk about is worthy of the record messaging protocol is, and what is this?

Q

Basically, this is the protocol that provides into an encryption for users who are having a conversation between two participants and it was created in 2004 but Makita bodies of young golf and an Eric Brewer, and what it aim is to give three important properties, which was forward security and desiccation and, most importantly, deniability in the sense that what I said that he wanted to provide into an encryption and also to provide security in the case that one of the long-term keys was compromised.

Q

He wanted to provide the security that, if it was compromised and messages when exchanged in the past were actually not compromised if one of the keys was compromised, and it also wanted to provide the property of deniability in the sense that there was no way to create proof of authorship. If someone managed to compromise the conversation, but of course what he as I said, was created in 2004 and since there's a lot of cryptographic, things have happened.

Q

A lot of cryptographic, properties and definition have changed, so that is why we're creating the bastion for of this cryptographic protocol.

Q

As I said, we are doing the passion for of this protocol because we wanted to obtain some of the cryptographic primitives that were previously done in the previous versions of out here, and what we wanted to do is obtain the different properties at the different different definition of deniability, that the protocol had, in the sense that we wanted to update the definition, the durability as right now, there's different versions in the academic part of cryptographic or how to define deniability, and we wanted to also update the different cryptographic primitives that were used, and we also wanted to update the protocol to new network models in which people were actually wanted to have our online and offline way of communicating.

Q

So we wanted to obtain of that. So basically, what out here how it looks like is. Basically you have a two participant communication, as I said in which Alice and Bob want to talk to each other, they would request to have an OT up conversation. That is further a process in which they authenticate each other in a Dinello way, by exchanging the long term keys and also by generating a shared secret and by then the eye shadow actually to exchange the message in we teach each other by using the lover ratchet and using encryption keys.

Q

That will be used per message. Only so no keys will actually be compromised. So basically right now, what's the state of oti in it special voice that we finish the specification in the sense that we finish the cryptographic specification. We are still doing an implementation on C and in :, and some people are actually also doing this implementation with Java and :, and some people are interested in doing of actually doing an implementation once this shop.

Q

What we want to do on what I am presenting right now is that it will be really interesting to have an RFC. There has been some interesting in the past to do an RFC for previous version of all ta v3, but we think that is very important to actually do a passion for of the RFC about here, because this is something that's Korean.

Q

Secure messaging applications I actually based upon like the signal protocol, so actually having an specification of the authorization for in this current form would be actually something very interesting for the secure message in world. If you want to learn more, please check out of repos that you can see here and thank you very much. You can reach me on my Twitter account or the Twitter account or vote here. Thank you.

G

Thank You Sofia. Okay, next speaker is Bob Moskowitz.

A

And Steve card well Bob brings his own staff excellent.

R

Hi I'm Stu he's Bob, so I'm gonna motivate he's going to talk about the work in the host identity protocol to try to get the job done. So fundamental problem is gap between physical space and logical space. I see an unmanned aircraft there I, don't know who it is. I don't have any way to contact the operator. If some emergency situation arises and I need to contact the operator. How can I do that? So in the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration is expected to propose a rule next month.

R

Other civil aviation authorities in other countries are doing the same.

R

There was some work done in ASTM International. Just last week we were there. They released their first version of the standard, it's good as far as it goes, but it does not make the information immediately actionable. It doesn't make it trustworthy. It doesn't allow me to do a one button press and get in contact with the operator and so we're looking at taking various IETF standardized protocols, leveraging them to address this application and I'll leave the details to Bob.

E

What's needed here in extremely constrained environment Bluetooth 4 is a basic minimum. Bluetooth for broadcast messages is the mineral basis for the communication, extremely constrained message, format extremely constrained content. What can we do? We need to provide trust with the identity to pair with physical location data.

E

It turns out that the host identity tags, which are valid IP v6 dresses, can be used over this broadcast medium boot Bluetooth to promote to provide provable ownership by using the host identity for the signatures, give us full mobility and multihoming when we need to communicate directly to the operator. However, we find where that operator is just tell them. Please abort your mission. Now.

