►
From YouTube: IETF108-GAIA-20200728-1300
Description
GAIA meeting session at IETF108
2020/07/28 1300
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/proceedings/
A
A
A
So,
let's
start,
I
I
hope
you
can
hear
me
and
well.
This
is
the
this.
Is
the
global
access
to
the
internet
for
all
research
group?
Welcome
to
the
group
today.
We
have
well
now
about
like
45
minutes
for
the
meeting,
so
it's
an
rtf
meeting
that
is
part
of
the
ietf
and
as
such
the
standard
node
well
applies,
and
the
meeting
is
probably
recorded
or
broadcasted
on
youtube.
I
think
well,
this
is
the
standard
information
about
the
noteworld
and
then
the
guardian,
the
gaia.
A
This
is
the
just
the
charter
of
the
gaia
working
group,
just
as
a
reminder
that
we
are
exploring
the
how
the
vision
of
global
access
faces,
the
digital
divide
and
how
this
kind
of
never
ending
problem.
And
this
is
what
we
investigate
and
for
that
gaia,
has
a
set
of
objectives
around
the
visibility
and
interest
on
on
the
challenges
and
and
the
shared
vision,
and
about
promoting
collaboration
between
different
stakeholders,
about
documenting
experiences
and
and
results,
and
and
and
bring
different
perspectives,
and
think
about
how
this
research
can
inform.
A
A
Okay
and
then
well
regarding
the
agenda,
we
have
three
talks
today.
A
The
first
one
is
from
seoul
from
sun
seleni
mankosi
in
south
africa,
it's
a
very
particular
environment
in
a
rural
industry,
south
africa,
a
long
running
experience
called
senseless
networks
and
then,
of
course,
since
environment
is,
is
very
different.
The
challenges
are
also
very
different
and-
and
I
think,
even
more
in
the
in
the
recent
times,
then
there
are
two
talks
related
to
environmental
aspects,
one
from
mennon
on
energy
and
connectivity
that
comes
from
north
macedonia
from
skopje,
a
university
environment.
A
And
finally,
I'm
also
going
to
going
to
present
about
the
general
challenges
of
adapting
the
internet
to
address
the
environmental
challenges,
and
we
will
take
questions
at
the
end
of
each
talk
and
then
at
the
end
of
the
session.
If
we
have
some
time
left,
we
can
discuss
anything
else.
Okay,
so
that's
from
my
introduction.
Let's
say
I
don't
know
if
there's
any
comment
and
then
we
can
go
and
move
to
to
seoul.
A
Yeah
there's
there's
an
icon
on
the
top
left
that
there's
a
microphone
you
can
push
there
and
then
you
will
be
able
to
share
your
audio
and
then,
if
you
want
to
share
your
image
video,
you
can
also
click
on
the
camera.
A
B
Fantastic
great,
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
for
this
opportunity
and
I
would
you
like
to
share
my
presentation,
or
should
I
try
and
do
that
sorry,
I'm
kind
of
finding
my
way.
A
B
B
B
B
B
So
if
I
can
have
the
next
one,
I'm
very
happy
to
go
back
and
take
questions,
but
I
think
I'll
go
quite
quickly.
Can
we
have
the
next
slide?
Yes,
okay,
so
we
are
zanzileni
community
networks
and
in
in
our
context,
we
are
the
first
cooperative
owned
legal
community
network
if
I
could
next
slide
in
south
africa.
B
So
here
I
wanted
to
show
this
is
our
team.
This
and
the
next
slide
shows
the
cooperatives.
The
the
cooperatives
are,
the
companies
that
have
been
seated
in
a
community.
What
we
call
a
community
is
actually
a
tribal
delimitation,
it's
governed
by
a
tribal
authority,
and
there
is
a
very
pertinent
sense
of
sharing
and
of
community
organization
and
and
governance.
B
And
so
we
we
have
businesses,
cooperatives
that
are
internet
service
providers
within
the
limitation.
That's
already
yeah
under
the
tribal
authority,
and
we
have
one
in
the
community
called
mankosi,
which
is
about
12
villages,
and
then
we
go
to
the
next
slide.