E

Timing on this can be very, very critical as drones. These things can move quickly in the airspace or they may be hovering so secure registration protocol is also needed to be able to register the devices on a first-come first owned the ID so that you say I had this ID for this device. It may be long-lived. The hobbyist has an ID long-lived. A delivery company may have the ID for every single delivery mission so that the people cannot observe to say. Oh, this is a UPS craft. This is a of Amazon craft so forth.

E

So we expect both sorts of environments.

E

What we're doing right now we have the US use case draft, which is out that's two authored and for myself, I bought through the hierarchal hits draft as well as extension for the the raishin protocol, as well as getting together the new crypto, we're going to need for this lightweight environment new in terms of what we've used, but it's NIST approved, crypto stuff. It's been out for a little while I'm using a EDSA, kmac c-sharp see shake k AK, while that's waiting for the light crypto competition to finish we're looking at actually signing messages.

E

These broadcast messages because there's no state these are messages coming out on a broadcast. We had a hackathon on yesterday and today we made some progress, Adams doing some great work of coding and expect to see him in the cold lounge to continue working during the week. While he can, we need to progress these drafts. A lot more testing, both here and coming up, stewing and and Adam are located at the the Griffiths Air Force Base, or the old Griffis base, the UAS test site for the FAA or they'll be doing testing there.

E

We need to lay, as on with ASTM, to get what we're doing into there that the we're expecting a Reb of their document, because the fa rulemaking we're hoping. We need to look at how we can get very, very tight objects working on these very constraint requirements using c4 and the rest Bob Susie.

A

Thank you, Bob. Okay, our next speaker is Paul Condon.

A

Yes, but the microphone is on the fists down there. So, but you.

G

Can yeah you can stand up here? If you want.

S

A

S

Paul Condon I've been talking about data center congestion control, the last couple of us and I'm trying to find where's the best place where we can get more interest, more people, more review of our dress and development of them. I showed this picture last time, but I liked it. So much I wanted to show it again: data center, congest ins, different, unique, then the congestion we experienced in the big I internet so there's much difference, delay bandwidth, different switches, architectures, the networks are much more homogeneous.

S

There's a lot of high-speed links with compute and storage, that's very in close proximity and the traffic profiles are a little bit more predictable, a little bit more understood and there's typically fewer people managing these things, maybe even one set of people, so the congesting management can be different in a data center. So you know where? Should we consider these things? If you look at the ICC RG, we could say yep they're, they're Charter does mention data centers as a possible starter. There they're often quite full, with their agenda all the congestion work.

S

That standards track is certainly going on in TS vwg, but perhaps maybe this is some of these topics or research oriented. So perhaps a new research group is worth it. So, let's talk about it. We have some drafts to talk about. We have a side meeting.

S

That's coming up, so a couple of the key questions that we're trying to answer this time around what are needed from NYX themselves to do better congestion control, there's a draft on an open, open congestion, control framework where we can negotiate capabilities in a more open fashion and and try to determine how the network and the NIC can work together. How can the network itself actually participate in congestion management in a different way or a more enhanced way? One thought is about configuring.

S

That parameters are very complicated, so can we use AI in a way to help model that there's a draft on that and, of course, shortcutting the whole control loop could could really reduce some of the reduce some of the delay in getting congestion and pressure on some of our buffers. So there's a fast feedback draft as well. There's some other interesting topics like maybe should we be measuring things differently in the data center as well? So we have a couple of drafts to review. Discuss join us.

S

We have a non working group mailing list, our DMA CC, we you can subscribe to that and we have a side meeting on Tuesday morning and VIP a so look forward to following on with these discussions.

G

Okay, thank you. Paul.

A

Our next speaker, Nicholas Hart, ooh,.

A

Nicholas I'm noticing you 16 sides and four minutes so good.

T

Luck. Sixteen slides in four minutes which button is the forward button.

A

It's the right arrow, that's.

T

N

T

Go real, quick, I won't a very lightweight I'm, an academic closer at length on. They can't hear you can.

A

T

Near-Field start the clock again. My name is Nick Hart I'm from England from Lancaster University I'm, an academic I'm, a researcher I'm, not your PhD student anyway.

T

I'm going to talk about the later people approach me I, just gonna give you some ancient history, the academic view of my topic, which is something that God called RCP route control processing. What I mentioned doing automating BGP programmable internet routing is what I'm calling it in the academic world. We see that nothing really has changed for maybe a decade I feel confident.

T

That's not the case, and the reason I'm here tonight is to invite people to come up and tell me what it is that we on the academic side don't get so this is what we see so in 2004, someone came up with a bright idea that you could invent a a God box that would take control of an entire transit network. You'd flip all of the bgp connections, all the AI, all the internal ibgp mesh onto this box. And, of course, if the box went down your network went down.

T

This was the kind of academic idea of how to make networks better. um Needless to say, this didn't fly this next slides from the same paper and I'm, putting that up, because I'm gonna come back later on and add my overlay to it to make it show how I can hopefully make a network change to where we want it to be without it having to take it apart. First from the same paper that their idea was to stage.

T

Firstly, they take the god box in the middle, but the god box wouldn't talk to the external peers who just talked at internal once, but still brace the mesh. The second idea, which is really the first slide, is that they basically take control of everything.

T

I RS CP same idea a bit better they've got route reflectors in there and this one's interesting, because it's non intrusive, but in fact that doesn't do much more than just optimize IDP paths, which is pretty much what you can do without that art solution when they want to do anything brilliant, then they take over and you'll see the big black lines are just physical links. There data paths, not control inks, so that's the world that the academics still live in, there's been no real change in that there's another slide here. All these people doing.

T

There's people like Jennifer Rexford from Princeton and a whole bunch of people from AT&T wrote this stuff twelve fourteen years ago. So so my take on this is that cannot be the end of it. Why did this not go anywhere and so I kind of tried to encapsulate? Why that didn't work and I think the problem was going back in in those days you couldn't get enough external routing State without without breaking into the ebgp feeds. So the first question is: how can you do that and I think we can solve that today?

T

There's it's no secret. How are we going to do that and then the second question which they didn't really address is if they knew that they could do something better. How would they actually push that into the network without again breaking the mesh? So those are the two two sides of it. The third piece is: how do you know what it is you want to do? But for me that's a different problem.

T

So here's the strategy- and this is so simple, I kind of feel like people- must be doing this, but on the academic side we don't see it so to get that external routing state, you can either look at BMP. The problem BMP is some implementations seem not to be reliable, but some ad path seems pretty much up to the task and most of them the route is out there. If the border routers can do that today and the second solution and I've already heard tonight, people say yeah, we do that.

T

But but we don't know this on academic side is just pick the second best route and push it out there with higher preference, um not difficult I thought about trying to extend BGP, but that's not a bright idea, not unless you remember the ITF, so here's my diagram, so that was the one I put up at the beginning and there's the mesh. My blue path is me pulling into my god box all of the additional path information and the second piece is pushing it back out again by just sending routes with high local preference.

T

All of this sounds really simple and I'm, looking forward to people telling me that actually I'm just behind the times or I'm crazy, and it doesn't work for the following reason, but any of that input would be truly welcome. So I'm new to the IGF I, don't interact.

A

Nic, since this is your first IETF meaning take one moment and tell people how they should, if they want to collaborate with you, how should they reach you.

T

My accent is unique, so you'll spot me on the dance floor. My email address is there I'd love to suggest a bar, a bar meeting, but I don't know where to go so maybe.

A

Somebody will take you to a bar I'll.

T

A

T

Be in the routing group meeting work so hopefully, if there's anyone out, there can tell me more than they will I. Thank you much. Thank you. Our.

A

Next speaker is Mauro I'm, not even gonna. Try your last name or because I'm gonna butcher it so I apologize in advance.

G

Did the microphone.

D

Okay, my name is Mauro coach Elia and come from Italy Takumi Talia.

D

Explicit in band measurement is the topic of this short speech. The first case of a special measurement is the spin beat spin beat, is a RTT measurement. It is implemented on quic protocol. The spin beat idea is to create a square wave signal on the data flow using a beat whose length is equal to L tt, an observer in the middle. Whatever is located that can measure the end-to-end ITT only measuring the line on the square wave.