We
have
another
one
which
is
in
a
community
called
zitulele,
both
with
similar
sort
of
settings,
and
then
we
also
have
a
not-for-profit
company,
which
you
will
see
I'm
over
there,
and
I
don't
know
if
any
of
you
know
carlos
who's
in
apc.
B
So
if
you
can
yeah
and
then
we
have
a
few
companies
that
have
a
well
the
university
of
the
western
cape
and
a
regulatory
legal
firm
that
has
helped
us
to
actually
have
to
interpret
the
whole
regulatory
framework
to
be
able
to
operate
yeah
where
we
do
so,
we
can
go
next.
B
So
briefly,
just
to
say
this
was
this
came
about
from
a
research
initiative
by
carlos
raymond
and
jessie
or
massively,
and
I
won't
go
into
all
of
it,
but
really
just
to
say,
maybe
in
this
forum
that
there
were
so
many
different
technological
approaches
that
were
tested
throughout
these
eight
years
and
the
way
that
we
have
finally
arrived
where
we
are
is
really
responsive
to
the
commun
to
the
community
needs
and
the
challenges.
B
So
while
we
we
are
always
trying
to
adapt,
get
closer
to
values
that
we
are
technically
more
aligned
with
and
then
having
to
balance
it
with
a
with
economic
reality
having
to
balance
it
with
other
challenges
that
maybe
even
social
challenges
or
even
go
as
far
as
trying
to
support
the
community
to
to
access
devices
and
access
knowledge
of
how
to
use
the
ict
devices
and
how
to
access
the
internet.
So
the
connectivity
is
just
one
element
of
a
whole
set
of
interrelated
issues
that
form
the
digital
divide.
Here
next
slide,
please.
B
So
I'm
going
quite
fast
because
I
want
to
give
an
overview
and
then
leave
space
for
questions.
So
this
is
where
we
are
just
wanted
to
give
a
sense
of
you
know
we're
talking
about
a
an
area
that
historically
was
and
politically
was
systemically
undisserviced
on
you
know:
roads
were
not
developed,
water,
there
isn't
running
water
or
there
are
distribution,
taps
and-
and
you
know,
the
clinics
or
hospitals
are
very
few
and
don't
work
very
well.
The
schools
as
well.
B
So
really,
there
are
very
few
things
that
work
and
within
this
context,
we
eventually
after
trying
everything
we
actually
had
to
build
our
entire
backbone
from
the
city
connecting
to
fiverr
through
different
projects,
including
the
internet,
society
and
apc
and
others.
We
were
able
to
now
create
quite
a
robust
backbone.
B
We
work
on
unlicensed
frequencies
in
2.5
and
5
gigahertz
frequency.
We
have
now
a
capacity
to
burst
to
one
gigabyte
yeah
and
we
can
carry.
You
know
300
megabits,
in
which
we
distribute
amongst
both
both
of
the
communities
and
then
we've
developed
from
that
some
services.
Next
slide.
Please.
B
And
so
how
the
in
the
communities
access
internet
here
is
either
through
hotspots,
and
I
don't
know
what
currencies
most
people
are
familiar
with,
but
in
rams
we
have
vouchers
that
are
uncapped
for
a
month
for
25
rand,
which
I
think
is
about
not
even
two
dollars.
I
think
one
dollar
perhaps
correct
me
if
I'm
wrongly
android
I'll,
look
it
up
and
then
we
also
have
to
balance
the
the
business
sustainability.
We
have
direct
access
points
to
contracts.
B
You
know
to
those
are
local
businesses
or
entrepreneurs,
or
schools
and
and
clinics,
and
really
just
to
say
that
when
we
moved,
I
mean-
I
must
say
this,
this
picture
doesn't
have
the
updated
antennas.
These
are
quite
old
antennas.
We
don't
have
anymore,
but
the
premise
is
the
same
right.
We
have
this
backhaul.