D

The new idea that we propose is the round-trip packet loss, measured on production traffic between client and server, how it works. The client makes a train of production packets using the packet loss bit and these market packets, bounces between client and server, to complete the two rounds between client and server, client and server reflects market packets by marking production, packets flowing in the opposite direction. A new server comes to the market packets during the two rounds and comparing the numbers can measure the feet de los ISM.

D

The main problem is the different speed between the two direction upload the download. So we use a token system to have the same speed of market packets in the two direction.

D

Okay, how it works the client generate the Train of market packets using the packet was beat. The server reflects these packets. The client reflects the market packs again, and the server again reflects so. We completed two two rounds between client s error. Not all the packets are market. Maybe you can see.

D

This is the opposite case. When the speed is different is more in one direction towards the other direction. Okay, the server the server is put in the middle. He can only count the pockets. The pockets of the first train is compared to the parts of the second train, so the packet loss is statistically measured. Statistica's because is the round-trip is between the server and not between the client and the server. But status is the main things the same things.

D

How to know more, we have an academy, quick measurement and spin damper in cooperation with Erickson. The draft was presented will be presented in a TS w meeting Thursday and tomorrow we will be present in the academia P our with the spin dump demo. The mailing list is possible to use the t, SW g many lists or dial it may as a maraca cheerio fabula europe. If your color and ricardo system tomorrow.

U

C

U

To Tommy's first talk in the beginning, so in the IETF IRT F, we have gotten used to using the term considerations for something well, that is actually what we haven't really thought enough about in the beginning, but actually turned out to be very important, for example like security, human rights, perhaps- and so this is another say topic that I think it's very important so well, the tussle between internally control points and the issue of conciliation and centralization. So after the well in the post, Snowden area, our response to the emulation was okay.

U

We have to rethink our stance on encryption and and privacy and basically made a decision. Okay, that we want to ramp up our so encryption work we've. So we knew before it's terribly important, but so we improve TLS. We are doing things quick, for example, so in also defending this against a lot of criticism, so very important work.

U

On the other hand, we know that in there are other problems that are be concerned, so so surveillance based economies, platforms attract users all across the web, and so at some point it's even the case that the technology that we are producing to, for example, protect the users against on past attacks, where I could actually be used against the users in some circumstances. So, for example, well we can protect the say connection the channel from on pass surveillance, but it doesn't keep platforms.

U

Of course, from you know, collecting profile data trading this and even even trading this was say, instituting that I actually on the pass. So we all are aware of that, and so we have started to react to this, so we are rethinking or in enlarging the the threat model. We are kind of trying to establish some principles so what it means to develop technology for the user. We are rethinking. Is there something wrong with our technology?

U

Perhaps, and so I'm I want to invite you to say a bit broader discussion on this topic, so to look at the the bigger picture.

U

So some of these problems they're not caused by internet technologies per se, so that you have to understand and say how the web works, how the economy works in that space. So we talk. A lot about you know, consolidate Conservation Center is Asian recently, of course you know some some particular topics that create quite some sensation, but I think it's really important that we try to take a step back and try to see the bigger picture. So what role are we playing?

U

What role is our technology stack playing in the bigger system so consider technical and economic factors? So one topic here, for example, is control points in the network. So, of course we don't like the ship. On the other hand, we need some control points so right now, some of other technologies, I used in a ideal way so DNS, for example, is used a lot to implement control so there's something that we can probably improve there. Also when we say for the user. So what does it actually mean so from an application?

U

They provide our developer perspective. We say actually, we cannot trust the infrastructure, the underlying network, the underlying operating system. On the other hand, we could can the user.

A

Has anybody seen an unattended laptop nearby? There appears to be one missing: okay,.

Q

A

Seems to have misplaced his laptop sorry Nick, it's probably around here somewhere. Everybody else has one.

A

Our next bigger is Jake Holland Jake.

A

Jake really Oh laptop sound, excellent but speaker or not. Okay, moving right along, maybe we'll come back to Jake next speaker, David Oliver.

V

Last year, so these are lightning talks but I'm going to TLDR the TLDR for you since I'm.