B
B
I
won't
go
into
it,
but
if
you
think
of
all
the
things
that
you
use
on
internet
for
many
might
not
apply
to
the
rule
settings
so
in
ownership
input
building
the
co,
the
actual
network
there's
also
a
demystifying
and
a
coming
closer
to
the
technology
and
leandro.
If
you
can
go
to
the
next
one,
I
don't
know
how
much
time
I
have,
but
I
just
have
three
more
slides
about
our
covet
response.
Do
I
have
time
for
that.
B
Yeah,
so
really
that
just
to
illustrate
so
what
we
had
in
the
covert
you
know
set
up
when
it
first
started,
the
biggest
issues
were
that
you
know
reliable
information
wasn't
accessible,
so
I
put
it
fake
news,
lots
of
it
and
there
were
belief,
systems
and
power
structures
that
were
really
yeah
filtering
news.
That
was
not
very
useful.
B
The
other
thing
was
that
anything
provided
even
by
the
world
health
organization,
even
locally
by
government,
was
really
focused
on
guidelines
for
middle
to
upper
economic
context
in
urban
settings
and
what
we
have
is
no
running
water.
The
transport
to
even
get
to
a
doctor
is
shared
transport
that
sometimes
doesn't
even
arrive.
There's
limited
supplies
of
everything,
and
so
none
of
the
guidelines
were
actually
applicable,
never
mind
that
everything
was
in
english
and
that
people
very
few
people
speak
english.
It's
they
speak
the
local
language.
Is
it
closer?
B
So
we
initiated
two
two
initiatives
on
the
first
one
was
just:
we
used
our
network
to
provide
free
resources,
and
so,
first
of
all,
it
was
to
provide
health
and
and
and
guidelines
in
the
local
language,
but
not
only
that
it
was
also
applied
to
a
specific
context.
So
where
you
would
have
a
typical
sort
of
guideline
saying
you
know,
wash
your
hands
and
use
this
microfiber
sort
of
cloth.
B
We
would
have
it
in
how
do
you
use
it
and
net
the
network
safely,
and
this
is
in
the
context
of
people
sharing,
phones
or
devices
etc,
and
we
went
into
different
areas
that
again
might
seem
so
that
we
can
take
it
for
granted
in
urban
setting
in
this
setting.
B
B
And
then
we've
set
up
this
challenge
now
for
people
which
is
called
our
stories,
our
internet
and
again,
this
is
about
the
the
work
that
is
necessary
to
bridging
the
digital
divide,
which
is
about
people
feeling
like
this
internet
space,
and
this
technical
space
is
also
for
them
and
I
construct
itself.
Everything
is
for
urban
settings,
and
people
in
rural
areas
know
that
most
things
don't
apply
to
them.
B
So
in
this
context,
this
challenge
is
about
people
submitting
audio
or
written
or
visual
content
in
their
own
language,
about
how
they
have
responded
to
covet
19.,
also
piloting
this
as
a
platform
for
marketing
or
sharing
of
local
skills
and
crafts,
and
so
on.
B
It's
also
brought
in
the
youth
which
is
zenzelini,
was
always
considered
the
old
people's
initiative
and
we're
also
bringing
in
you
know,
prizes
in
the
form
of
cash
and
network
vouchers,
so
that
you
know
we
can
also
look
at
the
the
huge
economic
strain
that
people
are
facing
so
yeah.
This
project's
also
supported
with
dfid
and
apc,
and
I
think
leandra
I'll
stop
there.
I
don't
want
to
take
more
time
happy
to
answer
questions.
A
Well
in
the
meanwhile,
while
people
think
about
their
question
is
in
in
this
setting,
you
explain:
there's
always
the
local
part
and
the
the
local
and
global
part.
How?
How
did
you
find
it
useful
or
on
an
obstacle
to
have
global
access
and
and
the
cost
associated
to
it,
or
the
value
of
the
information
that
people
could
find
somewhere
else.
B
So
I
don't
know
if
this
this
answers
your
question,
but
what
we've
seen
up
to
now
is
that
you
know,
even
though
we've
been
going
for
so
long,
even
though
this
is
owned
by
the
community,
we
saw
by
far
a
higher
use
of
the
network
by
the
more
savvy
users
right
and
the
more
savvy
users
are
normally
people
that
come
from
urban
areas.
Now
in
coverage,
what's
been
amazing,
is
that
the
community-based
use
has
gone
from
nine
terabytes
to
19,
terabytes
or
sorry.
B
I
think
it's
from
five
terabytes
to
19.,
and
so
there
is
this
real
sort
of
click
moment
of
oh,
my
gosh,
like
I
connectivity,
does
serve
me
in
my
context,
and
this
has
all
been
through
those
25
round
vowels.
A
Yeah
yeah,
my
general
concern
is
that
the
internet
tools
are
meant
for
everyone
or
for
or
designed
by
some
considering
some
particular
environments.
But
when
it
comes
such
a
situation
such
a
an
environment.
Well,
there
is
the
free
access
to
local
content.
Free
access
to
internet
content
has
a
cost
and
and
how
you
dealt
with
like
those
who
can
pay
or
want
to
pay
those
who
need
access
to
the
information
but
pay
or
not,
and
and
what
is
the
troubles
of
adapting
technology,
access
to
the
internet
and
local
content?
B
And
so
I
I
guess,
adapting
I'm
not
sure
if
your
question
is
more
towards
adapting
the
costs
or
adapting
the
relevance
of
the
network,
or
is
it
both.
A
I
didn't
get
some
of
the
words
in
the
first
part,
but
now
I
was
thinking
about
the
mismatch
between
what
the
internet
or
the
technology
can
offer
and
what
the
community
needed
in
this.
In
this
situation,.
B
Yes,
so
that
that
is
huge,
actually
so,
and
I
I
also
participate
in
some
global
forums
on
different
access
programs
and
so
on,
and
I
don't
know,
for
example,
just
last
year
there
was
a
big,
I
think
in
the
igf,
a
big
you
know
context
on
e-commerce,
and
I
I
go
to
that
extreme,
because
you
know
e-commerce.
B
People
have
such
a
a
they
base
it
on.
The
idea
of
internet
is
for
all
it's
accessible
to
all,
it
should
be
to
serve
all,
and
e-commerce
is,
is
understood
as
something
that
is
more,
I
think,
inclusive,
somehow,
because
anyone
can
play
in
it
and
so
on
and
yet
in
these
cases,
even
if
somebody
had
the
money
to
buy
something
on
e-commerce,
there
is
no
delivery.
B
That
goes
as
far
as
that
I
mean
you
have
to
drive
two
and
a
half
hours
over
roads
that
sometimes
flood,
and
you
can't
access
to
get
to
the
nearest
city,
and
I
don't
know
if
that
illustrates
for
you,
but
that
is
the
daily
experience
of
you
know
what
icts
and
the
internet
promise
and
what
the
reality
is
on
the
ground.
B
Yeah-
and
I
just
maybe
to
answer
the
question
on
the
chat
about
satellite-
and
I
don't
know
if
I
get
it
100-
but
what
we
have
looked
at
satellite
and
it
might
bring
down
the
costs
well,
it
might
bring
down
the
cost
of
having
to
maintain
a
backhaul,
but
the
equipment
costs
are
so
expensive
and
so
difficult
to
get
hold
of
that
they
are,
then
you
know
they
kind
of
don't
close
that
cycle.
B
So
I
don't
know
if
that
answers
the
question
on
the
chat,
but
every
every
assumption
has
to
be
re-looked
at
including
I
remember
once
a
plug-and-play
solution
that
we
could
use,
but
it
needed
a
power
tool
to
put
it
up,
but
we
didn't
have
power,
so
you
can't
use
power
tools
so
sometimes
the
most
effective
solutions
are
in
the
most
mundane
details.
A
Yeah,
perhaps
I
mean
typically
iedf
looks
at
interoperability,
but
also
maybe
we
need
to
look
more
carefully
into
applicability
in
different
scenarios
to
make
sure
that
things
work
as
expected
everywhere.
So
I
think
it's
it's
interesting
because
I
don't
see.
I
didn't
see
that
question
in
the
chat.