V

At the very end, we've been working in a in an area called pluggable transports where we're we're trying to provide solutions for people who are subject to pervasive monitoring and surveillance and and censorship, and we've been working on this for quite a while and and for five six years now and and so we're interested in in what's coming and what's going, how active the sensors are and how active our community is and and we're looking at a couple new issues that have that arise. Now that much work has been done and things are constantly changing.

V

So we've at this IEF we've been doing work on usability related issues that how users see these technologies come out and how they try to integrate them in the work that they do and then we're also looking here to the future a little bit on how we use how the devices that we use can help can help in making these technologies these transport technologies these these circumvention technologies, more usable and more efficient.

V

So here's a brief update on the status of some of the pluggable transports that have been developed and used over the last number of years. Some of these have some not mentioned here sort of fallen by the wayside. These are the ones that are still active that provide different sorts of technologies to avoid evade censorship.

V

One of the biggest problems that we now have with so many technologies in the in the field is reaching a network peer that understands the kind of communication you're trying to do, and so how users understand how to interact with bridges. With these communications bridges is a big problem and we're working on user experience solutions for that. How you select and find the right bridge at rendezvous with it, and then, lastly, which form a pluggable transport. You need for the kind of surveillance regime you're in this machine learning stuff is really brand new.

V

It becomes stems out of some work, that's being done by a larger group who monitor how these technologies are used in in the field. We're sort of mobile device experts, so we're interested in how mobile devices can can help us in. In this effort, but also do so in a privacy-preserving way, we've involved in a little hackathons thing today, working on setting up an environment to start doing more research in in in the user.

V

Experience with these things we'll be at that at the hackathon happy hour, hack demo, happy hour here tomorrow night, you can come over and see us. Our work is encapsulated on a nice website called pluggable transports info, and we do have an draft out there. That starts to talk about this stuff anyway. Hit me up if you'd like to get involved with this sort of thing be happy to have people help us out I'll, be here all week, thanks very much I guess, that's it.

A

Thank you, David. You can leave that there we've got another talk, she gains uki.

F

Hi, this is a I'm sure, yes, adzuki from Carrie universe and wide, and also on the be safe network with who is running a some sort of a test. A bit for the blockchain technology and I'm I'd like to briefly update that discussion on the synthetic our finest technology.

A

And could you try this yes.

F

So today you deploys a decentralized that finest technology, if you need to be involved, to create a healthy ecosystem for cetera as finance or, like is a lady, a question, and there are many people need to be involved to discuss how it is implemented and.

F

Interesting thing was happen, decided I was shown in the last IT airside meeting I have allowed to have along side of you. That is doing all the I. Any such group and interesting is that on the g20, it is trends to discuss about this in the ITF. But deep at the g20 meeting, the league leaders agreed that just playing early elected things do not work. They realize that and that they need to communicate with some other stakeholders included tech community to how to implement the decentralized technology. That is a little interesting sec. I think so.

F

The their focus is, of course, the consumer protection and the prevention of the use of the technology for the criminal activity or whatever. So we have, we need to respond to these activities. So last four months since the last I hear ya, we had some land similar workshops, including a DFA workshop at scaling, Bitcoin conference that in Toledo PB, terrible and also I am writing. The I and my colleague attended several panel discussions to describe the the what's going on and what we want to do under calling for the colleagues to work with.

F

So we are planned to have some open meeting in March to too much 2020 on a much nice to tense in Japan Tokyo Japan, so I'm going to provide an update to the people who want to involved so and we are going to have a mailing list, I promised in the last item in the meeting, and we are going to have it and I'm going to let you know and I'm. Please find me and drop me an email if you have an interest on this activity. Thank you very much.

A

Thank you, sugar, okay, one more call for Jake Holland looks like he didn't make the meeting. So that was our last talk thanks. Everybody I hope that you'll consider doing a lightning talk at the next ITF, also I'm, doing an informal social event on Thursday night, Pecha, Kucha and other sort of humorous lightning talks feel free to join the informations going out on the 106 attendees list and I hope everybody can come. Thank you good night enjoy your dinner.

A

Is anybody missing a marble? We have a found marble. Have you lost your marble.

B