So
forgive
me
if
I
miss
any
question
on
the
chat,
because
seems
I
don't
get
everything,
but
if
no
other
question
is
pending,
we
can
move
to
the
next
question.
A
A
C
C
C
I
was
working
with
a
group
of
landro
in
community
networks
last
four
or
five
years,
and
then
I
continued
research
on
community
networks
in
university
of
cambridge
as
a
postdoc
and
then
working
on
the
intersection
between
edge
cloud
blockchain
and
community
networks
right.
So
this
is
my
second
gaia
talk
after
the
itf
101
in
london
and
I'm
really
quite
excited
to
be
part
of
it.
So
the
topic
of
presentation
today
is
energy
and
connectivity.
Honestly,
it's
a
quite
new
topic.
C
A
Yeah,
I
lost
you
for
for
a
moment.
C
Yeah,
okay,
just
yeah,
just
a
bit
of
background
about
the
university
that
I
am
so
southeast
european
university
is
a
private
public
not
for
not
for
profit
higher
education
in
north
macedonia.
Mainly
it's
a
quite
new
university.
It's
like
20
years
university,
and
it
was
sponsored
mainly
by
the
organization
for
security
and
cooperation
in
europe.
Eu
commission
and
use
us
id
so
mainly
what
it
makes
special
this
university.
It
has
around
6
000
students,
and
it
has
a
very
nice
campus
green
campus.
C
So
so
cu
was
one
of
the
universities
that
started
this
project
and
here
in
the
pictures
you
can
see
some
of
the
photos
of
the
green
campus
and
and
and
this
initiative.
So
I'm
gonna
like
shortly
explain
about
what
we
are
doing
inside
and
what
are
our
targets
you
can
go
to
the
next
slide.
Then.
C
Oops
third
slide,
so
the
climate
action
plan
was
kind
of
like
a
project
which
started
in
2010
and
starting
from
2010
up
to
2020
in
each
phase
of
the
project.
New
things
were
added
in
order
and
and
and
introducing
high
energy
efficiency
measure
and
renewable
energy
technologies.
C
So,
basically,
through
this
project,
we
wanted
to
see
the
current
energy
consumption
and
greenhouse
gases
or
gag
emissions
in
order.
We
wanted
to
analyze
this
in
order
to
implement
the
carbon
friendly
measures
for
university
campus
and
then
see
if
this
can
can
can
scale
to
the
cities
and
the
and
bigger
bigger
environments.
C
So,
basically,
we
just
designed
some
protocols
to
get
this
g8g
emission
values,
and
that
was
like
the
protocol
just
included
some
kind
of
scopes.
C
In
the
first
scope,
we
were
just
putting
the
direct
gig
emissions,
and
these
were
the
emissions
occurring
from
sources
that
are
completely
owned
by
or
controlled
by
the
university
here,
where
the
the
measures
taken
by
the
by
the
let's
say,
include
included
the
measures
included
like
values
coming
from
the
boilers
from
the
vehicles
in
the
university
campus
and
other
things,
and
then
in
the
second
category
we
tried
to
put
like
indirect
gag
emissions
and
indirect
emissions
was
kind
of.
Basically,
emissions
purchased
mainly
was
the
electricity
which
was
purchased
from
outside
right.
C
You
can
see
that
for
the
last
five
years
this
is
increasing,
and
now
we
have
something
like
five
point
in
2010
in
2010
we
had
like
5.2
tons
of
carbon
dioxide
equivalent
right,
and
this
was
the
measure
that
that
was
that
was
measured
in
that
time
and
this
for
that
time
was
alarming
and,
and
we
needed
kind
of
the
university
to
do
something.
In
order
to
try
to
to
reduce
this.
This
thing
we
can
go
to
the
next
one.
C
So
basically,
the
climate
action
plan
came
into
into
the
university
and
this
was
started
in
each
phase
from
2010.
The
things
were
added,
and
here,
for
instance,
you
can
see
the
big
giant
giant,
solar
panels
or
photovoltaics
added
at
the
university.
For
instance,
in
the
first
picture
you
see
2
000
meters
square
solar
panels
edit
and
they
are
serving
at
the
same
time
as
the
car
shelters
for
the
for
the
cars
at
the
university.
C
Each
building
in
the
university
added
like
a
solar
panel,
which
was
like
a
link
to
the
to
the
building
or
the
department,
and
in
this
way
the
university
became
in
terms
of
the
became
a
source
for
generating
green
energy
right
so
and
and
and
this
was
just
about
the
energy
right
that
we
wanted
to
produce,
because
the
energy
was
one
of
the
biggest
factors
that
was
increasing
the
carbon
footprint
so
and-
and
I
I
just
got
like
yesterday-
some
values-
and
I
I
from
the
university
and
and
based
on
these
things,
this
installation
that
we
have
at
the
university
something
about
the
cu
campus-
is
able
to
cover
28
of
the
current
electricity
through
these
solar
panels.
C
C
For
instance,
since
since
energy
purchase
was
one
of
the
main
factors
for
carbon
pic
for
cardboard
footprint,
we
wanted
to
see
it
was
not
enough
for
the
sustainable
energy
to
reduce
the
carbon
footprint.
C
So
the
the
other
thing
that
we
wanted
to
do
is
like
okay,
make
the
the
building
sustainable
and
this
we
just
built
it
like
pilot
buildings
at
the
university
and
each
building,
each
department
that
we
have
now
it's
like
sustainable
energy
and
one
of
the
pictures
that
you
see
on
the
right,
the
green
one
is
it's
where
the
office,
where
I'm
sitting
and
it's
totally
sustainable
energy
building.
So
this
includes,
like
a
geothermal
heat,
pump,
a
heating
and
cooling
system
which
allows
replacing
the
conventional,
let's
say,
centralized
heating
system
on
top
of
the
building.
C
There
are
solar
panels.
These
solar
panels
are
heating
and
producing
energy,
and
this
energy
is
heating,
the
water
that
comes
to
the
buildings,
and
then
you
have
the
ventilation
system,
and
then
you
have
like
solar
shading
structures
totally
like
sustainable.
C
C
So
can
we
go
to
the
next
slide
so
and
this
this
more
or
less
shows
what
is
the
if
we
compare
like
how
was
the
the
the
giga
mission
in
2009
and
and
we
we
do
a
forecast
in
2020,
we
see
that
we
we
almost
for
this
10
years
period.
We
we
reduced
the
emission
for
35
percent,
which
is
in
line
with
the
1.5
directive,
paris
agreement,
if
I'm
not
wrong,
like
35
to
50
reducing
the
the
emission
right.
C
C
C
So
we
applied
to
the
to
the
to
the
ministry
of
informatics
here
in
macedonia,
I
was
saying
that
we
want
to
build.
We
have
this
sustainable
energy,
which
is
reproduced
at
the
campus.
It's
already
there
and
it's
producing,
like
lots
of
each
building
is
producing
its
own
energy
from
the
solar
panels
and
the
other
sources
like.
Can
we
build
kind
of
like
I
want
to
to
to
to
see
the
effect
of
building
a
community
networks
connectivity
using
this
green
energy
sources?
So
what
we?
C
What
we
actually
is
doing
doing
is
like
we
taking
into
account
the
the
gift
net
network,
which
is
in
catalonia,
in
spain
and
and
and
and
I've
been
working
during
my
phd
in
the
qmp
network,
which
is
like
a
subset
of
gif
in
the
in
the
city
of
barcelona.
C
So
by
connecting
them
to
this
renewable
energy
sources,
we
have
a
connectivity
which
is
like
totally.
This
is
coming
from
the
green,
green
energy.
So
can
you
go
to
the
next
slide?
C
So
in
a
way
we
have
a
test
bet
at
the
university
for
the
moment,
which
we
would
like
to
test,
how
the
connectivity
can
be
improved
or
or
is
it
functional?
Is
it
is
it?
Is
it
sustainable
the
connectivity
by
using
the
green
energy
source,
and
here,
for
instance,
it's
a
bit
like
abstract
picture,
but
the
green
dots
are
the
travel
station
that
the
the
the
energy
comes
and
then
and
and
we
have
this
smart
metering
systems
and
in
each
smart
meters.
C
We
put
this
nanostation
point
to
point
links
in
a
way
we
are
building
a
wireless
mesh
network
and
we
see-
and
we
want
to
see
like
how
how
this
this
this
will
will
we
will
work
together.
This
is
quite
a
new
challenging
very
practical
project,
which
was
just
like
two
two
or
three
months
ago
started.
We
are
in
the
process
of
installing
this,
these
devices
in
the
in
the
close
to
the
green
energy
sources
and
see
what
what
we
we
can
do.
C
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
any
any
quick
question
about
what
we
saw,
which,
by
the
way,
it's
nice,
because
it
complies
with
the
this
itu
or
the
ipcc
expectations
for
for
the
1.5
degrees
scenario,
which
shows
how
much
effort
is
needed.
A
A
Okay,
well,
if
there
is
no
other
question,
I
think
we
can
move
to
the
last
presentation
and
then
in
the
last
moments
we
can
comment
questions
for
for
any
other
presentation.
Thank
you
very
much
very
much.
A
So,
in
fact,
my
presentation
is
related
to
the
to
this
previous
one.
It's.
This
is
a
specific
example,
and
mine
is
a
general
reflection
about.
A
The
general
issue
of
environmental
sustainability,
so,
but
you
know
me,
and
and
this
is
a
discussion
about
the
situation
we
are
facing-
not
the
coveted
one
but
the
environmental
challenge
one,
and
when
we
talk
about
gaia
in
connectivity
for
everyone,
we
have
the
issue
that
it's.
It
means
a
lot
of
machines.
It
means
a
lot
of
devices.
A
It
also
means
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
connections.
Sensors
people
have
more
than
one
device,
there's
the
energy
as
we
saw
and
then
well.
You
can
agree
or
not
that
the
climate
change
is
a
challenge
or
how
big
is
a
challenge,
but
there
is
one
and
the
typical
metric
people
use
to
talk
about.
It
is
greenhouse
gas
emissions
at
the
equivalent
of
co2,
but
it's
just
a
measure
to
to
reflect
what
we
have.
A
This
figure
comes
from
a
recent
itu
recommendation:
l
1470
that
talks
about
that
in
a
in
a
decade
more
or
less
by
2030.
We
have
to
reduce
about
the
environmental
of
impact
of
ict
to
about
half,
let's
say,
despite
the
development
of
ict,
it's
growing.
We
need
to
to
divide
by
two
if
we
want
to
comply
or
contribute
to
the
1.5
degrees
scenario
from
ipcc.
A
A
The
electricity
and
electricity
seems
to
be
a
an
ingredient
that
ict
technology
is
going
to
use
more
and
more,
even
though
it's
becoming
more
efficient,
just
a
couple
of
numbers,
I
mean,
if
you
look
at
the
bill
of
materials
for
for
a
device,
and
you
can
see
that
production
and
raw
material
acquisition
is
most
of
it,
for
a
smartphone
or
in
the
case
of
these
greenhouse
emissions
from
a
smartphone
under
slightly
different
conditions
on
the
other
study
shows
that
well
among
these
90
units,
50
are
related
to
the
manufacturing
of
the
device.
A
So
just
quickly,
I
would
say
we
need
to
think,
or
it
would
be
interesting
to
think
about
what
would
be
the
scenario
by
2030
or
what
2040
and
then
we
could
discuss
how
to
achieve
that
scenario,
and
then
that
requires-
or
that
might
require
probably
changes
in
in
different
aspects
like
in
the
architecture
like
more
caching,
more
locality
in
the
protocols,
maybe
to
reduce
the
overhead
to
slow
down
some
protocols
to
to
make
messages,
less
verbose
and
compress
them,
perhaps
to
tweak
parameters
like
timers
and
things.
A
If
I
just
checked
on
energy
regarding
rfcs
and
and
well,
there
are
some
examples
of
of
rfcs
that
discuss
about
how
to
improve
optimize
energy
in
some
of
them.
Can
we
perhaps
generalize
and
provide
some
general
guidelines
if
useful?
A
There
are
even
more
radical
approaches
like
going
to
local
cloud
edge
for
computing,
think
about
devices
which
are
not
owned
by
people
but
which
are
which
are
simply
used
and
likely
all
people
might
remember,
exterminals
and
or
things
like,
for
instance,
mentoring,
accounting
reporting,
the
environmental
impact
of
using
a
device,
maybe
having
kind
of
environmental
budgets,
reuse,
ensuring
traceability
and
accountability
of
devices
from
along
the
circular
life
of
a
device
from
manufacturing
to
recycling,
putting
limits
doing
a
kind
of
just
crazy
ideas,
environmental
congestion
control
rate
limits
on
on
on
protocols,
for
environmental
reasons
and
and
well,
I
think
the
discussion
it's
important
for
gaia,
because
it's
we
we
typically
discuss
for
all
and
for
everything
but
well
it
shouldn't
be
at
any
environmental
cost
and
then
think
about
the
how
the
internet
can
contribute
to
sustainability
in
positive
and
negative
terms.
A
I
think
we
have
to
be
aware
that
already
we
surpassed
the
environmental
limits
of
the
of
the
of
the
world
already
quite
long,
and
and
we
need
to
think
in
in
terms
of
scarcity,
so
my
question
will
be:
do
you
have
ideas
about
how
to
turn
all
these
work
discussions
into
something
that
is
useful
for
society
and
particularly
for
standardization
efforts?
That
would
be
great.
If
you
have
any
idea-
and
that's
that's
my
presentation.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
floor.
I
just
wanted
to
impress
on
what
menon
had
said
and
you
leandro
is
that
a
we've
really
struggled
to
find,
in
some
cases
the
right
kind
of
balance
between
equipment
that
would
work
with
renewable
energy.
For
example,
more
potent
net
metal,
repeaters
and
hot
spots
would
actually
not
work
with
in
unless
you
sort
of
oversize
the
solar
and
battery
power,
and
that
that
is
a
recurring
issue
for
us,
so
yeah.
B
I
just
wanted
to
just
say:
I'm
really
glad
that
you're
bringing
up
power
is
one
of
the
issues
and
that's
the
case
also
not
only
for
the
network
but
for
the
devices
and
if
we're
looking
at,
you
know
stats
that
this
is
not
the
minim.
You
know
not
a
minority
that
in
africa,
sixty
percent
of
people
live
in
in
similar
scenarios
that
I've
put
across
you
know,
power
just
becomes
such
a
central
issue,
so
I
just
wanted
to
highlight
that.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
yeah
yeah,
I
mean
we.
This
is
something
that
we
forget
or
that
we
forget
in
the
developed
world,
and
sometimes
we
drive
a
secondhand
car
or
not
have
no
car
at
all,
but
we
we
have
always
buy
new
devices
and
because
they
get
obsolete
very
soon.
So
that's
that's
a
luxury
we
cannot
afford.
Perhaps
and
then,
when
we
talk
about
the
internet
for
all,
it
should
be
a
brand
new
internet,
all
the
time
with
spending
materials
and
energy
without
limit
okay.
A
So
if
you
have
any
question,
if
not
we,
we
can
continue
in
the
mailing
list
so
think
about
it,
and-
and
let
us
know
if
you
have
an
idea
about
to
include
the
environment
agenda
into
the
internet
for
all
to
contribute
and
not
to
be
an
obstacle,
because,
as
we
saw,
the
the
challenge
is
hard,
it's
complying
with
the
scenarios
is
very
difficult.
How
to
do
it
is,
is
really
really
a
challenge.
A
But
let
me
say
in
the
meanwhile
that
there
is
a
very
interesting
session
just
after
this
one
on
hrpc,
so
we
recommend
you
to
go
because
it
also
talks
about.
I
mean
rights,
not
environmental
rights
at
the
moment,
but
but
human
rights
in
in
protocols
so
also
very
interesting
and
related
discussion.
Okay,.